Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

ISFDB progress (was: SF by the numbers)

1 view
Skip to first unread message

Ahasuerus

unread,
Apr 6, 2008, 12:14:02 AM4/6/08
to
As I was reshuffling our (i.e. ISFDB.org's) magazine pages, I recalled
this exchange that took place some 10 weeks ago:

On Jan 22, 2008, 20:25:05 PST, Ahasuerus <ahasue...@email.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jan 22, 10:04 pm, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>[snip]
>> Also, there's the problem that the ISFDB doesn't
>> have quite everything. In fact, they're missing whole magazines; e.g.,
>> I couldn't even find Gamma (5 issues in the early 1960s) in their list
>> of magazines.
>
> Too true :( We are missing at least 129 magazine issues from the 1960s
> alone, mostly the semi-prozines and various oddballs like _The Hidden
> World_, _True Twilight Tales_ and _Prize Ghost Stories_. Worse, we still
> need to enter most of the _Marvels_, _Fantasy Books_, _Astonishings_
> and _Science Fiction_ from the Golden Age. [snip]

At this point, we have all _Gamma_, _Marvel_, _Fantasy Book_
(1947-1951), _Astonishing_, and _Science Fiction_ issues in the
database, although some still need to be verified. Our records are far
from complete, but when you take a step back and review the progress
since May 1, 2006, the day when we began beta testing ISFDB-2, it's
actually fairly impressive. On the downside, now that most of the Good
Old Stuff has been entered, those of us who handle older SF have
little choice but to concentrate on the Bad Old Stuff, which can be
quite bad indeed. I am working on _Fantasy Fiction_ (the 1950 version)
at the moment and the stench can be overwhelming at times...

mimus

unread,
Apr 6, 2008, 5:27:16 PM4/6/08
to

Please share. There's a certain awful fascination there . . . .

--

The hell with the Galactic Overlords
and their tastes in literature.

< _The Day of the Burning_

Ahasuerus

unread,
Apr 7, 2008, 1:06:32 AM4/7/08
to
On Apr 6, 5:27 pm, mimus <tinmimu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 21:14:02 -0700,Ahasuerus wrote: [snip]

> > On the downside, now that most of the Good
> > Old Stuff has been entered, those of us who handle older SF have
> > little choice but to concentrate on the Bad Old Stuff, which can be
> > quite bad indeed. I am working on _Fantasy Fiction_ (the 1950 version)
> > at the moment and the stench can be overwhelming at times...
>
> Please share. There's a certain awful fascination there . . . .

Sure. Here are a few examples from our record for 'Fantasy Stories'',
November 1950 (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?FNTSSTRSNV1950):

1. "Flying Saucer Secrets" -- a "fantasy documentary" that "can
influence the course of history". Comes complete with a mysterious
manuscript delivered to the magazine's editor!

2. Theodore Roscoe's "Leopard Teeth" is reprinted as "Her Love Was
Jungle Gold".

3. Irvin S. Cobb's "Fishhead" is reprinted as "Blood-Brother of the
Swamp Cats" (no, seriously!)

Similarly, ''Fantasy Fiction'', May 1950 (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/
pl.cgi?FNTSFCTNMM1950 - they changed titles between No. 1 and No. 2)
reprinted Theodore Roscoe's "On Account of a Woman" as "She Said "Take
Me . . . If You Dare"".

There was also a fair amount of off color material (Mickey Mouse
having pre-marital sex! - wonder what Walt Disney had to say about
that one), but it didn't make the kinds of waves that _Marvel_ had
made earlier. I guess few people in fandom noticed this unassuming
digest, Forrest J. Ackerman's contribution notwithstanding.

mimus

unread,
Apr 7, 2008, 3:31:17 PM4/7/08
to

With a presumptive pen-name like "Roscoe", well, hm . . . .

Was he the one that had Mickey doing the deed, too?

And I thought it was DC that brought on the Comics Code Authority or
wotever.

--

Kai: It must have been a very good dream.
Stanley: Nooo, not really.

< _Lexx_


Lawrence Watt-Evans

unread,
Apr 7, 2008, 4:19:45 PM4/7/08
to
On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:31:17 -0400, mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>And I thought it was DC that brought on the Comics Code Authority or
>wotever.

DC? Not hardly. You probably mean EC, though that's not even close
to the whole truth, EC fanboys notwithstanding.

