Brust: Various Topics
ShadowMist
Ok, this post will cover some of the replies to my post
about how I thought Vlad's going to get his butt out
of the Morganti Frying Pan (ducks various rotten vegetables
thrown in my direction) and some posts of 500 Years After.
Alright folks, and away we go! :-}
Ok, first off to Graydon. Sir, I believe that Sethra Lavode's
words and actions about Spellbreaker ADD to my belief that it
is one of the 17. After all, we are told, the Great Weapons
are basically _VERY POWERFUL_ versions of morganti weapons.
Vlad, nor anyone else in the books that I remember, has named
their morganti daggers but Sethra Lavode tells Vlad that *HE*
should name the chain he took. This in itself is suspicious as
I _SINCERELY_ doubt that Sethra Lavode would tell someone to
name a magical item.
To Mark Alan Lang. While it is true that all the Great Weapons
that we have seen so far are blades it is possible that
Spellbreaker was MEANT to be without a blade. Perhaps it was
designed to simply negate magic so that the wielder could show
how good he or she was with weapons. To any who think this is
foolish just remember this: a) these are the kinds of people who
name their Castle's after the color of Sorcery just so people
will insult them and therefore give them an excuse to duel; and
b) these are the people who are willing to risk their souls
being eaten to prevent a war that would have occurred only because
of a man's pride and honor. Admittedly in both example's I'm
talking about the House of the Dragon, but still...
To the individual who pointed out that if Spellbreaker IS one of
the 17 that, theoretically, Vlad should be able to survive a
Morganti weapon like Aliera did. I thank you for saying this,
as I hadn't thought of it.
To the individual who asked about the problems Vlad would have
on the Paths of the Dead I have three possible solutions. First,
as you said, Vlad won't be able to leave and therefore becomes a
martyr to the newly formed house of Easterners. Second, he calls
in the debt Verra owes him and with her help is able to leave the
Paths. Third, (and I think most likely) Vlad will leave the Paths
of the Dead the same way Sethra Lavode did, as an undead. Of
course this means he won't be able to be head of the house of
Easterners but hey, its a living! (I know, even groaned when
writing this).
To Graydon, once more. I'm putting my vote for `Father of Devera'
on Mario. It's possible he's an ex-Dragon (maybe Kragar?) and
anyway I don't think Kieron's going to come out of the Paths
(unless its to take back his sword and kick Aliera's butt around
for a few hours but ever then it'll be only till he gets his sword
back and then he'll go back to the Paths).
I would also like to thank the individual who pointed out that
of Brust's books about Vlad the only one hasn't been named after
a CURRENT House is called `Taltos'. Thank you for strengthenning
my idea about Vlad.
Finally to Tim Iverson. Sure Vlad's friends tend to get involved
because it effects them too. But I would consider the possible
collapse of the Cycle (and therefore the Empire) would effect
them, even if it won't occur for a few Dragarean's lifetimes.
Comments, Replies and Flames are welcome.
Adieu,
ShadowMist.
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Evan Middleton
First, on the Spellbreaker question, I do not know what Spellbreaker is, but I
do not believe that it is Morganti. Vlad has an obvious reluctance to carrying
morganti weapons, and has mentioned the feeling that he gets when one is in
his presence. I cannot believe that he would not mention that Spellbreaker has
this aura, or that, if it did, he would carry it with him, no matter how handy
it turned out to be.
On the Kragar as Mario question. It would be fitting, but again, I do not think
so. In _500 Years After_, Mario is portrayed as a rather cocky, naive young
Dragaerian (Witness his willingness to go after the Emperor). In Phoenix, when
Kragar is told that Vlad's territory is now his, is very upset at first, and
then changes his mind when money is mentioned. Either Mario has changed quite
a bit (which, I admit, is possible), or they are two different characters...
And, as a parting question, has anyone else noticed that, at some point,
Pathfinder has changed sizes? In _Jhereg_, on page 141-142 it is described as
"a short weapon, compared to most swords that Dragaerians use. It was both
shorter and heavier than the rapiers I liked to use, but in Aliera's hands, it
was light and capable." In _Taltos_, on the other hand, it is descibed thusly,
"Then Kieron unstrapped swordbelt and sword and scabbard, and passed the whole
thing over to Aliera. It was quite a bit taller than she was; I wondered how
she'd even be able to carry it."
Nathan Bardsley
Evan Middleton <midd...@MCS.COM> wrote:
>
>And, as a parting question, has anyone else noticed that, at some point,
>Pathfinder has changed sizes? In _Jhereg_, on page 141-142 it is described as
>"a short weapon, compared to most swords that Dragaerians use. It was both
>shorter and heavier than the rapiers I liked to use, but in Aliera's hands, it
>was light and capable." In _Taltos_, on the other hand, it is descibed thusly,
>"Then Kieron unstrapped swordbelt and sword and scabbard, and passed the whole
>thing over to Aliera. It was quite a bit taller than she was; I wondered how
>she'd even be able to carry it."
>
That's because Kieron's sword isn't Pathfinder. Aliera found/acquired/won
Pathfinder sometime just before =Yendi=, I think.
--
Nathan Bardsley -- nat...@health.org
Sean Eric Fagan
>And, as a parting question, has anyone else noticed that, at some point,
>In _Taltos_, "It was quite a bit taller than she was."
(Okay, that was edited a bit to make it shorter.)
Uh, maybe because the sword that Kieron carried wasn't Pathfinder? It
was just Kieron's sword, not a Great Weapon.
Pathfinder she got elsewhere, and she gave Kieron's sword to Sethra the
Younger (I think).
Jonathan Yen
ShadowMist <an7...@anon.penet.fi> wrote:
> Ok, first off to Graydon. Sir, I believe that Sethra Lavode's
> words and actions about Spellbreaker ADD to my belief that it
> is one of the 17. After all, we are told, the Great Weapons
> are basically _VERY POWERFUL_ versions of morganti weapons.
> Vlad, nor anyone else in the books that I remember, has named
> their morganti daggers but Sethra Lavode tells Vlad that *HE*
> should name the chain he took. This in itself is suspicious as
> I _SINCERELY_ doubt that Sethra Lavode would tell someone to
> name a magical item.
Didn't Vlad say in one of the books that the 17 Great Weapons were also
Morganti? i think he mentioned that the user could actually decide whether
the soul was destroyed or not. But the fact is, if the Great Weapons are
Morganti, then people should be able to feel the taint from Spellbreaker.
Since people do not, then Spellbreaker is not a Great WEapon
>
> To Mark Alan Lang. While it is true that all the Great Weapons
> that we have seen so far are blades it is possible that
> Spellbreaker was MEANT to be without a blade. Perhaps it was
> designed to simply negate magic so that the wielder could show
> how good he or she was with weapons. To any who think this is
Then, Spellbreaker is afor defence rather than offence. And since weapons
are used for offence...let's just call Spellbreaker one of the 17 Great
Armours.
>
> To the individual who asked about the problems Vlad would have
> on the Paths of the Dead I have three possible solutions. First,
> as you said, Vlad won't be able to leave and therefore becomes a
> martyr to the newly formed house of Easterners. Second, he calls
> in the debt Verra owes him and with her help is able to leave the
> Paths. Third, (and I think most likely) Vlad will leave the Paths
> of the Dead the same way Sethra Lavode did, as an undead. Of
> course this means he won't be able to be head of the house of
> Easterners but hey, its a living! (I know, even groaned when
> writing this).
why would he have to go on the Paths of the Dead again??? is there
something i'm missing?? I think that if it went out that a person came out
of the Paths of the Dead twice...i think that person is already famous,
never mind a martyr. If you want someone to go into the Paths of the Dead
to get something, tell Aliera or Morrolan to do it...they both have the
blood of Verra in them.
>
> To Graydon, once more. I'm putting my vote for `Father of Devera'
> on Mario. It's possible he's an ex-Dragon (maybe Kragar?) and
> anyway I don't think Kieron's going to come out of the Paths
> (unless its to take back his sword and kick Aliera's butt around
> for a few hours but ever then it'll be only till he gets his sword
> back and then he'll go back to the Paths).
I personally think it is Krager that is the father of Devera. Why? Well,
he used to be a full Dragon, and it is possible for him to be reinstated. I
mean, there is now a precedence with the case of Cawti's friend. (i forgot
her name, okay??) Also, we have never been told just why Krager was kicked
out.
> Finally to Tim Iverson. Sure Vlad's friends tend to get involved
> because it effects them too. But I would consider the possible
> collapse of the Cycle (and therefore the Empire) would effect
> them, even if it won't occur for a few Dragarean's lifetimes.
i have two thoughts on this Phoenix House. and i'm not sure if it is just
me or if there is something wrong in the books. In _Taltos_, Morrolan tells
Aliera that Zerika is the last Phoenix, thus meaning that there is no male
Phoenix for her to marry. If this is so, then there is no new Phoenix to
become the heir. however, in _Jhereg_ or _Yendi_ (i forget), Vlad asks
Aliera how many Phoenixes there were in the Phoenix Guards, and she says
that there were not that many and that Dragons make up the majority of the
Guards. Finally, Vlad states somewhere that a baby is considered part of
the House of Phoenix if a phoenix lflies over the house of the baby.
now, my question is...are all the statements right? i might have
misinterpreted one of them. but if they are true, then just makes one a
Phoenix gthese days???
Jonathan
Dash Wendrzyk
|> A few thoughts, but no solutions...
|>
|> And, as a parting question, has anyone else noticed that, at some point,
|> Pathfinder has changed sizes? In _Jhereg_, on page 141-142 it is described as
|> "a short weapon, compared to most swords that Dragaerians use. It was both
|> shorter and heavier than the rapiers I liked to use, but in Aliera's hands, it
|> was light and capable." In _Taltos_, on the other hand, it is descibed thusly,
|> "Then Kieron unstrapped swordbelt and sword and scabbard, and passed the whole
|> thing over to Aliera. It was quite a bit taller than she was; I wondered how
|> she'd even be able to carry it."
|>
That's because they are two different swords. In Teckla, they is an offhand
comment that Aliera gave Kieron's sword (the big one) to Sethra the Younger
and got one more her size (PathFinder).
Since the actually chronological order of the Vlad series
(as far as I can remember) would go:
Taltos
(Aliera comes back, get Kieron's sword)
Yendi
(Sethra the younger gets in trouble,
no reference to Kieron's sword that I can remember)
(Aliera has Pathfinder? I can't remember.)
Jhereg
(Aliera has Pathfinder)
Teckla
(reference to the sword switch)
Phoenix
Athyra
Orca
(Vlad finally gets a great weapon
and its a morganti lepid (sp?) to beat
up Orcas :-)
This is a pretty good faq topic. Hey, Erica, wanna be the
Brust FAQ Queen?
dash
Hans Rancke-Madsen
>I personally think it is Krager that is the father of Devera. Why? Well,
>he used to be a full Dragon, and it is possible for him to be reinstated. I
>mean, there is now a precedence with the case of Cawti's friend. (i forgot
>her name, okay??) Also, we have never been told just why Krager was kicked
>out.
