_Issola_ sighting
Kate Nepveu
Tuesday, 6/19/01. Go hound your local bookstore.
Kate
--
http://www.steelypips.org/elsewhere.html -- Paired Reading Page; Reviews
"On a shelf over the experiment table was the inevitable skull, which the
wizard put there to remind him of death, though it usually reminded him
that he needed to go to the dentist." --Bellairs, _The Face in the Frost_
Thomas Yan
Kate Nepveu <kh...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote:
>Four or five copies, Borders, World Trade Center NYC, today,
>Tuesday, 6/19/01. Go hound your local bookstore.
Done! They said they thought it would take 7-10 days to arrive....
--
Thomas Yan (ty...@cs.cornell.edu) I don't speak for Cornell University
Computer Science Department \\ Cornell University \\ Ithaca, NY 14853
(please pardon any lack of capitalization; my hands hurt from typing)
Coyu
>Four or five copies, Borders, World Trade Center NYC, today,
>Tuesday, 6/19/01. Go hound your local bookstore.
Also a few up at the B&N in Chelsea, Manhattan.
No spoilers.
Terry Austin
>Four or five copies, Borders, World Trade Center NYC, today,
>Tuesday, 6/19/01. Go hound your local bookstore.
>
Amazon is shipping, too.
--
Terry Austin <tau...@hyperbooks.com>
http://www.hyperbooks.com/
If you don't use both your left brain and right brain,
you've basically just got half a brain.
-John Rudd
Wisegirl
"Kate Nepveu" <kh...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote in message
news:9gotk9$61h$2...@news.ycc.yale.edu...
> Four or five copies, Borders, World Trade Center NYC, today,
> Tuesday, 6/19/01. Go hound your local bookstore.
>
> Kate
I spied one copy- just one- (Seattle U.W. bookstore, if anyone cares)
yesterday, and got a huge adrenaline rush. Finished it four or so hours
later, and...It's a good book.
Konrad Gaertner
Saw 4 copies in a Barnes & Noble in Richardson Square Mall (near Dallas,
TX).
Ditto the good book comment.
--KG
Christopher Jorgensen
In article <9gpked$7r2$1...@nntp3.u.washington.edu>, "Wisegirl"
<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>I spied one copy- just one- (Seattle U.W. bookstore, if anyone cares)
>yesterday, and got a huge adrenaline rush. Finished it four or so hours
>later, and...It's a good book.
I got it a while back as a reviewer copy. Read it and didn't know
what to think. I've been waiting for it to hit shelves so I could
discuss it. I didn't care for it, but then I didn't like Athyra, Dragon,
or Teckla when they first came out and not at least one of those
is my favorite (after Jhereg) and I like the other two.
Give it a year or two to grow on me.
christopher....
--
Guns don't kill people. Nepalese princes kill people.
For the writings of Christopher L. Jorgensen visit pogrompublishing.com
Kendra Hillman Chilcoat
Random thoughts....
It was a fun four hours, but I would've been happier if Brust hadn't
used the already overused word "ironic" in every other paragraph since
a) there are many, many perfectly adequate synonyms and b)it's pretty
obvious that Vlad and friends are sarcastic folks. We don't need it
spelled out for us over and over and over and over.....
Liked the ending, though I have some qualms about stereotypical ways in
which Vlad's new "feminine side" may be handled. I'm giving Brust the
benefit of the doubt for now and assuming he'll handle it well. I'm
certainly looking forward to finding out in the next book.
I really liked that Vlad's chance to reenter human (or whatever)
society came with a high price. Lots of pain, suffering, sacrifice,
and other things that are intriguing when they happen to people who
aren't me.
--
Kendra Hillman Chilcoat
Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
k-hi...@nwu.edu
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Spoilers, so........
>
> Random thoughts....
>
> It was a fun four hours, but I would've been happier if Brust hadn't
> used the already overused word "ironic" in every other paragraph since
> a) there are many, many perfectly adequate synonyms and b)it's pretty
> obvious that Vlad and friends are sarcastic folks. We don't need it
> spelled out for us over and over and over and over.....
>
To me, the most annoying thing was Vlad's attitude towards his friends.
Also, that weird stream-of-three-consciousnesses bit.
> Liked the ending, though I have some qualms about stereotypical ways in
> which Vlad's new "feminine side" may be handled. I'm giving Brust the
> benefit of the doubt for now and assuming he'll handle it well. I'm
> certainly looking forward to finding out in the next book.
>
Don't count on it. If I was Brust, the next Vlad book would fill in
some of the gaps (like Vlad's trip east between Phoenix and Athyra).
This is the best stopping place for Vlad since Phoenix. And Brust has
already finished a significant portion of _Viscount of Adrilankha_.
> I really liked that Vlad's chance to reenter human (or whatever)
> society came with a high price. Lots of pain, suffering, sacrifice,
> and other things that are intriguing when they happen to people who
> aren't me.
This is what really impressed me. I found Brust's method to be far
more plausible than anything I could think of to get the Jhereg off
Vlad's back.
Favorite quote so far: "Daddy did it. Daddy took their link from them."
--KG
Sean Eric Fagan
Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>Kendra Hillman Chilcoat wrote:
>> Spoilers, so........
>>
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I, for the most part, enjoyed the book considerably. Although I still think
they're too short for hardcover, but I guess I don't begrudge him the money.
My initial comment, after finishing it, was: gosh, when Brust decides to
answer reader questions, he doesn't do it halfway, does he?
That said, I really don't like the bit with Godslayer. We've seen Godslayer
mentioned before in the story, and _Dragon_ seemed to set things up so that
Blackwand, Pathfinder, and Spellbreaker were each part of it -- and that still
didn't handle the problem that Godslayer had been mentioned before, as an
ancient artifact.
Justin Fang
>In article <3B320FD6...@worldnet.att.net>,
>Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Kendra Hillman Chilcoat wrote:
>>> Spoilers, so........
>>>
>>
>>
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>That said, I really don't like the bit with Godslayer. We've seen Godslayer
>mentioned before in the story, and _Dragon_ seemed to set things up so that
>Blackwand, Pathfinder, and Spellbreaker were each part of it -- and that still
>didn't handle the problem that Godslayer had been mentioned before, as an
>ancient artifact.
_Dragon_ HC, page 112:
"The other [Godslayer] was taken by the gods, and an attempt was made to
destroy it." But which presumably only disassembled it. When the
components are brought together again, Vlad manages to reassemble it. I
don't see the problem.
Konrad Gaertner
So was the dagger originally part of Godslayer? On the one hand, there
can't be too many Morganti weapons with human-sized hilts that are
powerful enough to stop Verra from touching the world. On the other
hand, it was really stupid of them to give it to someone carrying the
other part. Which begs the question of how much did they know, and how
do they get their information? I'm trying to picture a reason why
Teldra would tell them Vlad's an assassin.
What I wouldn't give to see this book told from their POV...
--KG
Avram Grumer
jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Justin Fang) wrote:
And none of this jibes with "A Dream of Passion," the Vald story Brust
wrote in 1986 for the Ad Astra convention chapbook.
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix/brust/dream.html
--
Avram Grumer | av...@grumer.org | http://www.PigsAndFishes.org
Andrew Plotkin
Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Favorite quote so far: "Daddy did it. Daddy took their link from them."
*My* favorite: "...it is hard to be comfortable around someone who just
likes you for no reason, when you've always--"
That's Vlad's story in a nutshell, ain't it.
"I *am* cute" was also a great line, one of several which made me
laugh out loud.
And now, speculations which have nothing to do with Spellbreaker:
Sethra says "There is one other Lavode, but he isn't ready yet." Vlad,
or Baby Vlad? I'm guessing the latter.
And then there's this klava thing. I was about to kick Brust in the
shins on page 19, when he casually mentions that klava is made out of
eggshells and vanilla bean. Okay, pick two random silly ingredients.
Why not rubber bands and old broccoli stems?
Then on the next page he *gives instructions*.
I have two theories.
One theory is that for the past ten years, Steven Brust has been
drinking something that tastes like good coffee smells, every morning,
and he just hasn't bothered to mention it to the rest of the world.
I do not put much stock into this theory, because if it were true,
someone would have found out and killed him for the secret.
I have another theory.
This theory states that Steven Brust would *like* to drink something
that tastes like good coffee smells. So he invents a half-plausible
method (neutralize acidity with calcium carbonate, reheat, refilter)
-- plausibility enhanced with advice from a chemical engineer friend.
Then he drops the line into a supersaturation solution of fandom, and
sits back, confident that by next Minicon, one of us will have gotten
it to *work*.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Just once, I'd like to vote for the better of two goods.
Justin Fang
Avram Grumer <av...@grumer.org> wrote:
Oblique spoiler for _Issola_:
>And none of this jibes with "A Dream of Passion," the Vald story Brust
>wrote in 1986 for the Ad Astra convention chapbook.
>http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix/brust/dream.html
Presumably Brust has had A Better Idea (TM) since then.
Coyu
>SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
>
>
C
o
n
t
r
o
l
-
L
>And then there's this klava thing. I was about to kick Brust in the
>shins on page 19, when he casually mentions that klava is made out of
>eggshells and vanilla bean. Okay, pick two random silly ingredients.
>Why not rubber bands and old broccoli stems?
>
>Then on the next page he *gives instructions*.
Eggshell coffee has been around for a long time, but not quite in the
way Vlad describes. It's said to settle the grounds in lumberjack
coffee, for instance. Some people use the hot water to cook a
soft-boiled egg while making coffee.
Same way with the use of the vanilla bean. Like making vanilla sugar.
>I have two theories.
>
>One theory is that for the past ten years, Steven Brust has been
>drinking something that tastes like good coffee smells, every morning,
>and he just hasn't bothered to mention it to the rest of the world.
>
>I do not put much stock into this theory, because if it were true,
>someone would have found out and killed him for the secret.
Well, I drink something that tastes like good coffee most mornings
(unless I am purging myself of residual caffeine) because it *is*
good coffee.
You'll have to step in line with the death threats, though. It's good
to be back on rasfw.
>I have another theory.
>
>This theory states that Steven Brust would *like* to drink something
>that tastes like good coffee smells. So he invents a half-plausible
>method (neutralize acidity with calcium carbonate, reheat, refilter)
>-- plausibility enhanced with advice from a chemical engineer friend.
>Then he drops the line into a supersaturation solution of fandom, and
>sits back, confident that by next Minicon, one of us will have gotten
>it to *work*.
