Fantasy Recommendations
lunamielero
away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
I also don't mind stories in the grey area between fantasy and science
fiction.
So here's the obligatory list of some things I've read, which I've liked
and disliked:
Jack Vance - I have a copy of the Dying Earth omnibus, which I enjoyed,
although not so much as the Lyonesse trilogy. I like most of his SF,
although _Planet of Adventure_ seemed like a bad ripoff of ERB's Carson
of Venus[1].
Lovecraft - I really like the idea of his mythos, but actually reading
his stories did not do that much for me. Perhaps this is from being
jaded by having read too much other SF or horror, particularly that which
bore his influence.
Michael Moorcock - I've read through the Elric saga but none of the other
EC stories. I liked that he was trying not to be Tolkien. I liked the
darkness of the setting and the strangeness of the magic. I probably
would have liked it even more had I read it as a teenager.
Fritz Leiber - Every once in a while you need pulp like the Fafhrd/Mouser
tales.
Robert Jordan - I couldn't get past _Eye of the World_. People complain
that nothing much happens in the later books. I reply that the first
book felt a bit padded for my tastes.
Terry Pratchett - I've only read _The Fifth Element_. I liked the story,
but the humor was hit and miss for me.
Gene Wolfe - I've read the New Sun series, and half of the Long Sun
series which I also enjoyed. I haven't read much else by him.
China Mieville - Having read _Perdido Street Station_, I appreciated the
setting. I'm not sure why I haven't been tempted to read further on in
the series, perhaps the downer of the ending.
Steven Brust - I've read most of the Vlad series and the first two Paarfi
romances. I liked most of them, except for Issola with the Jenoine.
Suzanna Clarke - I thought the Strange/Norrell book was okay but petered
out at the end.
Kage Baker - _Anvil of the World_ had a blurb comparing it to Vance,
which explains why I bought it. There were a few moments where the
interaction between the characters was a bit too "cute" but not enough to
ruin it.
1. Seeing as I'm writing about Vance a footnote seemed obligatory. I
actually liked the Carson of Venus series when I read it as a teen, but
don't think it would age well for me.
Gene Ward Smith
lunamielero wrote:
> As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
> invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
> exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
Tim Powers, maybe?
Michael Grosberg
lunamielero wrote:
> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
> away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
> or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
> Terry Pratchett - I've only read _The Fifth Element_. I liked the story,
> but the humor was hit and miss for me.
Try some more Pratchetts. Thankfully you can read him out of order (at
least, this is what I've been doing for the past couple of years, with
no adverse effects). Even if you don't like the humor, his recent
output is better in terms of characterization and plot. Try _Going
Postal_.
My other recommendations:
_Metropolitan_ by Walter Jon Williams. Urban fantasy in an alternate
world in which magic is used and metered much the same as electricity
is in our world. The atmosphere in the book is similar to early pulp
SF: think Fritz Lang's "Metropolis" with magic.
There's one sequel, _City on Fire_, which ends in a cliffhanger, but
the third book was never written. this is a book to be read for his
atmosphere more than for its plot, and the protagonist may not seem
very interesting at first: A review I read once compared reading it to
being in a wonderful party, stuck in a conversation with a very boring
guest. Any, the sequel more than makes up for it.
_The Iron Dragon's Daughter_ by Michael Swanwick: A wonderful book,
very dark but unbelievably imaginitive, about a human girl abducted to
the realm of faerie... where there are malls and factories and racism
and cybernetic/magical dragons which resemble jetfighters with AI (the
"Iron Dragon" in the title). It's unlike any book I ever read. The
magic/technology mix Swanwick created for the setting is unique: for
example, an the shape of the lines in electric circuit diagram is ALSO
a magical rune that can be attuned to if you meditate on it.
Eric Walker
> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. . . .
This is self-promoting, but, I think, appropriate:
Great Science-Fiction & Fantasy Works
http://greatsfandf.com/
You should be able to sort the science fiction from the fantasy with
little difficulty. Do note, in addition to the site's main listings,
the new pages listing unreviewed but likely candidates (as linked on at
the upper left of the site front page).
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker, webmaster
Great Science-Fiction & Fantasy Works
GSV Three Minds in a Can
wonderful person lunamielero <don...@tempt.it> said
>I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
>away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
>or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
>As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
>invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
>exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
Here's a few to get you started then .. a thousand more sugegstions will
be along shortly (if they haven't been already).
Charles de lint - I'd recommend _Moonheart_ or _Somewhere to be Flying_.
John Crowley - _Little, Big_ (but it is a bit slow and some folsk see
the ending comign a mile away).
Robert Holdstock - the whole _Mythago Wood_ thing.
Guy Gavriel Kay - practically anything, but _A Song for Arbonne_ may be
easiest to get into.
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
6,864 Km walked. 1,202Km PROWs surveyed. 21.8% complete.
serg271
lunamielero wrote:
> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
> away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
> or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
Martha Wells
_Wheel of Infinite_ - very good plot.
_Ile-Rien_ series - "gas-lamp" fantasy
Michael Swanwik
_Iron Dragon Doughter_ technofantasy (elfs are present but not quite
traditional)
Luna
lunamielero <don...@tempt.it> wrote:
> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
> away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
> or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
> As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
> invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
> exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
>
Clive Barker: I'd start with _Weaveworld_, because that's where I
started, and I was hooked. A lot of people associate Barker with
horror, though I'd classify him as more "dark modern fantasy."
Jonathan Carroll: Shelved in regular fiction, but contains magic.
Doesn't matter which book you start with, because they're all sort of
interwoven and about the same people and some of the same events from
different perspectives.
Tom Robbins: _Skinny Legs and All_ is my favorite of his. Again,
shelved in regular fiction, but contains, among other things, sentient
objects that become animate, but it's definitely for adults.
Sea Wasp
> lunamielero wrote:
>
>
>>I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. . . .
>
>
> This is self-promoting, but, I think, appropriate:
>
> Great Science-Fiction & Fantasy Works
> http://greatsfandf.com/
>
> You should be able to sort the science fiction from the fantasy with
> little difficulty.
Eric's site is a good idea/starting point for just about any F/SF
search. His tastes may not be the same as yours (they aren't the same
as mine) but he covers a broad range.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
art...@yahoo.com
And his buddy James Blaylock The Last Coin for example
And some of Fritz Leiber's stuff Our Lady of Darkness and Conjure Wife,
for example
Snakes and Babies
without anyone recommending Robin Hobb. All wonderful stuff, but you
have to start at the beginning with Assassin's Apprentice and then read
through. She's just published the second book of her current trilogy
(unrelated to the Farseer books) and I'm diggin' it, but for the
uninitiated, I have to point you back to FitzChivalry & co. Under her
other name, Megan Lindholm, she cowrote with Steven Brust -- a book
called The Gypsy. I haven't read it yet, but you are reminding me that
I need to...
Her books are harder to come by these days, but R. A. Macavoy has some
good, good books, and I would probably send you to Tea With the Black
Dragon first (if you can find it!)
I would second Charles De Lint, though I must warn you that after a few
Newford stories things begin to seem a little too familiar, but the
first 2 or 3 you read will entertain you mightily. My faves are "The
Little Country" (not a Newford novel), Memory and Dream (very much a
Newford book) and the two books collected together as Jack of Kinrowan
(kind of an early proto-Newford setting)
And although they are ostensibly Science Fiction, I have to say that
the Darkover novels by Marion Zimmer Bradley have been life-long
companions of mine and have a strong fantasy element. Start anywhere,
and dig in. But then, you prob'ly know all about those...
lunamielero
news:lunachick-0929F...@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In article <Xns9853EA5706...@216.196.97.136>,
> lunamielero <don...@tempt.it> wrote:
>
>> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to
>> stay away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking
>> for elves or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>>
>> As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings
>> of invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be
>> mysterious, exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
>>
>
> Clive Barker: I'd start with _Weaveworld_, because that's where I
> started, and I was hooked. A lot of people associate Barker with
> horror, though I'd classify him as more "dark modern fantasy."
>
I've read this and _Imajica_ and enjoyed both. I thought I heard his
newer stuff didn't really live up, though.
