ST-2009: Second viewing
Phillip Thorne
including the Freaky Giant Eyes nurse on _Kelvin_ Medical Shuttle 37,
an elongated-skull officer on the E bridge, and another in the
Starfleet auditorium at Kirk's promotion ceremony.
Vulcan to Earth seems to take only minutes, but Earth to Vulcan
apparently takes *hours*, given the time Kirk and Spock Prime spend on
Delta Vega. (At the least, it's a 14-km hike in arctic conditions.)
Did Nero loiter? Was the _Narada_ very very slow? Did the drill take
hours to work? Are FTL routes asymmetrical?
Vulcan is destroyed; on film the E moves away at impulse; and it's
*still* at sublight when Spock exiles Kirk -- you can see normal space
outside the bridge viewport as they're arguing. So that's consistent
with (a) Delta Vega being in the same system as Vulcan, and (b) Spock
didn't interrupt a trip to violate "Starfleet regulations regarding
the treatment of prisoners."
The lifepod computer identifies the place as "Delta Vega, an M-class
planet." If the Starfleet outpost is only 14 km away, couldn't it
have arranged its landing trajectory a little better?
Warp factors: When the E goes *to* Vulcan, Pike orders "maximum warp."
Later, Acting Captain Spock orders "warp three" to the Laurentian
System. When planning to sneak up on Nero, Chekov specifies "if Mr.
Scott can get us to warp four." This is slow even by ENT standards.
(Is "Admiral Archer's beagle" a reference to that show and the
existence of the warp five NX-01, or some other Archer?) Had they not
optimized the E's engines? But it was expected to keep up with the
other six ships in the task force.
On Earth, why was the _Narada_ drilling into San Francisco's *bay*?
Surely having an ocean spilling into the borehole would cause problems
for the Red Matter delivery projectile.
When Nero attacks Vulcan, Chekov identifies "the formation of a
singularity," and Spock calls it "a black hole." When Spock Prime is
explaining his mission 129 years hence, he says "a star exploded"
(which could mean a lot of things) and then "supernova" (dang), and
then "black hole" re: application of the Red Matter and the
inadvertent trip of the two vessels.
Vulcan's asymmetrical collapse and the depth of the borehole: Nero's
XO reports that "we've reached the planet's core." But that's not the
same as "center." On Earth, the outer core is 3,000 km from the
surface (halfway to the center). Maybe Vulcan's is larger.
--
** Phillip Thorne ** peth...@comcast.net **************
* RPI CompSci 1998 *
** underbase.livejournal.com ***************************
Jeffrey Harlan
> Vulcan to Earth seems to take only minutes, but Earth to Vulcan
> apparently takes *hours*, given the time Kirk and Spock Prime spend on
> Delta Vega. (At the least, it's a 14-km hike in arctic conditions.)
> Did Nero loiter? Was the _Narada_ very very slow? Did the drill take
> hours to work? Are FTL routes asymmetrical?
>
> Warp factors: When the E goes *to* Vulcan, Pike orders "maximum warp."
> Later, Acting Captain Spock orders "warp three" to the Laurentian
> System. When planning to sneak up on Nero, Chekov specifies "if Mr.
> Scott can get us to warp four." This is slow even by ENT standards.
> (Is "Admiral Archer's beagle" a reference to that show and the
> existence of the warp five NX-01, or some other Archer?) Had they not
> optimized the E's engines? But it was expected to keep up with the
> other six ships in the task force.
>
Or maybe it's just because of the fact that the nacelles collided with
a destroyed saucer. Probably did some hefty damage, requiring hasty
(and likely incomplete) repairs, hence the slower speeds. The repairs
would also give enough time for the hike so when Spock took the ship
off toward the Laurentian System to rendezvous with the rest of the
fleet, they'd barely gotten underway when Kirk and Scotty beamed
aboard. And Nero didn't go straight to Earth, either, because he spent
a fair amount of time on "enhanced interrogation" of Pike to get the
security codes to disable Earth's defenses, resorting only to the Ceti
Eel--er, Centaurian Slugs, when all other methods had failed. And the
drill apparently did take quite a bit of time to work, too, because
the Enterprise's transit to Vulcan wasn't as instantaneous as you seem
to think. Half the crew changed uniforms, including Kirk, who also
spent some time under sedation as well (enough time for McCoy to
change uniforms as well). I'm thinking at least a half hour for the
Earth-to-Vulcan trip to account for this.
