Unseemly Questions about the Children of the Lens

[No Name]

It's made explicit that the Five are the start of a new race. There's
Kit and the four girls. Does he impregnate all of them? Just Kat,
with her "more than sisterly" affection? If so, do the other three
girls get Kit and Kat's kids?

How exactly do you all think this is supposed to work?

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

I think it's pretty clear that Kit's going to be IT for all four girls,
at least for the early days. As time goes on, more Third-Stage minds
will be born. I would expect that they'll probably also bring the
Second-Stage counterparts together in the other species now that the
initial plan is over. No reason not to, and every reason to assist all
species from continuing their progress towards the Cosmic All.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[Cryptoengineer]

On Oct 7, 11:19 pm, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"

<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> On 10/7/12 11:10 PM, No Name wrote:
>
> > It's made explicit that the Five are the start of a new race.  There's
> > Kit and the four girls.  Does he impregnate all of them?  Just Kat,
> > with her "more than sisterly" affection?  If so, do the other three
> > girls get Kit and Kat's kids?
>
> > How exactly do you all think this is supposed to work?
>
>         I think it's pretty clear that Kit's going to be IT for all four girls,
> at least for the early days. As time goes on, more Third-Stage minds
> will be born. I would expect that they'll probably also bring the
> Second-Stage counterparts together in the other species now that the
> initial plan is over. No reason not to, and every reason to assist all
> species from continuing their progress towards the Cosmic All.

I have vague memories of hearing that the reason the series ends at
this point is that the <rot13>vaprfg</rot13> angle would make the
books unpublishable.

pt

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

Yep. He probably could've gotten away with it today, but back then, not
a frickin' chance.

It *is* implied that Kat could have a bit of a thing for her father,
but he would never even think of such a thing, so I think it's clear
that Kit's gonna just be very busy at first. Eventually Humanity will
produce more Third-Stage minds; it's clear that the "level" of all the
species was rising steadily throughout the breeding program and the
Children aren't going to let that backslide.


>
> pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <9sg478h64c012t27s...@4ax.com>,

Smith couldn't *say* so at the time of publication, but yes, Kit
is supposed to sire children on all four of his sisters. The
Children are not, strictly speaking, human.

But not for a while yet -- probably not till their parents are
dead -- because they're not ready yet: Mentor said so.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[David DeLaney]

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 10/7/12 11:10 PM, No Name wrote:
>> It's made explicit that the Five are the start of a new race. There's
>> Kit and the four girls. Does he impregnate all of them? Just Kat,
>> with her "more than sisterly" affection? If so, do the other three
>> girls get Kit and Kat's kids?
>>
>> How exactly do you all think this is supposed to work?
>
> I think it's pretty clear that Kit's going to be IT for all four girls,
>at least for the early days. As time goes on, more Third-Stage minds
>will be born. I would expect that they'll probably also bring the
>Second-Stage counterparts together in the other species now that the
>initial plan is over. No reason not to, and every reason to assist all
>species from continuing their progress towards the Cosmic All.

Note that it's explicitly stated in the series that the Five's Lenses show,
among other things, their genetic lines/genes, and that they all contain
no defective, recessive, or otherwise bad genes at all. The conclusion, "so
crossing any two of them wouldn't cause problems", wasn't stated there, it
was an earlier more prudish age...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[JRStern]

On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 23:10:45 -0400, No Name <No_...@noname.com>
wrote:

better than doing it with Nadreck.

J.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <n3b678llsdvu13bhj...@4ax.com>,

Once you've gone Palainian
There's no more complainian.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Robert Carnegie]

Uh, psychically?

However Adam and Eve did it?

[Walter Bushell]

In article <slrnk7690...@gatekeeper.vic.com>,

d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:

> Note that it's explicitly stated in the series that the Five's Lenses show,
> among other things, their genetic lines/genes, and that they all contain
> no defective, recessive, or otherwise bad genes at all. The conclusion, "so
> crossing any two of them wouldn't cause problems", wasn't stated there, it
> was an earlier more prudish age...
>
> Dave

Yes, a good reading of Mentor's statement about their reproductive
future revealed the future. Of course not all recessive genes are
harmful.

--
This space unintentionally left blank.

[Louann Miller]

Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote in news:proto-6D8DD2.08160309102012
@news.panix.com:

> Yes, a good reading of Mentor's statement about their reproductive
> future revealed the future. Of course not all recessive genes are
> harmful.

