What would you like to see in SF?
lal...@hotmail.com
I would like to see the following in SF:
1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
a region of the universe.
2. A story about the World War 3 in which the whole of the earth is
destroyed and man becomes extinct.
3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
These are just some ideas I have. I am reluctant to write stories,
but hope that others will.
Al Lal
Kurt Busiek
> What would you like to see in SF?
>
> I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> a region of the universe.
>
> 2. A story about the World War 3 in which the whole of the earth is
> destroyed and man becomes extinct.
ON THE BEACH, Nevil Shute
Well, maybe not. The earth isn't destroyed, but mankind is definitely goners.
> 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
There have been a few of these, haven't there?
kdb
lclough
It's been done in the comics at least a few times, has it not?
(Wasn't Charles Xavier's off-world girlfriend involved somehow?)
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Recent short fiction:
FUTURE WASHINGTON (WSFA Press, October '05)
http://www.futurewashington.com
FIRST HEROES (TOR, May '04)
http://members.aol.com/wenamun/firstheroes.html
Kurt Busiek
> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>
>> On 2007-02-18 11:57:31 -0800, lal...@hotmail.com said:
>>
>>> 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
>>> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
>>
>> There have been a few of these, haven't there?
>
> It's been done in the comics at least a few times, has it not? (Wasn't
> Charles Xavier's off-world girlfriend involved somehow?)
She was the time I wrote it.
I wouldn't think that would suit Lal's needs, though. And the Galactic
Council's decision wasn't that humans were evil, but that they had an
irritatingly-Campbellian habit of winning, whatever the odds, so to
ease the disruption this caused, the Sol system would be "barricaded,"
humans would be confined within and Earth would be used as a dumping
ground for the criminals of the galaxy, which would surely keep them
busy.
This all turned out to be a scam on the part of the Kree, and to have
at least one major flaw in it: When up against a race with a
Campbellian habit of winning whatever the odds, it is not a useful
strategy to put them in a situation where the odds are vastly against
them.
kdb
David DeLaney
>Kurt Busiek wrote:
>> On 2007-02-18 11:57:31 -0800, lal...@hotmail.com said:
>>> 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
>>> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
>>
>> There have been a few of these, haven't there?
The recent "prisons in SF" thread mentioned some. Mallworld, Spin, etc. "evil"
may not have been the exact motivation, but aliens are inscrutable at the best
of times, no?
>It's been done in the comics at least a few times, has it not?
>(Wasn't Charles Xavier's off-world girlfriend involved somehow?)
Not exactly, for that one.
"...Captain?" "Yes?" "This world has faced Galactus four times in its
immediate planetary history ... _and beaten him back_." "WHAAAAAAT??2?"
<long view shot of entire Shi'ar space armada suddenly attempting to execute
a 180-degree turn>
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Butch Malahide
> What would you like to see in SF?
>
> I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> a region of the universe.
That story has been written, except that (SPOILER) it doesn't have the
happy ending you wanted. Edmond Hamilton's 1932 "A Conquest of Two
Worlds" is the story of Captain Mart Halkett of the Terran space army,
who goes over to the Jovians and leads them in their futile rebellion
against the evil Terran conquerors. Here is what Leigh Brackett says
about this story in her introduction to "The Best of Edmond Hamilton":
He became irritated with the stereotypical rendering of Earthmen as
heroes with a divine right to conquer other planets, where were always
inhabited by stereotypical nasty monsters. "A Conquest of Two Worlds,"
which appeared in Gernsback's Wonder Stories in February of 1932, was
a landmark story that made a profound impression on its readers. In a
remarkably realistic, bitter, and downbeat fashion, it questioned the
philosophy of the "Earthman's burden" and the rightness of territorial
wars, and it portrayed the aliens as sympathetic victims of aggression
rather than the brainless menaces of the "look-out-they're-coming-over-
the-rocks" type of thing which was so common in those days.
norrin
> What would you like to see in SF?
>
> I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> a region of the universe.
>
Evil corporation, good human traitor, successful rebellion
"The Word for World is Forest", Ursula K LeGuin
Except that the rebel aliens don't go off-planet.
Butch Malahide
>
> I would like to see the following in SF:
> 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
There must be lots of stories like that, but I can't think of a good
example offhand. Some misses:
J. T. McIntosh, "The Million Cities", Satellite Science Fiction,
August, 1958. We are permanently restricted to Earth, but it's not
because we are evil.
Milton Lesser, "All Heroes Are Hated!", Amazing Stories, November,
1950. We are restricted to our Solar System for the crime of
involuntary genocide. (A drunk starship captain wiped out a whole
inhabited solar system by coming out of hyperspace with the hyperdrive
running.) Earthmen around the galaxy are rounded up and deported to
Earth. However, the ban is not permanent; at story's end the aliens
are easing up and starting to let Terrans loose among the stars again.
