who inherits your ebooks ?

[Lynn McGuire]

Who inherits your iTunes library?
Why your digital books and music may go
to the grave.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-2012-08-23

Just another reason why I don't like ebooks.

Lynn

[slakmagik]

As if I needed more. But that's one of the best (worst) ones. Thanks for
passing that on. Shout it from the rooftops!

[Don Kuenz]

"Someone who owned 10,000 hardcover books and the
same number of vinyl records could bequeath them
to descendants, but legal experts say passing on
iTunes and Kindle libraries would be much more
complicated."

Stick with mpeg and pdf formats to keep busy bodies out of your
private property and affairs.

--
Don Kuenz

[William F. Adams]

On Aug 25, 7:25 pm, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
> Who inherits your iTunes library?
> Why your digital books and music may go
> to the grave.
>

> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-201...

>
> Just another reason why I don't like ebooks.

Just include you e-mail account password in an envelope w/ your will.

[Kip Williams]

William F. Adams wrote, On 8/25/12 9:45 PM:

Or buy only books, etc., without DRM, and save them to whatever storage
medium you regard as safe enough.


Kip W
rasfw

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Just another reason I don't like dying..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Lynn McGuire]

On 8/25/2012 11:16 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <k1bmub$g55$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>> Who inherits your iTunes library?
>> Why your digital books and music may go
>> to the grave.
>>
>> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-2012-08-23
>>
>> Just another reason why I don't like ebooks.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>
> Just another reason I don't like dying..

VBG.

Lynn

[Greg Goss]

PDF is a lousy format for ebooks. Stick to EPUB (or whatever other
favourite format you like) but only buy from unlocked publishers like
Baen.

My wife is slowly reading through my Baen list, which I keep on a
family-share folder in my dropbox.
--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.

[erilar]

In article <k1bmub$g55$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
wrote:

Well, considering the tonnage of books I have on my shelves, that may
not be so bad 8-)

I dislike the fact that it's so hard to lend them to someone. The
person you're lending one to has to be ready to read it right away or
the loan evaporates, whereas a real book can await the occasion.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <drache-76899E....@news.eternal-september.org>,
dra...@chibardun.net.invalid says...

I wish they'd either start pricing egoods like the disposable things
they currently are, or sort out a secondary market for them.

They don't want to, but they might not have a choice in the long run.
At least I hope there's a limit to crap consumers will take.

--
Juho Julkunen

[Rod Speed]

Juho Julkunen <giao...@hotmail.com> wrote
> dra...@chibardun.net.invalid wrote

>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote

>>> Who inherits your iTunes library?

>>> Why your digital books and music may go to the grave.

>>> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-2012-08-23

>>> Just another reason why I don't like ebooks.

>> Well, considering the tonnage of books I have on my shelves, that may
>> not be so bad 8-)

>> I dislike the fact that it's so hard to lend them to someone. The
>> person you're lending one to has to be ready to read it right away or
>> the loan evaporates, whereas a real book can await the occasion.

> I wish they'd either start pricing egoods like
> the disposable things they currently are,

They basically do with music.

> or sort out a secondary market for them.

Easier said than done that with ebooks.

> They don't want to, but they might not have a choice in the long run.

The problem is much more likely to be with piracy.

> At least I hope there's a limit to crap consumers will take.

I doubt it, essentially because they don't have much alternative.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books -- I
certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago; and while
they have no doubt been improving, my sight has been
deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[Lynn McGuire]

On 8/26/2012 3:34 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <2012...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>> Who inherits your iTunes library?
>>> Why your digital books and music may go
>>> to the grave.
>>>
>>> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-2012-08-23
>>>
>>> Just another reason why I don't like ebooks.
>>
>> "Someone who owned 10,000 hardcover books and the
>> same number of vinyl records could bequeath them
>> to descendants, but legal experts say passing on
>> iTunes and Kindle libraries would be much more
>> complicated."
>>
>> Stick with mpeg and pdf formats to keep busy bodies out of your
>> private property and affairs.
>
> Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books -- I
> certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago; and while
> they have no doubt been improving, my sight has been
> deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.

Me too. I cannot focus with my right eye for the
last month or so as I have a center floater and a
cataract. When the center floater dissipates in a
month or two I will then get the cataract evaluated
and try to find an eye surgeon who will do a heart
patient on blood thinners. May not be easy.

BTW, the kindle does have a font size changer for
all ebooks. But, my grandfather used to use a
magnifying glass for reading. I used to steal it
and fry ants <g>.

Lynn

[Kip Williams]

Dorothy J Heydt wrote, On 8/26/12 4:34 PM:

> Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books -- I
> certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago; and while
> they have no doubt been improving, my sight has been
> deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.

How are you reading this newsgroup?


Kip W
rasfw

[James Silverton]

I'm on blood thinners myself but I've twice had operations for which I
stopped the warfarin about 5 days in advance.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[Jacey Bedford]

In message <k1bmub$g55$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
writes

I agree I like REAL books, but I'm running out of bookshelf space and my
eyesight likes the larger print on my Kindle. At the moment I read about
half and half.

Also I figure that by the time I'm ready for my kids to shovel me off to
an old fogies' home no one will mind me taking my electronic library
whereas they might object if I tried to bring in 100 boxes of books.

Of course I do back up all my ebooks on to my computer and with Calibre
I can convert the non-DRM ones to other formats to read on a different
machine.

However DRM is a problem. I know it can be circumnavigated, but
hopefully publishers will dump it soon. If anyone really wants to pirate
an ebook they will. All I want to be able to do is choose to read ebooks
I've purchased legally on any device I choose to own. At the moment it's
a Kindle but it might not always be.

So, yeah, ebooks are practical in the short term, but not in the long.

OTOH no one else in my family likes SF/F so they'll probably dump my
books in the nearest Oxfam shop when I've gone anyway. Will I care?
Somehow I don't think so.

Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford

[Jacey Bedford]

In message <M9DqH...@kithrup.com>, Dorothy J Heydt
<djh...@kithrup.com> writes

>In article <2012...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>> Who inherits your iTunes library?
>>> Why your digital books and music may go
>>> to the grave.
>>>
>>> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-2012-08-23
>>>
>>> Just another reason why I don't like ebooks.
>>
>> "Someone who owned 10,000 hardcover books and the
>> same number of vinyl records could bequeath them
>> to descendants, but legal experts say passing on
>> iTunes and Kindle libraries would be much more
>> complicated."
>>
>>Stick with mpeg and pdf formats to keep busy bodies out of your
>>private property and affairs.
>
>Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books -- I
>certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago; and while
>they have no doubt been improving, my sight has been
>deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.
>

Dorothy, if your sight is deteriorating you might find a Kindle actually
helps as you can increase the font size to suit and because it's not a
backlit screen there's no flicker effect. Some print books - especially
old paperback ones - have type which is just too small for me to read
comfortably these days.

What I would LOVE is the opportunity for a pound or two extra to buy a
hard copy book and the digital files at the same time.

The publisher makes a bit more. The author makes a bit more. I have the
paper book to leaf through and dip into and the digital files to enlarge
for when my eyes get tired. What's not to like?

Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford

[Lynn McGuire]

I wonder if they would like me to stop the warfarin
(which I am transitioning to this weekend from
Pradaxa). I have random afib 2 or 3 times per week
with tachycardia. Prime time for throwing a clot.
I really know nothing about all this and am learning
it the hard way usually.

Lynn

[David Johnston]

On 8/26/2012 2:34 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <2012...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>> Who inherits your iTunes library?
>>> Why your digital books and music may go
>>> to the grave.
>>>
>>> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-2012-08-23
>>>
>>> Just another reason why I don't like ebooks.
>>
>> "Someone who owned 10,000 hardcover books and the
>> same number of vinyl records could bequeath them
>> to descendants, but legal experts say passing on
>> iTunes and Kindle libraries would be much more
>> complicated."
>>
>> Stick with mpeg and pdf formats to keep busy bodies out of your
>> private property and affairs.
>
> Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books -- I
> certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago; and while
> they have no doubt been improving, my sight has been
> deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.
>

Actually modern E-Books are really good for people with sight problems
because you can set them to very large fonts.

[James Nicoll]

In article <k1e2pb$urg$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>On 8/26/2012 3:34 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <2012...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>>> Who inherits your iTunes library?
>>>> Why your digital books and music may go
>>>> to the grave.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-2012-08-23
>>>>
>>>> Just another reason why I don't like ebooks.
>>>
>>> "Someone who owned 10,000 hardcover books and the
>>> same number of vinyl records could bequeath them
>>> to descendants, but legal experts say passing on
>>> iTunes and Kindle libraries would be much more
>>> complicated."
>>>
>>> Stick with mpeg and pdf formats to keep busy bodies out of your
>>> private property and affairs.
>>
>> Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books -- I
>> certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago; and while
>> they have no doubt been improving, my sight has been
>> deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.
>
>Me too. I cannot focus with my right eye for the
>last month or so as I have a center floater and a
>cataract.