>
> Tom Robbins: _Skinny Legs and All_ is my favorite of his. Again,
> shelved in regular fiction, but contains, among other things, sentient
> objects that become animate, but it's definitely for adults.
I have a few of his books, compliments of an ex girlfriend. I couldn't
get through _Still Life With Woodpecker_ and thought the Roadside
Attraction one was okay.
Anthony Nance
>away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
>or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
>As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
>invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
>exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
>
>I also don't mind stories in the grey area between fantasy and science
>fiction.
Have you tried Roger Zelazny? A lot of his stories are fantasy
or live in the grey area you mention. _Lord of Light_ is one of
his best known works and a very good intro to Zelazny as far as
tone and style go. The first five Amber books are also highly
regarded. In addition to those, _Creatures of Light and Darkness_
certainly fits both mysterious and "just plain weird". _Jack of
Shadows_ is set in a world that's half light (the science side)
and half darkness (the magic side). A pretty reliable rule of
thumb is to stay away from his co-authored books, by the way.
Tony
Evelyn C. Leeper
> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
> away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
> or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
> As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
> invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
> exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
>
> I also don't mind stories in the grey area between fantasy and science
> fiction.
Off the top of my head:
- Magical Realists in general
- Jorge Luis Borges
- Jeffrey Barlough
- the authors/works chosen by Terri Windling in the first 16 volumes of
THE YEAR'S BEST FANTASY AND HORROR (note that I am recommending only the
fantasy, not the horror, and only the volumes that Windling worked on--I
don't think her replacements have done quite as good a job)
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Real charity doesn't care if it's tax-deductible or not. -Dan Bennett
lunamielero
news:1160140862.8...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
I haven't heard much of James Blaylock. Please fill me in.
lunamielero
news:1160121386.1...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
>
> lunamielero wrote:
>> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to
>> stay away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking
>> for elves or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
>
>
> My other recommendations:
>
>
> _The Iron Dragon's Daughter_ by Michael Swanwick: A wonderful book,
> very dark but unbelievably imaginitive, about a human girl abducted to
> the realm of faerie... where there are malls and factories and racism
> and cybernetic/magical dragons which resemble jetfighters with AI (the
> "Iron Dragon" in the title). It's unlike any book I ever read. The
> magic/technology mix Swanwick created for the setting is unique: for
> example, an the shape of the lines in electric circuit diagram is ALSO
> a magical rune that can be attuned to if you meditate on it.
>
This does sound quite imaginative.
art...@yahoo.com
lunamielero wrote:
> >
>
> I haven't heard much of James Blaylock. Please fill me in.
His stories tend to be on the border of Horror and Fanstasy. Here you
can find some (too short) descriptions of his work:
http://www.sybertooth.com/blaylock/index.htm
In addition to the Last Coin, I enjoyed The Paper Grail, All the Bells
on Earth and Winter Tides, while The Rainy Season was only fair. Most
of these stories are fairly light and humorous (Not so much Winter
Tides or The Rainy Season).
Since I forgot him before, I should also mention Sean Stewart
especially Galveston.
Michael McKenny
lunamielero (don...@tempt.it) writes:
> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
> away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
> or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
> As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
> invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
> exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
>
> I also don't mind stories in the grey area between fantasy and science
> fiction.
Okay. Let me know whether Rainbow is your cup of tea or not.
http://www.geocities.com/solarguard/bio/rbow/index.html
One thing about fantasy is also the rhythm of the language. Have you read
Clark Ashton Smith, A Merritt, Lord Dunsany, Francis Stevens, Patricia
McKillip, for example? What did you think?
Thrive,
M.
Randy Money
> Eric Walker wrote:
>
>> lunamielero wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> This is self-promoting, but, I think, appropriate:
>>
>> Great Science-Fiction & Fantasy Works
>> http://greatsfandf.com/
>>
>> You should be able to sort the science fiction from the fantasy with
>> little difficulty.
>
>
> Eric's site is a good idea/starting point for just about any F/SF
> search. His tastes may not be the same as yours (they aren't the same as
> mine) but he covers a broad range.
Seconded.
Which doesn't mean I won't offer some recommendations of my own, some
seconding the recommendations of others.
Story collections:
Angela Carter, _The Bloody Chamber and Other Stories_. Story collection.
Fairy tales rewritten from a woman's point of view. Feminist without
stridency or preaching, and with a fair amount of humor and an erotic
sensibility. I've come across nothing else quite like them, though I
ahve yet to read Tanith Lee's _Red as Blood_.
Peter Beagle, _The Rhinocerus Who Quoted Nieztsche_. Includes perennial
anthology favorites, "Lila the Werewolf" and "Come Lady Death" (hadn't
noticed until my latest reading how much this feels like the film "Death
Takes a Holiday"), and newer stories, "The Naga" (very nice), "Julie's
Unicorn" (return of older Farrell from "Lila..." and a touching story),
and what is arguably the best story in the book, "Professor Gottesman
and the Indian Rhinocerus."
[You mentioned Lovecraft, so I'll mention these]
Fred Chappell, _More Shapes than One_. Story collection including the
very Lovecraftian "The Adder," a great, fun story mixing HPL with
Milton, and "Lineus Forgets" a Hoffmanesque or maybe Hawthornian work.
Other stories are more contemporary than the latter and "Weird Tales"
even includes HPL and Hart Crane as characters.
Thomas Ligotti, _The Nightmare Factory_ or _The Shadow at the Bottom of
the World_. Lovecraftian in his ability to set mood and atmosphere, but
in some ways more playful, and in most ways more mindful of the
philosophy behind his horrors. He has not written a novel, but only
short stories. The former collection is the more complete, containing
most of his stories up to the time of publication, but it is also more
difficult to find at a reasonable price. The latter looks like a good
sampler.
Clark Ashton Smith, _Zothique_. A series of stories set in the last days
of Earth and of mankind, after magic has returned along with an
infestation of necromancers. Smith is another whose prose may put off
some readers, but I found him a smoother stylist in these stories than
Lovecraft usually was. I'd say these works bridge the gap between HPL's
and what I've read of Robert E. Howard's. There's more emphasis on the
Earthly exotic than there is in Lovecraft, and so a sensuality you don't
find in HPL, and a greater emphasis on brains than in what I've read of
Howard, so there are no mighty-thewed barbarians, at least none I can
recall; Smith's irony, though, I believe is exclusive to Smith among his
contemporaries. Smith is said to be an influence on Jack Vance's "Dying
Earth" stories and so, at least by extension, on Gene Wolfe.
Brian MacNaughton, _The Throne of Bones_. These stories are more
interconnected than are Smith's stories in _Zothique_, in particular the
suite of short stories that make up the title story. This is an
excellent homage to Smith; though MacNaughton's prose doesn't rise to
Smith's level, his story-telling is more complex. Warning: There be
ghouls here, and they have not nice table-manners.
Some novels:
Ursula K. Le Guin, The Earthsea series. You probably know of them, but
on the off chance you don't... They were written for young adults
before there was a YA category, but they are appealing reading for
adults, too.
Alice Hoffman, _Practical Magic_. Excellent novel of two sisters, both
witches, their differences as individuals, their relationship in spite
of differences, and how they survive in the world. Forego the movie in
spite of a near-perfect cast. For reasons I can't quite put my finger
on, this novel makes me think of Bradbury, but Bradbury with his prose
under control and writing from a woman's perspective about other women.
Sean Stewart, _Resurrection Man_. Fine novel of an 'angel' in a world
coping with the slow seeping in of magic since the end of WWII. _The
Night Watch_ and _Galveston_ are related, but I haven't gotten to them yet.
William Kotzwinkle, _Fata Morgana_. A novel with the depth of cotton
candy and the charm of a conman. A Paris detective investigates the
doings of a celebrated magician. Great fun.
Patrick Susskind, _Perfume_. I'm not sure whether to include this or
not. Rightfully, its more a mainstream historical novel, with a healthy
dose of horror, but Susskind (and/or his translator) does a wonderful
job of focusing on and evoking the sense of smell. I expected this to be
a slow read, but it flew by and I was enthralled the whole way.
