Marion Zimmer Bradley question
Catwoman
later works (including the ones which have her name alone on
them). I don't know whether this was the result of a franchise
decision, but I got the impression not.
Personally, the whole thing makes me vaguely queasy. The books
which were produced almost all sucked, so basically what we have
is a bunch of inferior material (not that the original MZB was
exactly Faulkner, but she did have her good points) foisted on
the public under a false name in the hopes of making more money.
I think something similar is happening with Anne McCaffrey,
although at least some of her newer books do have the co-
author's name on them.
--Kyri
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
WillReich
all by her, some not even at all by her, is not without
precedent in her career.
_Hunters of the Red Moon_ was almost entirely the work of her
brother Paul Edwin Zimmer. He got no credit at that time. He WAS
credited as a co-author on the sequel, _the Survivors_
I liked them both; I thought Paul was an unsung master. He was
here in '75 at the World Fantasy Con and some of us saw the book
he was working on then which got published as the two books of
the Dark Border series. I still don't understand why MZB would
take part in such a series of deceptions. I would guess that she
thought the actual writers as good and deserving as herself and
felt that her name helping sell the books was justified. This
doesn't work for me but she is gone so we will probably never
know the true reason.
--
Bill Reich
Hastur, Hastur and Carcossa
Lawrence Watt-Evans
>I think something similar is happening with Anne McCaffrey,
>although at least some of her newer books do have the co-
>author's name on them.
Huh? No, I know some of the people involved, and (a) McCaffrey
_always_ has significant input, though she often doesn't do the actual
writing on collaborations, and (b) if hers is the only name on it,
then she wrote it.
--
The Misenchanted Page: http://www.sff.net/people/LWE/ Minor update 2/18/00
My latest novel is DRAGON WEATHER, ISBN 0-312-86978-9
Tumler
Catwoman <ky...@usa.net> wrote:
> I have been told by a friend of MZB's that she did not write her
> later works (including the ones which have her name alone on
> them). I don't know whether this was the result of a franchise
> decision, but I got the impression not.>
> Personally, the whole thing makes me vaguely queasy. The books
> which were produced almost all sucked, so basically what we have
> is a bunch of inferior material (not that the original MZB was
> exactly Faulkner, but she did have her good points) foisted on
> the public under a false name in the hopes of making more money.>
> I think something similar is happening with Anne McCaffrey,
> although at least some of her newer books do have the co-
> author's name on them.> >
--Kyri
From what i have read of Mcaffreys work. Her books with coauthors have
a marked twist of plot and setting towards the coauthors genre.
She contributes with a deepening of character and scenery/enviroment.
I find Sassinak and PTB as good, if not better than the early Pern
Books. (Those have had a very long decline.)
Leif J
--
Both the Hazy mists of dreaming.
And the winking stars of Night.
Gives Shady glimps of Meaning.
And a glimmer of delight.
--
Both the Hazy mists of dreaming.
And the winking stars of Night.
Gives Shady glimps of Meaning.
And a glimmer of delight.
--
Both the Hazy mists of dreaming.
And the winking stars of Night.
Gives Shady glimps of Meaning.
And a glimmer of delight.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
J. B. Moreno
> On Mon, 22 May 2000 10:18:23 -0700, Catwoman <ky...@usa.net> wrote:
>
> >I think something similar is happening with Anne McCaffrey,
> >although at least some of her newer books do have the co-
> >author's name on them.
>
> Huh? No, I know some of the people involved, and (a) McCaffrey
> _always_ has significant input, though she often doesn't do the actual
> writing on collaborations, and (b) if hers is the only name on it,
> then she wrote it.
What kind of input does she have? Plot outline or is she acting like an
editor?
BTW -- nice to see you again (here in rasfw that is),
--
John B. Moreno
Tumler
> I have been told by a friend of MZB's that she did not write her
> later works (including the ones which have her name alone on
> them). I don't know whether this was the result of a franchise
> decision, but I got the impression not.>
> Personally, the whole thing makes me vaguely queasy. The books
> which were produced almost all sucked, so basically what we have
> is a bunch of inferior material (not that the original MZB was
> exactly Faulkner, but she did have her good points) foisted on
> the public under a false name in the hopes of making more money.>
> I think something similar is happening with Anne McCaffrey,
> although at least some of her newer books do have the co-
> author's name on them.> >
hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu
: Catwoman <ky...@usa.net> wrote:
:> I have been told by a friend of MZB's that she did not write her
:> later works (including the ones which have her name alone on
:> them). I don't know whether this was the result of a franchise
:> decision, but I got the impression not.>
:> Personally, the whole thing makes me vaguely queasy. The books
:> which were produced almost all sucked, so basically what we have
:> is a bunch of inferior material (not that the original MZB was
:> exactly Faulkner, but she did have her good points) foisted on
:> the public under a false name in the hopes of making more money.>
:> I think something similar is happening with Anne McCaffrey,
:> although at least some of her newer books do have the co-
:> author's name on them.> >
: --Kyri
A number of MZB's later books were produced by having Marion's outlines,
notes, character sketches, and such worked up by other authors. Not quite
a "franchise" but not quite a full collaboration either. The decision to
leave the cover-credit in Marion's name only was, I believe, the
publisher's.
On the other hand, if you're guessing about which books were co-written
purely on the basis of which ones you think "sucked" you might be rather
surprised at the actual breakdown.
--
*********************************************************
Heather Rose Jones hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu
**********************************************************
Jim Deutch
<8gebrd$e1a$3...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
>
>On the other hand, if you're guessing about which books were co-written
>purely on the basis of which ones you think "sucked" you might be rather
>surprised at the actual breakdown.
