Giant monsters why haven't the US done well on this compared to Japan?
tobymax43
monsters I have seen in a long time. It made me
think of the Japanese monster movies and how well these creatures look
and have personality. Except for
King Kong (a supersized ape with no special powers except for being a
babe magnet) the US really hasn't
done much although next to King Kong the movie Them is my second
favorite giant monster movie made in the
US - my first is the original King Kong movie.
Now Japanese giant monsters are popular in movies, anime and cartoons
(Pokemon) all successful in the US. Have they done the same in novels
or just in visual arts? Have any giant monster novels from Japan been
translated to the US. I know there is a wealth of fanfic Godzilla
stories.
Is this cultural that with giant monster genre Japan has been so
successful or except for Kong and
Them no one really in the US tried. Lets forget the horrible US
Godzilla movie.
Son of Kong wasn't a bad movie also. I wonder if Jackson will remake
it. He should. Someone of course needs
to remake Them.
tphile
While I am a lifelong G-Fan and acknowledge Japans greatness in that
area
In defense of America, we are not slackers either. We have
(live action, cartoons are a whole different matter)
Ray Harryhausen. nuff said there.
The Deadly Mantis
Giant Gila Monster
Collosal Man
50 Foot Woman (japan missed the boat on that one)
The Giant Claw
Incredible Shrinking Man
Monolith Monsters
Giant Tarantula
The Blob
Gort
Pod People
The Black Scorpion
and a Great White Shark
to name a few
tphile
Nigel
>
> While I am a lifelong G-Fan and acknowledge Japans greatness in that
> area
> In defense of America, we are not slackers either. We have
> (live action, cartoons are a whole different matter)
>
> Ray Harryhausen. nuff said there.
> The Deadly Mantis
> Giant Gila Monster
> Collosal Man
> 50 Foot Woman (japan missed the boat on that one)
I especially like Pratchett's version of that
> The Giant Claw
> Incredible Shrinking Man
> Monolith Monsters
> Giant Tarantula
> The Blob
> Gort
> Pod People
> The Black Scorpion
> and a Great White Shark
>
> to name a few
Did you deliberately omit Night of the Lepus ? (Not to be confused
with the British film, The Curse of the Were-Rabbit).
Cheers,
Nigel.
Jack Bohn
>On Dec 7, 10:01 pm, tobymax43 <toby...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Recently I saw Skyline (horrible) and it had the fugliest giant
>> monsters I have seen in a long time. It made me
>> think of the Japanese monster movies and how well these creatures look
>> and have personality. Except for
>> King Kong (a supersized ape with no special powers except for being a
>> babe magnet) the US really hasn't
>> done much although next to King Kong the movie Them is my second
>> favorite giant monster movie made in the
>> US - my first is the original King Kong movie.
>> Is this cultural that with giant monster genre Japan has been so
>> successful or except for Kong and
>> Them no one really in the US tried. Lets forget the horrible US
>> Godzilla movie.
How quickly they forget Cloverfield, which made quite a flash in the
pan, and has since suffered a backlash... perhaps I should get around
to watching it...
>> Son of Kong wasn't a bad movie also. I wonder if Jackson will remake
>> it. He should. Someone of course needs
>> to remake Them.
Mighty Joe Young years ago had a not-so-bad remake for a not-so-giant
ape movie.
>While I am a lifelong G-Fan and acknowledge Japans greatness in that
>area
>In defense of America, we are not slackers either. We have
>(live action, cartoons are a whole different matter)
>
>Ray Harryhausen. nuff said there.
Well said!
>Collosal Man
I picture Mike Nelson in a bald wig and mild-mannered voice: "That's
'The Amazing' Collosal Man, please."
>Incredible Shrinking Man
Ah! Clever way to sneak in "giant" animals!
I recently ran across a TV series copycat of this movie, complete to
portentious narration about the dangers to a shrunken man; "World of
Giants," 1959. A government Special Agent suffers an accident that
shrinks him to six inches (15 cm). It might be why the Irwin Allen
show of the next decade had to call itself "Land of the Giants."
(As an aside, Universal made "Shrinking Man," "Tarantula," and "Deadly
Mantis," and apparently controls the rights to the Paramount movie
"Dr. Cyclops." When they released their classic monster movie DVD
sets with the packages showcasing the iconic faces of their
Frankenstein('s Monster), Dracula, The Wolf-Man, etc., I always felt
disappointed that they stopped at The Creature From the Black Lagoon,
and didn't feature his '50s brother the Metaluna Mutant of "This
Island Earth." They could have continued with the above four movies,
and, for some humor, featured not just the face, but the whole tiny
body of Grant Williams, with his pin-sword.)