Brust is a good enough writer to make Postum or Sanka sound
delicious.
ObSFCoffeeTip: to kill the metallic taste of instant coffee, add a pinch
of salt. (IMS, Gregory Benford, _Timescape_.)
Michael S. Schiffer
<9h18ij$of0$1...@news.panix.com>:
>SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>...
>And now, speculations which have nothing to do with Spellbreaker:
>Sethra says "There is one other Lavode, but he isn't ready yet."
>Vlad, or Baby Vlad? I'm guessing the latter.
Not at all. It's Morrolan, who will turn out to be the reincarnation
of Sethra's brother, with Vlad's speculating on whether they'd been
lovers turning out to be misdirection. (But, of course, he must learn
*patience* in order to properly use the Forc^W^W pre-Empire sorcery...)
(Great. Now I'm imagining Sethra Lavode with her hair in two cinnamon
buns on either side of her head.)
>And then there's this klava thing. I was about to kick Brust in the
>shins on page 19, when he casually mentions that klava is made out
>of eggshells and vanilla bean. Okay, pick two random silly
>ingredients. Why not rubber bands and old broccoli stems?
Eggshells have traditionally been used in coffee to clarify it.
(Campers apparently still use eggshells to settle the grounds of coffee
brewed over a fire, though there's some argument over whether this
actually works.) If Dragaeran coffee is done like Turkish coffee, with
a sludge of grounds at the bottom, then Klava may just be Dragaera's
only filtered brew, with the vanilla added for flavor. (I don't recall
if there's any mention of filtering regular coffee. Even if there is,
the filters may not be very good, so that refiltering it through the
eggshells improves it.)
Of course, I also wouldn't be shocked if this were an existing coffee
recipe, especially if it came from Hungary.
>...
>This theory states that Steven Brust would *like* to drink something
>that tastes like good coffee smells. So he invents a half-plausible
>method (neutralize acidity with calcium carbonate, reheat, refilter)
Plausibility lessened by the fact that there seems to be widespread
agreement that reheating coffee is not something that enhances the
flavor. (Not being a coffee drinker, I can't speak from experience.)
>-- plausibility enhanced with advice from a chemical engineer friend.
>Then he drops the line into a supersaturation solution of fandom, and
>sits back, confident that by next Minicon, one of us will have gotten
>it to *work*.
If this theory turns out to be correct, let me know. If someone can
produce something that tastes like coffee smells, I'm there.
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS If reading in an archive, please do
ms...@mediaone.net not click on words highlighted as links
msch...@condor.depaul.edu by Deja or other archives. They violate
the author's copyright and his wishes.
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in
> <9h18ij$of0$1...@news.panix.com>:
>
> >SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >...
> >And now, speculations which have nothing to do with Spellbreaker:
>
> >Sethra says "There is one other Lavode, but he isn't ready yet."
> >Vlad, or Baby Vlad? I'm guessing the latter.
>
Baby Vlad can't be more than 4 at this point. I can't see Sethra
considering him even a Lavode-in-training at that age.
> Not at all. It's Morrolan, who will turn out to be the reincarnation
> of Sethra's brother, with Vlad's speculating on whether they'd been
> lovers turning out to be misdirection. (But, of course, he must learn
> *patience* in order to properly use the Forc^W^W pre-Empire sorcery...)
>
> (Great. Now I'm imagining Sethra Lavode with her hair in two cinnamon
> buns on either side of her head.)
>
No, that's Morrolan. Remember the comment that he re-styles his hair
every week?
> >And then there's this klava thing. I was about to kick Brust in the
> >shins on page 19, when he casually mentions that klava is made out
> >of eggshells and vanilla bean. Okay, pick two random silly
> >ingredients. Why not rubber bands and old broccoli stems?
>
> Eggshells have traditionally been used in coffee to clarify it.
> (Campers apparently still use eggshells to settle the grounds of coffee
> brewed over a fire, though there's some argument over whether this
> actually works.)
ObFilm: Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
> If Dragaeran coffee is done like Turkish coffee, with
> a sludge of grounds at the bottom, then Klava may just be Dragaera's
> only filtered brew, with the vanilla added for flavor. (I don't recall
> if there's any mention of filtering regular coffee. Even if there is,
> the filters may not be very good, so that refiltering it through the
> eggshells improves it.)
>
The innkeeper says she doesn't know how to make a klava filter, which
might mean everyone is drinking unfiltered coffee.
> Of course, I also wouldn't be shocked if this were an existing coffee
> recipe, especially if it came from Hungary.
>
Same here.
> >-- plausibility enhanced with advice from a chemical engineer friend.
> >Then he drops the line into a supersaturation solution of fandom, and
> >sits back, confident that by next Minicon, one of us will have gotten
> >it to *work*.
>
I was wondering where the chem. eng. came in, since the bit with the
manacles would be mech. eng.
--KG
J.B. Moreno
> "Michael S. Schiffer" wrote:
> > >Sethra says "There is one other Lavode, but he isn't ready yet."
> > >Vlad, or Baby Vlad? I'm guessing the latter.
> >
> Baby Vlad can't be more than 4 at this point. I can't see Sethra
> considering him even a Lavode-in-training at that age.
Uhm, you're forgetting the business with souls -- and the fact that she
might occasionally visit the Halls of Judgement and get her own glimpses
of the future; she might have thought of him as a Lavode-to-be before
Vlad met Cawti, let alone before the kid is grown.
--
JBM
"Your depression will be added to my own" -- Marvin of Borg
Thomas Yan
Kendra Hillman Chilcoat <k-hi...@nwu.edu> wrote:
>Spoilers, so........
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>Random thoughts....
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>It was a fun four hours,
4-5 hours for me, spread over two days. I didn't read the dust
jacket, so Teldra's appearance was a happy surprise, and I was
surprised at how sad I was when I thought she was dead and gone.
I'm glad it took place chronologically after the other books, but I
want to know what happened/happens to Savn.
>but I would've been happier if Brust hadn't
>used the already overused word "ironic" in every other paragraph since
>a) there are many, many perfectly adequate synonyms and b)it's pretty
>obvious that Vlad and friends are sarcastic folks. We don't need it
>spelled out for us over and over and over and over.....
Now that you point it out, I agree it was overused, but it didn't
bother me much. I was temporarily distracted by what I think is a
typo on page 205, when Morrolan says "...beyond that we've been
doing...". It could be "beyond *what* ...", but that sounds a little
too informal, so I suspect it should be "beyond that which ...".
Also, I think once I mistook a sub-clause as a main clause and had
back up and reread the sentence to understand what it meant.
No real thoughts to share --perhaps after I've had some time to
think-- except that now I wonder if Vlad's addressing an audience is
more than just a stylistic device that Brust is using: is he
addressing Teldra and/or his other weapons, watching gods, or some
other sentiences, or perhaps talking to the Lords of Judgment as they
review his life?
Thomas Yan
>Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Kendra Hillman Chilcoat wrote:
>>> Spoilers, so........
>>>
>>
>>
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>they're too short for hardcover, but I guess I don't begrudge him the money.
I'm happy to see shorter books being published in addition to the
refridgerator-sized books.
>[...] I really don't like the bit with Godslayer. We've seen Godslayer
I liked it. When Vlad says, (approximately), "oh, and perhaps you
figured it out alraedy", I hadn't yet, but then did realize he was
making a Great Weapon but did not yet realize that Teldra was part of
it.
>mentioned before in the story, and _Dragon_ seemed to set things up so that
>Blackwand, Pathfinder, and Spellbreaker were each part of it -- and that still
>didn't handle the problem that Godslayer had been mentioned before, as an
>ancient artifact.
Not part of it, I think, but linked -- part of the same story: when
Pathfinder was found, Godslayer was also likely to show up. Also, the
Serioli indicated that Godslayer was not quite there, but Spellbreaker
would be part of Godslayer (again). It doesn't seem clear to me how
the powerful Morganti blade the Jenoine gave Vlad fits in.
Sean Eric Fagan
Thomas Yan <ty...@twinkie.cs.cornell.edu> wrote:
>>>> Spoilers, so........
>>mentioned before in the story, and _Dragon_ seemed to set things up so that
>>Blackwand, Pathfinder, and Spellbreaker were each part of it -- and that still
>>didn't handle the problem that Godslayer had been mentioned before, as an
>>ancient artifact.
>Not part of it, I think, but linked -- part of the same story: when
>Pathfinder was found, Godslayer was also likely to show up. Also, the
>Serioli indicated that Godslayer was not quite there, but Spellbreaker
>would be part of Godslayer (again). It doesn't seem clear to me how
>the powerful Morganti blade the Jenoine gave Vlad fits in.
Thanks to one of the other responses to my post, I realized I'd misread (or
misremembered, at any rate :)) the appropriate scene in _Dragon_.
I am not sure whether _any_ powerful Morganti blade would have done the trick,
or if, by coincidence or necessity (it was the only one powerful enough to
affect Verra's ability to manifest on Dragaerra), it was one of the original
components of Godslayer. (We seem to have three components to a Great Weapon:
a magical device that gives it its special power, a Morganti blade, and a
soul. But can any Morganti blade suffice, or only certain ones? And would
that explain why there are so many Morganti blades, because the rest are
failures from the efforts to make Great Weapon?)
Anyway, I enjoyed the book a lot. :)
Sean Michael Dilda
Perhaps "A Dream of Passion" was just that, a crazy dream Vlad was having.
Sean Michael Dilda
>Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in
><9h18ij$of0$1...@news.panix.com>:
>
>>SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
>>
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>>...
>>And now, speculations which have nothing to do with Spellbreaker:
>
>>Sethra says "There is one other Lavode, but he isn't ready yet."
>>Vlad, or Baby Vlad? I'm guessing the latter.
>
>Not at all. It's Morrolan, who will turn out to be the reincarnation
>of Sethra's brother, with Vlad's speculating on whether they'd been
>lovers turning out to be misdirection. (But, of course, he must learn
>*patience* in order to properly use the Forc^W^W pre-Empire sorcery...)
It can't be Morrolan. Morrolan is already listed as one of the people going.
If he wasn't ready yet, then he wouldn't be going at all.
Maureen O'Brien
You don't find out about Gharlane's passing until yesterday. <sigh>
You walk in the bookstore not knowing that Issola is there. <smile>
Issola was a good fast couple hours' read. It would have been faster
if I hadn't kept having to stop and croggle. Or grin fanatically.
Or giggle to myself in the middle of the Chinese restaurant.
