YASID: Cambride, Mars

[Dirk van den Boom]

From someone in a German newsgroup, looking for a short story he only
vaguely remembers. It takes place on Mars and involved is a Cambridge
university which directly continues the tradition of the two Cambridge
universities in Britain and the US.

Rings any bells?

--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

There's no Cambridge University in the U.S., and if you mean Harvard,
that's not affiliated with Cambridge University, and it's not the only
university in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

That said, no, it rings no bells; sorry.


--
Now available on Amazon or B&N: One-Eyed Jack.
Greg Kraft could see ghosts. That didn't mean he could stop them...

[Joseph Nebus]

In <jvh11r$omj$1...@dont-email.me> Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> writes:

>On 2012-08-03 07:57:10 -0400, Dirk van den Boom said:

>> From someone in a German newsgroup, looking for a short story he only
>> vaguely remembers. It takes place on Mars and involved is a Cambridge
>> university which directly continues the tradition of the two Cambridge
>> universities in Britain and the US.
>>
>> Rings any bells?

>There's no Cambridge University in the U.S., and if you mean Harvard,
>that's not affiliated with Cambridge University, and it's not the only
>university in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

>That said, no, it rings no bells; sorry.

I've got no ideas about the original story. I'm curious if there
are any recollections about when the story was read, or when it might have
originally appeared.

I did note that a recent episode of _The Simpsons Which Is Still
Going On, Apparently_ mentioned in the future a ``Miami of Ohio of Pluto'',
which tickled me as my Dearly Beloved went to Miami of Ohio where, at least
among those which school spirit [1], they're still upset about having to
call themselves that since Ohio's Miami was first.

[1] A foreign concept to me. I went to Rutgers and then
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.

--
http://nebusresearch.wordpress.com/ Joseph Nebus
Current Entry: Reading the Comics, July 28, 2012 http://wp.me/p1RYhY-hO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On 2012-08-03 13:58:51 -0400, Joseph Nebus said:

> I did note that a recent episode of _The Simpsons Which Is Still
> Going On, Apparently_ mentioned in the future a ``Miami of Ohio of Pluto'',
> which tickled me as my Dearly Beloved went to Miami of Ohio where, at least
> among those which school spirit [1], they're still upset about having to
> call themselves that since Ohio's Miami was first.
>
> [1] A foreign concept to me. I went to Rutgers and then
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.

I've met Rutgers students who had school spirit. It's possible.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <jvh3gr$c2p$3...@reader1.panix.com>,

Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
>In <jvh11r$omj$1...@dont-email.me> Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> writes:
>
>>On 2012-08-03 07:57:10 -0400, Dirk van den Boom said:
>
>>> From someone in a German newsgroup, looking for a short story he only
>>> vaguely remembers. It takes place on Mars and involved is a Cambridge
>>> university which directly continues the tradition of the two Cambridge
>>> universities in Britain and the US.
>>>
>>> Rings any bells?
>
>>There's no Cambridge University in the U.S., and if you mean Harvard,
>>that's not affiliated with Cambridge University, and it's not the only
>>university in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
>
>>That said, no, it rings no bells; sorry.
>
> I've got no ideas about the original story. I'm curious if there
>are any recollections about when the story was read, or when it might have
>originally appeared.
>
> I did note that a recent episode of _The Simpsons Which Is Still
>Going On, Apparently_ mentioned in the future a ``Miami of Ohio of Pluto'',
>which tickled me as my Dearly Beloved went to Miami of Ohio where, at least
>among those which school spirit [1], they're still upset about having to
>call themselves that since Ohio's Miami was first.
>

Tell it to USC.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <a82ik...@mid.individual.net>,

I'm missing something here. What's the tertium quid?

(Or to translate, what do Miami of Ohio, Miami FL, and USC have
in common?)

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <M86z8...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <a82ik...@mid.individual.net>, Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>In article <jvh3gr$c2p$3...@reader1.panix.com>, Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
>>>In <jvh11r$omj$1...@dont-email.me> Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> writes:

>>>>There's no Cambridge University in the U.S., and if you mean Harvard,
>>>>that's not affiliated with Cambridge University, and it's not the only
>>>>university in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
>>>
>>>>That said, no, it rings no bells; sorry.
>>>
>>> I've got no ideas about the original story. I'm curious if there
>>>are any recollections about when the story was read, or when it might have
>>>originally appeared.
>>>
>>> I did note that a recent episode of _The Simpsons Which Is Still
>>>Going On, Apparently_ mentioned in the future a ``Miami of Ohio of Pluto'',
>>>which tickled me as my Dearly Beloved went to Miami of Ohio where, at least
>>>among those which school spirit [1], they're still upset about having to
>>>call themselves that since Ohio's Miami was first.
>>
>>Tell it to USC.
>
>I'm missing something here. What's the tertium quid?
>
>(Or to translate, what do Miami of Ohio, Miami FL, and USC have
>in common?)

Well, the University of South Carolina has been getting harassed by
some school on the West Coast, with claims that the University of
South Carolina shouldn't be allowed to use its initials. Never mind
that it was founded in 1801, which gives it a tiny bit of precedence
over the other guy.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.

[Anthony Nance]

I'm just waitin' for Universedade de Santiago de Compostela[1]
to get involved.

Tony
[1] est. 1495

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Huh, there's a University in South Carolina? Whoda thunk it?

"USC" has been out west in my head all my life, but then both my parents
came from California at one level (my father via England and Canada).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <M86z8...@kithrup.com>,

The fact that someone thinks 1880 comes before 1801?

[Kip Williams]

Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:

> I've met Rutgers students who had school spirit. It's possible.

Quincy Magoo is an old Rutgers man.


Kip W
rasfw

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <jvh5nt$khd$1...@dont-email.me>,

Dear me.

I know one can't copyright a book or story title. Can one copyright a
set of initials? I suspect not, since the Society for Creative
Anachronism has had to explain from time to time that no, we are
not the Satanist Church of America*, nor yet the Student Committee
for the Arts, nor .....

_____
* Our then- administrative officer investigate them once, just to
find out what they were about. She reported, "It's just est,
with Satan tossed in to make it sound more interesting."

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <jvh6j8$nqp$2...@dont-email.me>,

Oh, I hope they do.

In the meantime, I think the one in California may have a bit
more money to spend on lawyers than the one in South Carolina,
since George Lucas is an alumnus of the former and has given it
various endowments.

[Scott Lurndal]

There's a reason they call it the University of Spoiled Children.

scott

[Kay Shapero]

In article <j3XSr.181299$s91....@news.usenetserver.com>,
sc...@slp53.sl.home says...

> >
> >In the meantime, I think the one in California may have a bit
> >more money to spend on lawyers than the one in South Carolina,
> >since George Lucas is an alumnus of the former and has given it
> >various endowments.
>
> There's a reason they call it the University of Spoiled Children.
>

I know it was possible to get a decent education there in the late '60s,
early '70s because I did, but I have no idea what it's like now other
than that all those buildings they started whilst I was there have been
built and more beside.

--
Kay Shapero
http://www.kayshapero.net
Address munged, to email use kay at the above domain (everything after
the www.)

[Howard Brazee]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 18:36:45 +0000 (UTC), mste...@walkabout.empros.com
(Michael Stemper) wrote:

>Well, the University of South Carolina has been getting harassed by
>some school on the West Coast, with claims that the University of
>South Carolina shouldn't be allowed to use its initials. Never mind
>that it was founded in 1801, which gives it a tiny bit of precedence
>over the other guy.

Well, we have a UNC in Northern Colorado.

I find it interesting that University of Denver is "DU", and
University of Colorado is "CU".

