conscious ships
Tony
Tom McDonald
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
>
>
The Culture novels by Iain Banks spring to mind. Not only are the
ships conscious, they are intellectually superior to folks. Plus
they have wonderful names. (You gotta love the 'You'll Clean That
Up Before You Leave'; and you probably should tiptoe around the
'Now We Try It My Way.' I think it's clear how you should act
around the 'Eight Rounds Rapid', too.)
--
Tom
When Tyrants tremble, sick with fear,
And hear their death-knell ringing;
When friends rejoice, both far and near,
How can I keep from singing.
Tony
"Tom McDonald" <tmcdon...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:QnHMm.38465$%j4....@newsfe18.iad...
> Tony wrote:
>> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
>
> The Culture novels by Iain Banks spring to mind. Not only are the ships
> conscious, they are intellectually superior to folks. Plus they have wonderful
> names. (You gotta love the 'You'll Clean That Up Before You Leave'; and you
> probably should tiptoe around the 'Now We Try It My Way.' I think it's clear
> how you should act around the 'Eight Rounds Rapid', too.)
>
I love the way Iain Banks's space ships are conscious and have spirited
personalities. I remember that the ship in Destination Void was conscious, and
a ship in Star Trek, but I haven't encountered many other instances of conscious
space ships - unless you count Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. However, that
particular conscious computer was really annoying. ;-)
Brenda Clough
And of course THE SHIP WHO SANG by Anne McCaffrey. Haven't looked at
the sequels.
Brenda
art...@yahoo.com
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
Will a short story do?
"Boojum" by Elizabeth Bear & Sarah Monette.One can find this in
Dozois's 2009 Year's Best Science Fiction (#26) and Hartwell's Year's
Best SF #14
Wayne Throop
: The Culture novels by Iain Banks spring to mind.
Yakov sez: "In former Soviet Culture, Mind springs to you!"
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Wayne Throop
: I love the way Iain Banks's space ships are conscious and have
: spirited personalities. I remember that the ship in Destination Void
: was conscious, and a ship in Star Trek, but I haven't encountered many
: other instances of conscious space ships - unless you count
: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Hm. So you haven't encountered Hal, nor Dora, nor the Muddlin' Through,
nor Dahak, nor Fess, nor Uncle Virgil, nor Andromeda, nor Moya, nor
Ryo-ohki, nor Qin Shihuangdi, nor Ennesby (aka Serial Peacemaker),
nor Excelsior, nor... well, lots and lots ? And lots ?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LivingShip
William December Starr
thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) said:
> Hm. So you haven't encountered Hal, nor Dora, nor the Muddlin'
> Through, nor Dahak, nor Fess, nor Uncle Virgil, nor Andromeda, nor
> Moya, nor Ryo-ohki, nor Qin Shihuangdi, nor Ennesby (aka Serial
> Peacemaker), nor Excelsior, nor... well, lots and lots ? And
> lots ?
>
> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LivingShip
It gets to be a question whether things like HAL or Dora were ships,
really. I think I'd say they were just on board ships.
-- wds
Wayne Throop
: It gets to be a question whether things like HAL or Dora were ships,
: really. I think I'd say they were just on board ships.
Eh. Is a human who's had a brain transplant (or looking at it the
other way around, a full body transplant) *really* human, or just *in*
a human? Or, for that matter, consider Altered Carbon. Further, the
paradigm advanced for this trope upthread was Culture ships. And the
Minds are extractable/implantable.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
>What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
_Realms of Light_, though the Ukiba is only a very minor character;
I'm not sure it gets a single line of dialogue.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm selling my comic collection -- see http://www.watt-evans.com/comics.html
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DouhetSukd
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
There's a horror short story/novella by George RR Martin that features
a conscious ship. The story bears more than a passing resemblance to
a famous thriller movie of the 60s, but is otherwise serviceable
enough.
Name escapes me for now.
Not strictly speaking a ship, but The Skinner by Neal Asher features
an attack drone quite similar to the Culture novels. Its sequel has
the drone and a space station AI more front and center as characters,
but The Skinner is by far the better book.
Andrew Plotkin
> On Nov 17, 4:28�pm, "Tony" <t...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
>
> There's a horror short story/novella by George RR Martin that features
> a conscious ship. The story bears more than a passing resemblance to
> a famous thriller movie of the 60s, but is otherwise serviceable
> enough.
>
> Name escapes me for now.
Nightflyers.
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
Garrett Wollman
Depending on how strongly you mean "featuring", Julian May's /The
Many-Colored Land/ could apply. The Duat recidivists escape to our
galaxy in such a ship, which promptly dies from the effort, in the
prologue.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
David Mitchell
> Tony wrote:
>> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
>>
>>
>>
> The Culture novels by Iain Banks spring to mind. Not only are the ships
> conscious, they are intellectually superior to folks. Plus they have
> wonderful names.
I think you're in danger of starting a "favourite Culture Ship names" sub-
thread.
Just in case it doesn't happen, let me start the ball rolling with mine:
<FX: tiny font>
"i said, i've got a very big stick"
--
=======================================================================
= David --- If you use Microsoft products, you will, inevitably, get
= Mitchell --- viruses, so please don't add me to your address book.
=======================================================================
Tom McDonald
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:39:41 -0600, Tom McDonald wrote:
>
>> Tony wrote:
>>> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> The Culture novels by Iain Banks spring to mind. Not only are the ships
>> conscious, they are intellectually superior to folks. Plus they have
>> wonderful names.
>
> I think you're in danger of starting a "favourite Culture Ship names" sub-
> thread.
>
> Just in case it doesn't happen, let me start the ball rolling with mine:
> <FX: tiny font>
>
> "i said, i've got a very big stick"
>
"Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall"
Michael Grosberg
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
If a ship run by a human mind is also acceptable then M. John
Harrison's _Light_ has one.