Lady Teldra was always someone who was just there -- useful, graceful,
helping make the books what they were -- but we never really knew her
until now. That in itself was worth the book.
I'm still trying to absorb some of the really remarkable information
that we learned, and I have no doubt that the implications and
reliability of that info are going to be discussed here for many posts
to come. But frankly, I think it's really too soon to throw out "A
Dream of Passion" with the bathwater.
"I let the gold chain I had misnamed Spellbreaker fall into my
hand...." indicates that "ADoP" takes place before Issola, but is
probably told out after it. The events of this story are probably one
of the reasons Vlad can be said to "know about the windows".
Once you walk through the windows, you can be anywhere, and time passes
differently on the whole. Once you enter a mini-world created by a god,
I think you can assume that time itself is at that god's disposal.
What was to prevent this unnamed goddess from
a) going back in time
b) finding the original Godslayer, which would no doubt have been
Human-sized
c) bringing it forward in time and concealing it on her own world and
d) figuring this was a good way to kill Verra?
Afterward, Vlad might even have been made to forget what happened by
other gods, made nervous by events, and then allowed later to
remember and tell his chronicler.
Another theory -- this was a prophetic dream.
Maureen
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > "Michael S. Schiffer" wrote:
>
> > > >Sethra says "There is one other Lavode, but he isn't ready yet."
> > > >Vlad, or Baby Vlad? I'm guessing the latter.
> > >
> > Baby Vlad can't be more than 4 at this point. I can't see Sethra
> > considering him even a Lavode-in-training at that age.
>
> Uhm, you're forgetting the business with souls -- and the fact that she
> might occasionally visit the Halls of Judgement and get her own glimpses
> of the future; she might have thought of him as a Lavode-to-be before
> Vlad met Cawti, let alone before the kid is grown.
>
that's what she tells Vlad in Taltos.
She can still chat with Verra of course.
And didn't Brust confirm that Cawti is Miklos' daughter? Of course,
Brokedown Palace could have been part of Verra's Ineffable Master Plan
all along (the only way out of her relationship with the royal family?).
While we're talking of Lavodes, Sethra also says that they were
disbanded _before_ the Interregnum. Another major thing Paarfi got
wrong. Any ideas why they'd been disbanded? The Lavode Scandal
sounds most likely, but that happened a while before tPG.
--KG
Konrad Gaertner
>
SPOILERS
>
> I am not sure whether _any_ powerful Morganti blade would have done the trick,
> or if, by coincidence or necessity (it was the only one powerful enough to
> affect Verra's ability to manifest on Dragaerra), it was one of the original
> components of Godslayer. (We seem to have three components to a Great Weapon:
> a magical device that gives it its special power, a Morganti blade, and a
> soul. But can any Morganti blade suffice, or only certain ones? And would
> that explain why there are so many Morganti blades, because the rest are
> failures from the efforts to make Great Weapon?)
>
I believe this will be the primary discussion topic for a while (once
the klava recipe is proven/disproven).
That ain't a typical Morganti weapon... it's damn powerful, with a
human (Easterner) sized hilt. If it was part of the original
Godslayer, it might have adjusted itself for Vlad (or been adjusted
by the gods when they realized they couldn't destroy it completely).
What would you call that kind of weapon anyway? Eighteen inches is
_long_ for a knife. Would it be appropriate for a machete (yes, I know
it's weighted wrong for that)? Did they use knives like that in
slaughterhouses?
And why couldn't Sethra find M&A? Even if Path and SB were linked,
Vlad searched for (and found) Blackwand instead.
While thinking about Great Weapon personalities, it occurred to me
who's might be in Pathfinder. Of course, it depends on how/why it
was disguised and other stuff we don't know, but it seems (to me) to
fit Vlad's impressions.
Hmmm... One of the top assassins on that world, wielding the most
powerful weapon ever created, which [now] has the personality of the
epitome of courtliness and surprise. Be afraid, be very afraid.
--KG
David Dyer-Bennet
> SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
>
>
>
> And then there's this klava thing. I was about to kick Brust in the
> shins on page 19, when he casually mentions that klava is made out of
> eggshells and vanilla bean. Okay, pick two random silly ingredients.
> Why not rubber bands and old broccoli stems?
>
> Then on the next page he *gives instructions*.
>
> I have two theories.
>
> One theory is that for the past ten years, Steven Brust has been
> drinking something that tastes like good coffee smells, every morning,
> and he just hasn't bothered to mention it to the rest of the world.
>
> I do not put much stock into this theory, because if it were true,
> someone would have found out and killed him for the secret.
>
> I have another theory.
>
> This theory states that Steven Brust would *like* to drink something
> that tastes like good coffee smells. So he invents a half-plausible
> method (neutralize acidity with calcium carbonate, reheat, refilter)
> -- plausibility enhanced with advice from a chemical engineer friend.
> Then he drops the line into a supersaturation solution of fandom, and
> sits back, confident that by next Minicon, one of us will have gotten
> it to *work*.
Several people around here have said "Oh, that's swedish coffee". I
wouldn't know myself, but nobody has mentioned it in the thread yet so
I'm tossing it in.
(For myself, I don't think it even *smells* good. The taste is vile
beyond description.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd...@dd-b.net
SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/
Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
Thomas Yan
>
>"I *am* cute" was also a great line, one of several which made me
>laugh out loud.
Heh, I liked that one, too.
I don't know if I exclaimed aloud when Teldra showed up, but I laughed
at "it would be wrong of me to put unfair pressure on you, but [Tukko]
knows how to brew klava", etc.
Thomas Yan
Maureen O'Brien <mob...@dnaco.net> wrote:
***spoilers***
>[...] I think it's really too soon to throw out "A
>Dream of Passion" with the bathwater.
Maybe not all of it, but much of it must be modified.
>"I let the gold chain I had misnamed Spellbreaker fall into my
>hand...." indicates that "ADoP" takes place before Issola, but is
>probably told out after it. The events of this story are probably one
>of the reasons Vlad can be said to "know about the windows". [...]
I don't think that, as written, it can take place before Issola:
"He was off at Dzur Mountain when the alarms went off.
I was visiting his home, and I used to run his security,
so I felt obligated to at least look into it."
and the fact that Issola is the first time that Vlad returns to the
castle since going on the run indicates to me the events would have to
happen later. Plus,
"I rushed there as fast as I could, which wasn't as fast as I
could have a few years before."
suggests advancing age and/or permanent injury to me.
Plus, he mentions
"Kragar was long dead anyway"
which has not happened yet in Issola and reminds me of a question:
Why doesn't he mention Rocza's presence or lack thereof?
Thomas Yan
Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>Sean Eric Fagan wrote:
>>
>SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I am not sure whether _any_ powerful Morganti blade would have done
>> the trick, or if, by coincidence or necessity (it was the only one
>> powerful enough to affect Verra's ability to manifest on
>> Dragaerra), it was one of the original components of Godslayer.
>> (We seem to have three components to a Great Weapon: a magical
>> device that gives it its special power, a Morganti blade, and a
>> soul. But can any Morganti blade suffice, or only certain ones?
If a soul is required, whose was the original soul, and what happened to it?
Was each Great Weapon created by someone who linked their own soul
with that of another's, locked in the weapon? How did Aliera's soul
get linked to Pathfinder -- did she have to put her awareness into it?
I don't get the impression that she mixed another's soul into it.
>[...]
>While thinking about Great Weapon personalities, it occurred to me
>who's might be in Pathfinder. Of course, it depends on how/why it
>was disguised and other stuff we don't know, but it seems (to me) to
>fit Vlad's impressions. [...]
Please remind me: what were Vlad's impressions? I don't remember what
he thought about Pathfinder. And who do you think is in Pathfinder?
It seems like you are suggesting that perhaps Mario and Aliera were
lovers and loved each other and were Devera's parents and that Mario
is in Pathfinder, but it seems like Mario is still up and about, so
I'm not sure what you are thinking....
Konrad Gaertner
>
> In article <9h18ij$of0$1...@news.panix.com>,
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> >SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >[...]
> >
> >"I *am* cute" was also a great line, one of several which made me
> >laugh out loud.
>
> Heh, I liked that one, too.
>
> I don't know if I exclaimed aloud when Teldra showed up, but I laughed
> at "it would be wrong of me to put unfair pressure on you, but [Tukko]
> knows how to brew klava", etc.
For me, Teldra's appearance was spoiled by the reviews, but I still
loved the fact that the very first words out of Vlad's mouth were
"You can't be who you sound like."
I can't think of any other author who has such great lines for
starting conversations, especially in _Taltos_.
--KG
Thomas Yan
Ok, I've thought of a bunch of questions.
Anyone want to tie in Teldra saying "I'm afraid if I come any closer
you might do something I'd regret" and Vlad saying "we'll both be
better off if you let me handle things" to later events in the book?
Do we now know why the Necromancer and Vlad are fond of each other?
Namely, Vlad has a Great Weapon, so its connections with death
interest the Necromancer, and Vlad for some reason returns the
Necromancer's sympathy? Except that Vlad does not seem suspicious of
the Necromancer, but he did question Teldra's sincerity of affection
-- why the discrepancy?
And damn it, Sethra-as-Kiera says in _Orca_ that Vlad doesn't know why
she likes or is kind to him, and neither does she -- what's up with
that?
(Did anyone else have trouble with "As they sit those who are
considered worthy are brought to them" at the bottom of page 38? It
reminds me of "The horse raced past the barn fell": I read "sit" as a
transitive verb, with "those" as its object.)
Kate Nepveu
Spoilers for _Dragon_ and _Issola_.
> >
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> No real thoughts to share --perhaps after I've had some time to
> think-- except that now I wonder if Vlad's addressing an audience is
> more than just a stylistic device that Brust is using: is he
> addressing Teldra and/or his other weapons, watching gods, or some
> other sentiences, or perhaps talking to the Lords of Judgment as they
> review his life?
He's talking into an alien tape-recorder. Recall _Dragon_ and the
shiny metal box with presumed-ears-at-both-ends.
Kate
--
http://www.steelypips.org/elsewhere.html -- Paired Reading Page; Reviews
"On a shelf over the experiment table was the inevitable skull, which the
wizard put there to remind him of death, though it usually reminded him
that he needed to go to the dentist." --Bellairs, _The Face in the Frost_
Konrad Gaertner
>
> ***spoilers for _Orca_, _Issola_, and possibly the other books***
>
>
> Do we now know why the Necromancer and Vlad are fond of each other?