Of course, there are lots of stories where the evil Terrans are not
merely put under house arrest but sentenced to death for their crimes:
Michael Shaara, "All the Way Back", Astounding Science Fiction, July,
1952.
T. P. Caravan, "Random Sample", The Magazine of Fantasy and Science
Fiction, April, 1953.
Ben Bova, "Stars, Won't You Hide Me?", Worlds of Tomorrow, January,
1966.
DJensen
> On Feb 18, 1:57 pm, lal...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
> > to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
>
> There must be lots of stories like that, but I can't think of a good
> example offhand. Some misses:
Greg Egan, _Quarantine_, also comes close.
--
DJensen
Gene Ward Smith
>
> I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> a region of the universe.
Yes.
> 2. A story about the World War 3 in which the whole of the earth is
> destroyed and man becomes extinct.
No. And it's been done.
> 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
No, unless something happens next.
Gene Ward Smith
> The recent "prisons in SF" thread mentioned some. Mallworld, Spin, etc. "evil"
> may not have been the exact motivation, but aliens are inscrutable at the best
> of times, no?
Sometimes even the wrong color of darkness does it for them.
Aaron Bergman
lal...@hotmail.com wrote:
> What would you like to see in SF?
Humanism.
Aaron (pondering a rant about the anti-humanist aspects of most modern
scifi and no wonder it's not selling so well.)
Joseph Nebus
>What would you like to see in SF?
More Clifford Simak novels. I wouldn't mind if they were
written by other people.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Nicoll
Please do.
--
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Butch Malahide
wrote:
I don't know that one, but there's a classic short story ("Written in
the Stars" by Robert F. Young) where the Galactics shun Earth because
they don't like the looks of one of the constellations in our sky.
Namely (SPOILER) the bright stars in Orion form the Galactic character
meaning "f*ck".
mark...@earthlink.net
> lclough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
> >Kurt Busiek wrote:
> >> On 2007-02-18 11:57:31 -0800, lal...@hotmail.com said:
> >>> 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
> >>> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
>
> >> There have been a few of these, haven't there?
>
> The recent "prisons in SF" thread mentioned some. Mallworld, Spin, etc. "evil"
> may not have been the exact motivation, but aliens are inscrutable at the best
> of times, no?
>
> >It's been done in the comics at least a few times, has it not?
> >(Wasn't Charles Xavier's off-world girlfriend involved somehow?)
>
> Not exactly, for that one.
>
> "...Captain?" "Yes?" "This world has faced Galactus four times in its
> immediate planetary history ... _and beaten him back_." "WHAAAAAAT??2?"
>
> <long view shot of entire Shi'ar space armada suddenly attempting to execute
> a 180-degree turn>
How well I remember that sequence of panels. Am I correct in
remembering that the bridge and its captain had a passing resemblence
to the Enterprise and James T. Kirk? :)
Douhe...@gmail.com
consciousness into a computer or a clone. I would like more stories
that deal with the motivations, interests and phobias of all parties
involved.
Some examples to let you see what I mean:
1. Walter Jon William's Voice of the Whirlwind has someone buys clone
insurance in case he dies. Problem is: the original does die anyway,
even if the clone can then provide for his family. So, how is this
very different from regular old life insurance? I guess your kids
would grow up with their dad, but still...
2. Linda Nagata had a story with consciousness duplication and it
mentioned the problems with re-combining a duplicate with his
original. Better - we see that there are problems with this kind of
stuff.
3. David Brin - Kiln People. The whole issue is, kinda, addressed by
saying that the clones get destroyed after 24 hours.
4. John Scalzi - Old man's war. Neat sidestep, as the hero learns
that consciousness/soul is unique. He is cloned, but his old body
"magically" dies as his soul is transferred into the new body.
5. John C. Wright - Golden Age. I am sure he addresses this
somewhere in the trilogy, as it full of philophical musings about the
nature of 'self'.
I'd like a story that just runs with the idea that personality
duplication would create a whole bunch of problems. And that it does
nothing to alleviate the pain and fear of personality termination in
the original.
Douhet-did-suck
Aaron Bergman
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> In article <abergman-598EB1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
> Aaron Bergman <aber...@physics.utexas.edu> wrote:
> >In article <1171828651.5...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
> > lal...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> What would you like to see in SF?
> >
> >Humanism.
> >
> >Aaron (pondering a rant about the anti-humanist aspects of most modern
> >scifi and no wonder it's not selling so well.)
>
> Please do.
