Quickly fixing science fiction

[Joseph Nebus]

I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
of story that's now unforgivably neglected.

So, ah, what kind of story is that?


For my money I like a good, lightly sardonic, nonfact article.
Mock encyclopedia or news reports put into stories mean I can get some
of this in many, many larger stories, but there's something pure about
the form when there's none of the attempt to portray a scene and just
stick to reporting the scene instead.


--
http://nebusresearch.wordpress.com/ Joseph Nebus
Current Entry: How Many Last Rides? http://wp.me/p1RYhY-jS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Quadibloc]

On Oct 6, 8:34 am, nebu...@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>         I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
> fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
> minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
> of story that's now unforgivably neglected.
>
>         So, ah, what kind of story is that?

No. I don't agree.

Because while there is a kind of story that people are nostalgic
about, for authors to simply try writing that kind of story again
won't, by itself, wipe out the problem.

People would also have to _read_ that kind of story again, in
sustainable numbers.

Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Simak, Leinster... one can look at the works
of the acknowledged "greats" of science-fiction to find out what type
of story we are nostalgic for.

But if people start from today, and try to imagine what the future
might plausibly be, the result looks more like _Blade Runner_ than
_Forbidden Planet_. It's harder these days to suspend disbelief for
the kinds of stories we want to read. (Which is part of the
explanation for the growth of fantasy - suspending disbelief is just
less of an issue if you're reading about Conan instead of John
Carter.)

Serious SF needs to be able to be taken seriously, and so it's not
surprising that its tone will change as the times change around it.

Space opera SF has yielded to mil-SF and fantasy as a consequence of
the same social changes.

John Savard

[Wayne Throop]

: nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus)
: I think we can all agree that all the problems with science fiction as

: a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within minutes if
: people would just start up again writing the correct kind of story
: that's now unforgivably neglected.
:
: So, ah, what kind of story is that?

I certainly don't agree. The bit about "all the problems" coupled
with "fandom" and "kind of story" (implying singular), implies pretty
strongly that no one kind of story can solve all problems. A downturn in
purchases is one of the problems, so reducing the number of purchasers by
contracting the genre boundaries and alienating fans is counterproductive.

: For my money I like a good, lightly sardonic, nonfact article. Mock

: encyclopedia or news reports put into stories mean I can get some of
: this in many, many larger stories, but there's something pure about
: the form when there's none of the attempt to portray a scene and just
: stick to reporting the scene instead.

An especially* counterproductive suggestion.
Definitely a "cure worse than diease" situation.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 16:58:58 GMT, Wayne Throop
<thr...@sheol.org> wrote in <news:13495...@sheol.org> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

>: nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus)
>: I think we can all agree that all the problems with science fiction as
>: a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within minutes if
>: people would just start up again writing the correct kind of story
>: that's now unforgivably neglected.

>: So, ah, what kind of story is that?

> I certainly don't agree. The bit about "all the problems"
> coupled with "fandom" and "kind of story" (implying
> singular), implies pretty strongly that no one kind of
> story can solve all problems.

I rather thought that that was part of Joseph's point.

[...]

Brian

[Robert Carnegie]

On Saturday, October 6, 2012 3:34:02 PM UTC+1, Joseph Nebus wrote:
> I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
> fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
> minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
> of story that's now unforgivably neglected.
>
> So, ah, what kind of story is that?

In other words, what sort of story that they don't give us any more,
maybe for a very good reason, would we still like to see?

Personally I like specifically the stories where a future world
is missing some of the technologies or knowledge that we have,
because that says something about predictions.

As a turn-about, most people in the developed world, probably,
now own a /portable/ video-phone, but don't use it as such.
Or is that just me?!

> For my money I like a good, lightly sardonic, nonfact article.
> Mock encyclopedia or news reports put into stories mean I can get some
> of this in many, many larger stories, but there's something pure about
> the form when there's none of the attempt to portray a scene and just
> stick to reporting the scene instead.

And if the writer is on the ball, you get just enough clues to how the
world is different to ours, to work out what the situation is. Or maybe
not right away. Not for quite a while.

I think James White's _The Silent Stars Go By_ is the one where he
describes "an age of heroes" that turns out to be "an age of
steam-driven machines, in particular mechanised warfare, tanks and
such, terrorising any civilians that get in the way".

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <f626428d-8988-4af9...@googlegroups.com>,

James White wrote steampunk?

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[Robert Carnegie]

Well, briefly. I think the episode has a female medieval physician
treating and/or confronting one or more crew from a damaged hero -
and then the enemy attacks and everyone dies. Or something.

But I think the alternate Earth gets through the M iddle Ages faster.
And then it launches a cold-sleep starship.

[Rod Speed]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote

> Joseph Nebus wrote

>> I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
>> fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped
>> out within minutes if people would just start up again writing
>> the correct kind of story that's now unforgivably neglected.

>> So, ah, what kind of story is that?

> In other words, what sort of story that they don't give us any
> more, maybe for a very good reason, would we still like to see?

> Personally I like specifically the stories where a future world
> is missing some of the technologies or knowledge that we
> have, because that says something about predictions.

> As a turn-about, most people in the developed world, probably,
> now own a /portable/ video-phone, but don't use it as such.

Yep.

> Or is that just me?!

Nope, few use the video mode much except in specific situations.

It has revolutionised news tho.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <dd022066-5511-41b6...@googlegroups.com>,

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, October 6, 2012 9:59:13 PM UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <f626428d-8988-4af9...@googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >I think James White's _The Silent Stars Go By_ is the one where he
>> >describes "an age of heroes" that turns out to be "an age of
>> >steam-driven machines, in particular mechanised warfare, tanks and
>> >such, terrorising any civilians that get in the way".
>>
>> James White wrote steampunk?
>
>Well, briefly. I think the episode has a female medieval physician
>treating and/or confronting one or more crew from a damaged hero -
>and then the enemy attacks and everyone dies. Or something.
>

>But I think the alternate Earth gets through the M（ddle Ages faster.

>And then it launches a cold-sleep starship.

The "heroes" were invented by Hero of Alexandria, whose steam engine
was taken seriously in this timeline. And Brendan the Navigator
"discovered" America in his hero-powered ship, leading to an Irish/Aztec
alliance that went to space.

Through some sort of time-cycling or something their descendants come
back to our timeline at the end.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[David DeLaney]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 14:34:01 +0000 (UTC), Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
> I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
>fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
>minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
>of story that's now unforgivably neglected.
>
> So, ah, what kind of story is that?

Well, to-day I bought Banks' new hardback, Lackey's new paperback, Chance's new
paperback, Meluch's ne paperback, Hunter's new paperback, Tallerman's new
paperback, Wendig's new paperback, a couple paperbacks by authors I've never
heard of before, Sanderson's new chapbook-trade-paperback, and Drake's new
collection/trade paperback. So I'm not sure I understand the question.

Also, problems with the fandom have almost NEVER been wiped out by changing
the kind of stories being written. As far as I'm aware. (ObSF: Foster's
Morphodite trilogy...)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Dan Goodman]

Robert Carnegie wrote:

> As a turn-about, most people in the developed world, probably,

> now own a _portable_ video-phone, but don't use it as such.

> Or is that just me?!

I have a portable phone with a camera. I don't consider it a
videophone.

--
Dan Goodman
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.

[Lynn McGuire]

On 10/6/2012 9:34 AM, Joseph Nebus wrote:
> I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
> fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
> minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
> of story that's now unforgivably neglected.
>
> So, ah, what kind of story is that?
>
>
> For my money I like a good, lightly sardonic, nonfact article.
> Mock encyclopedia or news reports put into stories mean I can get some
> of this in many, many larger stories, but there's something pure about
> the form when there's none of the attempt to portray a scene and just
> stick to reporting the scene instead.

Not gonna happen. Fantasy rules in SF for the
21st century so far and I seen no sign of that
abating. Especially with the juvenile SF.

I still wondering when "The Ongoing Adventures
of Harry Potter" will be released. You know
it is going to happen.

Lynn

[Joseph Nebus]

Bless you.

[Kurt Busiek]

On 2012-10-07 03:42:56 +0000, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> said:

> I still wondering when "The Ongoing Adventures
> of Harry Potter" will be released. You know
> it is going to happen.

When she starts to feel pinched for cash, no doubt.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!

[Rod Speed]

Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote
> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote

>> I still wondering when "The Ongoing Adventures
>> of Harry Potter" will be released. You know
>> it is going to happen.

> When she starts to feel pinched for cash, no doubt.

Unlikely to happen.

She hasn’t done anything stupid with what she has got already and
appears to be happy to be off doing other things writing wise now.

[Greg Goss]

"Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:

>Robert Carnegie wrote:
>
>> As a turn-about, most people in the developed world, probably,
>> now own a _portable_ video-phone, but don't use it as such.
>> Or is that just me?!
>
>I have a portable phone with a camera. I don't consider it a
>videophone.

My new phone has two cameras. One faces me for videophone use, and
the other faces out for normal camera use. Unfortunately for the
former, Skype is broken on this phone and I don't know if there are
any other android videophone apps worth talking about.

Not that I like videophone conversations anyways.
--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.

[jack...@bright.net]

Joseph Nebus wrote:

>
>
> I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
>fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
>minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
>of story that's now unforgivably neglected.
>
> So, ah, what kind of story is that?

A dangerous situation, trapping the hero until he remembers the one
science fact that can get him out of it. "Marooned off Vesta",
"Neutron Star", "Dust Rag", "The Men in the Mirror".