When I moved to Connecticut, I wondered why so many people were
talking about going to college in Yukon...

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[Joseph Nebus]

Yeah, well, so were Osgood Conklin (Our Miss Brooks's principal
antagonist) and Charles (in Charge).

[Quadibloc]

On Aug 3, 11:16 am, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:

> There's no Cambridge University in the U.S., and if you mean Harvard,
> that's not affiliated with Cambridge University, and it's not the only
> university in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

I'm thinking it could be the University of Chicago that is being
thought of; something about the Encyclopedia Britannica indicates a
connection between it and Cambridge, it vaguely seems to me.

John Savard

[Christian Weisgerber]

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:

> >Well, the University of South Carolina has been getting harassed by
> >some school on the West Coast, with claims that the University of
> >South Carolina shouldn't be allowed to use its initials.
>

> I know one can't copyright a book or story title. Can one copyright a
> set of initials?

You can trademark it. "USC" is registered as USPTO trademark 75116291
for educational services by the University of Southern California.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On 2012-08-03 18:57:59 -0400, Howard Brazee said:

> On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 18:36:45 +0000 (UTC), mste...@walkabout.empros.com
> (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>
>> Well, the University of South Carolina has been getting harassed by
>> some school on the West Coast, with claims that the University of
>> South Carolina shouldn't be allowed to use its initials. Never mind
>> that it was founded in 1801, which gives it a tiny bit of precedence
>> over the other guy.
>
> Well, we have a UNC in Northern Colorado.
>
> I find it interesting that University of Denver is "DU", and
> University of Colorado is "CU".
>
> When I moved to Connecticut, I wondered why so many people were
> talking about going to college in Yukon...

And of course, U. Conn's teams are the Huskies because of that pun.

[Dan Tilque]

There's also the case of the World Wildlife Fund suing the World
Wrestling Federation over the initials WWF. The latter now uses WWE as
it's acronym.

--
Dan Tilque

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <jvidrc$2pt$1...@dont-email.me>,

I don't know about those California poseur's trademark, but the real
USC uses those letters extensively, though when we did have to play them,
our scoreboard was "USCEAST".

[Greg Goss]

The lawsuit was actually launched by the entertainment guys. The
successful defense by the panda guys was "we had it first" and the
plaintiff had to find a new trademark.

Something similar happened with the copyright to dBase. dBase sued
Foxbase for infringement, and Foxbase successfully claimed that dBase
had been public domain all along. So suddenly all dBase versions up
to 3+ became no-copyright.

Sometimes it's a bad idea to sue some people.
--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.

[Kip Williams]

I find it interesting that MAD defended Alfred E. Neuman successfully
against suits saying they'd stolen the famous face by showing a ton of
examples of its ancient use that showed it was public domain, and that
now they sue anybody who gets too close to it (successfully).


Kip W
rasfw

[Carl Dershem]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) typed in
news:M8754...@kithrup.com:

> I know one can't copyright a book or story title. Can one
copyright a
> set of initials? I suspect not, since the Society for Creative
> Anachronism has had to explain from time to time that no, we are
> not the Satanist Church of America*, nor yet the Student
Committee
> for the Arts, nor .....
>
> _____
> * Our then- administrative officer investigate them once, just
to
> find out what they were about. She reported, "It's just est,
> with Satan tossed in to make it sound more interesting."
>

Baing somewhat familiar with est, I find the difference to be
minimal.

But I get grumpy.

cd

[Robert Carnegie]

On Saturday, August 4, 2012 12:17:19 PM UTC+1, Greg Goss wrote:
> Something similar happened with the copyright to dBase. dBase sued
> Foxbase for infringement, and Foxbase successfully claimed that dBase
> had been public domain all along. So suddenly all dBase versions up
> to 3+ became no-copyright.

Wikipedia doesn't quite say that. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBase>
"In 1988 Ashton-Tate filed suit against Fox Software and Santa Cruz Operation
(SCO) for copying dBase's "structure and sequence" in FoxBase+. In December 1990,
U.S. District judge Terry Hatter, Jr. dismissed Ashton-Tate's lawsuit and
invalidated Ashton-Tate's copyrights for not disclosing that dBase had been
based, in part, on the public domain JPLDIS."

I think they're saying not that "dBase's structure and sequence" was entirely
copied from JPLDIS, but that by not acknowledging JPLDIS, Ashton-Tate forfeited
the right to claim and enforce copyright - on the "structure and sequence"
if not the entire actual software, which I seem to remember, emphasised that
you didn't own it, you just bought the right to use it for fifty years - no more.

[Greg Goss]

The author of dBase was writing database software at his day job for
NASA. In the evenings, he wrote essentially the same software for
microcomputers, then sold that to Ashton (and his parrot Tate).
Because NASA's charter says that everything they develop is public
domain, his day-job software was public domain. The heart of the
case, as raised by Fox, was that the software he wrote at home was
essentially the same public-domain product.

Version 4 was a rewrite from scratch (according to the judge's
rulings). Fortunately for Ashton-Tate, version 4 was already out and
moderately successful when all the previous versions fell off the
shelf.

Or so I remember from editorials at that time.

[Thomas Womack]

B1;2cIn article <a81sko...@mid.individual.net>,

Dirk van den Boom <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:
> From someone in a German newsgroup, looking for a short story he only
>vaguely remembers. It takes place on Mars and involved is a Cambridge
>university which directly continues the tradition of the two Cambridge
>universities in Britain and the US.

It's a Clarke short story with an aside about one of the characters
having his degree from 'the university in Cambridge, Mars - not the
older Cambridge, Mass or the even older Cambridge, England'.

(Ah, not a short, it's _The Songs of Distant Earth_; found a dodgy PDF:

"Oh, I’ve lost count of my various jobs, Mirissa-most of them weren’t
very important, anyway. The one I held longest was professor of
political science in Cambridge, Mars. And you can’t imagine the
confusion that caused, because there was an older university at a
place called Cambridge, Mass.-and a still older one in Cambridge,
England."

Tom

[Chris]

On Aug 3, 2:36 pm, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper)
wrote:
> In article <M86z8C.1...@kithrup.com>, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <a82ikeFj...@mid.individual.net>, Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
> >>In article <jvh3gr$c2...@reader1.panix.com>, Joseph Nebus <nebu...@-rpi-.edu> wrote:

Huh. Tell me about it. As a graduate of Oregon State University, I
have to stand in line behind both Ohio State and Oklahoma State.

Chris

[Robert Carnegie]

On Sunday, August 5, 2012 1:13:09 AM UTC+1, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Saturday, August 4, 2012 12:17:19 PM UTC+1, Greg Goss wrote:
>
> > Something similar happened with the copyright to dBase. dBase sued
> > Foxbase for infringement, and Foxbase successfully claimed that dBase
> > had been public domain all along. So suddenly all dBase versions up
> > to 3+ became no-copyright.
>
> Wikipedia doesn't quite say that. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBase>

And I found something in a mailing list archive from 1992:
<http://www3.wcl.american.edu/cni/9209/0275.html>
"The Judge reversed himself the next week on this issue."

It's so confusing!

[Tim McDaniel]

In article <jvib1q$nsf$1...@dont-email.me>,

Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>On 2012-08-03 18:57:59 -0400, Howard Brazee said:
>> I find it interesting that University of Denver is "DU", and
>> University of Colorado is "CU".
>>
>> When I moved to Connecticut, I wondered why so many people were
>> talking about going to college in Yukon...
>
>And of course, U. Conn's teams are the Huskies because of that pun.