Probably so: another poster said it was everything after "The Heirs to
Hammerfell". I'd go with that but definitely would include THTH too.
I actually thought some of the earlier ones sucked also (can't remember
titles) but they still had an MZB aura about them -- just seemed that she
was straining to make a "point" and be more "PC" instead of just telling a
good story...
Jim Deutch
hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu
: I thought it was pretty well-known that for years, nothing under Bradley's
: name, 'collaboration' or otherwise, had actually been written by her;
<snip>
: I'm not sure about the Darkover anthologies; the first stroke was in 1989
: and pretty much killed her ability to write at any length, and about half
: the anthologies were done after that, with a story or two under her name
: in each one. Perhaps early on she could still manage short stories, or at
: least rewrite old scraps, or perhaps they were also written by others. I'm
It is an exaggeration to say that nothing in this period that appeared
under MZB's name was written by her. I have first-hand knowledge of this
because I worked for her magazine for several years in the mid '90s.
What is true is that pretty much anything she wrote had to be heavily
edited to turn it into readable English -- in part because she couldn't be
bothered to polish things up beyond a very rough first draft, and in part
because she no longer had the acuity of mind to do so.
But the editorials and short stories that appeared under her name in the
magazine during the time I was there were all, in major substance, MZB's
writing. They were all, also, heavily edited. I know, because when I was
working there, I was one of the ones doing it. Sometimes they only needed
very heavy-duty copyediting; sometimes one had to deal with eliminating
repetitions, turning fragments into sentences, and fishing an identifiable
theme out of the prose and then making the rest of the work relate to that
theme. But the result was always based on her substance.
(The only thing that occasionally got her name attached to it in the
magazine that she hadn't actually written were occasional replies to
letters to the editor.)
Anne M. Marble
news:8gdcd1$sm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> From what i have read of Mcaffreys work. Her books with coauthors
have
> a marked twist of plot and setting towards the coauthors genre.
> She contributes with a deepening of character and
scenery/enviroment.
> I find Sassinak and PTB as good, if not better than the early Pern
> Books. (Those have had a very long decline.)
I think the idea of combining McCaffrey with a co-author is a great
one. Some of the pairings sound odd at first -- S.M. Stirling?! But
sometimes, combining two diverse authors "accentuates the positive and
eliminates the negative" in both authors. In fact, we could have fun
coming up with fictional McCaffery pairings and possible titles/plots.
(Can't decide between "The Unicorn That Sang Love at the Heart of
Pern" and "The Ship That Shouted Love at the Heart of the Brawn.")
I do wish she and a co-author would do more with the Crystal Singer
world. (Perhaps the Lanzecki story.) Anne McCaffrey paired with ...
Charles De Lint? (The music angle, you know.)
Have you seen some of the customer reviews of "The Ship Who Sang" at
Amazon? Sheesh. I know it's not great literature, but some of these
became diatribes about how they shouldn't be allowed in high schools
because of the sexual imagery. Come on! Do you think kids exposed to
Jerry Springer are going to be perverted by reading about Helga?
Gareth Wilson
> I think the idea of combining McCaffrey with a co-author is a great
> one. Some of the pairings sound odd at first -- S.M. Stirling?!
Yeah, it sounds like a joke. But the actual novel was pretty good, if you
don't mind the inane
I-witness-there-is-no-god-but-Darwin-and-Dawkins-is-his-prophet
ultrasociobiological philosphy of the bad guys.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gareth Wilson
Christchurch
New Zealand
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Steve Miller
Laura Burchard wrote:I thought it was pretty well-known that for years,
nothing under Bradley's
> name, 'collaboration' or otherwise, had actually been written by her;
> everything after Heirs of Hammerfell. And Heirs felt an awful lot like an
> old non-Darkover manuscript given a quick once over to sloppily turn it
> into a 'Darkover' book; I suspect by a hand other than MZB's, but I don't
> know. Rediscovery was written by Mercedes Lackey, the other three by
> Adrienne Martine-Barnes.
A careful look at copyright pages and dedications in some post 1990 MZB
books will help with figuring out who the actual writers were. The issue of
"truth in advertising" in regard to actual authorship of books is one that
periodically raises hackles within the writing community. It is a major shame
of the sf/fantasy field that some fine writers have been relegated to
sharecropping, actual franchises like Star Swars and Star Trek aside.
Steve
--
Steve Miller -- co-author of the Liaden Universe
Buy Partners in Necessity at fine sf shops
http://www.korval.com/liad.htm
Dan Goodman
Gareth Wilson <gr...@ext.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>"Anne M. Marble" wrote:
>
>> I think the idea of combining McCaffrey with a co-author is a great
>> one. Some of the pairings sound odd at first -- S.M. Stirling?!
>
>Yeah, it sounds like a joke. But the actual novel was pretty good, if you
>don't mind the inane
>I-witness-there-is-no-god-but-Darwin-and-Dawkins-is-his-prophet
The original _short story_ was very good. The other short stories in the
series -- which were then assembled, with the original, into the _novel_,
were okay but not nearly as good.
--
Dan Goodman
dsg...@visi.com
http://www.visi.com/~dsgood/index.html
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.
David Given
"Anne M. Marble" <ama...@abs.net> writes:
[...]
> I think the idea of combining McCaffrey with a co-author is a great
> sometimes, combining two diverse authors "accentuates the positive and
> eliminates the negative" in both authors.
Of course, sometimes they suck. Really badly. I recently read _Nimisha's
Ship_ (it was in the library, okay?), by McCaffrey and <mumble>. The first
third wasn't too bad; the setting was quite interesting and it was
obviously setting up the plot. But then it just... stopped. Nothing else
happened for the rest of the book. The heralded plot just didn't show up.