--
-Jack

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <adcnjh...@mid.individual.net>,

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>"Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>
>>Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>
>>> As a turn-about, most people in the developed world, probably,
>>> now own a _portable_ video-phone, but don't use it as such.
>>> Or is that just me?!
>>
>>I have a portable phone with a camera. I don't consider it a
>>videophone.
>
>My new phone has two cameras. One faces me for videophone use, and
>the other faces out for normal camera use. Unfortunately for the
>former, Skype is broken on this phone and I don't know if there are
>any other android videophone apps worth talking about.
>
>Not that I like videophone conversations anyways.

My phone plugs into the wall. It has no video, or I hope to
goodness it doesn't.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <vau1785kjdnv2lrdv...@4ax.com>,

Reminds me of the definition of a story that mystery writer Joe
Gores once gave Marion Zimmer Bradley: "Joe's got his fanny in a
bear trap and here's how he gets out of it."

[Konrad Gaertner]

Kurt Busiek wrote:
>
> On 2012-10-07 03:42:56 +0000, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> said:
>
> > I still wondering when "The Ongoing Adventures
> > of Harry Potter" will be released. You know
> > it is going to happen.
>
> When she starts to feel pinched for cash, no doubt.

Maybe, but she seems to be doing okay so far:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2012/10/02/rowling-best-seller-casual-vacancy/1608217/


--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll

[Greg Goss]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

>In article <vau1785kjdnv2lrdv...@4ax.com>,
> <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>>Joseph Nebus wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
>>>fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
>>>minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
>>>of story that's now unforgivably neglected.
>>>
>>> So, ah, what kind of story is that?
>>
>>A dangerous situation, trapping the hero until he remembers the one
>>science fact that can get him out of it. "Marooned off Vesta",
>>"Neutron Star", "Dust Rag", "The Men in the Mirror".
>
>Reminds me of the definition of a story that mystery writer Joe
>Gores once gave Marion Zimmer Bradley: "Joe's got his fanny in a
>bear trap and here's how he gets out of it."

I call them "Analog puzzle stories."

[JRStern]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 14:34:01 +0000 (UTC), nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph
Nebus) wrote:

>
>
> I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
>fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
>minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
>of story that's now unforgivably neglected.
>
> So, ah, what kind of story is that?

same as it always was - literate and creative and scientifically
credible with only a modest amount of suspension of disbelief, better
yet if it's also scientifically educational to read through.

J.

[Kurt Busiek]

On 2012-10-07 17:26:15 +0000, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:

> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>
>> On 2012-10-07 03:42:56 +0000, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> said:
>>
>>> I still wondering when "The Ongoing Adventures
>>> of Harry Potter" will be released. You know
>>> it is going to happen.
>>
>> When she starts to feel pinched for cash, no doubt.
>
> Maybe, but she seems to be doing okay so far:
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2012/10/02/rowling-best-seller-casual-vacancy/1608217/

Yeah,
>
she might be able to hold out a while.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Sunday, October 7, 2012 8:00:03 AM UTC+1, Greg Goss wrote:
> "Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>
> >Robert Carnegie wrote:
> >
> >> As a turn-about, most people in the developed world, probably,
> >> now own a _portable_ video-phone, but don't use it as such.
> >> Or is that just me?!
> >
> >I have a portable phone with a camera. I don't consider it a
> >videophone.
>
> My new phone has two cameras. One faces me for videophone use, and
> the other faces out for normal camera use. Unfortunately for the
> former, Skype is broken on this phone and I don't know if there are
> any other android videophone apps worth talking about.
>
> Not that I like videophone conversations anyways.

I'm proposing that you fellows do own videophones, there, only
neither of you wants to admit it. ;-)

I know almost nothing about Skype - except that I think you can use
it without pictures - so I won't try to fix that, except to mention
that some networks deliberately ban and, presumably, block it.
No point in annoying customers by banning the thing if you can't
actually stop them from using it...

[Greg Goss]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, October 7, 2012 8:00:03 AM UTC+1, Greg Goss wrote:

>> My new phone has two cameras. One faces me for videophone use, and
>> the other faces out for normal camera use. Unfortunately for the
>> former, Skype is broken on this phone and I don't know if there are
>> any other android videophone apps worth talking about.
>>
>> Not that I like videophone conversations anyways.
>
>I'm proposing that you fellows do own videophones, there, only
>neither of you wants to admit it. ;-)

I have no problem admitting it, except that mine DOESN'T WORK.

>I know almost nothing about Skype - except that I think you can use
>it without pictures - so I won't try to fix that, except to mention
>that some networks deliberately ban and, presumably, block it.
>No point in annoying customers by banning the thing if you can't
>actually stop them from using it...

I've used Skype from a different Android pad (not a phone) in audio
mode with no problem. I never thought of the possibility that my
Rogers phone might be blocked by Rogers (my telco). But the program
never even opens. I would expect such a case to open the application,
but then the application would tell me "cannot establish a
connection". In my case, it asks for my login information, then
reverts to the home icons panel.

Skype supports audio calls (including in and out calls to/from the
normal telephone network if you have a paid membership and pay extra
for the incoming phone number), video calls, and text messaging. I've
used all three.

I'm not willing to pay for a data plan, so my smartphone can only
connect to the data network via WiFi.

[Dan Goodman]

Robert Carnegie wrote:

> On Sunday, October 7, 2012 8:00:03 AM UTC+1, Greg Goss wrote:
> > "Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > >
> > >> As a turn-about, most people in the developed world, probably,

> > >> now own a portable video-phone, but don't use it as such.

> > >> Or is that just me?!
> > >
> > > I have a portable phone with a camera. I don't consider it a
> > > videophone.
> >
> > My new phone has two cameras. One faces me for videophone use, and
> > the other faces out for normal camera use. Unfortunately for the
> > former, Skype is broken on this phone and I don't know if there are
> > any other android videophone apps worth talking about.
> >
> > Not that I like videophone conversations anyways.
>
> I'm proposing that you fellows do own videophones, there, only
> neither of you wants to admit it. ;-)

My cellphone is the cheapest one I could find.

It has a camera. A STILL camera. One which does not do motion. If
you can explain how a cheap cellphone's camera can do video (which
requires motion)....

[Robert Bannister]

On 8/10/12 12:36 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> My phone plugs into the wall. It has no video, or I hope to
> goodness it doesn't.
>

Put your clothes on next time just in case.
I've given up on Skype because both people have to be on-line at the
same time to do the video thing, and that never happens except perhaps
with my great-nephew with whom I have no great wish to have a
conversation, a feeling doubtlessly reciprocated by him.
--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Carnegie]

On Monday, October 8, 2012 2:33:24 AM UTC+1, Dan Goodman wrote:
> My cellphone is the cheapest one I could find. It has a camera.
> A STILL camera. One which does not do motion. If you can explain
> how a cheap cellphone's camera can do video (which requires motion)....

Keep pressing the button really fast...

Okay, maybe you don't have a videophone. But I still say that
"most people in the developed world, probably," have one.
Yes, that's a bit squirmy. On the other hand, it's not counting
personal computers, especially laptops, fitted with cameras,
and able to run the software.

I also suspect that any science fiction fan who has the opportunity
to use a videophone, that he or she /owns/, and doesn't do it,
is, deep down, quite embarrassed about that betrayal of the cause!

[Quadibloc]

On Oct 7, 10:44 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> My phone plugs into the wall.  It has no video, or I hope to
> goodness it doesn't.

Is it a phone phone? If so, you're safe; video can hardly be sent over
dial-up. Or quality audio, for that matter.

John Savard

[Greg Goss]

Back in the later days of my dial-up, we were routinely getting 52
kbps connections on dial-up. Even without audio compression, that
beats CDs for bit-rate.

I installed a cheap webcam on my mother-in-law's computer in 2003. I
don't know the bit rate on her dial-up, but it was able to send
adequate video chat between her and a friend in Egypt.

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 04:47:40 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>>Is it a phone phone? If so, you're safe; video can hardly be sent over
>>dial-up. Or quality audio, for that matter.
>
>Back in the later days of my dial-up, we were routinely getting 52
>kbps connections on dial-up. Even without audio compression, that
>beats CDs for bit-rate.

It is interesting when I hear a radio talk show personality calling in
from a phone. Very different voice. I haven't heard anybody sound
hi-fi on a phone. Ever.

I played with my iPhone's video calling feature - at my daughter's
house where we could use wi-fi. The grandkids thought it was fun.

I'm way too cheap to have my phone use more than very minimal Verizon
minutes.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <adf2uq...@mid.individual.net>,

Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>On 8/10/12 12:36 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> My phone plugs into the wall. It has no video, or I hope to
>> goodness it doesn't.
>>
>
>Put your clothes on next time just in case.

Not a problem; I wear several layers of clothing just to sleep
in. This, plus an electric blanket, helps to cope with old age
and decrepitude and living in a basement flat where it's always
cool.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <xn0i428m...@news.iphouse.com>,

Dan Goodman <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>Robert Carnegie wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, October 7, 2012 8:00:03 AM UTC+1, Greg Goss wrote:
>> > "Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> As a turn-about, most people in the developed world, probably,
>> > >> now own a portable video-phone, but don't use it as such.
>> > >> Or is that just me?!
>> > >
>> > > I have a portable phone with a camera. I don't consider it a
>> > > videophone.
>> >
>> > My new phone has two cameras. One faces me for videophone use, and
>> > the other faces out for normal camera use. Unfortunately for the
>> > former, Skype is broken on this phone and I don't know if there are
>> > any other android videophone apps worth talking about.
>> >
>> > Not that I like videophone conversations anyways.
>>
>> I'm proposing that you fellows do own videophones, there, only
>> neither of you wants to admit it. ;-)
>
>My cellphone is the cheapest one I could find.
>
>It has a camera. A STILL camera. One which does not do motion. If
>you can explain how a cheap cellphone's camera can do video (which
>requires motion)....