Christopher Moore, _Personal Demonkeeping_ & _The Stupidest Angel_. I'm
not confident that you'll like these -- they are humorous fantasy in
which the tone of narration will either appeal or it won't. I recommend
PD in order to get acquainted with the characters (there are other books
between these two and some characters overlap), but as long as you
recall it's a first novel with the flaws most first novels have, you may
find it entertaining.
Seconding,
Jonathan Carroll, _The Land of Laughs_ & _Bones of the Moon_, in particular
Fritz Leiber, _Conjure Wife_, _Our Lady of Darkness_
Robert Holdstock, _Mythago Wood_
Randy M.
David Tate
>
> So here's the obligatory list of some things I've read, which I've liked
> and disliked:
>
> Jack Vance - I have a copy of the Dying Earth omnibus, which I enjoyed,
> although not so much as the Lyonesse trilogy.
Unfortunately, nobody else is quite like Vance. Matt Hughes works the
same side of the street; you might try his stuff.
> Lovecraft - I really like the idea of his mythos, but actually reading
> his stories did not do that much for me. Perhaps this is from being
> jaded by having read too much other SF or horror, particularly that which
> bore his influence.
Aha! Tying in to the elsethread Zelazny recommendation (seconded), you
need to read _A Night in the Lonesome October_. And it's the perfect
month for it! Many of my friends read it one day/chapter at a time
over the month; I can't imagine being able to hold back that way on my
first time through it.
> Gene Wolfe - I've read the New Sun series, and half of the Long Sun
> series which I also enjoyed. I haven't read much else by him.
You like Vance and Wolfe... Have you read any Avram Davidson? He's
not like either, but he partakes of the same fruits. _The Phoenix and
the Mirror_ is his best novel, and a good intro. _The Adventures of
Dr. Eszterhazy_ is an outstanding collection with a recurring character
and setting, though Eric (and others) will quibble with the inclusion
of the later-written stories. Personally, I can't live without the
story "Cornet Eszterhazy", so I'm willing to take the other late
stories along with it.
> Steven Brust - I've read most of the Vlad series and the first two Paarfi
> romances. I liked most of them, except for Issola with the Jenoine.
This leads back to the Zelazny recommendation; Zelazny was Brust's
forebear in "first person smartass" narrative.
Hmm. Have you read any Glen Cook?
Mentioned by others, but seconded:
Tim Powers (_The Anubis Gates_, _On Stranger Tides_, _Last Call_)
Other works not yet mentioned by anyone, that might match your
expressed tastes:
_The Curse of Chalion_, Lois McMaster Bujold. I will overhype it if I
attempt to describe it.
_When the King Comes Home_, Caroline Stevermer
David Tate
Nancy Lebovitz
Randy Money <rbm...@spamblock.syr.edu> wrote:
>
>Peter Beagle, _The Rhinocerus Who Quoted Nieztsche_. Includes perennial
>anthology favorites, "Lila the Werewolf" and "Come Lady Death" (hadn't
>noticed until my latest reading how much this feels like the film "Death
>Takes a Holiday"), and newer stories, "The Naga" (very nice), "Julie's
>Unicorn" (return of older Farrell from "Lila..." and a touching story),
>and what is arguably the best story in the book, "Professor Gottesman
>and the Indian Rhinocerus."
>
to _The Last Unicorn_, which I'm also recommending.
--
Nancy Lebovitz http://www.nancybuttons.com
http://nancylebov.livejournal.com
My two favorite colors are "Oooooh" and "SHINY!".
CrimsonJP
lunamielero wrote:
> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
> away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
> or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
> As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
> invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
> exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
>
> I also don't mind stories in the grey area between fantasy and science
> fiction.
>
> So here's the obligatory list of some things I've read, which I've liked
> and disliked:
Your tastes seem relatively similar to mine, so I'll offer a couple of
suggestions slightly different from those offered by others:
- George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series. First book is "A
Game of Thrones".
This is a big, unfinished fantasy series, so its up to you whether you
start it or not, but I've quite enjoyed it. Its up to book 4 out of
about 6 so far, so hopefully it won't take forever to finish. As you
request, magic is rather subtle and unusual in the world. The first
couple of books basically only hint at magic, with a couple of
exceptions. The world is one in which seasons (winter and summer) last
for years at a time; there may have been a lot of magic in the past,
but it has for the most part died out by the present time. Magic may
to some extent reawaken later in the series, but there won't be any
invisibility rings. The story largely follows political machinations
of royal families (think the War of the Roses), and while their are
certainly bad guys, its not really clear there are good guys. Most
people are pretty gray.
- Anything by Neil Gaiman. I first got into him through the Sandman
graphic novels, which are extremely excellent, and are about the King
of Dreams (literally) and his family, Death, Destiny, etc. The stories
are drawn by different artists, and have deep and interesting stories
which belie any connection to comics. Neil Gaiman's other books all
deal to some extent with magic, but never in a straightforward way.
They come across almost fairytale-ish. Two books which were quite
different but I enjoyed a lot are Stardust, which is literally a fairy
tale, about a boy who travels to fairy lands, and Neverwhere, which is
about a man who finds a secret, gritty, forgotten, and magical world
hidden in the depths of London.
- There are a series of collections, Legends (split into 3 in MMP
format) and Legends II (split into 2), which contain short stories
written by these two and other popular fantasy writers. It might be
fun for you to check those out. Other authors included are Terry
Pratchett, Orson Scott Card, Ursula Le Guin, Tad Willams, Raymond E.
Feist and others. If you like the snippets, you can move to more
substantial works by the authors.
CrimsonJP
Snakes and Babies
David Cowie
> China Mieville - Having read _Perdido Street Station_, I appreciated the
> setting. I'm not sure why I haven't been tempted to read further on in
> the series, perhaps the downer of the ending.
The endings of _The Scar_ and _Iron Council_ aren't much jollier.
--
David Cowie
Containment Failure + 25371:33
Randy Money
> In article <45267A2...@spamblock.syr.edu>,
> Randy Money <rbm...@spamblock.syr.edu> wrote:
>
>>Peter Beagle, _The Rhinocerus Who Quoted Nieztsche_. Includes perennial
>>anthology favorites, "Lila the Werewolf" and "Come Lady Death" (hadn't
>>noticed until my latest reading how much this feels like the film "Death
>>Takes a Holiday"), and newer stories, "The Naga" (very nice), "Julie's
>>Unicorn" (return of older Farrell from "Lila..." and a touching story),
>>and what is arguably the best story in the book, "Professor Gottesman
>>and the Indian Rhinocerus."
>>
>
> And his more recent "The Line Between". It's got "Two Hearts", a sequel
> to _The Last Unicorn_, which I'm also recommending.
Thanks for the reminder. Meant to get it the last time I was at the
bookstore.
Randy M.
Joe Bednorz
>I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
>away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
>or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
Have you read _The Lord of the Rings_ by Tolkien? Or the Hobbit?
Yes they have elves, dwarves and evil overlords. They're still not like
anything else.
Also:
_Red Moon and Black Mountain_ by Joy Chant
_The Weirdstone of Brisingamen_ by Alan Garner
The magic is those is...different. i.e. these are not like RPG based
stories where you can hear the dice rolling in the background. ("I got
a natural 20!")
Good luck finding them (unless you order from Amazon).
I'm serious about recommending those two, but also curious what others
think of them.
>
>Terry Pratchett - I've only read _The Fifth Element_. I liked the story,
>but the humor was hit and miss for me.
The humor in T5E is hit and miss. Most of the later stories involving
Vimes are pretty gritty. Start with _Guards! Guards!_ instead. (I've
detected chords in the humor, when I'm at the top of my game.) _Going
Postal_ is my current favorite.
--
SF at Project Gutenberg: <http://thethunderchild.com/Books/OutofCopyright.html>
Baen Free Online SciFi: <http://www.baen.com/library/>
Baen Free SciFi CDs <http://files.plebian.net/baencd/>
SciFi.com classic/original: <http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/archive.html>
Free SF samples from Baen and Tor: <http://www.webscription.net/catalog.asp>
More links: <http://www.mindspring.com/~jbednorz/Free/>
All the best, Joe Bednorz
Joe Bednorz
>I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
>away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
>or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
Baen has a lot of their stuff available for free on the web, or
excerpts are available on line. Easily enough to tell if you want to
buy the book or not.