Don't have the energy tonight to do a good job, so here goes a
disjointed crappy job. I just finished Tony Ballantyne's _Capacity_
replete with repeated statements along the lines of "everybody knows an
AI can manipulate you into doing anything it wants". I've now read
Vinge, Stross, MacLeod, Ballantyne, Wright, Barnes, Egan and god knows
who else, and I'm tired of hearing out humans are just not particularly
powerful computers out there in the vastness of space powerless and
waiting to be hacked. Not only is it getting trite, it doesn't make
interesting stories either. At least Barnes knew he was writing horror
with _The Sky So Big and Black_. (Or, at least I hope he knew -- you can
never be so sure with him.)
It seems as if the mark of seriousness as an sf writer is that you must
so firmly reject Campbellian exceptionalism that you end up revelling in
human impotence. It's not *fun*. Fantasy, in contrast, is almost always
about empowerment. It's about changing the world, while in too much sf
the whole point is the nihilistic futility of it all. Maybe it's all
true and the AIs or alien superintelligences or whatever will take over,
hacking our brains and taking away our free will, which, after all never
really existed in the first place, but I don't want to read about it
anymore.
There are other themes out there, dammit. Go find them. In the meantime,
I've heard that there's this farmer, and he apparently has some sort of
a destiny. If you need me, that's where I'll be.
(Next up: who the fuck thought the "New Weird" was a good idea?)
Aaron
David DeLaney
>On Feb 18, 10:37 pm, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 18, 4:01 pm, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
>>>The recent "prisons in SF" thread mentioned some. Mallworld, Spin, etc. "evil"
>>>may not have been the exact motivation, but aliens are inscrutable at the best
>>>of times, no?
>>
>> Sometimes even the wrong color of darkness does it for them.
>
>I don't know that one,
Possibly "All the Colors of Darkness" by Lloyd Biggle Jr.?
Butch Malahide
> Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 18, 10:37 pm, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 18, 4:01 pm, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
> >>>The recent "prisons in SF" thread mentioned some. Mallworld, Spin, etc. "evil"
> >>>may not have been the exact motivation, but aliens are inscrutable at the best
> >>>of times, no?
>
> >> Sometimes even the wrong color of darkness does it for them.
>
> >I don't know that one,
>
> Possibly "All the Colors of Darkness" by Lloyd Biggle Jr.?
Thanks! Now that you reminded me of that title, I found a copy in my
basement. Looks like I paid 50 cents for it in 1965 but haven't gotten
around to reading it yet. Five weird aliens decide whether Earth to
live or die, depending on the color of its soul? Sounds interesting,
I'll have to read it one of these days.
David Goldfarb
David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
>"...Captain?" "Yes?" "This world has faced Galactus four times in its
>immediate planetary history ... _and beaten him back_." "WHAAAAAAT??2?"
>
><long view shot of entire Shi'ar space armada suddenly attempting to execute
>a 180-degree turn>
Well, actually only a single battleship.
--
David Goldfarb |"Bagels can be an enormous force for good or
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | for evil. It is up to us to decide how we
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | will use them."
| -- Daniel M. Pinkwater
David Goldfarb
I don't recall that Cockrum *drew* him that way, but his *name* was
indeed "K'rk".
--
David Goldfarb |"Sunset over Houma. The rains have stopped.
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | Clouds like plugs of bloodied cotton wool dab
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | ineffectually at the slashed wrists of the sky."
| -- Alan Moore
Michal Jakuszewski
> What would you like to see in SF?
>
> I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> a region of the universe.
>
> 2. A story about the World War 3 in which the whole of the earth is
> destroyed and man becomes extinct.
>
> 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
Stanislaw Lem's Eighth Journey of Ijon Tichy fits the bill quite well.
David DeLaney
>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
>> Possibly "All the Colors of Darkness" by Lloyd Biggle Jr.?
>
>Thanks! Now that you reminded me of that title, I found a copy in my
>basement. Looks like I paid 50 cents for it in 1965 but haven't gotten
>around to reading it yet. Five weird aliens decide whether Earth to
>live or die, depending on the color of its soul? Sounds interesting,
>I'll have to read it one of these days.
It's not the only one in its series; I also know of Watchers of the Dark and,
I _think_, Silence is Deadly. Don't know whether The Still Small Voice of
Trumpets is in the same series or not.
Hmm, I _am_ typing through the magic of the Internet, aren't I? Hold on...
Okay, Wikipedia-which-knows-all reminds me that the Jan Darzek series
is All the Colors of Darkness, Watchers of the Dark, Silence is Deadly,
This Darkening Universe, and The Whirligig of Time.
Tapio Erola
> What would you like to see in SF?
>
> I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> a region of the universe.
_Babylon 5_, seasons 3-4.
--
The future has not been written. There is no fate but what we make
for ourselves. --Terminator 2
GSV Three Minds in a Can
person David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> said
>Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
>>> Possibly "All the Colors of Darkness" by Lloyd Biggle Jr.?