Keep clicking at 30 frames per second?

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <fb5f1109-0017-4b40...@googlegroups.com>,

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>On Monday, October 8, 2012 2:33:24 AM UTC+1, Dan Goodman wrote:
>> My cellphone is the cheapest one I could find. It has a camera.
>> A STILL camera. One which does not do motion. If you can explain
>> how a cheap cellphone's camera can do video (which requires motion)....
>
>Keep pressing the button really fast...

You beat me to it....

>Okay, maybe you don't have a videophone. But I still say that
>"most people in the developed world, probably," have one.
>Yes, that's a bit squirmy. On the other hand, it's not counting
>personal computers, especially laptops, fitted with cameras,
>and able to run the software.

My PC doesn't have a camera either. It *was* equipped, when Hal
bought it*, to act like a television set. It had extra keys on
its keyboard to enable this dubious effect. I kept hitting those
keys by mistake -- sometimes *right in the middle of a fight on
LotRO* -- so I plugged in a different keyboard that wouldn't do
annoying things like that.

>
>I also suspect that any science fiction fan who has the opportunity
>to use a videophone, that he or she /owns/, and doesn't do it,
>is, deep down, quite embarrassed about that betrayal of the cause!

Wherefore in the pluperfect past tense would I want to use a
videophone? Do the people I make calls to, who are almost
exclusively the receptionists at doctors' offices, with whom I
must make an appointment, need to look at my face? Do they WANT
to?

____
Cheap, because it was the last one Fry's had, a demo model, and
they wanted to get rid of it.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Monday, October 8, 2012 3:44:10 PM UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <fb5f1109-0017-4b40...@googlegroups.com>, Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >I also suspect that any science fiction fan who has the opportunity
> >to use a videophone, that he or she /owns/, and doesn't do it,
> >is, deep down, quite embarrassed about that betrayal of the cause!
>
> Wherefore in the pluperfect past tense would I want to use a
> videophone? Do the people I make calls to, who are almost
> exclusively the receptionists at doctors' offices, with whom I
> must make an appointment, need to look at my face? Do they WANT
> to?

That's not the point. It's a thing that they had on Star Trek
and you aren't using it! If, that is, you have one. Which it seems
that you don't.

TAnyway, they could look at other parts of you - or rather,
the doctor could - and then it's called something like "telemedicine".
The quality of the result would depend on the quality of the camera
and lighting; a camera with its own light probably would be useful.
I've just read that photographs on the iPhone 5 may be haunted by
a purple tint, that could have your doctor unnecessarily worried...

A "family" desktop PC is more likely to be sold with a separate
poseable webcam or use-as-you-wish camera than one built in to the
monitor, but it happens - here's a 3D one -

http://www.techit.in/2011/01/lenovo-announces-3d-gaming-monitor-powered-by-nvidia-3d-vision-also-has-a-3d-webcam/

- and on a laptop or tablet, where fitting an accessory is likely
to be clumsy in use, the camera is liable to appear as a standard
included component. Having said that, what you may /see/ is a little
black dot, a tiny lens, with a light next to it that just shows you
that the camera is turned on. Only, there are so many other little
lights all over these devices, you can get confused...

I use mine to read the electricity meter without personally climbing
into a little cupboard where the meter is...

[Greg Goss]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 04:47:40 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
>>>Is it a phone phone? If so, you're safe; video can hardly be sent over
>>>dial-up. Or quality audio, for that matter.
>>
>>Back in the later days of my dial-up, we were routinely getting 52
>>kbps connections on dial-up. Even without audio compression, that
>>beats CDs for bit-rate.
>
>It is interesting when I hear a radio talk show personality calling in
>from a phone. Very different voice. I haven't heard anybody sound
>hi-fi on a phone. Ever.

Ah, but that's different. Phone mikes generally cut off somewhere
aroudn 6 KHz. That's different from encoding bits onto the phone line
at 52 Kbps. CDs use 44 Kbps, so an encoded and decoded phone used
digitally can beat CD quality. But that's different than phoning it
in.

I've been listening to a finance podcast called Financial Sense
Newshour. A lot of the show is interaction between the main host and
a regular. For much of the twokays the regular was connecting in from
a home studio via dial-up which was mentioned a few times. But it was
still studio quality.

>I played with my iPhone's video calling feature - at my daughter's
>house where we could use wi-fi. The grandkids thought it was fun.
>
>I'm way too cheap to have my phone use more than very minimal Verizon
>minutes.

I don't have a data plan with my current smartphone nor with my
previous smartphone. Too expensive. But WiFi is pretty widespread,
especially if your employer has employee accessible wifi like the temp
employer I had in September.

[Greg Goss]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

>The quality of the result would depend on the quality of the camera
>and lighting; a camera with its own light probably would be useful.

There is a tiny clear nodule next to the camera lens on my current
smartphone. I assume it's an LED for illumination, but I have no idea
how to enable it. It doesn't come on automatically when I try to snap
a picture in the dark.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 02:26:51 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
<news:fb5f1109-0017-4b40...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> I also suspect that any science fiction fan who has the
> opportunity to use a videophone, that he or she /owns/,
> and doesn't do it, is, deep down, quite embarrassed about
> that betrayal of the cause!

No.

Brian

[David Mitchell]

On 06/10/12 15:34, Joseph Nebus wrote:
> I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
> fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
> minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
> of story that's now unforgivably neglected.
>
> So, ah, what kind of story is that?

Right.

<Rolls sleeves up. Cracks knuckles>

Reason

--
David Mitchell
No, not that one.

[David Mitchell]

On 06/10/12 15:34, Joseph Nebus wrote:
> I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
> fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
> minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
> of story that's now unforgivably neglected.
>
> So, ah, what kind of story is that?

Right.

<Cracks knuckles. Rolls up sleeves. Smacks mousepad around the head
for sending a previous attempt prematurely>

Any kind of story which follows these rules:

1) A nod at good science. I'll forgive FTL, even psi; but I will throw
at the wall any book which has solar systems light years across. Kevin
J Anderson, I'm talking to you. Read a fucking book.
2) I generally don't care what you think. Really. You're not a real
person. You're a simulation of a real person by the kind of person who
became a science fiction author.
3) No fucking vampires.
4) Unless you're Peter Watts.
5) Make it big. I don't want to read hundreds of pages to discover that
the Empire has imposed a trade embargo on some hitherto unknown planet.
I want to discover that the universe is going to explode. Or implode.
I have invested time in this: I want a return. Julian May, I'm
talking to you.
6) If it involves a "personal journey", do it on your own time. See
point 2.
7) There must be force fields ;-)

[David Mitchell]

On 07/10/12 07:28, Rod Speed wrote:
> Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote
>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote

>
>>> I still wondering when "The Ongoing Adventures
>>> of Harry Potter" will be released. You know
>>> it is going to happen.
>
>> When she starts to feel pinched for cash, no doubt.
>

> Unlikely to happen.
>
> She hasn’t done anything stupid with what she has got already and
> appears to be happy to be off doing other things writing wise now.

She has also said, explicitly, that she will not write stories from the
Potterverse purely for money.

[Richard R. Hershberger]

On Oct 6, 10:34 am, nebu...@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>         I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
> fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
> minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
> of story that's now unforgivably neglected.

Silly rabbit! All the problems with science fiction could be wiped
out within minutes through the simple expedient of my being twelve
years old again.

Richard R. Hershberger

[Lynn McGuire]

On 10/7/2012 3:47 PM, Kurt Busiek wrote:
> On 2012-10-07 17:26:15 +0000, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
>
>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2012-10-07 03:42:56 +0000, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> said:
>>>
>>>> I still wondering when "The Ongoing Adventures
>>>> of Harry Potter" will be released. You know
>>>> it is going to happen.
>>>
>>> When she starts to feel pinched for cash, no doubt.
>>
>> Maybe, but she seems to be doing okay so far:
>> http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2012/10/02/rowling-best-seller-casual-vacancy/1608217/
>
> Yeah,
>>
> she might be able to hold out a while.
>
> kdb

But there is that 95% top tax bracket in the
UK ...

Lynn

[the doctor]

>--- Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote --

>
> But there is that 95% top tax bracket in th

> UK ..

No there isn't.

---
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "

-- General "Buck" Turgidson

--- QUARKware (QBBS) 7.1 - QUARKnntp 0.9
* TARDIS BBS - Home of QUARKware * telnet bbs.cortex-media.info

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:29:37 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>>>Back in the later days of my dial-up, we were routinely getting 52
>>>kbps connections on dial-up. Even without audio compression, that
>>>beats CDs for bit-rate.
>>
>>It is interesting when I hear a radio talk show personality calling in
>>from a phone. Very different voice. I haven't heard anybody sound
>>hi-fi on a phone. Ever.
>
>Ah, but that's different. Phone mikes generally cut off somewhere
>aroudn 6 KHz. That's different from encoding bits onto the phone line
>at 52 Kbps. CDs use 44 Kbps, so an encoded and decoded phone used
>digitally can beat CD quality. But that's different than phoning it
>in.

The weakest chain link rules.

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 14:40:44 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>>I also suspect that any science fiction fan who has the opportunity
>>to use a videophone, that he or she /owns/, and doesn't do it,
>>is, deep down, quite embarrassed about that betrayal of the cause!
>
>Wherefore in the pluperfect past tense would I want to use a
>videophone? Do the people I make calls to, who are almost
>exclusively the receptionists at doctors' offices, with whom I
>must make an appointment, need to look at my face? Do they WANT
>to?