Here's one of the many full books:
<http://files.plebian.net/baencd/04-DragonsCD/There%20Will%20be%20Dragons/There_Will_be_Dragons.htm>
Also, see my signature.
Konrad Gaertner
>
> As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
> invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
Brandon Sanderson, _Elantris_ (a stand alone novel)
Robin Hobb, Soldier Son (2 of 3 books written)
> exciting,
Steven Erikson, Malazan series (6 of 10 books written)
Brandon Sanderson, Mistborn (1 of 3 written)
Jonathan Stroud, Bartimaeus trilogy (finished)
> forboding,
PC Hodgell, Kencyrath series (starts with _God Stalk_)
Robin Hobb, Realms of the Elderlings (3 finished trilogies)
George RR Martin, Song of Ice and Fire (4 books written)
> or even just plain weird.
Roger Zelazny, _A Night in the Lonesome October_
Garth Nix, Old Kingdom trilogy (finished)
> I also don't mind stories in the grey area between fantasy and science
> fiction.
Rosemary Kirstein, Steerswoman series (4 books written)
Charles Stross, Merchant Princes series (3 books written)
> So here's the obligatory list of some things I've read, which I've liked
> and disliked:
Thank you for including this.
> Terry Pratchett - I've only read _The Fifth Element_. I liked the story,
> but the humor was hit and miss for me.
That one wasn't trying to be very funny, and it's also late in the
City Watch sub-series (which started in _Guards! Guards!_). If you
want to give him another chance, try any of these:
_Wyrd Sisters_ (start of Witches sub-series)
_Mort_ (start of Death sub-series)
_Pyramids_, _Small Gods_, _The Truth_ (stand alones)
> Steven Brust - I've read most of the Vlad series and the first two Paarfi
> romances. I liked most of them, except for Issola with the Jenoine.
Scott Lynch, _The Lies of Locke Lamora_
> Suzanna Clarke - I thought the Strange/Norrell book was okay but petered
> out at the end.
Namoi Novik, Temeraire series (3 books written)
> Kage Baker - _Anvil of the World_ had a blurb comparing it to Vance,
> which explains why I bought it. There were a few moments where the
> interaction between the characters was a bit too "cute" but not enough to
> ruin it.
Try her Company series; and feel free to skip the short story
collection and even numbered novels.
How do you feel about urban fantasy, especially vampires and
werewolves?
--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - email: gae...@aol.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll
Luna
lunamielero <don...@tempt.it> wrote:
> Luna <luna...@NOSPAMmindspring.com> wrote in
> news:lunachick-0929F...@news.west.earthlink.net:
>
> > In article <Xns9853EA5706...@216.196.97.136>,
> > lunamielero <don...@tempt.it> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to
> >> stay away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking
> >> for elves or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
> >>
> >> As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings
> >> of invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be
> >> mysterious, exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
> >>
> >
> > Clive Barker: I'd start with _Weaveworld_, because that's where I
> > started, and I was hooked. A lot of people associate Barker with
> > horror, though I'd classify him as more "dark modern fantasy."
> >
> I've read this and _Imajica_ and enjoyed both. I thought I heard his
> newer stuff didn't really live up, though.
>
I didn't really pay attention to which ones were newer, but I liked
_Imajica_ too, and _The Great and Secret Show_ and _Everville_ and
_Sacrament_. _Sacrament_ is probably my second favorite after
_Weaveworld_.
> >
> > Tom Robbins: _Skinny Legs and All_ is my favorite of his. Again,
> > shelved in regular fiction, but contains, among other things, sentient
> > objects that become animate, but it's definitely for adults.
>
> I have a few of his books, compliments of an ex girlfriend. I couldn't
> get through _Still Life With Woodpecker_ and thought the Roadside
> Attraction one was okay.
I wasn't a big fan of either of those. _Skinny Legs_ was much richer
and more satisfying imo.
Oh, I forgot to mention: considered more as science fiction, but the
science is so weird it's pretty much magic, and the only book by this
author I'd ever recommend, is _Macroscope_ by Piers Anthony.
Elaine Thompson
<inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 00:02:07 -0500, lunamielero wrote:
>
>>I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
>>away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
>>or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
> Have you read _The Lord of the Rings_ by Tolkien? Or the Hobbit?
>Yes they have elves, dwarves and evil overlords. They're still not like
>anything else.
>
>
> Also:
>
> _Red Moon and Black Mountain_ by Joy Chant
>
> _The Weirdstone of Brisingamen_ by Alan Garner
>
> The magic is those is...different. i.e. these are not like RPG based
>stories where you can hear the dice rolling in the background. ("I got
>a natural 20!")
>
> Good luck finding them (unless you order from Amazon).
>
> I'm serious about recommending those two, but also curious what others
>think of them.
RM&BM has some great and wonderful parts. But as far as I remember my
reaction to it, the whole of the novel is less than the sum of those
parts. Which is a shame.
_Weirdstone_ is plain and simply wonderful, unless you're prone to
claustraphobia.
Given the OP's requirements, has anyone recommended Patricia A.
McKillip or Robin McKinley? Neither go in for evil overlords and
standard magic and both can write wonderful prose.
--
Elaine Thompson <Ela...@KEThompson.org>
Andrew Wheeler
>
> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
> away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
> or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
Some things you might be interested in:
If you're burned out on epic fantasy because you're read too much of it
and it all seems the same, I'd suggest trying Steven Erikson. He's in
the middle of a ten-book series, the first of which is _Gardens of the
Moon_. I will warn you that these are *huge* books; each one is similar
in heft to most people's trilogies. I think of "normal" epic fantasy as
what you have to train on to get yourself mentally ready for Erikson --
his world is huge and complicated, with more kinds of magic, doomed
elder races, and wars than you can shake a stick at. He also doesn't
have any quests, pig-boys or plucky young women.
K.J. Parker is a very dark writer, and I absolutely love her "Scavenger"
Trilogy -- _Shadow_, _Pattern_, and _Memory_. It opens with a man waking
up on a battlefield, amnesiac and the only one alive. It's an amazingly
evocative trip through a authentically medieval world, though, as I
said, it is exceptionally dark.
Sean McMullen's "MoonWorlds" books are a bit more cheerful, though there
are large-scale megadeaths (mostly off camera). The first one is _Voyage
of the Shadowmoon_. He's a bit like what Terry Pratchett would write
like if he were more of a misanthrope and preferred to hide his jokes
very deeply.
Other people have mentioned Tim Powers -- I think his best books are
_Declare_ (a supernatural thriller set in the Cold War era), _Last Call_
(a modern-day poker fantasy), and _The Stress of Her Regard_ (the
Romantic poets and their unnatural loves).
Jonathan Stroud's "Bartimaeus Trilogy" is published as Young Adult, but
don't be fooled by that -- it's one of the best fantasy stories of the
past decade (at least). The first book is _The Eye of Samarkand_.
They're set in an alternate England ruled by magicians (whose powers
come from being able to summon creatures from another dimension and
command their obedience), and it's one of the best examinations of the
lures and perils of power that I've ever read.
--
Andrew Wheeler: Professional Editor, Amateur Wise-Acre
--
If you enjoyed this post, try my blog at
http://antickmusings.blogspot.com
If you hated this post, you probably have bad taste anyway.
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Jonathan Stroud's "Bartimaeus Trilogy" is published as Young Adult, but
> don't be fooled by that -- it's one of the best fantasy stories of the
> past decade (at least). The first book is _The Eye of Samarkand_.
Though it may be easier to find if you use the title _The Amulet of
Samarkand_.
Joe Bednorz
>On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 21:47:41 GMT, Joe Bednorz
><inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 00:02:07 -0500, lunamielero wrote:
>>
>>>I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
>>>away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
>>>or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>>
>> Have you read _The Lord of the Rings_ by Tolkien? Or the Hobbit?