Talk about tacky.
> I do wish she and a co-author would do more with the Crystal Singer
> world. (Perhaps the Lanzecki story.) Anne McCaffrey paired with ...
> Charles De Lint? (The music angle, you know.)
John Norman?
--
+- David Given ---------------McQ-+ "When an irresistable force meets an
| Work: d...@tao-group.com | immovable object, the result is a family
| Play: dgi...@iname.com | fight." --- Diana Wynne Jones, _Archer's
+- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ Goon_
LHeilb8013
>> world. (Perhaps the Lanzecki story.) Anne McCaffrey paired with ...
>> Charles De Lint? (The music angle, you know.)
>
>John Norman?
" Killisandra Unchained!!"
Lloyd Heilbrunn
Joe Mason
*Un*chained? That's not the Norman I know by reputation...
Joe
Justin Bacon
writes:
>A careful look at copyright pages and dedications in some post 1990 MZB
>books will help with figuring out who the actual writers were. The issue of
>"truth in advertising" in regard to actual authorship of books is one that
>periodically raises hackles within the writing community. It is a major shame
>of the sf/fantasy field that some fine writers have been relegated to
>sharecropping, actual franchises like Star Swars and Star Trek aside.
Hey, if it worked for Dumas... ;)
Justin Bacon
tr...@prairie.lakes.com
Eric D. Berge
"Anne M. Marble" wrote:
> I think the idea of combining McCaffrey with a co-author is a great
> one. Some of the pairings sound odd at first -- S.M. Stirling?! But
> sometimes, combining two diverse authors "accentuates the positive and
> eliminates the negative" in both authors.
Anne McCaffrey/John Norman - "Dragonriders of Gor"?
--
Eric Berge
---------------------------------------------------
Clay lies still, but blood's a rover
Breath's a ware that will not keep
Up, lad! When the journey's over
There'll be time enough to sleep.
- A.E.Housman, "Reveille"
---------------------------------------------------
Joe Mason
>
>> I think the idea of combining McCaffrey with a co-author is a great
>> one. Some of the pairings sound odd at first -- S.M. Stirling?! But
>> sometimes, combining two diverse authors "accentuates the positive and
Hey, what's the actual origin of this phrase? Is it just one of those common
things that entered the language from no particular source?
The reason I ask is I just got "The Very Best of Dr. John" yesterday. Woo.
Now there's some fine music.
Joe
Jay Random
>
> >"Anne M. Marble" wrote:
> >
> >> I think the idea of combining McCaffrey with a co-author is a great
> >> one. Some of the pairings sound odd at first -- S.M. Stirling?! But
> >> sometimes, combining two diverse authors "accentuates the positive and
>
> Hey, what's the actual origin of this phrase? Is it just one of those common
> things that entered the language from no particular source?
AFAIK, the phrase originated with the song.
Chris Wesling
I had the impression the phrase in the song was taken from a popular
self-help book around the time the song was written, but I couldn't
tell you who the author was.
Chris W.
--
Remove spam to email me.
"I played poker with Tarot cards last night. I got a full house
and four people died." - Steven Wright
Bill Westfield
A long time ago, the April Fool's issue of the SF-Lovers digest contained
a review of an non-existant collaboration between MZB (hey, on topic!) and
Robert Forward. Seems they got all the Male Chauvinist Pigs on Darkover
together and the resulting gravitational anomaly (there being so many of
them, after all) was explained in detail by N pages of tensor calculus.
IIRC, the guilty party was Chuck Hedrick...
I wonder if I've got a copy somewhere readable?
BillW
--
(remove spam food from return address)
Dorothy J Heydt
Bill Westfield <bi...@flipper.cisco.com> wrote:
>[fictional pairings]
>
>A long time ago, the April Fool's issue of the SF-Lovers digest contained
>a review of an non-existant collaboration between MZB (hey, on topic!) and
More to the point, Randall Garrett's one-act musical comedy "Free
Amazons of Gor" really exists; I have seen it performed, and it's
a hoot.
(The argument: Don Wollheim discovers that his two best-selling
authors are MZB and John Norman, and decides that they should
write a collaborative novel that will make them all a mint. Both
authors protest, and so do their characters.)
Randall's widow, Vicki Ann Heydron, would have the rights now; I
wish someone would prevail upon her to have it published....
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
jbford
David Given <d...@pearl.tao.co.uk> wrote in article
<eaggg8...@127.0.0.1>...
> In article <RjHW4.915$JC.21...@news.abs.net>,
> "Anne M. Marble" <ama...@abs.net> writes:
> [...]
> > I think the idea of combining McCaffrey with a co-author is a great
> > one. Some of the pairings sound odd at first -- S.M. Stirling?! But
> > sometimes, combining two diverse authors "accentuates the positive and
> > eliminates the negative" in both authors.
The City Who Fought got me started on to Stirling - there's a hard edge and
humour that are not typical of McCaffrey's work. One reason established
authors find it profitable to collaborate is presumably to potentially
attract each others readers to their solo books.
> Of course, sometimes they suck. Really badly. I recently read _Nimisha's
> Ship_ (it was in the library, okay?), by McCaffrey and <mumble>.
Solo effort actually - I thought it was a pleasant enough read but it seems
to have been singularly unmemorable as I can't remember enough about the
plot to say whether I agree with you or not ( which implies I do, I guess).
> The first third wasn't too bad; the setting was quite interesting and it
was
> obviously setting up the plot. But then it just... stopped. Nothing else
> happened for the rest of the book. The heralded plot just didn't show up.
> Talk about tacky.
The Freedom trilogy is probably the best late McCaffrey I've read (and I've
read them all, sad isn't it?). I'm not totally convinced that it's quite
that easy to pinch space ships though....