Not to mention that as redheads, all five of them sport a very visible
recessive gene.

[ba...@dontspam.silent.com]

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 08:36:13 -0500, Louann Miller <loua...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Except that the Samms line has had red hair since the time the first
amoeba combed its hair so presumably it is not recessive, it is
dominant.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <k4uhlb$oci$1...@dont-email.me>, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> writes:
>On 10/8/12 8:22 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>> On Oct 7, 11:19 pm, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/7/12 11:10 PM, No Name wrote:

>>>> It's made explicit that the Five are the start of a new race. There's
>>>> Kit and the four girls. Does he impregnate all of them? Just Kat,
>>>> with her "more than sisterly" affection?

Huh. I recognize the phrase, but never really thought about its implications.

>>>> If so, do the other three
>>>> girls get Kit and Kat's kids?
>>>
>>>> How exactly do you all think this is supposed to work?
>>>
>>> I think it's pretty clear that Kit's going to be IT for all four girls,
>>> at least for the early days. As time goes on, more Third-Stage minds
>>> will be born. I would expect that they'll probably also bring the
>>> Second-Stage counterparts together in the other species now that the
>>> initial plan is over. No reason not to, and every reason to assist all
>>> species from continuing their progress towards the Cosmic All.
>>
>> I have vague memories of hearing that the reason the series ends at
>> this point is that the <rot13>vaprfg</rot13> angle would make the
>> books unpublishable.

Given the context of discussion, I hardly think that that particular
word was much of a spoiler.

> Yep. He probably could've gotten away with it today, but back then, not
>a frickin' chance.

Heinlein certainly did his share for knocking down this topic as a taboo
for written SF. Especially when it involved super-intelligent redheads.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <b2m878hrud47tfro2...@4ax.com>,

Either that, or it's recessive in the Kinnison line as well.

We note that no Kinnison ever married a woman with red hair and
golden eyes, but that doesn't rule out redheads with other
colored eyes.

Or maybe the Arisians just meddled with the genes. It wouldn't
be the first time.

Whether Smith knew that red hair is a recessive is something
we're unlikely ever to find out.

[Kay Shapero]

In article <b2m878hrud47tfro2...@4ax.com>,
ba...@dontspam.silent.com says...

One can see the Arisians installing a particularly visible marker gene
or two or so to help keep track, much as modern genetic researchers pair
what they're studying with green glowing jellyfish genes... speaking of
which wouldn't THAT have been entertaining? :)

--

Kay Shapero
Address munged, try my first name at kayshapero dot net.

[Robert Carnegie]

Indeed not. And anyway, the last that I heard, and I think they /have/
changed things since then, a "recessive" gene isn't even inactive,
necessarily, it may just has its activity overridden by the dominant
gene. Like, the "eye colour = brown" gene is dominant because it
masks any other colour. And the story seems to be at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair> that they left out your gene
for dark brown or black hair, twice.

And maybe there's a rare and recessive "no sweat odour" gene, but
no one managed to get it twice yet...?

On the other hand, a recessive gene probably just isn't doing the
job that it was supposed to do, if genes were each chosen for a
particular purpose, which, when the Arisians aren't involved,
they are not.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <MPG.2ade92843...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Kay Shapero <k...@invalid.net> wrote:

> One can see the Arisians installing a particularly visible marker gene
> or two or so to help keep track, much as modern genetic researchers pair
> what they're studying with green glowing jellyfish genes... speaking of
> which wouldn't THAT have been entertaining? :)

The Arisians don't need such help. Their mental powers are
incomprehensible to us normal humans and probably the gray lensmen, or
lenswoman. Apparently the Unit was a gigantic leap to a new Material
Manifestation Point.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <proto-B9D805....@news.panix.com>, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> writes:
>In article <MPG.2ade92843...@news.eternal-september.org>, Kay Shapero <k...@invalid.net> wrote:

>> One can see the Arisians installing a particularly visible marker gene
>> or two or so to help keep track, much as modern genetic researchers pair
>> what they're studying with green glowing jellyfish genes... speaking of
>> which wouldn't THAT have been entertaining? :)
>
>The Arisians don't need such help.

Indeed. Given that they were capable of predicting where individual
hairs would fall in a specific haircut five years out, keeping track
would be a trivial task by comparison. One possible to any moderately
competent mind.

[Dan Tilque]

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:

>
> It *is* implied that Kat could have a bit of a thing for her father,

And then there's the UST between Kit and his mother....