Haven't we? I can't check my books right now, but I seem to remember that
Kragar once said that he couldn't cut it as a Dragon because people kept
forgetting that he was there and didn't pay attention to him - a bad
trait in a commander.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
ran...@diku.dk
------------
"No matter how subtle a wizard, a knife between the shoulderblades will
seriously cramp his style."
- Assassin
"Ahem. That's my simulacrum you've just knifed in the back, Sonny."
- Subtle wizard
David Goldfarb
)I seem to remember that
)Kragar once said that he couldn't cut it as a Dragon because people kept
)forgetting that he was there and didn't pay attention to him - a bad
)trait in a commander.
I haven't checked the books, but I'm pretty sure that that's
just Vlad speculating -- Kragar consistently refuses to talk about
why he was kicked out of the Dragon House.
On another topic in this thread: in _Yendi_, Aliera has a line,
"I'm going to find this Jhereg, and I'm going to show him Kieron's Sword."
We can conclude that she traded it for Pathfinder sometime in between
_Yendi_ and _Jhereg_. (This is consistent with statements in _Jhereg_
that she had obtained Pathfinder only recently.)
I haven't found an exact reference, but I got the impression from
somewhere that the trade took place at the Battle of Baritt's Tomb, which
would help date that, too, if I'm right.
David Goldfarb |"Come on, characters with super-strength don't
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | *do* inertia! Or leverage."
gold...@UCBOCF.BITNET |
gold...@soda.berkeley.edu | -- Dani Zweig
Josh Kaderlan
Hans Rancke-Madsen <ran...@diku.dk> wrote:
>jtc...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jonathan Yen) writes:
>
>
>Haven't we? I can't check my books right now, but I seem to remember that
>Kragar once said that he couldn't cut it as a Dragon because people kept
>forgetting that he was there and didn't pay attention to him - a bad
>trait in a commander.
>
reason you just did. But then Vlad states that Kragar was joking, that
he would never talk about the real reason he was kicked out of the
Dragon. I believe the exchange took place in *Yendi*.
Josh
Evan Middleton
is the one I have read the least closely (it being my least favorite), I hadn't
noticed the switch. It's been a while since I read that one. I just finished
rereading all of them, except _Teckla_, and I suppose that I should go back and
reread that one, too...
Evan
Daniel Blum
got Pathfinder at the Battle of Baritt's Tomb.
Spellbreaker is certainly different from the (other?) Great Weapons
in that it isn't made out of metal - unless Gold Phoenix Stone
qualifies as metal.
As I recall, Brust is planning to publish 19 Vlad books - one for each
house, plus _Taltos_ (first chronologically) and _The Final Contract_
(last chronologically). The source on this was good, although I can't
now remember what it was :).
--
_______________________________________________________________________
Dan Blum to...@genesis.mcs.com
"I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't just made it up."
_______________________________________________________________________
David Goldfarb
)It's explicitly mentioned in one of the books (Teckla?) that Aliera
)got Pathfinder at the Battle of Baritt's Tomb.
Here's a speculation: Aliera gave away Kieron's Sword deliberately
in order to draw Kieron out of the Paths of the Dead into the battle.
There's absolutely no textual support for this, it's just an idea I had.
David Goldfarb |
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |"It doesn't matter. Don't you see? Nothing matters!"
gold...@UCBOCF.BITNET | -- Fredric Brown, "Come and Go Mad"
gold...@soda.berkeley.edu |
Graydon
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) writes:
> Here's a speculation: Aliera gave away Kieron's Sword deliberately
>in order to draw Kieron out of the Paths of the Dead into the battle.
>There's absolutely no textual support for this, it's just an idea I had.
on her part about using it as it was intended, he charges her to
keep it in her possession or return it to the Paths, lest he come
and get it. Aliera replies 'maybe that's what I want'.
It'd have to be a rather metaphorical use of 'battle'; Aliera
wants Kieron re-incarnate, it seems. This is one the reasons
for my increasing suspicions that there is something important
about Vlad, Aliera, and Kieron all being incarnate at once.
Vlad's rebirth as an Easterner is an interesting comment on the
degree of his previous incarnation's exhile, come to think of it.
I would like to know a _lot_ more about Barritt's Tomb, where he
was buried, and why there was a battle. Did Barrit own Pathfinder?
If not, what was it doing at the battle? Whyever was *Vlad* there?
And so on, and so forth.
Graydon
Nils Weinander,7430,000446
>house, plus _Taltos_ (first chronologically) and _The Final Contract_
>(last chronologically)
This reminds me of something I have often mused over: what are the Dragaeran
animals really?
The following are quite straightforward:
Dragon
Hawk
Phoenix
Orca
These are explained:
Teckla (rodent)
Jhereg (small flying reptile)
Athyra (bird)
Dzur (large feline)
Tiassa (midsize feline)
Yendi (snake)
Chreotha (spider ?)
But what are these?
Lyorn
Tsalmoth
Issola (I have a vague memory that this might be a bird)
Vallista
Aaargh, I can't remember the last two. Anyway, any suggestions what the beasties
I can't place are (and the two missing ones)?
/Nils W
Pam Korda
>This reminds me of something I have often mused over: what are the Dragaeran
>animals really?
[House name animals munched]
I dunno any of those, but:
kethna == pig
and one more unknown: what is a norska?
==============================================================================
Pam Korda |"Nobody ever accused the Invid of
ko...@ellis.uchicago.edu | being logical, only thorough."
| --Robotech
==============================================================================
The University of Chicago regards me as a Tuition-paying Unit, and would
Max Rible
>This reminds me of something I have often mused over: what are the Dragaeran
>animals really?
Well, let's look at the Cycle:
Phoenix sinks into decay - we never see a Phoenix, so we don't know
if it's the burning-bird style or simply the
rebirth-from-fire sort. We've seen very
few members of the House of the Phoenix, so
it's hard to assign a particular character to
them.
Haughty dragon yearns to slay. - fairly standard, not apparently fire
breathing, and they have neck tentacles that
stiffen when angry. Members of the House
are into military battle, rather than personal.
Lyorn growls and lowers horn - descriptions suggest they have only one.
Perhaps a rhinoceros or unicorn? Aren't House
Lyorn the record keepers?
Tiassa dreams and plots are born. - Nils suggests a midsize feline;
I can't recall one.
Hawk looks down from lofty flight - Fairly standard. The House have
sharp features, but I can't recall any
stereotypes.
Dzur stalks and blends with night. - Big cat. Members of the House are
into one-on-one combat, rather than pitched
battle, and are very bad-tempered.
Issola strikes from courtly bow - Nils mentions a vague memory that
it might be a bird. Members of House Issola
are very graceful.
Tsalmoth maintains though none knows how. - Only thing I can recall
is the use of tsalmoth butter in cooking.
Vallista rends and then rebuilds - ???
Jhereg feeds on other's kills. - Small, smart carrion-eating winged lizard
Quiet iorich won't forget - ???
Sly chreotha weaves his net. - I get the impression they're much
bigger than the average spider--- their nets
are big enough for a dragon to wander into
(though this tends to distress the chreotha)
Yendi coils and strikes, unseen - Looks snakelike. "The bite of the
Yendi can never be fully healed." is a proverb,
so they're probably poisonous, too. The House
is known for their scheming and plots.
Orca circles, hard and lean. - Our friend the killer whale. The House
tends toward sailors.
Frightened teckla hides in grass - Seem like small rodents. The House
is basicaly peasantry.
Jhegaala shifts as moments pass. - I recall some reference to
jhegaala eggs somewhere...
Athyra rules minds' interplay - The bird Vlad met in the paths of the dead
was large and brown, as I recall. They may
be telepathic in the living world, as well.
House Athyra tends toward sorcerers.
Phoenix rise from ashes, gray. - Interesting, given that the decadent-phoenix-
followed-by-Phoenix-Reborn is supposed to occur
only one time in 17 Cycles (or is my memory
fading?).
Someone else mentioned that kethna were some sort of goats. Other things
we've seen include cat-centaurs. (Does anyone know what Serioli look
like?)
Has anyone put together a Dragaeran Bestiary, or are we doing that right
now?
--
/-----------------------v-----------------------------------------\
| Max Rible | "Not quite as impressive a volcano god |
| mo...@netcom.com | as we were led to expect!" - Sam & Max |
\-----------------------^-----------------------------------------/
Sean Eric Fagan
>ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander,7430,000446) writes:
>>This reminds me of something I have often mused over: what are the Dragaeran
>>animals really?
>Well, let's look at the Cycle:
>Phoenix sinks into decay - we never see a Phoenix, so we don't know
>if it's the burning-bird style or simply the rebirth-from-fire sort.
"Phoenix rises from ashes, gray." Also, we have a picture of a Phoenix on
the covers of the Khaavren romances. They don't exactly match what I would
picture as a phoenix (they have a serpentine tail), but I think we can
take it as such.
>Haughty dragon yearns to slay. - fairly standard, not apparently fire
>breathing, and they have neck tentacles that stiffen when angry.
Not tentacles... feelers. The dragons are Chinese-style dragons. They
can be fought off by a couple of people, I'd say (given that one [rather
exceptional] person fought one off in _Brokedown Palace_, if I remember
correctly.)
>Members of the House are into military battle, rather than personal.
And are rather hung up about honor. Also, the House of Dragon appears to
be *the* great House, probably because of all the battles. By that, I
mean well-managed and wealthy.
>Lyorn growls and lowers horn - descriptions suggest they have only one.
>Perhaps a rhinoceros or unicorn? Aren't House Lyorn the record keepers?
Yes, the Lyorns are the record keepers. I would think of something like a
rhinoceros for a lyorn, only reptilian (most of the animals seem to be
that). Not a unicorn, at least not how we think of them. Something like
a tricerotops :)?
>Tiassa dreams and plots are born. - Nils suggests a midsize feline;
>I can't recall one.
Khaavren is a Tiassa, no? They seem to be fairly intelligent, graceful,
and fierce. So a small or midsized feline seems to match that.
>Hawk looks down from lofty flight - Fairly standard. The House have
>sharp features, but I can't recall any stereotypes.
No. Although we do know that Daymar is one, and is a powerful sorceror.
>Dzur stalks and blends with night. - Big cat. Members of the House are
>into one-on-one combat, rather than pitched battle, and are very bad-tempered.
A dzur sounds like a tiger. Or a black leopard. Also, the Dzur are noted
for their bravery (to the point of stupidity) -- a Dzur hero only wants to
fight if the odds are against him!
>Issola strikes from courtly bow - Nils mentions a vague memory that
>it might be a bird. Members of House Issola are very graceful.
A crane (tall and white) is what I think of for an issola. Members of
the House of Issola are graceful, and likely to fit in court quite well.
>Tsalmoth maintains though none knows how. - Only thing I can recall
>is the use of tsalmoth butter in cooking.
The part about maintaining although none know how makes me think that
tsalmoth would be large, clumsy beasts. I don't think we've met a Tsalmoth,
though.
