Hormesis Is Right Out

[Quadibloc]

This news story

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121113134224.htm

seems to refute the idea that a little radiation is good for you.
Heinlein used it at least once in his writings.

John Savard

[Michael Stemper]

In article <00224ce8-3d80-46c5...@m4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> writes:

>This news story
>
>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121113134224.htm
>
>seems to refute the idea that a little radiation is good for you.

I've never heard that idea. Although the article doesn't explictly refer
to that idea, it does still implicitly do so. What they explicilty refer
to is the idea that a little radiation isn't bad for you.

>Heinlein used it at least once in his writings.

He did? What's the example that you have in mind?

I know that it is, or at least was, a common trope in super-hero comics,
with both Superman and the Fantastic Four having radiation-derived powers.
(In the 1960s, anyway. I have no idea what their current "secret origins"
are.)

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
2 + 2 = 5, for sufficiently large values of 2

[James Silverton]

On 11/14/2012 9:31 AM, Michael Stemper wrote:
> In article <00224ce8-3d80-46c5...@m4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>
>> This news story
>>
>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121113134224.htm
>>
>> seems to refute the idea that a little radiation is good for you.
> I've never heard that idea. Although the article doesn't explictly refer
> to that idea, it does still implicitly do so. What they explicilty refer
> to is the idea that a little radiation isn't bad for you.
>
>> Heinlein used it at least once in his writings.
> He did? What's the example that you have in mind?
>
> I know that it is, or at least was, a common trope in super-hero comics,
> with both Superman and the Fantastic Four having radiation-derived powers.
> (In the 1960s, anyway. I have no idea what their current "secret origins"
> are.)
>

A while ago, it was thought that "radiation" had beneficial effects
instead of contributing to the DNA mutation that drives evolution.
Certain spas in Germany, with somewhat radioactive water, used to make
quite a big thing of the benefits.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Wednesday, 14 November 2012 14:31:27 UTC, Michael Stemper wrote:
> ["Radiation is good for you"]

> I know that it is, or at least was, a common trope in super-hero
> comics, with both Superman and the Fantastic Four having
> radiation-derived powers. (In the 1960s, anyway. I have no idea
> what their current "secret origins" are.)

In Superman's case isn't it yellow-sun radiation? Which /is/ good
for you in moderation, in terms of Vitamin D (this isn't stuff that
I'm making up). But bad skin-cancer-wise.

However, instead of Superman perhaps you meant to say "almost
everybody else"; The Hulk, Daredevil, The X-Men some of the time
("The Children of the Atom"), other times it's due to a gene called
"The X-Factor", which went on to have its own comic... okay,
not exactly.

Having said that, it's pretty much a no for Batman, Wonder Woman,
Aquaman, The Flash, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Blue Beetle,
Martian Manhunter, Plastic Man... I"m having trouble thinking of
any except for Superman villains who use Kryptonite as a biological
or mechanical energy source. Oh, and in that case Jimmy Olsen.

Also, in the 1960s Batman show that is currently playing on channel
ITV 4 in Britain, apparently the Bat-Cave and the Batmobile run on
atomic power, and Batman regularly plants a radioactive sample
on a prospective stolen object, or sidekick, in order to be able
later to detect them from clear across town, or indeed from
the Cave itself, 14 miles from the city. Now call me superstitious
and cowardly -

(This week I really thought the Penguin was going to successfully
dispose of Batman and Robin at the end of part one, by hiding a
couple of thugs with machine guns just out of sight to open fire
when they showed up. Penguin's girlfriend was gun-homicidal this
time, too. For a short while it was all surprisingly serious.)

[Greg Goss]

mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:

>In article <00224ce8-3d80-46c5...@m4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>
>>This news story
>>
>>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121113134224.htm
>>
>>seems to refute the idea that a little radiation is good for you.
>
>I've never heard that idea. Although the article doesn't explictly refer
>to that idea, it does still implicitly do so. What they explicilty refer
>to is the idea that a little radiation isn't bad for you.

It comes up from time to time under the word "hormesis" as in the
title here.

The latest I've seen of it was a far east apartment building (Japan?
Korea?). Apparently a piece of medical radiation equipment or some
such was sloppily recycled and made into radioactive rebar. The
building made with that rebar had one floor that was dangerously
radioactive, and many floors that were just slightly radioactive.
According to the storyline, the floors that were slightly radioactive
had much LOWER disease rates than normal. (Wikipedia points out flaws
in that study, and a subsequent one.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis#Effects_of_Cobalt-60_Exposure
--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote in
news:k80b4s$l5t$1...@dont-email.me:

Go back a century or so, and you get Radium Water (tm) as a health
tonic. There's one guy whose bones are still so radioactive they're
dangerous to touch even today.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Shawn Wilson]

Eh. meta-study that starts with 5000 papers and winnpows them down to
*46* for the actual comparison? I am highly skeptical. Allow me to
throw out any 99% of the data I choose and I'll prove that the Sun
rises in the west.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <k80b4s$l5t$1...@dont-email.me>, James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> writes:
>On 11/14/2012 9:31 AM, Michael Stemper wrote:
>> In article <00224ce8-3d80-46c5...@m4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> writes:

>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121113134224.htm
>>>
>>> seems to refute the idea that a little radiation is good for you.
>> I've never heard that idea. Although the article doesn't explictly refer
>> to that idea, it does still implicitly do so. What they explicilty refer
>> to is the idea that a little radiation isn't bad for you.