--
Dan Tilque

Human history becomes more and more a race between education and
catastrophe.
-- H G Wells

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 10/12/12 5:28 AM, Dan Tilque wrote:
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>
>>
>> It *is* implied that Kat could have a bit of a thing for her father,
>
> And then there's the UST between Kit and his mother....
>

Indeed. Not terribly subtle, either.

[Wayne Throop]

:: And then there's the UST between Kit and his mother....

: "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com>
: Indeed. Not terribly subtle, either.

OK, who gets to make the obvious Tom Lehrer reference?

"Who is number one?"
"You are, number six."
--- Number six and the new number two

[Kip Williams]

Wayne Throop wrote, On 10/12/12 11:06 AM:

> "Who is number one?"
> "You are, number six."
> --- Number six and the new number two

"Who Onesy?"

"You Threesy!"

(They fall down on the floor, laughing and kicking their feet.)

"Again! Again!"

— The Teleprisoner


Kip W
rasfw

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <k591jn$rmr$1...@dont-email.me>,

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 10/12/12 5:28 AM, Dan Tilque wrote:
>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It *is* implied that Kat could have a bit of a thing for her father,
>>
>> And then there's the UST between Kit and his mother....
>>
>
> Indeed. Not terribly subtle, either.
>
>--
> Sea Wasp

Expansion?

I'm guessing Unstated Sexual Tension given the context, but if that's a
standard-ish acronym, it's new to me.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <adr11l...@mid.individual.net>, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) writes:
>In article <k591jn$rmr$1...@dont-email.me>, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>On 10/12/12 5:28 AM, Dan Tilque wrote:
>>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:

>>>> It *is* implied that Kat could have a bit of a thing for her father,
>>>
>>> And then there's the UST between Kit and his mother....
>>
>> Indeed. Not terribly subtle, either.
>

>Expansion?
>
>I'm guessing Unstated Sexual Tension given the context,

That's how I took it, not that I'd ever looked at Chapter 13 in that
way. I think that I need to reread the whole series in search of all
of the innuendos I'd missed.

> but if that's a
>standard-ish acronym, it's new to me.

I'd never encountered it before.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>

"Love goes out the door when money comes innuendo."

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 10/12/12 1:07 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <k591jn$rmr$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 10/12/12 5:28 AM, Dan Tilque wrote:
>>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It *is* implied that Kat could have a bit of a thing for her father,
>>>
>>> And then there's the UST between Kit and his mother....
>>>
>>
>> Indeed. Not terribly subtle, either.
>>
>> --
>> Sea Wasp
>
> Expansion?
>
> I'm guessing Unstated Sexual Tension given the context, but if that's a
> standard-ish acronym, it's new to me.
>

Unresolved Sexual Tension. The discussion between Kit and Clarissa when
they're basically alone for a considerable amount of time on Kit's ship
is... interesting if you read it with any modern reading experience
(it's completely innocent if you read it as a 11 year old in
1970-something, let alone in the 1940s).

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 10/12/12 1:27 PM, Michael Stemper wrote:
> In article <adr11l...@mid.individual.net>, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) writes:
>> In article <k591jn$rmr$1...@dont-email.me>, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/12/12 5:28 AM, Dan Tilque wrote:
>>>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>
>>>>> It *is* implied that Kat could have a bit of a thing for her father,
>>>>
>>>> And then there's the UST between Kit and his mother....
>>>
>>> Indeed. Not terribly subtle, either.
>>
>> Expansion?
>>
>> I'm guessing Unstated Sexual Tension given the context,
>
> That's how I took it, not that I'd ever looked at Chapter 13 in that
> way. I think that I need to reread the whole series in search of all
> of the innuendos I'd missed.
>
>> but if that's a
>> standard-ish acronym, it's new to me.
>
> I'd never encountered it before.
>

It's a very standard abbreviation in use for apparently sexual
attraction, often used in fandom; originated in the X-Files fandom but
quickly spread to others, so it's something over 15 years old now.

[Wayne Throop]

:: I'm guessing Unstated Sexual Tension given the context,

: That's how I took it, not that I'd ever looked at Chapter 13 in that
: way. I think that I need to reread the whole series in search of all
: of the innuendos I'd missed.

True dat.

:: but if that's a standard-ish acronym, it's new to me.

: I'd never encountered it before.