The most gruesome pre-Comics Code horror comics were published by a
guy named Stanley P. Morse, under a variety of names -- SPM
Publications, Mister Publications, etc.

Runner-up was probably Harvey, which cleaned up its act so thoroughly
in 1955 that they're now remembered exclusively for the likes of
Richie Rich and Casper the Friendly Ghost, and not for the lurid stuff
in Witches Tales or Black Cat Mystery.

It's also largely forgotten that the Code was aimed at crime comics as
much as at horror, and the major target there was Lev Gleason.

Romance comics were also considered unacceptably racy, and the Code
cut those down from a PG or soft R to a G rating. I don't know that
any one company stood out in that genre.

EC, publishers of Crime SuspenStories and Tales from the Crypt, was
just one target; they get cited as the major impetus because they were
aimed at slightly older readers than most comics of the time, had lots
of devoted fans, and led the politically-ill-advised campaign against
the Code, but they really weren't that big a factor.

DC largely stayed out of the limelight during the fight, and was one
of the companies that co-founded the Comics Code Authority; they were
one of the "clean" companies, and eager to get rid of the competition.

The two companies that existed in 1954 but never did sign onto the
Code were Dell and Gilberton, and they didn't sign on because they
both had such a reputation for publishing clean, safe, respectable
comics that they didn't need any seal of approval. Dell published all
the Disney titles as well as adventure titles like The Lone Ranger and
Tarzan, while Gilberton published Classics Illustrated.


--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
The eighth issue of Helix is now at http://www.helixsf.com

Chuk Goodin

unread,
Apr 7, 2008, 6:49:56 PM4/7/08
to
On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:19:45 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>>And I thought it was DC that brought on the Comics Code Authority or
>>wotever.
>
>DC? Not hardly. You probably mean EC, though that's not even close
>to the whole truth, EC fanboys notwithstanding.
>
>The most gruesome pre-Comics Code horror comics were published by a
>guy named Stanley P. Morse, under a variety of names -- SPM
>Publications, Mister Publications, etc.
>
>Runner-up was probably Harvey, which cleaned up its act so thoroughly
>in 1955 that they're now remembered exclusively for the likes of
>Richie Rich and Casper the Friendly Ghost, and not for the lurid stuff
>in Witches Tales or Black Cat Mystery.

I was not aware of much of this (the EC and that there were others, but
not much about them). Thanks for the post. Now we just need hardback
trade collections of all these titles...


--
chuk

Ahasuerus

unread,
Apr 7, 2008, 7:53:05 PM4/7/08
to

As far as I know, it was Theodore Roscoe's (1906-1992) real name --
see, e.g., http://www.philsp.com/homeville/ISFAC/s209.htm#A3910.
Starmont House published his biography by Audrey Parente in 1992,
which may have more to say on the subject.

> Was he the one that had Mickey doing the deed, too?

The Mickey Mouse story was an uncredited five liner; they printed
quite a few of them. I don't have the magazine here to check whether
it made it explicit that the mouse in question was Mickey, but it
seemed rather obvious in context.

Mike Schilling

unread,
Apr 7, 2008, 8:09:04 PM4/7/08
to
Nothing to do with the original coversation, but so long as the right
parties are watching:

Icshi's story source (an incredible Van Vogt resource, found at
http://icshi.bingodisk.com/public/vanvogt/StorysourceV4.pdf) shows _The
Weapon Shops_ as being a fixup of three short stories:

The Seesaw -- Astounding 7/41
The Weapon Shop -- Astounding 12/42
The Weapon Shops of Isher -- Thrilling Wonder 2/49

I've read the first two. The first is about the 20th century reporter who
does not witness, but aids in, the formation of the planets. The second is
about Fara Clark and how the weapon shops save his repair business from the
greedy so-and-sos who were going to cheat him out of it. The third would,
by elimination, have to be the story of Fara's son Cayle, though I've never
seen it. ISFDB lists it as a reprint of the 1942 story
(http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?TWONSFEB1949), which seems implausible
to me.

Does anyone know what's going on here?