> Namely, Vlad has a Great Weapon, so its connections with death
> interest the Necromancer, and Vlad for some reason returns the
> Necromancer's sympathy? Except that Vlad does not seem suspicious of
> the Necromancer, but he did question Teldra's sincerity of affection
> -- why the discrepancy?
>
I can't figure out the Necromancer... We're told she's a demon, and
that demons don't bother with the world unless summoned, so who
summoned her? Verra? Sethra? And her conversation with Vlad at the
end was really different from anything we'd heard from her before. It
sounded like something Kiera, Sethra, or Cawti would say.
> And damn it, Sethra-as-Kiera says in _Orca_ that Vlad doesn't know why
> she likes or is kind to him, and neither does she -- what's up with
> that?
>
Possibly a reference to the fact that they were once siblings. Still
don't see why Sethra would feel guilt.
--KG
David Silberstein
I was under the impression that it was supposed to be Drien (founder
of the line). Sethra said that Drien was possibly male, and changed
to female, or possibly the other way around. Vlad's sense of
Pathfinder was that its personality was not strongly male or female.
I don't see why it would have to have been Mario. It's possible to
be loved by more that one person, after all.
Also, Mario is not Deverra's father, although that's a spoiler
which is not otherwise germane.
Another thought - remember that Aliera's soul was trapped in a staff
for a while? I wonder if that staff could have been used as a Great
Weapon - or perhaps the wizard was experimenting with creating one?
Sean Eric Fagan
David Silberstein <dav...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>SPOILERS
>Sethra said that Drien was possibly male, and changed
>to female, or possibly the other way around.
I believe that was Teldra, no? Sethra would have been there to know.
>Another thought - remember that Aliera's soul was trapped in a staff
>for a while? I wonder if that staff could have been used as a Great
>Weapon - or perhaps the wizard was experimenting with creating one?
Huh. And he did have Spellbreaker, as well.
Konrad Gaertner
> >SPOILERS
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >>
Thomas Yan wrote:
>
> In article <3B369561...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
> >While thinking about Great Weapon personalities, it occurred to me
> >who's might be in Pathfinder. Of course, it depends on how/why it
> >was disguised and other stuff we don't know, but it seems (to me) to
> >fit Vlad's impressions. [...]
>
> Please remind me: what were Vlad's impressions? I don't remember what
> he thought about Pathfinder. And who do you think is in Pathfinder?
> It seems like you are suggesting that perhaps Mario and Aliera were
> lovers and loved each other and were Devera's parents and that Mario
> is in Pathfinder, but it seems like Mario is still up and about, so
> I'm not sure what you are thinking....
Vlad's impressions of Pathfinder were genderless apathy, compared to
Blackwand who was a female psycho.
I thought of Mario right after sending my post. And now that I think
of it, no one has claimed to have seen him since Adron's Disaster.
When I wrote the above post, I was thinking of the last chapter and
epilogue of _Dragon_. I'm assuming that Pathfinder was 'complete'
when revealed then, and that it wasn't when Baritt had it.
--KG
Avram Grumer
In article <GFI72...@kithrup.com>,
dav...@kithrup.com (David Silberstein) wrote:
> Another thought - remember that Aliera's soul was trapped in a staff
> for a while? I wonder if that staff could have been used as a Great
> Weapon - or perhaps the wizard was experimenting with creating one?
Bingo! I mean, I don't have any inside info on this, but that idea
works really well, since it was while raiding that wizard's workshop
that Vlad found Spellbreaker. It makes a lot of sense.
--
Avram Grumer | av...@grumer.org | http://www.PigsAndFishes.org
Thomas Yan
Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>Thomas Yan wrote:
>>
>> ***spoilers for _Orca_, _Issola_, and possibly the other books***
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Do we now know why the Necromancer and Vlad are fond of each other?
>> Namely, Vlad has a Great Weapon, so its connections with death
>> interest the Necromancer, and Vlad for some reason returns the
>> Necromancer's sympathy? Except that Vlad does not seem suspicious of
>> the Necromancer, but he did question Teldra's sincerity of affection
>> -- why the discrepancy?
>>
>I can't figure out the Necromancer... We're told she's a demon, and
>that demons don't bother with the world unless summoned, so who
Do you remember where this is? I vaguely remember it, but am not sure
which book it's in.
>summoned her? Verra? Sethra?
I have a related question. On page 36, Sethra says "gods ... are not
subject to the forcible control of any other being; this latter
marking the difference between a god and a demon". I find that to be
ambiguous:
+ a god *cannot*, but a demon *can* be subject to control?
+ a demon is, by definition, currently/actively under control?
Sethra advising Vlad to not try to control the Necromancer suggests
the former --by definition, a god cannot be subject to control, but a
demon can, so the Necromancer's reins are up for grabs-- but if it is
the latter, then as you say, who is controling her?
>And her conversation with Vlad at the
>end was really different from anything we'd heard from her before. It
>sounded like something Kiera, Sethra, or Cawti would say.
Hm. I'll have to think about it, and reread the bit in _Dragon_ where
she talks to Vlad as he is dreamwalking (term?).
>> And damn it, Sethra-as-Kiera says in _Orca_ that Vlad doesn't know why
>> she likes or is kind to him, and neither does she -- what's up with
>> that?
>>
>Possibly a reference to the fact that they were once siblings. Still
>don't see why Sethra would feel guilt.
Er, are you sure? In _Jhereg_, we learn that Aliera, Kieron, and
Dolivar/Vlad were siblings, but I don't think Sethra was one of their
siblings.
(Oh yeah, unlike in _Jhereg_, where we knew only that "there were
originally about 30 distinct tribes", we now know there were exactly
31.)
David Silberstein
>In article <GFI72...@kithrup.com>,
>David Silberstein <dav...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>>SPOILERS
>>Sethra said that Drien was possibly male, and changed
>>to female, or possibly the other way around.
>
>I believe that was Teldra, no? Sethra would have been there to know.
I'm pretty sure you're right about that, now that I think about it.
(Book's at home)
It was while Vlad was quizzing Lady Teldra about Morrolan (e'Drien)'s
history, not during Sethra's long explanation about the Jenoine and
the gods and such.
Anyone here know Hungarian? I'm curious what Morrolan's Fenarian name
means (and therefore what "Morrolan" means)...
Konrad Gaertner
> >> ***spoilers for _Orca_, _Issola_, and possibly the other books***
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Thomas Yan wrote:
>
> In article <3B37A4F2...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
> >Thomas Yan wrote:
> >>
> >> Do we now know why the Necromancer and Vlad are fond of each other?
> >> Namely, Vlad has a Great Weapon, so its connections with death
> >> interest the Necromancer, and Vlad for some reason returns the
> >> Necromancer's sympathy? Except that Vlad does not seem suspicious of
> >> the Necromancer, but he did question Teldra's sincerity of affection
> >> -- why the discrepancy?
> >>
> >I can't figure out the Necromancer... We're told she's a demon, and
> >that demons don't bother with the world unless summoned, so who
>
> Do you remember where this is? I vaguely remember it, but am not sure
> which book it's in.
>
based on the scene you quote below.
> I have a related question. On page 36, Sethra says "gods ... are not
> subject to the forcible control of any other being; this latter
> marking the difference between a god and a demon". I find that to be
> ambiguous:
>
> + a god *cannot*, but a demon *can* be subject to control?
Yes.
> + a demon is, by definition, currently/actively under control?
No. Any god/goddess who becomes bound is reclassified as a demon.
This was mentioned in one of the early books (I'm guessing Jhereg or
Taltos).
Verra's epithet appears to be deliberately ambiguous (as in only
Easterners can control her, or only Easterners _think_ she can be
controlled).
>
> Sethra advising Vlad to not try to control the Necromancer suggests
> the former --by definition, a god cannot be subject to control, but a
> demon can, so the Necromancer's reins are up for grabs-- but if it is
> the latter, then as you say, who is controling her?
>
> >And her conversation with Vlad at the
> >end was really different from anything we'd heard from her before. It
> >sounded like something Kiera, Sethra, or Cawti would say.
>
> Hm. I'll have to think about it, and reread the bit in _Dragon_ where
> she talks to Vlad as he is dreamwalking (term?).
>
I'd forgotten about that scene. But she seems awfully aloof the other
times we see her. Of course, she might view 'time' as something that
happens to other people.
> >> And damn it, Sethra-as-Kiera says in _Orca_ that Vlad doesn't know why
> >> she likes or is kind to him, and neither does she -- what's up with
> >> that?
> >>
> >Possibly a reference to the fact that they were once siblings. Still
> >don't see why Sethra would feel guilt.
>
> Er, are you sure? In _Jhereg_, we learn that Aliera, Kieron, and
> Dolivar/Vlad were siblings, but I don't think Sethra was one of their
> siblings.
>
I'll have to re-read that section, but she was at least a close
friend to the family back then, and says she knew then that the four
of them were chosen by the gods.
--KG
Lee Ann Rucker
Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > + a demon is, by definition, currently/actively under control?
> No. Any god/goddess who becomes bound is reclassified as a demon.
> This was mentioned in one of the early books (I'm guessing Jhereg or
> Taltos).
>
> Verra's epithet appears to be deliberately ambiguous (as in only
> Easterners can control her, or only Easterners _think_ she can be
> controlled).
Or, Verra controls some demons, or is the goddess that demons pray to.
Lee Ann Rucker
> >SPOILERS (for Issola)
> >
> >
Spoiler for the very end of the book. You have been warned.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
It occurs to me that the wizard who originally had Spellbreaker might
have been considering combining Aliera's captured soul with it - he did
seem more upset when Vlad grabbed Spellbreaker than when they grabbed
Aliera. Captured souls are rare, but not so rare as proto-Great Weapons.
Konrad Gaertner
.
.
.
I was thinking of the line when they brought Verra to the Jenoine
place, and Aliera said that only Vlad could think of Verra as a demon.
Also, in Brokedown Palace, it seems as if the Fenarian royal family
has bound her to grant one wish for each king.
--KG
Andrew Plotkin
> In article <3B37A4F2...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
> ***spoilers for _Orca_, _Issola_, and possibly the other books***
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>that demons don't bother with the world unless summoned, so who
> Do you remember where this is? I vaguely remember it, but am not sure
> which book it's in.
Both of those databits are from _Issola_.