>>Yes they have elves, dwarves and evil overlords. They're still not like
>>anything else.
>>
>>
>> Also:
>>
>> _Red Moon and Black Mountain_ by Joy Chant
>>
>> _The Weirdstone of Brisingamen_ by Alan Garner
>>
>> The magic is those is...different. i.e. these are not like RPG based
>>stories where you can hear the dice rolling in the background. ("I got
>>a natural 20!")
>>
>> Good luck finding them (unless you order from Amazon).
>>
>> I'm serious about recommending those two, but also curious what others
>>think of them.
>
>RM&BM has some great and wonderful parts. But as far as I remember my
>reaction to it, the whole of the novel is less than the sum of those
>parts. Which is a shame.
I see what you're driving at. "Less than the sum of it's parts" I
disagree with. The parts were too good. I wasn't disappointed with the
ending at all. The worst thing I can say about it is that it didn't
draw a whole new mythos like LotR. Praising with faint damns, indeed.
>
>_Weirdstone_ is plain and simply wonderful, unless you're prone to
>claustraphobia.
Ditto on both counts. Fear of drowning + claustrophobia = Don't read.
>
>Given the OP's requirements, has anyone recommended Patricia A.
>McKillip or Robin McKinley? Neither go in for evil overlords and
>standard magic and both can write wonderful prose.
My SFBC edition of Patricia A. McKillip's "RiddleMaster of Hed" got
read to pieces. Don't know how she's done since. Definitely
non-standard magic in that one. No elves, dwarves, or evil overlords
either. No big quest and the threat is mysterious and remote almost to
the vanishing point. Things seemed to just keep happening with no rhyme
or reason, but still with a threatening atmosphere. Almost a reverse
LotR.
For some reason it reminds me of Lloyd Alexander's "Chronicles of
Prydain." Celtic magic, no elves or dwarves. There is a big bad guy,
but he's in the background for most of the books. Definitely recommend
that as well.
They're being reprinted now (2006). The final book received the
Newbery Medal for contribution to children's literature. So did "A
Wrinkle in Time," which might well be another recommendation.
Joe Bednorz
>I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
>away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
>or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
>As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
>invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
>exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
>
>I also don't mind stories in the grey area between fantasy and science
>fiction.
>
David Drake's _Lord of the Isles_ series seems to fit. Performing
magic is a terrible physical strain. No elves. No dwarves. No evil
overlords.
He doesn't seem popular here. But you don't have to take anyone's
word on it before spending your money. Baen has free samples available
on the web:
<http://www.webscription.net/chapters/Tor/1011255000.htm?blurb>
lunamielero
news:4526FD56...@optonline.com:
> lunamielero wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to
>> stay away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking
>> for elves or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
> Some things you might be interested in:
>
>
> Sean McMullen's "MoonWorlds" books are a bit more cheerful, though
> there are large-scale megadeaths (mostly off camera). The first one is
> _Voyage of the Shadowmoon_. He's a bit like what Terry Pratchett would
> write like if he were more of a misanthrope and preferred to hide his
> jokes very deeply.
>
The same guy who wrote the "Souls in the Great Machine" trilogy?
lunamielero
news:majdi2toe195irvmq...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 00:02:07 -0500, lunamielero wrote:
>
>>I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to
>>stay away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking
>>for elves or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
> Have you read _The Lord of the Rings_ by Tolkien? Or the Hobbit?
> Yes they have elves, dwarves and evil overlords. They're still not
> like anything else.
>
I kind of cracked up when I read this. Yes, I have read all of the above,
plus the Silmarillion. His works I like, but most other works with those
elements feel derivative to me.
htn963
lunamielero wrote:
> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
> away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
> or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
Speaking as someone with a low tolerance for those tropes, and who
thinks that Lord of the Rings is one of the most boring and overrated
series ever, I wholeheartedly recommend Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast
trilogy and Tanith Lee's Flat Earth Series (5 books). A guarded
recommendation for George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series,
since it is really much more great medieval soap opera than good
fantasy, and does contain (so far) one dwarf and 3 baby dragons.
> As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
> invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
> exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
Add "dark" to that string of adjectives, then methinks most of
Tanith Lee's works should fill the bill. She is also one of the most
consistently good (to great) fantasy authors I've come across, and is a
stylist equal to Jack Vance.
> I also don't mind stories in the grey area between fantasy and science
> fiction.
That would, seriously, imo, include most of what then and now
passes as "straight" science fiction, particularly those containing
FTL, AI, time travel, alternate/parallel worlds, utopias based on
communism, or heck, just about any setting that is outside of the solar
system.
--
Ht
Kat R
> My SFBC edition of Patricia A. McKillip's "RiddleMaster of Hed" got
> read to pieces. Don't know how she's done since. Definitely
> non-standard magic in that one. No elves, dwarves, or evil overlords
> either. No big quest and the threat is mysterious and remote almost to
> the vanishing point. Things seemed to just keep happening with no rhyme
> or reason, but still with a threatening atmosphere. Almost a reverse
> LotR.
I just read her YA book _Alphabet of Thorn_ which is a very unusual
fantasy in which translators, librarians, and some very strange magic,
indeed, figure prominently. Time and language are as important as
magic. Very interesting book. And McKillip creates such clean prose,
she's always a joy to read from that perspective.
--
Kat Richardson
Greywalker (Roc, 2006)
Website: http://www.katrichardson.com/
Bloggery: http://katrich.wordpress.com/
Nancy Lebovitz
Joe Bednorz <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> My SFBC edition of Patricia A. McKillip's "RiddleMaster of Hed" got
>read to pieces. Don't know how she's done since. Definitely
>non-standard magic in that one. No elves, dwarves, or evil overlords
>either. No big quest and the threat is mysterious and remote almost to
>the vanishing point. Things seemed to just keep happening with no rhyme
>or reason, but still with a threatening atmosphere. Almost a reverse
>LotR.
>
It all has to do with the transfer of landheirship.
I don't think anyone has mentioned R.A. Lafferty, who wrote very odd
tall-tale-flavored sf. _Fourth Mansions_ might be a good place to start.
Nancy Lebovitz
lunamielero <don...@tempt.it> wrote:
>I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
>away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
>or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
>invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
>exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
Try _Moonwise_ by Greer Gilman.
Thomas Lindgren
> lunamielero wrote:
> > I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
> > away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
> > or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
> Speaking as someone with a low tolerance for those tropes, and who
> thinks that Lord of the Rings is one of the most boring and overrated
> series ever, I wholeheartedly recommend Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast
> trilogy and Tanith Lee's Flat Earth Series (5 books).
I agree. Gormenghast struck me as a bit cold, but I do like
labyrinthine castles and curious micro-societies, so I managed. The
Flat Earth books are more like a particularly hot and feverish take on
the thousand-and-one nights. Also highly recommended. (I went out and
got a collector's copy of that series.)
In addition, try looking for work written before Tolkien. For
instance, Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are great stuff,
with an ironic tone that's rare today. Available in Gollancz's Fantasy
Masterworks series, I believe. One could, as a rule, do worse than
browsing that line, by the way.
> A guarded recommendation for George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and
> Fire series, since it is really much more great medieval soap opera
> than good fantasy, and does contain (so far) one dwarf and 3 baby
> dragons.
Don't forget the zombies.
Best,
Thomas
--
Thomas Lindgren
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."
Joe Bednorz
>In article <i94ei2p9a0ai2q9ie...@4ax.com>,
>Joe Bednorz <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> My SFBC edition of Patricia A. McKillip's "RiddleMaster of Hed" got
>>read to pieces. Don't know how she's done since. Definitely
>>non-standard magic in that one. No elves, dwarves, or evil overlords
>>either. No big quest and the threat is mysterious and remote almost to
>>the vanishing point. Things seemed to just keep happening with no rhyme
>>or reason, but still with a threatening atmosphere. Almost a reverse
>>LotR.
>>
>I'm pretty sure I understand what was going on in the Riddlemaster books.
>It all has to do with the transfer of landheirship.
>
>I don't think anyone has mentioned R.A. Lafferty, who wrote very odd
>tall-tale-flavored sf.
