new to scifi, could you suggest me a good book? your favourite maybe?
Alessandro Preziosi
some years ago I read the Foundation trilogy (by Isaac Asimov) and I
loved it.
I haven't read anything else recently, but the other day a friend of
mine mentioned Asimov, and it reminded me how much i liked his books,
so I decided that I want to start reading some new science fiction
book.
I need someone to suggest me a good book, maybe you could tell me
what's your favourite or something else you think i might like.
(please pick up just one or two books, don't write down the list of
all the books that you've read, just to show me how cool you are
'cause you know so many books...).
It doesn't have to be a "popular" book, if you know some "hidden
jewel" that you loved and nobody knows about, I'd like to hear about
it.
It doesn't even have to be a novel, it could also be a scientific or
philosophical essay or anything else...
some more info:
- i liked the matrix trilogy and ( maybe a bit less ) 2001 a space
odissey
- i don't exactly know what I'm looking for, but my idea of scifi is:
a plausible future, maybe some politics, philosophy, psychology...
- i like plot twists
- NO TIME TRAVELLING please ( unless the book is VERY good and doesn't
only rely on time travel, i hate everything related to time
travels... )
I think it's all,
excuse my english, if you spot any error please tell me, so that I can
learn from my mystakes,
goodbye,
Alessandro Preziosi
Moriarty
wrote:
If you like Foundation so much, why not try some more Asimov? Some
suggestions:
_The Gods Themselves_
_Pebble in the Sky_
_The End of Eternity_ , although it does have time travel
_The Caves of Steel_ and _The Naked Sun_, SF mysteries.
The Robot short stories. Start with _I Robot_.
_Nine Tomorrows_, a collection of short stories, one or two of which
do involve time travel but enough of which don't and they are all
pretty good with enough plot twists.
-Moriarty
Dorothy J Heydt
Well, the Foundation Trilogy is classic SF, having been written
in the 1940s. Perhaps you'd like to start with some other works
from that period.
The mid-period works of Robert A. Heinlein, for example. Many of
the novels from this period are "juveniles," that is, they were
written for teenaged Boy Scouts. They're still quite good
reading.
Heinlein, like many of us, went soft in the head as he got older
and in poorer health, and while others may differ, my own advice
is to avoid anything written after about 1964.
For example:
Space Cadet
Red Planet
Sixth Column
Farmer in the Sky
The Puppet Masters
Between Planets
The Rolling Stones
The Star Beast
Double Star
The Door Into Summer
Citizen of the Galaxy
Have Space Suit - Will Travel
We're now getting into the period when Heinlein had made a fair
amount of money, and felt he could get away with writing anything
he liked whether it would sell or not, and started getting weird.
In this period we find
Starship Troopers
Stranger in a Strange Land
Glory Road
Farnham's Freehold
Which I do not recommend.
After that came
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
which is excellent ... and after that I would advise you to read
no later Heinlein. Others' opinions, as I said, will vary.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is
look at the copyright date.
Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange
Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad
_Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad
_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good
Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad
Wayne Throop
:: - i liked the matrix trilogy and ( maybe a bit less ) 2001 a space
:: odissey
:: - i don't exactly know what I'm looking for, but my idea of scifi is:
:: a plausible future, maybe some politics, philosophy, psychology...
:: - i like plot twists
:: - NO TIME TRAVELLING please ( unless the book is VERY good and doesn't
:: only rely on time travel, i hate everything related to time
:: travels... )
: Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com>
: If you like Foundation so much, why not try some more Asimov?
Or, if you want something more recent, more modern, some Vinge, and/or
some Stross? I know you said "plausible future", but "the matrix" sort
of contradicts that, so in the interest of nice matrixesque cybernetics
and widgetry and all, I'll bend plausibility just a bit. That, and
really plausible futures are rarer than hens teeth anyways.
So. For Vinge, maybe "A Fire Upon the Deep" and "A Deepness in the Sky".
For Stross, maybe "Accelerando" and "Singularity Sky". These are not the
most recent by those authors, but they may make a better introduction.
And "Accelerando" is Foundation-like in that it's a collection of shorter
works with an overall story arc... if that matters. Of course, folks'
mileage varies as to whether these would be good choices, but
when does mileage not vary?
Mind you, Singularity Sky skirts the edge of time travel, in
that it is physically possible, but in the basic background is an
entity-with-a-capital-E that outlaws it, to whit, "Thou shalt not
violate causality within my historic lightcone. Or else". Thus,
even though some folks sometimes try to find loopholes in that,
it basically doesn't happen.
The two Vinge examples are both set in his "Zones of Thought" background,
and there are some implausibilities in that, but nothing nearly
as implausible as The Matrix.
Days passed. For the evil that was growing in the new machines,
each hour was longer than all the time before. Now the newborn was
less than an hour from its great flowering, it's safe spread across
interstellar spaces. [...] The hours came to minutes, the minutes
to seconds. And now each second was as long as all the time before.
--- The Flowering of the Blight
Vernor Vinge, "A Fire Upon the Deep"
"We're out of time!"
"Then we'd better go get some more."
--- KND, "Operation F.U.T.U.R.E."
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Konrad Gaertner
>
> I haven't read anything else recently, but the other day a friend of
> mine mentioned Asimov, and it reminded me how much i liked his books,
> so I decided that I want to start reading some new science fiction
> book.
Rosemary Kirstein may not look like what you're asking for, but I
think you'll enjoy it.
--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll
tkma...@yahoo.co.uk
I'm yet to see anyone getting put off by Eric Frank Russell's "Wasp" -
hilarious story that also makes a point. Difficult to find, though.
--
<http://variety-sf.blogspot.com/>
<http://twitter.com/varietysf>
Wayne Throop
: Rosemary Kirstein may not look like what you're asking for, but I
: think you'll enjoy it.
I'll second that. Some folks don't like it, but I think it's nifty.
Several of Rowan's internal dialogues are just interesting. IMO.