--
Jenny
e-mail:jbford @ bournemouth-net.co.uk
LHeilb8013
I was trying to offset the Norman with the McCaffrey:)
Lloyd Heilbrunn
Michael Brazier
>
> More to the point, Randall Garrett's one-act musical comedy "Free
> Amazons of Gor" really exists; I have seen it performed, and it's
> a hoot.
>
> (The argument: Don Wollheim discovers that his two best-selling
> authors are MZB and John Norman, and decides that they should
> write a collaborative novel that will make them all a mint. Both
> authors protest, and so do their characters.)
>
> Randall's widow, Vicki Ann Heydron, would have the rights now; I
> wish someone would prevail upon her to have it published....
It's not in _Takeoff_?
--
Michael Brazier But what are all these vanities to me
Whose thoughts are full of indices and surds?
X^2 + 7X + 53 = 11/3
-- Lewis Carroll
Scott Drellishak
Michael Brazier <mbra...@argusinc.com> wrote:
)Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
)> ...Randall Garrett's one-act musical comedy "Free Amazons of Gor"...
)
)It's not in _Takeoff_?
Nope, nor in _Takeoff Too!_. Which reminds me: when is NESFA Press going to
get organized and publish _The Complete Short Stories of Randall Garrett_?
I'm making out a check *right now* to NESFA Press, and I'm leaving the
amount blank -- please reserve me a copy. Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.
--
/ Scott Drellishak \
| "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced." |
\ "Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness." /
Brom O'Berin
>>> I do wish she and a co-author would do more with the Crystal Singer
>>> world. (Perhaps the Lanzecki story.) Anne McCaffrey paired with ...
>>> Charles De Lint? (The music angle, you know.)
>>
>>John Norman?
>
>" Killisandra Unchained!!"
No, that'd be McCaffrey with Sharon Green ...
Brom
Dorothy J Heydt
I said,
>> ....Randall Garrett's one-act musical comedy "Free
>> Amazons of Gor"....
>>
>> Randall's widow, Vicki Ann Heydron, would have the rights now; I
>> wish someone would prevail upon her to have it published....
>
>It's not in _Takeoff_?
Alas, no, nor in _Takeoff Two._
Kevin J. Maroney
>Nope, nor in _Takeoff Too!_. Which reminds me: when is NESFA Press going to
>get organized and publish _The Complete Short Stories of Randall Garrett_?
>I'm making out a check *right now* to NESFA Press, and I'm leaving the
>amount blank -- please reserve me a copy. Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.
Are you volunteering?
--
Kevin Maroney | kmar...@crossover.com
Kitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction
<http://www.nyrsf.com>
David Given
"jbford" <jbf...@bbournemouth-nnet.co.uk> writes:
[...]
> The Freedom trilogy is probably the best late McCaffrey I've read (and I've
> read them all, sad isn't it?). I'm not totally convinced that it's quite
> that easy to pinch space ships though....
I've read the first two, waiting for the third to arrive in the library
(I've given up buying McCaffrey).
It's highly amusing comparing the original short story with the equivalent
scenes in _Freedom's Landing_. (The short's in _Get Off the Unicorn_;
highly recommended, actually. An interestingly varied selection of Early
McCaffrey.)
--
+- David Given ---------------McQ-+ "While I write this letter, I have a
| Work: d...@tao-group.com | pistol in one hand and a sword in the
| Play: dgi...@iname.com | other." --- Sir Boyle Roche
+- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+
Scott Drellishak
Kevin J. Maroney <kmar...@crossover.com> wrote:
)s...@nwlink.com (Scott Drellishak) wrote:
)>Nope, nor in _Takeoff Too!_. Which reminds me: when is NESFA Press going to
)>get organized and publish _The Complete Short Stories of Randall Garrett_?
)>I'm making out a check *right now* to NESFA Press, and I'm leaving the
)>amount blank -- please reserve me a copy. Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.
)
)Are you volunteering?
I have to admit ignorance about the labor required to publish such a
collection. What does it involve? I actually have quite a bit of free
time at the moment.
In other words: "Maybe"
Elisabeth Carey
>
> In article <392DCF48...@argusinc.com>,
> Michael Brazier <mbra...@argusinc.com> wrote:
> )> ...Randall Garrett's one-act musical comedy "Free Amazons of Gor"...
> )
> )It's not in _Takeoff_?
>
NESFA accepts volunteers.
Lis Carey
Katy Mulvey
>Of course, sometimes they suck. Really badly. I recently read _Nimisha's
>third wasn't too bad; the setting was quite interesting and it was
>obviously setting up the plot. But then it just... stopped. Nothing else
>happened for the rest of the book. The heralded plot just didn't show up.
>Talk about tacky.
My impression of it was that it was an outline or sketch of a larger
book that might have been fun to read. There was just a lot of
skipping over the details and speaking of things in broad terms
only.
- Katy
[followups set to rec.arts.sf.written only]
Paul Andinach
> In article <392BA7DB...@ext.canterbury.ac.nz>,
> Gareth Wilson <gr...@ext.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> > "Anne M. Marble" wrote:
> >
> > > I think the idea of combining McCaffrey with a co-author is a
> > > great one. Some of the pairings sound odd at first --
> > > S.M. Stirling?!
> >
> > Yeah, it sounds like a joke. But the actual novel was pretty good,
> The original _short story_ was very good. The other short stories
> in the series -- which were then assembled, with the original,
> into the _novel_, were okay but not nearly as good.
From context, the novel in question is not _The Ship Who Sang_, but
the collaboration with Stirling (_The City Who Fought_?).
Not as good as the original short story, but better than some of the
other novels.