>Jhereg feeds on other's kills. - Small, smart carrion-eating winged lizard
And a House that does the same. Also, jhereg are quite poisonous apparantly.
Again, a trait the House seems to want to share.
>Quiet iorich won't forget - ???
An owl? Have we met an Iorich? I can't remember...
>Frightened teckla hides in grass - Seem like small rodents. The House
>is basicaly peasantry.
Mice. Definitely mice.
>Jhegaala shifts as moments pass. - I recall some reference to
>jhegaala eggs somewhere...
Cawti made some for Vlad in _Jhereg_.
>Athyra rules minds' interplay - The bird Vlad met in the paths of the dead
>was large and brown, as I recall. They may be telepathic in the
>living world, as well. House Athyra tends toward sorcerers.
Yes. An athyra hunts by telepathically confusing its prey (making it think
safety lies where the athyra is, or something like that). There is a
reference to them in _Brokedown Palace_.
>Phoenix rise from ashes, gray. - Interesting, given that the decadent-phoenix-
>followed-by-Phoenix-Reborn is supposed to occur only one time in
>17 Cycles (or is my memory fading?).
No. Aliera believes that that's what it means to have a Phoenix Empress
following a decadent Phoenix Emperor. So... the first Emperor (Zerika I,
if you remember) and the latest Phoenix Empress (Zerika II, right?) are
the only ones to not become decadant.
>Someone else mentioned that kethna were some sort of goats. Other things
>we've seen include cat-centaurs.
We see norski in _Brokedown Palace_, and I want to think of rabbits. I'm
not sure that's right, though. Kethna I'd say are probably closer to
antelope, but that's just a hunch.
>(Does anyone know what Serioli look like?)
Other than Brust (and the nobks who know him and get to read his books
before they're published, and then boast about it on the net? :))? Probably
not. We've never seen a Serioli, and only had one mentioned indirectly,
in _The Phoenix Guards_.
>Has anyone put together a Dragaeran Bestiary, or are we doing that right
>now?
We seem to be doing that, yes :).
Pam Korda
>We see norski in _Brokedown Palace_, and I want to think of rabbits. I'm
>not sure that's right, though.
I seem to recall that the norska can be rather nasty--they like to
bite. also, they are carnivorous. so no, I don't think that
norska==rabbit.
> Kethna I'd say are probably closer to
>antelope, but that's just a hunch.
Kethna==pig (Somebody has barbequed kethna ribs in one of the Vlad
books, and in _Athyra_, there is a reference to the infamous "pig with
a wooden leg joke," with "pig" replaced by "kethna.")
Mark Alan Lang
Topics by Sean Eric Fagan@kithrup.
> >sharp features, but I can't recall any stereotypes.
>
> No. Although we do know that Daymar is one, and is a powerful sorceror.
Quoted from memory:
A Hawk Lord will spot a rotten onion every time, and will nod sagely
when you bite into it then spit it out. When you ask why he didn't tell
you, he'll say "You didn't ask."
I know the words are wrong, but the gist is about right, I think.
----------------------------------
| Mark Lang | elis...@cmu.edu |
----------------------------------
Nils Weinander,7430,000446
mo...@netcom.com (Max Rible):
>Tiassa dreams and plots are born. - Nils suggests a midsize feline;
> I can't recall one.
In 'The Phoenix Guards' there are references to what a Tiassa looks like
since Khaavren is of that house. I get the impression that it is somewhat
like a lynx.
>Issola strikes from courtly bow - Nils mentions a vague memory that
> it might be a bird. Members of House Issola
> are very graceful.
On the other hand it might be Iorich I'm thinking of. Right now the phrase
'an Iorich's feather' seems vaguely familiar.
>Tsalmoth maintains though none knows how. - Only thing I can recall
> is the use of tsalmoth butter in cooking.
People of the house of the Tsalmoth are said to have rounded faces.
/Nils W
David Goldfarb
)So... the first Emperor (Zerika I,
)if you remember) and the latest Phoenix Empress (Zerika II, right?) are
)the only ones to not become decadent.
Right, and Tortaalik I was decadent from the very start. Most likely,
the other sixteen Phoenix Emperors combined the two verses ("Phoenix rise
from ashes, gray/Phoenix sinks into decay" -- note the order) in themselves.
They started out idealistic and virtuous, and gradually became decadent
until either a military coup was needed to restore order to the mismanaged
Empire or some foe, noting weakness, started a major war -- in either case,
bringing about the Dragon Reign and the definite start of a new cycle.
David Goldfarb |"That's what the dragon *wants* you to think!
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | He doesn't want you to know he exists!"
gold...@UCBOCF.BITNET | "Actually, I just want her to think you're nuts."
gold...@soda.berkeley.edu |"Oh, shut up." -- _Bone_ #3
Dennis Hohn-Chong Cho
adventure/ book-style FRPG that took place in the Dragaeran realm. Maybe
it was something like Pathways to Adventure, or something.
The basic plot was that people were trying to steal the orb, and
you were a Dzur hero who was trying to stop the villains.
The important thing about this book was that it had a listing and
description of all 17 houses and the animals they were named after. Can
anyone give any more info?
I'll try to find it, but I fear it has been lost for some time...
Hope this helps,
Hohn Cho
Stewart M. Wiener
: In article <mongoCo...@netcom.com> mo...@netcom.com (Max Rible) writes:
: Have we met an Iorich? I can't remember...
Toward the beginning of 500 YEARS AFTER, when the emperor is learning why the
various houses are stinting on their tax contributions, the Iorich are
described in such a way that I picture them as the Empire's class of lawyers.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stewart Wiener 1L, Temple Law School, evening
s...@astro.ocis.temple.edu gainfully employed, daytime
David Eppstein
< Tiassa dreams and plots are born. - Nils suggests a midsize feline;
< I can't recall one.
In article <CoFo5...@kithrup.com>, Sean Eric Fagan <s...@kithrup.com> wrote:
< Khaavren is a Tiassa, no? They seem to be fairly intelligent, graceful,
< and fierce. So a small or midsized feline seems to match that.
Tiassa have wings, and are not particularly small. In _Taltos_, the
cat-centaurs are described as resembling Tiassa but without the wings.
--
David Eppstein UC Irvine, Info & Computer Science epps...@ics.uci.edu
Kenneth A McIsaac
>From: jtc...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jonathan Yen)
>Subject: Re: Brust: Various Topics
>Date: 14 Apr 1994 18:05:46 GMT
>I personally think it is Krager that is the father of Devera. Why? Well,
>he used to be a full Dragon, and it is possible for him to be reinstated. I
>mean, there is now a precedence with the case of Cawti's friend. (i forgot
>her name, okay??) Also, we have never been told just why Krager was kicked
>out.
Didn't Kragar say at the end of _Phoenix_ that he got the boot because no
one ever noticed him? ie: He'd give an order, but no one would hear
it, and battles would be lost...In other words, he was just plumb
useless as a Dragonlord.
>i have two thoughts on this Phoenix House. and i'm not sure if it is just
>me or if there is something wrong in the books. In _Taltos_, Morrolan tells
>Aliera that Zerika is the last Phoenix, thus meaning that there is no male
>Phoenix for her to marry. If this is so, then there is no new Phoenix to
>become the heir. however, in _Jhereg_ or _Yendi_ (i forget), Vlad asks
>Aliera how many Phoenixes there were in the Phoenix Guards, and she says
>that there were not that many and that Dragons make up the majority of the
>Guards. Finally, Vlad states somewhere that a baby is considered part of
>the House of Phoenix if a phoenix lflies over the house of the baby.
>now, my question is...are all the statements right? i might have
>misinterpreted one of them. but if they are true, then just makes one a
>Phoenix gthese days???
In _Taltos_ Morrolan tells Aliera that Zerika is the last Phoenix, and when
Aliera asks him if there can be another Phoenix he says "Ask me again in
about a hundred thousand years, when it starts to matter" (of course 100 000
years is kind of long for one cycle, given the 17-cubed year limit on each
reign, but so what?). In _Yendi_, Aliera says that Phoenixes are the rarest
Phoenix Guards, but I got the impression that she was speaking
hypothetically, not commenting on the current state of the Guard. And yes,
in _Jhereg_ Vlad says that "they won't consider you a Phoenix unless an
actual Phoenix was seen to fly over the house where you're born". I read
this not as "Any baby born in a house with a Phoenix flying over it is a
Phoenix", but as "A baby born to two Phoenix parents is not a Phoenix unless
a Phoenix flies over head when he/she is born". So I guess all three of
those statements could be true. However, Vlad also states in Jhereg that
it is possible (through) crossbreeding to create some more Phoenixes. And
don't forget about Illista and her brother (something-Star, wasn't it?)
maybe they can be forgiven their crimes and return from exile to begin
repopulating the House.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
And further more I am of the opinion that Carthage must be destroyed!
-Marcus Cato
Kenneth A McIsaac
>From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander,7430,000446)
>Subject: Re: Brust: Various Topics
>>As I recall, Brust is planning to publish 19 Vlad books - one for each
>>house, plus _Taltos_ (first chronologically) and _The Final Contract_
>>(last chronologically)
You mean we have to wait _that_ long to get to the bottom of this?
>This reminds me of something I have often mused over: what are the Dragaeran
>animals really?
>The following are quite straightforward:
>Dragon
>Hawk
>Phoenix
>Orca
>These are explained:
>Teckla (rodent)
>Jhereg (small flying reptile)
>Athyra (bird)
>Dzur (large feline)
>Tiassa (midsize feline)
With wings, I think. Was this not mentioned once?
>Yendi (snake)
>Chreotha (spider ?)
I think so.
>But what are these?
>Lyorn
Well, since it "growls and lowers horn" according to the poem, I've always
thought it was either a rhino or some kind of bull-looking thing.
>Tsalmoth
...maintains though none know how.
I have absolutely no idea.
>Issola (I have a vague memory that this might be a bird)
... strikes from courtly bow
Based on this evidence, I think the Issola are also snakes, rather like a
cobra maybe?
>Vallista
They build stuff right? Maybe they're some kind of mutant bee :).
>Aaargh, I can't remember the last two. Anyway, any suggestions what the beasties
>I can't place are (and the two missing ones)?
Jheeghala (yeah right, does anyone besides Mr. Brust himself know how to
spell this one?)
No idea what a Jheeghala is. The poem line is:
Jheeghala (or Tagitchatn or Tagichain or something :)) shift as moments pass
Does this help anyone else hazard a guess?
Iorich
Hmmm, "Quiet Iorich won't forget". Maybe they're elephants?
You also forgot some animals that do not figure in the cycle, but which are
mentioned:
Norska (Sethra likes to turn people into them.) I get the impression they're
small.
Wineocerous (another fun spelling.) This is an animal you can get
roasted at Valabar's. The name suggests it is a rhino but...would you want
to eat a rhino?
Kethna Are they cows or deer?
Have fun!
>/Nils W
Fred A Haskell
>and one more unknown: what is a norska?