> On Earth, why was the _Narada_ drilling into San Francisco's *bay*?
> Surely having an ocean spilling into the borehole would cause problems
> for the Red Matter delivery projectile.
>
Yeah, but it looked cool. Which was the whole point. Besides, a beam
energetic enough to vaporize solid rock would make short work of water.
Phillip Thorne
>> Vulcan to Earth seems to take only minutes, but Earth to Vulcan
>> apparently takes *hours*, given the time Kirk and Spock Prime spend on
On Tue, 2 Jun 2009, Jeffrey Harlan <jef...@jeffreysworld.net>
responded:
>Or maybe it's just because of the fact that the nacelles collided with
>a destroyed saucer. Probably did some hefty damage,
Apparently in the Abrams-verse, shields can't deflect solid objects.
And even if they try, there's no sparkle, like we've had with
forcefields since TNG first used them on prison cells.
>requiring hasty (and likely incomplete) repairs, hence the slower speeds.
This sounds like another loss to the "cutting room floor" (what's the
digital editing equivalent? The Avid trash folder?) of explanatory
dialogue.
>The repairs [...] so when Spock took the ship
>off toward the Laurentian System [...] they'd barely gotten underway
>when Kirk and Scotty beamed aboard.
Aha. The bigger problem there is not, I should think, the range of
Scotty's transwarp-programmed transporter, but of the sensors on his
grounded shuttle.
>And Nero didn't go straight to Earth, either, because he spent
>a fair amount of time on "enhanced interrogation" of Pike [...]
Aha. That would make sense. Nero had preparations, and no need to
rush to evade defenders. Defenders would be dealt with summarily.
Now, Earth's defenses *having* codes that can be disabled by one man,
*that* doesn't make sense. There's an article out there which
examines the movie as a series of IT security lessons.
>And the drill apparently did take quite a bit of time to work, too,
>[...] Half the crew changed uniforms, including Kirk, who also
>spent some time under sedation as well [...] I'm thinking at least
>a half hour for the Earth-to-Vulcan trip to account for this.
Darn you, fast-paced movie editing that compresses time!
Abrams probably felt that too many "Earth, 22 years later" and "13
minutes out from Earth" captions would be distracting.
>> On Earth, why was the _Narada_ drilling into San Francisco's *bay*?
>> Surely having an ocean spilling into the borehole would cause problems
>> for the Red Matter delivery projectile.
>
>Yeah, but it looked cool. Which was the whole point. Besides, a beam
>energetic enough to vaporize solid rock would make short work of water.
It's not the beam while operating. *After* it shuts down, Nero needs
to drop the bomb containing the Red Matter.
Greg Goss
>On May 30, 7:46�pm, Phillip Thorne <petho...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Vulcan to Earth seems to take only minutes, but Earth to Vulcan
>>> apparently takes *hours*, given the time Kirk and Spock Prime spend on
>>> Delta Vega. �[Warp 3, Warp 4]
>
>On Tue, 2 Jun 2009, Jeffrey Harlan <jef...@jeffreysworld.net>
>responded:
>>Or maybe it's just because of the fact that the nacelles collided with
>>a destroyed saucer. Probably did some hefty damage,
>
>Apparently in the Abrams-verse, shields can't deflect solid objects.
>And even if they try, there's no sparkle, like we've had with
>forcefields since TNG first used them on prison cells.
Not just Abrams. I finally got around to watching Nemesis over the he
weekend, and commented to the wife that "The shilds are good to
deflect phased energy beams and chunks of antimatter, but can't stop a
piece of wing? Getting struck by a piece of the Scimitar's wing was
foreshadowing for the Ramming that happened later. Apparently in a
world of energy weapons, you don't expect matter projectiles.
I think that in the original show, there was a forward facing dish
that was supposed to deflect matter that they were about to run into,
but I don't remember if it ever featured in an actual show.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Space Cowboy
news:78ovk5F...@mid.individual.net:
>
> I think that in the original show, there was a forward facing dish
> that was supposed to deflect matter that they were about to run
> into, but I don't remember if it ever featured in an actual show.