Paul
--
The Pink Pedanther
Elisabeth Carey
>
> In article <51etisgt38kt31j8t...@4ax.com>,
> Kevin J. Maroney <kmar...@crossover.com> wrote:
> )s...@nwlink.com (Scott Drellishak) wrote:
> )>Nope, nor in _Takeoff Too!_. Which reminds me: when is NESFA Press going to
> )>get organized and publish _The Complete Short Stories of Randall Garrett_?
> )>I'm making out a check *right now* to NESFA Press, and I'm leaving the
> )>amount blank -- please reserve me a copy. Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.
> )
> )Are you volunteering?
>
> I have to admit ignorance about the labor required to publish such a
> collection. What does it involve? I actually have quite a bit of free
> time at the moment.
>
> In other words: "Maybe"
Basically, it breaks down into two parts: getting the rights, and
putting the book together. Getting the rights involves finding the
agent for the estate and negotiating for the stories you want to use.
A NESFA member who's local and has some experience with it could do
that part [I think, from the initial reaction to my mention of your
generous offer of a blank check:), we'd have a number of enthusiastic
volunteers. I'll bet we can even arrange that, unlike the
Kuttner/Moore project, you wouldn't get stuck with someone who then
decides to buy a house and move, and spend too much time doing that.]
Putting the book itself together involves deciding what stories you
want, choosing between alternate versions if any, entering the text
(either by scanning or typing), fixing typos, etc., laying out the
book in Pagemaker, finding cover art (again, something NESFA can help
with), and possibly either writing or finding someone to write a
foreword. If there's going to be variant text for people to notice
(there are two versions of one or more stories, for instance, and you
had to choose between them), an explanation of what you did and why,
in either the foreword or an afterword, should be included.
The Kuttner/Moore project has attracted a small crew of volunteers to
help with entering text, and reading stories and providing opinions on
them, etc., collaborating via a mailing list.
So, if you're interested...
Lis Carey
James Nicoll
>> Michael Brazier <mbra...@argusinc.com> wrote:
>> )Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> )> ...Randall Garrett's one-act musical comedy "Free Amazons of Gor"...
>> )
>> )It's not in _Takeoff_?
>>
>
>
Which reminds me: I UPSed a few people to you guys. Did you
ever open the box?
I can not for the life of me remember if I put air-holes
in the box or not.
--
"Sure, Len, just because something is old doesn't mean it's
engraved in stone. We know a lot more about entertainment now than they
did back then. Look at Lawrence Olivier! You think he was in any of
Shakespeare's original productions? No! They added him years later!"
Elisabeth Carey
>
> In article <392F164B...@mediaone.net>,
> Elisabeth Carey <lis....@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >Scott Drellishak wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <392DCF48...@argusinc.com>,
> >> Michael Brazier <mbra...@argusinc.com> wrote:
> >> )Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> )> ...Randall Garrett's one-act musical comedy "Free Amazons of Gor"...
> >> )
> >> )It's not in _Takeoff_?
> >>
> >> Nope, nor in _Takeoff Too!_. Which reminds me: when is NESFA Press going to
> >> get organized and publish _The Complete Short Stories of Randall Garrett_?
> >> I'm making out a check *right now* to NESFA Press, and I'm leaving the
> >> amount blank -- please reserve me a copy. Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.
> >
> >NESFA accepts volunteers.
> >
> Which reminds me: I UPSed a few people to you guys. Did you
> ever open the box?
>
> I can not for the life of me remember if I put air-holes
> in the box or not.
Oh, is _that_ what that was, when it started out. By the time it
arrived, even Mrs. Skunk and her kits wouldn't agree to unpack it, and
we had to have it professionally disposed of.
You really should have put air-holes in the box, James.
<tsk, tsk>
Lis Carey
Phil Fraering
> Oh, is _that_ what that was, when it started out. By the time it
> arrived, even Mrs. Skunk and her kits wouldn't agree to unpack it, and
> we had to have it professionally disposed of.
>
> You really should have put air-holes in the box, James.
>
> <tsk, tsk>
>
> Lis Carey
I also have noticed over time you said you never got the Christmas
present I sent you.
I guess I shouldn't have sent it with that new "UPS Mule" service.
--
Phil Fraering "One day, Pinky, A MOUSE shall rule, and it is the
p...@globalreach.net humans who will be forced to endure these humiliating
/Will work for tape/ diversions!"
"You mean like Orlando, Brain?"
Elisabeth Carey
>
> Elisabeth Carey <lis....@mediaone.net> writes:
>
> > Oh, is _that_ what that was, when it started out. By the time it
> > arrived, even Mrs. Skunk and her kits wouldn't agree to unpack it, and
> > we had to have it professionally disposed of.
> >
> > You really should have put air-holes in the box, James.
> >
> > <tsk, tsk>
> >
> > Lis Carey
>
> I also have noticed over time you said you never got the Christmas
> present I sent you.
>
> I guess I shouldn't have sent it with that new "UPS Mule" service.
Probably not. UPS mules probably can't find their own pastures, at
least when they're carrying packages for me.
Lis Carey
Phil Fraering
> Probably not. UPS mules probably can't find their own pastures, at
> least when they're carrying packages for me.
>
> Lis Carey
Oh well. I guess I'll have to buy yet another copy of _The Crying
of Lot 49_... oh well.
Todd Larason
>I have been told by a friend of MZB's that she did not write her
>later works (including the ones which have her name alone on
>them). I don't know whether this was the result of a franchise
>decision, but I got the impression not.
(This isn't the best place in the thread for this, but the parts of it
that are still around aren't really on topic.)