Three in particular are the forced march towards the end of
Outskirter's Secret, the meditations on the Steerswomen's Ring
at the end of The Lost Steersman, and the meditations on the
nature of magic not quite at the end of The Language of Power.
There are also others. Publish the next book dagnabbit!
I wanna see Slado get his comuppance! He just can *not*
get away with it, and I think Bel will back me up on that.
Her characters actually seem to think, a pleasant change from much
fantasy and science fiction. Along those lines, I'd alwo recomend
our own Lawrence Watt Evans, and Steve Gould of "Jumper" fame.
Though as you mention, none of these are really traceable
back to what he asked for.
"He's not going to kill your people, or my people."
"Then who?"
"Everyone else."
--- Rowan and Bel (quote approximate)
(and that's not even Slado; he's eviler still)
Greg Goss
>Heinlein, like many of us, went soft in the head as he got older
>and in poorer health, and while others may differ, my own advice
>is to avoid anything written after about 1964.
Friday was good, so long as you tear out the afterword and the final
page of the previous chapter. Live with a no-ending book.
The moon is a Harsh Mistress was written in 1966 and is one of his
best. I agree with Dorothy about the Juvies. All of 'em.
>
>After that came
>
>The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
>
>which is excellent ...
Oh. I guess I should have read to the end.
You didn't mention Poddy in your juvies list. Was that deliberate?
>and after that I would advise you to read
>no later Heinlein. Others' opinions, as I said, will vary.
----------------------------------------------------------------
My favourite author is Niven and ...
Niven and anybody. Niven needs an anchor, a keel. Someone to tie him
a bit tighter to reality. Perhaps Mote in God's Eye, Oath of Fealty,
or Lucifer's Hammer. That last is more disaster movie novelization
than SF, but I like it.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Dorothy J Heydt
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>>Heinlein, like many of us, went soft in the head as he got older
>>and in poorer health, and while others may differ, my own advice
>>is to avoid anything written after about 1964.
>
>Friday was good, so long as you tear out the afterword and the final
>page of the previous chapter. Live with a no-ending book.
Well, to each his/her/whatever own. I loathed it.
>The moon is a Harsh Mistress was written in 1966 and is one of his
>best. I agree with Dorothy about the Juvies. All of 'em.
>
>>After that came
>>
>>The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
>>
>>which is excellent ...
>Oh. I guess I should have read to the end.
>
>You didn't mention Poddy in your juvies list. Was that deliberate?
Yes. I don't like it particularly. It has moments, but the
basic thrust of the story -- which is that women ought to
concentrate on raising their children rather than having
scientific or any other kind of careers, else their children will
be monsters like Clarkie -- repelled me.
Kindly note that Heinlein never had *any* children by any of his
wives. Everything he says on the topic, therefore, must be at
least tested for signs of rampant idealism. (I don't mean the
bunghole theory -- that's a joke. But the basic Heinlein motif
that women have nothing to do but raise babies and they're no
good if they aren't raising babies, isn't a joke. And it ain't
funny.)
GiantP
<lsnpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi everybody,
>
Hi!
>some years ago I read the Foundation trilogy (by Isaac Asimov) and I
>loved it.
>I haven't read anything else recently, but the other day a friend of
>mine mentioned Asimov, and it reminded me how much i liked his books,
>so I decided that I want to start reading some new science fiction
>book.
>I need someone to suggest me a good book ..............
>
I'm sure you'll get some really good answers, mate, so I won't waste
your time by suggesting something you probably wouldn't like. In the
meantime, I wonder if you could help me?
I practically live on dry bread and oatmeal. Is there any good food
you could suggest? Nothing too spicy or plain, and no meat-based or
veggie products please. Thanks.
Peter Huebner
> >Friday was good, so long as you tear out the afterword and the final
> >page of the previous chapter. Live with a no-ending book.
>
> Well, to each his/her/whatever own. I loathed it.
>
<nods> Friday was my 'WTF moment' with Heinlein, or, in other words, the
beginning of the end of my enjoyment of his writing. I thought it to be
fairly awful. Things went steeply downhill from there.
-P.
Michael Grosberg
> Hi everybody,
> some years ago I read the Foundation trilogy (by Isaac Asimov) and I
> loved it.
> I haven't read anything else recently, but the other day a friend of
> mine mentioned Asimov, and it reminded me how much i liked his books,
> so I decided that I want to start reading some new science fiction
> book.
"Foundation" was my first SF novel too! but I was about 13 years old
when I read it.
Your request is very, very, general and could give you hundreds of
names to sort through. So, what I'm going to do is offer you several
paths into SF.
You could start with the old-timey classics - Heinlein, Asimov,
Bester, etc. and work your way to current SF. Other posters in this
thread have made lists with such classics so I won't repeat it.
You could start with the more accessible novels SF has to offer. The
one that's on every "first SF" list is Orson Scott Card's _Ender's
Game_. It's what you might call a gateway drug - it's very accessible
to beginners. If you like it, you may want to try the sequel, _Speaker
For the Dead_. Or you may want to try Mary Doria Russel's _The
Sparrow_ - they cover mostly the same ground.
Or how about trying some grand space opera? Those would be novels in
the same scope as _Foundation_. They usually require a better
acquaintance with SF to truly enjoy, but if you get into it you will
be blown away.
_Dune_ by Frank Herbert is the obvious place to start here, and is one
of the finest Sf novels ever written. Other novels in the genre are
_Hyperion_ by Dan Simmons and _A Fire Upon the Deep_ by Vernor Vinge.
Or you may want to jump right into the more interesting parts of
current SF, the ones that deal with near-future issues and ideas. If
so, go get some cyberpunk: read _Neuromancer_ by William Gibson or, if
you feel up for it, _Rainbows End_ by Vernor Vinge, Charles Stross's
_Accelerando_ or Peter Watts' _Blindsight_. Thise three will force you
to think hard - be prepared to not understand most of them...
Joel Olson
Joel Olson
news:bit9o55ksm1uf8c76...@4ax.com...
>
You have GOT to add some portabellas.