Ahasuerus

unread,
Apr 7, 2008, 8:19:54 PM4/7/08
to
On Apr 7, 6:09 pm, "Mike Schilling" <mscottschill...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Nothing to do with the original coversation, but so long as the right
> parties are watching:
>
> Icshi's story source (an incredible Van Vogt resource, found athttp://icshi.bingodisk.com/public/vanvogt/StorysourceV4.pdf) shows _The

> Weapon Shops_ as being a fixup of three short stories:
>
> The Seesaw -- Astounding 7/41
> The Weapon Shop -- Astounding 12/42
> The Weapon Shops of Isher -- Thrilling Wonder 2/49
>
> I've read the first two. The first is about the 20th century reporter who
> does not witness, but aids in, the formation of the planets. The second is
> about Fara Clark and how the weapon shops save his repair business from the
> greedy so-and-sos who were going to cheat him out of it. The third would,
> by elimination, have to be the story of Fara's son Cayle, though I've never
> seen it. ISFDB lists it as a reprint of the 1942 story
> (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?TWONSFEB1949), which seems implausible
> to me.
>
> Does anyone know what's going on here?

Hm, yes, it does look suspicious and seems to suggest an erroneous
title merge. I'll post it on the ISFDB Verification Board to see if
anybody has a copy of the 1949-02-00 TWS handy. If not, I'll check my
copy on the 19th. Thanks!

Butch Malahide

unread,
Apr 7, 2008, 8:51:46 PM4/7/08
to
On Apr 7, 7:09 pm, "Mike Schilling" <mscottschill...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Nothing to do with the original coversation, but so long as the right
> parties are watching:
>
> Icshi's story source (an incredible Van Vogt resource, found athttp://icshi.bingodisk.com/public/vanvogt/StorysourceV4.pdf) shows _The

> Weapon Shops_ as being a fixup of three short stories:
>
> The Seesaw -- Astounding 7/41
> The Weapon Shop -- Astounding 12/42
> The Weapon Shops of Isher -- Thrilling Wonder 2/49
>
> I've read the first two. The first is about the 20th century reporter who
> does not witness, but aids in, the formation of the planets.  The second is
> about Fara Clark and how the weapon shops save his repair business from the
> greedy so-and-sos who were going to cheat him out of it.  The third would,
> by elimination, have to be the story of Fara's son Cayle, though  I've never
> seen it.  ISFDB lists it as a reprint of the 1942 story
> (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?TWONSFEB1949), which seems implausible
> to me.
>
> Does anyone know what's going on here?

I have a copy of the Feb. 1949 TWS right here. "The Weapon Shops of
Isher" is advertised on the cover as "A NEW NOVEL BY A. E. VAN VOGT",
ergo, not a reprint. It is, as you figured, the story of Cayle Clark.

Ahasuerus

unread,
Apr 7, 2008, 9:38:19 PM4/7/08
to
On Apr 7, 6:51 pm, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 7, 7:09 pm, "Mike Schilling" <mscottschill...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Nothing to do with the original coversation, but so long as the right
> > parties are watching:
>
> > Icshi's story source (an incredible Van Vogt resource, found at http://icshi.bingodisk.com/public/vanvogt/StorysourceV4.pdf) shows _The

> > Weapon Shops_ as being a fixup of three short stories:
>
> > The Seesaw -- Astounding 7/41
> > The Weapon Shop -- Astounding 12/42
> > The Weapon Shops of Isher -- Thrilling Wonder 2/49
>
> > I've read the first two. The first is about the 20th century reporter who
> > does not witness, but aids in, the formation of the planets. The second is
> > about Fara Clark and how the weapon shops save his repair business from the
> > greedy so-and-sos who were going to cheat him out of it. The third would,
> > by elimination, have to be the story of Fara's son Cayle, though I've never
> > seen it. ISFDB lists it as a reprint of the 1942 story
> > (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?TWONSFEB1949), which seems implausible
> > to me.
>
> > Does anyone know what's going on here?
>
> I have a copy of the Feb. 1949 TWS right here. "The Weapon Shops of
> Isher" is advertised on the cover as "A NEW NOVEL BY A. E. VAN VOGT",
> ergo, not a reprint. It is, as you figured, the story of Cayle Clark.

Thanks, fixed :)

Mike Schilling

unread,
Apr 7, 2008, 11:25:13 PM4/7/08
to

It would be great if whoever checks it could post a brief synopsis
here. And thank *you*.


Mike Schilling

unread,
Apr 7, 2008, 11:27:22 PM4/7/08
to

Cool, thanks. I wonder why it wasn't sold to Astounding (who paid
better.)


Dan Goodman

unread,
Apr 8, 2008, 4:16:28 AM4/8/08
to
Mike Schilling wrote:

Campbell rejected it?

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://clerkfuturist.wordpress.com
mirror 1: http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
mirror 2: http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

0 new messages