Great story, but Wikipedia denies it, based on UConn's own page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Huskies

Nickname

The university's teams are nicknamed "Huskies", a name adopted in
1934 after the school's name changed from Connecticut Agricultural
College to Connecticut State College in 1933; before then, the
teams were referred to as the Aggies.[2] Though there is a
homophonic relationship between "UConn" and the Yukon, where
Huskies are native, the "Huskies" nickname predates the school's
1939 name change to the University of Connecticut; the first
recorded use of "UConn" (as "U-Conn", both separately and with
"Huskies") was later in 1939.[3]

UConn's women's teams are not known as the "Lady Huskies," but
simply as "UConn Huskies," the same as the men's team.

(Yay! on that last paragraph!)

[2] The UConn Story ? History of the University of Connecticut
http://www.uconn.edu/history/traditions
[3] A Piece of UConn History/UConn Husky Fight Song ? April 5,
1999
http://www.advance.uconn.edu/1999/990405/040599hs.htm

--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On 2012-08-05 21:40:21 -0400, Tim McDaniel said:

> In article <jvib1q$nsf$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> On 2012-08-03 18:57:59 -0400, Howard Brazee said:
>>> I find it interesting that University of Denver is "DU", and
>>> University of Colorado is "CU".
>>>
>>> When I moved to Connecticut, I wondered why so many people were
>>> talking about going to college in Yukon...
>>
>> And of course, U. Conn's teams are the Huskies because of that pun.
>
> Great story, but Wikipedia denies it, based on UConn's own page:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Huskies
>
> Nickname
>
> The university's teams are nicknamed "Huskies", a name adopted in
> 1934 after the school's name changed from Connecticut Agricultural
> College to Connecticut State College in 1933; before then, the
> teams were referred to as the Aggies.[2] Though there is a
> homophonic relationship between "UConn" and the Yukon, where
> Huskies are native, the "Huskies" nickname predates the school's
> 1939 name change to the University of Connecticut; the first
> recorded use of "UConn" (as "U-Conn", both separately and with
> "Huskies") was later in 1939.[3]

I'll be damned. One of my sisters got her doctorate from U. Conn., and
we always thought the Huskies name came from the pun.

Thank you for the correction.

> UConn's women's teams are not known as the "Lady Huskies," but
> simply as "UConn Huskies," the same as the men's team.

We knew THAT, anyway.

> (Yay! on that last paragraph!)
>
> [2] The UConn Story ? History of the University of Connecticut
> http://www.uconn.edu/history/traditions
> [3] A Piece of UConn History/UConn Husky Fight Song ? April 5,
> 1999
> http://www.advance.uconn.edu/1999/990405/040599hs.htm


--

[Robert Carnegie]

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Huskies>
>
> Nickname
>
> The university's teams are nicknamed "Huskies", a name adopted in 1934
> after the school's name changed from Connecticut Agricultural College to
> Connecticut State College in 1933; before then, the teams were referred
> to as the Aggies.[2] Though there is a homophonic relationship between
> "UConn" and the Yukon, where Huskies are native, the "Huskies" nickname
> predates the school's 1939 name change to the University of Connecticut;
> the first recorded use of "UConn" (as "U-Conn", both separately and
> with "Huskies") was later in 1939.[3]

I'll guess that in 1934 they were already thinking about becoming
"the University of Connecticut", which, I assume, takes a while -
if the name of "university" means and meant something more than
"what the school calls itself". I mean, you get those screwy
religious ones, and the mail order diplomas.

And presumably the process includes a "sanity check" on predictable
permutations of the institution's name. If that comes out with
something embarrassing, you'd pick a different name, I guess.

> UConn's women's teams are not known as the "Lady Huskies," but
> simply as "UConn Huskies," the same as the men's team. (Yay! on
> that last paragraph!) [2]

How can you tell them apart, through the fur?

[Brian M. Scott]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 17:58:51 +0000 (UTC), Joseph Nebus
<nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote in
<news:jvh3gr$c2p$3...@reader1.panix.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> I did note that a recent episode of _The Simpsons Which Is
> Still Going On, Apparently_ mentioned in the future a
> ``Miami of Ohio of Pluto'', which tickled me as my Dearly
> Beloved went to Miami of Ohio where, at least among those
> which school spirit [1], they're still upset about having
> to call themselves that since Ohio's Miami was first.

You forgot to mention the best part: Miami University is
located in Oxford, Ohio! (Good school -- one of the best
public universities around.)

> [1] A foreign concept to me. I went to Rutgers and then
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.

Not *entirely* foreign to me, but my alma mater is probably
the only school in the country whose cheer is 'Chirp!'.
(More memorably, it's the home of the discovery that 47
rules the universe.)

Brian

[Greg Goss]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

>And presumably the process includes a "sanity check" on predictable
>permutations of the institution's name. If that comes out with
>something embarrassing, you'd pick a different name, I guess.

The story goes that Camosun College's first name (College of Juan de
Fuca) was still in place up to four months before opening, when the
"Fuca U" T-shirts started appearing and the board panicked.

The Strait of Juan de Fuca is a major geographical feature near there.
I've never looked up what Camosun refers to.

But college students are a lot better at finding these things than
your Sanity Check committee.

[Tim McDaniel]

In article <f220bad5-c795-4d98...@googlegroups.com>,

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>And presumably the process includes a "sanity check" on predictable
>permutations of the institution's name. If that comes out with
>something embarrassing, you'd pick a different name, I guess.

Ha. Nixon's Committee for the Re-Election of the President was
supposed to be abbreviated CRP. It was more commonly called CREEP.

Did the merger between the Canadian Alliance Party (ne Reform Party)
and Progressive Conservative officially get called the
Conservative-Reform Alliance Party at any point? I've heard that
story, but Wikipedia knoweth it not.

The University of North Texas is abbreviated UNT. It has a student
radio station. The rule for radio call signs would require
a leading K. Its call sign is KNTU.

--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com

[Joseph Nebus]

In <rRk*Nh...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Thomas Womack <two...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

>B1;2cIn article <a81sko...@mid.individual.net>,
>Dirk van den Boom <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:
>> From someone in a German newsgroup, looking for a short story he only
>>vaguely remembers. It takes place on Mars and involved is a Cambridge
>>university which directly continues the tradition of the two Cambridge
>>universities in Britain and the US.

>It's a Clarke short story with an aside about one of the characters
>having his degree from 'the university in Cambridge, Mars - not the
>older Cambridge, Mass or the even older Cambridge, England'.

>(Ah, not a short, it's _The Songs of Distant Earth_; found a dodgy PDF:

You know, with the answer in hand, it somehow feels obvious that
it would be Clarke, at least, even if the title might be anything in his
opus. That sort of playful quirks-of-history-induced-ambiguity feels
like one of his fingerprints.

--
http://nebusresearch.wordpress.com/ Joseph Nebus

Current Entry: Playing With Tiles http://wp.me/p1RYhY-hX
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Greg Goss]

tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) wrote:

>In article <f220bad5-c795-4d98...@googlegroups.com>,
>Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>And presumably the process includes a "sanity check" on predictable
>>permutations of the institution's name. If that comes out with
>>something embarrassing, you'd pick a different name, I guess.
>
>Ha. Nixon's Committee for the Re-Election of the President was
>supposed to be abbreviated CRP. It was more commonly called CREEP.
>
>Did the merger between the Canadian Alliance Party (ne Reform Party)
>and Progressive Conservative officially get called the
>Conservative-Reform Alliance Party at any point? I've heard that
>story, but Wikipedia knoweth it not.