Joel Olson
news:26cb76a5-dc47-4b1f...@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Without the sequel, The Sparrow is pretty strong stuff.
One that I liked a lot, and that I've never seen mentioned here, is by
Norman Spinrad, _Bug Jack Baron_. About a media personality. Sort of.
James Nicoll
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <7ujve2...@mid.individual.net>,
>Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>Heinlein, like many of us, went soft in the head as he got older
>>>and in poorer health, and while others may differ, my own advice
>>>is to avoid anything written after about 1964.
>>
>>Friday was good, so long as you tear out the afterword and the final
>>page of the previous chapter. Live with a no-ending book.
>
>Well, to each his/her/whatever own. I loathed it.
>
>>The moon is a Harsh Mistress was written in 1966 and is one of his
>>best. I agree with Dorothy about the Juvies. All of 'em.
>>
>>>After that came
>>>
>>>The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
>>>
>>>which is excellent ...
>>Oh. I guess I should have read to the end.
>>
>>You didn't mention Poddy in your juvies list. Was that deliberate?
>
>Yes. I don't like it particularly. It has moments, but the
>basic thrust of the story -- which is that women ought to
>concentrate on raising their children rather than having
>scientific or any other kind of careers, else their children will
>be monsters like Clarkie -- repelled me.
I can't help but wonder if it is significant that the person who delivers
the "It's all the mom's fault for not making more time for Poddy and Clark!"
rant is the childless uncle who dragged his niece and nephew along on the
Voyage of Frequent Assassination Attempts, the person who was the real target
for all the attempted attacks.
If not for Clark, Tom and the rest of the people on the ship might have
all died on the way to Venus.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
James Nicoll
Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
>In article <KyC2J...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
>> >Friday was good, so long as you tear out the afterword and the final
>> >page of the previous chapter. Live with a no-ending book.
>>
>> Well, to each his/her/whatever own. I loathed it.
>>
>
><nods> Friday was my 'WTF moment' with Heinlein, or, in other words, the
>beginning of the end of my enjoyment of his writing.
Not NUMBER OF THE BEAST?
Greg Goss
>But the basic Heinlein motif
>that women have nothing to do but raise babies and they're no
>good if they aren't raising babies, isn't a joke. And it ain't
>funny.)
One of the very late books (The Cat Who Walks Through Walls?) had
Lazarus wandering around completely lost while the women ran the show.
I was amused because of the contrast with his earlier positions.\
The Empress of a Thousand Worlds wasn't a baby factory, but I don't
remember much else from that book.
Remus Shepherd
I liked Friday, but I remember thinking that his style seemed to have
changed.
To my horror, my mother borrowed Friday from my bookshelf and read it.
She loved the book. I was around thirteen. She asked if I had any other
books like that, and I couldn't bring myself to ask Mom if she wanted more
sci-fi or more books about polygamy and anal sex. I think I told her,
"Not really."
... ...
Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com>
Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/remus_shepherd/
Dorothy J Heydt
Yeah. Only mine was _Stranger_.
Dorothy J Heydt
The person who is the obligatory Heinlein sock-puppet for that
story. Somewhere upthread I already pointed out that Heinlein
was also childless, which explains (to some extent) why his
child-rearing theories don't hold water.
>If not for Clark, Tom and the rest of the people on the ship might have
>all died on the way to Venus.
Oh yeah, but that doesn't count against the horrendous sin of his
mother paying attention to something besides her kids.
erilar
wrote:
> I'm yet to see anyone getting put off by Eric Frank Russell's "Wasp" -
> hilarious story that also makes a point. Difficult to find, though.
Agree on "Wasp". Try a library.
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
erilar
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
>
> which is excellent ... and after that I would advise you to read
> no later Heinlein. Others' opinions, as I said, will vary.
I've read, I think, all of his books, good and bad. and that one is my
favorite.
erilar
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <MPG.25efc75bc...@news.individual.net>,
> Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
> >In article <KyC2J...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
> >> >Friday was good, so long as you tear out the afterword and the final
> >> >page of the previous chapter. Live with a no-ending book.
> >>
> >> Well, to each his/her/whatever own. I loathed it.
> >>
> >
> ><nods> Friday was my 'WTF moment' with Heinlein, or, in other words, the
> >beginning of the end of my enjoyment of his writing. I thought it to be
> >fairly awful. Things went steeply downhill from there.
>
> Yeah. Only mine was _Stranger_.
I really liked _Stranger_ when it first came out. I did not care for
_Friday_ either.
Brian M. Scott
[...]
> But the basic Heinlein motif that women have nothing to
> do but raise babies and they're no good if they aren't
> raising babies, isn't a joke. And it ain't funny.)
It also isn't a basic Heinlein motif: his women are
competent at a great many things, and in quite a few books
they pretty much run things.
Brian
Dorothy J Heydt
erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <hm2bl8$9lq$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, tkma...@yahoo.co.uk
>wrote:
>
>> I'm yet to see anyone getting put off by Eric Frank Russell's "Wasp" -
>> hilarious story that also makes a point. Difficult to find, though.
>
>Agree on "Wasp". Try a library.
Or your favorite online virtual bookstore. E.g., from Amazon:
Incidentally, you want to get a *complete* edition, such as the
above, rather than the cut edition that was originally published.
(Russell cut it himself, at publisher's fiat, so it's a decent
job, but the long version has more fun stuff in it.)
Joseph Nebus
>In article <MPG.25efc75bc...@news.individual.net>,
>Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
>>In article <KyC2J...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
>>> >Friday was good, so long as you tear out the afterword and the final
>>> >page of the previous chapter. Live with a no-ending book.
>>>
>>> Well, to each his/her/whatever own. I loathed it.
>>
>><nods> Friday was my 'WTF moment' with Heinlein, or, in other words, the
>>beginning of the end of my enjoyment of his writing. I thought it to be
>>fairly awful. Things went steeply downhill from there.
>Yeah. Only mine was _Stranger_.