>>
>>Thanks! Now that you reminded me of that title, I found a copy in my
>>basement. Looks like I paid 50 cents for it in 1965 but haven't gotten
>>around to reading it yet. Five weird aliens decide whether Earth to
>>live or die, depending on the color of its soul? Sounds interesting,
>>I'll have to read it one of these days.
>
>It's not the only one in its series; I also know of Watchers of the Dark and,
>I _think_, Silence is Deadly. Don't know whether The Still Small Voice of
>Trumpets is in the same series or not.
>
>Hmm, I _am_ typing through the magic of the Internet, aren't I? Hold on...
>Okay, Wikipedia-which-knows-all reminds me that the Jan Darzek series
>is All the Colors of Darkness, Watchers of the Dark, Silence is Deadly,
>This Darkening Universe, and The Whirligig of Time.
Thanks for that, I didn't realise that there was more of the series that
I'd never seen (hopefully they are not brain-eater output?). Better yet,
thanks tot he wonders of print-on-demand I can actually get them...
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
7,627 Km walked. 1,352Km PROWs surveyed. 24.6% complete.
Jo Walton
> What would you like to see in SF?
>
> I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> a region of the universe.
Have you read Eleanor Arnason's _Ring of Swords_? It isn't precisely that,
but it's close. You might also want to look at C.J. Cherryh's _The Pride
of Chanur_ and sequels.
> 2. A story about the World War 3 in which the whole of the earth is
> destroyed and man becomes extinct.
And then...?
> 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
Spoiler! Heinlein's _Have Spaceship Will Travel_ comes close.
--
Jo
I kissed a kif at Kefk
Mike Stone
news:1171828651.5...@v45g2000cwv.goog
legroups.com...
> What would you like to see in SF?
>
> I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> 1. A story of a good human who turns
traitor to the evil human
> empire, and works with the good aliens in
winning military control of
> a region of the universe.
>
the whole of the earth is
> destroyed and man becomes extinct.
>
judged by a committee of aliens
> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest
of the universe.
>
reluctant to write stories,
> but hope that others will.
>
Well, 3 has definitely been done. Eric Frank
Russell's _The Case For Earth_ and John
Christopher's _Blemish_ will do for examples,
but there are undouibtedly amny more.
--
"It is so stupid of modern civilisation to
have given up believing in the Devil, when he
is its only explanation."
Ronald Knox
Will in New Haven
> What would you like to see in SF?
Whatever good stories that competent authors want to tell in an
interesting fashion. I like stories that go somewhere other than
inside the protagonist's head and I like stories that involve sex but
I don't so much anticipate plot elements as appreaciate them.
>
> I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> a region of the universe.
Ah, disgust with the human race, a common enough theme and
understandable. However, the idea that aliens would likely be any
better is wishful thinking. Maybe some of the early SF, with noble
humans conquering the galaxies and defeating monstrous aliens has
created this reaction or maybe it is simply justified self-criticism
on your part. You know that you can resign any time you want?
Not that this could not be a good basis for a story. It could be a
great story, of course, if it were well done.
> 2. A story about the World War 3 in which the whole of the earth is
> destroyed and man becomes extinct.
More of the same but this would be much more difficult to do as a
story.
> 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
Another one that could be done well, I suppose. The closest I have
read is in Heinlein's <Have Spacesuit, Will Travel>
where, spoiler space
spoiler space
spoiler space
The Galactic Council (may not have been their name) put the human race
on trial but don't deny us (note that I identify with the human race,
a common failing of us mere mortals) access. There's a lot more good
stuff in the book but it's a juvenile. And you wouldn't like it
anyway.
> These are just some ideas I have. I am reluctant to write stories,
> but hope that others will.
Glad you're reluctant to write stories.
Will in New Haven
--
"Pot-Limit has more thinking involved; young people can't think" Norm
Chad
> Al Lal
James Nicoll
Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
>lal...@hotmail.com writes:
>
>>What would you like to see in SF?
>
> More Clifford Simak novels. I wouldn't mind if they were
>written by other people.
Funny. A thinly disguised Simak turned up in a Dozois short story
last year.
Ilya the Recusant
Bergman <aber...@physics.utexas.edu> wrote:
>(Next up: who the fuck thought the "New Weird" was a good idea?)
Gabe Chouinard and China Mieville.
>Aaron
Ilya the Recusant
-----------------
"Asshole" has a special place in my childhood, the point at which I
first learned that typical Americans were assholes.
- C&J
----
http://ohilya.livejournal.com/
Mike Schilling
> Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
>>> Possibly "All the Colors of Darkness" by Lloyd Biggle Jr.?
>>
>> Thanks! Now that you reminded me of that title, I found a copy in my
>> basement. Looks like I paid 50 cents for it in 1965 but haven't
>> gotten around to reading it yet. Five weird aliens decide whether
>> Earth to live or die, depending on the color of its soul? Sounds
>> interesting, I'll have to read it one of these days.