Calvin Trillin's column in the June 2000 _Brill's Content_ mentions a
false advertising lawsuit filed against Penguin Putnam by a reader
named Isaac Kahan, complaining that Lawrence Sanders didn't actually
write the Lawrence Sanders mystery _McNally's Dilemma_, having been
inconveniently dead at the time of writing.
Given the presumably fairly long lead time on the magazine
publication, the suit may be settled or otherwise over by now; has
anyone heard anything more about it?
Elisabeth Carey
>
> Elisabeth Carey <lis....@mediaone.net> writes:
>
> > Probably not. UPS mules probably can't find their own pastures, at
> > least when they're carrying packages for me.
> >
> > Lis Carey
>
> Oh well. I guess I'll have to buy yet another copy of _The Crying
> of Lot 49_... oh well.
<contemplates the mystical significance of this, and whether or not to
provide Phil with the new address>
Lis Carey
Rich Clark
"Todd Larason" <j...@molehill.org> wrote in message
news:slrn8j1r6...@nano.priv.molehill.org...
> On Mon, 22 May 2000 10:18:23 -0700, Catwoman <ky...@usa.net> wrote:
> >I have been told by a friend of MZB's that she did not write her
> >later works (including the ones which have her name alone on
> >them). I don't know whether this was the result of a franchise
> >decision, but I got the impression not.
>
> (This isn't the best place in the thread for this, but the parts of it
> that are still around aren't really on topic.)
>
> Calvin Trillin's column in the June 2000 _Brill's Content_ mentions a
> false advertising lawsuit filed against Penguin Putnam by a reader
> named Isaac Kahan, complaining that Lawrence Sanders didn't actually
> write the Lawrence Sanders mystery _McNally's Dilemma_, having been
> inconveniently dead at the time of writing.
Interesting. In this example the publisher did include a disclaimer on the
copyright page (IIRC) saying something like "the estate of Lawrence Sanders
has chosen [so and so] to continue the work of Mr. Sanders." Unlike the
"Bradley" novels which include no overt disclosure of any kind.
RichC
Pete McCutchen
<jbf...@bbournemouth-nnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> > I think the idea of combining McCaffrey with a co-author is a great
>> > one. Some of the pairings sound odd at first -- S.M. Stirling?! But
>> > sometimes, combining two diverse authors "accentuates the positive and
>> > eliminates the negative" in both authors.
>
>The City Who Fought got me started on to Stirling - there's a hard edge and
>humour that are not typical of McCaffrey's work. One reason established
>authors find it profitable to collaborate is presumably to potentially
>attract each others readers to their solo books.
It's my sense that Steve was less established at the time than he is
now. It's also my sense that he did most of the heavy lifting, in
terms of the book-writing. At least that's the most likely scenario,
since I generally find McCaffrey overrated but tend to like Stirling's
work, and I thought the novel was at least entertaining.
--
Pete McCutchen
Phil Fraering
Seriously: I bought the book, but somehow during the Christmas
rush I never got around to giving it to anyone... and there never
seemed to be a good opening for the "UPS Mule" joke. I finally
pressed it home because the other people at work used UPS against
_my_ advice and they lost part of a $ 6000.00 package for the better
part of a month, and I was aggravated.
I had wanted to slip in other stuff, like "Well, I just checked the
UPS tracking number on the internet, and it says the package is still
on the muletrain passing through the Carolinas..."
Naturally, the best book for the joke is _The Crying of Lot 49_.
Unless there's also some sort of mystical connotation to the number
that I've missed?
David Goldfarb
Rich Clark <rdclar...@TRAPhome.com> wrote:
>Interesting. In this example the publisher did include a disclaimer on the
>copyright page (IIRC) saying something like "the estate of Lawrence Sanders
>has chosen [so and so] to continue the work of Mr. Sanders." Unlike the
>"Bradley" novels which include no overt disclosure of any kind.
For the last few "Marion Zimmer Bradley" novels (_Exile's Song_,
_The Shadow Matrix_, etc.) the copyright notice on the back of
the title page reads "Copyright Marion Zimmer Bradley and Adrienne
Martine-Barnes". I'd call that overt disclosure, comparable to
the Lawrence Sanders thing you mention above. I'd even call it better,
since MZB was able to choose her own successor instead of leaving
it up to the estate.
--
David Goldfarb <*>|From the fortune cookie file:
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |
aste...@slip.net |"You have at your command the wisdom of the ages."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |
Elisabeth Carey
>
> Elisabeth Carey <lis....@mediaone.net> writes:
>
> > Phil Fraering wrote:
> > >
> > > Elisabeth Carey <lis....@mediaone.net> writes:
> > >
> > > > Probably not. UPS mules probably can't find their own pastures, at
> > > > least when they're carrying packages for me.
> > > >
> > > > Lis Carey
> > >
> > > Oh well. I guess I'll have to buy yet another copy of _The Crying
> > > of Lot 49_... oh well.
> >
> > <contemplates the mystical significance of this, and whether or not to
> > provide Phil with the new address>
>
> Seriously: I bought the book, but somehow during the Christmas
> rush I never got around to giving it to anyone... and there never
> seemed to be a good opening for the "UPS Mule" joke. I finally
> pressed it home because the other people at work used UPS against
> _my_ advice and they lost part of a $ 6000.00 package for the better
> part of a month, and I was aggravated.
>
> I had wanted to slip in other stuff, like "Well, I just checked the
> UPS tracking number on the internet, and it says the package is still
> on the muletrain passing through the Carolinas..."
>
> Naturally, the best book for the joke is _The Crying of Lot 49_.
> Unless there's also some sort of mystical connotation to the number
> that I've missed?
Nope. I was just being silly.
Lis Carey
Rich Clark
"David Goldfarb" <gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
news:8gtb5h$33p$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...