If reading is currently an issue, allow me to recommend archive.org's
libraries of X Minus One (radio adaptations of stories from Astounding
and Galaxy)

http://archive.org/details/XMinus1_A

Exploring Tomorrow (radio adaptations of stories from Astounding with
commentary by John W Campbell Jr)

http://archive.org/details/Exploring_Tomorrow

A Canticle for Leibowitz (A radio adaptation by WHA in 15 parts of the book)

http://archive.org/details/ACanticleForLiebowitz

And Mindwebs (radio adaptations, also by WHA, of stories from a wide variety
of sources)


--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)

[Kip Williams]

David Johnston wrote, On 8/27/12 12:25 AM:

Yes. And read them on a computer with a large screen.


Kip W
rasfw

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <%HC_r.605$gZ....@newsfe20.iad>,

Well, yes.

If I found something that I wanted to read that was available in
e-format. At present it appears that there's (a) Gutenberg,
which is typed single-space narrow margins, and hard to follow;
and (b) brand new stuff that I am unlikely to want to read
anyway and which (for the most part) limited to Kindle or some
other hand-held format which, as I say, I could probably not read
and am certain I'm not going to find out the hard way by buying
one.

My right eye is sort of phasing out, but then it's been doing
that for about twenty years (began with a stroke along the optic
nerve). Left eye still works, except for small print.

[David DeLaney]

Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>Also I figure that by the time I'm ready for my kids to shovel me off to
>an old fogies' home no one will mind me taking my electronic library
>whereas they might object if I tried to bring in 100 boxes of books.

Iiiiii am fairly sure that -classy- old fogies' homes do not mind new
customers arriving with a substantial library. (My issue would be that I'd
want anyone who borrowed one to bring it BACK when they were done AND not
to damage it in the process, which I understand are both somewhat foreign
concepts to a large fraction of the US population... but aside from that
I'd be fine with having The Books available to multiple people.)

>OTOH no one else in my family likes SF/F so they'll probably dump my
>books in the nearest Oxfam shop when I've gone anyway. Will I care?
>Somehow I don't think so.

My brother runs a bookstore in Boise (and a gaming store), so at least right
now I'm fairly sure much or all of mine wouldn't be unceremoniously and
unexaminedly dumped.

Dave, but of course at that point I won't care
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[David Dyer-Bennet]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

> In article <%HC_r.605$gZ....@newsfe20.iad>,
> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>David Johnston wrote, On 8/27/12 12:25 AM:

>>> Actually modern E-Books are really good for people with sight problems
>>> because you can set them to very large fonts.
>>
>>Yes. And read them on a computer with a large screen.
>
> Well, yes.
>
> If I found something that I wanted to read that was available in
> e-format. At present it appears that there's (a) Gutenberg,
> which is typed single-space narrow margins, and hard to follow;
> and (b) brand new stuff that I am unlikely to want to read
> anyway and which (for the most part) limited to Kindle or some
> other hand-held format which, as I say, I could probably not read
> and am certain I'm not going to find out the hard way by buying
> one.

Um, you're totally missing how this works. Ebook formats, and even
plain HTML, have paragraphs marked, but not line breaks. Text size is
determined by the reader program (as configured), and the paragraphs are
then flowed to fit the screen in the chosen text size.

While contrast, comfortable reading positions, and all sorts of other
issues can make ebooks less good than they seem for some people,
inflexible format is simply not the problem. (Unless you somehow get
saddled with PDF files, which are a horrible idea for any sort of
broadly-used document; they're fine for sending your print job to the
printing company.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

[Rod Speed]

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote

> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote
>> David Johnston wrote,

>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote

>>>> Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net> wrote

>>>> Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books --
>>>> I certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago;
>>>> and while they have no doubt been improving, my sight
>>>> has been deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.

>>> Actually modern E-Books are really good for people with sight
>>> problems because you can set them to very large fonts.

>> Yes. And read them on a computer with a large screen.

> Well, yes.

> If I found something that I wanted to read that was available in
> e-format. At present it appears that there's (a) Gutenberg,
> which is typed single-space narrow margins, and hard to follow;
> and (b) brand new stuff that I am unlikely to want to read
> anyway and which (for the most part) limited to Kindle or some
> other hand-held format which, as I say, I could probably not read
> and am certain I'm not going to find out the hard way by buying one.

No reason why you can't try it on what you use for usenet.

> My right eye is sort of phasing out, but then it's been doing
> that for about twenty years (began with a stroke along the
> optic nerve). Left eye still works, except for small print.

And any electronic format allows you to fix the small print problem.

[Wayne Throop]

: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: At present it appears that there's (a) Gutenberg, which is typed
: single-space narrow margins

Um. No it isn't. Gutenberg provides several formats (a quick look
at the Pride and Prejudice listing shows HTML, EPUB, MOBI, PDF,
Plucker (huh?), OiOO, and UTF-8). Of those, none but PDF even *specify*
line spacing, nor margins; those are entirely up to you and your ereader.

: (b) brand new stuff that I am unlikely to want to read anyway and

: which (for the most part) limited to Kindle or some other hand-held
: format which, as I say, I could probably not read

How do you conclude it's improbable? (That is to say, what evidence
and/or reasoning is this conclusion based upon.)

: I'm not going to find out the hard way by buying one.

So? Try it out free before you buy diddly, like I did.

: My right eye is sort of phasing out, but then it's been doing that for

: about twenty years (began with a stroke along the optic nerve). Left
: eye still works, except for small print.

Which means books made of electrons are an excellent choice for you;
as your eyesignt deteriorates, you can make the font larger and larger,
very much UN-like books made of dead trees. Well, you can hold a dtbook
closer and cloer to your nose, or buy stronger and stronger reading
glasses, but that's not nearly as convenient.

And if your eyes get *really* bad, ebook readers are starting to
have the ability to read them aloud to you.

( I think I've heard the objection that "if you change the font size
larger, you'd have to scan and pan to read the book"... and that turns
out not to be the case. It's about as much the case as "if you change
to a large print edition of this dtbook, the book will need to be taller
and wider, or you'd have to flip the pages back and forth to read each
line". )

[David Goldfarb]

In article <M9ECn...@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>brand new stuff ...

>which (for the most part) limited to Kindle or some
>other hand-held format which

Kindle, and all the other hand-held readers, also offer a program
that'll let you read on your computer. (A free program, I might add.)
And when reading on your computer you have many options as regards
the appearance -- color, font, size, and so on.

Since you can read Usenet, it's clear that you *can* read stuff on
your computer.

--
David Goldfarb |"We were walking backwards because if we walked
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | forwards our eyeballs would freeze."
goldf...@gmail.com | -- Graydon

[Kip Williams]

Dorothy J Heydt wrote, On 8/27/12 12:33 AM:

> In article <%HC_r.605$gZ....@newsfe20.iad>,
> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> David Johnston wrote, On 8/27/12 12:25 AM:
>>> On 8/26/2012 2:34 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> In article <2012...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books -- I
>>>> certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago; and while
>>>> they have no doubt been improving, my sight has been
>>>> deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.
>>>
>>> Actually modern E-Books are really good for people with sight problems
>>> because you can set them to very large fonts.
>>
>> Yes. And read them on a computer with a large screen.
>
> Well, yes.
>
> If I found something that I wanted to read that was available in
> e-format. At present it appears that there's (a) Gutenberg,
> which is typed single-space narrow margins, and hard to follow;
> and (b) brand new stuff that I am unlikely to want to read
> anyway and which (for the most part) limited to Kindle or some
> other hand-held format which, as I say, I could probably not read
> and am certain I'm not going to find out the hard way by buying
> one.

It's been pointed out that Gutenberg has multiple formats.

If you download and open the file in a simple text program (TextEdit in
OSX, NotePad in Windows), you can make the text as big as you like, and
by narrowing the window, you can make the column size more convenient.


Kip W
rasfw

[erilar]

In article <ylfk8vd0...@dd-b.net>,

David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote:

> While contrast, comfortable reading positions, and all sorts of other
> issues can make ebooks less good than they seem for some people,
> inflexible format is simply not the problem. (Unless you somehow get
> saddled with PDF files, which are a horrible idea for any sort of
> broadly-used document; they're fine for sending your print job to the
> printing company.)

Another thing you can do with an ebook reader is prop it up like a small
laptop and read it that way--at least I can do that with my original
iPad's Zaggmate cover/keyboard. The newer ones have a fancy cover that
can do something similar. I assume there's something like that for
Kindles, too. I haven't tried reading books on my laptop.