I felt that the latter (demons don't bother with the world unless
summoned) was a generalization. It's possible for a Dragarean to
become a god. I assume it's also possible for a Dragarean to *try* to
become a god, but fail -- someone gets his hooks into you, and presto,
all the magical pooh-bahs shake their heads and say "Sorry, guess you
only made it to demon status."
If this is what happened to the Necromancer, she wouldn't
automatically lose all interest in the Empire. She'd still hang out,
unless summoned elsewhere.
>>summoned her? Verra? Sethra?
> I have a related question. On page 36, Sethra says "gods ... are not
> subject to the forcible control of any other being; this latter
> marking the difference between a god and a demon". I find that to be
> ambiguous:
> + a god *cannot*, but a demon *can* be subject to control?
> + a demon is, by definition, currently/actively under control?
> Sethra advising Vlad to not try to control the Necromancer suggests
> the former --by definition, a god cannot be subject to control, but a
> demon can, so the Necromancer's reins are up for grabs-- but if it is
> the latter, then as you say, who is controling her?
I'm betting on the former, not the latter. It would be inconvenient if
a being's status fluctuated between "god" and "demon" as summoners
came and went. (I mean inconvenient in a linguistic sense -- why would
magical theorists define the terms that way?)
I also assume that just because the Necromancer is a demon, it doesn't
mean *anyone* can control her.
On Verra: okay, so the Fenarians have a limited and minor bond over
her. Perhaps she permits this?
(The word "forcible" in the definition is *really* interesting. It
implies that a god can *give* you control over it. It further implies
that this exception is *important* -- either it happens frequently, or
it happened once, memorably. Verra may be that exception.)
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Call him "George the Third". (Hint: the First never told a lie.)
Michael Brazier
wrote:
>In article <3B37A4F2...@worldnet.att.net>,
>Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Thomas Yan wrote:
>>>
>>> ***spoilers for _Orca_, _Issola_, and possibly the other books***
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Do we now know why the Necromancer and Vlad are fond of each other?
>>> Namely, Vlad has a Great Weapon, so its connections with death
>>> interest the Necromancer, and Vlad for some reason returns the
>>> Necromancer's sympathy? Except that Vlad does not seem suspicious of
>>> the Necromancer, but he did question Teldra's sincerity of affection
>>> -- why the discrepancy?
>>>
>>I can't figure out the Necromancer... We're told she's a demon, and
>>that demons don't bother with the world unless summoned, so who
>>summoned her? Verra? Sethra?
>
>Do you remember where this is? I vaguely remember it, but am not sure
>which book it's in.
It's in _Issola_, as part of Sethra's lecture on gods, demons, and the
Jenoine.
I'd say the Necromancer is a Dragaeran-turned-demon, and therefore (unlike
most demons) has a strong interest in her old home.
>I have a related question. On page 36, Sethra says "gods ... are not
>subject to the forcible control of any other being; this latter
>marking the difference between a god and a demon". I find that to be
>ambiguous:
>
>+ a god *cannot*, but a demon *can* be subject to control?
>+ a demon is, by definition, currently/actively under control?
>
>Sethra advising Vlad to not try to control the Necromancer suggests
>the former --by definition, a god cannot be subject to control, but a
>demon can, so the Necromancer's reins are up for grabs-- but if it is
>the latter, then as you say, who is controling her?
As I read _Issola_, the defining trait of demons is the ability to
bilocate; gods actually are demons with an extra trait, that they cannot be
controlled. And I would suggest that the "control" in question is really
control of movement, not mental control or compelled obedience. That is, a
demon can manifest in several places, but can also be _forced_ to manifest,
or at least to remain manifested against its will; whereas a god can be
summoned, but need not answer, and can withdraw at any time. (We do know
that gods can be prevented from manifesting in some places -- Verra cannot
enter Fenario -- but they certainly can't be imprisoned.)
--
Michael Brazier But what are all these gaieties to me
Whose thoughts are full of indices and surds?
X^2 + 7X + 53 = 11/3
-- Lewis Carroll
Thomas Yan
Lee Ann Rucker <laru...@apple.com> wrote:
>In article <3B37C8A3...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> Verra's epithet appears to be deliberately ambiguous (as in only
>> Easterners can control her, or only Easterners _think_ she can be
>> controlled).
>
>Or, Verra controls some demons, or is the goddess that demons pray to.
On page 36, Sethra says "you call [Verra] the Demon Goddess. That
name--but never mind that now." Argh! *What* about that name?! :)
Michael S. Schiffer
0E1680.173...@news.apple.com>:
Or it reflects the fact that she started out a Jenoine servant (and
thus controlled, and thus a demon) and later became a goddess.
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS
ms...@mediaone.net
msch...@condor.depaul.edu
Thomas Yan
Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ***spoilers for _Orca_, _Issola_, and possibly the other books***
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>Thomas Yan wrote:
>>
>> In article <3B37A4F2...@worldnet.att.net>,
>> Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >I can't figure out the Necromancer... We're told she's a demon, and
>>
>> Do you remember where this is? I vaguely remember it, but am not sure
>> which book it's in.
>>
>I must not understand your question, since my comments were entriely
>based on the scene you quote below.
Sorry, you understand fine: I'm confused is all [1].
[1] Late last night, I decided to re-read the book. I got to about
page 38, found the sentence I remembered having trouble parsing,
thought of or remembered a bunch of questions, and said to myself:
my job for today is done, time for bed. So I hadn't (and still
haven't) reached the end of the chapter, which is where that bit
about not bothering was said.
Plus, Vlad said he already knew that gods/demons could manifest
simultaneously in 2 or more places and the difference between a
god and a demon, and I do remember reading that before. So I
thought that I had also read in an earlier book that demons don't
bother with the world, but couldn't think of which other book it
was in.
>> [...]
>> >[the Necromancer's] conversation with Vlad at the
>> >end was really different from anything we'd heard from her before. It
>> >sounded like something Kiera, Sethra, or Cawti would say.
>>
>> Hm. I'll have to think about it, and reread the bit in _Dragon_ where
>> she talks to Vlad as he is dreamwalking (term?).
>>
>I'd forgotten about that scene. But she seems awfully aloof the other
>times we see her. Of course, she might view 'time' as something that
>happens to other people.
I guess that's true: emotionally detached, and Vlad emphasizes that she has a
rather different perspective on things, which probably translates into
a certain distance and aloofness, too.
While it is the case that when Vlad asks "Has anything exciting been
happening in Adrilankha lately?", she replies that "[she's] afraid
[she doesn't] keep up on such matters", I agree that she does not
appear aloof in that final encounter, where she says/suggests/asks:
Sethra will be the one to tell Morrolan about Teldra, Vlad has less to
fear from the Jhereg, his grandfather would like to see him, Vlad is
sounding surprisingly public-spirited due to Teldra's influence, she
will miss both Vlad and Teldra, and does he want to wait for Sethra
and Aliera to return before teleporting to Valabar's.
>> >> And damn it, Sethra-as-Kiera says in _Orca_ that Vlad doesn't know why
>> >> she likes or is kind to him, and neither does she -- what's up with
>> >> that?
I've tracked down the passage in my paperback copy. On pages 245-246,
Kiera is talking aloud to Savn, and wonders why Rocza watches over
him, and continues:
"Although I suppose it's reasonable to wonder why anyone watches over
anyone. Vlad still doesn't know why I watch over him [(!)], you
know....Come to that,...I'm not altogether sure myself....[Guilt's]
part of it....I shouldn't still feel guilty over Vlad. It was a long
time ago and, well, we all do what we have to."
(Also, on page 4, Kiera thinks to herself, "I've always trusted him,
even before I had reason to", which is kind of interesting.)
>> >Possibly a reference to the fact that they were once siblings. Still
>> >don't see why Sethra would feel guilt.
>>
>> Er, are you sure? In _Jhereg_, we learn that Aliera, Kieron, and
>> Dolivar/Vlad were siblings, but I don't think Sethra was one of their
>> siblings.
>>
>I'll have to re-read that section, but she was at least a close
>friend to the family back then, and says she knew then that the four
>of them were chosen by the gods.
On page 83 of _The Book of Jhereg_, Aliera says:
"Sethra was there, as Sethra.... She is, quite literally, older
than the Empire.... Sethra...missed--deliberately. I saw, but I
didn't say anything. Perhaps that makes me responsible for my
brother's death, later.... We started out as one family. Keiron,
Dolivar, and I."
So Sethra is, in part, guilty [2] for Dolivar's death. However,
according to her, that does not fully account for why she watches over
him: So why *does* she watch over him?
[2] The details are murky: "Sethra was supposed to hamstring the yendi",
but how did her failure to do so lead/relate to the other events,
and what is their chronology: Doliver shaming himself and the
whole tribe, Dolivar backing Kieron into a corner, Dolivar getting
tortured and expelled, Dolivar betraying them.
Kate Nepveu
> SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
> Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > Favorite quote so far: "Daddy did it. Daddy took their link from them."
The one that made me splutter out loud was "I was afraid Daddy would
cause trouble sooner or later."
> *My* favorite: "...it is hard to be comfortable around someone who just
> likes you for no reason, when you've always--"
> That's Vlad's story in a nutshell, ain't it.
Oh yes. It's good to see that he's starting to recognize that.
> "I *am* cute" was also a great line, one of several which made me
> laugh out loud.
I also liked:
"But did you make that translation in your head, or was it automatic."
". . . It was automatic."
"That's the beginning of thinking in the language."
"*Like whenever I make a comment, Boss, and you say --*"
"*Shut up, Loiosh.*"
Dr. Faustus
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in
> <9h18ij$of0$1...@news.panix.com>:
>SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >And now, speculations which have nothing to do with Spellbreaker:
>
> >Sethra says "There is one other Lavode, but he isn't ready yet."
> >Vlad, or Baby Vlad? I'm guessing the latter.
>
> Not at all. It's Morrolan.
Of all the characters we've met so far, it seems most likely to be
Vlad. For one thing, as a short-lived Easterner, he's changing more
quickly than any Dragaeran characters. And it seems likely that the
Lavodes will re-form within the cycle of Vlad novels. For another,
he's clearly not ready at the start of the novel. By the end, he's
definitely more powerful and (Teldra's influence) probably more
mature than he was when the statement was made.
But if it's not Vlad, then my money is on Morrolan as well. We get
a very different picture of Morrolan in _Issola_. His youth has
never been so obvious before.
Favorite quote of the series: "Shut up, Loiosh."