Mine was in the _Expanded Universe_, somewhere midway through
the story-essay about how President Uhura Will Fix The World (PS: Start
With The Gold Standard). I'm too young and disorganized to have read
Heinlein in order, though, so that shouldn't be taken to suggest that
chronologically earlier things wouldn't have broken the spell.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dorothy J Heydt
Heh. Yes. Not realistic ... but worth a chuckle when you
finally figure out who she is.
Peter Huebner
>
> In article <MPG.25efc75bc...@news.individual.net>,
> Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
> >In article <KyC2J...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
> >> >Friday was good, so long as you tear out the afterword and the final
> >> >page of the previous chapter. Live with a no-ending book.
> >>
> >> Well, to each his/her/whatever own. I loathed it.
> >>
> >
> ><nods> Friday was my 'WTF moment' with Heinlein, or, in other words, the
> >beginning of the end of my enjoyment of his writing.
>
> Not NUMBER OF THE BEAST?
No, I didn't see that until a friend gave me her copy (not liking it)
some time later. It was the final nail in the coffin, so to speak - in
fact I never even got past half way i.i.r.c.
-P.
Wayne Throop
: It also isn't a basic Heinlein motif: his women are
: they pretty much run things.
Even in some of the later books. NotB, for example, Hilda
is the Obviously Superior Commanding Officer.
On the other hand, to be fair, there's a strong-ish thread of "women
are properly baby factories and should drop everything else when an
opportunity presents itself", and/or other sex-role armchair sociobiology.
Eg, whozizface's sister in Tunnel in the Sky drops her military career
like a hot potato when she gets a marriage proposal, and many others.
But then you gotta contrast that with Hilda and Star and possibly
Hazel Mead Stone (though her middle life we don't know about)
and any number of others.
So while I myselves wouldn't count it as a "basic motif",
it's a fairly common meme that shows up from time to time.
And I can see how it could grate when it does.
Concluding back on the original hand, note that even lots of places where
there's an example of this meme of sociobiological determinism, oh, say,
Wyoming Knott's attitudes in tMiaHM, it's fairly clear he (and/or his
socquepuppit du jour) thinks it's hugely affected by immediate circumstance,
and not quite an absolute biologically determined mandate. And that's
what sort of unites the cases, ie, makes the "traditional roles" examples
a spectrum of possibilities with the "empress of all she surveys" examples.
IMO. YMMV. VWP. (And no intention to imply that I buy his rationales
for how circumstances affects things in any specific cases.)
Dave Hansen
> In article <hm2bl8$9l...@speranza.aioe.org>, tkmail...@yahoo.co.uk
> wrote:
>
> > I'm yet to see anyone getting put off by Eric Frank Russell's "Wasp" -
> > hilarious story that also makes a point. Difficult to find, though.
>
> Agree on "Wasp". Try a library.
NESFA has a collection of his novels, including "Wasp". Not cheap
($29), but worthwhile.
-=Dave
Dave Hansen
> In article <KyCvrB....@kithrup.com>,
> djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
> > In article <MPG.25efc75bc41dfb64989...@news.individual.net>,
> > Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
[...]
> > ><nods> Friday was my 'WTF moment' with Heinlein, or, in other words, the
> > >beginning of the end of my enjoyment of his writing. I thought it to be
> > >fairly awful. Things went steeply downhill from there.
>
> > Yeah. Only mine was _Stranger_.
>
> I really liked _Stranger_ when it first came out. I did not care for
> _Friday_ either.
I was a teenager when I read "Stranger". I knew it was strange, but I
found it interesting.
Then I read "I will Fear No Evil." I kind of liked most of the book
(I was still young), but hated the ending. And I was beginning to
realize that these books were... quite unlike all the other Heinlein
I'd read to that point.
Then I started "Time Enough for Love". And I failed to finish it.
Part of the fault lay with the cheap binding (literally fell apart
while I was reading it -- that had never happened to me before), but
mostly, I was bored.
Never started "Friday".
I read "Moon is Harsh Mistress" (that _should_ have been the title) a
few years later, and shortly after reading "The Rolling Stones". I
found them quite similar in flavor. Loved both of those...
Regards,
-=Dave
Shawn Wilson
> I need someone to suggest me a good book, maybe you could tell me
> what's your favourite or something else you think i might like.
> (please pick up just one or two books, don't write down the list of
> all the books that you've read, just to show me how cool you are
> 'cause you know so many books...).
> It doesn't have to be a "popular" book, if you know some "hidden
> jewel" that you loved and nobody knows about, I'd like to hear about
> it.
> It doesn't even have to be a novel, it could also be a scientific or
> philosophical essay or anything else...
Ah... While Asimov's SF isn't THAT good as far as I am concerned, his
non-fiction is *wonderful*. Check out your local library and used
book stores as they aren't currently in print. Almost everything I
know about the hard sciences I learned from his science articles.
As for SF recommendations, as I said I don't care all that much for
Asimov, and my preferences are much like the others here especially re
Heinlein's Juveniles (my first time was 'Have Spacesuit, Will
Travel').
Also-
Ring of Fire series by Eric Flint, et al, starting with '1632'.
Modern town of Grantville is transported through time and space to
central Germany in the midst of the 30 Years War and must make its
way. Grantville has to adjust to a very different Europe than they
knew, and Europe has to adjust to Grantville as well.
Keith Laumer's Retief series. Retief is a diplomat and The Only Sane
Man in a universe full of the bizarre. Very funny.
Larry Niven- most anything with his name on it, especially The Mote in
God's Eye, Footfall, Protector (and all the rest of his Known Space
books).
Robert Heinlein, same discussion others have presented, except that I
liked Starship Troopers a great deal and consider it a must read.
Shawn Wilson
> We're now getting into the period when Heinlein had made a fair
> amount of money, and felt he could get away with writing anything
> he liked whether it would sell or not, and started getting weird.
> In this period we find
>
> Starship Troopers
> Stranger in a Strange Land
> Glory Road
> Farnham's Freehold
>
> Which I do not recommend.
Ahem, while SiaSL and FF were dreadful, Starship Troopers and Glory
Road were terrific and I highly recommend them both.