As for content, there are more free books out there of every kind
imaginable than can be counted individually 8-) I rather like old
mysteries--the early 20th century ones can be fun to read. There's some
free sf and fantasy out there, too. I have a growing collection of free
historical mysteries, too, but that takes a little more effort: I grab
one-day freebies from Amazon.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[erilar]

In article <k1e2pb$urg$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
wrote:

> I cannot focus with my right eye for the
> last month or so as I have a center floater and a
> cataract. When the center floater dissipates in a
> month or two I will then get the cataract evaluated
> and try to find an eye surgeon who will do a heart
> patient on blood thinners. May not be easy.

My second cataract operation was laser surgery and I was driving my car
two days later. Wonders of modern surgery.
(The first one was a decade earlier and took much longer to heal)

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:33:46 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
wrote:

>Um, you're totally missing how this works. Ebook formats, and even
>plain HTML, have paragraphs marked, but not line breaks. Text size is
>determined by the reader program (as configured), and the paragraphs are
>then flowed to fit the screen in the chosen text size.

With some flaws. For instance, I have some e-books that have the
first line of a paragraph in all caps. Or would, if I had the screen
size adjusted just so.

I've also seen an occasional hyphenated word which was meant to be a
continuation hyphen at the end of a line, which wasn't cleaned up
properly for the digital version. I expect that to disappear as more
books start off digital.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[James Nicoll]

In article <u00n38tiu7ii7qim3...@4ax.com>,

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:33:46 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Um, you're totally missing how this works. Ebook formats, and even
>>plain HTML, have paragraphs marked, but not line breaks. Text size is
>>determined by the reader program (as configured), and the paragraphs are
>>then flowed to fit the screen in the chosen text size.
>
>With some flaws. For instance, I have some e-books that have the
>first line of a paragraph in all caps. Or would, if I had the screen
>size adjusted just so.

I think the oddest thing I've had happen after running a file through
caliber to produce an ePub is the one where each page had one sentence on
it.

OK, the time I discovered the way caliber handles double columned pdfs is
to treat the two columns as one continuous column was a bit odd but only
because the rest was actually interesting right up to the point it turned
into word salad.

[Wayne Throop]

:: David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
:: While contrast, comfortable reading positions, and all sorts of other

:: issues can make ebooks less good than they seem for some people,

They can? Or more specifically, what are these "uncomfortable
reading positions", specific to ebooks, of which you speak?
Is there some position you can get into while holding a dtbook,
that (eg) a kindle prevents? Prevents how?

: erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid>
: Another thing you can do with an ebook reader is prop it up like a

: small laptop and read it that way--at least I can do that with my
: original iPad's Zaggmate cover/keyboard. The newer ones have a fancy
: cover that can do something similar. I assume there's something like
: that for Kindles, too. I haven't tried reading books on my laptop.

Eh. It's OK. And again, is there a position you can get into with
a dtbook that an ipad, or a netbook, or android, or whatnot, prevents?

OK, so, e-ink pearl is grey-on-grey... but it's a *very* light grey
on a *very* dark grey... if you can make out text on a trade paperback,
it seems unlikely that e-ink perl displays would foil you. And that's
not your only alternative: shirley there's some tablet-like widget that
has a legible display. And sure, you don't want to drop your kindle in
the bath... still less your netbook plugged into the wall to conserve
battery runtime. But I don't particularly want to dunk a dtbook neither.

But still... reading positions? Srsly? How would that work?

[Kip Williams]

Howard Brazee wrote, On 8/27/12 10:13 AM:

> On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:33:46 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Um, you're totally missing how this works. Ebook formats, and even
>> plain HTML, have paragraphs marked, but not line breaks. Text size is
>> determined by the reader program (as configured), and the paragraphs are
>> then flowed to fit the screen in the chosen text size.
>
> With some flaws. For instance, I have some e-books that have the
> first line of a paragraph in all caps. Or would, if I had the screen
> size adjusted just so.
>
> I've also seen an occasional hyphenated word which was meant to be a
> continuation hyphen at the end of a line, which wasn't cleaned up
> properly for the digital version. I expect that to disappear as more
> books start off digital.

When I'm laying something out, I prefer not to hyphenate words at the
ends of lines at all. Better to have irregular line endings than to open
the can of worms that hyphenation can cause. The bro-ken words I see in
ebooks is just one of the worms.


Kip W
rasfw

[Kip Williams]

James Nicoll wrote, On 8/27/12 10:17 AM:

> I think the oddest thing I've had happen after running a file through
> caliber to produce an ePub is the one where each page had one sentence on
> it.

The most irksome thing I'm running into now is in what must have been an
auto-scanned and OCR'd edition of Bernard Shaw's music criticisms, and
every ten or twenty pages, there's a page that the program interpreted
as an illustration, so the text ends in the middle of a page, then
there's a page of smaller type (hard to read on a recumbent exercise
bike) and then the text resumes.

It's so infuriating, I've even considered not reading a page and going
on. (I know! Shaw!)


Kip W — pshaw
rasfw

[Richard R. Hershberger]

On Aug 26, 6:54 pm, Jacey Bedford <lookin...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In message <k1bmub$g5...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>

I recently was the executor for the estate of a church member. I can
assure you that physical books in the vast majority of cases are a
negative asset to the estate. I am seriously considering putting in
my will a special provision for my heraldry books, as they are
somewhat pricey, some of them are hard to find, and they are
distinctly special-interest. I may designate some SCA herald to
receive them, with instructions to keep them or disburse them as he
sees fit. If my SF ends up in the used book pool (if the used book
market still exists by then), that is as good a result as any.

Richard R. Hershberger

[Scott Lurndal]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> writes:
>On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:33:46 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Um, you're totally missing how this works. Ebook formats, and even
>>plain HTML, have paragraphs marked, but not line breaks. Text size is
>>determined by the reader program (as configured), and the paragraphs are
>>then flowed to fit the screen in the chosen text size.
>
>With some flaws. For instance, I have some e-books that have the
>first line of a paragraph in all caps. Or would, if I had the screen
>size adjusted just so.

Some ebooks seem to be OCR'd scans, rather than formatted from electronic
source material. This can often lead to rather humorous mistranslations.

My favorite OCR error so far is "arroz con polio" instead of "arroz con pollo"

http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/arroz_con_polio

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote in
news:k1bmub$g55$1...@dont-email.me:

> Who inherits your iTunes library?

The short (as in, not stupid and trying to generate hysteria for
profit) answer is, whoever inherits your password(s). Duh.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Don Kuenz]

Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> What I would LOVE is the opportunity for a pound or two extra to buy a
> hard copy book and the digital files at the same time.

My thoughts exactly. Nothing beats pulp for simply reading _analog_.
OTOH, nothing beats digital when it comes to searching. Searching for
a pithy quote, searching for a character, searching for anything.
And that's why eBooks win in my case. And now Jacey Bedford adds yet
another reason. To wit, "no one will mind me taking my electronic
library [anywhere]."

Although the eBook gold standard is plain html source code _analog_
only comes in these flavors:

eReader (PDB), ePub (EPUB), Rocket/REB1100 (RB),
Portable Document Format (PDF),
Portable Document Format - Large Print (PDF), Palm Doc (PDB),
Microsoft Reader (LIT), Franklin eBookMan (FUB), hiebook (KML),
Sony Reader (LRF), iSilo (PDB), Mobipocket (PRC),
Kindle Compatible (MOBI), OEBFF Format (IMP)

I recognize a few of those formats but trust only one, PDF. Greg Goss
recommends EPUB, which may or may not work for me. My minimal criteria
for an eBook is that it be readable by an open source app (ie from the
FreeBSD ports tree).

Despite my proclivity for FreeBSD, my primary eBook reading platform
is Winders on a lenovo x61 tablet. One can flip its screen either to
landscape or portrait. Portrait orientation offers a 9.5" by 7.5"
screen for fullscreen, single page, PDF viewing. When reading a
screen becomes too tedious, I simply printout the pertinent parts of
an eBook.

Under ideal conditions, using a "saddle stapler" with a paper cutter
can produce a pamphlet that shares a lot of pulp's advantages. What
this world needs is an easy way to print and bind paperbacks in the
home.

--
Don Kuenz

[Joy Beeson]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:54:20 -0500, Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net>
wrote:

> What
> this world needs is an easy way to print and bind paperbacks in the
> home.

Or PDF suppliers clueful enough to post them on Lulu in addition to
selling downloads.

No way I'm going to spend more than a hardback would cost (and make an
extra trip to the store for more ink) to get a stack of loose sheets
printed on one side with water-soluble ink.

And I can't read PDF files on a screen. I can sort of peer at them,
but reading them is out of the question. I don't think it has
anything to do with my myopia etc., as individual lines are perfectly
clear, and I can read entire novels in non-sloppy HTML.