Which leads me to wonder if the American niche itch isn't filled by
individuals of unique (or at least varied) super powers. Where the
Japanese "super-hero show" is "Ultraman," who can grow to giant-size
to fight giant monstes, the American version is "Superman" or "The Six
Million Dollar Man" (Caidin's _Cyborg_). Not that the Japanese don't
produce individuals blessed cursed, from the '50s "Human Vapor" to the
alien warrior of "Dragonball Z," but as a matter of proportion.
--
-Jack
Howard Brazee
done - _The Iron Giant_. Maybe I'm missing another one.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Charles Combes
news:cc447418-f87d-4d48...@30g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 8, 9:42 am, tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> 50 Foot Woman (japan missed the boat on that one)
>I especially like Pratchett's version of that
I've read most Pratchett, but I don't remember this. What/where is it?
Also, don't forget the giant grasshoppers in Beginning of the End.
Remus Shepherd
> Is this cultural that with giant monster genre Japan has been so
> successful or except for Kong and
> Them no one really in the US tried. Lets forget the horrible US
> Godzilla movie.
American monsters are traditionally mutated and/or giant versions of
normal animals. Japanese monsters are traditionally ancient spirits that
serve as a personification of some theme. Godzilla represented the fear
of atomic power and the US. In his second film, Godzilla and Angilas --
a personification of the USSR -- fight over the Sakhalin Islands, a disputed
territory claimed by Japan. It's all symbolic. (It's also not an accident
that Godzilla became a 'good monster' at the exact same point in history that
Japan and the United States became allies instead of enemies.)
American monster movies generally do not go for symbolism. Which is a
shame. I think symbolism makes the monsters better.
... ...
Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com>
New Webcomic: Genocide Man http://www.genocideman.com/
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
Thomas Womack
Charles Combes <chukamo...@yahoonospam.com> wrote:
>"Nigel" <ncw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:cc447418-f87d-4d48...@30g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
>On Dec 8, 9:42 am, tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>>
>>> 50 Foot Woman (japan missed the boat on that one)
>
>>I especially like Pratchett's version of that
>
>I've read most Pratchett, but I don't remember this. What/where is it?
Moving Pictures, I think ... a giant woman carrying a screaming
monk^W OOK^W ape up the side of the Unseen University tower.
Tom
JimboCat
> tobymax43 <toby...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Is this cultural that with giant monster genre Japan has been so
> > successful or except for Kong and
> > Them no one really in the US tried. Lets forget the horrible US
> > Godzilla movie.
>
> American monsters are traditionally mutated and/or giant versions of
> normal animals. Japanese monsters are traditionally ancient spirits that
> serve as a personification of some theme. Godzilla represented the fear
> of atomic power and the US. In his second film, Godzilla and Angilas --
> a personification of the USSR -- fight over the Sakhalin Islands, a disputed
> territory claimed by Japan. It's all symbolic. (It's also not an accident
> that Godzilla became a 'good monster' at the exact same point in history that
> Japan and the United States became allies instead of enemies.)
>
> American monster movies generally do not go for symbolism. Which is a
> shame. I think symbolism makes the monsters better.
Two counter-examples of monsters with symbolism:
Forbidden Planet - the monster is a personification of the scientist's
id.
X The Unknown - my favorite B-movie monster: we never actually see the
monster on-screen, but, crap: wiki says it's a British movie, not
American, oh, well.
Once counter-example.
Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
"plagiarists repent, for the Lord hath a search engine." [Mike Lyle]
Wayne Throop
: I'm only thinking of one giant "monster" movie that I think was well
: done - _The Iron Giant_. Maybe I'm missing another one.
Symbionic Titan seems good to me.
Though of course that's not a movie, that's a series.
Hm. Also, the recent made-for-cartoon-network epic, "Firebreather"
seemed to turn out fairly well.
Of course, both of those are highly japan-influenced.
Seems to me I'm forgetting some. Well... the Powerpuff Girls
had lots of giant monsters, and was quite a hoot, but that's
CN influenced by Gendy Tartakovsky again. But I'm more thinking
that I must be forgetting some movie releases, maybe live-action
plus CGI rather than all animated. But can't call any to mind either.