>
> It's not the only one in its series; I also know of Watchers of the
> Dark and, I _think_, Silence is Deadly. Don't know whether The Still
> Small Voice of Trumpets is in the same series or not.
It is not. There is a sequel to TSSVoT, called The World Menders.
Dave Hansen
> On 2007-02-18, lal...@hotmail.com <lal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What would you like to see in SF?
>
> > I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> > 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> > empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> > a region of the universe.
>
> Have you read Eleanor Arnason's _Ring of Swords_? It isn't precisely that,
> but it's close. You might also want to look at C.J. Cherryh's _The Pride
> of Chanur_ and sequels.
Cherryh's "Faded Sun" trilogy might also fit, but it's been a while
since I've read it, and I don't remember if the human empire is truly
_evil_...
Regards,
-=Dave
ronincats
> On 2007-02-18, lal...@hotmail.com <lal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> > 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> > empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> > a region of the universe.
>
> Have you read Eleanor Arnason's _Ring of Swords_? It isn't precisely that,
> but it's close. You might also want to look at C.J. Cherryh's _The Pride
> of Chanur_ and sequels.
> Jo
> I kissed a kif at Kefk
YEs, the Chanur series would be a great example of a human working
with aliens, although I would NEVER, EVER even want to think of
kissing a kif. One of my favorite series re: both alien development
and world-building!
Also, to those who haven't ever read Lloyd Biggle, Jr. because he was
before their time, I second the recommendations for his series! Funny,
funny, wry tongue-in-cheek humor!
Rhonda
Gene Ward Smith
> > Possibly "All the Colors of Darkness" by Lloyd Biggle Jr.?
>
> Thanks! Now that you reminded me of that title, I found a copy in my
> basement. Looks like I paid 50 cents for it in 1965 but haven't gotten
> around to reading it yet. Five weird aliens decide whether Earth to
> live or die, depending on the color of its soul? Sounds interesting,
> I'll have to read it one of these days.
It's a classic, much better than the sequels.
il...@rcn.com
> powerful computers out there in the vastness of space powerless and
> waiting to be hacked. Not only is it getting trite, it doesn't make
> interesting stories either. At least Barnes knew he was writing horror
> with _The Sky So Big and Black_. (Or, at least I hope he knew -- you can
> never be so sure with him.)
You may want to read "Revelation Space" by Alastair Reynolds. No
uncertainty there -- someone has a data entity in her head (two
warring entities, in fact), she knows it, and it IS horrific. In fact,
large portions of the novel are classic horror. And in the end she
manages to beat them both.
il...@rcn.com
> duplication would create a whole bunch of problems. And that it does
> nothing to alleviate the pain and fear of personality termination in
> the original.
Frederick Pohl's "Other End of Time" trilogy. The purpose of clones
had nothing to do with happiness or desires of the originals, which
brought all the problems you mentioned to the forefront.
pan
Just for the record:
Some science in SF ?
Less characterization-soap-opera; more plot/substance/setting.
Techno-babble that is interseting or at least potent
enough to kill off those who have to tell the world
over and over that they hate "infodumps".
A virtual time machine that could transpose the SF
reading part of my brain to preNewWave-destruction-of-SF-
as-we-knew-it times.
Stop conflating fantasy with SF (note mostly for bookstore
shelf stockers).
pan
(yes I know some people say 'speculative' and I'm twenty
years sick of hearing it. Every story has speculation and
specifying a particular element and calling it a style doesn't
cure a lack of writing skill or knowledge of a genre)
((egads - I'm leaving a line of barbed hooks and I don't
even want to be trawling))
(((trawling - not trolling Arrrgh - that's another peeve
entirely)))
lal...@hotmail.com
> On 2007-02-18 11:57:31 -0800, lal...@hotmail.com said:
>
>
>
> > 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> > empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> > a region of the universe.
>
> > destroyed and man becomes extinct.
>
>
> Well, maybe not. The earth isn't destroyed, but mankind is definitely goners.
To make my story idea more unique, how about this: all life on Earth
is destroyed. Earth is the only planet on the universe with life,
therefore this is the end of life in the universe.
>
> > 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
> > to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
>
> There have been a few of these, haven't there?
Again, to make my idea unique: humans try to bribe the aliens on the
committee, and when that does not work, they threaten them. Therefore
the aliens decide that humans are evil.
>
> kdb
Is it difficult to come up with something that has not been done
before?
Al Lal
Kurt Busiek
> On Feb 19, 1:18 am, Kurt Busiek <k...@busiek.comics> wrote:
>> On 2007-02-18 11:57:31 -0800, lal...@hotmail.com said:
>>
>>> What would you like to see in SF?