>
Depending on who's drawing it was, the three round illuminated parts
on the TOS primary hull bow were the main deflectors. In others it was
the two concentric rings on the secondary hull dish, which was
primarily a downrange sensor dish, STTMP and on it became a dual
purpose fixture. Even CBS Digital redux of Paradise Syndrome left it
ambiguous as we don't see where the heavy deflector beam originates.
{I guess they didn't want to upset the various sketch artists}
--
Origin: "Battle Beyond The Stars"[1980,George Peppard,actor.Roger
Corman,producer,low budget but fun to watch]
Must See: "The Magnificent Seven" & "The Seven Samurai"
Starfleet in both Prime(TOS) & Abrams`verses & Browncoat in another
`verse!
Jack Bohn
>I think that in the original show, there was a forward facing dish
>that was supposed to deflect matter that they were about to run into,
>but I don't remember if it ever featured in an actual show.
In "Mudd's Women" they extended their protection against
asteroids to Leo Walsh's ship. This was early in the show, and
there was (and possibly continues to be) confusion over the
function of "screens" and "shields."
--
-Jack
Phillip Thorne
>>Apparently in the Abrams-verse, shields can't deflect solid objects.
>>And even if they try, there's no sparkle, like we've had with
>>forcefields since TNG first used them on prison cells.
On Wed, 03 Jun 2009, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> provided
substantiating evidence:
>Not just Abrams. I finally got around to watching Nemesis over the he
>weekend, and commented to the wife that "The shilds are good to
>deflect phased energy beams and chunks of antimatter, but can't stop a
>piece of wing?"
Hmm, good point; I'd forgotten that, having seen the movie only once.
The makers had apparently forgotten "Datalore" or "Silicon Avatar" --
in one of those, the Crystalline Entity pressed up against the Ent-D's
shield bubble, which fluoresced. (Shields have been absorbing and
re-radiating ever since Doc Smith.)
And in the ep where Ro goes undercover with the Maquis -- then defects
for real -- she flew a shuttle into position between the Ent-D's
nacelles. Geordi actually let her, but the implication was that you
need to adjust harmonics or something to penetrate the bubble.
These are evidence that shipboard shields act like small-scale
shipboard containment fields (since there's no /a priori/ reason
they'd have to). The Ent-E's shields could operate differently, but
that seems unlikely.
I need to rewatch the movies sometime -- I've already worked through
the novelizations (2-4, 6-7) that I have at hand.
der...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> *Date:* Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:07:24 -0600
The film is wholly consistent with TV Trek (all series) there. Actual
collisions between starships have always been pretty hard on the ships
concerned.
It seems that a starship moving at impulse has so much kinetic energy that
it can easily overcome shields. Suicide starships would be a very
effective, albeit very expensive weapon.
The deflector dish can only cope with small masses. Larger masses are
simply dodged by the starship as they can be detected from far enough away.
mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu
> Phillip Thorne <petho...@comcast.net> surmised:
>
> >>Apparently in the Abrams-verse, shields can't deflect solid objects.
> >>And even if they try, there's no sparkle, like we've had with
> >>forcefields since TNG first used them on prison cells.
>
> On Wed, 03 Jun 2009, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> provided
> substantiating evidence:
>
> >Not just Abrams. I finally got around to watching Nemesis over the he
> >weekend, and commented to the wife that "The shilds are good to
> >deflect phased energy beams and chunks of antimatter, but can't stop a
> >piece of wing?"
>
> Hmm, good point; I'd forgotten that, having seen the movie only once.
> The makers had apparently forgotten "Datalore" or "Silicon Avatar" --
> in one of those, the Crystalline Entity pressed up against the Ent-D's
> shield bubble, which fluoresced. (Shields have been absorbing and
> re-radiating ever since Doc Smith.)
You're both wrong. In Nemesis, the E-E's shields were able to deflect
the warbird's debris. You even see the shield glow as the chunk
impacts it on the top of the bussard ramscoop. In ST 2009, the
Enterprise-Alt hits a chunk of debris within seconds of them exiting
warp, and someone calls out in the background that the shields are
still holding. When the ship hits that second piece of debris, they
seem to have failed in the that region.
> And in the ep where Ro goes undercover with the Maquis -- then defects
> for real -- she flew a shuttle into position between the Ent-D's
> nacelles. Geordi actually let her, but the implication was that you
> need to adjust harmonics or something to penetrate the bubble.