A dragon-eating bunny-rabbit. Geesh. Don't you guys know =anything=? <g>
--
Fred A. Levy Haskell | "My will is strong but my won't is weak."
fa...@maroon.tc.umn.edu | -- Cole Porter
David DeLaney
>That's because they are two different swords. In Teckla, they is an offhand
>comment that Aliera gave Kieron's sword (the big one) to Sethra the Younger
>and got one more her size (PathFinder).
>
>Since the actually chronological order of the Vlad series
>(as far as I can remember) would go:
>
> Taltos
> (Aliera comes back, get Kieron's sword)
>
> Yendi
> (Sethra the younger gets in trouble,
> no reference to Kieron's sword that I can remember)
> (Aliera has Pathfinder? I can't remember.)
Aliera *definitely* has Pathfinder. Think about the plot (this being Yendi,
you *know* there's a Plot): what was the (complicated) trick they were using
to get X out of Y? What did it involve X doing to Aliera, and how did she
survive it?
> Jhereg
> (Aliera has Pathfinder)
>
>This is a pretty good faq topic. Hey, Erica, wanna be the
>Brust FAQ Queen?
So, contrary to someone else's post, Aliera *must* have Pathfinder before
Yendi starts off.
Dave "how many Yendi does it take to sharpen a sword?" DeLaney
--
David DeLaney: d...@utkux.utcc.utk.edu; WARNING: DO NOT PUT BEANS IN YOUR EARS!
Disclaimer: UTK agree with me? Yeah, right...; Thinking about this disclaimer__
may cause offense, brain seizure, confusion, or particle physics. VRbeableDJK\/
http://enigma.phys.utk.edu/~dbd for net.legends FAQ+miniFAQs or anon-ftp in pub
Josh Kaderlan
Kenneth A McIsaac <KAMC...@ELECTRICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>
>Didn't Kragar say at the end of _Phoenix_ that he got the boot because no
>one ever noticed him? ie: He'd give an order, but no one would hear
>it, and battles would be lost...In other words, he was just plumb
>useless as a Dragonlord.
>
kicked out of the Dragon. He uses it in one of the earlier books
(*Jhereg*, I believe), and Vlad explicitly says that Kragar is lying.
Josh
Lee Derbenwick
[ regarding Dragaeran animals ... ]
> and one more unknown: what is a norska?
From the descriptions in _Brokedown Palace_, they reminded me of
ferrets. (Someone else who posted had thought of rabbits, but
rabbits aren't generally carnivorous except in _Monty Python_. :-)
Lee Derbenwick, l...@cbnewsm.att.com | I'm sure I parked my opinions
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ, USA | somewhere around here.
Eyal Barnea
: >As I recall, Brust is planning to publish 19 Vlad books - one for each
: >house, plus _Taltos_ (first chronologically) and _The Final Contract_
: >(last chronologically)
: This reminds me of something I have often mused over: what are the Dragaeran
: animals really?
[munch]
: But what are these?
: Lyorn
I always got the impressionof something like a unicorn
: Tsalmoth
At MOC, Brust said it was a carnivorous, tree dwelling turtle (yes,
turtle). It climbs trees, and pounces on it's prey. If it misses, it
climbs again, and pounces two or three weeks later...
: Issola (I have a vague memory that this might be a bird)
?
: Vallista
?
: Aaargh, I can't remember the last two. Anyway, any suggestions what the beasties
: I can't place are (and the two missing ones)?
: /Nils W
--
***************************************************************************
* Eyal Barnea * I don't have opinions. The stuff posted above *
* ebarnea@garnet. * is an insidious plot designed by my enemies to... *
* acns.fsu.edu * Disregard the above. He..er.. I didn't mean it *
***************************************************************************
Eyal Barnea
Elephant?
: Sly chreotha weaves his net. - I get the impression they're much
: bigger than the average spider--- their nets
: are big enough for a dragon to wander into
: (though this tends to distress the chreotha)
: Yendi coils and strikes, unseen - Looks snakelike. "The bite
of the
: Yendi can never be fully healed." is a proverb,
: so they're probably poisonous, too. The House
: is known for their scheming and plots.
: Orca circles, hard and lean. - Our friend the killer whale. The House
: tends toward sailors.
: Frightened teckla hides in grass - Seem like small rodents. The House
: is basicaly peasantry.
: Jhegaala shifts as moments pass. - I recall some reference to
: jhegaala eggs somewhere...
: Athyra rules minds' interplay - The bird Vlad met in the paths of the dead
: was large and brown, as I recall. They may
: be telepathic in the living world, as well.
: House Athyra tends toward sorcerers.
: Phoenix rise from ashes, gray. - Interesting, given that the decadent
-phoenix-
: followed-by-Phoenix-Reborn is supposed to occur
: only one time in 17 Cycles (or is my memory
: fading?).
: Someone else mentioned that kethna were some sort of goats. Other things
: we've seen include cat-centaurs. (Does anyone know what Serioli look
: like?)
: Has anyone put together a Dragaeran Bestiary, or are we doing that right
: now?
: --
: /-----------------------v-----------------------------------------\
: | Max Rible | "Not quite as impressive a volcano god |
: | mo...@netcom.com | as we were led to expect!" - Sam & Max |
: \-----------------------^-----------------------------------------/
At MOC, Brust mentioned that he has finally figured out what they all are,
and has commissioned an artist to draw the cycle. Any news, Patrick?
David Seghers
>
>A few thoughts, but no solutions...
>
>First, on the Spellbreaker question, I do not know what Spellbreaker is, but I
>do not believe that it is Morganti. Vlad has an obvious reluctance to carrying
>morganti weapons, and has mentioned the feeling that he gets when one is in
>his presence. I cannot believe that he would not mention that Spellbreaker has
>this aura, or that, if it did, he would carry it with him, no matter how handy
>it turned out to be.
Perhaps, but I seem to remember something about Great Weapons chosing
their carriers. If Spellbreaker has "chosen" him, perhaps it doesn't feel the
same.
>
(stuff Deleted)
>
>And, as a parting question, has anyone else noticed that, at some point,
>Pathfinder has changed sizes? In _Jhereg_, on page 141-142 it is described as
>"a short weapon, compared to most swords that Dragaerians use. It was both
>shorter and heavier than the rapiers I liked to use, but in Aliera's hands, it
>was light and capable." In _Taltos_, on the other hand, it is descibed thusly,
>"Then Kieron unstrapped swordbelt and sword and scabbard, and passed the whole
>thing over to Aliera. It was quite a bit taller than she was; I wondered how
>she'd even be able to carry it."
>
This one bothered me too, but then in one of the later books (I don't have my
set handy. When I get them back I can give a reference.) Vlad describes a
battle in which Aliera gets Pathfinder. I don't recall if there is a mention of
what happens to Kieron's sword, but the implication is that they are different.
Brust tends to mention episodes from books he hasn't written yet, as in how
Vlad loses a finger.
David Seghers
Josh Kaderlan
David DeLaney <d...@martha.utcc.utk.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Yendi
>> (Sethra the younger gets in trouble,
>> no reference to Kieron's sword that I can remember)
>> (Aliera has Pathfinder? I can't remember.)
>
>Aliera *definitely* has Pathfinder. Think about the plot (this being Yendi,
>you *know* there's a Plot): what was the (complicated) trick they were using
>to get X out of Y? What did it involve X doing to Aliera, and how did she
>survive it?
>
Spoilers for *Jhereg*...
I think you have *Yendi* mixed up with *Jhereg*. In *Jhereg*, they have
to get Mellar out of Castle Black, and they do that by tricking him into
attacking Aliera with a Morganti dagger. But her soul's safe, because
Pathfinder is bound to it. But I don't remember Vlad using the same
trick in *Yendi* (although I should go back and read it again).
>
>So, contrary to someone else's post, Aliera *must* have Pathfinder before
>Yendi starts off.
>
Maybe, maybe not. Someone's gotta go check *Yendi*.
>Dave "How many Yendi does it take to sharpen a sword?" DeLaney
Josh "Lunch." Kaderlan :)
Taki Kogoma
rec.arts.sf.written:
>Crossroads Adventures, _Dzurlord_. Don't think I've read it yet. There
>were eight Crossroads Adventures I know of and they're not that hard to
>read all-threads-at-once if you have a piece of paper handy.
>
>For future reference:
>Deryni Challenge
>Dzurlord
>Encyclopedia of Xanth
>Fate's Trick (Heinlein, Glory Road)
>Ghost of a Chance (Xanth)
>Revolt on Majipoor
>Seven No-Trump (Amber)
>A Warlock's Blade (Gramarye)
Two more, Dave:
_Dragonharper_ (Pern)
_Dragonfire_ (Ditto)
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk | "I'll get a life when someone
(Known to some as Taki Kogoma) | demonstrates that it would be
kog...@unm.edu | superior to what I have now."
Veteran of the '91 sf-lovers re-org. | -- Gym Quirk
Sean Eric Fagan
>Tiassa have wings, and are not particularly small. In _Taltos_, the
>cat-centaurs are described as resembling Tiassa but without the wings.
Griffins, then?
Sean Eric Fagan
>This is just Kragar's stock answer whenever Vlad asks him why he was
>kicked out of the Dragon. He uses it in one of the earlier books
>(*Jhereg*, I believe), and Vlad explicitly says that Kragar is lying.
No. Kragar says that nobody would listen to him give orders, so he told them
all to jump off of Deathsgate Falls. Vlad then comments that that *last*
is a lie -- because he knows Kragar was drummed out.
So does Aliera, incidently.
Graydon
jek...@cac.psu.edu (Josh Kaderlan) writes:
>>So, contrary to someone else's post, Aliera *must* have Pathfinder before
>>Yendi starts off.
>Maybe, maybe not. Someone's gotta go check *Yendi*.
>>Dave "How many Yendi does it take to sharpen a sword?" DeLaney
>Josh "Lunch." Kaderlan :)
:Yendi: happens quite some time before :Jhereg:, possibly more than
a year.
Further, in the final fight scene with the Sorceress in Chartruse,
Aliera is explictly described as decapitating the last guard with
Kieron's Greatsword ('swept the head from the last of her defenders'
is, I believe, the phrase.)
So no, she didn't have it during :Yendi:.
Graydon
Josh Kaderlan
Fred A Haskell
>"Phoenix rises from ashes, gray." Also, we have a picture of a Phoenix on
>the covers of the Khaavren romances. They don't exactly match what I would
>picture as a phoenix (they have a serpentine tail), but I think we can
>take it as such.
Remember that cover art isn't necessarily literal, and that a cover artist's
vision is not necessarily the same as the author's, especially with regard to
details.
The job of a cover artist is to capture the essense of the book in such a way
that the cover will appeal to a person who is likely to enjoy reading the
book. If I'm not mistaken, Steve is at least pleased, and in some cases
ecstatic, with how well the cover artists have achieved this for all but
one of his books.
Evan Middleton
know his feelings about Morganti weapons, would let him walk around with one,
without letting him know.
Or that it would get mentioned in passing, at some point...
Evan
ras...@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Aliera definitely still has the great sword she got from Kieron
in Yendi. I'm not sure if there's an overlap between the times
she has Kieron's sword and Pathfinder, but by the following
quote, there's no doubt she's still got the blade from the Paths
of the Dead.