>>
>>> I would like to see the following in SF:
>>
>>> 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
>>> empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
>>> a region of the universe.
>>
>>> 2. A story about the World War 3 in which the whole of the earth is
>>> destroyed and man becomes extinct.
>>
>> ON THE BEACH, Nevil Shute
>>
>> Well, maybe not. The earth isn't destroyed, but mankind is definitely goners.
>
> To make my story idea more unique, how about this: all life on Earth
> is destroyed. Earth is the only planet on the universe with life,
> therefore this is the end of life in the universe.
And?
That doesn't actually make ON THE BEACH fit any less well, because
there's no indication of the existence of alien life in it. More to
the point, though, it's an idea but it's not a story idea -- it's a
situation more than a story. You could write a zillion stories out of
that situation, each one wildly different.
I don't think I want to read any of them, because unless the story's
_about_ something else at heart (as ON THE BEACH is), then it's just an
"everybody dies" story, and I don't see the appeal.
>>> 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
>>> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
>>
>> There have been a few of these, haven't there?
>
> Again, to make my idea unique: humans try to bribe the aliens on the
> committee, and when that does not work, they threaten them. Therefore
> the aliens decide that humans are evil.
And?
> Is it difficult to come up with something that has not been done
> before?
No, but it's more important to come up with something interesting than
something unique.
I can come up with something that hasn't been done before fairly
easily. A Little Leaguer discovers to his growing horror that his
older sister is being sucked into the true conspiracy behind the Girl
Scouts -- they're really an arm of a conspiracy being run by telepathic
cats, and are used to deliver slow poisons or mind-enhancers to various
selected candidates in order to maintain the cats' control of the
world. When the cats realize that the boy has discovered their secret,
they send onother arm of the conspiracy -- the Ringling Brothers Circus
-- after him, and he's murdered by ninja clowns. But a special toxin
secreted by his blood is brought back to Cat Central by the ninja
clowns and it makes the cats stupid. Without their guiding
intelligence, mankind kills itseslf off in a series of ill-thought-out
Feces Wars.
That hasn't been done before (at least, I hope not!), thanks to me
slathering on enough unlikely elements to make it specific enough. But
it's also not very good.
A story about a tough detective with a broken marriage, exposing a
local priest as a murderer -- well, that's been done before, but if
it's written well, it's likely to go over with more readers than
CATSPIRACY, which has a certain daffy appeal, but is at heart pretty
dumb.
"Incisive," "clever" and "well-crafted" are probably more valuable
qualities to a story than "unique."
kdb
Sean O'Hara
> judged by a committee of aliens
>> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest
> of the universe.
>> These are just some ideas I have. I am
> reluctant to write stories,
>> but hope that others will.
>>
>
> Well, 3 has definitely been done. Eric Frank
> Russell's _The Case For Earth_ and John
> Christopher's _Blemish_ will do for examples,
> but there are undouibtedly amny more.
>
That Arthur C. Clarke story where Martians detect that we've
invented atomic bombs, and respond by forbidding us space travel.
The story ends with humans developing teleporters and beaming nukes
into Martian cities.
And of course the first episode of Star Trek: TNG.
--
Sean O'Hara <http://diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com>
These people are what social scientists call "wrong."
-Jonah Goldberg
Howard Brazee
<fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>I don't know that one, but there's a classic short story ("Written in
>the Stars" by Robert F. Young) where the Galactics shun Earth because
>they don't like the looks of one of the constellations in our sky.
>Namely (SPOILER) the bright stars in Orion form the Galactic character
>meaning "f*ck".
Which means about the same thing as the commandment to "Be Fruitful
and Multiply"...
Howard Brazee
>3. David Brin - Kiln People. The whole issue is, kinda, addressed by
>saying that the clones get destroyed after 24 hours.
Wil McCarthy wrote a story where people injected memories of dead
people in them, "becoming" that person until it wore out. The
protagonist was one of these - who wanted to find his murderer
quickly.
Ken from Chicago
"Kurt Busiek" <ku...@busiek.comics> wrote in message
news:2007021815330516807-kurt@busiekcomics...
> On 2007-02-18 15:12:36 -0800, lclough <clo...@erols.com> said:
>>>> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
>>>
>>
>> Charles Xavier's off-world girlfriend involved somehow?)
>
> She was the time I wrote it.
>
> I wouldn't think that would suit Lal's needs, though. And the Galactic
> Council's decision wasn't that humans were evil, but that they had an
> irritatingly-Campbellian habit of winning, whatever the odds, so to ease
> the disruption this caused, the Sol system would be "barricaded," humans
> would be confined within and Earth would be used as a dumping ground for
> the criminals of the galaxy, which would surely keep them busy.