I don't know why I would want to use one either. But I will note
that people made a similar criticism about audio phones when they came
out.

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 20:40:34 +0100, David Mitchell
<david.robo...@gmail.com> wrote:

><Cracks knuckles. Rolls up sleeves. Smacks mousepad around the head
>for sending a previous attempt prematurely>
>
>Any kind of story which follows these rules:
>
>1) A nod at good science. I'll forgive FTL, even psi; but I will throw
>at the wall any book which has solar systems light years across. Kevin
>J Anderson, I'm talking to you. Read a fucking book.

Psi requires a real good writer these days (although I still read
Schmitz).

>2) I generally don't care what you think. Really. You're not a real
>person. You're a simulation of a real person by the kind of person who
>became a science fiction author.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

>3) No fucking vampires.
>4) Unless you're Peter Watts.

I've read a couple of vampire books I like. If they are intellectual
enough I can enjoy them - or in one case, funny enough. I haven't
read Peter Watts.

It's zombies that go way beyond my willingness to stoop.

>5) Make it big. I don't want to read hundreds of pages to discover that
>the Empire has imposed a trade embargo on some hitherto unknown planet.
> I want to discover that the universe is going to explode. Or implode.
> I have invested time in this: I want a return. Julian May, I'm
>talking to you.

Julian May has gone past my psi limit, so I haven't read whatever you
are referring to. I don't mind SF of a global scale.

>6) If it involves a "personal journey", do it on your own time. See
>point 2.

I want my characters to be personal. But I suspect I don't
understand what you're saying, as I didn't in point 2.

>7) There must be force fields ;-)

--

[Rod Speed]

"Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
news:k4vgfd$v20$1...@dont-email.me...

Hasn’t been anything like that for a long time now
http://www.tax-calculators.co.uk/incometaxbands.html

[Lynn McGuire]

Ah, so they have changed since the Beatles days:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyu5sFzWLk8
"That's one for you, nineteen for me..."

Lynn

[Greg Goss]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:29:37 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
>>>>Back in the later days of my dial-up, we were routinely getting 52
>>>>kbps connections on dial-up. Even without audio compression, that
>>>>beats CDs for bit-rate.
>>>
>>>It is interesting when I hear a radio talk show personality calling in
>>>from a phone. Very different voice. I haven't heard anybody sound
>>>hi-fi on a phone. Ever.
>>
>>Ah, but that's different. Phone mikes generally cut off somewhere
>>aroudn 6 KHz. That's different from encoding bits onto the phone line
>>at 52 Kbps. CDs use 44 Kbps, so an encoded and decoded phone used
>>digitally can beat CD quality. But that's different than phoning it
>>in.
>
>The weakest chain link rules.

Right. And I remember the explanation that 2400 baud (about half of
that 6K I mentioned earlier) was the theoretical limit for modems.

Now if you run a steel cable down the middle of your chain, the
strength of one link matters very little.

If a 52 Kbps link is available end to end, what weak link do you think
exists?

[Kurt Busiek]

> But there is that 95% top tax bracket in the
> UK ...

I'm guessing she'll be able to hold out for a little while, at least.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!

[JRStern]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 20:40:34 +0100, David Mitchell
<david.robo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>3) No fucking vampires.

Yeah, I can live with that, had enough vampires long, looong ago.

>5) Make it big. I don't want to read hundreds of pages to discover that
>the Empire has imposed a trade embargo on some hitherto unknown planet.
> I want to discover that the universe is going to explode. Or implode.

This one, I dunno. Niven long ago warned that eventually you run out
of event horizon, and then he fell victim to the same thing at the end
of whateverthehell that last Ringworld sequel was (and that wasn't
even the whole universe, just a single Ringworld ... xxx).

Managing scope and scale is an issue, but it can all be in a drop of
water, if it comes to that.

J.

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:20:26 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>>>Ah, but that's different. Phone mikes generally cut off somewhere
>>>aroudn 6 KHz. That's different from encoding bits onto the phone line
>>>at 52 Kbps. CDs use 44 Kbps, so an encoded and decoded phone used
>>>digitally can beat CD quality. But that's different than phoning it
>>>in.
>>
>>The weakest chain link rules.
>
>Right. And I remember the explanation that 2400 baud (about half of
>that 6K I mentioned earlier) was the theoretical limit for modems.
>
>Now if you run a steel cable down the middle of your chain, the
>strength of one link matters very little.
>
>If a 52 Kbps link is available end to end, what weak link do you think
>exists?

You seem to think it is the microphone. That seems reasonable to me.
All I know is that the fidelity is way less than CD quality.

[Moriarty]

On Oct 9, 6:40 am, David Mitchell <david.robot.mitch...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 06/10/12 15:34, Joseph Nebus wrote:
>
> >          I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
> > fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
> > minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
> > of story that's now unforgivably neglected.
>
> >          So, ah, what kind of story is that?
>
> Right.
>
> <Cracks knuckles.  Rolls up sleeves.  Smacks mousepad around the head
> for sending a previous attempt prematurely>
>
> Any kind of story which follows these rules:

<snip>

> 3) No fucking vampires.

To deliberately mis-interpret David's words, are there any authors who
do vampires that don't fuck like crazed rabbits in heat? I don't
really read the genre but it seems to me that most vampire stories
these days feature Vlad or Vladina with the libido turned up to 11.

Anne Rice's vamps were chaste. Any others?

-Moriarty

[Rod Speed]

"Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message

news:k4vlcn$r2n$2...@dont-email.me...

Yeah, the whole of western europe did too.

Denmark even had over 100% for a while, barking mad.

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 17:36:37 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
<blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:

>> 3) No fucking vampires.
>
>To deliberately mis-interpret David's words, are there any authors who
>do vampires that don't fuck like crazed rabbits in heat? I don't
>really read the genre but it seems to me that most vampire stories
>these days feature Vlad or Vladina with the libido turned up to 11.

So I've been told. I'm not a fan of such.

>Anne Rice's vamps were chaste. Any others?

I thought the stereotypical vampire was shared blood, not other body
fluids. I've read one vampire novel by Brust, two by Hambly, and
two by Moore that I liked to various degrees. They were more
stereotypical.

[William Hyde]

On Oct 8, 8:45 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
>
> news:k4vlcn$r2n$2...@dont-email.me...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10/8/2012 5:22 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>
> >> "Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
> >>news:k4vgfd$v20$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>> On 10/7/2012 3:47 PM, Kurt Busiek wrote:

> >>>> On 2012-10-07 17:26:15 +0000, Konrad Gaertner <kgaert...@tx.rr.com>

> >>>> said:
>
> >>>>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>
> >>>>>> On 2012-10-07 03:42:56 +0000, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> said:
>
> >>>>>>> I still wondering when "The Ongoing Adventures
> >>>>>>> of Harry Potter" will be released.  You know
> >>>>>>> it is going to happen.
>
> >>>>>> When she starts to feel pinched for cash, no doubt.
>
> >>>>> Maybe, but she seems to be doing okay so far:

> >>>>>http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2012/10/02/rowling-best-sell...

>
> >>>> Yeah,
>
> >>>> she might be able to hold out a while.
>
> >>>> kdb
>
> >>> But there is that 95% top tax bracket in the UK ...
>
> >> Hasn’t been anything like that for a long time  now
> >>http://www.tax-calculators.co.uk/incometaxbands.html
>
> > Ah, so they have changed since the Beatles days:
> >    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyu5sFzWLk8
> > "That's one for you, nineteen for me..."
>
> Yeah, the whole of western europe did too.
>
> Denmark even had over 100% for a while, barking mad.

There was a case in Sweden in the 1970s in which an author of
children's books was presented with a tax bill of just over 100%, if I
recall correctly, it was 102%. Her income taxes were below 100%, but
as she was self-employed, she had to pay both the employer and
employee payroll taxes, which brought her over 100.

She wrote a polite letter to whoever handled these matters, pointing
out that it was absurd that she pay more than she earned in taxes, but
got back a brusque reply telling her that she did indeed owe 102%.

So she wrote this up in a children's story which she published in a
major Swedish newspaper. The government looked absurd, and a cap on
the tax rate was hastily (and I hope retroactively) enacted some
distance below 100%. IIRC, 95%.

William Hyde

[William Hyde]

On Oct 8, 5:27 pm, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
> On 10/7/2012 3:47 PM, Kurt Busiek wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2012-10-07 17:26:15 +0000, Konrad Gaertner <kgaert...@tx.rr.com> said:
>
> >> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>
> >>> On 2012-10-07 03:42:56 +0000, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> said:
>
> >>>> I still wondering when "The Ongoing Adventures
> >>>> of Harry Potter" will be released.  You know
> >>>> it is going to happen.
>
> >>> When she starts to feel pinched for cash, no doubt.
>
> >> Maybe, but she seems to be doing okay so far:

> >>http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2012/10/02/rowling-best-sell...

>
> > Yeah,
>
> > she might be able to hold out a while.
>
> > kdb
>
> But there is that 95% top tax bracket in the
> UK ...

It's not 1969 any longer.

You may want to google "Maggie Thatcher".

William Hyde

[Robert Carnegie]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:20:26 AM UTC+1, Greg Goss wrote:
> Right. And I remember the explanation that 2400 baud (about half of
> that 6K I mentioned earlier) was the theoretical limit for modems.

33.6kbps, IIRC.

> Now if you run a steel cable down the middle of your chain, the
> strength of one link matters very little.
>
> If a 52 Kbps link is available end to end, what weak link do you think
> exists?