"I saw three more guards at Norathar's feet. Aliera mean-
while, was wielding her eight-foot greatsword like a toy,
flipping it back and forth amid their ranks." (pg. 195)
Nils Weinander,7430,000446
d...@martha.utcc.utk.edu (David DeLaney) :
>Crossroads Adventures, _Dzurlord_. Don't think I've read it yet. There
>were eight Crossroads Adventures I know of and they're not that hard to
>read all-threads-at-once if you have a piece of paper handy.
Is there someone who knows the ISBN of this book?
/Nils W
Graydon
midd...@MCS.COM (Evan Middleton) writes:
>Even if Spellbreaker had "chosen" Vlad, I don't believe that his friends, who
>know his feelings about Morganti weapons, would let him walk around with one,
>without letting him know.
caught with a morganit weapon on their person!
Spellbreaker almost certainly doesn't belong to a class of objects;
if it did, Sethra would have a much better idea what it is. (If the
class was at all extensive or important.)
All we _really_ know about Spellbreaker is that it's significant,
that it can block spells, that it's not always quite the same length
(at least, Vlad doesn't always describe it consistently), and that
it can heal small wounds. That it can do stuff Vlad hasn't found out
about yet seems awfully *likely*, but maybe not.
Graydon
Sean Eric Fagan
>All we _really_ know about Spellbreaker is that it's significant,
>that it can block spells, that it's not always quite the same length
>(at least, Vlad doesn't always describe it consistently), and that
>it can heal small wounds. That it can do stuff Vlad hasn't found out
>about yet seems awfully *likely*, but maybe not.
I'd ignore the length problem, given that Vlad doesn't always describe
Morollan's hair the same way! (Despite there only being four or five
paragraphs difference between the two descriptions :).)
One other thing we know is that it can move by itself, looking like a
coiled yendi. He found it that way, and it did the same thing when he
wanted to use it to kill himself.
As for healing... its possible it can only do that on another plane
(i.e., the Hall of Judgement, or wherever Verra resides when she wants
to talk to Vlad).
Also, we know that it has Sethra mystified. She doesn't know as much
about it as she originally did, I think. (She had some reason,
originally, for wanting Vlad to name it, but when she actually started
investigating it, she found out things she didn't know, and knew there
was more she didn't.)
I think I will still maintain that it is a Serioli-wrought shield: it
has mystical properties, like the Morganti weapons (they destroy a
soul, Shieldbreaker destroys spells), and it has a certain kind of
sentience, like the Morganti weapons (Vlad can feel them, psychicly,
and Shieldbreaker moved around on its own when there was a reason to
distract Vlad).
I doubt it is a Great Weapon-class shield (so I guess it's not one of
the heretofore unknown 17 Great Shields :)). But I could be wrong.
David DeLaney
>>Tsalmoth maintains though none knows how. - Only thing I can recall
>>is the use of tsalmoth butter in cooking.
>
>tsalmoth would be large, clumsy beasts. I don't think we've met a Tsalmoth,
>though.
I *seem* to recall that we met one, possibly at the rebel headquarters,
in Teckla. Don't have my books with me. I'm pretty sure we've met at least
one somewhere.
Dave
David DeLaney
Crossroads Adventures, _Dzurlord_. Don't think I've read it yet. There
were eight Crossroads Adventures I know of and they're not that hard to
read all-threads-at-once if you have a piece of paper handy.
For future reference:
Deryni Challenge
Dzurlord
Encyclopedia of Xanth
Fate's Trick (Heinlein, Glory Road)
Ghost of a Chance (Xanth)
Revolt on Majipoor
Seven No-Trump (Amber)
A Warlock's Blade (Gramarye)
Dave "walls of to-be-read books" DeLaney
Nathan Bardsley
>>has mystical properties, like the Morganti weapons (they destroy a
>>soul, Shieldbreaker destroys spells), and it has a certain kind of
>>sentience, like the Morganti weapons (Vlad can feel them, psychicly,
>>and Shieldbreaker moved around on its own when there was a reason to
>>distract Vlad).
We also know that Spellbreaker can be used to travel between different
places. This was in the short story Steve wrote for Ad Astra the year
he was GoH. It's set years after =Athyra=.
--
Nathan Bardsley -- nat...@health.org
Graydon
>has mystical properties, like the Morganti weapons (they destroy a
>soul, Shieldbreaker destroys spells), and it has a certain kind of
>sentience, like the Morganti weapons (Vlad can feel them, psychicly,
>and Shieldbreaker moved around on its own when there was a reason to
>distract Vlad).
magical energy, so if you swing it through them, they get disrupted.
This is a good argument for it being Serioli, actually - who else
could manage to 'enchant' something that eats magic? (Spellbreaker
almost has to be the product of pre-empire sorcery, in other words,
unless of course the Serioli use yet a fourth system.)
It's *not* psychicly linked to Vlad - he'd notice. Loiosh would
notice, even moreso. Even more interesting, that really very
competent Athyra hadn't figured out what it was, but thought it
very valuable, and acquiring Spellbreaker is one of the very few
major events in Vlad's life I'm almost certain Verra didn't have
her multi-jointed fingers in.
Graydon (but I could be wrong)
David Dyer-Bennet
>In article <1994Apr17.1...@ericsson.se> ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se writes:
>>This reminds me of something I have often mused over: what are the Dragaeran
>>animals really?
>and one more unknown: what is a norska?
A rabbit.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, proprietor, The Terraboard 4242 Minnehaha Ave. S.
d...@network.com, d...@terrabit.mn.org Minneapolis, MN 55406
Don't waste your time arguing about allocating +1-612-721-8800
blame; there'll be enough to go around. Fax +1-612-724-3314
Sean Eric Fagan
>We also know that Spellbreaker can be used to travel between different
>places. This was in the short story Steve wrote for Ad Astra the year
>he was GoH. It's set years after =Athyra=.
No, *we* don't know it, because *I*'ve never even heard of that?
Is it available somewhere?
Evan Middleton
very interested in seeing it... Please either email me the information on it,
or post it...
Evan
Dennis Hohn-Chong Cho
Thanks,
Hohn Cho
Scott Schwartz
... I'm almost certain Verra didn't have her multi-jointed fingers in.
How many is multi? Verra may have the same number as us, and easterners
(who aren't human, remember :-)) some other number.
Josh Kaderlan
Well, Vlad never explicitly says how many joints she's got, but it's one
more than he's got in each finger, and I've been presuming he's the same
species as we are. (Unless someone's running a Turing test on r.a.sf.w...)
Belinda Asbell
>>This reminds me of something I have often mused over: what are the Dragaeran
>>animals really?
>
>
>>Tsalmoth
>...maintains though none know how.
given the discussion, I'm inclined to believe the tsalmoth some sort of
bovine critter. It must be a mammal, given that one has tsalmoth butter.
Perhaps a cow?
>
>Jheeghala (yeah right, does anyone besides Mr. Brust himself know how to
>spell this one?)
>No idea what a Jheeghala is. The poem line is:
>Jheeghala (or Tagitchatn or Tagichain or something :)) shift as moments pass
>Does this help anyone else hazard a guess?
chameleon? they shift a lot.
belinda
--
Cwsg yw _________ Belinda Asbell , /(/( my
bywyd heb (|_______( m...@ccd.harris.com * * }=\,\(,!, opinions
lyfrau.__ )_______|) {___(_\ not
(|_______( (|_______( System Administrator ,) ,/ `--> Harris's
Samantha Star Straf
has released The Threee Musketeers with intro by Steven Brust. A wonderful
translation
Tor paperback ISBN 0-812-53602-9
--
------------------- ------------
Samantha Star Straf st...@mcs.com
P Nielsen Hayden
>Not sure were to mention this cause it's really not sf.written but Tor
>has released The Threee Musketeers with intro by Steven Brust. A wonderful
>translation
>Tor paperback ISBN 0-812-53602-9
Gee, I'm glad someone noticed. The release is part of our classics-for-kids
program, many of which have introductions by SF and fantasy writers, like
Jane Yolen or Joe Haldeman.
The translation we used was, in fact, provided by Steve; it dates from the
late 19th century, and neither our researches nor his have come up with the
name of the translator. However, it was originally published by
Little, Brown in the 1880s, and more than anything else it's the origin of
Paarfi's style.
-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com
senior editor, Tor Books : opinions mine
andrew.c.durston
>In article <mongoCo...@netcom.com> mo...@netcom.com (Max Rible) writes:
>>ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander,7430,000446) writes:
>>>This reminds me of something I have often mused over: what are the Dragaeran
>>>animals really?
>>Tiassa
A winged cat or Gryphon comes to mind for some reason...
>
>>Issola strikes from courtly bow - Nils mentions a vague memory that
>>it might be a bird. Members of House Issola are very graceful.
>A crane (tall and white) is what I think of for an issola. Members of
>the House of Issola are graceful, and likely to fit in court quite well.
I always thought of a praying mantis for the Issola ( the hands together
sort of poss ).
Vallista's I saw as Beavers perhaps ( building from debris ).
>
>>Frightened teckla hides in grass - Seem like small rodents. The House
>>is basicaly peasantry.
>
>Mice. Definitely mice.
Rabbits?
>
>>Jhegaala shifts as moments pass. - I recall some reference to
>>jhegaala eggs somewhere...
How about Cuckoos.
>
>
>>Has anyone put together a Dragaeran Bestiary, or are we doing that right
>>now?
>We seem to be doing that, yes :).
And what fun it is!
Ciao,
Andrew
Stewart M. Wiener
: In article <2p1mpk$2...@ftp.health.org> nat...@ftp.health.org (Nathan
Brust himself made it available for downloading on GEnie. I don't know if it
was for a limited time only. I will check my copy to see if he limited the
redistribution, but I seem to recall that he probably did.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stewart Wiener 1L, Temple Law School, evening
s...@astro.ocis.temple.edu gainfully employed, daytime
stuart lutzenhiser
Does anyone know.. he asked knowingly ;-) .. is TOR or another publisher
intending at anytime to release the 3rd and 4th books in the D'Artagnan
romances. I have 3Ms and 20 years after and the Man in the Iron Mask.
But the other two seem to be unavailable. I believe that is where we
stand at the moment, however I was wondering if anyone knew of any
future plans for these novels.
Thanx,
Stuart Lutzenhiser,
slut...@indiana.edu
David Gibbs
>In article <mongoCo...@netcom.com> mo...@netcom.com (Max Rible) writes:
>
>Other than Brust (and the nobks who know him and get to read his books
>before they're published, and then boast about it on the net? :))? Probably
>not. We've never seen a Serioli, and only had one mentioned indirectly,
>in _The Phoenix Guards_.
I think one was also mentioned in one of the Vlad books -- probably
_Yendi_. Sethra is unable to leave Dzur mountain for some reason,
and we later find out that she had been fighting a battle at the time
with (I think) a Serioli. Is this battle in _Yendi_, and are we
explicitly told what/who her opponent was, or was it just speculated
what her opponent was, and was it a Serioli?