"Now that you've met your father, you're probably
wondering how you were conceived..."
"No!"
"It's really quite simple, we..."
"<covering ears> LA LA LA LA LA LA LA..."
--- Firebreather, approx quote, protagonist's mother tries to
explain how his father can be a 100-foot tall monster
(an interesting case of lampshading...)
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
tphile
>
> - Show quoted text -
yes we do see X The Unknown on screen. as a radioactive blob
and thats a british Hammer film, starring dean jagger and leo mckern
so not an american
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Monsters vs Aliens is a recent US example with two giant monsters.
And of "War of the Worlds" though the source is British.
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
tphile
American monsters had their share of symbolism.
Frankenstein - Don't play God. and Bride of F had Christ on the Cross
scenes.
Giant ants and many others - the dangers of splitting the atom.
Forbidden Planet - We can be our own worst enemies.
Incredible Shrinking man - our place in the cosmos
Pod people and Things - Commie threat to our way of life
tphile
PeterM
> How quickly they forget Cloverfield, which made quite a flash in the
> pan, and has since suffered a backlash... perhaps I should get around
> to watching it..
I always had the impression Cloverfield was a movie about
people running around during a giant monster incident, rather
than a movie about said giant monster. I love giant monsters,
and I've never had much desire to see that one.
I did, for reasons I'll never understand, sit through the entirety
of a really, really bad Cloverfield ripoff that was set in Japan
and had some of the worst CGI tentacles this side of the
SyFy channel.
> Mighty Joe Young years ago had a not-so-bad remake for a not-so-giant
> ape movie.
A lot of the American monster movies were of the not-so-giant
variety, at least compared to the Japanese stuff. Them! had
some big ants, sure, but not friggin' huge. The Beast From
20,000 Fathoms was quite large, but again not mega-sized.
The monster in the BF20KF remake back in '98 was Godzilla
sized. I always wondered if that's why they misnamed the whole
dang movie.
Tremors is another example of a great monster movie with
relatively small monsters. Heck, they got even smaller in
the later installments but were still pretty cool.
tobymax43
>
> - Show quoted text -
There are no recent movies on your list. Japan is still making giant
monster movies and cartoons.
Also others mentioned Cloverfield. Another fugly modern giant monster.
I also wished there was more of the monster like in the Japanese
movies and less running and running by the group of survivors.
I would love to see good looking giant monsters like the Japan Mothra,
Ghidara, Godzilla etc. We Americans are too much into ugly = bad.
I also agree that the Japanese are more into symbols for monsters
then we are.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
PeterM <peterme...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 8, 4:28 am, Jack Bohn <jackb...@bright.net> wrote:
>
>> How quickly they forget Cloverfield, which made quite a flash in the
>> pan, and has since suffered a backlash... perhaps I should get around
>> to watching it..
>
>I always had the impression Cloverfield was a movie about
>people running around during a giant monster incident, rather
>than a movie about said giant monster. I love giant monsters,
>and I've never had much desire to see that one.
>
Yes, CLoverfield was definitely about the people. I thouht it was pretty
well done too. Enough character prologue to establish the characters as
self-absorbed hipsters, and then their rising above that.
DouhetSukd
whatsoever.
On Dec 8, 9:27 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
>
> >I always had the impression Cloverfield was a movie about
> >people running around during a giant monster incident, rather
> >than a movie about said giant monster. I love giant monsters,
> >and I've never had much desire to see that one.
>
> Yes, CLoverfield was definitely about the people. I thouht it was pretty
> well done too. Enough character prologue to establish the characters as
> self-absorbed hipsters, and then their rising above that.
>
Agreed. While it wasn't, quite, the second coming of celluloid art,
Cloverfield was quite decent, for exactly the reasons you mention.
Besides, in a horror flick, if you see the monster too much, you
become blase about it. I even liked the minicam idea, even if that
was from Blair Witch. And it had a nice Lovecraftian feel to it as
well.
I would also nominate The Mist, an adaptation of Stephen King's short
story, also Lovecraftian (he's stated HPL was an influence).
And there is always Mega Shark vs. Giant Octopus. Can't beat that for
fromage:
tphile
>
> - Show quoted text -
The topic is live action, not animation. Cartoon giant monsters are a
whole different catagory
including Hanna Barbera Super Heroes and villians.
Same with comics from Starro to Where Monsters Dwell to Fin Fang Foom.