You're misremembering the episode. Here's the dialog from "Preemptive
Strike":
Captain's log, stardate 47941.7. The Enterprise is en route to a
briefing on the situation in the Demilitarised Zone along the
Cardassian border. Meanwhile, we're celebrating the return of an old
friend.
[Ten Forward]
LAFORGE: Ro!
CRUSHER: Welcome home.
RO: Thanks. It's good to be back.
TROI: Congratulations on your promotion, Lieutenant.
RO: Same to you, Commander.
TROI: Thank you.
LAFORGE: Say, I understand that Advanced Tactical Training is a real
picnic.
RO: Right.
CRUSHER: Did you see the buffet?
TROI: This is real Bajoran foraiga.
LAFORGE: It wasn't easy to find.
RO: You shouldn't have gone to all this trouble. Really.
CRUSHER: We wanted you to know how glad we are to have you back.
(Picard leaves in the background)
TROI: So, where are your new quarters?
RO: Deck four, section eight.
CRUSHER: What are do you planning to do
PICARD [OC]: Lieutenant Ro.
RO: Go ahead, sir.
PICARD [OC]: Please report to the Bridge.
RO: Yes, sir. Excuse me.
[Corridor]
RO: Captain.
PICARD: You seemed a bit overwhelmed by all the attention.
RO: Well, to tell you the truth, I really want to see everyone. I'd
just rather do it one at a time.
PICARD: You look very fit, Lieutenant. Tactical Training seems to
agree with you.
RO: You know me, I enjoy a challenge.
PICARD: That school is more than a challenge. Half the class washes
out every year. But somehow I didn't think you'd be one of those.
RO: Captain, I want you to know that I really appreciate your
recommending me. If it weren't for you, my life would be a very
different one right now.
RIKER [OC]: Bridge to Picard.
PICARD: Go ahead.
[Bridge]
RIKER: We're receiving a distress signal from a Cardassian ship near
the Demilitarised Zone.
[Corridor]
PICARD: Change course to intercept. I'm on my way. I'd like you at the
conn, Lieutenant.
[Bridge]
PICARD: Ensign Gates.
(Gates gives up her seat for Ro)
PICARD: Report.
RIKER: The Cardassian ship relayed a distress signal but it was cut
off before we could find out what was wrong.
RO: I have the ship on long range sensors. It appears to be under
attack by several small ships.
PICARD: Can you identify them?
RO: No, sir. They're not transmitting identification codes.
DATA: I will scan their warp signatures. Sir, sensors indicate the
attacking vessels are Federation ships.
(after the opening credits)
RO: We're coming into visual range.
PICARD: On screen.
RIKER: Those are Federation ships.
PICARD: Isolate one and magnify. The Maquis. Open a channel.
WORF: Open.
PICARD: To all Maquis ships. Call off your attack or we will be forced
to engage you.
WORF: No response.
PICARD: You are Federation citizens. Your actions are in violation of
our treaty with the Cardassians. Call off your attack.
DATA: They are not responding, sir.
PICARD: Mister Worf, are we in firing range?
WORF: Not yet, sir.
PICARD: Arm phasers and photon torpedoes and stand by.
RIKER: I never thought we'd be firing on our own people to protect a
Cardassian ship.
DATA: The Maquis ships are regrouping, sir. They are closing in on the
Cardassian vessel.
WORF: The Cardassian's shields are down to thirty percent.
RIKER: They may not be able to withstand another hit.
WORF: Sir, we are within weapons range.
PICARD: Mister Worf, can you detonate a torpedo spread between the
Maquis ships and the Cardassians?
WORF: Yes, sir.
PICARD: Do it.
(four bolts of light whoosh off)
WORF: The Maquis are breaking formation. They are withdrawing.
PICARD: Signal the Cardassians that we're standing by to assist them
if they have any wounded.
WORF: Aye, sir.
[Sickbay]
GUL EVEK: Do you people have experience treating Cardassians?
CRUSHER: Yes. Do you mind?
PICARD: Gul Evek. I'm sorry that we could not come to your aid
sooner.
GUL EVEK: I suppose we're lucky you came at all. Lately Starfleet
seems to look the other way when the Maquis attack.
PICARD: I can assure you that is not the case. We're doing everything
in our power to control them.
GUL EVEK: The fact that my ship was attacked suggests that your
efforts have met with limited success. They came at us with photon
torpedoes and type eight phasers. Tell me, Captain, how do you suppose
that a group of civilians acquired such weaponry?