> In article <hBdY4.213485$Tn4.1...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>,
> Rich Clark <rdclar...@TRAPhome.com> wrote:
> >Interesting. In this example the publisher did include a disclaimer on
the
> >copyright page (IIRC) saying something like "the estate of Lawrence
Sanders
> >has chosen [so and so] to continue the work of Mr. Sanders." Unlike the
> >"Bradley" novels which include no overt disclosure of any kind.
>
> For the last few "Marion Zimmer Bradley" novels (_Exile's Song_,
> _The Shadow Matrix_, etc.) the copyright notice on the back of
> the title page reads "Copyright Marion Zimmer Bradley and Adrienne
> Martine-Barnes". I'd call that overt disclosure, comparable to
> the Lawrence Sanders thing you mention above. I'd even call it better,
> since MZB was able to choose her own successor instead of leaving
> it up to the estate.
We've had the same discussion before so I'm repeating myself, but it's my
opinion that there's nothing overt about this at all. To a member of the
book-buying public, even to a serious fan of MZB, this Adrienne person could
be MZB's lawyer, or her business partner, or a grandchild to whom Bradley
wanted to assign proceeds from the novel as a sort of savings bond. I do not
accept that listing Ms. Martine-Barnes as a copyright holder constitutes a
public disclosure of co-authorship, and I sincerely doubt a it would be
accepted as such in a court of law. The copyrights to many, many works of
fiction are held by entities other than those who wrote them.
And while it may be a thing of wonder that the torch was passed in so
orderly a fashion, it stinks that it was done secretly, in the dark.
RichC
Simon van Dongen
>In article <hBdY4.213485$Tn4.1...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>,
>Rich Clark <rdclar...@TRAPhome.com> wrote:
>>Interesting. In this example the publisher did include a disclaimer on the
>>copyright page (IIRC) saying something like "the estate of Lawrence Sanders
>>has chosen [so and so] to continue the work of Mr. Sanders." Unlike the
>>"Bradley" novels which include no overt disclosure of any kind.
>
>For the last few "Marion Zimmer Bradley" novels (_Exile's Song_,
>_The Shadow Matrix_, etc.) the copyright notice on the back of
>the title page reads "Copyright Marion Zimmer Bradley and Adrienne
>Martine-Barnes". I'd call that overt disclosure, comparable to
>the Lawrence Sanders thing you mention above. I'd even call it better,
>since MZB was able to choose her own successor instead of leaving
>it up to the estate.
>
She *has* publicly mentioned her 'chosen successor'. Only it was
Mercedes Lackey, not Adrienne Martine-Barnes.
--
Simon van Dongen <sg...@xs4all.nl> Rotterdam, The Netherlands
'My doctor says I have a malformed public duty gland and a
natural deficiency in moral fibre,' he muttered to himself,
'and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'
Life, the universe and everything
David Goldfarb
Simon van Dongen <sg...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>She *has* publicly mentioned her 'chosen successor'. Only it was
>Mercedes Lackey, not Adrienne Martine-Barnes.
Well, ok...except just *who* is doing Darkover novels' under MZB's
name, then? (Hint: it's not Mercedes Lackey.)
--
David Goldfarb <*>|
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |"THEY ZONKED ME WITH ELECTRONIC SHOCK WAVES,
aste...@slip.net | I TELL YOU!!!"
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- _Prez_ #2
Matthew Malthouse
sg...@xs4all.nl (Simon van Dongen) wrote:
[MZB]
} She *has* publicly mentioned her 'chosen successor'. Only it was
} Mercedes Lackey, not Adrienne Martine-Barnes.
And did M Lackey say "Sorry, too busy. Own career y'know."?
Matthew
--
Ecce Eduardus Ursus scalis nunc tump-tump-tump occpite gradus pulsante...
http://www.calmeilles.demon.co.uk/index.html
Heather Garvey
>sg...@xs4all.nl (Simon van Dongen) wrote:
>
>} She *has* publicly mentioned her 'chosen successor'. Only it was
>} Mercedes Lackey, not Adrienne Martine-Barnes.
>
>And did M Lackey say "Sorry, too busy. Own career y'know."?
Considering what she's been writing lately, she might not
want to be too quick to turn it down. God, that Owl series stunk.
--
Heather Garvey | We who stride like giants across the
ra...@xnet.com | world and allow all the systems to
The Lady with the LART | speak, each unto the other.
http://home.xnet.com/~raven/ | -- Chad Robinson, BOFH
Jim Flint
obit here that immediately prior to her death, she was doing the final
edit on a new Darkover novel. (I got the impression that it was a
follow-on to the latest three, though I may have read too much into
it.)
If the last (latest) novel is to be released, when and under what
title? If not, we got to lynch someone there in the chain of command.
Peace -
Jim
In article <jlkim-20EE08....@nntp.bellatlantic.net>, Justin
Kim <jl...@nomail.tgg.com> wrote:
> All the questions of who wrote what aside, does anyone know if Ms.
> Barnes is planning on writing or has permission to write any more
> Darkover novels?
>
> I guess I'm in the minority of most of the Darkover readers here in
> that I rather liked the Margaret Alton books, especially after the very
> disappointing _Rediscovery_ and _Heirs of Hammerfell_ and the slightly
> less disappointing (but disappointing nonetheless) _City of Sorcery_.
>
> Justin
Justin Kim
All the questions of who wrote what aside, does anyone know if Ms.
Barnes is planning on writing or has permission to write any more
Darkover novels?
I guess I'm in the minority of most of the Darkover readers here in
that I rather liked the Margaret Alton books, especially after the very
disappointing _Rediscovery_ and _Heirs of Hammerfell_ and the slightly
less disappointing (but disappointing nonetheless) _City of Sorcery_.