> After that came
>
> The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
>
> which is excellent ... and after that I would advise you to read
> no later Heinlein. Others' opinions, as I said, will vary.
Moon was merely good, not excellent.
Mike Schilling
Bill Snyder
>On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:27:55 -0800 (PST), Alessandro Preziosi
><lsnpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi everybody,
>>
>
>Hi!
>
>>some years ago I read the Foundation trilogy (by Isaac Asimov) and I
>>loved it.
>>I haven't read anything else recently, but the other day a friend of
>>mine mentioned Asimov, and it reminded me how much i liked his books,
>>so I decided that I want to start reading some new science fiction
>>book.
>>I need someone to suggest me a good book ..............
>>
>
>I'm sure you'll get some really good answers, mate, so I won't waste
>your time by suggesting something you probably wouldn't like. In the
>meantime, I wonder if you could help me?
>
>I practically live on dry bread and oatmeal. Is there any good food
>you could suggest? Nothing too spicy or plain, and no meat-based or
>veggie products please. Thanks.
I suggest you eat shit, and recommend it to all your fellow
trolls.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
raymond larsson
says...
> "GiantP" <x...@x.com> wrote:
> > I practically live on dry bread and oatmeal. Is there any good food
> > you could suggest? Nothing too spicy or plain, and no meat-based or
> > veggie products please. Thanks.
>
> >
>
> You have GOT to add some portabellas.
Vegemite! Or, if you live in /that/ other circle of Hell, Marmite.
--
rgl "I find this varies considerably from near-death experience
to near-death experience." James Nicoll
Jon Schild
> In article <843b5bd9-df54-4997...@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
>> loved it.
>> I haven't read anything else recently, but the other day a friend of
>> mine mentioned Asimov, and it reminded me how much i liked his books,
>> so I decided that I want to start reading some new science fiction
>> book.
>> what's your favourite or something else you think i might like.
>> (please pick up just one or two books, don't write down the list of
>> all the books that you've read, just to show me how cool you are
>> 'cause you know so many books...).
>> It doesn't have to be a "popular" book, if you know some "hidden
>> jewel" that you loved and nobody knows about, I'd like to hear about
>> it.
>> It doesn't even have to be a novel, it could also be a scientific or
>> philosophical essay or anything else...
>>
>> - i liked the matrix trilogy and ( maybe a bit less ) 2001 a space
>> odissey
>> - i don't exactly know what I'm looking for, but my idea of scifi is:
>> a plausible future, maybe some politics, philosophy, psychology...
>> - i like plot twists
>> - NO TIME TRAVELLING please ( unless the book is VERY good and doesn't
>> only rely on time travel, i hate everything related to time
>> travels... )
>>
>> I think it's all,
>> excuse my english, if you spot any error please tell me, so that I can
>> learn from my mystakes,
>> goodbye,
>
> in the 1940s. Perhaps you'd like to start with some other works
> from that period.
>
> The mid-period works of Robert A. Heinlein, for example. Many of
> the novels from this period are "juveniles," that is, they were
> written for teenaged Boy Scouts. They're still quite good
> reading.
>
> Heinlein, like many of us, went soft in the head as he got older
> and in poorer health, and while others may differ, my own advice
> is to avoid anything written after about 1964.
>
>
> Space Cadet
> Red Planet
> Sixth Column
> Farmer in the Sky
> The Puppet Masters
> Between Planets
> The Rolling Stones
> The Star Beast
> Double Star
> The Door Into Summer
> Citizen of the Galaxy
> Have Space Suit - Will Travel
>
> We're now getting into the period when Heinlein had made a fair
> amount of money, and felt he could get away with writing anything
> he liked whether it would sell or not, and started getting weird.
> In this period we find
>
> Starship Troopers
> Stranger in a Strange Land
> Glory Road
> Farnham's Freehold
>
> Which I do not recommend.
>
>
> The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
>
> which is excellent ... and after that I would advise you to read
> no later Heinlein. Others' opinions, as I said, will vary.
I think that most of work after Stranger in a Strange Land are bad. And
they get worse. They turned into long long boring conversations split
up be the occasional small amount of activity. A & B (usually A is a
man and B is an extraordinarily beautiful woman with no sexual
reservations) meet and talk for a couple of chapters. Then they leave
where they are and get into a car and talk for another chapter or two.
They arrive where they are going and get out of the car. In the
elevator to (usually her) apartment they talk for a couple of more
chapters. etc etc etc etc. They turned into nothing but lectures about
his political, economic and moral philosophies. The first book he wrote
(For Us The Living), which he couldn't get published, was also like
that. He had to slack off and write books in which something happened
to make a living. Now that he is famous and dead, the first book got
published, but it is still no good.
And that's a real pity, because so much of what he wrote was so good!
Jack Tingle
Let's see:
The Foundation Trilogy
The Matrix Trilogy
2001: A Space Odyssey
Plausible future, more on the side of realism than slipstream
Plot twists
No time travel
I'd start you with William Gibson's "Neuromancer", then move on to Joel
Shepherd's Cassandra Kreznov trilogy (Crossover, Breakaway &
Killswitch). All of these are similar to the Matrix. "Neuromancer"
having been the progenitor of them all. The Kreznov novels also have
plausible elements you'll like. The third literary leg of this Matrix
stool is Masamune Shirow's "Ghost in the Shell". Both the manga and the
two anime series are worth seeking out.
Since you like Sir Arthur C. Clarke, I'd probably steer you to
"Childhood's End", which predated "2001" by a long time. I'd also steer
you to any other of his novels you might fancy. He wrote very few bad
novels. I'd recommend "The Deep Range" if you want a change of pace. His
contemporary, Poul Anderson specialized in making the prosaic fit into
the exceptional, so you might look up any of his novels as well. "Tau
Zero" is one of my favorites. It does involve time travel, but not the
kind you're thinking of. Both men were contemporaries of Asimov, who,
IMO, has not aged well.