PICARD: I can assure you it was not through official channels.
GUL EVEK: So you don't think the fact that some of the Maquis are
former Starfleet officers has anything to do with it?
PICARD: Starfleet does not condone the Maquis' actions in the
Demilitarised Zone any more than your government would condone the
paramilitary actions of Cardassian civilians.
GUL EVEK: We have taken measures to deal with our colonists who have
armed themselves.
PICARD: Considering that they destroyed a Juhryan freighter less than
a week ago, I would say that your efforts are meeting with limited
success.
GUL EVEK: Captain, if the Maquis are not stopped, this situation will
continue to escalate to the point where the Cardassian military will
have no choice but to take matters into their own hands.
Captain's log, supplemental. Gul Evek and his crew have left the
Enterprise, and we have proceeded to our rendezvous with Admiral
Nechayev.
[Ready room]
NECHAYEV: No Bularian canapés this time, Captain?
PICARD: I thought twice was pushing it a little.
NECHAYEV: It's just as well. They're extremely fattening.
PICARD: You missed Gul Evek by a matter of hours. I asked him to stay.
I thought that an Admiral's assurances might convince him that we are
trying to deal with this Maquis situation.
NECHAYEV: Evek manages to make the Cardassians sound like helpless
sheep being preyed on by Federation wolves. The truth is, we caught
the Cardassian government supplying its colonies in the Demilitarised
Zone with weapons.
PICARD: Gul Evek assured me that they had stopped that practice.
NECHAYEV: Ha. How comforting.
PICARD: Admiral, this Maquis situation has you worried.
NECHAYEV: Believe me, Captain, if I were living that close to the
Cardassians, I'd keep a phaser under my pillow too. But in the last
weeks we've seen signs that the Maquis are moving beyond self-defence.
Their ranks are growing. They're acquiring ships, weapons. They seem
to be preparing for a more aggressive military posture. We've got to
put a stop to them before the entire Demilitarised Zone ignites. But
before we stop them, we have to find them. They seem to be scattered
in small cells around the Zone. And we don't have reliable
intelligence about any of them.
PICARD: Perhaps you need an undercover operative.
NECHAYEV: Our thinking exactly. We intend to infiltrate their
organisation, and the person we want to do it is aboard your ship
right now.
[Ro's quarters]
RO: Starfleet wants me to infiltrate the Maquis?
PICARD: Because of your recent training, because you're Bajoran, and
because of your past troubles with Starfleet gives you a certain
credibility.
RO: Well, that's certainly true. And just how soon would this mission
begin?
PICARD: Immediately.
RO: I see. I've spent the better part of my life fighting the
Cardassians. I never thought I'd be helping them out.
PICARD: This is a rare case when our interests and theirs coincide. We
both want peace in the Demilitarised Zone.
RO: I've heard a lot about the Maquis. One of my instructors at
Tactical Training, a Lieutenant Commander in Starfleet, a man I
admired and respected, he was sympathetic to them. He resigned and
left to join them.
PICARD: We're all sympathetic, Lieutenant. Our civilian population in
the Demilitarised Zone is in a very difficult situation, but even
sympathy has to end at some point. The peace treaty isn't just a piece
of paper. If the Maquis force us into a war with Cardassia, it could
mean hundreds of thousands of lives. Two years ago, Starfleet would
never have tapped you for this mission. They must have a lot of
confidence in you now.
RO: The way I see it, there's one good reason to take this mission,
and that's to validate your faith in me.
[Alien bar]
(mostly humanoid, a Vulcan, a Klingon. Ro, in civilian clothes enters
and sits at a table. Worf and Data enter in uniform, so she grabs the
man at the table and kisses him)
WORF: We are looking for a Bajoran woman, dark hair.
DATA: She is responsible for the death of a Cardassian soldier.
WORF: If we learn that she has been here, this establishment will be
closed down.
SANTOS: You say she had dark hair?
WORF: Yes.
SANTOS: She was here. You just missed her.
DATA: Do you know where she went?
SANTOS: No.
(Worf and Data leave, and Ro stops kissing the man. He's
disappointed.)
RO: It was really nice meeting you.
(Ro goes to the bar)
RO: Thanks.
SANTOS: So, did you kill that Cardassian?