Mike Schilling
Kim DeVaughn
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
Haven't seen it mentioned yet: _Life Probe_ by Michael McCollum. Quite a
good bit of space opera, as is the sequel _Procyon's Promise_ (though the
Probe only gets a mention in it, the sequel).
/kim
--
============================================================================
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity."
--Harlan Ellison
Wayne Throop
: Quite a good bit of space opera, as is the sequel _Procyon's Promise_
: (though the Probe only gets a mention in it, the sequel).
For some reason, that reminds me of Glen Cook's The Dragon Never Sleeps,
which in turn reminds me of Theodore Cogswell's Early Bird and...
drat, has to be a yasid, about a living ship used by pirates
gung riraghnyyl rngf vgf bja perj (zber be yrff, fbeg bs).
And then of course, there's Zahn's War Horse.
It's not clear if Three to a Given Star, or, say, Drunkboat,
should count. Ah well, probably not.
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <_JWdnYBkWewTop7W...@giganews.com>):
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
>
>
There are a _lot_ of them. In addition to the various Culture stories already
mentioned in this thread, there are:
1 Megaera, in David Weber's Fury book(s) (really just one story, the second
one is the first one plus Additional Unnecessary Padding)
2 Lobo, in Mark L. van Name's Jon and Lobo stories
3 for just 'ship' rather than 'space ship', there are lots and lots of
enchanted ships roaming fantasy seas, including the multiple Live Ships in
Robin Hobb's Liveship books (one of those books is even titled _Mad Ship_,
which rather says it all about the plot)
4 assorted ships in later RAH books (see _The Mark of the Beast_ and later)
5 if you allow shorter works, there are multiple examples from stories by
Anderson and many, many others, including the absolutely classic Damon Knight
short "Tommy Loy". And, of course, AC in Asimov's "The Last Question".
6 for 'self-aware because some human got cyborged into the ship' there would
be Niven's 'Donovan's Brain' stories, and McCaffery's 'Ship who sang' books,
among others.
7 for values of 'self-aware Really Large Objects' there are the various Bolo
stories by Laumer and company, and the (I think) Class Three Robots in Scott
Kellog's '21st Century Fox' webcomic. (IIRC Class One robots are usually
small items, such as toasters. Class Two robots are larger items, such as
trucks and automatic tunneling machines. Class Three robots are buildings.
Such as space elevator being built in Kenedy County, Texas...)
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
William F. Adams
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
Mike Brotherton's _Stardragon_ features the Karamojo, a ship
controlled by an AI modelled on Hemingway.
William
Walter Bushell
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker_(Saberhagen)>
The Berserker series of science fiction short stories by Fred Saberhagen
(1930-2007) is a variety of space opera in which robotic
self-replicating machines intend to destroy all organic life. These
berserkers, a doomsday weapon left over from an interstellar war 50,000
years ago, are killer spaceships furnished with machine intelligence,
operating from asteroid-sized berserker bases where they are capable of
building more Berserkers and auxiliary machines. The name is a reference
to the human "Berserkers", warriors of Norse legend.
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
Greg Goss
Dora was the ship. Hal is arguable, but I'd say he was the ship.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Greg Goss
>The "for the State" ships in Niven's Integral Trees books.
>
Which, of course, started with Pierce/Peersha in A World Out Of Time.
David DeLaney
>"Tony" <to...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
>
>_Realms of Light_, though the Ukiba is only a very minor character;
>I'm not sure it gets a single line of dialogue.
And it's a subplot through most of Sucharitkul's Inquestor series (Light on
the Sound, The Throne of Madness, Utopia Hunters, The Darkling Wind) (for
those who for some reason STILL haven't read them).
Dave "my starwhale" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Joseph Nebus
Hm. Well, HAL was initially turned on in Urbana, Illinois,
wasn't he? If he could function about as normally without being put
aboard ship that seems to argue against his being the ship.
Not a novel, but James Blish's 'Solar Plexus', from about 1940
or so, is an early example of a brain-in-a-spaceship story. It doesn't
do enough neat stuff with the idea, though it does announce a side
effect of the brain-in-a-box procedure that I find particularly
horrifying, which you have to pretend doesn't exist or the story could
not have got started.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne Throop
: Hm. Well, HAL was initially turned on in Urbana, Illinois,
: aboard ship that seems to argue against his being the ship.
Then (if we want to be conistent) we rule out Culture ships also.
Szymon Sokół
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:39:41 -0600, Tom McDonald wrote:
>
>> Tony wrote:
>>> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
>>>
>> The Culture novels by Iain Banks spring to mind. Not only are the ships
>> conscious, they are intellectually superior to folks. Plus they have
>> wonderful names.
>
> I think you're in danger of starting a "favourite Culture Ship names" sub-
> thread.
How many times it has already happened before?
> "i said, i've got a very big stick"
"What Are Civilian Applications?"
--
Szymon Sokół (SS316-RIPE) -- Network Manager B
Computer Center, AGH - University of Science and Technology, Cracow, Poland O
http://home.agh.edu.pl/szymon/ PGP key id: RSA: 0x2ABE016B, DSS: 0xF9289982 F
Free speech includes the right not to listen, if not interested -- Heinlein H
Default User
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
Robert F. Young had a series of stories featuring a "space whale", a
naturally occuring creature that could travel through time and space.
Humans capture them and destroy the brain so they can be used as ships.
One such whale makes a deal with the guy sent to do this, and becomes
his personal space ship. The whale communicates via icons. There was a
fixup novel from the stories as well, Starfinder.
Brian
--
Day 289 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
Ilya2
> or so, is an early example of a brain-in-a-spaceship story. It doesn't
> do enough neat stuff with the idea, though it does announce a side
> effect of the brain-in-a-box procedure that I find particularly
> horrifying, which you have to pretend doesn't exist or the story could
> not have got started.
Care to explain what it is?