Also IIRC, 33.6kbps really is the limit of encoding and upload from, say,
a household modem, by analogue phone line, onto the Internet. It can be
beaten only for download, and by a variable amount depending on...

Actually: try,
<http://www.10stripe.com/articles/why-is-56k-the-fastest-dialup-modem-speed.php>

"you will never be able to connect at a speed faster than 53.3 kbit/s."

Although this doesn't seem to describe the asymmetry that I thought
I knew about.

[Greg Goss]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:20:26 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
>>>>Ah, but that's different. Phone mikes generally cut off somewhere
>>>>aroudn 6 KHz. That's different from encoding bits onto the phone line
>>>>at 52 Kbps. CDs use 44 Kbps, so an encoded and decoded phone used
>>>>digitally can beat CD quality. But that's different than phoning it
>>>>in.
>>>
>>>The weakest chain link rules.
>>
>>Right. And I remember the explanation that 2400 baud (about half of
>>that 6K I mentioned earlier) was the theoretical limit for modems.
>>
>>Now if you run a steel cable down the middle of your chain, the
>>strength of one link matters very little.
>>
>>If a 52 Kbps link is available end to end, what weak link do you think
>>exists?
>
>You seem to think it is the microphone. That seems reasonable to me.
>All I know is that the fidelity is way less than CD quality.

Not the microphone. The data rate for sending encoded audio down the
line. Like in the example of the home studio sending digital audio
over a normal phone line on the Financial Sense Newshour podcasts.

The fidelity of someone using a telephone as an audio device sucks.
We agree on that. But you made your comment in a thread about bit
rates. There's plenty of bitrate available with a good modem.

[Greg Goss]

My modem in 2000 or so was routinely claiming 52Kbps connections, and
backed that up in downloads of zipped files. I never challenged it
for uploads. Surely a good design can reallocate the bandwidth for
whichever direction is being more demanding at a particular moment.

[Wayne Throop]

: Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org>
: My modem in 2000 or so was routinely claiming 52Kbps connections, and

: backed that up in downloads of zipped files. I never challenged it
: for uploads. Surely a good design can reallocate the bandwidth for
: whichever direction is being more demanding at a particular moment.

Well, there could easily be limitations that preclude a "good design"
when you have to make compromises for legacy decisions.

As I recall, getting above 33.6 kbps required some specifics of the
line and the central switch that were only sometimes available.
I don't strongly recall it was asymetic, though... but it could
plausibly be that what the central office guarantees to watch for on
analog subscriber lines precludes full speed. Mind you, only *could* be.

[Rod Speed]

"William Hyde" <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b15aa86e-6e8e-41a7...@q4g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...

> On Oct 8, 8:45 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:k4vlcn$r2n$2...@dont-email.me...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 10/8/2012 5:22 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>> >> "Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
>> >>news:k4vgfd$v20$1...@dont-email.me...
>> >>> On 10/7/2012 3:47 PM, Kurt Busiek wrote:
>> >>>> On 2012-10-07 17:26:15 +0000, Konrad Gaertner <kgaert...@tx.rr.com>
>> >>>> said:
>>
>> >>>>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>> On 2012-10-07 03:42:56 +0000, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> said:
>>
>> >>>>>>> I still wondering when "The Ongoing Adventures
>> >>>>>>> of Harry Potter" will be released. You know
>> >>>>>>> it is going to happen.
>>
>> >>>>>> When she starts to feel pinched for cash, no doubt.
>>
>> >>>>> Maybe, but she seems to be doing okay so far:
>> >>>>>http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2012/10/02/rowling-best-sell...
>>
>> >>>> Yeah,
>>
>> >>>> she might be able to hold out a while.
>>
>> >>>> kdb
>>
>> >>> But there is that 95% top tax bracket in the UK ...
>>

>> >> Hasn�t been anything like that for a long time now

>> >>http://www.tax-calculators.co.uk/incometaxbands.html
>>
>> > Ah, so they have changed since the Beatles days:
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyu5sFzWLk8
>> > "That's one for you, nineteen for me..."
>>
>> Yeah, the whole of western europe did too.
>>
>> Denmark even had over 100% for a while, barking mad.
>
> There was a case in Sweden in the 1970s in which an author of
> children's books was presented with a tax bill of just over 100%, if I
> recall correctly, it was 102%. Her income taxes were below 100%, but
> as she was self-employed, she had to pay both the employer and
> employee payroll taxes, which brought her over 100.
>
> She wrote a polite letter to whoever handled these matters, pointing
> out that it was absurd that she pay more than she earned in taxes, but
> got back a brusque reply telling her that she did indeed owe 102%.
>
> So she wrote this up in a children's story which she published in a
> major Swedish newspaper. The government looked absurd, and a cap on
> the tax rate was hastily (and I hope retroactively) enacted some
> distance below 100%. IIRC, 95%.

The Danish one was actually deliberate, and it was the actual tax rate
too, not just the result with other taxes added. Didn�t last all that long
tho.

Like I said, barking mad.

[Wayne Throop]

: thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
: As I recall, getting above 33.6 kbps required some specifics of the

: line and the central switch that were only sometimes available.

Stating (vaguely remembered) specifics slightly more specifically,
iirc the problem was, the line (and central switch) had to be capable of
direct digital encoding, rather than analog encoding on an audio signal.
So when you went above 33.6 kbps, it wasn't actually acting as a "modem"
in the sense of modulating and demodulating digital onto audio. There
was still a bandwidth limit for various reasons, so they couldn't use
the full possible speed of the bare copper pair of conductors (that's
where aDSL and DSL came in later), but it wasn't encoding the signal as
audio at all anymore.

Basically, there was a negotiation step where the "modem" asked the
central office "hey, can you accept direct digital, rather than encoded
audio?", and if the answer was "yes", they could cut out some overhead,
iirc. At first, mostly that negotiation step failed.

[Rod Speed]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote

> Greg Goss wrote

>> Right. And I remember the explanation that 2400 baud (about half
>> of that 6K I mentioned earlier) was the theoretical limit for modems.

> 33.6kbps, IIRC.

Fraid not.

>> Now if you run a steel cable down the middle of your chain, the
>> strength of one link matters very little.

>> If a 52 Kbps link is available end to end, what weak link do you think
>> exists?

> Also IIRC, 33.6kbps really is the limit of encoding and upload from,
> say, a household modem, by analogue phone line, onto the Internet.

Fraid not.

> It can be beaten only for download,

Fraid not.

> and by a variable amount depending on...

> Actually: try,
> <http://www.10stripe.com/articles/why-is-56k-the-fastest-dialup-modem-speed.php>

> "you will never be able to connect at a speed faster than 53.3 kbit/s."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/56_kbit/s_modem
is a lot better.

> Although this doesn't seem to describe the asymmetry that I thought I knew
> about.

Because it's a fantasy.

[Rod Speed]

Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote
> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote

>> My modem in 2000 or so was routinely claiming 52Kbps connections,
>> and backed that up in downloads of zipped files. I never challenged
>> it for uploads. Surely a good design can reallocate the bandwidth for
>> whichever direction is being more demanding at a particular moment.

> Well, there could easily be limitations that preclude a "good design"
> when you have to make compromises for legacy decisions.

> As I recall, getting above 33.6 kbps required
> some specifics of the line and the central switch

Yes, a digital exchange.

> that were only sometimes available.

Nope, by that time the phone exchanges were mostly digital.

> I don't strongly recall it was asymetic, though... but it could
> plausibly be that what the central office guarantees to watch
> for on analog subscriber lines precludes full speed.

Utterly mangled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/56_kbit/s_modem

[Wayne Throop]

:: As I recall, getting above 33.6 kbps required some specifics of the

:: line and the central switch that were only sometimes available.

: thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
: iirc the problem was, the line (and central switch) had to be capable

: of direct digital encoding, rather than analog encoding on an audio
: signal.

Oh, and further, going over 2400 *baud* is impossible.
(You remember, way back before the big Flood, somewhere between
tyranosaurs and wolly mammoths (mine you, not mimmoths, that's not
only later, but in a divergent timeline, but I digress), when
modems where rated in "baud", not "bits per second"?)

That's why rates above 2400 are actually "bits per second", since baud
is "number of distinct tones per second" (more or less). Basically,
an audio waveform has to last long enough for the receiver to grok the
frequency, maybe phase angle, and other misc whatnots, and you can't
fit more than 2400 of them in a second. To get more bits per second,
you have to swap among more tone tokens, so even at 33.6 kbps, you're
still technically going at 2400 baud.

You could get more baud by going to higher frequencies, but this is
limiting things to what fits over phone company bandpass filters,
ie, a chunk of spectrum near the center of the human hearing range.

At least... I'm pretty sure it ws 2400. Coulda been less. 600?
Wikipedia isn't really helpful on when modems switched from binary
tonesets to more-than-two-tokens, and why. Or at lest, not with
a trivial sampling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baud

[Wayne Throop]

: "Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com>
: Nope, by that time the phone exchanges were mostly digital.

What is "that time"? At the time I bought a "56 kbps" modem,
I could still only get 33.6 kbps, and that was in a phone exchange
only slightly outside a telecom industrial park, and hence arguably
an early adopter of digital switches.