And clicking "no style" often makes sloppy HTML legible. (Clicking
"no style" takes some of the meaning out of Patricia Wrede's blog, but
clicking ctl+ until the letters are bigger than the spots on the
background and sitting a little farther from the screen works nicely.)

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net

[Michael Stemper]

In article <u00n38tiu7ii7qim3...@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> writes:
>On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:33:46 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote:

>>Um, you're totally missing how this works. Ebook formats, and even
>>plain HTML, have paragraphs marked, but not line breaks. Text size is
>>determined by the reader program (as configured), and the paragraphs are
>>then flowed to fit the screen in the chosen text size.
>
>With some flaws. For instance, I have some e-books that have the
>first line of a paragraph in all caps. Or would, if I had the screen
>size adjusted just so.

For which there's no excuse in HTML (I can't speak for other formats).
The following bit of CSS will cause the first line (and no more) of the
first paragraph following a second-level heading to be all caps:

H2 + P:first-line {font-variant: small-caps;}

(Specifically, letters capitalized in the original will have larger
caps than letters not capitalized in the original.)

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <6fM_r.79209$8p.3...@fed12.iad>,

I read a version of Fredric Brown's _The Screaming Mimi_ a few years ago.
It was a papberback, but basically a pirate version. This guy running
a site called blackmaskonline or something like that was reprinting a
lot of old pulp stuff (including Doc Savage) and basically daring the
trademark and copyright holders to sue him. Eventually they obliged..

Anyway, as I say, paperback, but obviously printed directly from an OCR
scan.

Practically every instance of the word "time" was replaced by "tune", and
every instance of "gun" was replaced by "bun".
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[David Johnston]

On 8/26/2012 10:33 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <%HC_r.605$gZ....@newsfe20.iad>,
> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> David Johnston wrote, On 8/27/12 12:25 AM:
>>> On 8/26/2012 2:34 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> In article <2012...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books -- I
>>>> certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago; and while
>>>> they have no doubt been improving, my sight has been
>>>> deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.
>>>
>>> Actually modern E-Books are really good for people with sight problems
>>> because you can set them to very large fonts.
>>
>> Yes. And read them on a computer with a large screen.
>
> Well, yes.
>
> If I found something that I wanted to read that was available in
> e-format. At present it appears that there's (a) Gutenberg,
> which is typed single-space narrow margins, and hard to follow;

Actually no. Not if you are reading it using an e-reader or using
e-reader software on your computer.

> and (b) brand new stuff that I am unlikely to want to read
> anyway

Well I just checked and confirmed that books like Stranger in a Strange
Land, Spell of the Witch World, Imperial Earth, the Darkover books, and
REH's Conan stories are all available. Although Heinlein's stuff is
over-priced. Norton's books are reasonable.

and which (for the most part) limited to Kindle or some
> other hand-held format

No. Amazon offers a free download of a program that lets you read
kindle books on your computer. The other guys have one too, but I
downloaded it from my library system.

[Scott Lurndal]

Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net> writes:

>I recognize a few of those formats but trust only one, PDF. Greg Goss
>recommends EPUB, which may or may not work for me. My minimal criteria
>for an eBook is that it be readable by an open source app (ie from the
>FreeBSD ports tree).

Both Calibre and FBReader (open source applications) will read EPUB
and other formats. FWIW, EPUB is just a zip archive with a bunch of
HTML pages.

scott

[Rod Speed]

Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote
> Howard Brazee wrote

The obvious thing is to have the ebook device do the hyphenation as
appropriate.

Its not rocket science.

[David Dyer-Bennet]

thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) writes:

> :: David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
> :: While contrast, comfortable reading positions, and all sorts of other
> :: issues can make ebooks less good than they seem for some people,
>
> They can? Or more specifically, what are these "uncomfortable
> reading positions", specific to ebooks, of which you speak?
> Is there some position you can get into while holding a dtbook,
> that (eg) a kindle prevents? Prevents how?

I'm just leaving open the idea that people have their own strong
preferences. Also that some people don't own personal electronic
devices and would be reading on their main computer or laptops, which
limit positions more. I'm not saying they're particularly bad, just
that each one has its own limitations.

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> writes:

> On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:33:46 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Um, you're totally missing how this works. Ebook formats, and even
>>plain HTML, have paragraphs marked, but not line breaks. Text size is
>>determined by the reader program (as configured), and the paragraphs are
>>then flowed to fit the screen in the chosen text size.
>
> With some flaws. For instance, I have some e-books that have the
> first line of a paragraph in all caps. Or would, if I had the screen
> size adjusted just so.
>
> I've also seen an occasional hyphenated word which was meant to be a
> continuation hyphen at the end of a line, which wasn't cleaned up
> properly for the digital version. I expect that to disappear as more
> books start off digital.

The quality of commercial e-books is abysmal; Gutenberg does MUCH
better.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <k1gdb0$l3c$1...@dont-email.me>,

David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>On 8/26/2012 10:33 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <%HC_r.605$gZ....@newsfe20.iad>,
>> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> David Johnston wrote, On 8/27/12 12:25 AM:
>>>> On 8/26/2012 2:34 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>> In article <2012...@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books -- I
>>>>> certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago; and while
>>>>> they have no doubt been improving, my sight has been
>>>>> deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.
>>>>
>>>> Actually modern E-Books are really good for people with sight problems
>>>> because you can set them to very large fonts.
>>>
>>> Yes. And read them on a computer with a large screen.
>>
>> Well, yes.
>>
>> If I found something that I wanted to read that was available in
>> e-format. At present it appears that there's (a) Gutenberg,
>> which is typed single-space narrow margins, and hard to follow;
>
>Actually no. Not if you are reading it using an e-reader or using
>e-reader software on your computer.

I have no idea how I would acquire e-reader software for my
computer (a several-year-old PC), but I do have an idea that it
would cost money I don't have.

>> and (b) brand new stuff that I am unlikely to want to read
>> anyway
>
>Well I just checked and confirmed that books like Stranger in a Strange
>Land, Spell of the Witch World, Imperial Earth, the Darkover books, and
>REH's Conan stories are all available. Although Heinlein's stuff is
>over-priced. Norton's books are reasonable.

I have, I think, all the Darkover and REH books in dead-tree
form. And all the Heinlein I want to reread from time to time.
Not interested in acquiring Norton.

If I could somehow painlessly scan and download all my dead-tree
books into some e-format *that I could read*, that would be cool.
But I suspect I'll be dead before that happens.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[Wayne Throop]

:::: While contrast, comfortable reading positions, and all sorts of

:::: other issues can make ebooks less good than they seem for some
:::: people,

:: They can? Or more specifically, what are these "uncomfortable
:: reading positions", specific to ebooks, of which you speak? Is there
:: some position you can get into while holding a dtbook, that (eg) a
:: kindle prevents? Prevents how?

: David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
: I'm just leaving open the idea that people have their own strong

: preferences. Also that some people don't own personal electronic
: devices and would be reading on their main computer or laptops, which
: limit positions more. I'm not saying they're particularly bad, just
: that each one has its own limitations.

OK, fair enough.
But to count this as a limitation of *ebooks* seems mighty unfair.
The "ebookness" of ebooks has little or nothing to do with what people
decide to view it on, and picking transitional or extreme corner cases
to draw "limitations" from, pretty much means those limitations *aren't*
due to ebookness.

"Stickiness is the most underrated of all the -nesses.
And of all the stickinesses, the sap of the maraca nut tree
is the sticky-nessiest."
--- Isabella Garcia-Shapiro
( reading a sign explaining
the maraca nut tree )

[Wayne Throop]

: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: I have no idea how I would acquire e-reader software for my computer

: (a several-year-old PC), but I do have an idea that it would cost
: money I don't have.

Well, if I were about to buy an ebook on amazon,
I'd probably just click on the link labeled

Read books on your computer or other mobile devices
with our FREE Kindle Reading Apps.

which is on the page of every ebook they carry.
Then I'd click on the type of computer I had, say, "windows",
and then click on the "download now" button.

And what with the "with our free kindle reading apps"
I kinda suspect they might fit in almost any budget.

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 14:17:30 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>I think the oddest thing I've had happen after running a file through
>caliber to produce an ePub is the one where each page had one sentence on
>it.
>
>OK, the time I discovered the way caliber handles double columned pdfs is
>to treat the two columns as one continuous column was a bit odd but only
>because the rest was actually interesting right up to the point it turned
>into word salad.

I've also seen e-books with blank pages after each chapter, probably
because of that same reason - or something similar.

[Howard Brazee]

On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 05:02:02 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> I've also seen an occasional hyphenated word which was meant to be a
>>> continuation hyphen at the end of a line, which wasn't cleaned up
>>> properly for the digital version. I expect that to disappear as more
>>> books start off digital.
>
>> When I'm laying something out, I prefer not to hyphenate words at the ends
>> of lines at all. Better to have irregular line endings than to open the
>> can of worms that hyphenation can cause. The bro-ken words I see in ebooks
>> is just one of the worms.
>
>The obvious thing is to have the ebook device do the hyphenation as
>appropriate.
>
>Its not rocket science.