Ilya2
In Rudy Rucker's "Software" there is a conscious spaceship (BEX),
conscious hotel (DEX), and conscious chip factory (MEX). To put a
twist on things, BEX contains uploaded (against their will) minds of a
number of humans. Its stewardesses are robot-remotes, but most of the
time they are controlled by these uploaded human personalities.
trag
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
All of the Berserker stories...
Mike Van Pelt
David Mitchell <david.robo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>I think you're in danger of starting a "favourite Culture Ship names" sub-
>thread.
_Regrettable Collateral Damage_
--
Mike Van Pelt "If they're going to talk about
mvp.at.calweb.com Camelot, then we get to talk about
KE6BVH The Lady in the Lake." - ?
Tony
"Wayne Throop" <thr...@sheol.org> wrote in message news:12585...@sheol.org...
>: wds...@panix.com (William December Starr)
> : It gets to be a question whether things like HAL or Dora were ships,
> : really. I think I'd say they were just on board ships.
>
> Eh. Is a human who's had a brain transplant (or looking at it the
> other way around, a full body transplant) *really* human,
Sure.
> or just *in*
> a human?
No.
> Or, for that matter, consider Altered Carbon.
That sounds like an interesting book. I'll check that out. I'm not sure if
that example is an actual human or just some type of computer program without
reading the book.
> Further, the
> paradigm advanced for this trope upthread was Culture ships. And the
> Minds are extractable/implantable.
>
With the Culture ships, it seems like the ship "bodies" constitute an important
part of their being or identity. For historical and other reasons, these
Culture ships are not simply a computer or robot controlling a ship, but a
being, essentially constituted as a ship. They like being ships. They identify
with being ships. They are ships.
erilar
Brenda Clough <Bre...@sff.net> wrote:
> And of course THE SHIP WHO SANG by Anne McCaffrey. Haven't looked at
> the sequels.
There are some more. I happen to like them.
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
Wayne Throop
::: really. I think I'd say they were just on board ships.
:: Eh. Is a human who's had a brain transplant (or looking at it the
:: other way around, a full body transplant) *really* human,
: Sure.
:: or just *in* a human?
: No.
Hm. OK. So, how do you draw the distinction, such that transplanting
HAL into a ship in such a way that it is controlled directly is not a
case of becoming the ship, but transplanting a brain into a human body
in such a way that it is control directly *is* a case of becoming human?
What if HAL were transplanted into a human body? Or the brain into the ship?
Seriously now, I don't see what distinction you are drawing.
: With the Culture ships, it seems like the ship "bodies" constitute an
: important part of their being or identity.
Yet in Consider Flea-bites, we have a Culture Mind before it is given
a ship body, and it certainly seemed to have an identity even then.
So how do you figure? Certainly HAL has the greatest enthuseasm and
confidence in his ship body and its mission; it's really a very major
part of his identity, imo.
: Culture ships are not simply a computer or robot controlling a ship,
: but a being, essentially constituted as a ship. They like being
: ships. They identify with being ships. They are ships.
Again, how do you draw the distinction?
Or is it just one of those "I know it when I see it" things?
Greg Goss
Your use of the phrase "brain in a box" brought to mind two of Niven's
first short stories. I forget what damage had been done to the body
of the body of the guy who became the ship's brain. One of the
stories explored the nature of psychosomatic symptoms in such a
cyborg.
Joe Pfeiffer
> ::: It gets to be a question whether things like HAL or Dora were ships,
> ::: really. I think I'd say they were just on board ships.
>
> :: Eh. Is a human who's had a brain transplant (or looking at it the
> :: other way around, a full body transplant) *really* human,
>
> : Sure.
>
> :: or just *in* a human?
>
> : No.
>
> Hm. OK. So, how do you draw the distinction, such that transplanting
> HAL into a ship in such a way that it is controlled directly is not a
> case of becoming the ship, but transplanting a brain into a human body
> in such a way that it is control directly *is* a case of becoming human?
> What if HAL were transplanted into a human body? Or the brain into the ship?
>
> Seriously now, I don't see what distinction you are drawing.
I sort of agree with him on the "feel" of the thing, but I don't think
there's a real distinction. The ship wasn't referred to as HAL, just
the control computer. The ship was referred to as Discovery One. So
the way it was presented gives one the "feel" of it being "ship with a
computer on board", rather than "ship is the computer". But if you step
back a minute and think about it, it really is the same thing (at least,
when I step back a minute that's my conclusion).
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)
David DeLaney
And I'm currently reading Slanted Jack by van Name, which has a conscious
space/atmosphere ship (Lobo) and many smaller conscious (and arguing, and
jabbering) appliances and electronic thingys. They're all somewhat of a
sidelight to the main plot, a slightly convoluted con-job run.
Dave
David Mitchell
> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:32:04 -0600, David Mitchell wrote:
>> I think you're in danger of starting a "favourite Culture Ship names"
>> sub- thread.
>
> How many times it has already happened before?
At least once, I'm pretty sure.
--
=======================================================================
= David --- If you use Microsoft products, you will, inevitably, get
= Mitchell --- viruses, so please don't add me to your address book.
=======================================================================
Butch Malahide
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
Can't help with the novels, I'm a short story man.
SPACESHIP CONTROLLED BY HUMAN BRAIN (not clear why any spaceship with
a human pilot wouldn't go here, but I guess non-detachable brains are
preferred for some reason):
"Solar Plexus" by James Blish
"Mr. Spaceship" by Philip K. Dick
LIVING SPACESHIP:
"Strange Exodus" by Robert Abernathy
"Cabin Boy" by Damon Knight
"Lexx" but that's not written sf
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Throop" <thr...@sheol.org>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: conscious ships
> ::: It gets to be a question whether things like HAL or Dora were ships,
> ::: really. I think I'd say they were just on board ships.
>
> :: Eh. Is a human who's had a brain transplant (or looking at it the
> :: other way around, a full body transplant) *really* human,
>
> : Sure.