(BTW, She won.)
-David
(dag...@qnx.com)
Erik Johnson
> s...@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) writes:
> >mo...@netcom.com (Max Rible) writes:
> >>Tsalmoth maintains though none knows how. - Only thing I can recall
> >>is the use of tsalmoth butter in cooking.
> >
> >The part about maintaining although none know how makes me think that
> >tsalmoth would be large, clumsy beasts. I don't think we've met a
> >Tsalmoth, though.
> I *seem* to recall that we met one, possibly at the rebel headquarters,
> in Teckla. Don't have my books with me. I'm pretty sure we've met at least
> one somewhere.
Wasn't Lord Garland in Phoenix Guards a Tsalmoth? I reread that not long
ago, and that seems to stick in my mind.
Erik
____________________________________________________________________________
Erik N. Johnson Don't believe the return address.
KLA Instruments Corp. The one and only True Address is:
San Jose, CA e_jo...@kla.com.
KLA's only opinion on the subject is that I should get back to work.
G E/CS d-- -p+ c++(++++) l u+ e- m++(--)* s+/+ !n h f+ g(+) w+ t@ r+@ y+(*)
My goliard mind
pauses, seized by story. Words
weave stronger than rope.
David DeLaney
>David DeLaney <d...@martha.utcc.utk.edu> wrote:
>>> Yendi
>>> (Sethra the younger gets in trouble,
>>> no reference to Kieron's sword that I can remember)
>>> (Aliera has Pathfinder? I can't remember.)
>>Aliera *definitely* has Pathfinder. Think about the plot (this being Yendi,
>>you *know* there's a Plot): what was the (complicated) trick they were using
>>to get X out of Y? What did it involve X doing to Aliera, and how did she
>>survive it?
>>
>I think you have *Yendi* mixed up with *Jhereg*.
[spoilers munched]
>>So, contrary to someone else's post, Aliera *must* have Pathfinder before
>>Yendi starts off.
>>
>Maybe, maybe not. Someone's gotta go check *Yendi*.
Oog, you're right; that's the plot of Jhereg (Yendi was more complicated,
involving Vlad outplotting a Yendi [who I won't name 'cuz it's a spoiler]) -
but I *think* Aliera has Pathfinder there as well - there's at least one
Grand Battle Scene near the end). Agreed; someone please check Yendi (maybe me).
>>Dave "How many Yendi does it take to sharpen a sword?" DeLaney
>
>Josh "Lunch." Kaderlan :)
Dave "Three: one to sharpen the sword, and one to confuse the issue" DeLaney
Josh Kaderlan
>In article <2ouvqk$n...@hearst.cac.psu.edu> jek...@cac.psu.edu (Josh Kaderlan) writes:
>>This is just Kragar's stock answer whenever Vlad asks him why he was
>>kicked out of the Dragon. He uses it in one of the earlier books
>>(*Jhereg*, I believe), and Vlad explicitly says that Kragar is lying.
>
>No. Kragar says that nobody would listen to him give orders, so he told them
>all to jump off of Deathsgate Falls. Vlad then comments that that *last*
>is a lie -- because he knows Kragar was drummed out.
>
>So does Aliera, incidently.
>
Well, I just finished re-reading *Taltos*, and when Vlad and Kragar team
up for their first job together, Kragar says that one of the conditions
of his contract is that he never be required to give an order. So (I'll
contradict myself here, hypothetically) Kragar may well have been drummed
out of the Dragon for the reason he gives. But I could have sworn that
Vlad said he was lying. Gotta go check the books...
Josh
Josh Kaderlan
David DeLaney <d...@martha.utcc.utk.edu> wrote:
>jek...@cac.psu.edu (Josh Kaderlan) writes:
>>David DeLaney <d...@martha.utcc.utk.edu> wrote:
>>>> Yendi
>>>> (Sethra the younger gets in trouble,
>>>> no reference to Kieron's sword that I can remember)
>>>> (Aliera has Pathfinder? I can't remember.)
>>>Aliera *definitely* has Pathfinder. Think about the plot (this being Yendi,
>>>you *know* there's a Plot): what was the (complicated) trick they were using
>>>to get X out of Y? What did it involve X doing to Aliera, and how did she
>>>survive it?
>>>
>>I think you have *Yendi* mixed up with *Jhereg*.
>[spoilers munched]
>>>So, contrary to someone else's post, Aliera *must* have Pathfinder before
>>>Yendi starts off.
>>>
>>Maybe, maybe not. Someone's gotta go check *Yendi*.
>
>Oog, you're right; that's the plot of Jhereg (Yendi was more complicated,
>involving Vlad outplotting a Yendi [who I won't name 'cuz it's a spoiler]) -
>but I *think* Aliera has Pathfinder there as well - there's at least one
>Grand Battle Scene near the end). Agreed; someone please check Yendi (maybe me).
>
at that point. There are two battle scenes in which Vlad says Aliera is
wielding a sword longer than she is tall. So she doesn't have Pathfinder
then... When the hell does she get it? And BTW, what the hell was that
bit in *Taltos* about since Kieron won't leave the Paths of the Dead,
Aliera should take his sword? Will that be one of the "aha's" in *Orca*?
>>>Dave "How many Yendi does it take to sharpen a sword?" DeLaney
>>
>>Josh "Lunch." Kaderlan :)
>
>Dave "Three: one to sharpen the sword, and one to confuse the issue" DeLaney
Josh "That's not a very good Chtorran joke. :)" Kaderlan
Sean Eric Fagan
>So (I'll
>contradict myself here, hypothetically) Kragar may well have been drummed
>out of the Dragon for the reason he gives. But I could have sworn that
>Vlad said he was lying. Gotta go check the books...
*sigh*
Saying almost exactly what I said before, only with the quote this time:
Bottom of page 129 of my copy of _Jhereg_:
"That's why I never made it as a Dragonlord. I'd give an order
in the middle of a battle and no one would pay any attention.
They gave me so much trouble over it that I finally told 'em all
to jump off Deathgate Falls."
I nodded and let it pass. That last part, I knew was a lie.
He hadn't left the House of the Dragon on his own; he'd been
expelled.
Kragar is, for all intents and purposes, nearly invisible. If he gave
an order during a battle, he would quite likely not be heard. And a Dragon
who couldn't function in battle (he's not going to be much use in a
battle as a soldier, either, because he wouldn't be noticed to give orders
*to*, and, worse from the Dragon perspective, anyone he killed would be
caught unawares, which they don't approve of), and the only thing to do with
him, then, is kick him out of the house.
Josh Kaderlan
>
>Bottom of page 129 of my copy of _Jhereg_:
>
> "That's why I never made it as a Dragonlord. I'd give an order
> in the middle of a battle and no one would pay any attention.
> They gave me so much trouble over it that I finally told 'em all
> to jump off Deathgate Falls."
>
> I nodded and let it pass. That last part, I knew was a lie.
> He hadn't left the House of the Dragon on his own; he'd been
> expelled.
>
>Kragar is, for all intents and purposes, nearly invisible. If he gave
>an order during a battle, he would quite likely not be heard. And a Dragon
>who couldn't function in battle (he's not going to be much use in a
>battle as a soldier, either, because he wouldn't be noticed to give orders
>*to*, and, worse from the Dragon perspective, anyone he killed would be
>caught unawares, which they don't approve of), and the only thing to do with
>him, then, is kick him out of the house.
>
all that it's cracked up to be. But this does raise an interesting
point: When Vlad takes off at the end of *Phoenix*, he says that Kragar's
changed enough that he won't have that problem any more. So what
changed? And does the change affect Kragar's ability to sneak up on people?
Josh
Mark Alan Lang
>This is a good argument for it being Serioli, actually - who else
>could manage to 'enchant' something that eats magic? (Spellbreaker
>almost has to be the product of pre-empire sorcery, in other words,
>unless of course the Serioli use yet a fourth system.)
We already know what Spellbreaker is. In _Poenix_ they say that
it's "gold phoenix stone" which has the natural property of blocking
socery, just as "black phoenix stone" has the natural property of
blocking psychic activity.
However - Spellbreaker *does* seem to be enchanted in some way. It
can't be through sorcery, can it? Pre-empire sorcery, maybe? Something
we haven't encountered yet? (Hey, what was before the Jenoine? (Is that
how it's spelled?))
On 19-Apr-94 in Re: Brust: Various Topics: ..
user Nathan Bard...@ftp.heal writes:
>We also know that Spellbreaker can be used to travel between different
>places. This was in the short story Steve wrote for Ad Astra the year
>he was GoH. It's set years after =Athyra=.
Really??? Does anybody know how I can get a copy of that story?
----------------------------------
| Mark Lang | elis...@cmu.edu |
----------------------------------
parme...@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
>>Kragar is, for all intents and purposes, nearly invisible. If he gave
>>an order during a battle, he would quite likely not be heard. And a Dragon
>>who couldn't function in battle (he's not going to be much use in a
>>battle as a soldier, either, because he wouldn't be noticed to give orders
>>*to*, and, worse from the Dragon perspective, anyone he killed would be
>>caught unawares, which they don't approve of), and the only thing to do with
>>him, then, is kick him out of the house.
>>
> Yep, you were right and I was wrong. Oh well, guess the ol' memory ain't
> all that it's cracked up to be. But this does raise an interesting
> point: When Vlad takes off at the end of *Phoenix*, he says that Kragar's
> changed enough that he won't have that problem any more. So what
> changed? And does the change affect Kragar's ability to sneak up on people?
I think Kragar had a problem with this as much as the House of
Dragon did. If you remember, when he first teams up with Vlad, Kragar
says he's working for Neilar (?) with the understanding that Kragar won't
have to give any orders to anyone. Sounds like a big psych problem to me.
Vlad's comment that Kragar has changed enough is more that Kragar
has learned to live with not being seen (love to have HIM in that Monty
Python skit) and it no longer bothers Kragar to the point of distraction
to have to get someone's attention to give an order. Nor is needing to do
that a problem in the House of Jhereg as often as in the House of Dragon.
--
"Sirs and ladies, I will make this guarantee: if, upon taking
my remedies, you mortify and die, you return the unused medicine
for a partial refund. Where else will you hear such a guarantee?"
Shimrod in "Lyonesse: Suldrun's Garden", by Jack Vance
___ Gregg Parmentier ___ parme...@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu ___
Erica Liebman Sadun
he did?"
Erica "30" Sadun
In article <1994Apr21.134705.1@iowasp>,
<parme...@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu> wrote:
>In article <2p6g8b$f...@hearst.cac.psu.edu>, jek...@cac.psu.edu (Josh Kaderlan) writes:
>>>Kragar is, for all intents and purposes, nearly invisible. If he gave
>>>an order during a battle, he would quite likely not be heard. And a Dragon
>>>who couldn't function in battle (he's not going to be much use in a
>>>battle as a soldier, either, because he wouldn't be noticed to give orders
>>>*to*, and, worse from the Dragon perspective, anyone he killed would be
>>>caught unawares, which they don't approve of), and the only thing to do with
>>>him, then, is kick him out of the house.