Those of us voting Liberal at the time used that acronym.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Monday, August 6, 2012 5:45:14 PM UTC+1, Tim McDaniel wrote:
> In article <f220bad5-c795-4d98...@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >And presumably the process includes a "sanity check" on predictable
> >permutations of the institution's name. If that comes out with
> >something embarrassing, you'd pick a different name, I guess.
>
> Ha. Nixon's Committee for the Re-Election of the President was
> supposed to be abbreviated CRP. It was more commonly called CREEP.

Hmm. If someone told me that it was illegal that such a body even existed,
were they confused?

(As opposed to its specific crimes and/or the president's relationship with it.)

Since in that case they could just as well have called it the Ford Edsel, but
secretly?

[Kay Shapero]

In article <jvosap$4gb$1...@reader1.panix.com>, tm...@panix.com says...

>

>
> The University of North Texas is abbreviated UNT. It has a student
> radio station. The rule for radio call signs would require
> a leading K. Its call sign is KNTU.

My car license plate begins with 4CKU (Fork You), which has always
amused my daughter. And me, for that matter. :) It's NOT
personalized...

[Kay Shapero]

In article <1fqdejyzb4a25$.lk4btgng...@40tude.net>,
b.s...@csuohio.edu says...

>

>
> Not *entirely* foreign to me, but my alma mater is probably
> the only school in the country whose cheer is 'Chirp!'.
> (More memorably, it's the home of the discovery that 47
> rules the universe.)
>

Which one is that? The only Chirp I know is the U of Louisville acronym
for Children's Health & Illness Recovery Program. Of course there's the
UC Irvine cry of Zot!, their symbol being the Anteater from the BC comic
strip by Johnny Hart.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On 2012-08-06 20:45:02 -0400, Robert Carnegie said:

> On Monday, August 6, 2012 5:45:14 PM UTC+1, Tim McDaniel wrote:
>> In article <f220bad5-c795-4d98...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>> And presumably the process includes a "sanity check" on predictable
>>> permutations of the institution's name. If that comes out with
>>> something embarrassing, you'd pick a different name, I guess.
>>
>> Ha. Nixon's Committee for the Re-Election of the President was
>> supposed to be abbreviated CRP. It was more commonly called CREEP.

I believe the exact name was Committee to Re-Elect the President,
rather than "for the Re-Election of."

> Hmm. If someone told me that it was illegal that such a body even existed,
> were they confused?

Yes.

> (As opposed to its specific crimes and/or the president's relationship
> with it.)
>
> Since in that case they could just as well have called it the Ford Edsel, but
> secretly?

[Brian M. Scott]

On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 20:03:24 -0700, Kay Shapero
<k...@invalid.net> wrote in
<news:MPG.2a8a24f0f...@news.eternal-september.org>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

> In article <1fqdejyzb4a25$.lk4btgng...@40tude.net>,
> b.s...@csuohio.edu says...

>> Not *entirely* foreign to me, but my alma mater is probably
>> the only school in the country whose cheer is 'Chirp!'.
>> (More memorably, it's the home of the discovery that 47
>> rules the universe.)

> Which one is that?

Pomona. The mascot is Cecil Sagehen. The cheer is properly
accompanied by an upraised forearm with a downturned hand
with the fingers bunched, as if one were making a bird's
head for a shadow play.

Nowadays Pomona and Pitzer field joint teams, and the cheer
'Let's go P-P!' has also been used.

[...]

Brian

[James Nicoll]

In article <jvosap$4gb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <f220bad5-c795-4d98...@googlegroups.com>,
>Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>And presumably the process includes a "sanity check" on predictable
>>permutations of the institution's name. If that comes out with
>>something embarrassing, you'd pick a different name, I guess.
>
>Ha. Nixon's Committee for the Re-Election of the President was
>supposed to be abbreviated CRP. It was more commonly called CREEP.
>
>Did the merger between the Canadian Alliance Party (ne Reform Party)
>and Progressive Conservative officially get called the
>Conservative-Reform Alliance Party at any point? I've heard that
>story, but Wikipedia knoweth it not.

?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Alliance

"In 2000, following the second of the two United Alternative conventions,
the party voted to dissolve in favour of a new party: the "Canadian
Conservative Reform Alliance", a declaration of policy and a new constitution.
[...]
Media covering the convention quickly pointed out that if one added the
word "Party" to the end of the party's name, the resulting initials were
"CCRAP"[1] (humorously pronounced "see-crap" or just "crap") even though it,
like the [BQ], didn't actually have the word party in its name. One day
later, the party changed its official name to the Canadian Reform Conservative
Alliance,[1] but was almost always called simply "the Canadian Alliance"
or "the Alliance". However, the "CCRAP" nickname was still used by its
opponents."

The current name shares initials with the much older Communist Party of
Canada, which means when using the initials one then has to specific
which subversive organization one is referring to, the left wing monsters
or the right wing monsters.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)

[Walter Bushell]

In article <jvosap$4gb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) wrote:

> The University of North Texas is abbreviated UNT. It has a student
> radio station. The rule for radio call signs would require
> a leading K. Its call sign is KNTU.

Why that I wonder?

--
This space unintentionally left blank.

[Greg Goss]

jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

>The current name shares initials with the much older Communist Party of
>Canada, which means when using the initials one then has to specific
>which subversive organization one is referring to, the left wing monsters
>or the right wing monsters.

The need to hang onto the rather lefty enclave of a third of the
country's population in "the golden horseshoe" means that the
right-wing monsters have to pretend to be sane.

I hated the far-right rhetoric that they used in the first two wins,
but their actual governing is pretty much what the other side would
have done, with rather minor glitches like the G20 fiasco or the
fighter jets.

My big objection to them is not their rightyness, but their leader's
casual Romney-esque contempt for the truth.

[Kay Shapero]

In article <1y2ohttmaem41.1...@40tude.net>,
b.s...@csuohio.edu says...

>
> Pomona. The mascot is Cecil Sagehen. The cheer is properly
> accompanied by an upraised forearm with a downturned hand
> with the fingers bunched, as if one were making a bird's
> head for a shadow play.
>
> Nowadays Pomona and Pitzer field joint teams, and the cheer
> 'Let's go P-P!' has also been used.
>

Grin... I like.

[Quadibloc]

On Aug 8, 4:59 pm, Kay Shapero <k...@invalid.net> wrote:
> In article <1y2ohttmaem41.1k5g2a1760wfs....@40tude.net>,
> b.sc...@csuohio.edu says...

> > Nowadays Pomona and Pitzer field joint teams, and the cheer
> > 'Let's go P-P!' has also been used.
>
> Grin...  I like.

And then there's the Pochonbo Electronic Ensemble, which enjoyed a
brief moment of international fame when Kim Jong-Un's wife was
misidentified as one of his old flames instead.

John Savard

[Anthony Nance]

Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <jvosap$4gb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) wrote:
>
>> The University of North Texas is abbreviated UNT. It has a student
>> radio station. The rule for radio call signs would require
>> a leading K. Its call sign is KNTU.
>
> Why that I wonder?

'Cause UNT with a K in front of it leads to interesting
radio ad campaigns, and NTU is close enough to UNT to
make for a clunky substitute?

Tony

[Tim McDaniel]

In article <k00c4k$qdr$2...@dont-email.me>,

Specifically,
University of North Texas <-> North Texas University.
I can't say for sure that "A of B" <-> "B(adjectivally) A" is always
permitted in English, but it's at least frequent.

Or why "K" for radio stations? That would drop us down a rabbit-hole
of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.

--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com

[Walter Bushell]

In article <k00c4k$qdr$2...@dont-email.me>,

But think of the attention you'd get for station breaks. And don't you
want you advertising to be interesting. But I suppose Radio KUNT would
have not been allowed by the Feds, perhaps they would have suggested
WUNT?