My listing was not meant to be comprehensive, just what I could
quickly recall to mind.
As for Cloverfield it can count but it has not established a time
honored legacy yet or franchise
possibilities. It was inspired by Godzilla but its design does not
have G franchise potential.
tphile
tphile
wrote:
> "Nigel" <ncwa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Dammit, I was trying so hard to forget that one too
as well as Food of the Gods
moviies only a MST3K would love
tphile
Jack Bohn
>On Dec 8, 9:37 am, Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>> American monster movies generally do not go for symbolism. Which is a
>> shame. I think symbolism makes the monsters better.
>
>Two counter-examples of monsters with symbolism:
>
>Forbidden Planet - the monster is a personification of the scientist's
>id.
...but is it symbolism if the monster actually IS the scientist's id?
--
-Jack
Jack Bohn
>Symbionic Titan seems good to me.
>Though of course that's not a movie, that's a series.
Ah, yes. She was wondering around as a giant Marylin Monroe, wasn't
she? Alas, at that point the series had lost its way (was Varley in
Hollywood at the time for that "Air Raid"/_Millennium_ thing?) Her
treatment of the beings she created inside of herself should have been
contrasted with (what at least seemed obvious to me) the fact that
she, herself was some type of engineered lifeform.
> "Now that you've met your father, you're probably
> wondering how you were conceived..."
> "No!"
> "It's really quite simple, we..."
> "<covering ears> LA LA LA LA LA LA LA..."
>
> --- Firebreather, approx quote, protagonist's mother tries to
> explain how his father can be a 100-foot tall monster
> (an interesting case of lampshading...)
Ah. Like the old joke: How could Godzilla have a son? She adopted.
--
-Jack
Charles Combes
news:30e12a8d-c7f2-4794...@r40g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
I enjoyed Cloverfield, but I would have liked to see more monster vs.
military action.
Another one not yet mentioned is Eight Legged Freaks. I thought that was
very entertaining. For me, it had just the right mix of comedy and
suspense.
I thought the Koreans did a fairly good job with The Host, though some of
the characters were very unlikable.
Nigel
wrote:
> In article <ido4v4$1d7...@news.ett.com.ua>,
>
> Charles Combes <chukamoknos...@yahoonospam.com> wrote:
> >"Nigel" <ncwa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:cc447418-f87d-4d48...@30g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
> >On Dec 8, 9:42 am, tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> >>> 50 Foot Woman (japan missed the boat on that one)
>
> >>I especially like Pratchett's version of that
>
> >I've read most Pratchett, but I don't remember this. What/where is it?
>
> Moving Pictures, I think ... a giant woman carrying a screaming
> monk^W OOK^W ape up the side of the Unseen University tower.
>
Yes, that's the one.
The German group "Wir sind Helden" also did a version of this in the
video for their song "Panik" - See http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/2022172390
Cheers,
Nigel.
David DeLaney
>JimboCat wrote:
>>Forbidden Planet - the monster is a personification of the scientist's id.
>
>...but is it symbolism if the monster actually IS the scientist's id?
Sure - the best symbol for a sharp knife is a sharp knife, after all.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Michael Stemper
>Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>>JimboCat wrote:
>>>Forbidden Planet - the monster is a personification of the scientist's id.
>>
>>...but is it symbolism if the monster actually IS the scientist's id?
>
>Sure - the best symbol for a sharp knife is a sharp knife, after all.
But, sometimes a pipe is just a pipe.
"Ceci n'est pas une pipe".
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
There is three erors in this sentence.
Remus Shepherd
> Wayne Throop wrote:
> >Symbionic Titan seems good to me.
> >Though of course that's not a movie, that's a series.
> Ah, yes. She was wondering around as a giant Marylin Monroe, wasn't
> she? Alas, at that point the series had lost its way (was Varley in
> Hollywood at the time for that "Air Raid"/_Millennium_ thing?) Her
> treatment of the beings she created inside of herself should have been
> contrasted with (what at least seemed obvious to me) the fact that
> she, herself was some type of engineered lifeform.
Wow. I visualized a frisson of the teenage princess from the cartoon
_Symbiotic Titan_ doing those things that Gaea from Varley's _Titan_ did.
Needless to say, I should now wash my mind out with soap.
It does beg the question: With everything anime has given us, why have
they never depicted six-way alien centaur sex?