I'll finish by giving you my stock "best books ever" advice:
Short: Sturgeon, Ted, "Slow Sculpture"
Medium: Moore, C.L., "No Woman Born"
Long: Zelazny, Roger, "Lord of Light"
All are sci-fi.
Runners up:
Fantasy novels: Stewart, Sean, "Clouds End"; Graham, Jo, "The Black Ships"
Sci-fi novels: Kirstein, Rosemary, The Steerswoman series
Regards,
Jack Tingle
Gene Wirchenko
wrote:
>"Michael Grosberg" <grosberg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:26cb76a5-dc47-4b1f...@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 24, 3:27 am, Alessandro Preziosi <lsnprezi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi everybody,
>> some years ago I read the Foundation trilogy (by Isaac Asimov) and I
>> loved it.
>> I haven't read anything else recently, but the other day a friend of
>> mine mentioned Asimov, and it reminded me how much i liked his books,
>> so I decided that I want to start reading some new science fiction
>> book.
>
>"Foundation" was my first SF novel too! but I was about 13 years old
>when I read it.
Was that bright flash me getting photocopied?
It was my first, too. I was about 13, maybe 14.
>Your request is very, very, general and could give you hundreds of
>names to sort through. So, what I'm going to do is offer you several
>paths into SF.
And whatever you pick, OP, you will find later that you should
have picked something else first. Never mind that; just keep reading.
Remember to occasionally buy bookshelves. Have fun.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Michael Stemper
>On Feb 23, 6:27=A0pm, Alessandro Preziosi <lsnprezi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I need someone to suggest me a good book, maybe you could tell me
>> what's your favourite or something else you think i might like.
>As for SF recommendations, as I said I don't care all that much for
>Asimov, and my preferences are much like the others here especially re
>Heinlein's Juveniles (my first time was 'Have Spacesuit, Will
>Travel').
Mine was _Tunnel in the Sky_.
>Also-
>Keith Laumer's Retief series. Retief is a diplomat and The Only Sane
>Man in a universe full of the bizarre. Very funny.
... in small doses. Also, don't read any that were written after he
had his stroke (1972, I believe).
Smoe Laumer that's often overlooked is his "Imperium" series:
- _Worlds of the Imperium_
- _The Other Side of Time_
- _Assignment in Nowhere_
Highly recommended.
>Robert Heinlein, same discussion others have presented, except that I
>liked Starship Troopers a great deal and consider it a must read.
I'll have to go along with that.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
If it's "tourist season", where do I get my license?
Alessandro Preziosi
I tried to sum them up in a word file, and now i think I'm gonna start
with these three:
Neuromancer, Accelerando, and Wasp.
I think that I won't follow the rules and start with Accelerando, if I
find it too difficult i'll put it aside for a while and read another
one.
As i'm Italian i guess it won't be easy, probably I'll have to read at
least 2 pages of dictionary for every page of the book :-)
I also downloaded the ebook and audiobook of _Ender's game_, I think i
will read it while waiting for the other books to arrive.
It looks like many people liked "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". Maybe
I'll add it to the list.
I'd also like to read some good short stories ( i like 'em cause
they're easy, and you don't have to remember the chatacters'
names... ) I think I'll read Asimov's "Nine Tomorrows".
I chose too many books. Knowing my standards it's a lot if I end up
reading one or two of them...
> >"Foundation" was my first SF novel too! but I was about 13 years old
> >when I read it.
>
> Was that bright flash me getting photocopied?
> It was my first, too. I was about 13, maybe 14.
I also read Foundation when i was 13 :-) it was an assignment from our
italian teacher.
Now I realize she must have been quite a scifi fan, cause she gave us
a list of books
with "foundation","1984","Congo", "Fahrenheit 451"... she also showed
us "2001 a space odyssey" and "Planet of the apes" in class...
>She asked if I had any other
>books like that, and I couldn't bring myself to ask Mom if she wanted more
>sci-fi or more books about polygamy and anal sex.
ahah
well, suggestions are still open anyway,
goodnight everybody
Peter Huebner
@t41g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>, lsnpr...@gmail.com says...
>
> As i'm Italian i guess it won't be easy, probably I'll have to read at
> least 2 pages of dictionary for every page of the book :-)
>
Yes, when I started to read English SF I had to look up about 1 word
every sentence. After the first couple of books, it was 1 word every
page. Then, soon after, 1 or 3 words per chapter ...
One thing: get an English-English dictionary. That way you really learn
the language, and you don't learn silly dictionary-mistakes (all too
common because many words have several meanings, and in an English-Xxxxx
dictionary it's too easy to pick the wrong one). Even if you sometimes
have to look up what the explanation means at first :) The concise
Oxford is a nice one, and not *too* heavy and can often be had very
cheaply 2nd hand.
These days, I'm down to looking up 1-3 words per year :)
ciao, -Peter
Jack Bohn
>In article <d4a17e1d-0751-469a-a9a8-dc71994ac1b7
>@t41g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>, lsnpr...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> As i'm Italian i guess it won't be easy, probably I'll have to read at
>> least 2 pages of dictionary for every page of the book :-)
>>
>
>Yes, when I started to read English SF I had to look up about 1 word
>every sentence. After the first couple of books, it was 1 word every
>page. Then, soon after, 1 or 3 words per chapter ...
In that case, I recommend Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun!
(A joke, one thing he did in this series was not to make up a
word for a device, animal, article of clothing, etc., if there
existed a suitable English word that had fallen into disuse or
become obscure. I did know a few of the words he'd considered
obscure, and mostly read past the rest as if he had made them up,
but keeping a list of them to look up when I got to a
dictionary.)
--
-Jack
Michael Stemper
>In article <d4a17e1d-0751-469a...@t41g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>, lsnpr...@gmail.com says...
>> As i'm Italian i guess it won't be easy, probably I'll have to read at
>> least 2 pages of dictionary for every page of the book :-)
>>
>
>Yes, when I started to read English SF I had to look up about 1 word
>every sentence. After the first couple of books, it was 1 word every
>page. Then, soon after, 1 or 3 words per chapter ...