You got that to a RCH.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <k00pvb$d9g$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

For reasons obscure to me, the call letters of *approximately* all
radio stations in the US east of the Mississippi begin with W, and
all stations to the west, with a K. There are a couple of exceptions
but I don't remember what they are.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <proto-AAB8DC....@news.panix.com>,

Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <k00c4k$qdr$2...@dont-email.me>,
> na...@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) wrote:
>
>> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>> > In article <jvosap$4gb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>> > tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) wrote:
>> >
>> >> The University of North Texas is abbreviated UNT. It has a student
>> >> radio station. The rule for radio call signs would require
>> >> a leading K. Its call sign is KNTU.
>> >
>> > Why that I wonder?
>>
>> 'Cause UNT with a K in front of it leads to interesting
>> radio ad campaigns, and NTU is close enough to UNT to
>> make for a clunky substitute?
>>
>> Tony
>
>But think of the attention you'd get for station breaks. And don't you
>want you advertising to be interesting. But I suppose Radio KUNT would
>have not been allowed by the Feds, perhaps they would have suggested
>WUNT?

Not in Texas they wouldn't; see my other post about dividing by the
Mississippi.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <M8HzJ...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <k00pvb$d9g$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>>In article <k00c4k$qdr$2...@dont-email.me>, Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>>Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <jvosap$4gb$1...@reader1.panix.com>, tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) wrote:

>>>>> The University of North Texas is abbreviated UNT. It has a student
>>>>> radio station. The rule for radio call signs would require
>>>>> a leading K. Its call sign is KNTU.
>>>>
>>>> Why that I wonder?
>>>
>>>'Cause UNT with a K in front of it leads to interesting
>>>radio ad campaigns, and NTU is close enough to UNT to
>>>make for a clunky substitute?
>>
>>Specifically,
>>University of North Texas <-> North Texas University.
>>I can't say for sure that "A of B" <-> "B(adjectivally) A" is always
>>permitted in English, but it's at least frequent.
>>
>>Or why "K" for radio stations? That would drop us down a rabbit-hole
>>of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.

Is "a rabbit-hole of neepery" anything like "a long, rambling, and
completely unrelated to SF discussion"?

>For reasons obscure to me, the call letters of *approximately* all
>radio stations in the US east of the Mississippi begin with W, and
>all stations to the west, with a K. There are a couple of exceptions
>but I don't remember what they are.

The Twin Cities area, for starters. Here, you can find WCCO west of
the Mississippi and KSTP east of it.

[Kip Williams]

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <proto-AAB8DC....@news.panix.com>,
> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:

>> But think of the attention you'd get for station breaks. And don't you
>> want you advertising to be interesting. But I suppose Radio KUNT would
>> have not been allowed by the Feds, perhaps they would have suggested
>> WUNT?
>
> Not in Texas they wouldn't; see my other post about dividing by the
> Mississippi.

See http://earlyradiohistory.us/kwtrivia.htm for a thrilling list of
exceptions and reasons why.

I seem to recall my old _North American Radio-TV Station Guide_
(published by the Radio Shack folks around 1970) saying that two other
initial letters were reserved for the US. One of them was N (which I
found confirmed at Wikipedia) and the other, I could not remember for
the life of me just now. Wikipedia indicates it's A (or maybe AA), but
I'm sure that wasn't the one I read.


Kip W
rasfw

[Butch Malahide]

On Aug 9, 12:06 pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
> For reasons obscure to me, the call letters of *approximately* all
> radio stations in the US east of the Mississippi begin with W, and
> all stations to the west, with a K.  There are a couple of exceptions
> but I don't remember what they are.

One of them is kind of easy to remember. I'll let you try and guess
which town in Texas has radio station WACO.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <k00rqk$2om$1...@dont-email.me>,

Thanks, that's interesting. Both cities are right ON the river,
I gather?

[Michael Stemper]

In article <ouSUr.6819$RL6....@newsfe13.iad>, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> writes:
>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <proto-AAB8DC....@news.panix.com>, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:

>>> But think of the attention you'd get for station breaks. And don't you
>>> want you advertising to be interesting. But I suppose Radio KUNT would
>>> have not been allowed by the Feds, perhaps they would have suggested
>>> WUNT?
>>
>> Not in Texas they wouldn't; see my other post about dividing by the
>> Mississippi.
>
>See http://earlyradiohistory.us/kwtrivia.htm for a thrilling list of
>exceptions and reasons why.

Fascinating stuff. Thanks for posting the link.

[Butch Malahide]

On Aug 9, 12:25 pm, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper)
wrote:
> In article <M8HzJD....@kithrup.com>, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <k00pvb$d9...@reader1.panix.com>, Tim McDaniel <t...@panix.com> wrote:

> >>In article <k00c4k$qd...@dont-email.me>, Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> >>>Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:

> >>>> In article <jvosap$4g...@reader1.panix.com>, t...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) wrote:
> >>>>> The University of North Texas is abbreviated UNT.  It has a student
> >>>>> radio station.  The rule for radio call signs would require
> >>>>> a leading K.  Its call sign is KNTU.
>
> >>>> Why that I wonder?
>
> >>>'Cause UNT with a K in front of it leads to interesting
> >>>radio ad campaigns, and NTU is close enough to UNT to
> >>>make for a clunky substitute?
>
> >>Specifically,
> >>University of North Texas <-> North Texas University.
> >>I can't say for sure that "A of B" <-> "B(adjectivally) A" is always
> >>permitted in English, but it's at least frequent.
>
> >>Or why "K" for radio stations?  That would drop us down a rabbit-hole
> >>of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.
>
> Is "a rabbit-hole of neepery" anything like "a long, rambling, and
> completely unrelated to SF discussion"?
>
> >For reasons obscure to me, the call letters of *approximately* all
> >radio stations in the US east of the Mississippi begin with W, and
> >all stations to the west, with a K.  There are a couple of exceptions
> >but I don't remember what they are.
>
> The Twin Cities area, for starters. Here, you can find WCCO west of
> the Mississippi and KSTP east of it.

I don't know if WLOL is east or west of the Mississippi, but I'm
wondering about the "LOL". It used to stand for "Land of Lakes" but
nowadays maybe they've gone over to an all-comedy format?

[Michael Stemper]

In the sense that the Mississippi goes through both of them, yes. That's
why roughly ten percent of all of the bridges across the Mississippi
are here.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <ee47147d-b3b1-4ef7...@e5g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,

Heh. Yes. When I was living in the west of nowhere, that is,
the San Joaquin Valley, there was a small town called Wasco ...
probably not founded by exiled Texans, though you never know. It
did not have a radio station.

[Greg Goss]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

>Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:

>>Or why "K" for radio stations? That would drop us down a rabbit-hole
>>of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.
>
>For reasons obscure to me, the call letters of *approximately* all
>radio stations in the US east of the Mississippi begin with W, and
>all stations to the west, with a K. There are a couple of exceptions
>but I don't remember what they are.

It started as land-based versus ship-based, and then later shifted to
east or west of the Mississippi. The exceptions have maintained their
licence since before the shift to the east/west rule.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

KDKA in Pittsburgh got its call letters before the rule was in place,
and is still there.

[Tim McDaniel]

In article <k00rqk$2om$1...@dont-email.me>,
Michael Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Is "a rabbit-hole of neepery" anything like "a long, rambling, and
>completely unrelated to SF discussion"?

I may have been using the term wrongly, or in an extended meaning.

The Hacker's Dictionary has

neep-neep: /neep neep/, n.