--
Dr. Faustus
fau...@pureevil.org
David Dyer-Bennet
> ***spoilers for _Orca_, _Issola_, and possibly the other books***
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ok, I've thought of a bunch of questions.
>
> Anyone want to tie in Teldra saying "I'm afraid if I come any closer
> you might do something I'd regret" and Vlad saying "we'll both be
> better off if you let me handle things" to later events in the book?
>
> Do we now know why the Necromancer and Vlad are fond of each other?
> Namely, Vlad has a Great Weapon, so its connections with death
> interest the Necromancer, and Vlad for some reason returns the
> Necromancer's sympathy? Except that Vlad does not seem suspicious of
> the Necromancer, but he did question Teldra's sincerity of affection
> -- why the discrepancy?
>
> And damn it, Sethra-as-Kiera says in _Orca_ that Vlad doesn't know why
> she likes or is kind to him, and neither does she -- what's up with
> that?
>
> (Did anyone else have trouble with "As they sit those who are
> considered worthy are brought to them" at the bottom of page 38? It
> reminds me of "The horse raced past the barn fell": I read "sit" as a
> transitive verb, with "those" as its object.)
They "sit" in the sense that judges do; special usage. They are,
after all judges.
David Silberstein
Thomas Yan <ty...@yodel.cs.cornell.edu> wrote:
>In article <3B366E8...@dnaco.net>,
>Maureen O'Brien <mob...@dnaco.net> wrote:
>
>***spoilers***
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>[...] I think it's really too soon to throw out "A
>>Dream of Passion" with the bathwater.
>
>Maybe not all of it, but much of it must be modified.
>
>>"I let the gold chain I had misnamed Spellbreaker fall into my
>>hand...." indicates that "ADoP" takes place before Issola, but is
>>probably told out after it. The events of this story are probably one
>>of the reasons Vlad can be said to "know about the windows". [...]
>
>I don't think that, as written, it can take place before Issola:
>
> "He was off at Dzur Mountain when the alarms went off.
> I was visiting his home, and I used to run his security,
> so I felt obligated to at least look into it."
>
>and the fact that Issola is the first time that Vlad returns to the
>castle since going on the run indicates to me the events would have to
>happen later. Plus,
(snip other probable reasons why ADoP takes place after Issola - probably
LONG after)
I also have the following thought - is there any reason why the golden
hilt might not be separatible from the rest of the weapon, turning
back into a chain in the process? Perhaps it was forcibly separated
from the rest of the weapon sometime in the future (after Issola,
I mean)?
David Silberstein
David Silberstein <dav...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
>Anyone here know Hungarian? I'm curious what Morrolan's Fenarian name
>means (and therefore what "Morrolan" means)...
>
(following up to myself...)
I found an online Hungarian-English dictionary, and I *think* I
got it to behave.
In Latin characters, no accents, the name is:
Sotetcsilleg
with accents (o-diaresis, e-accent-acute):
Sötétcsilleg
According to the dictionary:
sötét
1. dark, dim
csillag
1. star
Darkstar? That sounds about right. And also familiar, for some reason.
Thomas Yan
Kate Nepveu <kh...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote:
>Thomas Yan (ty...@twinkie.cs.cornell.edu) wrote:
>
>Spoilers for _Dragon_ and _Issola_.
>
>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>> more than just a stylistic device that Brust is using: is he
>> addressing Teldra and/or his other weapons, watching gods, or some
>> other sentiences, or perhaps talking to the Lords of Judgment as they
>> review his life?
>
>He's talking into an alien tape-recorder. Recall _Dragon_ and the
>shiny metal box with presumed-ears-at-both-ends.
Ah, thanks. I see that at the end, Vlad says to Cawti, "Eventually I
have to go put this whole thing behind me by having a last session
with an odd metal box....". I guess that didn't make much sense to
me, but didn't seem so puzzling that it stuck in my mind, so I had
forgotten it.
I take it we don't know anything more about the box, nor what "have
to" means: if he actually is obligated to do so, or it is simply a
useful exercise for putting events behind him.
(I am reminded of the mysterious box that Gideon had in "B5:
Crusades".)
Justin Fang
Sean Michael Dilda <smd...@norathar.stat.ncsu.edu> wrote:
>On 23 Jun 2001 16:56:00 GMT, Michael S. Schiffer <ms...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>>Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in
>><9h18ij$of0$1...@news.panix.com>:
>>
>>>SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
>>>
>>>Sethra says "There is one other Lavode, but he isn't ready yet."
>>>Vlad, or Baby Vlad? I'm guessing the latter.
>>Not at all. It's Morrolan, who will turn out to be the reincarnation
>It can't be Morrolan. Morrolan is already listed as one of the people going.
>If he wasn't ready yet, then he wouldn't be going at all.
By that reasoning, it can't be Vlad, either. If it's someone we've already
seen (which it doesn't have to be, of course), Mario would fit better than
Vlad Jr. Mario is at least an adult, and, not being an Easterner, won't
keel over from old age just when you finally have him properly trained.
(All assuming Mario is still alive and bipedal, that is.)
Hmm. I wonder if that line is a reference to someone from the upcoming
Khaavren books.
Andrew Plotkin
>> ***spoilers for _Orca_, _Issola_, and possibly the other books***
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (Did anyone else have trouble with "As they sit those who are
>> considered worthy are brought to them" at the bottom of page 38? It
>> reminds me of "The horse raced past the barn fell": I read "sit" as a
>> transitive verb, with "those" as its object.)
> They "sit" in the sense that judges do; special usage. They are,
> after all judges.
I don't think I've heard the word "sit" used transitively when it was
about judges. A judge sits, but she doesn't sit the defendant.
The only way I've heard "sit" used transitively is about horse-riding.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* International election observers in '04...
Thomas Yan
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote:
>> ty...@yodel.cs.cornell.edu (Thomas Yan) writes:
>
>>> ***spoilers for _Orca_, _Issola_, and possibly the other books***
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (Did anyone else have trouble with "As they sit those who are
>>> considered worthy are brought to them" at the bottom of page 38? It
>>> reminds me of "The horse raced past the barn fell": I read "sit" as a
>>> transitive verb, with "those" as its object.)
>
>> They "sit" in the sense that judges do; special usage. They are,
>> after all judges.
>
>I don't think I've heard the word "sit" used transitively when it was
>about judges. A judge sits, but she doesn't sit the defendant.
>
>The only way I've heard "sit" used transitively is about horse-riding.
The "sit" versus "seat" distinction didn't immediately occur to me
while reading. After I got confused, backed up, and re-read the
sentence, I did realize that "seat" would work better if the verb were
supposed to be transitive, but as written, the verb looked to me like
it wanted to be transitive. A comma after "sit" would have made me a
much happier camper.
Steven Brust
David Silberstein wrote:
> Anyone here know Hungarian? I'm curious what Morrolan's Fenarian name
> means (and therefore what "Morrolan" means)...
"Morrolan" means Dark Star, but it is not a Hung...uh, I mean a Fenarian
name.
--
Steven K. Zoltán Brust "It's not enough to be Hungarian;
sk...@dreamcafe.com you must have talent too." Alexander Korda
Steven Brust
Thomas Yan wrote:
> (Did anyone else have trouble with "As they sit those who are
> considered worthy are brought to them" at the bottom of page 38? It
> reminds me of "The horse raced past the barn fell": I read "sit" as a
> transitive verb, with "those" as its object.)
Now that you mention it, that *is* kind of ugly, isn't it? A comma
would have fixed it. Oh, well.
Lois Tilton
> I don't think I've heard the word "sit" used transitively when it was
> about judges. A judge sits, but she doesn't sit the defendant.
> The only way I've heard "sit" used transitively is about horse-riding.
Students can sit an examination
--
LT
www.darkspawn.com
Read the first chapter of
DARKSPAWN: the vampire fantasy
David Silberstein
BIG HONKIN' SPOILERS LURK BELOW
>
>I am not sure whether _any_ powerful Morganti blade would have done the trick,
>or if, by coincidence or necessity (it was the only one powerful enough to
>affect Verra's ability to manifest on Dragaerra), it was one of the original
>components of Godslayer. (We seem to have three components to a Great Weapon:
>a magical device that gives it its special power, a Morganti blade, and a
>soul. But can any Morganti blade suffice, or only certain ones? And would
>that explain why there are so many Morganti blades, because the rest are
>failures from the efforts to make Great Weapon?)
Some paranoid speculation...
paranoia=+1
1) The Jenoine gave Vlad that powerful Morganti blade, AND made sure
that he always had Spellbreaker with him, specifically because
they did in fact want Godslayer to be re-assembled. They may
have not expected it to be quite so soon as when he did it -
for long-lived creatures such as themselves, they may have
been quite prepared to wait a few decades or so for him to
put together blade+chain+soul.
paranoia=+2
2) Perhaps the Jenoine that Teldra stabbed returned the attack
precisely *because* it wanted to get her soul into it, and
prompt Vlad into trying to do something about it, which it
knew would assemble Godslayer (after all, it probably knew
that Teldra was not otherwise a threat - she wasn't throwing
spells, and had no other weapons)(and she was, like the rest
of them, "cute").
paranoia=+3
3) Perhaps the entire sequence of events, from the initial abduction
of Morrolan and Aliera, to the battle at the Lesser Sea of Chaos,
was part of the Jenoine's plans to (re-?)create Godslayer. They
were even willing to take the risk of damage or death to achieve
that goal...
I wonder how long it will take Sethra (et. al.) to figure out what
*really* happened...
David T. Bilek
wrote:
>
>
>Thomas Yan wrote:
>
>> (Did anyone else have trouble with "As they sit those who are
>> considered worthy are brought to them" at the bottom of page 38? It
>> reminds me of "The horse raced past the barn fell": I read "sit" as a
>> transitive verb, with "those" as its object.)
>
>Now that you mention it, that *is* kind of ugly, isn't it? A comma
>would have fixed it. Oh, well.
>
I'll pencil one in on my copy, eh?
-David
David Dyer-Bennet
> David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote:
> > ty...@yodel.cs.cornell.edu (Thomas Yan) writes:
>
> >> ***spoilers for _Orca_, _Issola_, and possibly the other books***
>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> (Did anyone else have trouble with "As they sit those who are
> >> considered worthy are brought to them" at the bottom of page 38? It
> >> reminds me of "The horse raced past the barn fell": I read "sit" as a
> >> transitive verb, with "those" as its object.)
>
> > They "sit" in the sense that judges do; special usage. They are,
> > after all judges.