>
> :: or just *in* a human?
>
> : No.
>
> Hm. OK. So, how do you draw the distinction, such that transplanting
> HAL into a ship in such a way that it is controlled directly is not a
> case of becoming the ship,
I think he was a conscious entity before that. I recall he learned the song
"Daisy Bell" on Earth.
> but transplanting a brain into a human body
> in such a way that it is control directly *is* a case of becoming human?
The brain doesn't become human then. It was already human before
transplantation.
> What if HAL were transplanted into a human body?
It would be a computer or robot controling a human body: not human.
> Or the brain into the ship?
It would be a human brain, without a body.
>
> Seriously now, I don't see what distinction you are drawing.
Human brains are human. Computer brains are not human, although they may be
sentient. Alien brains are not human, although they may be sentient.
Dolphin brains are not human. It's a species thing.
>
> : With the Culture ships, it seems like the ship "bodies" constitute an
> : important part of their being or identity.
>
> Yet in Consider Flea-bites, we have a Culture Mind before it is given
> a ship body, and it certainly seemed to have an identity even then.
I'm not familiar with that case.
> So how do you figure? Certainly HAL has the greatest enthuseasm and
> confidence in his ship body and its mission; it's really a very major
> part of his identity, imo.
I'm not sure that's a great example. He said he was enthusiastic, but he
didn't sound very enthusiastic.
>
> : Culture ships are not simply a computer or robot controlling a ship,
> : but a being, essentially constituted as a ship. They like being
> : ships. They identify with being ships. They are ships.
>
> Again, how do you draw the distinction?
> Or is it just one of those "I know it when I see it" things?
>
The Culture ships used their ship bodies as if they were real (human like)
bodies. They "flexed their muscles" and committed themselves to actions and
died, as if their ship bodies were an essential part of their being. I
suppose it was an existential thing. The historical act (acting with a ship
body) created essence: the ship's "soul," if you will. They loved the
fight. They loved the risk. They loved actual, physical being. They were
more than a program or plan. They were the historical act.
Michael Stemper
>>Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:
>>>Dora was the ship.
From the same mileu (give or take tau v teh), we also have Gay
Deceiver, who is definitely the ship.
>Your use of the phrase "brain in a box" brought to mind two of Niven's
>first short stories. I forget what damage had been done to the body
>of the body of the guy who became the ship's brain. One of the
>stories explored the nature of psychosomatic symptoms in such a
>cyborg.
That one was "Becalmed in Hell", the other was "The Coldest Place".
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.
David DeLaney
>> but transplanting a brain into a human body
>> in such a way that it is control directly *is* a case of becoming human?
>
>The brain doesn't become human then. It was already human before
>transplantation.
For your pu-ny biological definitions of human maybe.
>> What if HAL were transplanted into a human body?
>
>It would be a computer or robot controling a human body: not human.
Aaaaand here's where a battalion of lawyers descends, apparently from
nowhere, to start arguing a whole new arena of case law.
>> Seriously now, I don't see what distinction you are drawing.
>
>Human brains are human. Computer brains are not human, although they may be
>sentient. Alien brains are not human, although they may be sentient.
>Dolphin brains are not human. It's a species thing.
Okaythen. Are werewolf brains human? How about vampire brains, or Forsaken
brains? (Mmmm brains.) Brains of the Sleepless? How about Trent Castanaveras'
Black Beast AI, or his inskin?
>> Yet in Consider Flea-bites, we have a Culture Mind before it is given
>> a ship body, and it certainly seemed to have an identity even then.
>
>I'm not familiar with that case.
("Consider Phlebas" if you want to be more successful in finding it.)
>> Again, how do you draw the distinction?
>> Or is it just one of those "I know it when I see it" things?
>
>The Culture ships used their ship bodies as if they were real (human like)
>bodies. They "flexed their muscles" and committed themselves to actions and
>died, as if their ship bodies were an essential part of their being. I
>suppose it was an existential thing. The historical act (acting with a ship
>body) created essence: the ship's "soul," if you will. They loved the
>fight. They loved the risk. They loved actual, physical being. They were
>more than a program or plan. They were the historical act.
So whether or not they were ship brains depends not on the brain at all, but
on how the brain used the attached body? (There's some good stuff hiding in
that thought, yes.)
Dave "fors brevis, ars longis" DeLaney
Szymon Sokół
> Human brains are human. Computer brains are not human, although they may be
> sentient. Alien brains are not human, although they may be sentient.
> Dolphin brains are not human. It's a species thing.
I think you may have a point here. In such case, the only "sentient ships" I
can recall are Leviathans (the Farscape ships, like "Moya") - their minds
are *born* as ship minds, wich ship bodies. Other ships, like Discovery One
or Culture units are just ships with a sentient mind *piloting* them.
Peter Huebner
implant. She makes a living as hauler/trader/smuggler. Interplanetary
space travel is a monopoly of an ancient race, some kind of squid, who
live on a secret planet and have, as it turns out, stolen the technology
of the spacedrive from yet another race whom they exterminated.
Client races traverse space by flying their ships into the gigantic
ships of the squids and anchoring in there, then get dropped off
whereever ...
One agent of this race of squids sets up a complex scheme to destroy a
leftover and rediscovered spaceship of said precursor race; through
channels our heroine gets hired as a person probaly capable of
communication with the precursor ship.
Overall the novel is pretty noir.
The heroine's own [smuggler]ship, as I recall, is conscious (albeit
subject to suversion by some super-virus). That's what brought the novel
to mind. Can't remember author nor title even though I read it in the
not too distant past :-(
-P.
Michael Stemper
>"Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>The "for the State" ships in Niven's Integral Trees books.
>>
>
>Which, of course, started with Pierce/Peersha in A World Out Of Time.
Well, it started in "Rammer", actually.