"Very odd tall-tale-flavored sf" is a perfect description.
R.A. Lafferty's "Land of the Great Horses" is available free on-line:
<http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/lafferty2/lafferty21.html>
Quite a few smiles in that one.
"Nine Hundred Grandmothers", ditto:
<http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/lafferty/lafferty1.html>
No comment.
"Narrow Valley":
<http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/lafferty3/lafferty31.html>
Lafferty wrote other several short stories with plots/characters
similar to "Narrow Valley." If you enjoy "Narrow Valley" you should
enjoy them as well.
"The Transcendent Tigers":
<http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/lafferty4/lafferty41.html>
I've tried ten times now to describe how difficult "The Transcendent
Tigers" is to describe.
> _Fourth Mansions_ might be a good place to start.
How much is it like the samples above?
r.r...@thevine.net
>
>lunamielero wrote:
>
>> As far as magic goes, it should be a bit more interesting than rings of
>> invisibility and wands of lightning bolts. Magic should be mysterious,
>> exciting, forboding, or even just plain weird.
>
> Add "dark" to that string of adjectives, then methinks most of
>Tanith Lee's works should fill the bill. She is also one of the most
>consistently good (to great) fantasy authors I've come across, and is a
>stylist equal to Jack Vance.
>
While I will admit that she is a great stylist, she doesn't seem to
think that things like plot and motivation are necessary to a good
story. Or at least she didn't in the "secret books of" stories that I
read. You have characters that do things that make sense in the
situations that they are in, but at the end of the day, it all seemed
to be slice-of-life stories. Why are we following this particular
character and learning these particular facts? No reason that I could
ever figure out. If you like that kind of story, you will love Lee.
If you don't, you won't.
Which is probably why I like her fractured fairy tales better. She
has a plot and theme forced upon her, and you get to admire her style
in handling them.
>> I also don't mind stories in the grey area between fantasy and science
>> fiction.
>
> That would, seriously, imo, include most of what then and now
>passes as "straight" science fiction, particularly those containing
>FTL, AI, time travel, alternate/parallel worlds, utopias based on
>communism, or heck, just about any setting that is outside of the solar
>system.
I will tentatively suggest my favorite story: Cherryh's Morgaine books
(Gate of Ivrel, Well of Shiuan, Fires of Azeroth, and Exile's Gate).
These are often described as SF with a lot of fantasy trappings,
including the most awesome non-magical magical sword you will ever
meet. They are early Cherryh, so may or may not be to your taste.
Rebecca
CrimsonJP
htn963 wrote:
> lunamielero wrote:
> > I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
> > away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
> > or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>
> Speaking as someone with a low tolerance for those tropes, and who
> thinks that Lord of the Rings is one of the most boring and overrated
> series ever, I wholeheartedly recommend Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast
> trilogy and Tanith Lee's Flat Earth Series (5 books). A guarded
> recommendation for George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series,
> since it is really much more great medieval soap opera than good
> fantasy, and does contain (so far) one dwarf and 3 baby dragons.
To be fair, though, it's a "dwarf", not a "Dwarf". Genetically short
humans exist all over the place, even in our world, and are far
different from some sort of Scottish accented bearded mining race. The
dwarf in Martin doesn't even have a beard, though I think he does use
an axe for some short period of time.
CrimsonJP
Howard Brazee
> Speaking as someone with a low tolerance for those tropes, and who
>thinks that Lord of the Rings is one of the most boring and overrated
>series ever, I wholeheartedly recommend Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast
>trilogy and Tanith Lee's Flat Earth Series (5 books).
I enjoyed Gormenghast much more than LotR. But is it Fantasy?
Nancy Lebovitz
Joe Bednorz <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 10:03:26 +0000 (UTC), Nancy Lebovitz wrote:
>
>>In article <i94ei2p9a0ai2q9ie...@4ax.com>,
>>Joe Bednorz <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>I don't think anyone has mentioned R.A. Lafferty, who wrote very odd
>>tall-tale-flavored sf.
>
> "Very odd tall-tale-flavored sf" is a perfect description.
>
><http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/lafferty4/lafferty41.html>
>
> I've tried ten times now to describe how difficult "The Transcendent
>Tigers" is to describe.
It's a cheerfully told horror story. At least to my mind, it used to be
a lot funnier.
>
>> _Fourth Mansions_ might be a good place to start.
>
> How much is it like the samples above?
Lafferty's whimsy is pretty consistant, and _Fourth Mansions_ has plenty
of it. The book's about a reporter who's investigating the four
primary conspiracies who are fighting it out over the mud-colored worm,
or common man. None of them are quite the conspiracies you're used to
hearing about, but it's odd how often I find myself thinking about bits
from it in connection with current events.
I should probably reread it to see how it looks now, and to find out
how political it looks. Lafferty's writing has so much entertaining
flash that his politics (mostly anti-tyranny at any scale) aren't
very conspicuous.
Nancy Lebovitz
Thomas Lindgren <***********@*****.***> wrote:
>"htn963" <htn...@verizon.net> writes:
>
>> lunamielero wrote:
>> > I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay
>> > away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. I'm not looking for elves
>> > or dwarves or evil overlords bent on taking over the world.
>>
>> Speaking as someone with a low tolerance for those tropes, and who
>> thinks that Lord of the Rings is one of the most boring and overrated
>> series ever, I wholeheartedly recommend Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast
>> trilogy and Tanith Lee's Flat Earth Series (5 books).
>
>I agree. Gormenghast struck me as a bit cold, but I do like
>labyrinthine castles and curious micro-societies, so I managed. The
>Flat Earth books are more like a particularly hot and feverish take on
>the thousand-and-one nights. Also highly recommended. (I went out and
>got a collector's copy of that series.)
And that reminds me, there's alway Gene Wolfe's _The Book of the New
Sun_. The magic is probably? mostly? technology, but it's definitely
a tetrology (plus a spare novel and two more slightly related series)
to check out if you're looking for something strange.
Thomas Lindgren
nan...@panix.com (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
> And that reminds me, there's alway Gene Wolfe's _The Book of the New
> Sun_. The magic is probably? mostly? technology, but it's definitely
> a tetrology (plus a spare novel and two more slightly related series)
> to check out if you're looking for something strange.
Indeed. Wolfe is definitely not to be missed, and BOTNS is something
of a modern classic.
Andrew Wheeler
>
> Andrew Wheeler wrote:
> >
> > Jonathan Stroud's "Bartimaeus Trilogy" is published as Young Adult, but
> > don't be fooled by that -- it's one of the best fantasy stories of the
> > past decade (at least). The first book is _The Eye of Samarkand_.
>
> Though it may be easier to find if you use the title _The Amulet of
> Samarkand_.
Um, yes. Thanks for correcting me. The book is on a far shelf, and the
spine has the title in very small type...
Andrew Wheeler
The very same. The tone of the "MoonWorlds" books is quite similar (I'd
call it a bloody-minded joviality), and they're fantasy with odd SF
underpinnings. (Unlike _Souls_ and sequels, which are SF with
unexplained fantasy-ish elements -- like the Call.)
lunamielero
news:1160161310.4...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
>
> Your tastes seem relatively similar to mine, so I'll offer a couple of
> suggestions slightly different from those offered by others:
>
>
> - Anything by Neil Gaiman. I first got into him through the Sandman
> graphic novels, which are extremely excellent, and are about the King
> of Dreams (literally) and his family, Death, Destiny, etc. The
> stories are drawn by different artists, and have deep and interesting
> stories which belie any connection to comics. Neil Gaiman's other
> books all deal to some extent with magic, but never in a
> straightforward way. They come across almost fairytale-ish. Two books
> which were quite different but I enjoyed a lot are Stardust, which is
> literally a fairy tale, about a boy who travels to fairy lands, and
> Neverwhere, which is about a man who finds a secret, gritty,
> forgotten, and magical world hidden in the depths of London.
>
>
I've read and enjoyed Stardust. I haven't heard of Neverwhere though.
Howard Brazee
wrote:
>I've read and enjoyed Stardust. I haven't heard of Neverwhere though.