>A while ago, it was thought that "radiation" had beneficial effects
>instead of contributing to the DNA mutation that drives evolution.
>Certain spas in Germany, with somewhat radioactive water, used to make
>quite a big thing of the benefits.

Now that you mention the spas, I do recall seeing something on that a
couple of years back, either in _National Geographic_ or on PBS.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>

The name of the story is "A Sound of Thunder".
It was written by Ray Bradbury. You're welcome.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <3912245b-d6fb-4015...@googlegroups.com>, Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> writes:
>On Wednesday, 14 November 2012 14:31:27 UTC, Michael Stemper wrote:

>> ["Radiation is good for you"]
>> I know that it is, or at least was, a common trope in super-hero
>> comics, with both Superman and the Fantastic Four having
>> radiation-derived powers. (In the 1960s, anyway. I have no idea
>> what their current "secret origins" are.)
>
>In Superman's case isn't it yellow-sun radiation?

Which was much shorter wave-length and much stronger than what his
race evolved under, yes.

>In Superman's case isn't it yellow-sun radiation? Which /is/ good
>for you in moderation, in terms of Vitamin D (this isn't stuff that
>I'm making up). But bad skin-cancer-wise.

Yeah, exactly.

>However, instead of Superman perhaps you meant to say "almost
>everybody else";

No, not really.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>

[David Dyer-Bennet]

I can place him using the idea that a little radiation is good for the
*species*. But being good for the species is very different from being
good for any single individual. (This was in the discussion of the
military planet he had leave on in Starship Troopers; the background
radiation was lower, and some theoreticians were worried that in the
very long run people there wouldn't evolve to keep up with the rest of
the race due to lower mutation rate.)

Is there one where he plays with the idea of it being good for the
individual?
--
Googleproofaddress(account:dd-b provider:dd-b domain:net)
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

[David Goldfarb]

In article <3912245b-d6fb-4015...@googlegroups.com>,

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>I"m having trouble thinking of
>any except for Superman villains who use Kryptonite as a biological
>or mechanical energy source.

Well, not an energy source exactly, but Kryptonite was an essential
ingredient in the serum which protected Mon-El from the effects of
lead poisoning.

(...and there is at least one Silver Age story which referred to
"lead radiation"...)

--
David Goldfarb |"...I'm a member of the Centre Extremist party.
goldf...@gmail.com | We have very moderate views, but if you don't
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | agree with them, we'll kill you."

[Quadibloc]

On Nov 14, 7:56 am, Robert Carnegie <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:

> In Superman's case isn't it yellow-sun radiation?  Which /is/ good
> for you in moderation, in terms of Vitamin D (this isn't stuff that
> I'm making up).

It used to be it was the "ultra-solar rays" that were peculiar to
yello suns, and which still continuously hit Superman even at night -
like neutrinos.

So this has nothing to do with Vathlo Island's urgent need for cod-
liver oil.

John Savard

[jack....@gmail.com]

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

>Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>
>> This news story
>>
>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121113134224.htm
>>
>> seems to refute the idea that a little radiation is good for you.
>> Heinlein used it at least once in his writings.
>
>I can place him using the idea that a little radiation is good for the
>*species*. But being good for the species is very different from being
>good for any single individual. (This was in the discussion of the
>military planet he had leave on in Starship Troopers; the background
>radiation was lower, and some theoreticians were worried that in the
>very long run people there wouldn't evolve to keep up with the rest of
>the race due to lower mutation rate.)

An example of "solution left as an exercise for the reader"? A major
destination for soldiers on leave? They'll have more new genes coming
in than they'd know what to do with!

>Is there one where he plays with the idea of it being good for the
>individual?

I'm thinking there were analogies made to exposure to germs keeping
your immune system alert, or maybe analogies to cowpox, by someone.

(I'm remembering a slim book on radiation for the general population
from the '50s or '60s. An sf writer turned religious leader
contributed an article about all this worrying of "Got to stop the
radiation" would actually cause your body to stop the penetrating
stuff, with the deleterious effect on your cells.)

--
-Jack

[Robert Carnegie]

Okay... but presumably these "ultra-solar rays" hit everybody else on
Earth, too. But maybe go straight through... like neutrinos.

And there /is/ "natural" radiation of the "not necessarily good for you"
kinds. Cosmic rays... I mean, if you get cosmic awareness, you can
go mad.

[Quadibloc]

On Nov 16, 8:31 am, Robert Carnegie <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:

> Okay... but presumably these "ultra-solar rays" hit everybody else on
> Earth, too.  But maybe go straight through... like neutrinos.

It's indeed precisely because Superman came from a red-sun world
without those rays that they had such an effect on him. Material
objects from Krypton also became indestructible on Earth, thus
explaining his costume in the old continuity.

John Savard

[David Johnston]

I still fondly remember the time Jimmy Olson hit Superman on the head
with a Kandorian rock and knocked him out.