Tony
"David DeLaney" <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote
<snip>
>
> Okay then. Are werewolf brains human? How about vampire brains,
It would depend on how the werewolves of vampires were described in the
particular works of fictions. For example, in the world of Lord of the Rings,
they would probably not be considered human, just as Dwarfs, Elves, Orcs, Maia
and Valar were not considered human. In other works, they might represent a
separate species, e.g., calling themselves Lichens or Carpathians, for example.
In still other stories these creatures would be humans suffering from rare
diseases or magical spells.
>or Forsaken
> brains? (Mmmm brains.) Brains of the Sleepless? How about Trent Castanaveras'
> Black Beast AI, or his inskin?
>
I'm not sure about these folks. I've never actually heard of them.
Mark Zenier
Colin Greenland's "Plenty/Tabitha Jute" books.
_Take Back Plenty_
_Seasons of Plenty_
_Mother of Plenty_
Yea, three of them, and each book gets a bit stranger.
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
Michael Stemper
>In article <MPG.25711fd44...@news.individual.net>, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
>>One agent of this race of squids sets up a complex scheme to destroy a
>>leftover and rediscovered spaceship of said precursor race; through
>>channels our heroine gets hired as a person probaly capable of
>>communication with the precursor ship.
>>The heroine's own [smuggler]ship, as I recall, is conscious (albeit
>>subject to suversion by some super-virus). That's what brought the novel
>>to mind. Can't remember author nor title even though I read it in the
>>not too distant past :-(
>
>Colin Greenland's "Plenty/Tabitha Jute" books.
>_Take Back Plenty_
>_Seasons of Plenty_
>_Mother of Plenty_
>
>Yea, three of them, and each book gets a bit stranger.
I had no idea that there was more than the first. "Stranger" can be
good -- do they get better, or at least maintain quality?
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
If it's "tourist season", where do I get my license?
Peter Huebner
flower...@yahoo.com says...
>
> STEALING LIGHT, Gary Gibson
>
Thanks, that was it.
And here's one in the eye for Trumpet: she has sex with robots, too, so
there :-P LOL
Alltogether not a bad book, and I think I'll look for more by the same
author. Certainly appealed more to me than Jim Butcher or Glenn Cook -
two other authors I recently picked up [new].
-P.
Greg Goss
>In article <7mihaeF...@mid.individual.net>, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:
>>"Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>The "for the State" ships in Niven's Integral Trees books.
>>>
>>
>>Which, of course, started with Pierce/Peersha in A World Out Of Time.
>
>Well, it started in "Rammer", actually.
A World Out Of Time was both stories in one book, wasn't it?
I preferred the title he used in the second novel as a stand-alone
"Children of the State"
Mark Zenier
I'd go for just as good, or a little better.
It's been 10-15 years, so I'm a bit vague on a lot of it and what I
remember is major spoiler material. (The other respondant pointed to
another book, I guess that's the reason why I didn't think squid was
the best description for the alien aliens, whose name I can't remember.
Crocodiles crossed with ents would be my description. Some day I'll
get one of these vague YASIDs correct. ;-( ).
"Seasons" is about how things go really wrong (and strange) on an overlong
impromptu trip on a living starship whose drive works by manufacturing
its own reality, with large groups of people working at cross purposes.
It drags a bit, but it might have been written just that way. (Or just
"middle of a series" syndrome).
"Mother" is about what happens when they get to their destination and
deal with the alien aliens. And the not so benevolent benevolent aliens,
and the transhumans, and the kitchen sink.
It seems like a homage to '60s New Wave head trips, so possible readers be
aware. And a satire/parody of a lot of the standard space opera tropes.
A lot of funny little bits. Even one where the author makes fun of the
cover of "Take Back Plenty". (The cover of "Take Back Plenty" portrayed
Tabitha, whose ancestry was pretty much global, as a blond with bazoom!s
in a skin tight silver jumpsuit. One of the later covers is more accurate).
(I kind of wish I hadn't traded them now, but there's more stuff to
read than there is time to read it and space to store it).
Gene Wirchenko
[snip]
>I think you're in danger of starting a "favourite Culture Ship names" sub-
>thread.
I agree. I am considering making some up. Izzat allowed? It
will be aloud if I start.
>Just in case it doesn't happen, let me start the ball rolling with mine:
><FX: tiny font>
>
>"i said, i've got a very big stick"
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Alexey Romanov
> For some reason, that reminds me of Glen Cook's The Dragon Never Sleeps,
> which in turn reminds me of Theodore Cogswell's Early Bird and...
> drat, has to be a yasid, about a living ship used by pirates
> gung riraghnyyl rngf vgf bja perj (zber be yrff, fbeg bs).
Elizabeth Bear's "Boojum" fits the first part, but gur fuvc bayl
fbeg-bs-rngf gur cebgntbavfg; gur erfg bs gur perj trgf xvyyrq orpnhfr
gurve pncgnva unf n ernyyl, ernyyl onq vqrn.
--
Alexey Romanov
Kay Shapero
says...
there's one on Wikipedia here: http://preview.tinyurl.com/yttw4j
A couple I thought of on my own:
Whimsical When Bored
I Thought YOU Brought The Potato Salad
--
Kay Shapero
address munged, email kay at following domain
http://www.kayshapero.net
William December Starr
> Yet in Consider Flea-bites, we have a Culture Mind before it is
> given a ship body, and it certainly seemed to have an identity
> even then. So how do you figure? Certainly HAL has the greatest
> enthuseasm and confidence in his ship body and its mission; it's
> really a very major part of his identity, imo.
Did HAL ever talk about having the greatest enthusiasm about the
ship? I only remember him reporting on its condition, most
specifically the radio antenna that was out of alignment.
> ["Tony" <to...@hotmail.com> said:]
>
>> Culture ships are not simply a computer or robot controlling a
>> ship, but a being, essentially constituted as a ship. They like
>> being ships. They identify with being ships. They are ships.
>
> Again, how do you draw the distinction?