[Robert Bannister]

On 9/10/12 3:45 AM, David Mitchell wrote:
> On 07/10/12 07:28, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote
>>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote
>>

>>>> I still wondering when "The Ongoing Adventures
>>>> of Harry Potter" will be released. You know
>>>> it is going to happen.
>>
>>> When she starts to feel pinched for cash, no doubt.
>>

>> Unlikely to happen.
>>
>> She hasn’t done anything stupid with what she has got already and
>> appears to be happy to be off doing other things writing wise now.
>
> She has also said, explicitly, that she will not write stories from the
> Potterverse purely for money.
>

However, I saw her recently on TV saying that she would not rule out
another Potter-world story if a good idea came to her.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 9/10/12 6:20 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 20:40:34 +0100, David Mitchell
> <david.robo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>> 3) No fucking vampires.
>> 4) Unless you're Peter Watts.
>
> I've read a couple of vampire books I like. If they are intellectual
> enough I can enjoy them - or in one case, funny enough. I haven't
> read Peter Watts.
>
> It's zombies that go way beyond my willingness to stoop.

There books with vampires or zombies or werewolves or were-anythings
that I have enjoyed, but only a few. What irritates me is that almost
every new book these days has got one of them in and some books have all
of them.

Anyway, none of the above qualify as science fiction, although I'm not
sure what does.
--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

Agreed. The very first book I read that ended with the equivalent of
"And lo, there was light" I thought was fantastic, but you can only read
about the beginning of the universe a few times.


--
Robert Bannister

[Greg Goss]

I was in a new building. I don't know how new the local Telus office
was. My modem was routinely getting 26 to 32 Kbps until I installed
it into a new computer. I couldn't find the drivers disk so went
looking on the web, and downloaded something from a site written in
chinese. (remember trusting software from the web?). With the new
drivers, it would achieve 52Kbps (and not just a claim -- the speed
was backed up by downloads of zip files).

This was a mostly software modem, so new "drivers" could completely
rewrite its feature set.

So what you describe is plausible. After the software update, the
modem picked up the feature that could ask the central office for a
digital connection. The other end of that line was a 600 line BBS
whose modems were probably already pretty virtualized.

So your hypothesis undercuts my claim. If the modem was talking
direct digital, then it was halfway to DSL rather than proving what
could be done on an audio line.

[Greg Goss]

thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:

>Oh, and further, going over 2400 *baud* is impossible.
>(You remember, way back before the big Flood, somewhere between
>tyranosaurs and wolly mammoths (mine you, not mimmoths, that's not
>only later, but in a divergent timeline, but I digress), when
>modems where rated in "baud", not "bits per second"?)
>
>That's why rates above 2400 are actually "bits per second", since baud
>is "number of distinct tones per second" (more or less). Basically,
>an audio waveform has to last long enough for the receiver to grok the
>frequency, maybe phase angle, and other misc whatnots, and you can't
>fit more than 2400 of them in a second. To get more bits per second,
>you have to swap among more tone tokens, so even at 33.6 kbps, you're
>still technically going at 2400 baud.
>
>You could get more baud by going to higher frequencies, but this is
>limiting things to what fits over phone company bandpass filters,
>ie, a chunk of spectrum near the center of the human hearing range.
>
>At least... I'm pretty sure it ws 2400. Coulda been less. 600?
>Wikipedia isn't really helpful on when modems switched from binary
>tonesets to more-than-two-tokens, and why. Or at lest, not with
>a trivial sampling.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baud
>

The theoretical limit was high-end cutoff divided by two, if I recall.
A lot of phone lines cut off at 6KHz, leaving you with a 3000 baud
limit.

But even by 1200 BPS they had abandoned BPS=baud. The 1200 to 14400
used one set of tricks to get past that theoretical limit, then the
even-higher modems used other tricks, neither set of which I ever
understood.

The Commodore modems were really simplistic tone generators with most
of the work being done by the host computer driving them. Thus they
could be modified with software changes. It was common for Commodore
computers to talk to other Commodores at 450 baud reliably or rather
flakily at 600. Using modems labeled as 300 baud modems.

[Rod Speed]

Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote
> Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote

>> As I recall, getting above 33.6 kbps required some specifics of the
>> line and the central switch that were only sometimes available.

> Stating (vaguely remembered) specifics slightly more
> specifically, iirc the problem was, the line (and central
> switch) had to be capable of direct digital encoding,

In fact it was actually about whether the connection
you got was end to end analog or whether it was
digital for other than the local loop at each end.

> rather than analog encoding on an audio signal. So when you
> went above 33.6 kbps, it wasn't actually acting as a "modem"
> in the sense of modulating and demodulating digital onto audio.

It still was.

> There was still a bandwidth limit for various reasons, so they
> couldn't use the full possible speed of the bare copper pair
> of conductors (that's where aDSL and DSL came in later),
> but it wasn't encoding the signal as audio at all anymore.

Utterly mangled all over again.

> Basically, there was a negotiation step where the "modem"
> asked the central office "hey, can you accept direct digital,
> rather than encoded audio?",

Nope, the negotiation wasn�t in fact about that.

> and if the answer was "yes", they could cut out some overhead, iirc.

Utterly mangled all over again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/56_kbit/s_modem

> At first, mostly that negotiation step failed.

That�s just plain wrong too.

[Robert A. Woodward]

In article
<b15aa86e-6e8e-41a7...@q4g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,

William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 8, 8:45�pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "Lynn McGuire" <l...@winsim.com> wrote in message
> >

<SNIP re: British taxes>

> >
> > > Ah, so they have changed since the Beatles days:
> > > � �http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyu5sFzWLk8
> > > "That's one for you, nineteen for me..."
> >
> > Yeah, the whole of western europe did too.
> >
> > Denmark even had over 100% for a while, barking mad.
>
> There was a case in Sweden in the 1970s in which an author of
> children's books was presented with a tax bill of just over 100%, if I
> recall correctly, it was 102%. Her income taxes were below 100%, but
> as she was self-employed, she had to pay both the employer and
> employee payroll taxes, which brought her over 100.
>
> She wrote a polite letter to whoever handled these matters, pointing
> out that it was absurd that she pay more than she earned in taxes, but
> got back a brusque reply telling her that she did indeed owe 102%.
>
> So she wrote this up in a children's story which she published in a
> major Swedish newspaper. The government looked absurd, and a cap on
> the tax rate was hastily (and I hope retroactively) enacted some
> distance below 100%. IIRC, 95%.

The author in question was Astrid Lindgren, writer of the Pipi
Longstocking stories.

--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>

[Rod Speed]

Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>> Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote
>>> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote

>>>> My modem in 2000 or so was routinely claiming 52Kbps connections,
>>>> and backed that up in downloads of zipped files. I never challenged
>>>> it for uploads. Surely a good design can reallocate the bandwidth for
>>>> whichever direction is being more demanding at a particular moment.

>>> Well, there could easily be limitations that preclude a "good design"
>>> when you have to make compromises for legacy decisions.

>>> As I recall, getting above 33.6 kbps required
>>> some specifics of the line and the central switch

>> Yes, a digital exchange.

>>> that were only sometimes available.

>> Nope, by that time the phone exchanges were mostly digital.

> What is "that time"?

At the time the 56K modems showed up. That�s what allowed them.

> At the time I bought a "56 kbps" modem, I could still
> only get 33.6 kbps, and that was in a phone exchange
> only slightly outside a telecom industrial park, and
> hence arguably an early adopter of digital switches.

But it was actually still a crossbar exchange.

[David Mitchell]

On 08/10/12 23:20, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 20:40:34 +0100, David Mitchell
> <david.robo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>> <Cracks knuckles. Rolls up sleeves. Smacks mousepad around the head
>> for sending a previous attempt prematurely>
>>
>> Any kind of story which follows these rules:
>>
>

>> 2) I generally don't care what you think. Really. You're not a real
>> person. You're a simulation of a real person by the kind of person who
>> became a science fiction author.
>
> I don't understand what you're saying here.

I have the same problem with angsty introspection that I do with a lot
of fantasy world building: it's not *real* (I know that the events which
occur in the story aren't real either; but you have to have events, or
there's no story - you don't have to have page after page of
navel-gazing, or detailed description of the guild structure of an
imaginary city).

Desperate for words in a line, I recently read _Blood Noir_, by Laurel K
Hamilton (I think that's correct - didn't bother to remember in detail,
just enough to avoid in future).

By the time I'd got to page 244, nothing significant had happened,
except that Anita Blake and some male friend of hers had discussed their
feelings, and those of everyone they knew, in more detail than my
significant other and I have in the last 20 years.

> I've read a couple of vampire books I like. If they are intellectual
> enough I can enjoy them - or in one case, funny enough. I haven't
> read Peter Watts.

I strongly recommend that you do:
http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm

--
David Mitchell
No, not that one.

[Rod Speed]

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote
> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote
>> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote

>>> As I recall, getting above 33.6 kbps required some specifics of the
>>> line and the central switch that were only sometimes available.

>> Stating (vaguely remembered) specifics slightly more specifically,
>> iirc the problem was, the line (and central switch) had to be capable of
>> direct digital encoding, rather than analog encoding on an audio signal.
>> So when you went above 33.6 kbps, it wasn't actually acting as a "modem"
>> in the sense of modulating and demodulating digital onto audio. There
>> was still a bandwidth limit for various reasons, so they couldn't use
>> the full possible speed of the bare copper pair of conductors (that's
>> where aDSL and DSL came in later), but it wasn't encoding the signal as
>> audio at all anymore.

>> Basically, there was a negotiation step where the "modem" asked
>> the central office "hey, can you accept direct digital, rather than
>> encoded audio?", and if the answer was "yes", they could cut out
>> some overhead, iirc. At first, mostly that negotiation step failed.