John F. Eldredge
> Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>> Wayne Throop wrote:
>> >Symbionic Titan seems good to me.
>> >Though of course that's not a movie, that's a series.
>
>> Ah, yes. She was wondering around as a giant Marylin Monroe, wasn't
>> she? Alas, at that point the series had lost its way (was Varley in
>> Hollywood at the time for that "Air Raid"/_Millennium_ thing?) Her
>> treatment of the beings she created inside of herself should have been
>> contrasted with (what at least seemed obvious to me) the fact that she,
>> herself was some type of engineered lifeform.
>
> Wow. I visualized a frisson of the teenage princess from the cartoon
> _Symbiotic Titan_ doing those things that Gaea from Varley's _Titan_
> did. Needless to say, I should now wash my mind out with soap.
>
> It does beg the question: With everything anime has given us, why
> have
> they never depicted six-way alien centaur sex?
Given Rule 34, there probably is some out there somewhere on the
Internet. I will let you be the one to search for it, however.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
tphile
> On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 22:42:45 +0000, Remus Shepherd wrote:
> > Jack Bohn <jackb...@bright.net> wrote:
> >> Wayne Throop wrote:
> >> >Symbionic Titan seems good to me.
> >> >Though of course that's not a movie, that's a series.
>
> >> Ah, yes. She was wondering around as a giant Marylin Monroe, wasn't
> >> she? Alas, at that point the series had lost its way (was Varley in
> >> Hollywood at the time for that "Air Raid"/_Millennium_ thing?) Her
> >> treatment of the beings she created inside of herself should have been
> >> contrasted with (what at least seemed obvious to me) the fact that she,
> >> herself was some type of engineered lifeform.
>
> > Wow. I visualized a frisson of the teenage princess from the cartoon
> > _Symbiotic Titan_ doing those things that Gaea from Varley's _Titan_
> > did. Needless to say, I should now wash my mind out with soap.
>
> > It does beg the question: With everything anime has given us, why
> > have
> > they never depicted six-way alien centaur sex?
>
> Given Rule 34, there probably is some out there somewhere on the
> Internet. I will let you be the one to search for it, however.
>
> --
> "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes there is plenty of that but there is also
in one of the later Wild Card books by George R R Martin
the joker clinic has a doctor who is also a palomino centaur and does
develop a relationship with another human character and iirc a doctor
and
there is a very graphic love scene with them working out the kama
sutra logistics
of it.
tphile
William December Starr
tobymax43 <tob...@comcast.net> said:
> Recently I saw Skyline (horrible)
Oh gods. You know it's bad when the _ads_ for a movie are so full
of badly acted cliched inanity that you find yourself entertaining
the possibility that it isn't actually a real movie at all, that it
would turn out to be some sort of hoax, or a deliberately bad
movie-within-the-movie in a film about Hollywood or something.
-- wds
William December Starr
JimboCat <10313...@compuserve.com> said:
> On Dec 8, 9:37 am, Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com> wrote:
I have to ask: what piece of demented software decided that a
plain old ascii space character between "9:37" and "am" wasn't
sufficiently cromulent?
-- wds
William December Starr
tphile <tph...@cableone.net> said:
> American monsters had their share of symbolism.
> Frankenstein - Don't play God. and Bride of F had Christ on the
> Cross scenes.
> Giant ants and many others - the dangers of splitting the atom.
> Forbidden Planet - We can be our own worst enemies.
Especialy when we don't read the fucking manual.
-- wds (and no, you don't get a free pass just because the manual is _missing_)
Jack Bohn
>Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>> Wayne Throop wrote:
>> >Symbionic Titan seems good to me.
>> >Though of course that's not a movie, that's a series.
>
>> Ah, yes. She was wondering around as a giant Marylin Monroe, wasn't
>> she? Alas, at that point the series had lost its way (was Varley in
>> Hollywood at the time for that "Air Raid"/_Millennium_ thing?) Her
>> treatment of the beings she created inside of herself should have been
>> contrasted with (what at least seemed obvious to me) the fact that
>> she, herself was some type of engineered lifeform.
>
> Wow. I visualized a frisson of the teenage princess from the cartoon
>_Symbiotic Titan_ doing those things that Gaea from Varley's _Titan_ did.
>Needless to say, I should now wash my mind out with soap.
Well, I'm feeling very Dorothy for not even *realizing* there was a
new Gendy Tartakofsky cartoon, but at least it all worked out for the
best.
--
-Jack