> Or is it just one of those "I know it when I see it" things?
Pretty much the latter, I think. One test is whether the AI
identified with or showed any particular attachment to the vessel,
to the point of not wanting to -- or not ever considering the
possibility of -- moving or installing somewhere else. As I said,
I don't recall that being the case with HAL, or Dora.
-- wds
William December Starr
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) said:
> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:
>> "Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The "for the State" ships in Niven's Integral Trees books.
>>>
>>
>> Which, of course, started with Pierce/Peersha in A World Out Of
>> Time.
>
> Well, it started in "Rammer", actually.
Did it, technically speaking? I thought "Rammer" ended with Corbell
sending Peersa et al a singing fuckyougram over the radio as he flew
off, with the arrival and announcement of the presence of the Peersa
AI in the ship's computer not happening until the next part of the
book.
-- wds
William December Starr
Alexey Romanov <alex...@mail.ru> said:
> Wayne Throop wrote:
>
>> For some reason, that reminds me of Glen Cook's The Dragon Never
>> Sleeps, which in turn reminds me of Theodore Cogswell's Early
>> Bird and... drat, has to be a yasid, about a living ship used by
>> pirates gung riraghnyyl rngf vgf bja perj (zber be yrff, fbeg bs).
>
> Elizabeth Bear's "Boojum" fits the first part,
Co-written:
Title: Boojum
Authors: Sarah Monette and Elizabeth Bear
Year: 2008
Type: SHORTFICTION
Storylen: shortstory
Publications:
* Fast Ships, Black Sails, (2008, Ann VanderMeer, Jeff VanderMeer,
Night Shade Books, 978-1-59780-094-5, $14.95, 245pp, tp, anth)
* The Year's Best Science Fiction: Twenty-Sixth Annual Collection,
(Jun 2009, Gardner Dozois, St. Martin's Griffith, 0-312-55105-3,
$21.95, xlviii+639pp, tp, anth)
I know that it is, or was, available online somewhere, as part of
the publisher's promotion of _Fast Ships_ I think, because that's
how I read it. I don't know where though, or if it's still up.
> but gur fuvc bayl fbeg-bs-rngf gur cebgntbavfg; gur erfg bs gur
> perj trgf xvyyrq orpnhfr gurve pncgnva unf n ernyyl, ernyyl onq
> vqrn.
I dislike conducting conversations in rot13 but I see no way around
it here.
<rot13> V'q fnl gung gur pncgnva qvqa'g fb zhpu unir n ernyyl,
ernyyl onq vqrn nf vg jnf n pnfr bs "Bu. V qvqa'g xabj gung nobhg
gung phygher..." </rot13>
-- wds
William December Starr
"William F. Adams" <will...@aol.com> said:
> Mike Brotherton's _Stardragon_ features the Karamojo, a ship
> controlled by an AI modelled on Hemingway.
An AI modeled on Ernest Hemingway. I'm sure that will turn
out well.
-- wds
William December Starr
"Tony" <to...@hotmail.com> said:
> What are some novels featuring conscious space ships?
ALIEN EARTH, Megan Lindholm. Most of the story takes place on an
organic starship on an expedition to revisit Earth centuries
(millennia?) after humanity had been forced to abandon it due to
having screwed up its environment too badly. The ship starts out
simply as a setting -- the characters don't deal with it directly
but rather through an alien that tells it what to do -- but becomes
a major character over the course of events.
-- wds
William December Starr
mze...@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) said:
> It seems like a homage to '60s New Wave head trips, so possible
> readers be aware. And a satire/parody of a lot of the standard
> space opera tropes. A lot of funny little bits. Even one where
> the author makes fun of the cover of "Take Back Plenty". (The
> cover of "Take Back Plenty" portrayed Tabitha, whose ancestry was
> pretty much global, as a blond with bazoom!s in a skin tight
> silver jumpsuit. One of the later covers is more accurate).
You mean this?
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/0380763958>
Bazoom!s, check, skintight silver jumpsuit, check, blond, not
so much.
Then again, the ISFDB lists three different cover artists for
different editions, so maybe you're thinking of another one.
-- wds
David Mitchell
> In article <0pagg5t3hgspai0dn...@4ax.com>, ge...@ocis.net
> says...
>> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:32:04 -0600, David Mitchell
>> <david.robo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> >I think you're in danger of starting a "favourite Culture Ship names"
>> >sub- thread.
>>
>> I agree. I am considering making some up. Izzat allowed? It
>> will be aloud if I start.
Does my bum look big in this?
You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
Don Aitken
Starr) wrote:
>In article <12585...@sheol.org>,
>thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) said:
>
>> Yet in Consider Flea-bites, we have a Culture Mind before it is
>> given a ship body, and it certainly seemed to have an identity
>> even then. So how do you figure? Certainly HAL has the greatest
>> enthuseasm and confidence in his ship body and its mission; it's
>> really a very major part of his identity, imo.
>
>Did HAL ever talk about having the greatest enthusiasm about the
>ship? I only remember him reporting on its condition, most
>specifically the radio antenna that was out of alignment.
>
As I recall it (though its been a while) his enthusiasm and
confidence, repeatedly expressed, were for the *mission*, not the
ship. I don't remember him saying anything about the ship, but I'm
sure the script is online if anyone wants to check.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com"
Howard Brazee
I can see many ways for life and mechanical to merge. For instance
there is an actual person flying Stableford's Hooded Swan - but it's
almost like a new being.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Gene Wirchenko
wrote:
[snip]
>A couple I thought of on my own:
>
>Whimsical When Bored
>I Thought YOU Brought The Potato Salad
Well, then, what about:
Watch This Space
Unjustified Label
Plausible Deniability
(on a ship that is armed but does not appear to be)
Diplomatic Incident
Imitation Mudball
(for a very large GSV)
Built by Lowest Bidder
There Does Not Seem to Be Nearly Enough Space in Your Ship
Name Field, Portmaster
Delimited by Blanks
("I'm surrounded by idiots!")