[onomatopoeic, widely spread through SF fandom but reported to
have originated at Caltech in the 1970s] One who is fascinated by
computers. Less specific than hacker, as it need not imply more
skill than is required to play games on a PC. The derived noun
neeping applies specifically to the long conversations about
computers that tend to develop in the corners at most
SF-convention parties (the term neepery is also in wide
use). Fandom has a related proverb to the effect that "Hacking is
a conversational black hole!".

http://www.waywordradio.org/neepery_1/ has

neepery n. - Note: Related to the entry for neep-neep in the
Jargon File. << Oops. "Neepery" is techno-slang. It refers to the
use of excessive jargon. (The jargon itself is "neep" or
sometimes referred to as "neep-neep". And yes, this means my
first use of the word "neepery" was an example of neepery.) -
""Atari Stock Holders Talk!" by Travis AtariArchives.org Mar. 9,
1994. (source: Double-Tongued Dictionary)

But I did some Googling where people have used "neepery" and it looks
to me like the intended meaning is "minutiae".

--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com

[Michael Stemper]

In article <499c94fc-b398-4b64...@n18g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> writes:

>On Aug 9, 12:25=A0pm, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>> In article <M8HzJD....@kithrup.com>, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>> >In article <k00pvb$d9...@reader1.panix.com>, Tim McDaniel <t...@panix.com> wrote:

>> >>Or why "K" for radio stations? =A0That would drop us down a rabbit-hole

>> >>of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.
>>
>> Is "a rabbit-hole of neepery" anything like "a long, rambling, and
>> completely unrelated to SF discussion"?
>>
>> >For reasons obscure to me, the call letters of *approximately* all
>> >radio stations in the US east of the Mississippi begin with W, and

>> >all stations to the west, with a K. =A0There are a couple of exceptions

>> >but I don't remember what they are.
>>
>> The Twin Cities area, for starters. Here, you can find WCCO west of
>> the Mississippi and KSTP east of it.
>
>I don't know if WLOL is east or west of the Mississippi, but I'm
>wondering about the "LOL". It used to stand for "Land of Lakes" but
>nowadays maybe they've gone over to an all-comedy format?

Wow. I hadn't heard of them in years. According to wikipedia:
1. The station formerly known as WLOL-FM was bought up by MPR and
became the flagship station of their classical network.
2. There's still a WLOL-AM in the Twin Cities.
3. The WLOL-FM call sign is now in W. Virginia.

[Howard Brazee]

On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 17:06:49 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>For reasons obscure to me, the call letters of *approximately* all
>radio stations in the US east of the Mississippi begin with W, and
>all stations to the west, with a K. There are a couple of exceptions
>but I don't remember what they are.

I've lived in two communities that had both types of radio stations -
Des Moines/Ames & St. Louis. St. Louis is on the Mississippi, and
Des Moines is in between the Mississippi and the Missouri.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[Walter Bushell]

In article
<ee47147d-b3b1-4ef7...@e5g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:

May I pass on that one?

My first guess was El Passo.

[David DeLaney]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>For reasons obscure to me, the call letters of *approximately* all
>>radio stations in the US east of the Mississippi begin with W, and
>>all stations to the west, with a K. There are a couple of exceptions
>>but I don't remember what they are.
>
>I've lived in two communities that had both types of radio stations -

- country AND western?

>Des Moines/Ames & St. Louis. St. Louis is on the Mississippi, and
>Des Moines is in between the Mississippi and the Missouri.

Oh.

Dave "on the Mississippi many years a-go / once a year the folks would come to
see the show" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> writes:

> On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 17:06:49 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
>
>>For reasons obscure to me, the call letters of *approximately* all
>>radio stations in the US east of the Mississippi begin with W, and
>>all stations to the west, with a K. There are a couple of exceptions
>>but I don't remember what they are.
>
> I've lived in two communities that had both types of radio stations -
> Des Moines/Ames & St. Louis. St. Louis is on the Mississippi, and
> Des Moines is in between the Mississippi and the Missouri.

We have both in Minneapolis/St. Paul, but then the Mississippi runs
between them.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

[Joseph Nebus]

In <k00pvb$d9g$1...@reader1.panix.com> tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) writes:

>Or why "K" for radio stations? That would drop us down a rabbit-hole
>of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.

My understanding --- last I looked into it --- was that there
wasn't a proven chain of reasoning behind the assignment of K as one
of the four callsign initials for the United States, but that there
was a plausible enough story, starting from the indisputable point that
'America' starts with the letter 'A'. I'd be interested to know if
there had been an etymological breakthrough.

--
http://nebusresearch.wordpress.com/ Joseph Nebus
Current Entry: Playing With Tiles http://wp.me/p1RYhY-hX
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Brian M. Scott]

On Thu, 09 Aug 2012 12:55:24 -0400, Walter Bushell
<pr...@panix.com> wrote in
<news:proto-AAB8DC....@news.panix.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> But I suppose Radio KUNT would have not been allowed by
> the Feds, perhaps they would have suggested WUNT?

No, they WUNT. The geography's wrong.

[...]

Brian

[Kip Williams]

Joseph Nebus wrote:
> In <k00pvb$d9g$1...@reader1.panix.com> tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) writes:
>
>> Or why "K" for radio stations? That would drop us down a rabbit-hole
>> of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.
>
> My understanding --- last I looked into it --- was that there
> wasn't a proven chain of reasoning behind the assignment of K as one
> of the four callsign initials for the United States, but that there
> was a plausible enough story, starting from the indisputable point that
> 'America' starts with the letter 'A'. I'd be interested to know if
> there had been an etymological breakthrough.

Let's see. US stations can begin with W, A, N, or K...

Nope. Not seeing any pattern there.


Kip W
rasfw

[Dan Tilque]

Tim McDaniel wrote:
>
> Or why "K" for radio stations? That would drop us down a rabbit-hole
> of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.
>

Cecil Adams actually tackled the W/K radio callsign thing. After
screwing up his first answer and after being corrected on the SDMB, he
gave this corrected answer:

<http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2303/why-do-u-s-radio-call-letters-start-with-w-in-the-east-and-k-in-the-west-revisited>

There's more gory details in whitetho's post on the board, but only the
truly masochistic will be interested, so I won't waste time hunting it down.

Compared with that, Interstate highway numbering is fairly simple.


--
Dan Tilque

[Christian Weisgerber]

Dan Tilque <dti...@frontier.com> wrote:

> > Or why "K" for radio stations? That would drop us down a rabbit-hole
> > of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.
>
> Cecil Adams actually tackled the W/K radio callsign thing.

> <http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2303/why-do-u-s-radio-call-letters-start-with-w-in-the-east-and-k-in-the-west-revisited>

The far more interesting questions is why broadcasters in the US
even use such callsigns. Is such a scheme used anywhere else in
the world? Yes, radio amateurs have callsigns, but broadcasters?
How bizarre.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[Greg Goss]

I believe that any transmitter in the world with the ability to cross
national boundaries must be registered and identified.

All Canadian stations have call signs, though there are a number of
Canadian cases where an AM and an FM station both use the same call
sign. I think that there may once have been (still?) TV stations
making a triad of stations with the same call sign.

When I had transmitters, I was assigned the Canadian call signs of
"XM15-281" and "XM15-8419". XM meant Canadian CB, 15 was the
geographical zone and the remainder was a sequential number. My first
license was a re-issue of an expired license number, giving me a low
number that some were skeptical of.