It does. But sometimes the source has hyphens (note I said that I
expected this problem to disappear). Un-hyphenating is more
difficult as hyphenating, as it involves guessing what the author's
intent was.

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 19:54:33 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>
>I have no idea how I would acquire e-reader software for my
>computer (a several-year-old PC), but I do have an idea that it
>would cost money I don't have.

Most e-readers are free. It's not the razors they are selling, it's
the blades.

[Lynn McGuire]

Here is the kindle software for Windows 7,
Vista and XP:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000426311
I doubt that they support any Windows O/S
older than that.

Lynn

[Rod Speed]

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote
> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote
>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote

>>> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> David Johnston wrote

>>>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote

>>>>>> Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net> wrote

>>>>>> Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books --
>>>>>> I certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago;
>>>>>> and while they have no doubt been improving, my sight
>>>>>> has been deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.

>>>>> Actually modern E-Books are really good for people with
>>>>> sight problems because you can set them to very large fonts.

>>>> Yes. And read them on a computer with a large screen.

>>> Well, yes.

>>> If I found something that I wanted to read that was available
>>> in e-format. At present it appears that there's (a) Gutenberg,
>>> which is typed single-space narrow margins, and hard to follow;

>> Actually no. Not if you are reading it using an e-reader
>> or using e-reader software on your computer.

> I have no idea how I would acquire e-reader software
> for my computer (a several-year-old PC),

You get it from amazon if its kindle format you want to read.

> but I do have an idea that it would cost money I don't have.

You're wrong, its free. So is whats required to read pdfs too.

[David Johnston]

It would not. The software is a free download. You would get the kindle
software by going to Amazon.com, and typing in "kindle for PC". The
first result is "free kindle reading apps". You click on the right one
for your computer.

Or just click right here http://preview.alturl.com/cw8hd to

>
>>> and (b) brand new stuff that I am unlikely to want to read
>>> anyway
>>
>> Well I just checked and confirmed that books like Stranger in a Strange
>> Land, Spell of the Witch World, Imperial Earth, the Darkover books, and
>> REH's Conan stories are all available. Although Heinlein's stuff is
>> over-priced. Norton's books are reasonable.
>
> I have, I think, all the Darkover and REH books in dead-tree
> form.

My point was not that you want an e-copy of those particular books.
(Although that collection of REH stories IS just a buck) It's that they
aren't just selling brand-new stuff.

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Nope. The most-common solution is the Amazon Kindle app, which is free
(and will read .mobi files that aren't DRMed perfectly well, as well as
also reading Kindle-format files and connecting to the Amazon Kindle
store).

Calibre is a free application that converts ebook formats (you probably
would find it confusing) but it also includes reader apps for the
formats it knows about.

FBReader is a free reader app for Linux, Android, and which has been
built for other platforms including Windows. (I have a vague memory
you're on a Linux desktop, but I'm not certain. Besides, other people
might also not know.)

There are, I'm sure, dozens to hundreds more. These three are ones I
use in various environments, and they're all free.

>>> and (b) brand new stuff that I am unlikely to want to read
>>> anyway
>>
>>Well I just checked and confirmed that books like Stranger in a Strange
>>Land, Spell of the Witch World, Imperial Earth, the Darkover books, and
>>REH's Conan stories are all available. Although Heinlein's stuff is
>>over-priced. Norton's books are reasonable.
>
> I have, I think, all the Darkover and REH books in dead-tree
> form. And all the Heinlein I want to reread from time to time.
> Not interested in acquiring Norton.

I have a few dozen books I love on my phone, plus the book I'm reading
currently if it's an ebook. It's very handy to have things to browse
through if I get stuck somewhere for a while. Maybe I finished a
dead-tree book I was carrying while I waited, or something. Of course,
you're not away from home much, so that happens far less often to you.

> If I could somehow painlessly scan and download all my dead-tree
> books into some e-format *that I could read*, that would be cool.
> But I suspect I'll be dead before that happens.

I'd love that too. I cheat a little -- I'll grab illegal ebooks (but
not pay money for them) of things I have paper copies of, at least so
long as there aren't legal ebooks available. Even if they're too
badly-done to read happily, they're useful to search and then to
cut-and-paste quotes out of for discussions.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Not having an e-book reader, a cell phone, or any other handheld
electronic gadget, I'm not sure how I would install an app even
if I thought it would work. I am older than computers, don't
forget; I was about five when Grace Hopper pulled the moth from
the relays. When it comes to downloading anything, I have to get
Hal to do it -- and he doesn't have anything that does apps
either.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <aa2580...@mid.individual.net>,

Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote
>> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote
>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote
>>>> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> David Johnston wrote
>>>>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote
>>>>>>> Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net> wrote
>
>>>>>>> Since I have no reason to think I could *read* e-books --
>>>>>>> I certainly couldn't read the ones I saw a decade ago;
>>>>>>> and while they have no doubt been improving, my sight
>>>>>>> has been deteriorating -- I'll stick with dead trees.
>
>>>>>> Actually modern E-Books are really good for people with
>>>>>> sight problems because you can set them to very large fonts.
>
>>>>> Yes. And read them on a computer with a large screen.
>
>>>> Well, yes.
>
>>>> If I found something that I wanted to read that was available
>>>> in e-format. At present it appears that there's (a) Gutenberg,
>>>> which is typed single-space narrow margins, and hard to follow;
>
>>> Actually no. Not if you are reading it using an e-reader
>>> or using e-reader software on your computer.
>
>> I have no idea how I would acquire e-reader software
>> for my computer (a several-year-old PC),
>
>You get it from amazon if its kindle format you want to read.

Since the one thing I know about Kindle is that it has only one
font (people have suggested from time to time that I put _The
Interior Life_ on Kindle, that being the elephant in the ebook
market, but there's no way to do the three sets of fonts --
though SMALL CAPs have been suggested), I do not think I want to
read Kindle format, elephant or not.

[Kip Williams]

Dorothy J Heydt wrote, On 8/27/12 5:15 PM:

> In article <13460...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> : I have no idea how I would acquire e-reader software for my computer
>> : (a several-year-old PC), but I do have an idea that it would cost
>> : money I don't have.
>>
>> Well, if I were about to buy an ebook on amazon,
>> I'd probably just click on the link labeled
>>
>> Read books on your computer or other mobile devices
>> with our FREE Kindle Reading Apps.
>>
>> which is on the page of every ebook they carry.
>> Then I'd click on the type of computer I had, say, "windows",
>> and then click on the "download now" button.
>>
>> And what with the "with our free kindle reading apps"
>> I kinda suspect they might fit in almost any budget.
>>
>
> Not having an e-book reader, a cell phone, or any other handheld
> electronic gadget, I'm not sure how I would install an app even
> if I thought it would work. I am older than computers, don't
> forget; I was about five when Grace Hopper pulled the moth from
> the relays. When it comes to downloading anything, I have to get
> Hal to do it -- and he doesn't have anything that does apps
> either.

Click on the "download now" button. If it doesn't do it automatically,
right-click the link and save the program to your drive. Double click
the icon to open and run it. If it needs to install itself, it will take
care of most of that for you, asking a question or two along the way,
perhaps.


Kip W
rasfw

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <M9FJA...@kithrup.com>,

Assuming you have at least Windows XP, you have an incorrect idea.

http://tinyurl.com/9ufluwx

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <M9Fn2...@kithrup.com>,

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:

>In article <13460...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>: I have no idea how I would acquire e-reader software for my computer
>>: (a several-year-old PC), but I do have an idea that it would cost
>>: money I don't have.
>>
>>Well, if I were about to buy an ebook on amazon,
>>I'd probably just click on the link labeled
>>
>> Read books on your computer or other mobile devices
>> with our FREE Kindle Reading Apps.
>>
>>which is on the page of every ebook they carry.
>>Then I'd click on the type of computer I had, say, "windows",
>>and then click on the "download now" button.
>>
>>And what with the "with our free kindle reading apps"
>>I kinda suspect they might fit in almost any budget.
>>
>
>Not having an e-book reader, a cell phone, or any other handheld
>electronic gadget, I'm not sure how I would install an app even
>if I thought it would work. I am older than computers, don't
>forget; I was about five when Grace Hopper pulled the moth from
>the relays. When it comes to downloading anything, I have to get
>Hal to do it -- and he doesn't have anything that does apps
>either.
>

Windows XP on a PC. "App" is just short for application. Not every app
runs on something "mobile".

[Rod Speed]

Its just an example. Whatever ebook format you want to read,
there is a free reader for it that’s as easy to get onto what you
are using for usenet.