Home, Sweet Home
Flat Earth Society
(for a flat GSV)
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
David DeLaney
> There Does Not Seem to Be Nearly Enough Space in Your Ship
>Name Field, Portmaster
> Delimited by Blanks
> ("I'm surrounded by idiots!")
These two are distant descendants of little Bobby Tables, aren't they?
Dave "Has Eaten The Rainbow" DeLaney
Gene Wirchenko
DeLaney) wrote:
>Gene Wirchenko <ge...@ocis.net> wrote:
>> There Does Not Seem to Be Nearly Enough Space in Your Ship
>>Name Field, Portmaster
>> Delimited by Blanks
>> ("I'm surrounded by idiots!")
>
>These two are distant descendants of little Bobby Tables, aren't they?
Only the first one.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Mark Zenier
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <he920...@enews6.newsguy.com>,
>mze...@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) said:
>
>> It seems like a homage to '60s New Wave head trips, so possible
>> readers be aware. And a satire/parody of a lot of the standard
>> space opera tropes. A lot of funny little bits. Even one where
>> the author makes fun of the cover of "Take Back Plenty". (The
>> cover of "Take Back Plenty" portrayed Tabitha, whose ancestry was
>> pretty much global, as a blond with bazoom!s in a skin tight
>> silver jumpsuit. One of the later covers is more accurate).
>
>You mean this?
>
><http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/0380763958>
>
>Bazoom!s, check, skintight silver jumpsuit, check, blond, not
>so much.
Whoa. Same body, different head. Major "The Ministry of Truth has been
busy here" moment. Either my mind is really gone, or they revised the
cover for a later printing. (It kind of blows the joke from the later
book, with this cover being a bit closer to the character's description).
>Then again, the ISFDB lists three different cover artists for
>different editions, so maybe you're thinking of another one.
I suspect the amazon cover dates from a reissue, when one of the later
books came out. I haven't found any other version on the web, yet.
Anybody have an early printing of the Avon edition, or the SFBC edition
from June '92 (I think), or even an SFBC flyer for that month, or a
forthcoming book ad in Locus for AvoNova's January 1992 (?) books.
Peter Huebner
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/g/colin-greenland/
shows a completely different cover, alas, it's not the one you were
looking for either.
f.w.i.w. -P.
chr...@balder.sabir.com
I've got the AvoNova January 1992 edition, first printing, and she has
black hair (or at least, very non-blond) on it.
Chris
W. Citoan
> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) said:
>
> >> Culture ships are not simply a computer or robot controlling a
> >> ship, but a being, essentially constituted as a ship. They like
> >> being ships. They identify with being ships. They are ships.
> >
> > Again, how do you draw the distinction?
> > Or is it just one of those "I know it when I see it" things?
>
> Pretty much the latter, I think. One test is whether the AI
> identified with or showed any particular attachment to the vessel,
> to the point of not wanting to -- or not ever considering the
> possibility of -- moving or installing somewhere else. As I said,
> I don't recall that being the case with HAL, or Dora.
I meant quite a few humans that not have showed any attachment to their
bodies and would jump at the chance to move to another vessel.
- W. Citoan
--
I will not be ashamed to defend a friend; neither will I hid myself from
him.
-- Ecclesiasticus (Book of Sirach)
Joseph Nebus
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Not a novel, but James Blish's 'Solar Plexus', from about=
> 1940
>> or so, is an early example of a brain-in-a-spaceship story. =A0It doesn't
>> do enough neat stuff with the idea, though it does announce a side
>> effect of the brain-in-a-box procedure that I find particularly
>> horrifying, which you have to pretend doesn't exist or the story could
>> not have got started. =A0
>Care to explain what it is?
Sorry to be slow following up; I got a bit buried beneath the
rush of everything the past week.
Anyway, in 'Solar Plexus', and I admit I might have some of this
a bit garbled because it's been ages since I did read it last, one of the
noble members of the Space Patrol is kidnapped by a mysterious spaceship
with remarkably few people on board.
It turns out that a Mad ... Neurologist, I suppose, worked out
a scheme for immortality which involved connecting spaceships right to
the brain and tossing the whole meat stuff overboard. He'd trained his
robot minions to perform the operation, to his good fortune I guess, as
he suffers some kind of medical crisis and has to undergo the process
himself under the robot-surgeon ministrations and now he's the villain
spaceship.
The trouble --- and this strikes me as particularly horrifying ---
is that the procedure wasn't quite good enough, and the Mad Neurologist In
A Spaceship has been left a bit personality-deprived, lacking some key
piece of initiative needed to form new plans.
Anyway, he still wants to Conquer The Solar System, so what is
there to do but to start a new plan of kidnapping members of the Space
Patrol in order to find the missing initative he needs and build his
fleet of Cyborg Spaceships with which he will Rule You All.
This is all good fun, although I'm stuck trying to reconcile the
last two paragraphs. (SPOILER WARNING: the Mad Neurosurgeon does not, in
fact, Conquer the Solar System and Rule You All.)
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert A. Woodward
Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
And here is what I assume is the cover from the 3rd artist
(actually the 1st, because I think this is the 1st edition):
<http://www.amazon.ca/Take-Back-Plenty-Colin-Greenland/dp/images/004
4402651>, but this isn't what Mark Zenier was thinking of either.
--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>
Howard Brazee
<wci...@NOSPAM-yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Pretty much the latter, I think. One test is whether the AI
>> identified with or showed any particular attachment to the vessel,
>> to the point of not wanting to -- or not ever considering the
>> possibility of -- moving or installing somewhere else. As I said,
>> I don't recall that being the case with HAL, or Dora.
>
>I meant quite a few humans that not have showed any attachment to their
>bodies and would jump at the chance to move to another vessel.
I wonder which would be more popular - a tough mechanical body, or a
younger cloned or rented or stolen body?