Both are wonderful - Neverwhere though is one of a handful of my
all-time favorites though. It was a BBC miniseries as well.
Michael McKenny
Randy Money (rbm...@spamblock.syr.edu) writes:
> Clark Ashton Smith, _Zothique_. A series of stories set in the last days
> of Earth and of mankind, after magic has returned along with an
> infestation of necromancers. Smith is another whose prose may put off
> some readers, but I found him a smoother stylist in these stories than
> Lovecraft usually was. I'd say these works bridge the gap between HPL's
> and what I've read of Robert E. Howard's. There's more emphasis on the
> Earthly exotic than there is in Lovecraft, and so a sensuality you don't
> find in HPL, and a greater emphasis on brains than in what I've read of
> Howard, so there are no mighty-thewed barbarians, at least none I can
> recall; Smith's irony, though, I believe is exclusive to Smith among his
> contemporaries. Smith is said to be an influence on Jack Vance's "Dying
> Earth" stories and so, at least by extension, on Gene Wolfe.
Zothique is one of four volumes Lin Carter edited for Ballantine back in
the late 60s/early 70s. The other three were called Hyperboria, Poseidonia
and Xiccarph. These are all exquisitely written. One of my favourite
stories is "The Monster of the Prophecy" from Xiccarph.
>
> Randy M.
>
Peace,
Michael
Eric Walker
> I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. . . .
I meant to mention this before, but better late than never. Another
place you can look for choices is the estimable Jeff VanderMeer's "
Exhaustive Essential Fantasy Reading Lists". It is "lists", plural,
because there is a moderate-length (60 books) "Essential Reading" list
followed by a much longer "Comprehensive List". You can find those on
VanderMeer's blog entry for 10 April 2006:
http://vanderworld.blogspot.com/2006/04/exhaustive-essential-fantasy-reading.html
There is a somewhat modified and updated version of the "complete list"
in his 16 May 2006 entry ("Zee Official Big-Ass Fantasy List"):
http://vanderworld.blogspot.com/2006/05/big-ass-fantasy-list.html
A few comments:
First, VanderMeer's tastes run a bit to the dark side, especially on
the longer list; no harm in that, just be aware that it may be slightly
skewed.
Second, the long list is by no means all Jeff's personal opinion: it
includes, often without Jeff's having read the works, many items
suggested by posters on the Night Shade Books discussion board. As he
concedes, "There's stuff on this list that stinks up the place, but
it's on there." I wish he had stayed solely with expressing his own
opinion, which I consider highly valuable.
Third, not a few items, at least on the long list, are only marginally
(if at all) "fantasy", though I don't want here to start a new Taxonomy
War. As examples, from the top to the bottom, I myself doubt whether
Kobo Abe's _Woman in the Dunes_ is rightly classed a "fantasy", as I
doubt books by Emile Zola. Mais chacun a son gout . . . .
Especially notable also is the inclusion of many books originally
written in languages other than English; a lot of first-water
speculative fiction tends to get passed over in most "best of" lists if
it was not written in English.
Finally, the lists will help you find a number of excellent
speculative-fiction books often classed (largely for marketing
purposes) as "mainstream", and hence not on many sf-based lists.
Naturally, I do not entirely concur with the content of either list, as
I expect Jeff would not entirely concur with the contents of my own
lists. But his lists are an excellent resource.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker, webmaster
Great Science-Fiction & Fantasy Works
Andrew Wheeler
>
> lunamielero wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for recommendations for fantasy literature. I want to stay away from worlds well traveled by EFP authors. . . .
>
> I meant to mention this before, but better late than never. Another
> place you can look for choices is the estimable Jeff VanderMeer's "
> Exhaustive Essential Fantasy Reading Lists". It is "lists", plural,
> because there is a moderate-length (60 books) "Essential Reading" list
> followed by a much longer "Comprehensive List". You can find those on
> VanderMeer's blog entry for 10 April 2006:
>
> http://vanderworld.blogspot.com/2006/04/exhaustive-essential-fantasy-reading.html
>
> There is a somewhat modified and updated version of the "complete list"
> in his 16 May 2006 entry ("Zee Official Big-Ass Fantasy List"):
>
> http://vanderworld.blogspot.com/2006/05/big-ass-fantasy-list.html
One additional comment, to add to Eric's (which I snipped, for brevity):
Jeff's list is explicitly for *writers*, and particularly for those who
want to be cutting-edge, slipstream/fantasy writers. I find that it ends
up mostly being a list of books that have fantastic elements but are not
part of the fantasy genre as we know it. (This can be either wonderful
or unhelpful, depending on what one is looking for; it *is* a great
list, but it's a great list with a particular purpose.)
Jeff's list inspired me to made up one for readers (which is probably
just as idiosyncratic, but they're *my* idiosyncrasies, so I don't
notice them), which is somewhat more genre-focused, on my blog at http://antickmusings.blogspot.com/2006/04/another-essential-fantasy-list.html.
Matt Hughes
David Tate wrote:
> Unfortunately, nobody else is quite like Vance. Matt Hughes works the
> same side of the street; you might try his stuff.
Right now, I'm promoting MAJESTRUM, the first Henghis Hapthorn novel,
and offering the opening 15,000 words as a free read at the link below.
"Exhilarating and thoroughly amusing," says Nick Gevers in the October
Locus.
Matt Hughes
http://www.archonate.com/majestrum
David Goldfarb
David Tate <dt...@ida.org> wrote:
>Aha! Tying in to the elsethread Zelazny recommendation (seconded), you
>need to read _A Night in the Lonesome October_. And it's the perfect
>month for it! Many of my friends read it one day/chapter at a time
>over the month; I can't imagine being able to hold back that way on my
>first time through it.
I tried that last year. I felt it didn't really serve the book well.
--
David Goldfarb |"Obviously proud of knowing a word I didn't know,
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |Horace carefully repeated, 'Meretricious!'.
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |Whereupon I replied, 'And a happy new year to you.'"
| -- Isaac Asimov
Eric Walker
[...]
> Jeff's list is explicitly for *writers*, and particularly for those who want to be cutting-edge, slipstream/fantasy writers.
Excellent point.
> I find that it ends up mostly being a list of books that have fantastic elements but are not part of the fantasy genre as we know it. . . .
Very true. I spent much time online cross-checking those listings on
it not within my ken, and found many of them inappropriate for what I
would call "speculative fiction". (We had here something of a go-round
about taxonomy shortly thereafter.) My cullings from Jeff's list--and
a few other sources, identified on the page below--minus those already
discussed in my main lists, are on my site at--
http://greatsfandf.com/possibles.php
--which will shrink with time as I read the works in question and
either pass on them or absorb them into the main site lists. I have
tried to include, for every author, a few words and especially a
pointer to one or more sites on that author.
Paul Harman
news:1160142143.2...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Personally, I'm flabbergasted that this thread could get this long
> without anyone recommending Robin Hobb.
<sigh> Why doesn't anyone write stand-alone fantasy novels?
Paul
netcat
chatt...@doctorwhowebguide.net says...
_Wizard of Pigeons_ was stand-alone, wasn't it?
rgds,
netcat
Nancy Lebovitz
Snakes and Babies
Wouldn't know for sure, because I ain't in the biz, but I think it's
the marketplace. Check out that pseudonym, don't that tell ya
something? The thing I find shocking about it is that she did all this
stuff to "sell out" but her writing only got better. I love Wizard of
the Pigeons, but that sucker's been out of print for a really long time
and won't be back, because it doesn't fit the market.
Now she uses the vast expanse of text available to her for storytelling
to give her very well realized charachters room to grow & evolve, and
far more than they would in one stand alone book. Personally, I like
the idea of creating worlds to go back and revisit repeatedly.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Lebovitz) wrote:
>In article <MPG.1f9485d36...@news.octanews.com>,
>netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
>>In article <4outqeF...@individual.net>,
>>chatt...@doctorwhowebguide.net says...
>>>
>>> <sigh> Why doesn't anyone write stand-alone fantasy novels?
>>
>>_Wizard of Pigeons_ was stand-alone, wasn't it?
>
>Yes, but it came out in 1986.
I didn't bother mentioning _Touched by the Gods_ because it was 1996.