[Howard Brazee]

I just saw this link about inheriting iTunes libraries:

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-08-23/finance/33336852_1_digital-content-digital-files-apple-and-amazon

[slakmagik]

(NB: I'm not broadsiding you, personally, but yelling about ebooks in
general. You just happened to be the last person on this thread-reading
who mentioned the desktop kindle.)

Where can I click on 'Linux'? Everything and its brother supports epub
_except_ the Kindle, which supports Amazon's proprietary format. And
nothing _but_ Kindle (and some Apple/Microsoft/Android junk) supports
that. Kindle stuff is drm-encrypted and there's no legal way (that I
know of) to view them on my Linux desktop[1]. And why should I have to buy
a piece of hardware or download a piece of software and either be
ignorant of the formats or learn about them[2] and their encryption and
need to upgrade and worry about privacy and security and not be able to
actually own anything or pass anything on or lend them to others or
whatever when I can, y'know, read a book? No batteries required, no
upgrading, no possibility of hacking it. I mean, if you want to give me
a backup ebook for free in epub format for every real book I buy, be my
guest. But the idea that people pay for these pixels is crazy. People
are being conned and telling others they are loving it like the pod
people (ipod people?) from Invasion of the Book Snatchers. Y'know,
Amazon reports that e-books are outselling mass market paperbacks as
part of the ongoing corporate propaganda that you're just a luddite and
in a tiny minority if you read "old fashioned" books but I'd call that
(a) a biased souce and (b) a self-fulfilling prophecy when you can
hardly buy mass market paperbacks any more because the corporations are
giving me the choice to control the market place by *not making them*
anymore. Show me a mass market _Caryatids_ by Sterling or _Zendegi_ by
Egan or _Hull Zero Three_ by Bear or _Leviathan Wakes_ by Corey and I'll
buy them and then we'll talk about ebooks outselling mmpb. (It's not
like there'd be no customers buying these titles if they existed.) But,
even so, ebooks do not outsell real books altogether or do so at a real
store, of course. But that's not what Amazon trumpets. And I'm a science
and science fiction fan and Linux user - not exactly a recipe for a
luddite. But we don't have to adopt *every* new piece of technology just
because some corporation tells us to. Let me walk up to a kiosk and
print myself a hardcopy for 100% sell through and a corresponding
reduction in price of 50% off of the mmpb and that'll be new technology
I can likely support.


___
[1] And how crazy is that? If I buy a paperback and put it on *this*
shelf, I can read it. If I put it on *this* shelf, I can't? That's nuts.
So if I buy an ebook and put it on *this* computer, I can read it but if
I put it on *this* one I can't. And this is acceptable? Multiplying the
real/fake book parallels and their ensuing idiocies is left as an
exercise for the (e)reader.

[2] Someone said epub was html but they're actually xhtml and css -
should be interesting to see if that stay that way or go to html5 and
then which variety.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <k1gtpp$e1q$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,

Wow.

See, I think I'll stick with my dead trees. I only wish I had a
foldbox, TARDIS, or bag-of-holding to keep them in.

[Wayne Throop]

:: Then I'd click on the type of computer I had, say, "windows", and

:: then click on the "download now" button.

: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: Not having an e-book reader, a cell phone, or any other handheld

: electronic gadget, I'm not sure how I would install an app even if I
: thought it would work.

Already covered. The "click on the download now" part incorporates it.
And reader, cellphone, handhelds, not relevant if you're using a windows
desktop or laptop; you just let the windows install wizard go its thing,
and you end up with a "kindle" icon on your desktop adn in your
start menu.

: I am older than computers, don't forget; I was about five when Grace

: Hopper pulled the moth from the relays. When it comes to downloading
: anything, I have to get Hal to do it -- and he doesn't have anything
: that does apps either.

App schmapp. The install wizard does all the work.
In fact, I rather imagine you have installed executables
even if you didn't knowing you were doing so. Maybe not,
but seems likely.

Or: "app" is just a buzzword everybody uses nowdays;
windows has been downloading executables and scripts as part
of web pages, with a single click, intended to be done by
complete amateurs who have no idea how to do things like
modify the "Start" menu or put anything on the desktop,
for... like... decades now, or some junk.


<fx voice=McCoy>"Why, a CHILD could do it!"</fx>
<fx sfx="needle scratching across a record, then silence"></fx>
"Well, sure, but what about an adult?"

[Kip Williams]

Dorothy J Heydt wrote, On 8/27/12 7:01 PM:

> See, I think I'll stick with my dead trees. I only wish I had a
> foldbox, TARDIS, or bag-of-holding to keep them in.

That's my Kindle!


Kip W
rasfw

[Joseph Nebus]

In <M9Fry...@kithrup.com> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

>See, I think I'll stick with my dead trees. I only wish I had a
>foldbox, TARDIS, or bag-of-holding to keep them in.

Hey, is there anyone trying to do science fiction stories with
bag-of-holding type gimmicks these days? Will McCarthy's wellstones
and whatnot had that application, but I'm not familiar enough with that
realm of the genre to say whether anybody else is playing there.

--
http://nebusresearch.wordpress.com/ Joseph Nebus
Current Entry: Reading the Comics, August 27, 2012 http://wp.me/p1RYhY-im
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 21:18:37 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>Since the one thing I know about Kindle is that it has only one
>font

The Kindles come with several serif and sans-serif fonts you can
choose amongst to display the book text, each can be drawn at a range
of sizes and weights.

What may be the case (I can't recall) is that there's no way for the
Kindle book format to specify multiple fonts itself, and thereby
represent multiple fonts in a single book.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
You can't get a leopard to change his spots. In fact, you can't /really/ get a
leopard to appreciate the notion that it has spots. You can explain it carefully
to the leopard, but it will just sit there looking at you, knowing that you are
made of meat. After a while it will perhaps kill you. -- Geoffrey Pullum

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 22:03:45 -0400, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>William F. Adams wrote, On 8/25/12 9:45 PM:
>> On Aug 25, 7:25 pm, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>> Who inherits your iTunes library?
>>> Why your digital books and music may go
>>> to the grave.
>>>
>>> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-201...
>>>
>>> Just another reason why I don't like ebooks.
>>
>> Just include you e-mail account password in an envelope w/ your will.
>
>Or buy only books, etc., without DRM, and save them to whatever storage
>medium you regard as safe enough.

Or crack the DRM as part of your processing before saving them into
the archive/reader/player/whatever.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"I do not like the feel of the middle way; and I do not like the smell of
the left hand way" -- J R R Tolkien

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <5oT_r.272$RV7...@newsfe01.iad>,

If the Kindle works for you, fine.

I still have not established that I would be able to read one
(have never seen one in the, so to speak, flesh). If it turned
out that I could read one, then we could move on to the next
problem, getting all my dead trees downloaded to it. Books
published in the 1940s or -50s, and not since.

[Moriarty]

On Aug 28, 10:05 am, Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org>
wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 21:18:37 GMT, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J

>
> Heydt) wrote:
> >Since the one thing I know about Kindle is that it has only one
> >font
>
> The Kindles come with several serif and sans-serif fonts you can
> choose amongst to display the book text, each can be drawn at a range
> of sizes and weights.
>
> What may be the case (I can't recall) is that there's no way for the
> Kindle book format to specify multiple fonts itself, and thereby
> represent multiple fonts in a single book.

My ecopy of _Cryptonomicon_ displays the same multiple fonts as the
dead-tree edition. If you've read it, there are different fonts for
plain text and e-mail correspondence.

-Moriarty

[Kip Williams]

Joseph Nebus wrote, On 8/27/12 7:43 PM:

> In <M9Fry...@kithrup.com> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>
>> See, I think I'll stick with my dead trees. I only wish I had a
>> foldbox, TARDIS, or bag-of-holding to keep them in.
>
> Hey, is there anyone trying to do science fiction stories with
> bag-of-holding type gimmicks these days? Will McCarthy's wellstones
> and whatnot had that application, but I'm not familiar enough with that
> realm of the genre to say whether anybody else is playing there.

Does "Order of the Stick" count?


Kip W
rasfw

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

That's good news, thank you for it.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"You hear someone break into your home. You pull out your chainsaw
and crank it up. It makes its very distinctive chainsaw noise; he
hears it. What criminal is going to stay in a house with someone
that crazy?" -- Home defence with Franklin Hummel, rasfw

[Wayne Throop]

:: (NB: I'm not broadsiding you, personally, but yelling about ebooks in

:: general. You just happened to be the last person on this
:: thread-reading who mentioned the desktop kindle.)

: slakmagik <j...@hostname.invalid>
: Where can I click on 'Linux'? Everything and its brother supports

: epub _except_ the Kindle, which supports Amazon's proprietary format.
: And nothing _but_ Kindle (and some Apple/Microsoft/Android junk)
: supports that. Kindle stuff is drm-encrypted and there's no legal way
: (that I know of) to view them on my Linux desktop[1].