The rented one intrigues me. I suspect there would be a significant
number of people who would be willing to work hard to have a strong,
healthy body - and rent it out for a year for enough money to be
comfortable for life. Meanwhile the wealthy elite uses his body
for a year then goes on to the next one for a type of immortality.
Mark Zenier
Many thanks.
Ah, well. Looks like my mind is really going.
I found _Seasons of Plenty_ at the local bookstore, I'll see if the
snarky bit about the cover is in that one. (The style is very much
like Moorcock's "Jerry Cornelius" stories, something I didn't recognize
the first time I read it).
Robert Sneddon
Shapero <k...@invalid.net> writes
>If anybody's looking for a list of names Banks has actually used,
>there's one on Wikipedia here: http://preview.tinyurl.com/yttw4j
There was a memorable ship name Ian mentioned in conversation at the
pub once, "Acceptable Levels Of Collateral Damage".
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
Gene Wirchenko
wrote:
[snip]
>A couple I thought of on my own:
>
>Whimsical When Bored
>I Thought YOU Brought The Potato Salad
And some more:
All Systems Gone
(for a tramp streamer analog)
Pretty in Lace
(for a ship with delicate external structures)
Soft Insides
(for a GSV)
No Profit is Exhorbitant
(merchanter)
Sunlover
(intrasystem shuttle)
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
William December Starr
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> said:
> I wonder which would be more popular - a tough mechanical body, or
> a younger cloned or rented or stolen body?
>
> The rented one intrigues me. I suspect there would be a
> significant number of people who would be willing to work hard to
> have a strong, healthy body - and rent it out for a year for
> enough money to be comfortable for life. Meanwhile the wealthy
> elite uses his body for a year then goes on to the next one for a
> type of immortality.
Part of WOKEN FURIES, the third and perhaps final book in Richard
K. Morgan's Takeshi Kovacs series, takes place in a surfing
community<1>. In a small bit, Kovacs met an adult surfing veteran
in the (vat-grown) body of a twelve-year-old. His deal with a
wealthy surfing aficionado was to live in the body for a half-dozen
years and by surfing regularly not just keep it in shape but also
train into its brain a really good set of reflexes for surfing so
that the rich guy could take it over when it reached age eighteen.
(I may be wrong about the ages.)
And there was the original Twilight Zone episode about the young
punk who discovered that he could take on other people's physical
properties and in the process take them away from their original
owners. He got rich by absorbing an elderly millionaire's age,
getting old while the millionaire got young, and then he used a
fraction of that wealth to get young again by buying one year of
youth at a time from a variety of willing sellers. (I think it was
"The Four of Us are Dying" but the episode summary at epquides.com
only talks about the protagonist of that story being able to change
his face to match other people's so maybe I'm wrong.)
*1: On a planet with iirc about .85 Earth gravity and three
significant moons, which added up to _fun_ wave conditions
in places.
-- wds
William December Starr
nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) said:
[ re James Blish's "Solar Plexus" ]
> The trouble --- and this strikes me as particularly horrifying ---
> is that the procedure wasn't quite good enough, and the Mad
> Neurologist In A Spaceship has been left a bit personality-deprived,
> lacking some key piece of initiative needed to form new plans.
>
> Anyway, he still wants to Conquer The Solar System, so what is there
> to do but to start a new plan of kidnapping members of the Space
> Patrol in order to find the missing initative he needs and build his
> fleet of Cyborg Spaceships with which he will Rule You All.
>
> This is all good fun, although I'm stuck trying to reconcile the
> last two paragraphs. (SPOILER WARNING: the Mad Neurosurgeon does
> not, in fact, Conquer the Solar System and Rule You All.)
Or so our Benign Sentient Spaceship overlords would have us believe.
-- wds
Ilya2
> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:23:53 -0800 (PST), Ilya2 <il...@rcn.com> wrote:
> >All spaceships in "Saturn's Children" by Charles Stross are conscious.
>
> >In Rudy Rucker's "Software" there is a conscious spaceship (BEX),
> >conscious hotel (DEX), and conscious chip factory (MEX). To put a
> >twist on things, BEX contains uploaded (against their will) minds of a
> >number of humans. Its stewardesses are robot-remotes, but most of the
> >time they are controlled by these uploaded human personalities.
>
> And I'm currently reading Slanted Jack by van Name, which has a conscious
> space/atmosphere ship (Lobo) and many smaller conscious (and arguing, and
> jabbering) appliances and electronic thingys.
Fry: "Is anything here NOT a robot??"
Nightstand lamp: "I am not a robot! Heh, heh..."
-- Futurama, "Mother's Day" episode
William F. Adams
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:25:05 +0000 (UTC), "W. Citoan"
>
> >> Pretty much the latter, I think. One test is whether the AI
> >> identified with or showed any particular attachment to the vessel,
> >> to the point of not wanting to -- or not ever considering the
> >> possibility of -- moving or installing somewhere else. As I said,
> >> I don't recall that being the case with HAL, or Dora.
>
> >I meant quite a few humans that not have showed any attachment to their
> >bodies and would jump at the chance to move to another vessel.
>
> I wonder which would be more popular - a tough mechanical body, or a
> younger cloned or rented or stolen body?
>
> The rented one intrigues me. I suspect there would be a significant
> number of people who would be willing to work hard to have a strong,
> healthy body - and rent it out for a year for enough money to be
> comfortable for life. Meanwhile the wealthy elite uses his body
> for a year then goes on to the next one for a type of immortality.
RIchard Morgan's _Altered Carbon_ and other Takeshi Kovacs books go
into this sort of thing at great length.
William
Ilya2
> Fry: "Is anything here NOT a robot??"
> Nightstand lamp: "I am not a robot! Heh, heh..."
>
> -- Futurama, "Mother's Day" episode
Not sure if Charles Stross meant it that way, but I see a lot of
Futurama in "Saturn's Children"