>
>One thing: get an English-English dictionary. That way you really learn
>the language, and you don't learn silly dictionary-mistakes (all too
>common because many words have several meanings, and in an English-Xxxxx
>dictionary it's too easy to pick the wrong one).
Another note, one that applies specifically to speculative fiction, may
help. Since these works are usually set in places other than the Earth
of 2010, they frequently contain words that you won't find in any
dictionary. A Spanish friend of mine was extremely frustrated when she
first read _Dune_, because she didn't know this, and lots of words that
Herbert used weren't in her dictionary. She was doubly frustrated when
she reached the end and discovered a glossary of all of those words.
So, if a word's not in your dictionary, check to see if the book has a
glossary. If not, just get what meaning you can from context and go
on with the story. Remember that native English speakers have to do
that, too.
When you get to authors such as Lovecraft or Donaldson, you'll encounter
words that, although technically English, are unknown to 99% of us, and
not to be found in any but the thickest unabridged versions.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
2 + 2 = 5, for sufficiently large values of 2
Juho Julkunen
(mste...@walkabout.empros.com) says...
I have a lovely thick English-Finnish dictionary which deliberately
includes archaic words that I use for such occasions. I don't think it
let me down more than once or twice even with Clark Ashton Smith.
The only problem is that sometimes the Finnish translations are also
archaic enough to be unfamiliar to me.
--
Juho Julkunen
Greg Goss
>> I really liked _Stranger_ when it first came out. �I did not care for
>> _Friday_ either.
>
>I was a teenager when I read "Stranger". I knew it was strange, but I
>found it interesting.
Stranger didn't work for me as a late teen.
>Then I read "I will Fear No Evil." I kind of liked most of the book
>(I was still young), but hated the ending. And I was beginning to
>realize that these books were... quite unlike all the other Heinlein
>I'd read to that point.
Evil was mostly OK for the first 70% or so. Then it gradually fell
apart.
>Then I started "Time Enough for Love". And I failed to finish it.
>Part of the fault lay with the cheap binding (literally fell apart
>while I was reading it -- that had never happened to me before), but
>mostly, I was bored.
When Heinlein suddenly realized he was mortal, he came up with a way
to take a bunch of stories that never quite jelled, assign them all to
Laz and make the collection almost work as a whole. I liked the
individual novelettes and tuned out most of the connective tissue.
>I read "Moon is Harsh Mistress" (that _should_ have been the title) a
>few years later, and shortly after reading "The Rolling Stones". I
>found them quite similar in flavor. Loved both of those...
Depending on my mood, either Mistress or Citizen of the Galaxy is my
favourite Heinlein. I liked how Heinlein placed Granny Stone into
Mistress as a rock-throwing (bomb throwing?) early teen to fit with
his other book written much earlier.
Stones didn't work well for me. I love most of his juvies, but Stones
was an exception.
I also liked how one of the very late books with Laz and co fighting a
time war has them bunking down in Room "L" of the Raffles hotel and
expressing skepticism at the brass plate set into one wall. Of course
the revolutionary fervor had settled into an ossified bureaucracy by
the time in question.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Greg Goss
>In article <ccef1326-a73e-48b5...@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Shawn Wilson <ikono...@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Feb 23, 6:27=A0pm, Alessandro Preziosi <lsnprezi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I need someone to suggest me a good book, maybe you could tell me
>>> what's your favourite or something else you think i might like.
>
>>As for SF recommendations, as I said I don't care all that much for
>>Asimov, and my preferences are much like the others here especially re
>>Heinlein's Juveniles (my first time was 'Have Spacesuit, Will
>>Travel').
>
>Mine was _Tunnel in the Sky_.
I read about a third of Red Planet when my older brother brought it
home from the library. I couldn't remember the author and was too
independent (at least of my older brother) to ask him. I rediscovered
Heinlein independently just under a year later with Rocket Ship
Gallileo.
My fave juvie was Citizen of the Galaxy, though it's a bit different.
His initial sale of that one was as a serial in Analog/Astounding,
rather than as a library edition or however the other juvies were
sold, so it's edited a bit differently. Other juvies I liked were
Doorway in the Sky, Space Patrol, and, oh whatthehell, Red Planet. RP
is a bit heavyhanded for adults to read.
Michael Grosberg
wrote:
> Thank you all for your suggestions,
> I tried to sum them up in a word file, and now i think I'm gonna start
> with these three:
> Neuromancer, Accelerando, and Wasp.
> I think that I won't follow the rules and start with Accelerando, if I
> find it too difficult i'll put it aside for a while and read another
> one.
> As i'm Italian i guess it won't be easy, probably I'll have to read at
> least 2 pages of dictionary for every page of the book :-)
A dictionary won't be enough. There are terms there that only exist in
the minds of futurologists and physicists. Be sure to have wikipedia
open on a laptop nearby.
Michael Stemper
>In article <hmgh6m$pa4$3...@news.eternal-september.org>, Michael Stemper (mste...@walkabout.empros.com) says...
>> In article <MPG.25f239434...@news.individual.net>, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> writes:
>> >One thing: get an English-English dictionary. That way you really learn
>> >the language, and you don't learn silly dictionary-mistakes (all too
>> >common because many words have several meanings, and in an English-Xxxxx
>> >dictionary it's too easy to pick the wrong one).
>> When you get to authors such as Lovecraft or Donaldson, you'll encounter
>> words that, although technically English, are unknown to 99% of us, and
>> not to be found in any but the thickest unabridged versions.
>
>I have a lovely thick English-Finnish dictionary which deliberately
>includes archaic words that I use for such occasions. I don't think it
>let me down more than once or twice even with Clark Ashton Smith.
>
>The only problem is that sometimes the Finnish translations are also
>archaic enough to be unfamiliar to me.
It sounds as if the dictionary's spot on, then. You get the same
experience as native English speakers do.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
Anthony Nance
Many of them are unknown to Donaldson too, but he used 'em anyway.
- Tony
Jerry Brown
s/Patrol/Cadet/
>is a bit heavyhanded for adults to read.