>
> I don't think I've heard the word "sit" used transitively when it was
> about judges. A judge sits, but she doesn't sit the defendant.
>
> The only way I've heard "sit" used transitively is about horse-riding.
Never even occurred to me to read it that way. I suppose that comma
is officially needed?
J.B. Moreno
> David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote:
> > ty...@yodel.cs.cornell.edu (Thomas Yan) writes:
>
-snip-
> >> (Did anyone else have trouble with "As they sit those who are
> >> considered worthy are brought to them" at the bottom of page 38? It
> >> reminds me of "The horse raced past the barn fell": I read "sit" as a
> >> transitive verb, with "those" as its object.)
>
> > They "sit" in the sense that judges do; special usage. They are,
> > after all judges.
>
> I don't think I've heard the word "sit" used transitively when it was
> about judges. A judge sits, but she doesn't sit the defendant.
I don't know tranSITively from a whole in the ground, but...
They don't "sit the defendant" they "sit in judgement". I.e., the above
is a shortened form of "As they sit in judgement, those who are
considered worthy are brought to them" (although that should be *before*
them ot /to/ them).
--
JBM
"Your depression will be added to my own" -- Marvin of Borg
David Silberstein
Justin Fang <jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>In article <slrn9jcm01....@norathar.stat.ncsu.edu>,
>Sean Michael Dilda <smd...@norathar.stat.ncsu.edu> wrote:
>>On 23 Jun 2001 16:56:00 GMT, Michael S. Schiffer <ms...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>>>Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in
>>><9h18ij$of0$1...@news.panix.com>:
>>>
>>>>SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
>>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>Sethra says "There is one other Lavode, but he isn't ready yet."
>>>>Vlad, or Baby Vlad? I'm guessing the latter.
>
>>>Not at all. It's Morrolan, who will turn out to be the reincarnation
>
>>It can't be Morrolan. Morrolan is already listed as one of the people going.
>>If he wasn't ready yet, then he wouldn't be going at all.
>
>By that reasoning, it can't be Vlad, either. If it's someone we've already
>seen (which it doesn't have to be, of course), Mario would fit better than
>Vlad Jr.
>
>Khaavren books.
Erm... weren't the Lavodes all of house Dzur? Maybe Sethra is referring
to a (hypothetical, I haven't read past 500YA - Steve, write faster!)
child of Tazendra?
David Silberstein
Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Vlad's impressions of Pathfinder were genderless apathy, compared to
>Blackwand who was a female psycho.
Not apathy - just more defensive. Protective, in contrast to Blackwand's
aggressive bloodlust.
>I thought of Mario right after sending my post. And now that I think
>of it, no one has claimed to have seen him since Adron's Disaster.
I dunno. If Mario hasn't been seen of or heard of since then, why is
Vlad so intimidated by him?
It hasn't been said anywhere, but I got the impression that Mario's
reputation *kept on* growing as he performed more and more hits.
Konrad Gaertner
> >> >> ***spoilers for _Orca_, _Issola_, and possibly the other books***
>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
Thomas Yan wrote:
>
> >> >[the Necromancer's] conversation with Vlad at the
> >> >end was really different from anything we'd heard from her before. It
> >> >sounded like something Kiera, Sethra, or Cawti would say.
> >>
> >> Hm. I'll have to think about it, and reread the bit in _Dragon_ where
> >> she talks to Vlad as he is dreamwalking (term?).
> >>
> >I'd forgotten about that scene. But she seems awfully aloof the other
> >times we see her. Of course, she might view 'time' as something that
> >happens to other people.
>
> I guess that's true: emotionally detached, and Vlad emphasizes that she has a
> rather different perspective on things, which probably translates into
> a certain distance and aloofness, too.
>
> While it is the case that when Vlad asks "Has anything exciting been
> happening in Adrilankha lately?", she replies that "[she's] afraid
> [she doesn't] keep up on such matters", I agree that she does not
> appear aloof in that final encounter, where she says/suggests/asks:
> Sethra will be the one to tell Morrolan about Teldra, Vlad has less to
> fear from the Jhereg, his grandfather would like to see him, Vlad is
> sounding surprisingly public-spirited due to Teldra's influence, she
> will miss both Vlad and Teldra, and does he want to wait for Sethra
> and Aliera to return before teleporting to Valabar's.
>
isn't neccessarily aloof, but rather Vlad has been staying away from
her prior to this.
--KG
Kate Nepveu
--
Konrad Gaertner
>
> In article <3B37A72D...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Vlad's impressions of Pathfinder were genderless apathy, compared to
> >Blackwand who was a female psycho.
>
> Not apathy - just more defensive. Protective, in contrast to Blackwand's
> aggressive bloodlust.
>
was when Vlad first broke the manacles). Here it is (from pages 173-4):
... Pathfinder didn't seem to be quite as, well, aggressive as
Blackwand. Morrlan's weapon gave me the that it would love to
have the chance to swallow my soul if I'd just come a little
closer; from Aliera's weapon I got the feeling that it would
devour me without a second thought if I gave it the chance, but
it wouldn't go looking for me, either. Also, Blackwand gave
me a strong sense of a female personality, whereas from
Pathfinder I got no clear indication of a sex. Aliera's sword,
it seemed, was more patient, perhaps more protective, and there
was a sense of inquisitiveness; while from Morrolan's blade I
picked up feelings of arrogance, of strength, of the desire to
get to smashing things.
This conflicts slightly with my original theory, so I guess it's just
as well that no one guessed it.
> >I thought of Mario right after sending my post. And now that I think
> >of it, no one has claimed to have seen him since Adron's Disaster.
>
> I dunno. If Mario hasn't been seen of or heard of since then, why is
> Vlad so intimidated by him?
>
He's the only person, in the 200,000+ year history of the Orb, to kill
an Emperor when the cycle hadn't turned yet. Top that.
> It hasn't been said anywhere, but I got the impression that Mario's
> reputation *kept on* growing as he performed more and more hits.
Brust never actually mentions that he's killed since then, though Mario
did get credit for a job done by, I think, Temek.
--KG
Sean Eric Fagan
Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>David Silberstein wrote:
Spoilers...
>> It hasn't been said anywhere, but I got the impression that Mario's
>> reputation *kept on* growing as he performed more and more hits.
>Brust never actually mentions that he's killed since then, though Mario
>did get credit for a job done by, I think, Temek.
The books don't say so, however other people have claimed that Brust put in an
off-stage appearance by Mario in _Jhereg_. (When Vlad comes in to have THE
TALK with Aliera, she is sitting, glowing, in her room; the claim is that
Mario has just left, hence her good cheer.)
However, this hasn't shown up in any of the books, so there remains no proof
of Mario's continued existence.
David Goldfarb
Avram Grumer <av...@grumer.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
>And none of this jibes with "A Dream of Passion," the Vald story Brust
>wrote in 1986 for the Ad Astra convention chapbook.
>http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix/brust/dream.html
I just went and re-read that story. There's plenty of stuff in that
story that doesn't jibe with current continuity. I can think of ways
that the story could come about, but it does seem more likely that
the story should be considered apocryphal.
(This is the problem that all authors face when they try to reveal
the future, sometimes aka the Adult Legion Problem.)
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"Special agents have been employed to slow the
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | film down and grind it to a screeching halt."
aste...@slip.net | -- Mystery Science Theater 3000,
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | "Rocket Attack USA"
David Goldfarb
Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
>So was the dagger originally part of Godslayer? On the one hand, there
>can't be too many Morganti weapons with human-sized hilts that are
>powerful enough to stop Verra from touching the world. On the other
>hand, it was really stupid of them to give it to someone carrying the
>other part.
How so? I would think that they'd *want* Godslayer to come back
into existence. It may well be that having that happen was the
entire thrust of their plan, and possibly getting a sorcerous
beachhead on Dragaera was mere gravy.
The more I think about it, the more that explains. If they *really*
wanted that beachhead, why bring in Vlad and Co. before it was complete,
while it was still vulnerable? But if they wanted to provoke a battle,
a battle in which Godslayer would be very likely to re-emerge --
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"To summarize the summary of the summary:
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | People are a problem."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |
aste...@slip.net | -- Douglas Adams
David Goldfarb
>>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>keel over from old age just when you finally have him properly trained.
It may be worth noting here that we have evidence (from _Brokedown Palace_)
that "Easterners" can use sorcery to extend their lifespans.
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"Do you know what Freud said about dreams of flying?
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | It means you're really dreaming about having sex."
aste...@slip.net | "Indeed. Tell me, then, what does it mean when
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | you dream about having sex?" -- _Sandman_ #15
Robert A. Woodward
wrote:
I am under the impression that Vlad had MET Mario somewhere (possibly
Castle Black) - make note to reread series, sometime, perhaps 2018.
--
robe...@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/robertaw/
rawoo...@aol.com
David Goldfarb
Steven Brust <sk...@dreamcafe.com> wrote:
>
>Thomas Yan wrote:
>
>> (Did anyone else have trouble with "As they sit those who are
>> considered worthy are brought to them" at the bottom of page 38? It
>> reminds me of "The horse raced past the barn fell": I read "sit" as a
>> transitive verb, with "those" as its object.)
>
>Now that you mention it, that *is* kind of ugly, isn't it? A comma
>would have fixed it. Oh, well.
I had no problem with Thomas's sentence, but I sort of blipped on
page 246: "...permitting the wielder to be destroyed was something
a Great Weapon would not permit..."
Also page 231: "'She has blocked their passage out,' said Sethra.
'They have no choice now but to flight.'"
And on page 219: "I said softly, 'Do you know know what she meant by..."
(the two instances of "know" being, as usual, at the end of one line
and then at the beginning of the next.)
I'll gladly email these to Tor if you think that would help.
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"Anything that can be destroyed by the truth
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | should be."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |
aste...@slip.net | -- P. C. Hodgell, _Seeker's Mask_
Richard Harter
(David Goldfarb) wrote:
>In article <3B38B239...@dreamcafe.com>,
>Steven Brust <sk...@dreamcafe.com> wrote:
>>
>>Thomas Yan wrote:
>>
>>> (Did anyone else have trouble with "As they sit those who are
>>> considered worthy are brought to them" at the bottom of page 38? It
>>> reminds me of "The horse raced past the barn fell": I read "sit" as a
>>> transitive verb, with "those" as its object.)
>>
>>Now that you mention it, that *is* kind of ugly, isn't it? A comma
>>would have fixed it. Oh, well.