I'd encountered it as "Unresolved Sexual Tension".
Ah... I see there's a tvtropes page for it:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnresolvedSexualTension
Not to be confused with the University of Santo Tomas (in the
Philippines), or the infamous Universidad Santo Tomas in Chile, or
the University of St. Thomas (Missouri, Texas, OR Minnesota).note
Santo Tom s refers to St. Thomas. Or the file type used in UTAU
projects.

[Scott Lurndal]

"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> writes:
>On 10/12/12 1:07 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <k591jn$rmr$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/12/12 5:28 AM, Dan Tilque wrote:
>>>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It *is* implied that Kat could have a bit of a thing for her father,
>>>>
>>>> And then there's the UST between Kit and his mother....
>>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed. Not terribly subtle, either.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sea Wasp
>>
>> Expansion?
>>
>> I'm guessing Unstated Sexual Tension given the context, but if that's a
>> standard-ish acronym, it's new to me.
>>
>
> Unresolved Sexual Tension. The discussion between Kit and Clarissa when
>they're basically alone for a considerable amount of time on Kit's ship
>is... interesting if you read it with any modern reading experience
>(it's completely innocent if you read it as a 11 year old in
>1970-something, let alone in the 1940s).
>
>

Kind of like the bit in _The Tale of the Adopted Daughter_ where LL asks
EF or FF - couldn't figure that one out at 11.

scott

[Tim McDaniel]

In article <kh_ds.61585$VC5....@fed15.iad>,

Scott Lurndal <sl...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Kind of like the bit in _The Tale of the Adopted Daughter_ where LL asks
>EF or FF - couldn't figure that one out at 11.

I couldn't figure it out at all, except that the context was explicit
that it was something sexual so at least one "F" was likely to mean
"fuck". I had to be told at age 49 that it was US Navy slang meaning
"Eat First or Fuck First?".

--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

Same here. It was on Usenet a few years ago that someone told me what
it meant.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <k59ove$k8c$1...@dont-email.me>,

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 10/12/12 1:27 PM, Michael Stemper wrote:
>> In article <adr11l...@mid.individual.net>, t...@loft.tnolan.com
>(Ted Nolan <tednolan>) writes:
>>> In article <k591jn$rmr$1...@dont-email.me>, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
><sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/12 5:28 AM, Dan Tilque wrote:
>>>>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>>
>>>>>> It *is* implied that Kat could have a bit of a thing for her father,
>>>>>
>>>>> And then there's the UST between Kit and his mother....
>>>>
>>>> Indeed. Not terribly subtle, either.
>>>
>>> Expansion?
>>>
>>> I'm guessing Unstated Sexual Tension given the context,
>>
>> That's how I took it, not that I'd ever looked at Chapter 13 in that
>> way. I think that I need to reread the whole series in search of all
>> of the innuendos I'd missed.
>>
>>> but if that's a
>>> standard-ish acronym, it's new to me.
>>
>> I'd never encountered it before.
>>
>
>
> It's a very standard abbreviation in use for apparently sexual
>attraction, often used in fandom; originated in the X-Files fandom but
>quickly spread to others, so it's something over 15 years old now.
>

Those kids these days with all their hep jive..

[Kip Williams]

Michael Stemper wrote, On 10/12/12 1:27 PM:

> In article <adr11l...@mid.individual.net>, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) writes:
>> In article <k591jn$rmr$1...@dont-email.me>, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/12/12 5:28 AM, Dan Tilque wrote:
>>>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>
>>>>> It *is* implied that Kat could have a bit of a thing for her father,
>>>>
>>>> And then there's the UST between Kit and his mother....
>>>
>>> Indeed. Not terribly subtle, either.
>>
>> Expansion?
>>
>> I'm guessing Unstated Sexual Tension given the context,
>
> That's how I took it, not that I'd ever looked at Chapter 13 in that
> way. I think that I need to reread the whole series in search of all
> of the innuendos I'd missed.
>
>> but if that's a
>> standard-ish acronym, it's new to me.
>
> I'd never encountered it before.

Horniness at the holiday season. No-L lust.


Kip W
rasfw

[Brian M. Scott]

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 19:48:48 +0000 (UTC), Tim McDaniel
<tm...@panix.com> wrote in
<news:k59s70$lgn$1...@reader1.panix.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

I'd never seen it before and had no idea until this moment
that it was established slang anywhere, but I thought it
pretty obvious in context. Admittedly, I was already 25
when TEfL came out.

Brian