Hm. Well you can google "kindle on linux". I installed a kindle app via
Wine on my linux desktop, and it served adequately as my "gateway drug".
However... it wasn't a "click" by any means, and it was an older version
of the kindle software. Nevertheless, Wine->Programs->AmazonKindle
is in my ubuntu menu.

The method I used is vintage mid-2010, so the kindle app is about that old.

However, more recently, the kindle "Cloud Reader" runs as a java script
in an your browser, accessing your cloud copy of the book. It works on
linux, and you can read offline with it. You need firefox 6+ or chrome,
which is a pain (that is, a pain it doesn't work with webkit browsers
or whatnot), but it works. It's listed amongst the "free kindle
reading apps".

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <nl2o38t7chie86flq...@4ax.com>,

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 21:18:37 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>Since the one thing I know about Kindle is that it has only one
>>font
>
>The Kindles come with several serif and sans-serif fonts you can
>choose amongst to display the book text, each can be drawn at a range
>of sizes and weights.
>
>What may be the case (I can't recall) is that there's no way for the
>Kindle book format to specify multiple fonts itself, and thereby
>represent multiple fonts in a single book.

I see.

Comes to the same thing, I guess. I don't know if you've ever
seen _The Interior Life_, but it changes fonts in mid-sentence.

[Moriarty]

On Aug 28, 10:29 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <nl2o38t7chie86flqfri6g1mmfgnst5...@4ax.com>,
> Jaimie Vandenbergh  <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 21:18:37 GMT, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J

> >Heydt) wrote:
>
> >>Since the one thing I know about Kindle is that it has only one
> >>font
>
> >The Kindles come with several serif and sans-serif fonts you can
> >choose amongst to display the book text, each can be drawn at a range
> >of sizes and weights.
>
> >What may be the case (I can't recall) is that there's no way for the
> >Kindle book format to specify multiple fonts itself, and thereby
> >represent multiple fonts in a single book.
>
> I see.
>
> Comes to the same thing, I guess.  I don't know if you've ever
> seen _The Interior Life_, but it changes fonts in mid-sentence.

As I just noted, Jamie had it wrong, you can have multiple fonts in a
kindle book. _Cryptonomicon_ does just that. If you wanted to make
an ebook edition of TIL, it would be possible.

-Moriarty

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 23:43:49 +0000 (UTC), nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph
Nebus) wrote:

>>See, I think I'll stick with my dead trees. I only wish I had a
>>foldbox, TARDIS, or bag-of-holding to keep them in.
>
> Hey, is there anyone trying to do science fiction stories with
>bag-of-holding type gimmicks these days? Will McCarthy's wellstones
>and whatnot had that application, but I'm not familiar enough with that
>realm of the genre to say whether anybody else is playing there.

They work. I asked Wil about a month ago whether he had read Neal
Stephenson's _The Diamond Age: Or, A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer_.
He has heard from people who read both that it had a similar
technology and he has avoided reading it. I said that it wouldn't
mess him up at this late date.

[Howard Brazee]

On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 00:13:28 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>>> See, I think I'll stick with my dead trees. I only wish I had a
>>> foldbox, TARDIS, or bag-of-holding to keep them in.
>>
>>That's my Kindle!
>
>If the Kindle works for you, fine.
>
>I still have not established that I would be able to read one
>(have never seen one in the, so to speak, flesh). If it turned
>out that I could read one, then we could move on to the next
>problem, getting all my dead trees downloaded to it. Books
>published in the 1940s or -50s, and not since.

It's a cheaper way of getting *new* books without taking up bookshelf
space.

The only books I have duplicated so far are Bujold.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <8v4o38hmgvni54oc1...@4ax.com>,

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 00:13:28 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>>> See, I think I'll stick with my dead trees. I only wish I had a
>>>> foldbox, TARDIS, or bag-of-holding to keep them in.
>>>
>>>That's my Kindle!
>>
>>If the Kindle works for you, fine.
>>
>>I still have not established that I would be able to read one
>>(have never seen one in the, so to speak, flesh). If it turned
>>out that I could read one, then we could move on to the next
>>problem, getting all my dead trees downloaded to it. Books
>>published in the 1940s or -50s, and not since.
>
>It's a cheaper way of getting *new* books without taking up bookshelf
>space.

But I don't want *new* books nearly as much as I want space for
my old ones.

(Even better would I like space for the 43 boxes of 15-year-old
computer graphics books that Hal insists on keeping, but I don't
think they're on Kindle either, and I shall never be able to get
rid of them short of a visit from the Parter of Friends and
Terminator of Delights, and I'm in no hurry for that.)

[David Johnston]

On 8/27/2012 6:13 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <5oT_r.272$RV7...@newsfe01.iad>,
> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote, On 8/27/12 7:01 PM:
>>
>>> See, I think I'll stick with my dead trees. I only wish I had a
>>> foldbox, TARDIS, or bag-of-holding to keep them in.
>>
>> That's my Kindle!
>
> If the Kindle works for you, fine.
>
> I still have not established that I would be able to read one
> (have never seen one in the, so to speak, flesh). If it turned
> out that I could read one, then we could move on to the next
> problem, getting all my dead trees downloaded to it. Books
> published in the 1940s or -50s, and not since.
>

Do you really need ALL of your books in a Kindle to make it worthwhile?

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

Well, he said "Science Fiction" pretty specifically, so I presume
anything fantasy wouldn't count. I have the "neverfull pack" in _Phoenix
Rising_.



--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[Kip Williams]

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote, On 8/27/12 9:07 PM:

> On 8/27/12 8:17 PM, Kip Williams wrote:
>> Joseph Nebus wrote, On 8/27/12 7:43 PM:
>>> In <M9Fry...@kithrup.com> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>> writes:
>>>
>>>> See, I think I'll stick with my dead trees. I only wish I had a
>>>> foldbox, TARDIS, or bag-of-holding to keep them in.
>>>
>>> Hey, is there anyone trying to do science fiction stories with
>>> bag-of-holding type gimmicks these days? Will McCarthy's wellstones
>>> and whatnot had that application, but I'm not familiar enough with that
>>> realm of the genre to say whether anybody else is playing there.
>>
>> Does "Order of the Stick" count?
>
> Well, he said "Science Fiction" pretty specifically, so I presume
> anything fantasy wouldn't count. I have the "neverfull pack" in _Phoenix
> Rising_.

It's hard to know when someone is using Science Fiction as an inclusive
term or an exclusive term. I keep being surprised both ways, so it seems
better to just ask.


Kip W
rasfw

[David DeLaney]

Its advantages of lightness, compactness, take-everywhere-ness, read-
anywhereness, contain-all-your-books-ness, etc., fail rather drastically
if one CAN'T have all one's books in it. I fully understand about the 'it
will make getting new books, and some old ones, really really easy!' part ...
but I don't want a Bag of Book Holding that won't let me put the actual
books I already have in it.

(And no, I am NOT about to buy everything I have - that CAN be bought, anyway,
some of it is absolutely positively never appearing in e-form ever - again
to be put into this new format. Watching the audio progression from cassettes
and records to 8-tracks to CDs to DVDs to .mp3s, and the video progression
that parallels it, has convinced me of that long since. It works for some
people; some people have a lot LESS to transfer each time than I would.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[David DeLaney]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 20:17:58 -0400, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Joseph Nebus wrote, On 8/27/12 7:43 PM:

>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>> See, I think I'll stick with my dead trees. I only wish I had a
>>> foldbox, TARDIS, or bag-of-holding to keep them in.
>>
>> Hey, is there anyone trying to do science fiction stories with
>> bag-of-holding type gimmicks these days? Will McCarthy's wellstones
>> and whatnot had that application, but I'm not familiar enough with that
>> realm of the genre to say whether anybody else is playing there.
>
>Does "Order of the Stick" count?

They're popping up here and there in the Whateley Universe fanfic series,
wot I am currently about halfway through of. (Superheroes of various stripes
find them AWFULLY convenient for various reasons.)

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <W6U_r.905$cg5...@newsfe09.iad>,

Heh.

"Each wizard has a brace of wands, each knight a pair of swords,
And scrolls and vials and rings and things, all writ on little
cards,
And helms and greaves and shirts of mail -- they make a hefty
stack;
If half the stuff he totes were real, the kid would break his
back!"