What about Sharon Shinn or Patricia McKillip, though? They seem to be
writing stand-alones.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
The second issue of Helix is at http://www.helixsf.com
A new Ethshar novel is being serialized at http://www.ethshar.com/thevondishambassador1.html
Stanislaus. B
wrote:
If not fantasy - than what?
It hasn't enough dungeons and dragons, I agree.
Joe Bednorz
THE SEA HAG by David Drake fits that description.
Available to read free online here:
<http://www.webscription.net/10.1125/Baen/0671654241/0671654241.htm>
Nancy Lebovitz
There've been discussions here of fantasies without magic. _Swordspoint_
by Kushner is another canonical example.
It wouldn't be unreasonable for that sort of story to be its own category,
but no one's found a better market for it than fantasy fans.
Konrad Gaertner
Brandon Sanderson's first novel was a stand alone (and very good),
and he's currently posting another stand alone novel online chapter
by chapter:
http://www.timewastersguide.com/boards/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=brandon;action=display;num=1150314036
Diane Duane, _Stealing the Elf-King's Roses_
Stephan Zielinski, _Bad Magic_
maybe Emma Bull's forthcoming _Territory_
--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - email: gae...@aol.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll
Alexey Romanov
> Paul Harman wrote:
>>
>> "Snakes and Babies" <ma...@mattduanegriffin.com> wrote in message
>> news:1160142143.2...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>> Personally, I'm flabbergasted that this thread could get this long
>>> without anyone recommending Robin Hobb.
>>
>> <sigh> Why doesn't anyone write stand-alone fantasy novels?
>
> Brandon Sanderson's first novel was a stand alone (and very good),
> and he's currently posting another stand alone novel online chapter
> by chapter:
>
> http://www.timewastersguide.com/boards/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=brandon;action=display;num=1150314036
>
> Diane Duane, _Stealing the Elf-King's Roses_
> Stephan Zielinski, _Bad Magic_
> maybe Emma Bull's forthcoming _Territory_
Robin McKinley, _Sunshine_
--
Alexey Romanov
"Sam? No one's chasing us."
"What? There's supposed to be an angry mob hot on our heels!
The inspector promised us an angry mob!
"Helix, I believe we've been stood up."
Sea Wasp
Andrew Wheeler
>
> _Wizard of Pigeons_ was stand-alone, wasn't it?
Just to name a few recent, excellent, books:
Brandon Sanderson, _Elantris_ (2005)
Haruki Murakami, _Kafka on the Shore_ (2005, World Fantasy Award Nominee)
Patricia McKillip, _Od Magic_ (2005, World Fantasy Award Nominee)
Nearly all of McKillip's novels are standalones, and she's been
publishing one a year for a while.
Neil Gaiman, _Anansi Boys_ (2005)...and _American Gods_, and
_Neverwhere_, and _Stardust_
Alexander C. Irvine, _The Narrows_ (2005)...and _One King, One Soldier_,
and _A Scattering of Jades_
Ian R. MacLeod, _The House of Storms_ (2005), though it's set in the
same world as his _The Light Ages_
Michael Blumlein, _The Healer_ (2005)
Tim Powers, _Three Days to Never_ (2006)
David Keck, _In the Eye of Heaven_ (2006), though I think a sequel is coming
Delia Sherman, _Changeling_ (2006)
That should be enough to keep you busy or a few days.
htn963
I was about to reply like that but thought it wouldn't much
further the discussion. But it is a valid (if picky) question, so let
me see how a series with no overt magical elements can be classed as
fantasy: it is set in a world that is all to itself with no reference
to any area on earth, past or present, so perhaps it is related to the
alternate world genre; it is filled with characters with droll,
exaggerated features in the Gothic/Victorian/Dickensian vein and is
about an individual's rebellion against centuries of stultifying
tradition, so it may be classed as a romantic fairy tale, albeit a
weighty one.
> It hasn't enough dungeons and dragons, I agree.
Plenty of dungeons (it probably has the biggest castle ever
featured in fantastic literature) but no dragons, thank goodness.
--
Ht
Ahasuerus
> Plenty of dungeons (it probably has the biggest castle ever featured in fantastic literature) [snip]
Last I counted, there were well over 100,000 doors in John DeChancie's
Castle Perilous...
--
Ahasuerus
Sea Wasp
> Stanislaus. B wrote:
>
>>It hasn't enough dungeons and dragons, I agree.
>
>
> Plenty of dungeons (it probably has the biggest castle ever
> featured in fantastic literature) but no dragons, thank goodness.
Lord Valentine's Castle.
Andrew Plotkin
Stoddard's High House contains, possibly, the entire universe. It's
more of a mansion, of course.
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
If the Bush administration hasn't shipped you to Syria for interrogation,
it's for one reason: they don't feel like it. Not because you're patriotic.
Howard Brazee
><sigh> Why doesn't anyone write stand-alone fantasy novels?
You mean like _The Spirit Ring_?
Authors return to the scene that pays them well.
Elaine Thompson
<acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>netcat wrote:
>>
>> In article <4outqeF...@individual.net>,
>> chatt...@doctorwhowebguide.net says...
>> >
>> > <sigh> Why doesn't anyone write stand-alone fantasy novels?
>>
>> _Wizard of Pigeons_ was stand-alone, wasn't it?
>
>Just to name a few recent, excellent, books:
snip
Guy Gavriel Kay usually writes stand alones, although his first work
was a trilogy, and he more recently committed duology.
>
>Patricia McKillip, _Od Magic_ (2005, World Fantasy Award Nominee)
> Nearly all of McKillip's novels are standalones, and she's been
>publishing one a year for a while.
Her connected books are the Riddlemaster trilogy and _Winter Rose_ &
_Solstice Night_ (or something like that). Which is a duology in so
far as it's set in the same place, a hundred years or more apart. No
continuing characters, but what was done in the first book (WR) needs
to be rethought in the second.
>
>Tim Powers, _Three Days to Never_ (2006)
And better IMO is DECLARE.
All of his books can be read as standalones. Even that set of three
that are linked.
--
Elaine Thompson <Ela...@KEThompson.org>
Evelyn C. Leeper
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:41:57 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
> <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>> netcat wrote:
>>> In article <4outqeF...@individual.net>,
>>> chatt...@doctorwhowebguide.net says...
>>>> <sigh> Why doesn't anyone write stand-alone fantasy novels?
>>> _Wizard of Pigeons_ was stand-alone, wasn't it?
>> Just to name a few recent, excellent, books:
Neil Gaiman's books are stand-alones.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Real charity doesn't care if it's tax-deductible or not. -Dan Bennett
Pumpkin Escobar
"Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Elaine Thompson wrote:
> > On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:41:57 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
> > <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
> >> netcat wrote:
> >>> In article <4outqeF...@individual.net>,
> >>> chatt...@doctorwhowebguide.net says...
> >>>> <sigh> Why doesn't anyone write stand-alone fantasy novels?
> >>> _Wizard of Pigeons_ was stand-alone, wasn't it?
> >> Just to name a few recent, excellent, books:
> >> ...
>
> Neil Gaiman's books are stand-alones.
Neil was just on the Cranky Geeks podcast last week. Check it out at
www.crankygeeks.com
For recommendations, I always suggest trying an anthology when wanting
to try new authors. You get many choices and you never know what you
may come across as long as your tastes run similarly to the Editor's.
Check out David Hartwell's annual Year's Best Fantasy series.
PE
Doug Weller
Lebovitz wrote:
>In article <MPG.1f9485d36...@news.octanews.com>,
>netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
>>In article <4outqeF...@individual.net>,
>>chatt...@doctorwhowebguide.net says...
>>> "Snakes and Babies" <ma...@mattduanegriffin.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1160142143.2...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>> > Personally, I'm flabbergasted that this thread could get this long
>>> > without anyone recommending Robin Hobb.
>>>
>>>
>>> <sigh> Why doesn't anyone write stand-alone fantasy novels?
>>
>>_Wizard of Pigeons_ was stand-alone, wasn't it?
>
>Yes, but it came out in 1986.
And now reprinted.
Doug
--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/