>> Yep, you were right and I was wrong. Oh well, guess the ol' memory ain't
>> all that it's cracked up to be. But this does raise an interesting
>> point: When Vlad takes off at the end of *Phoenix*, he says that Kragar's
>> changed enough that he won't have that problem any more. So what
>> changed? And does the change affect Kragar's ability to sneak up on people?
> I think Kragar had a problem with this as much as the House of
>Dragon did. If you remember, when he first teams up with Vlad, Kragar
>says he's working for Neilar (?) with the understanding that Kragar won't
>have to give any orders to anyone. Sounds like a big psych problem to me.
> Vlad's comment that Kragar has changed enough is more that Kragar
>has learned to live with not being seen (love to have HIM in that Monty
>Python skit) and it no longer bothers Kragar to the point of distraction
>to have to get someone's attention to give an order. Nor is needing to do
>that a problem in the House of Jhereg as often as in the House of Dragon.
My take on this is that Kragar has matured and recovered from his
Dragon house wrenching.
Erica
===========================ERICA SADUN================================
Grep foo whilst ye may, oh daemons of the Spring...
er...@cc.gatech.edu
======================================================================
Graydon
d...@terrabit.mn.org (David Dyer-Bennet) writes:
>ko...@ellis.uchicago.edu (Pam Korda) writes:
>>In article <1994Apr17.1...@ericsson.se> ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se writes:
>>>This reminds me of something I have often mused over: what are the Dragaeran
>>>animals really?
>
>>and one more unknown: what is a norska?
>A rabbit.
meat component of their diet actively. (cf :Brokedown Palace:)
Something like a racoon (particularly given the existence of
a Norska fur cap in :Phoenix:), perhaps, but they seem to be
more like omnivourous guinea pigs than anything.
Graydon
Shimmering Warm and Bright
> Vlad's comment that Kragar has changed enough is more that Kragar
>has learned to live with not being seen (love to have HIM in that Monty
>Python skit) and it no longer bothers Kragar to the point of distraction
>to have to get someone's attention to give an order. Nor is needing to do
>that a problem in the House of Jhereg as often as in the House of Dragon.
Don'tcha think Kragar's talent for disappearing would be very handy in
the House of Jhereg? I mean, it's much harder to stick a knife in someone's
back if you're not really sure he's there.
,,,
(o o)
*~~~oOO--(_)--OOo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* Laura Bunting | "Playing Shakespeare is very tiring.
* star...@uiuc.edu | You never get to sit down unless you're
* or | a king."
* bun...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu | Josephine Hull
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sean Eric Fagan
>I think one was also mentioned in one of the Vlad books -- probably
>_Yendi_. Sethra is unable to leave Dzur mountain for some reason,
>and we later find out that she had been fighting a battle at the time
>with (I think) a Serioli.
No. She was fighting a Jenoine. This is stated in _Jhereg_.
As to what a Serioli is... well. The Dragaerans are Elves. And the
Serioli make jewelry and other metalworks.
The Serioli are, then (probably :)), Dwarves. I'd expect them to be
short (shorter than Easterners, even), musculur, and spend a lot of
time mining.
Hans Rancke-Madsen
>Does anyone know.. he asked knowingly ;-) .. is TOR or another publisher
>intending at anytime to release the 3rd and 4th books in the D'Artagnan
>romances. I have 3Ms and 20 years after and the Man in the Iron Mask.
>But the other two seem to be unavailable. I believe that is where we
>stand at the moment, however I was wondering if anyone knew of any
>future plans for these novels.
3rd and 4th? "The Man in the Iron Mask" _is_ the 3rd, AFAIN. I know about
the story about Porthos' illegitimate son and his struggle against the
petty machinations of Aramis (called "Musketerernes AEtling" (The Musketeers'
Heir) in Danish), but that's only one other. Am I mixed up about the titles?
"The Man in the Iron Mask" is the one that ends with Athos, Porthos, and
D'Artagnan dead, right?
Another question: Is there any chance that TOR will publish the 'Years
Between' series of books written in the 19th Century by Paul Feval? They
detail the exploits of D'Artagnan in the years between "Musketeers" and
"20 Years". I believe there were 6 of them. I haven't been able to track
them down, so I don't know if they are any good.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
ran...@diku.dk
------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
(after Tom Lehrer)
Beth Nachison
writes...
>st...@MCS.COM (Samantha Star Straf) writes:
>
>>Not sure were to mention this cause it's really not sf.written but Tor
>>has released The Threee Musketeers with intro by Steven Brust. A wonderful
>>translation
>>Tor paperback ISBN 0-812-53602-9
>
>Gee, I'm glad someone noticed. The release is part of our classics-for-kids
>program, many of which have introductions by SF and fantasy writers, like
>Jane Yolen or Joe Haldeman.
>
>The translation we used was, in fact, provided by Steve; it dates from the
>late 19th century, and neither our researches nor his have come up with the
>name of the translator. However, it was originally published by
>Little, Brown in the 1880s, and more than anything else it's the origin of
>Paarfi's style.
Synchronicity strikes again--I was browsing a used-bookstore in
New Haven this afternoon and came on a set of Dumas novels in the
1888 Little, Brown edition. The set includes The Three Musketeers (2 vol.),
Twenty Years After (2 vol) & Le Vicomte de Bragelonne (5 vol.--btw, for
the Danish gentleman who posted earlier today, "The Man in the Iron
Mask" is the FINAL volume of this novel); The Count of
Monte Cristo (4 vol); La Dame de Monsoreau (2 vol) & The Forty-Five (2 vol)
The set is uniformly bound, in very good condition, and is available
for about $125, according to the store owner (the price was marked inside
one of the volumes, but he couldn't remember which one when I asked).
The store will ship them anywhere.
So if anyone is interested in buying them, e-mail me & I'll give
you the address to contact the store.
Robert A. Woodward
Rancke-Madsen) wrote:
I have a reference that lists The Vicomte de Bragelonne, Ten Years Later,
and Louise de la Valliere as related to Three Musketeers etc.
Nathan Bardsley
The Three Musketeers
Twenty Years After
Ten Years Later
The third book is so long that it is frequently split up into three
parts, i.e., The Viscont de Bragelone, Louis de Valliere, and The Man
in the Iron Mask.
With Steve doing the titles the way he is, I expect that I'm wrong in
thinking that Ten Years Later as the composite title for the third
part, and I've got the composite title and the first part title mixed
up. Of course, there are so many editions of the various books using
the same four tiltes for various clusterings of the different parts of the
story....
--
Nathan Bardsley -- nat...@health.org
Steven Greenland
Fred A Haskell <fa...@maroon.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>The job of a cover artist is to capture the essense of the book in such a way
>that the cover will appeal to a person who is likely to enjoy reading the
>book. If I'm not mistaken, Steve is at least pleased, and in some cases
>ecstatic, with how well the cover artists have achieved this for all but
>one of his books.
Which one? (I would guess Cowboy Feng's....)
--
Steve Greenland | ste...@neosoft.com | '91 SHO Mocha/Mocha |
The true metric of user friendliness is this: If this program were a
person, how long would it be before you punched it out?
Sean Eric Fagan
> We already know what Spellbreaker is. In _Poenix_ they say that
>it's "gold phoenix stone" which has the natural property of blocking
>socery, just as "black phoenix stone" has the natural property of
>blocking psychic activity.
(BTW, while I was looking for this quote, I found out when Khaavren resigns,
and Sethra Lavode takes over. This will undoubtedly be featured prominently
in one of the upcoming Khaavren Romances. Neat :).)
Page 209, _Phoenix_
``There is more to that chain than I know,'' [Sethra] said.
But I think we are able to determine one thing now. It is not,
in fact, made of gold. It is made of gold Phoenix stone.''
As I, and others, have been saying, we do not know what Spellbreaker is.
We know that it is made, at least partially, of gold Phoenix stone, and
that is (all or part of) how it is able to stop spells. (I don't think
that's all, because I wouldn't think it could break spells it just brushed
up against, then. But that's just idle speculation.) We also know that
it is able to heal a fairly major cut on Vlad's hand when in the presence
of Verra.
The Orb appears to be made of some sort of crystal. Blackwand appears to
be made of black steel. And Iceflame appears to be made (like the Orb)
of crystal.
Simply knowing what it is made of doesn't give one any idea of what it
*is*.
As Sethra said, there is more to Spellbreaker than we know.
Joel Polowin
>All we _really_ know about Spellbreaker is that it's significant,
>that it can block spells, that it's not always quite the same length
>(at least, Vlad doesn't always describe it consistently), and that
>it can heal small wounds. That it can do stuff Vlad hasn't found out
>about yet seems awfully *likely*, but maybe not.
The links are golden rings which seem to vary unpredictably in size and
weight. My favourite nonsense theory is that they're recycled out of
Tolkien's universe after the Elves moved on, and they weren't needed there
any more. Waste not, want not...
Joel
pol...@silicon.chem.queensu.ca, pol...@chem.queensu.ca,
polo...@qucdn.queensu.ca
Hans Rancke-Madsen
>I have a reference that lists The Vicomte de Bragelonne, Ten Years Later,
>and Louise de la Valliere as related to Three Musketeers etc.
_Ten Years Later_ is the Danish title of the whole story of which _The
Man in the Iron Mask_ is a part. Since Louise de la Valliere is a
character in that same story, I suspect that there are some problem
with variant titles involved.
That apparently means that you've never heard of the fourth Muskeeteer story.
It's protagonist is Porthos' illegitimate son and the main antagonist is
Aramis (he's back from his banishment at the end of _Ten Years After_ as
an ambassador of the King of Spain).
Perhaps this has never been translated into English?
David Dyer-Bennet
>In article <1994Apr20....@terrabit.mn.org>
>d...@terrabit.mn.org (David Dyer-Bennet) writes:
>>ko...@ellis.uchicago.edu (Pam Korda) writes:
>>>In article <1994Apr17.1...@ericsson.se> ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se writes:
>>>>This reminds me of something I have often mused over: what are the Dragaeran
>>>>animals really?
>>
>>>and one more unknown: what is a norska?
>>A rabbit.
>
>I don't think so; norska are omnivores, and prefer to hunt the
>meat component of their diet actively. (cf :Brokedown Palace:)
Well, they could have changed between the second generation of the
world when I was involved and the books, but they definitely *were*
rabbits. I'd probably tend to not notice contradictory information.
(I learned of the impending appearance of Carolyn & Aliera from the
phrase "The Norska died!").
--
David Dyer-Bennet, proprietor, The Terraboard 4242 Minnehaha Ave. S.
d...@network.com, d...@terrabit.mn.org Minneapolis, MN 55406
Don't waste your time arguing about allocating +1-612-721-8800
blame; there'll be enough to go around. Fax +1-612-724-3314
Fred A Haskell
Graydon, I think you're working too hard on this one--sometimes a cigar is
just a cigar.