> I was in a new building. I don't know how new the local Telus office
> was. My modem was routinely getting 26 to 32 Kbps until I installed
> it into a new computer. I couldn't find the drivers disk so went
> looking on the web, and downloaded something from a site written in
> chinese. (remember trusting software from the web?). With the new
> drivers, it would achieve 52Kbps (and not just a claim -- the speed
> was backed up by downloads of zip files).

> This was a mostly software modem, so new "drivers"
> could completely rewrite its feature set.

And do anything it liked on the phone line using the
DSP that's all the modem actually was technology wise.

> So what you describe is plausible.

Nope.

> After the software update, the modem picked up the feature
> that could ask the central office for a digital connection.

That isnt how 56K modems work.

> The other end of that line was a 600 line BBS whose
> modems were probably already pretty virtualized.

That's not what its about either.

> So your hypothesis undercuts my claim.

It isnt a hypothesis and he mangled the story utterly.

> If the modem was talking direct digital,

It cant do that. The local loop is still analog between
the modem and the line card in the exchange.

> then it was halfway to DSL

Nope, DSL is a different approach entirely, with
the modulation on the analog local loop being
at MUCH higher than audio frequencys.

> rather than proving what could be done on an audio line.

It wasn't doing that either.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <adhnkv...@mid.individual.net>,

My memory is that 52K modems work by cheating. You could only get
that speed if the place you were dialing into was equiped with digital
phone lines as this enabled them to skip a step somehow. This was
OK since most ISPs were equipped that way anyway.

If you bought two 52k modems and connected them over POTS with one
at your house and one at your grandma's, you would never get more
than 33.6K between them.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[David DeLaney]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>>2) I generally don't care what you think. Really. You're not a real
>>person. You're a simulation of a real person by the kind of person who
>>became a science fiction author.
>
>I don't understand what you're saying here.

He doesn't want to read the characters schmoozing about their feelings, or
explaining to each other why they're doing what they do when, as it turns
out, that's basically the same reason a normal person would do it, except
it's vast and strange to the AUTHOR. Yes?

>>5) Make it big. I don't want to read hundreds of pages to discover that
>>the Empire has imposed a trade embargo on some hitherto unknown planet.
>> I want to discover that the universe is going to explode. Or implode.

>> I have invested time in this: I want a return. Julian May, I'm
>>talking to you.
>
>Julian May has gone past my psi limit, so I haven't read whatever you
>are referring to. I don't mind SF of a global scale.

See also: Paul Park. I don't care, I don't care, yes I like the background
you're developing, but for god's sake DO SOMETHING mr protagonist!

Though I was able to stand Julian May, both her Pleistocene and her later Moon
series...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[David DeLaney]

Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>To deliberately mis-interpret David's words, are there any authors who
>do vampires that don't fuck like crazed rabbits in heat? I don't
>really read the genre but it seems to me that most vampire stories
>these days feature Vlad or Vladina with the libido turned up to 11.
>

>Anne Rice's vamps were chaste. Any others?

Ilona Andrews, I think it is, has vampires which are actually mindless ravening
predatory beasts, kept under control and mentally "ridden" by necromancers
as a sort of remote-control super-suit. Her werewolves, werehyenas, etc.,
are doing enough of the sexytime to make up for it.

Hendee's vampires, well, the main one on-screen _wants_ to have a relationship
with this one lady he travels with, but there's complications...

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <slrnk77g0...@gatekeeper.vic.com>,

David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>>To deliberately mis-interpret David's words, are there any authors who
>>do vampires that don't fuck like crazed rabbits in heat? I don't
>>really read the genre but it seems to me that most vampire stories
>>these days feature Vlad or Vladina with the libido turned up to 11.
>>
>>Anne Rice's vamps were chaste. Any others?
>
>Ilona Andrews, I think it is, has vampires which are actually mindless ravening
>predatory beasts, kept under control and mentally "ridden" by necromancers
>as a sort of remote-control super-suit. Her werewolves, werehyenas, etc.,
>are doing enough of the sexytime to make up for it.
>
>Hendee's vampires, well, the main one on-screen _wants_ to have a relationship
>with this one lady he travels with, but there's complications...
>

Yeah, she's boring :-)

[David Mitchell]

On 09/10/12 07:38, David DeLaney wrote:
> Howard Brazee<how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>>> 2) I generally don't care what you think. Really. You're not a real
>>> person. You're a simulation of a real person by the kind of person who
>>> became a science fiction author.
>>
>> I don't understand what you're saying here.
>
> He doesn't want to read the characters schmoozing about their feelings, or
> explaining to each other why they're doing what they do when, as it turns
> out, that's basically the same reason a normal person would do it, except
> it's vast and strange to the AUTHOR. Yes?

Yes. I don't really "get" feelings, even in real life - possibly I;m
too British; so I really, really, don't care what imaginary people are
feeling.

[Rod Speed]

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote

> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote

>> Oh, and further, going over 2400 *baud* is impossible.
>> (You remember, way back before the big Flood, somewhere
>> between tyranosaurs and wolly mammoths (mine you, not
>> mimmoths, that's not only later, but in a divergent timeline, but I
>> digress), when modems where rated in "baud", not "bits per second"?)

>> That's why rates above 2400 are actually "bits per second", since baud
>> is "number of distinct tones per second" (more or less). Basically,
>> an audio waveform has to last long enough for the receiver to grok the
>> frequency, maybe phase angle, and other misc whatnots, and you can't
>> fit more than 2400 of them in a second. To get more bits per second,
>> you have to swap among more tone tokens, so even at 33.6 kbps, you're
>> still technically going at 2400 baud.

>> You could get more baud by going to higher frequencies, but this
>> is limiting things to what fits over phone company bandpass filters,
>> ie, a chunk of spectrum near the center of the human hearing range.

>> At least... I'm pretty sure it ws 2400. Coulda been less. 600?
>> Wikipedia isn't really helpful on when modems switched from binary
>> tonesets to more-than-two-tokens, and why. Or at lest, not with
>> a trivial sampling.

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baud

> The theoretical limit was high-end cutoff divided by two, if I recall.

Fraid not.

> A lot of phone lines cut off at 6KHz,

Nope, try 3.4K

> leaving you with a 3000 baud limit.

56K modems don't even have anything like a baud with QAM modulation.

> But even by 1200 BPS they had abandoned BPS=baud.
> The 1200 to 14400 used one set of tricks to get past
> that theoretical limit, then the even-higher modems
> used other tricks, neither set of which I ever understood.

They used more sophisticated modulation methods than
the PSK modems where the concept of a baud made sense.

[Rod Speed]

Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote

> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote
>> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote

>>> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote

Nope, no 'cheating' whatever involved.

> You could only get that speed if the place you were
> dialing into was equiped with digital phone lines

It wasn�t digital phone lines, it was a digital EXCHANGE that matters.

> as this enabled them to skip a step somehow.

Nope, just allows better bandwidth than with
a circuit that was analog from end to end.

> This was OK since most ISPs were equipped that way anyway.

> If you bought two 52k modems and connected them over
> POTS with one at your house and one at your grandma's,
> you would never get more than 33.6K between them.

That�s just plain wrong. Plenty of BBSs operated like that.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <vau1785kjdnv2lrdv...@4ax.com>, jack...@bright.net writes:
>Joseph Nebus wrote:

>> I think we can all agree that all the problems with science
>>fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
>>minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
>>of story that's now unforgivably neglected.
>>
>> So, ah, what kind of story is that?
>
>A dangerous situation, trapping the hero until he remembers the one
>science fact that can get him out of it. "Marooned off Vesta",

Yeah, right. More stories like "Marooned off Vesta" are just what's
needed to pump up the genre.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 4:47:29 AM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote

>
> > Also IIRC, 33.6kbps really is the limit of encoding and upload from,
> > say, a household modem, by analogue phone line, onto the Internet.
>
> Fraid not.
>
> > It can be beaten only for download,
>
> Fraid not.
>
> > and by a variable amount depending on...
>
> > Actually: try,
> > <http://www.10stripe.com/articles/why-is-56k-the-fastest-dialup-modem-speed.php>
>
> > "you will never be able to connect at a speed faster than 53.3 kbit/s."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/56_kbit/s_modem
> is a lot better.
>
> > Although this doesn't seem to describe the asymmetry that I thought I knew
> > about.
>
> Because it's a fantasy.

Your Wikipedia page: "The upload speed is 33.6 kbit/s if an analog
voiceband modem is used (V.90), or 48.0 kbit/s using a digital
modem (V.92)." /Thank/ you.

"V.92 was first presented in August 1999. It was intended to succeed
the V.90 standards; however, with the spread of broadband Internet
access, uptake was minimal."

[Michael Stemper]

In article <df83d1f8-5263-4acd...@v19g2000pbt.googlegroups.com>, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> writes:

>On Oct 6, 8:34=A0am, nebu...@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:

>> fiction as a genre and a fandom these days could be wiped out within
>> minutes if people would just start up again writing the correct kind
>> of story that's now unforgivably neglected.

>No. I don't agree.
>
>Because while there is a kind of story that people are nostalgic
>about, for authors to simply try writing that kind of story again
>won't, by itself, wipe out the problem.
>
>People would also have to _read_ that kind of story again, in
>sustainable numbers.

That ship has sailed, yeah.

>Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Simak, Leinster... one can look at the works
>of the acknowledged "greats" of science-fiction to find out what type
>of story we are nostalgic for.
>
>But if people start from today, and try to imagine what the future
>might plausibly be, the result looks more like _Blade Runner_ than
>_Forbidden Planet_.

From where I sit, that's preferable. That means the planet we're on
isn't going to explode in 24 hours.