Canadian commercial stations are all CKxx to CJxx. The national
government-sponsored network uses CBx (with optional additional
letters encoding stuff) that I think had to be contracted from China.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <k05vr6$26q1$1...@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,

Perhaps it has advertising value? There are those of us who
remember alpha sequences (particularly if they're pronounceable)
better than numeric sequences. Such people HOWLED with ANGUISH
when the phone system went all-numeric, I forget how many decades
ago. They would rather have stuck with "THornwall-N-NNNN" rather
than "84N-NNNN." I suspect that many of them dated back to the
days when you could pick up the receiver and say, "Operator, get
me the Schultz Company" or "Mrs. Schultz." Myself, though much
more alpha- than numeric-oriented, I found it a relief not to
have to search through nine digits to find the letters I wanted.

[Rod Speed]

"Christian Weisgerber" <na...@mips.inka.de> wrote in message
news:k05vr6$26q1$1...@lorvorc.mips.inka.de...

> Dan Tilque <dti...@frontier.com> wrote:
>
>> > Or why "K" for radio stations? That would drop us down a rabbit-hole
>> > of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.
>>
>> Cecil Adams actually tackled the W/K radio callsign thing.
>> <http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2303/why-do-u-s-radio-call-letters-start-with-w-in-the-east-and-k-in-the-west-revisited>
>
> The far more interesting questions is why broadcasters in the US
> even use such callsigns. Is such a scheme used anywhere else in
> the world? Yes, radio amateurs have callsigns, but broadcasters?

They do in Australia.

> How bizarre.

Not really. They provide a way of recognising a particular broadcaster.

[David Dyer-Bennet]

They're required by law; I used to know the rules, at least for certain
commercial stations (I think there is variation on several axes).

[Dan Goodman]

On 08/11/2012 11:04 AM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> The far more interesting questions is why broadcasters in the US
> even use such callsigns. Is such a scheme used anywhere else in
> the world? Yes, radio amateurs have callsigns, but broadcasters?
> How bizarre.

Yes, they're used elsewhere in the world. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_letters


--
Dan Goodman

[Kip Williams]

David Dyer-Bennet wrote, On 8/11/12 11:04 PM:

> na...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes:
>
>> Dan Tilque <dti...@frontier.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Or why "K" for radio stations? That would drop us down a rabbit-hole
>>>> of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.
>>>
>>> Cecil Adams actually tackled the W/K radio callsign thing.
>>> <http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2303/why-do-u-s-radio-call-letters-start-with-w-in-the-east-and-k-in-the-west-revisited>
>>
>> The far more interesting questions is why broadcasters in the US
>> even use such callsigns. Is such a scheme used anywhere else in
>> the world? Yes, radio amateurs have callsigns, but broadcasters?
>> How bizarre.
>
> They're required by law; I used to know the rules, at least for certain
> commercial stations (I think there is variation on several axes).

What got me was when stations started simplifying their names. Denver's
KLZ-FM started calling itself "KZ" (and changed their call letters to
KAZY). Then they went to a letter and a number: "Q-93" or some such.

After that, they took to calling themselves "The Fox" or "The Lion" or
some other animal. I didn't hang around to see where the trend led,
though. That was about the time we moved to Georgia.

When we were in Houston ('83-5), we were just a few blocks away from
KBTL, the all-Beatles station. I dropped in on the station one time and
picked up a little doodad that was supposed to fit on the button on a
car radio and remind me of them, but it never stayed on. I learned that
they were one of two stations in a rather small network of all-Beatles
stations calling themselves KBTL, and that their real name was something
else. Interesting. They went away even before we moved to Virginia.


Kip W
rasfw

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 18:47:13 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt
<djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in
<news:M8LtI...@kithrup.com> in rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> Such people HOWLED with ANGUISH when the phone system went
> all-numeric, I forget how many decades ago. They would
> rather have stuck with "THornwall-N-NNNN" rather than

> "84N-NNNN." [...]

Interesting example: the earliest phone number that I
remember is THornwall 3-2129. After looking at a map, I
*think* that we lived on Spaulding Ave. just north of
Bancroft Way; I'm almost positive that Sacramento St. was
the major road that ran along the vacant lot behind us.

Brian

[Dirk van den Boom]

Am 03.08.2012 13:57, schrieb Dirk van den Boom:
> From someone in a German newsgroup, looking for a short story he only
> vaguely remembers. It takes place on Mars and involved is a Cambridge
> university which directly continues the tradition of the two Cambridge
> universities in Britain and the US.
>
> Rings any bells?
>

I caused a long thread :-)

The answer to my question is, by the way, Arthur C. Clarke's story "The
songs of distant earth".

--
www.sf-boom-blog.de

[Dirk van den Boom]

Am 05.08.2012 12:14, schrieb Thomas Womack:

> (Ah, not a short, it's _The Songs of Distant Earth_; found a dodgy
> PDF:

I didn't see your posting before I posted my own, I'm sorry for that. I
haven't read the story myself, but Wikipedia lists it as a short story.

[Butch Malahide]

Actually, the Wikipedia article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Songs_of_Distant_Earth

is mainly about Clarke's 1986 novel. The ISFDB

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/se.cgi

lists both the novel and the 1958 short story from which it grew. That
stuff about all those Cambridges must be from the novel; I couldn't
find that on skimming through the short story.

[Butch Malahide]

Sorry for the bad link.

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?40929
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1164

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <cgy9kwt4a4hy.1h...@40tude.net>,

Sacramento is certainly a major road running north-south through
Berkeley, maybe a mile west of campus. And yes, Spaulding is one
block east of it. I don't think there are any vacant lots left
on Sacramento.

[Greg Goss]

"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

I never knew my Toronto phone number, but I later learned it had been
Baldwin something. When we moved at age 7 to Kelowna, we didn't need
the first two digits. You just dialled the five digits. For some
reason, I found it easier to memorize our seven digit number, but ever
since, my short-term memory for phone numbers tops out at five, and I
have to dial two half-numbers.

I'm not sure what the significance of the named section was. Where I
grew up, 765 was one phone office, 762 and 763 was the other, and
there was a third (764? 767? I forget). So if they'd bothered to
name 76, it would still refer to two different sections of the local
calling area. Later when I worked in another small city, 368 and half
of 365 went to one office and the other half of 365 went to the other.

[Greg Goss]

Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:


>What got me was when stations started simplifying their names. Denver's
>KLZ-FM started calling itself "KZ" (and changed their call letters to
>KAZY). Then they went to a letter and a number: "Q-93" or some such.
>
>After that, they took to calling themselves "The Fox" or "The Lion" or
>some other animal. I didn't hang around to see where the trend led,
>though. That was about the time we moved to Georgia.

When I went to university, I used to listen to CKLG-FM (there was a
co-owned AM station with the same first four letters). Eventually I
flunked out of U and moved away.

A dozen years later, I moved back to Vancouver. The popular local
rock station was CFOX. OK.

Later still, they started claiming to be Vancouver's longest-lasting
rock station, with a pedigree going back to the early sixties. Since
I didn't remember them from my U days, I was skeptical. Eventually
the Web was invented and I could look them up. They had been CKLG
until they bought the new name from a bankrupt station.

Can you claim to be the same station if you change your identity?

[Howard Brazee]

I know one phone number very well, the one I learned first as a child
(Clifford-4-3079).

Before I got married, my phone number wasn't that useful. If I
called it, either nobody was home, or the line was busy...

[Kip Williams]

Greg Goss wrote, On 8/12/12 12:36 PM:

> Later still, they started claiming to be Vancouver's longest-lasting
> rock station, with a pedigree going back to the early sixties. Since
> I didn't remember them from my U days, I was skeptical. Eventually
> the Web was invented and I could look them up. They had been CKLG
> until they bought the new name from a bankrupt station.
>
> Can you claim to be the same station if you change your identity?