I personally believe that the norska owe their existence to a comment James
Blish, writing as William Atheling, Jr., made in _The Issue at Hand_ or _More
Issues at Hand_. He commented negatively about authors who, in an attempt to
seem more "science fictional" or more "fantastic," would call a rabbit some
funny-sounding name instead of just "rabbit." So Steve, with his particular
sense of humor, created the norska--a creature which would lure the reader
into thinking they were identical to rabbits (and that Steve had therefore
violated this rather reasonable rule-of-thumb promulgated by Blish) until
their important difference was revealed....
Besides, how do we know that Earthly rabbits =wouldn't= eat dragons if they
were available...? <g>
--
Fred A. Levy Haskell | "I do believe you are what you perceive
fa...@maroon.tc.umn.edu | what comes is better than what came before"
| --The Velvet Underground
Melchar
> > >intending at anytime to release the 3rd and 4th books in the D'Artagnan
> > >romances. I have 3Ms and 20 years after and the Man in the Iron Mask.
> > >But the other two seem to be unavailable. I believe that is where we
> > >stand at the moment, however I was wondering if anyone knew of any
> > >future plans for these novels.
> >
> > 3rd and 4th? "The Man in the Iron Mask" _is_ the 3rd, AFAIN. I know about
> > the story about Porthos' illegitimate son and his struggle against the
Athos's son.
> > petty machinations of Aramis (called "Musketerernes AEtling" (The Musketeer
> > Heir) in Danish), but that's only one other. Am I mixed up about the titles
> > "The Man in the Iron Mask" is the one that ends with Athos, Porthos, and
> > D'Artagnan dead, right?
> >
> > Another question: Is there any chance that TOR will publish the 'Years
> > Between' series of books written in the 19th Century by Paul Feval? They
> > detail the exploits of D'Artagnan in the years between "Musketeers" and
> > "20 Years". I believe there were 6 of them. I haven't been able to track
> > them down, so I don't know if they are any good.
> >
>
Richard Frueh
which he describes all of the animals:
Dragon: Large reptile which does not breathe fire. Distinguished by
tentacles with which it picks up psychic impressions. House of Dragon
represents war.
Lyorn: looks like a medium-size golden-haired dog, except for horn in the
middle of its head. Represents tradition.
Tiassa: large panther with batlike wings - represents catalyst and
inspiration.
Hawk - to a dragaeran this is anything from a goshawk to an eagle -
represents curiosity.
Dzur - large black tiger - represents heroism.
Issola: vaguely storklike, with sharper beak and darker colors - represents
courtliness and surprise.
Tsalmoth: somewhat bearlike ((of course, I find it hard to relate this to
tree-dwelling turtles) - is known for unpredictability and tenacity.
Vallista - amphibious creature living around streams and ponds - represents
construction and tearing down.
Jhereg - small flying poisonous reptile that lives on carrion. represents
corruption.
Iorich - large, slow-moving river-dwlling reptile. Herbivore, but known to
follow (sometimes for weeks), track down, and kill anything which attacks
them. - represents justice and retribution.
Chreotha - large foxlike creature which uses its saliva to build a web
strong enough to ensnare a Dzure, and sometimes a dragon - represents the
trap.
Yendi - desert dwelling sand-snake. It's bite is so subtle that few animals
(or people) will realize they've been bitten until, a few minutes to an hour
later, the victim collapses0 represents subtlety and misdirection.
Orca - mercantilism and the vicious side of business - no animal
description.
Teckla - small salt marsh harvest mouse - represents cowardice and
fertility.
Jhegaala - lives in swamps - starts as an egg, goes to moth, then large toad
- passes through a few other stages in between - represents metamorphosis.
Athyra - owllike bird. Emits psychic signals which draw its prey to it, or
cause fear in enemies - it is the house of magic.
Phoenix - represents decadence and rebirth - no animal description.
All houses are noble except the teckla.
Richard Frueh r...@netcom.COM
-- Just imagine a really neat quote here --
Scott Schwartz
Dragon: Large reptile which does not breathe fire.
Hence the name, "Breath of Fire battalion". :-)
Graydon
fa...@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Fred A Haskell) writes:
[concerning the omnivority of norska and their identification as rabbits]
>Besides, how do we know that Earthly rabbits =wouldn't= eat dragons if they
>were available...? <g>
a dragon down, kill it, drag it home, and grind little bits of it up
to feed his Norska, cleverly hidden in their seeds so they won't be
affronted at being presented with meat they didn't catch themselves.
The damn things are vorpal bunnies; must be awfully hard on the
local teckla population.
Graydon (omnivourous _rabbits_? sheesh...)
Graydon
d...@terrabit.mn.org (David Dyer-Bennet) writes:
>SAUN...@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Graydon) writes:
>>In article <1994Apr20....@terrabit.mn.org>
>>d...@terrabit.mn.org (David Dyer-Bennet) writes:
>>>>and one more unknown: what is a norska?
>>>A rabbit.
>>
>>I don't think so; norska are omnivores, and prefer to hunt the
>>meat component of their diet actively. (cf :Brokedown Palace:)
>
>Well, they could have changed between the second generation of the
>world when I was involved and the books, but they definitely *were*
>rabbits. I'd probably tend to not notice contradictory information.
>(I learned of the impending appearance of Carolyn & Aliera from the
>phrase "The Norska died!").
rabbits, too.
I guess they're just Vorpal Bunnies.
Graydon (or the Fenarians call something *else* norska...)
Hans Rancke-Madsen
>>>3rd and 4th? "The Man in the Iron Mask" _is_ the 3rd, AFAIN. I know about
>>>the story about Porthos' illegitimate son and his struggle against the
> Athos's son.
If I had meant Athos' son I would have written Athos' son. The story takes
place some 16-18 years after the events in "Ten Years After". The hero is
Porthos' illegitimate son by a local woman on Belle-Isle-en-Mer (where
Pothos and Aramis spent some time fortifying the island). Is that clear
now?
Leanne Richard
> slut...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (stuart lutzenhiser) writes:
>
>>Does anyone know.. he asked knowingly ;-) .. is TOR or another publisher
>>intending at anytime to release the 3rd and 4th books in the D'Artagnan
>>romances. I have 3Ms and 20 years after and the Man in the Iron Mask.
>>But the other two seem to be unavailable. I believe that is where we
>>stand at the moment, however I was wondering if anyone knew of any
>>future plans for these novels.
>
> 3rd and 4th? "The Man in the Iron Mask" _is_ the 3rd, AFAIN. I know about
Never read "The Man in the Iron Mask", so I can't comment on whether it
involves the Three Musketeers or not, but the 3rd and 4th books referred to
above are:
The Vicomte de Bragelonne (pardon spelling, this is from memory); and
Louise de la Valliere.
These two more or less seem to refer to Athos' illegitimate son and may even
have been published as one volume at some time. (I haven't the 3rd but have the
4th. They're not easy to find. (I did find the 3rd but it was in French!))
> the story about Porthos' illegitimate son and his struggle against the
> petty machinations of Aramis (called "Musketerernes AEtling" (The Musketeers'
> Heir) in Danish), but that's only one other. Am I mixed up about the titles?
By Dumas? I've never seen it listed in a catalog anywhere.
> Another question: Is there any chance that TOR will publish the 'Years
> Between' series of books written in the 19th Century by Paul Feval? They
> detail the exploits of D'Artagnan in the years between "Musketeers" and
> "20 Years". I believe there were 6 of them. I haven't been able to track
> them down, so I don't know if they are any good.
>
Would like to know about this one as well ...
Leanne Richard
The University of Newcastle
Australia
Graydon
mcda...@convex.com (Tim McDaniel) writes:
>Note, however, that Vlad is somewhat unreliable, and he's a city boy and
>didn't even recognize a norska skin when he saw it, so he might not know
>that those are teeth, not "fangs". On the other hand, he was in the
>restaurant business, and perhaps he had to deal with norska carcasses
>and know just what they're like, and was just having a blond moment.
I am more and more coming to believe that Vlad has been letting
his very fast reflexes substitute not merely for good manners
but for paying attention, at least a largish fraction of the time.
Maybe they _are_ fangs - there was a marsupial lion in Australia
that had 'fangs' that looked like large rabbit incisors. They
paleo types only became convinced it was really a carnivore
recently, when they could get a look at the scratches on the
teeth. And the durned things are pretty clearly omnivores...
This also reminds me of a point that's been bugging me - why
do they eat the House animals?
That's not the only thing they eat, of course, but there are
a lot of references to things like Lyorn leg with red peppers,
or feeding Loiosh a bit of hawk's wing, and so forth. All the
house animals with the possible exception of the Iorich and the
certain exception of the Teckla are carnivores, which makes them
lousy food animals, so why? Former ritual purposes become
common ussage? An eclectic cusine? Except Dragerans can't cook -
maybe they never developed much cooking because they can eat
anything and have extremely rugged digestions and sturdy senses
of taste?
Graydon
Tim McDaniel
Graydon <SAUN...@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> wrote:
>In article <1994Apr24.0...@terrabit.mn.org>
>d...@terrabit.mn.org (David Dyer-Bennet) writes:
>>Well, they could have changed between the second generation of the
>>world when I was involved and the books, but they definitely *were*
>>rabbits.
>I guess they're just Vorpal Bunnies.
Fom _Phoenix_, p. 66: Vlad, Loiosh, Aliera, Aibynn, and Cawti are
escaping after breaking V&Ai from the Greenaere prison cell.
Aibynn found his drum ... He also hunted around some more, then gave
a small sound of satisfaction and pulled a mass of fur from near the
tree I'd fallen from. He shook it and put it on his head.
"What kind of animal was that?" I asked.
"A norska."
"Oh, yes, I see." It was dark brown and white, and still had the
norska face in it, with the fangs showing.
Note, however, that Vlad is somewhat unreliable, and he's a city boy and
didn't even recognize a norska skin when he saw it, so he might not know
that those are teeth, not "fangs". On the other hand, he was in the
restaurant business, and perhaps he had to deal with norska carcasses
and know just what they're like, and was just having a blond moment.
--
Tim McDaniel, Convex Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX (near Dallas)
If mcda...@convex.com fails, try mcda...@convex.convex.com or
mcda...@mozart.convex.com
Ian Borchardt
>Iorich
>Hmmm, "Quiet Iorich won't forget". Maybe they're elephants?
They are definitely not elephants. In _Phoenix_, while Vlad is "visiting"
The Demon Goddess for the second time he takes the time to look at the
carvings on the doors of the corridor.
One of them he describes a mythical four legged animal with a tentacle
growing out of it's nose and horns growing out of it's mouth. Sounds
kind of like an elephant to me, which indicates that they don't exist
in Vlad's world.
--
Ian Borchardt My mind isn't always in the
ibor...@physics.adelaide.edu.au gutter -- sometimes it comes out
Medical Physicist to feed.
Adelaide Radiotherapy Centre
Frossie
Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but I've been
skip-reading the thread to avoid FHYA spoliers...
What does Taltos actually mean ? I assumed it was a made-up word until
I came across it in _Gypsy_, in a context suggesting something like
"witch/magician". Is it a Hungarian/Romani word ?
Frossie, convinced there must be a Hungarian reading this group.
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