RO: Starfleet thinks I did. That's reason enough to hide. Why did you
tell them that I'd left?
SANTOS: There are worse things a person can do than kill a Cardassian
soldier.
RO: You don't often meet someone willing to say that out loud.
SANTOS: In the Zone, there are a lot of us who feel that way.
RO: I'd like to meet people like that.
(Santos shoots her)
[Room]
MACIAS: (middle aged man) Don't be afraid. You're not in danger here.
SANTOS: What is your name?
KALITA: Did you kill that Cardassian soldier?
RO: Who are you?
SANTOS: We're the people who saved you from Starfleet.
RO: Thanks, but I'll be going now.
(Kalita points a weapon at Ro)
SANTOS: Did you kill that Cardassian?
RO: Yes.
KALITA: That's a risky thing to do in the Demilitarised Zone. You can
end up being hunted by Starfleet and the Cardassians.
RO: Then why did he risk bringing me here?
KALITA: We're asking the questions. Who are you?
RO: My name is Ro Laren. I grew up in the Bajoran camps.
MACIAS: That would explain why you have no love for Cardassians.
RO: I know what they're capable of. They tortured my father to death
and I was forced to watch.
SANTOS: Where are you living now?
RO: Nowhere. I was a Starfleet officer, but I was court-martialled and
sent to the stockade on Jaros Two. I'm not exactly what you'd call
Starfleet material.
SANTOS: When were you on Jaros?
RO: What difference does it make?
KALITA: We want to check your story. When were you there?
RO: Starfleet let me out about three years ago because I agreed to do
some work for them, mostly having to do with Bajor. But I got tired of
watching them placate the Cardassians, and so I left.
KALITA: You resigned?
RO: Not officially. That's part of the reason why they're looking for
me.
SANTOS: What were you doing on Omara?
RO: Look, I think I've answered enough of your questions. I would like
to know who you people are.
MACIAS: Let's say that we sympathise with those who oppose Cardassia.
RO: Are you Maquis?
MACIAS: What if we were?
RO: If you were, I would ask if I could join you and help you fight.
MACIAS: We'll check your story. Go ahead, I'll keep an eye on her.
(Kalita hands over the weapon then she and Santos leave. Macias puts
the gun on his chair)
MACIAS: Come, let's stretch our legs.
[Settlement]
(it's evening and the crickets are singing)
RO: Aren't you taking a chance by letting me see all of this? What if
my story doesn't check out? What if I'm not who I say I am?
MACIAS: Well, then we'll have a problem, won't we?
RO: You are Maquis, aren't you?
MACIAS: Many of the people here are.
RO: Starfleet considers you outlaws. They're afraid you'll destroy the
peace treaty.
MACIAS: They don't understand the situation here in the Zone. I lived
on Juhraya. When the treaty was signed the colony suddenly found
itself in Cardassian territory. Some of us chose to stay, take our
chances. Then one night I was dragged from my bed and beaten. The
authorities clucked their tongues and agreed it was an unfortunate
incident, and did nothing.
RO: I'm not surprised. The Cardassians intend to make life so
unpleasant for Federation citizens that they'll leave.
MACIAS: Exactly. And no one seems to see that, except the Maquis. How
old were you when your father was killed?
RO: I'd rather not talk about it.
MACIAS: Hungry? Would you like something?
RO: No, thank you.
MACIAS: (to replicator) Hasperat.
RO: You like hasperat?
MACIAS: An old Bajoran friend of mine used to make it. His was
stronger. He was killed many years ago fighting the Cardassian
occupation of Bajor. I miss his company, and his hasperat.
RO: My father used to make the strongest hasperat you've ever tasted.
Everything else seems mild by comparison.
MACIAS: Did he teach you how to make it?
RO: Yes. But I haven't tried it in years.
MACIAS: If you would make the brine for a really strong hasperat. I
mean eye watering, tongue searing strong, you'd make an old man very
happy.
RO: I would enjoy making it again.
SANTOS: Macias. I've checked with my sources at Starfleet. Her story's
true.
MACIAS: I was sure it was. Kalita, she'll stay with you until we can
find her a room.
[Meeting room]
MACIAS: Ah there you are.
KALITA: We've just heard a disturbing rumour.
RO: Another rumour?
KALITA: One that I think we should take seriously. A trader coming
from Pendi Two said he could verify that the Cardassians are going to
start supplying their colonists with biogenic weapons.