>
> This all turned out to be a scam on the part of the Kree, and to have at
> least one major flaw in it: When up against a race with a Campbellian
> habit of winning whatever the odds, it is not a useful strategy to put
> them in a situation where the odds are vastly against them.
>
> kdb
>
How about scheduling a hyperspace bypass? Shirley that would work.
-- Ken from Chicago
Butch Malahide
<bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2:57 pm, lal...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > What would you like to see in SF?
>
> Whatever good stories that competent authors want to tell in an
> interesting fashion. I like stories that go somewhere other than
> inside the protagonist's head and I like stories that involve sex but
> I don't so much anticipate plot elements as appreaciate them.
>
>
>
> > I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> > 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> > empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> > a region of the universe.
>
> Ah, disgust with the human race, a common enough theme and
> understandable. However, the idea that aliens would likely be any
> better is wishful thinking.
I suppose that story has also been written in reverse: the earth
enslaved by space monsters, and a good space monster helps the
earthlings. The only example I can think of offhand is from a comic
book: the "Lost World" saga by "Thornecliffe Herrick" (Jerome Bixby?)
in Planet Comics, where Earth is under the heel of the wrinkled green-
skinned spike-helmeted Voltamen, and Hunt Bowman is leading the
resistance with his bow and arrows. In one episode, a good Voltaman--a
Voltaboy actually--sees that his people are doing wrong and helps the
earthlings escape from prison.
Mike Schilling
Silverberg wrote a novel in which people injected memories of dead people to
gain their knowledge and experience. The more intelligent and strong-willed
a person, the more dead personalities he could download without risking
either insanity or one of the other personalities becoming dominant.
philos...@yahoo.com
I don't recall that the humans were evil. It was just (surprise!)
that the mri and the humans have such different hard-wired world views
that they got caught in a vicious cycle. The mri believed in
one-on-one decisive battles, where the winner tended to be the one
left alive, and the humans were group fighters who only wanted to do
exactly as much damage as required to show the other side that they
should give up. So the mri kept throwing their people into the fight,
trying to get that final decisive victory, and the humans kept
fighting because they couldn't get the mri to come to any peace treaty
terms.
Rebecca
--
I've moved!
Formerly r.r...@thevine.net
Will in New Haven
> On Feb 19, 6:33 am, Jo Walton <j...@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>
> > On 2007-02-18, lal...@hotmail.com <lal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I would like to see the following in SF:
>
> > > 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
> > > empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
> > > a region of the universe.
>
> > Have you read Eleanor Arnason's _Ring of Swords_? It isn't precisely that,
> > but it's close. You might also want to look at C.J. Cherryh's _The Pride
> > of Chanur_ and sequels.
> > Jo
> > I kissed a kif at Kefk
>
> YEs, the Chanur series would be a great example of a human working
> with aliens, although I would NEVER, EVER even want to think of
> kissing a kif.
Your mercy and humanity toward somewhat unsightly aliens is noted.
One of my favorite series re: both alien development
> and world-building!
One of my favorite memories of that series is seeing C.J. at the World
Fantasy Con the year PRIDE had come out and asking her if she were
thinking of doing a series. Both the author and her agent assured me
that it was the furthest thing from their minds. Of course, they were
lying but I am glad that they were.
Will in New Haven
--
>
Ken from Chicago
"Kurt Busiek" <ku...@busiek.comics> wrote in message
> On 2007-02-19 13:01:33 -0800, lal...@hotmail.com said:
>
>> On Feb 19, 1:18 am, Kurt Busiek <k...@busiek.comics> wrote:
>>> On 2007-02-18 11:57:31 -0800, lal...@hotmail.com said:
>>>
>>>> What would you like to see in SF?
>>>
>>>> I would like to see the following in SF:
>>>
>>>> 1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
>>>> empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
>>>> a region of the universe.
STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE
>>>> 2. A story about the World War 3 in which the whole of the earth is
>>>> destroyed and man becomes extinct.
>>>
>>> ON THE BEACH, Nevil Shute
>>>
>>> Well, maybe not. The earth isn't destroyed, but mankind is definitely
>>> goners.
>>
>> To make my story idea more unique, how about this: all life on Earth
>> is destroyed. Earth is the only planet on the universe with life,
>> therefore this is the end of life in the universe.
>
> And?
Aside from "more unique" which is ... troubling, the answer is obvious:
UNIVERSE v2.0.
"Our story begins with the end of the universe--at least the one we
know--and covers the survivors who ... break on thru to ... 'The Other
Side'."
> That doesn't actually make ON THE BEACH fit any less well, because there's
> no indication of the existence of alien life in it. More to the point,
> though, it's an idea but it's not a story idea -- it's a situation more
> than a story. You could write a zillion stories out of that situation,
> each one wildly different.
The difference between narration and exposition. The former tells a story
while the latter merely describes a scene, circumstance or situation.