[Mark Zenier]

In article <MBKwr...@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <fb5f1109-0017-4b40...@googlegroups.com>,
...
>>Okay, maybe you don't have a videophone. But I still say that
>>"most people in the developed world, probably," have one.
>>Yes, that's a bit squirmy. On the other hand, it's not counting
>>personal computers, especially laptops, fitted with cameras,
>>and able to run the software.
>
>My PC doesn't have a camera either. It *was* equipped, when Hal
>bought it*, to act like a television set. It had extra keys on
>its keyboard to enable this dubious effect. I kept hitting those
>keys by mistake -- sometimes *right in the middle of a fight on
>LotRO* -- so I plugged in a different keyboard that wouldn't do
>annoying things like that.
>>
>>I also suspect that any science fiction fan who has the opportunity
>>to use a videophone, that he or she /owns/, and doesn't do it,
>>is, deep down, quite embarrassed about that betrayal of the cause!
>
>Wherefore in the pluperfect past tense would I want to use a
>videophone? Do the people I make calls to, who are almost
>exclusively the receptionists at doctors' offices, with whom I
>must make an appointment, need to look at my face? Do they WANT
>to?

This brings to mind the short story about, after the widespread
introduction of the video phone, people were getting more and more
anxiety about their appearances, going to efforts to make sure that they
looked good. Until one harried housewife used a dollop of cake batter
to solve her problem.

Details: (probably) Analog in the early-mid 1970's.
Might have been one of the Bell Labs writers (Pierce, Plauger).

Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

[Mark Zenier]

In article <adfpab...@mid.individual.net>,
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Oct 7, 10:44 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>> My phone plugs into the wall.  It has no video, or I hope to
>>> goodness it doesn't.
>>
>>Is it a phone phone? If so, you're safe; video can hardly be sent over
>>dial-up. Or quality audio, for that matter.
>
>Back in the later days of my dial-up, we were routinely getting 52
>kbps connections on dial-up. Even without audio compression, that
>beats CDs for bit-rate.

Er, 44100*16*2 > 52000

[Wayne Throop]

:: Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Simak, Leinster... one can look at the

:: works of the acknowledged "greats" of science-fiction to find out
:: what type of story we are nostalgic for.
::
:: But if people start from today, and try to imagine what the future
:: might plausibly be, the result looks more like _Blade Runner_ than
:: _Forbidden Planet_.

Seems to me something more like Rainbows End out-plausibles Blade
Runner (the movie, not the book... but OK, the book too (from today's
perspective)). Of course, in some respects they are quite similar
(the BR movie to the RE book) as a glimpses of a possible future, but
imo Fast Times at Fairmont High was pretty much a short-ish story with
a sociological puzzle in it. So it *can* be done. IMO. Sort of.

Or put another way (or maybe, "or on a tangential point"), plausible
futures don't have to be unremittingly grim, and contain stratified
societies with horrific slums for the lower, far more numerous strata,
and egregious sapient rights violations to boot.

Well, OK, plausible seems to include slums and sapient rights violations
as a matter of course, but not quite so numerous and horrific as to
be total turnoffs to puzzle-loving geekdom.

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; in article, <adhnkv...@mid.individual.net>,
go...@gossg.org "Greg Goss" wrote:
>thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
>[> ?]
>>>thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
>[>>> already snipped]

- there were two competing proprietary 56k ?protocols?, one of
them k56flex and the other (?); demon (back before it was sold
to scottish telecom - later thus plc, and downgraded to merely
a brand thereof, who were themselves bought by clueless+witless,
whose "worldwide" business has now bought or is being bought by
vodafone for its national telecomms backbone, probably unaware
they'[ve,re] an isp (?)) ran romps of "not-modems" dedicated to
either one or the other until the eventual industry standard was
agreed upon; there was one further increase, from 57,600 up to
115,200 which this DOS 'net suite was upgraded for, that saw an
industry standard agreed upon; i believe there's since been two
or more systems attaining 230k, but no agreement upon the method
of achieving this. (and my wet string here in the north-wet is
in any case seemingly inapable of reliably supporting 115,200 :-()

- love, a ppint. who needs to start investigating broadband rsn

[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"homeopathic compression: throw away the data and transmit the spaces;
the data to be reconstructed from the spaces by virtue of these having
remembered its shape. the only compression method more effective with
increasing original data density." - yr hmbl srppnt, 1st october 2004

[Michael Stemper]

In article <k51l1...@enews4.newsguy.com>, mze...@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) writes:
>In article <MBKwr...@kithrup.com>, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>In article <fb5f1109-0017-4b40...@googlegroups.com>,

>>>I also suspect that any science fiction fan who has the opportunity
>>>to use a videophone, that he or she /owns/, and doesn't do it,
>>>is, deep down, quite embarrassed about that betrayal of the cause!
>>
>>Wherefore in the pluperfect past tense would I want to use a
>>videophone? Do the people I make calls to, who are almost
>>exclusively the receptionists at doctors' offices, with whom I
>>must make an appointment, need to look at my face? Do they WANT
>>to?
>
>This brings to mind the short story about, after the widespread
>introduction of the video phone, people were getting more and more
>anxiety about their appearances, going to efforts to make sure that they
>looked good. Until one harried housewife used a dollop of cake batter
>to solve her problem.

How? By covering the lens?

Mad Magazine proposed using stock backdrops to give the impression that
you were in one place (e.g., the office) when calling somebody from
another place (e.g., a bar). As near as I can tell, this was in the
1956-1957 time frame.

[Wayne Throop]

: mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper)
: Mad Magazine proposed using stock backdrops to give the impression

: that you were in one place (e.g., the office) when calling somebody
: from another place (e.g., a bar). As near as I can tell, this was in
: the 1956-1957 time frame.

Clearly they stole it from Peewee's Playhouse, proving that not only
videophones exist, but that time travel does, too.

[Cryptoengineer]

On Oct 8, 5:26 pm, mzen...@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) wrote:
> In article <MBKwrw.1...@kithrup.com>,

I remember that, but nothing else. I'm pretty sure you have the
magazine and period correct.

There was more than one story about this particular housewife, another
concerned a lighting fixture that had a failure mode in which it
turned into a small black hole, sucking in household items one by one.

pt

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <adi6vj...@mid.individual.net>,

>It wasn�t digital phone lines, it was a digital EXCHANGE that matters.

>
>> as this enabled them to skip a step somehow.
>
>Nope, just allows better bandwidth than with
>a circuit that was analog from end to end.
>
>> This was OK since most ISPs were equipped that way anyway.
>
>> If you bought two 52k modems and connected them over
>> POTS with one at your house and one at your grandma's,
>> you would never get more than 33.6K between them.
>

>That�s just plain wrong. Plenty of BBSs operated like that.
>

What did I say that implied they didn't? *I* set up modems like that.
But if it's POTS all the way, you're not going to get higher than 33.6K (V.34).

[Cryptoengineer]

On Oct 9, 1:54 pm, thro...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
> : mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper)

I expect around 100 million Americans now own videophones. iPhone and
Androids with front cameras can run quite happily as videophones, over
WiFi and 3g/4g connections. I've installed Skype on my phone, and have
had videocalls with iphone users.

Any broadband connected PC (that is to say, most of them) equipped
with mike/speakers (or a headset) and a cheap video camera can also
make Skype video calls.

The main uses, as far as I can see, are for grandparents to talk to
grandchildren, and teenagers to engage in racy behaviour.

pt

[Kurt Busiek]

On 2012-10-09 06:38:35 +0000, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) said:

> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>>> 2) I generally don't care what you think. Really. You're not a real
>>> person. You're a simulation of a real person by the kind of person who
>>> became a science fiction author.
>>
>> I don't understand what you're saying here.
>
> He doesn't want to read the characters schmoozing about their feelings, or
> explaining to each other why they're doing what they do when, as it turns
> out, that's basically the same reason a normal person would do it, except
> it's vast and strange to the AUTHOR. Yes?

I'm happy to read that stuff if it's done well.

If the characters are just doing things without introspection, well,
I'm happy to read that if it's done well, too, but in general I want
some humanity on display. I'm reading a story, and want to have reasons
to care about the characters in it.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!

[James Nicoll]

In article <k51u2i$al2$1...@dont-email.me>, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>
>I'm happy to read that stuff if it's done well.
>

I got sent something from one of my mystery editors that was all about
the complicated relationships adults can find themselves in. The failure
for any crime to materialize early on added considerably to the tension
as it looked like it was building to an enormous trainwreck of carnage
and needless tragedy or at least it would have been building to that
had it actually been a mystery and not a mainstream novel about the
complicated relationships adults can find themselves in. It was engaging
but in my case only because I was reading it as the wrong genre.



--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)

[Kurt Busiek]

On 2012-10-09 19:38:27 +0000, jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:

> In article <k51u2i$al2$1...@dont-email.me>, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm happy to read that stuff if it's done well.
>>
> I got sent something from one of my mystery editors that was all about
> the complicated relationships adults can find themselves in. The failure
> for any crime to materialize early on added considerably to the tension
> as it looked like it was building to an enormous trainwreck of carnage
> and needless tragedy or at least it would have been building to that
> had it actually been a mystery and not a mainstream novel about the
> complicated relationships adults can find themselves in. It was engaging
> but in my case only because I was reading it as the wrong genre.

As I recall, there's a (fairly nonsensical) bit in Fredric Wertham's
SEDUCTION OF THE INNOCENT about how comic books ruin kids for quality
fiction because their tastes will become so debased they can't read
anything without expecting a murderer to enter the story and splatter
blood everywherre.

It's nice to see that actually crop up, in admittedly-very-specific
circumstances.