RO: I thought every shipment coming into the Zone was searched.
KALITA: The Cardassians always seem to find a way around problems like
that.
SANTOS: Then we have to make a preemptive strike. Send a message to
the Cardassians that we won't sit still while they kill us with
toxins.
MACIAS: Agreed. But we can't mount a strike without medical supplies
and our stockpile is dangerously low.
KALITA: If we put in a request for more, it'll draw suspicion.
RO: I can get medical supplies. I served on the Enterprise. They
always have extra medkits on hand for relief missions.
SANTOS: You're wanted by Starfleet. They're not going to give you
medkits just because you ask for them.
RO: I have no intention of asking for them. I intend to take them.
KALITA: How? The Enterprise is a fortress.
RO: I know its security systems work. Give me a ship. I can do it.
SANTOS: It's madness.
KALITA: We can't let her do something like this. We don't know
anything about her.
MACIAS: I know that she can make very strong hasperat.
KALITA: What?
MACIAS: We need medical supplies. I think we should let her try.
KALITA: All right. But I'm going with her.
RO: I could use an extra hand at the controls. And a witness.
[Ro's ship]
RO: I set the transporter confinement parameters to maximum. We should
be able to fill our hold with medical supplies with just one single
beam out.
KALITA: I had no idea it was going to be so easy.
RO: We're approaching the Federation border.
KALITA: How do you plan to get out of the Demilitarised Zone without
being searched at one of the checkpoints?
RO: We're going to cross the border here.
KALITA: There are sensor buoys all along the border. If we cross
anywhere other than a checkpoint, Starfleet will send a ship to
investigate.
RO: With the right security codes, we can disable the proximity
detectors on the buoys.
KALITA: Starfleet changes those codes all the time.
RO: I know the encryption algorithms. If I can access the buoy's
protocol subsystem I should be able to figure out the codes.
KALITA: Should be able to?
RO: Do you want this mission to succeed?
KALITA: Of course I do. We need those medical supplies.
RO: In that case, let me do my job. I'm in.
KALITA: What's wrong?
RO: If I don't input the right code in the next twenty seconds, we'll
trigger the proximity alarm.
KALITA: I'm getting us out of sensor range.
RO: Don't. If we break the comm. link, we won't be able to try again.
RO: It worked. Until they change the access codes again, we can cross
the border here.
Captain's log, stardate 47943.2. It has been over a week since
Lieutenant Ro left the Enterprise. We have yet to receive any
communication from her.
[Bridge]
RIKER: We picked up a request for emergency assistance from a
Federation science ship in the Topin system.
PICARD: Are there any other ships in the vicinity?
RIKER: We're the closest.
PICARD: Helm, set course for the Topin system. Mister Data, will you
signal the science ship that we're on our way.
DATA: It is unlikely that they would receive our communication, sir.
The Topin system contains an unstable protostar. It generates
significant magnetoscopic interference.
PICARD: Can we use our sensors to find them?
DATA: Most of our sensors would be ineffective, although our
directional array should cut through the interference.
RIKER: That array has such a narrow scan field. We might as well break
out the palm beacons and try to find them that way.
[Ro's ship]
KALITA: This is insane. We're sitting here, no sensors, blind to the
outside, waiting for a galaxy class Starship to come swooping down on
us.
RO: Don't worry. It'll be hard for them to locate us with just the
directional sensors. Besides, they're looking for a damaged science
ship that wants to be found. They're here. Standby to engage
thrusters.
[Bridge]
RIKER: Anything?
DATA: No, sir. It will take approximately six hours to scan this
system.
WORF: Captain, the distress call is being repeated.
PICARD: Data, can you locate the signal?
DATA: I am attempting to do so.
[Ro's ship]
KALITA: They're scanning our last position.
RO: All right, I've locked onto their sensor beam. I'm going to use it
to manoeuvre into transporter range.
KALITA: How are we going to beam through their shields?
RO: We can't. If we're going to get those medical supplies, we're
going to have to take this ship through their shields.
[Bridge]
DATA: Sir, I am scanning the area from which the distress signal was
sent, but I am unable to detect a vessel.
WORF: Captain, the computer has detected a piggyback communication on
the last distress signal.
PICARD: Can you decode it?
WORF: It will take a few moments.
PICARD: Do it.