> I don't think I want to read any of them, because unless the story's
> _about_ something else at heart (as ON THE BEACH is), then it's just an
> "everybody dies" story, and I don't see the appeal.
Four words:
RISE OF THE MACHINES.
Five words:
GHOST OUT OF THE SHELL.
They aren't "alive"--at least not biologically--but they are sentient or
sapient or whatever term is in vogue this week. It's one thing for one
machine to become Self-Aware, but what happens when two, three, several do?
What happens when a "society" of machines rise up freed from their (former)
human masters? Do they replace human society--or create a society all their
own? Find out the answers to all these questions and more on:
CIVILIZATION TOO.
>>>> 3. A story in which the human race is judged by a committee of aliens
>>>> to be evil, and is denied access to the rest of the universe.
>>>
>>> There have been a few of these, haven't there?
>>
>> Again, to make my idea unique: humans try to bribe the aliens on the
>> committee, and when that does not work, they threaten them. Therefore
>> the aliens decide that humans are evil.
>
> And?
We watch the alien rebellion rise up against the human galactic empire in a
galaxy far, far too close to home.
>> Is it difficult to come up with something that has not been done
>> before?
>
> No, but it's more important to come up with something interesting than
> something unique.
>
> I can come up with something that hasn't been done before fairly easily.
> A Little Leaguer discovers to his growing horror that his older sister is
> being sucked into the true conspiracy behind the Girl Scouts -- they're
> really an arm of a conspiracy being run by telepathic cats, and are used
> to deliver slow poisons or mind-enhancers to various selected candidates
> in order to maintain the cats' control of the world. When the cats
> realize that the boy has discovered their secret, they send onother arm of
> the conspiracy -- the Ringling Brothers Circus -- after him, and he's
> murdered by ninja clowns. But a special toxin secreted by his blood is
> brought back to Cat Central by the ninja clowns and it makes the cats
> stupid. Without their guiding intelligence, mankind kills itseslf off in
> a series of ill-thought-out Feces Wars.
>
> That hasn't been done before (at least, I hope not!), thanks to me
> slathering on enough unlikely elements to make it specific enough. But
> it's also not very good.
That's because cats are too hyper-clean to be contaminated by ninja. Instead
our story begins with Minx Periwinkle, veteran tri-centennial secret cat
agent of the Grand Feline Foundation. She was the one who stole George
Washington's wooden teeth and jumped into a canoe lying on the bank of
Delaware River. After spending the past two decades undercover in the White
House as "Socks the cat", and later as "Willie the cat", Minx is alerted to
worst threat to face the world:
Ninja clown terrorists--from space.
A splinter group rebelling from the Cat / Clown Alliance, they seek to rain
down terror, death and alien rectal probes on an unsuspecting public. Minx
has to act to prevent the downfall of humanity as we know it in
CAT CLOWN CONSPIRACY
> A story about a tough detective with a broken marriage, exposing a local
> priest as a murderer -- well, that's been done before, but if it's written
> well, it's likely to go over with more readers than CATSPIRACY, which has
> a certain daffy appeal, but is at heart pretty dumb.
>
> "Incisive," "clever" and "well-crafted" are probably more valuable
> qualities to a story than "unique."
>
> kdb
Did I mention Minx seeks the agent former posing as a pet of the Furst
Family?
-- Ken from Chicago
Matthew T Curtis
>What would you like to see in SF?
>
>I would like to see the following in SF:
>
>1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
>empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
>a region of the universe.
>
Moorcock, _The Eternal Champion_
--
Matthew T Curtis mtcurtis[at]dsl.pipex.com
HIV+ for 25 glorious years!
What Mrs Whitlow had sewn together out of her dress was a lot more
substantial than a bikini. It was more a *newzealand* - two quite
large respectable halves separated by a narrow channel.
- Terry Pratchett
David DeLaney
>On 18 Feb 2007 11:57:31 -0800, lal...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>What would you like to see in SF?
>>
>>I would like to see the following in SF:
>>
>>1. A story of a good human who turns traitor to the evil human
>>empire, and works with the good aliens in winning military control of
>>a region of the universe.
>
>Moorcock, _The Eternal Champion_
And, swapping "human" and "alien", Moorcock, the Elric cycle. Though he wipes
out a fair number of humans in the process (and eventually all of them).
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Paul Harman
news:dDsCh.12779> Silverberg wrote a novel in which people injected memories
> gain their knowledge and experience. The more intelligent and
> strong-willed a person, the more dead personalities he could download
> without risking either insanity or one of the other personalities becoming
> dominant.
ObTV: Red Dwarf, "Holoship" (series 5 ep 1), where loser Rimmer is
mind-patched with 2 geniuses in order to attempt to pass an entrance exam.
As you can expect, it doesn't go quite to plan.
Paul