Jerry Brown
--
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Dr. Rufo
> mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
< snip >
> My fave juvie was Citizen of the Galaxy, though it's a bit different.
> His initial sale of that one was as a serial in Analog/Astounding,
> rather than as a library edition or however the other juvies were
> sold, so it's edited a bit differently. Other juvies I liked were
> Doorway in the Sky, Space Patrol, and, oh whatthehell, Red Planet. RP
> is a bit heavyhanded for adults to read.
>
FWIW, did you read these books in a translation from the original
English - or is is just faulty wetware?
I ask because the book you name "Doorway in the Sky" is really named
"Tunnel in the Sky" and "Space Patrol" is "Space Cadet."
Also: *Several* of the juvenile novels were sold to other markets before
appearing in their Scribners editions. I think that included THE ROLLING
STONES which was serialized as "Tramp Space ship" and BETWEEN PLANETS
which appeared as "Planets in Combat" My wetware fails beyond those two.
Greg Goss
D'oh! I guess it's time to dig out the books and read 'em again.
Building the library area got derailed when my late wife was sick
during the move-in, and the library never did get stocked. There's
several bookshelves covered in drywall dust from a badly managed
remodelling project, and a bunch of boxes, and I only got half a box
onto the shelves (to be inundated in gypsum by my later-fired
handyman.) Anyhow, I last read through the juvies probably in the
eighties. (Doorway and Galaxy were read more recently)
Greg Goss
>Greg Goss wrote:
>> mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>
>< snip >
>> My fave juvie was Citizen of the Galaxy, though it's a bit different.
>> His initial sale of that one was as a serial in Analog/Astounding,
>> rather than as a library edition or however the other juvies were
>> sold, so it's edited a bit differently. Other juvies I liked were
>> Doorway in the Sky, Space Patrol, and, oh whatthehell, Red Planet. RP
>> is a bit heavyhanded for adults to read.
>>
>
>FWIW, did you read these books in a translation from the original
>English - or is is just faulty wetware?
I don't know any languages besides English and its bastard subdialect
"geek". My mistranslation of those titles was just faltering wetware.
>I ask because the book you name "Doorway in the Sky" is really named
>"Tunnel in the Sky" and "Space Patrol" is "Space Cadet."
Tunnel got mangled because of the image on the cover of the DelRey
edition that I last read. Space Patrol got mangled by mismapping to
the fifties radio serial.
Now that you've corrected me, "Doorways" (plural) is a Zelazny novel
that I always misremember as a Robinett book.
Sometimes I wonder if I should just wipe my wetware and reload it from
scratch.
Mike Schilling
>> I ask because the book you name "Doorway in the Sky" is really named
>> "Tunnel in the Sky" and "Space Patrol" is "Space Cadet."
>
> Tunnel got mangled because of the image on the cover of the DelRey
> edition that I last read.
And perhaps a synapse crossed with _The Door into Summer_. Anyway, I
confuse them at times.
Matt Hughes
> I need someone to suggest me a good book, maybe you could tell me
> what's your favourite or something else you think i might like.
Anything by Jack Vance, but especially The Dragon Masters ( nothing to
do with dragons, though). That's the Vance book that I started with,
back in 1962.
Delos Books, an Italian publisher, publishes plenty of good sf in
translation. Last year they brought out one of mine -- "Guth Bandar
Esploratore della noosfera".
Matt Hughes
http://www.archonate.com
S*
> Delos Books, an Italian publisher, publishes plenty of good sf in
> translation. Last year they brought out one of mine -- "Guth Bandar
> Esploratore della noosfera".
Thanks for supporting us Matt :-)
I'm a Jack Vance fan since I read one of his book for the first time,
about 30 yrs ago, and I like your works too!
S*
William December Starr
thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) said:
> Days passed. For the evil that was growing in the new machines,
> each hour was longer than all the time before. Now the newborn was
> less than an hour from its great flowering, it's safe spread across
> interstellar spaces. [...] The hours came to minutes, the minutes
> to seconds. And now each second was as long as all the time before.
>
> --- The Flowering of the Blight
> Vernor Vinge, "A Fire Upon the Deep"
It's its, not it's.
-- wds
William December Starr
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) said:
> Another note, one that applies specifically to speculative
> fiction, may help. Since these works are usually set in places
> other than the Earth of 2010, they frequently contain words that
> you won't find in any dictionary. A Spanish friend of mine was
> extremely frustrated when she first read _Dune_, because she
> didn't know this, and lots of words that Herbert used weren't in
> her dictionary. She was doubly frustrated when she reached the end
> and discovered a glossary of all of those words.
Whereas I read it in English and therefore was only singly
frustrated when I discovered the glossary at the end.
An sfnal book with many made-up terms an no glossary at all is
acceptable. (I might not enjoy the experience, but that's a
different matter.) But to have a glossary and _hide_ it like that...
-- wds
Gene Wirchenko
Starr) wrote:
It's "It's 'its', not 'it's'", not "It's its, not it's".
Do remember to invert the quote type when unpacking: the desired
form is:
It's "its", not "it's".
I am a punctuation Innie. Adjust the final period to be within
the quote if you are are an outie.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
David DeLaney
>wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
>>thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) said:
>>> Days passed. For the evil that was growing in the new machines,
>>> each hour was longer than all the time before. Now the newborn was
>>> less than an hour from its great flowering, it's safe spread across
>>> interstellar spaces. [...] The hours came to minutes, the minutes
>>> to seconds. And now each second was as long as all the time before.
>>>
>>> --- The Flowering of the Blight
>>> Vernor Vinge, "A Fire Upon the Deep"
>>
>>It's its, not it's.
>
> It's "It's 'its', not 'it's'", not "It's its, not it's".
but not-is-not is not is!
> Do remember to invert the quote type when unpacking: the desired
>form is:
> It's "its", not "it's".
>
> I am a punctuation Innie. Adjust the final period to be within
>the quote if you are are an outie.
laputa, come home ,all is forgiven
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.