[Ro's ship]
RO: The Enterprise shields have a weak point. When the ship is at
impulse, the thrust destabilises the shield configuration right at
this point. (between the nacelles) I'm going to try to punch through
there.
KALITA: Won't they detect us?
RO: They'll know something's penetrated the shields. With all the
interference it'll take them a few seconds to find us. We'll have to
beam the medical supplies aboard and get out fast.
[Bridge]
WORF: The message is difficult to decode. Interference has garbled
much of the transmission, but it seems to be from Lieutenant Ro.
PICARD: Ro is on that ship?
DATA: Sir, a vessel of some kind is attempting to penetrate our aft
shields.
PICARD: Let it through.
[Ro's ship]
RO: We're going to make it. All right, we're in.
KALITA: Energising.
(their hold is filled up)
RO: Let's get out of here.
They had _push_ through a natural weak spot, and only made it through
because Picard recognized Ro's code, and order it to be allowed
through.
-Mike
mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu
[Ro's ship]
[Bridge]
[Ro's ship]
[Bridge]
WORF: Captain, a quantity of medical supplies was beamed from cargo
bay seven.
DATA: The vessel that penetrated our shields is of the same design as
the ships used by the Maquis. It is moving off.
PICARD: Let it go. There must be someone with her. We should make it
look as though we're trying to stop them. Mister Worf, lock phasers on
their previous position and fire.
WORF: Aye, sir.
RIKER: Now we know what they mean by Advanced Tactical Training
As you can see, the ship had to push through a weak point in the
shields where the impulse engine exaust vents out of. But even then ,
Ro had to rely on Picard recognizing her coded transmission, and hope
that someone would let her ship through.
-Mike
((Sorry about that. Somehow the stupid thing grabbed the wrong section
of the transcript.))
Phillip Thorne
>> > And in the ep where Ro [...] flew a shuttle into position between
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu wrote:
>> Here's the dialog from "Preemptive Strike":
>>
>>[Ro tells Kalita the E's shields have a weak point caused by
>> impulse thrust, but additionally Data adjusts them to let craft
>> through.]
Thank you for the corroborating script-quote, Mike. To penetrate the
bubble, you need to do "... or something" <waving hands>. Normally,
they're impermeable not just to dust or (I dunno -- orbital debris
from satellites) but also to objects at least as large as shuttles.
Although a weak point is plausible in that location (if your impulse
exhaust remains in your vicinity, it'll negate the rocket effect), it
appears Ro lied to Kalita about how precisely how permeable it was.
So now, the question is: should we expect this to apply to (a)
Starfleet tech of a century earlier, and (b) to a chunk of debris many
times larger that Ro's craft? Clearly, we need more examples. Such
as asteroid debris bouncing off the E-nil, or the E-D sneaking through
a mineshaft.
Aha! Scotty used the _Jenolen's_ shield bubble to prop open the door
on the Dyson Sphere so the E-D could exit. So presumably TMP-era
ships can exert physical force with their shields (although it may not
be the usual operating mode).
CaptJosh
> Aha! Scotty used the _Jenolen's_ shield bubble to prop open the door
> on the Dyson Sphere so the E-D could exit. So presumably TMP-era
> ships can exert physical force with their shields (although it may not
> be the usual operating mode).
>
IIRC, in the books, though I know it's not canon material, one thing
that the older style shields were able to do is tune to perform specific
tasks. Newer shields didn't have this ability. They were more powerful
overall and more broad spectrum. But being able to tune against certain
things, such as being used as a force field in the case of the Jenolen,
made the older shields able to be more effective against specific
threats for which they were tuned than their overall output would suggest.
Still doesn't explain why everyone and their mother always went after
shield number 4 on Kirk's Enterprise in the original timeline though.
--
CaptJosh
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary and those who don't.
mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu
barge with shields extended around it to protect it while it is towed
through an asteroid field and into a local sun.
-MIke
GeneK
> So now, the question is: should we expect this to apply to (a)
> Starfleet tech of a century earlier, and (b) to a chunk of debris many
> times larger that Ro's craft? Clearly, we need more examples. Such
> as asteroid debris bouncing off the E-nil, or the E-D sneaking through
> a mineshaft.
The Romulans' "high energy plasma" cannon in "Balance of Terror."
Plasma is matter, regardless of how highly energized it is.
GeneK