[Kip Williams]

David DeLaney wrote, On 8/27/12 10:05 PM:

> On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 20:17:58 -0400, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joseph Nebus wrote, On 8/27/12 7:43 PM:
>>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>> See, I think I'll stick with my dead trees. I only wish I had a
>>>> foldbox, TARDIS, or bag-of-holding to keep them in.
>>>
>>> Hey, is there anyone trying to do science fiction stories with
>>> bag-of-holding type gimmicks these days? Will McCarthy's wellstones
>>> and whatnot had that application, but I'm not familiar enough with that
>>> realm of the genre to say whether anybody else is playing there.
>>
>> Does "Order of the Stick" count?
>
> They're popping up here and there in the Whateley Universe fanfic series,
> wot I am currently about halfway through of. (Superheroes of various stripes
> find them AWFULLY convenient for various reasons.)

The TARDIS is just such a gimmick, isn't it?


Kip W
rasfw

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <1aa44fd6-88c2-4855...@ou2g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

Really?

I wonder if anyone would buy it. I'm no good at advertising.

I just took a look at Amazon, and they're offering zillions of
copies of the dead-tree version at prices from $2 to $0.01 plus
s/h. And then there are two copies offered by some con artist at
about thirty bucks apiece, labeled "First Edition!"

There was ONLY ONE edition.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <k1h59t$8oo$3...@dont-email.me>,

How many of my books would I be ABLE to put in a Kindle, that's
the question. How many of these pre-Kindle books are to be had
in Kindle format?

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <slrnk3o85...@gatekeeper.vic.com>,

David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>On 8/27/2012 6:13 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> I still have not established that I would be able to read one
>>> (have never seen one in the, so to speak, flesh). If it turned
>>> out that I could read one, then we could move on to the next
>>> problem, getting all my dead trees downloaded to it. Books
>>> published in the 1940s or -50s, and not since.
>>
>>Do you really need ALL of your books in a Kindle to make it worthwhile?
>
>Its advantages of lightness, compactness, take-everywhere-ness, read-
>anywhereness, contain-all-your-books-ness, etc., fail rather drastically
>if one CAN'T have all one's books in it.

Particularly for one who hardly ever gets out of the house except
to grocery shop on Wednesdays and church on Sundays. For such
purposes, I can take my current dead-tree along in the car.

I fully understand about the 'it
>will make getting new books, and some old ones, really really easy!' part ...
>but I don't want a Bag of Book Holding that won't let me put the actual
>books I already have in it.
>
>(And no, I am NOT about to buy everything I have - that CAN be bought, anyway,
>some of it is absolutely positively never appearing in e-form ever - again
>to be put into this new format. Watching the audio progression from cassettes
>and records to 8-tracks to CDs to DVDs to .mp3s, and the video progression
>that parallels it, has convinced me of that long since. It works for some
>people; some people have a lot LESS to transfer each time than I would.)

Good point.

[Kip Williams]

From curiosity, I tried searching for a random book from my collection.
Since it was a couple of feet from my right shoulder, I opened _The
White Deer_ by James Thurber (my favorite of his fantasies) and selected
a phrase. Something about Gallow and jingling. Anyway, I got a match,
from archive.org. This is a good news/bad news kind of thing. Good old
archive has got a lot of items. Badly scanned, or at least very badly
OCR-ed, and with no apparent human intervention of any sort.

Their text version was a wretched mess. Their EPUB was a hideous botch.
The PDF, however, is straight scans, about 10MB worth, but in theory I
could do my own OCR from it, and it could scarcely be worse than archive's.

The best text conversions I know of are from Gutenberg, which has
volunteers who sometimes work in teams and sometimes as individuals.
Caring makes the difference.

But anyway, the method of searching for a likely phrase (likely to be
distinctive: "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" will get too many hits)
shows once again its amazing effectiveness.

Incidentally, the book was taken from a copy at the National Federation
of the Blind. I'd hate to see one of them relying on a computer reading
of the horrid text they extracted from this.


Kip W
rasfw

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <oMV_r.908$cg5...@newsfe09.iad>,

Well, unless you're willing to allow time travel as a segment of
science fiction, as distinguished from fantasy. Which some do,
and some don't.

(Have just watched the episode where the eleventh Doctor plays
football and gets naked but for a towel. Not at the same time.)

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

And there's calibre, of course.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Richard Todd]

slakmagik <j...@hostname.invalid> writes:

> Where can I click on 'Linux'? Everything and its brother supports epub
> _except_ the Kindle, which supports Amazon's proprietary format. And
> nothing _but_ Kindle (and some Apple/Microsoft/Android junk) supports
> that. Kindle stuff is drm-encrypted and there's no legal way (that I

> know of) to view them on my Linux desktop[1]. And why should I have to buy

Kindle Cloud Reader works just fine under Chrome on FreeBSD; I haven't
tried it on Linux, but I expect it works there. Also, the Windows
Kindle app will probably run under Wine on Linux. (I say "probably"
because there may be incompatibilities depending on which version of
both Wine and the Kindle app one tries; the Wine developers have in
the past fixed bugs in Wine that specifically addressed issues with
the Kindle app.)

[Wayne Throop]

: d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
: Its advantages of lightness, compactness, take-everywhere-ness, read-

: anywhereness, contain-all-your-books-ness, etc., fail rather
: drastically if one CAN'T have all one's books in it.

Really? That seems very strange. You also can't take all your dtbooks
with you on a trip; back in the day I'd take 5 or so on a long-ish trip.
Ebooks, I take 200 or so. I do have to leave some behind because they
are composed of dead trees instead of electrons, but I somehow manage to
soldier on through my diappointment.

So, dtbooks: can't take them all; can take 5 or so.
ebooks: can't take them all; can take 200 or so.

Hmmmm. Which is preferable. Hmmmmm. Quite the conundrum.

[Kip Williams]

Wayne Throop wrote, On 8/28/12 12:11 AM:

It's a tough one. I have 452 items on my Kindle, including some short
stories. But since that's what I brought over from my Sony Reader, which
was running out of room, I now have many more MB of storage that I
haven't so much as touched yet, so I could have several times that,
potentially.


Kip W
rasfw

[Wayne Throop]

: Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net>
: The only books I have duplicated so far are Bujold.

I bought Cryoburn in hardcover, so I have the whole Vorkosigan saga
in ebook form at no additional cost of duplication. Plus, of course,
all the CD extras.

So basically, you can have your ebooks at little or no cost to you...
as long as it's baen, and things work out serendipitously. (I haven't
shortchanged LMB; I had essentially all the Vorkosigan saga in dtformat,
and is the only one I don't have in both formats. (One of the things I
carry around in my kindle is the Vorkosigan saga. Including Vorpatril's
Alliance.))

[slakmagik]

If I seem to be sweetness and light regarding ebooks, I'd be even more
so if I started in on 'clouds' so I won't.

Well, I bought my first two and last two ebooks *ever* months ago
(out-of-print that cost hundreds otherwise - which I foolishly
discovered were encrypted only after the fact, so aren't displayable in
- at least a default, legal - calibre) so I fiddled with wine after your
post. I'm a Slackware user running fvwm (fluxbox in a vm for testing,
which is where I made my wine mess) and you're right - it ain't a click
and I don't even get an ubuntu menu :) - but did manage to get it
working eventually. That's a lot of trouble to read two books. But I
noticed something really cute when I was checking registration
information (registration information - it's crippleware until you
register your name/email - I don't recall ever having to register a
paperback for it to open and be read): the kindle on another person's
computer had "expired" and "[could] not be used". I was told to upgrade.
Again, I've never had a paperback expire. Or any decent software,
either, for that matter. And if it's as much fun to install the next
version - which is not guaranteed to work and can thereby cut off access
to my "library" - as this one was, I look forward to the next
"expiration". Assuming they haven't just reached in and deleted my books
anyway, like they hilariously did with Orwell:

http://is.gd/6jZrLJ
(Slate.com)

But again, I'm not yelling at you. There are just an infinite number of
things drastically wrong with ebooks. But thank you for pointing out the
wine thing - I'd experimented with it years ago and it was horrible so I
haven't messed with it since and even more or less forgot about it but
it does seem bearable and workable at least for the moment.

[Kurt Busiek]

On 2012-08-28 02:04:17 +0000, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) said:

> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>> On 8/27/2012 6:13 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> I still have not established that I would be able to read one
>>> (have never seen one in the, so to speak, flesh). If it turned
>>> out that I could read one, then we could move on to the next
>>> problem, getting all my dead trees downloaded to it. Books
>>> published in the 1940s or -50s, and not since.
>>
>> Do you really need ALL of your books in a Kindle to make it worthwhile?
>
> Its advantages of lightness, compactness, take-everywhere-ness, read-
> anywhereness, contain-all-your-books-ness, etc., fail rather drastically
> if one CAN'T have all one's books in it. I fully understand about the 'it
> will make getting new books, and some old ones, really really easy!' part ...
> but I don't want a Bag of Book Holding that won't let me put the actual
> books I already have in it.

Because it's better to have no bag than to have a bag that's only
extremely useful rather than universally so.

kdb
--
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