Justin
--
Justin Kim jlkim atthingy nomail.tgg.com
Remove 'nomail' to send me email
Richard Harter
>
> All the questions of who wrote what aside, does anyone know if Ms.
>Barnes is planning on writing or has permission to write any more
>Darkover novels?
>
> I guess I'm in the minority of most of the Darkover readers here in
>that I rather liked the Margaret Alton books, especially after the very
>disappointing _Rediscovery_ and _Heirs of Hammerfell_ and the slightly
>less disappointing (but disappointing nonetheless) _City of Sorcery_.
>
But not alone - I like the Margaret Alton books myself.
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net, The Concord Research Institute
URL = http://www.tiac.net/users/cri, phone = 1-978-369-3911
The internet is overrun with little mice nibbling
away at the fabric of reality.
Nancy Lebovitz
Justin Kim <jl...@nomail.tgg.com> wrote:
>
> All the questions of who wrote what aside, does anyone know if Ms.
>Barnes is planning on writing or has permission to write any more
>Darkover novels?
I've enjoyed her Sword books--does anyone know if she's planning on
writing some of her own stuff again?
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
The calligraphic button website is up!
Pete McCutchen
<mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>> Considering what she's been writing lately, she might not
>>want to be too quick to turn it down. God, that Owl series stunk.
>
>I've never read any Lackey I liked (which is why I stopped at three),
>and when you combine that with her paranoia, well....
I'm not a huge fan of Mercedes Lackey (nor was a big MZB fan, come to
think of it), but I've got to know: "her paranoia"?
--
Pete McCutchen
DavidBilek
It's been a while so someone else will have to fill in the details and
correct me, but last time this came up I read quite a bit about it. Lackey
was convinced there were, like, assassins out to get her. There was
a bit about how a friend of hers named Pony single handedly fought
off a mob of the hooded assassins using naught but his cane and
natural prowess.
And so on. Investigating the details leads to the conclusion that it
didn't happen and was a bunch of hogwash.
You used to be able to find all you wanted to know about it by using
Dejanews, but with their usenet archive AWOL, no dice.
-David
J. B. Moreno
> You used to be able to find all you wanted to know about it by using
> Dejanews, but with their usenet archive AWOL, no dice.
Yeah, but who would have given them leave if they asked for it?
Anyway, did it have any connection to the "Last Straw" bit and the
reason why she stopped writing Diana Tregarde novels?
<http://www.firebirdarts.com/1mlstraw.htm> in case you don't know what
I'm talking about.
--
John B. Moreno
DavidBilek
I don't think so, but I'm embarrased to admit I couldn't read very much
of that page. I have the same reaction to Lackey's fiction.
If anyone is interested I found a page that has *some* info on the incident
I mentioned about the alleged threats and attack at Dragon*Con.
http://www.crl.com/~vanyel/misty.html
I dont think this is complete, but it should give you an idea.
-David
Laura Burchard
J. B. Moreno <pl...@newsreaders.com> wrote:
>Anyway, did it have any connection to the "Last Straw" bit and the
>reason why she stopped writing Diana Tregarde novels?
><http://www.firebirdarts.com/1mlstraw.htm> in case you don't know what
>I'm talking about.
Yup. It's an anonymous version of her version of the story. Other accounts
she gave at various times had people from Blackburg, VA, being the
murderous would-be Guardians following her, and that the FBI was going to
get them, and a while back when this discussion came up an accolyte popped
up and said 'it's okay now, the Bad Man was arrested for child porn.'
There was always a remarkable lack of names, FBI or police case numbers,
FBI agents or police officers you could call, newspaper cites, and so on.
Give the 'Pony was attacked' story was revealed to be complete fiction, I
and not a few others tend to regard the entire epic as probable fiction.
The initial story didn't seem completely unbelievable (there's at least
one well-documented case of excessively obsessed and murderous Anne Rice
fans) but it's not held up over time.
Laura
--
Laura Burchard -- l...@radix.net -- http://www.radix.net/~lhb
X-Review: http://traveller.simplenet.com/xfiles/episode.htm
"Good design is clear thinking made visible." -- Edward Tufte
Pete McCutchen
Moreno) wrote:
>DavidBilek <david...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> You used to be able to find all you wanted to know about it by using
>> Dejanews, but with their usenet archive AWOL, no dice.
>
>Yeah, but who would have given them leave if they asked for it?
>
>Anyway, did it have any connection to the "Last Straw" bit and the
>reason why she stopped writing Diana Tregarde novels?
>
><http://www.firebirdarts.com/1mlstraw.htm> in case you don't know what
>I'm talking about.
A quick Google search or two produced this bit, and some quotations
indicating that she'd been stalked by deranged fans. I didn't turn up
the debunkers, but then I didn't look all that hard.
--
Pete McCutchen
Pete McCutchen
>If anyone is interested I found a page that has *some* info on the incident
>I mentioned about the alleged threats and attack at Dragon*Con.
>
>http://www.crl.com/~vanyel/misty.html
>
>I dont think this is complete, but it should give you an idea.
"Fascinating," as Mr. Spock would say.
--
Pete McCutchen
sky...@drizzle.com
> Justin Kim <jl...@nomail.tgg.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>> I guess I'm in the minority of most of the Darkover readers here in
>>that I rather liked the Margaret Alton books, especially after the very
>>disappointing _Rediscovery_ and _Heirs of Hammerfell_ and the slightly
>>less disappointing (but disappointing nonetheless) _City of Sorcery_.
>
> But not alone - I like the Margaret Alton books myself.
As long as we're talking Other People's Darkover, what I want are more
stories about Marguerida and Donald.
Kylee