Eh, probably. Denver's radio stations used to change their name a lot,
it seemed. When KLZ changed to something else, I was somewhat surprised
that they'd throw away a three-letter call sign, which I don't believe
you can get any more, just to have an obscure monogram for some
corporate shell that will change its name in a couple of years anyway.
Just had to pee on it, I guess.


Kip W
rasfw

[Butch Malahide]

On Aug 12, 11:50 am, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
> I know one phone number very well, the one I learned first as a child
> (Clifford-4-3079).

Elkhurst 0675, the phone number of my Grandma's friend when I was a
little kid. (I had to speak the number when the operator couldn't
understand Grandma's broken English.)

> Before I got married, my phone number wasn't that useful.   If I
> called it, either nobody was home, or the line was busy...

You didn't have an answering machine?

[Howard Brazee]

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 14:54:26 -0700 (PDT), Butch Malahide
<fred....@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Before I got married, my phone number wasn't that useful.   If I
>> called it, either nobody was home, or the line was busy...
>
>You didn't have an answering machine?

Not many people did in those days.

[Kip Williams]

Howard Brazee wrote, On 8/12/12 6:42 PM:

> On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 14:54:26 -0700 (PDT), Butch Malahide
> <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Before I got married, my phone number wasn't that useful. If I
>>> called it, either nobody was home, or the line was busy...
>>
>> You didn't have an answering machine?
>
> Not many people did in those days.

Answering services were still a viable business when I got married.
Well, I suppose there are still some around, but I can imagine many of
our clients would have gone over to machines once they dropped below,
say, a hundred bucks.


Kip W
rasfw

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 14:54:26 -0700 (PDT), Butch Malahide

<fred....@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:7ed0e019-82ce-4c9d...@a17g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

> On Aug 12, 11:50�am, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net>
> wrote:

[...]

>> Before I got married, my phone number wasn't that useful.
>> � If I called it, either nobody was home, or the line
>> was busy...

> You didn't have an answering machine?

That was probably before the days of answering machines.
For that matter, the only time that I ever had an answering
machine was when I held office in the SCA and had to be
accessible; once that was over and done with, I disconnected
it.

Brian

[Michael Stemper]

In article <ylfk628o...@dd-b.net>, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> writes:
>na...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes:
>> Dan Tilque <dti...@frontier.com> wrote:

>>> > Or why "K" for radio stations? That would drop us down a rabbit-hole
>>> > of neepery down there with US interstate highway numbering.
>>>
>>> Cecil Adams actually tackled the W/K radio callsign thing.
>>> <http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2303/why-do-u-s-radio-call-letters-start-with-w-in-the-east-and-k-in-the-west-revisited>
>>
>> The far more interesting questions is why broadcasters in the US
>> even use such callsigns. Is such a scheme used anywhere else in
>> the world? Yes, radio amateurs have callsigns, but broadcasters?
>> How bizarre.
>
>They're required by law; I used to know the rules, at least for certain
>commercial stations (I think there is variation on several axes).

FCC regulations require that each broadcast station identify with
- Call sign
- City
- State
at the top and the bottom of every hour.

They can have and use their own branding as well. So, stations are allowed
to identify themselves as "Jazz 88" or "KQ92" or "Cities 97" or "Classical
MPR". And they're allowed to change their branding at any time without let
or hindrance. But, that half-hourly identification must include their
official FCC-issued identification. This allows an unambiguous mapping
between broadcasts and licenses, without needing to be up-to-the-minute
on corporate branding.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.

[Mark Zenier]

In article <KXFVr.49482$7y4....@newsfe23.iad>,

Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>When we were in Houston ('83-5), we were just a few blocks away from
>KBTL, the all-Beatles station. I dropped in on the station one time and
>picked up a little doodad that was supposed to fit on the button on a
>car radio and remind me of them, but it never stayed on. I learned that
>they were one of two stations in a rather small network of all-Beatles
>stations calling themselves KBTL, and that their real name was something
>else. Interesting. They went away even before we moved to Virginia.

A lot of those specialized stations (All Elvis, All Jokes, ...) are
really there to alienate the previous listener community in preparation
for a format change or sale.

For commercial media, you're not the customer, you're the product.


Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <k0b3t...@enews6.newsguy.com>,

Mark Zenier <mze...@eskimo.com> wrote:
>In article <KXFVr.49482$7y4....@newsfe23.iad>,
>Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>When we were in Houston ('83-5), we were just a few blocks away from
>>KBTL, the all-Beatles station. I dropped in on the station one time and
>>picked up a little doodad that was supposed to fit on the button on a
>>car radio and remind me of them, but it never stayed on. I learned that
>>they were one of two stations in a rather small network of all-Beatles
>>stations calling themselves KBTL, and that their real name was something
>>else. Interesting. They went away even before we moved to Virginia.
>
>A lot of those specialized stations (All Elvis, All Jokes, ...) are
>really there to alienate the previous listener community in preparation
>for a format change or sale.
>
>For commercial media, you're not the customer, you're the product.
>

That sounds odd. I agree that "stunting" is common in advance of
a format change, but a ratings point is a ratings point. I'm sure
they'd just as soon have the former listeners even though they will
inevitably gradually drop off as dislike overcomes inertia.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Kip Williams]

Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote, On 8/13/12 10:55 AM:

I think you're right. Particularly as "KBTL" was around for at least a
year or so. I seem to recall it was on the air before we came to town.
(Googling finds that it converted in July '83, so probably -just- before
we hit Houston. I don't see a last date anywhere.)


Kip W
rasfw

[Kip Williams]

Michael Stemper wrote, On 8/13/12 9:34 AM:

> FCC regulations require that each broadcast station identify with
> - Call sign
> - City
> - State
> at the top and the bottom of every hour.
>
> They can have and use their own branding as well. So, stations are allowed
> to identify themselves as "Jazz 88" or "KQ92" or "Cities 97" or "Classical
> MPR". And they're allowed to change their branding at any time without let
> or hindrance. But, that half-hourly identification must include their
> official FCC-issued identification. This allows an unambiguous mapping
> between broadcasts and licenses, without needing to be up-to-the-minute
> on corporate branding.

That was a weird thing about "KBTL". They didn't announce their actual
call letters, but maintained the pretense that they were really called
KBTL (at the same time as another station with the same owners was doing
the same thing in California, as I understand it).


KIPW (aka WKIP)
rasfw

[Michael Stemper]

In article <bP8Wr.76751$8b4....@newsfe08.iad>, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> writes:
>Michael Stemper wrote, On 8/13/12 9:34 AM:

>> FCC regulations require that each broadcast station identify with
>> - Call sign
>> - City
>> - State
>> at the top and the bottom of every hour.
>>
>> They can have and use their own branding as well. So, stations are allowed
>> to identify themselves as "Jazz 88" or "KQ92" or "Cities 97" or "Classical
>> MPR". And they're allowed to change their branding at any time without let
>> or hindrance. But, that half-hourly identification must include their
>> official FCC-issued identification. This allows an unambiguous mapping
>> between broadcasts and licenses, without needing to be up-to-the-minute
>> on corporate branding.
>
>That was a weird thing about "KBTL". They didn't announce their actual
>call letters, but maintained the pretense that they were really called
>KBTL

Are you sure that they didn't do the real ID at the top and bottom of
the hour? "WXYZ in Baton Rouge, Louisiana" wouldn't have taken too many
seconds, and could be fairly unobtrusive.

I don't know what the consequences would have been if they got busted.
They might very well have been violating the FCC regs.