Reading "sit" as transitive seems rather odd to me - who would say
"they sit those"? Anent "The horse raced past the barn fell":
"As a long-time reader of horror literature, I have a
different take on this: "fell" as an adjective. I've even
seen it, in pseudoarchaic writing, following the noun. So
then we would have the horse racing past a barn that is very
dark and sinister-looking, perhaps filled with instruments
of torture..." -- Fiona Webster
>
>I had no problem with Thomas's sentence, but I sort of blipped on
>page 246: "...permitting the wielder to be destroyed was something
>a Great Weapon would not permit..."
The problem being?
>
>Also page 231: "'She has blocked their passage out,' said Sethra.
>'They have no choice now but to flight.'"
I rather liked this one, given the situation.
>
>And on page 219: "I said softly, 'Do you know know what she meant by..."
>(the two instances of "know" being, as usual, at the end of one line
>and then at the beginning of the next.)
I was undecided as to whether there was simply a surplusage of "know"s
or whether the intended text was "Do you now know ...". One has to
watch out for k's sneaking into your manuscript. The letter 'k' is
jealous of the popularity of the etaion shrdlu gang and has taken to
inserting itself into places where it is unwanted, much like a
Georgette Heyer mushroom.
As for other possible typos, I was startled by the line on p13, "She
gave me a courtesy and I bowed in response." I fancy that "curtsey"
was intended but I had a few pleasant moments speculating on how Lady
Teldra might have given Vlad a courtesy.
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net,
http://www.tiac.net/users/cri, http://www.varinoma.com
It is unfortunate that the dishonest politicians give
the remaining one percent of their profession a bad name.
David Silberstein
>
>As for other possible typos, I was startled by the line on p13, "She
>gave me a courtesy and I bowed in response." I fancy that "curtsey"
>was intended but I had a few pleasant moments speculating on how Lady
>Teldra might have given Vlad a courtesy.
>
courtesy \Courte"sy\ (k[^u]rt"s[y^]), n. [See the preceding word.]
An act of civility, respect, or reverence, made by women, consisting of
a slight depression or dropping of the body, with bending of the knees.
[Written also curtsy.]
courtesy \Courte"sy\, v. i. [imp. & p. p. Courtesied (-s[i^]d); p. pr. &
vb. n. Courtesying.] To make a respectful salutation or movement of
respect; esp. (with reference to women), to bow the body slightly, with
bending of the knes (sic - it's a little unnerving when a *dictionary*
has a misspelling).
Another definition - besides "polite behavior" - is:
"A polite gesture or remark".
David Goldfarb
Richard Harter <c...@tiac.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:06:07 +0000 (UTC), gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU
>(David Goldfarb) wrote:
>>I had no problem with Thomas's sentence, but I sort of blipped on
>>page 246: "...permitting the wielder to be destroyed was something
>>a Great Weapon would not permit..."
>
>The problem being?
The repetition of "permit" strikes me as highly infelicitous.
There'd be any number of ways to recast; perhaps the simplest
would be to replace the first clause with "the wielder's destruction".
>>And on page 219: "I said softly, 'Do you know know what she meant by..."
^^^
218, actually. Figures....
>>(the two instances of "know" being, as usual, at the end of one line
>>and then at the beginning of the next.)
>
>I was undecided as to whether there was simply a surplusage of "know"s
>or whether the intended text was "Do you now know ...".
I thought the surplusage was glaringly obvious. "Now know" makes little
sense in context.
--
David Goldfarb <*>| "All around me darkness gathers
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | Fading is the sun that shone
| We must speak of other matters
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | You can be me when I'm gone."
Andrew Plotkin
> As for other possible typos, I was startled by the line on p13, "She
> gave me a courtesy and I bowed in response." I fancy that "curtsey"
> was intended but I had a few pleasant moments speculating on how Lady
> Teldra might have given Vlad a courtesy.
I'm sure that was deliberate -- "curtsey" *is* just a reduced
pronounciation of "courtesy". The language of the Empire sometimes has
these older forms.
Another one: Vlad talks about getting "the headache", rather than "a
headache". This sounds very weird to my ears. But it was also used,
consistently, in the Khavren books -- it was consistent with their
(Dumas/whatsisname's) archaic speech, and I'm just surprised that it's
present in Vlad's dialect.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Re-elect Al Gore in 2004.
Thomas Yan
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>[...] Vlad talks about getting "the headache", rather than "a
>headache". This sounds very weird to my ears. But it was also used,
>consistently, in the Khavren books -- it was consistent with their
>(Dumas/whatsisname's) archaic speech, and I'm just surprised that it's
>present in Vlad's dialect.
I wondered about that. It sounded like he was referring to a special
kind of headache that he got in specific instances, e.g. to make up an
example, a migraine when incredibly horny. Thus, getting The
Headache, would tell us quite a bit about his mental state.
But I don't remember Vlad talking about headaches before, so I wasn't
sure what to make of it.
(I do like the way in French that body parts are referred to with the
definite article instead of a possessive <mumble>, e.g. instead of
"he/I raised his/my eyebrows", they say "he/I raised the eyebrows".
Is English Brust's native language?)
Konrad Gaertner
>
> In article <3B32910A...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >
> >So was the dagger originally part of Godslayer? On the one hand, there
> >can't be too many Morganti weapons with human-sized hilts that are
> >powerful enough to stop Verra from touching the world. On the other
> >hand, it was really stupid of them to give it to someone carrying the
> >other part.
>
> How so? I would think that they'd *want* Godslayer to come back
> into existence. It may well be that having that happen was the
> entire thrust of their plan, and possibly getting a sorcerous
> beachhead on Dragaera was mere gravy.
>
> The more I think about it, the more that explains. If they *really*
> wanted that beachhead, why bring in Vlad and Co. before it was complete,
> while it was still vulnerable? But if they wanted to provoke a battle,
> a battle in which Godslayer would be very likely to re-emerge --
>
(which brings up the question of their info sources in Dragaera).
Also, the Vlad/Teldra combo isn't likely to achieve their goals (at
least intentionally).
But, just in case you're right, what's their next step? Arrange for
a bunch of Serioli to steal the Great Weapons?
--KG
Konrad Gaertner
>
> In article <9ha6lj$i...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
> Justin Fang <jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
> >>>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Mario is at least an adult, and, not being an Easterner, won't
> >keel over from old age just when you finally have him properly trained.
>
> It may be worth noting here that we have evidence (from _Brokedown Palace_)
> that "Easterners" can use sorcery to extend their lifespans.
>
I've got this suspicion that Sethra's long life is simply due to being
the first to pick up a Great Weapon.
--KG
David M. Jones
> I've got this suspicion that Sethra's long life is simply due to being
> the first to pick up a Great Weapon.
What long life? She's been dead for a quarter of a million years, and
I don't remember anything suggesting that she was particular old when
she died.
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
David M. Jones Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
dmj...@theory.lcs.mit.edu buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
Richard Harter
(David Goldfarb) wrote:
>In article <3b3980f0...@news.SullyButtes.net>,
>Richard Harter <c...@tiac.net> wrote:
>>On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:06:07 +0000 (UTC), gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU
>>(David Goldfarb) wrote:
>>>I had no problem with Thomas's sentence, but I sort of blipped on
>>>page 246: "...permitting the wielder to be destroyed was something
>>>a Great Weapon would not permit..."
>>
>>The problem being?
>
>The repetition of "permit" strikes me as highly infelicitous.
>There'd be any number of ways to recast; perhaps the simplest
>would be to replace the first clause with "the wielder's destruction".
Here we shall have to disagree. I opine that it is felicitous, that
the repetition has poetic force and that your replacement is less than
felicitous. YMMV. In any case it isn't a typo or an error of
construction.
>>>And on page 219: "I said softly, 'Do you know know what she meant by..."
> ^^^
> 218, actually. Figures....
>
>>>(the two instances of "know" being, as usual, at the end of one line
>>>and then at the beginning of the next.)
>>
>>I was undecided as to whether there was simply a surplusage of "know"s
>>or whether the intended text was "Do you now know ...".
>
>I thought the surplusage was glaringly obvious. "Now know" makes little
>sense in context.
Oh, it makes sense but would be inappropriate as a matter of style.
Richard Harter
wrote:
>Richard Harter <c...@tiac.net> wrote:
>
>> As for other possible typos, I was startled by the line on p13, "She
>> gave me a courtesy and I bowed in response." I fancy that "curtsey"
>> was intended but I had a few pleasant moments speculating on how Lady
>> Teldra might have given Vlad a courtesy.
>
>I'm sure that was deliberate -- "curtsey" *is* just a reduced
>pronounciation of "courtesy". The language of the Empire sometimes has
>these older forms.
Ah, I wasn't familiar with the usage. Such forms of courtesy are rare
in my rude life.
>
>Another one: Vlad talks about getting "the headache", rather than "a
>headache". This sounds very weird to my ears. But it was also used,
>consistently, in the Khavren books -- it was consistent with their
>(Dumas/whatsisname's) archaic speech, and I'm just surprised that it's
>present in Vlad's dialect.
I opine that this is more a matter of the author slipping. Vlad's
voice is fairly consistently one of modern colloquial English. Brust
uses other voices for other characters and works. It would not be
surprising if voices seep from time to time.
Similarly "courtesy" rather than "curtsy" (or "curtsey") strikes me as
a change of voice.
There are dialects where they do say "the headache" for "a headache".
Witness, for example, in the movie "Forrest Gump" where his mother
says "I have got the cancer".
Timothy A. McDaniel
David M. Jones <dmj...@jetli.mit.edu> wrote:
>Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
>> I've got this suspicion that Sethra's long life is simply due to being
>> the first to pick up a Great Weapon.
>
>What long life? She's been dead for a quarter of a million years
No, she hasn't been, If I Remember Correctly. I think that _500 Years
After_ says that she had been alive recently (in Draegaeran terms) and
had recently (IDT) died.
--
Tim McDaniel is tm...@jump.net; if that fail,
tm...@us.ibm.com is my work account.
"To join the Clueless Club, send a followup to this message quoting everything
up to and including this sig!" -- Jukka....@hut.fi (Jukka Korpela)
Andrew Plotkin
> In article <w4zy9qd...@jetli.mit.edu>,
> David M. Jones <dmj...@jetli.mit.edu> wrote:
>>Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>>
>>> I've got this suspicion that Sethra's long life is simply due to being
>>> the first to pick up a Great Weapon.
>>
>>What long life? She's been dead for a quarter of a million years
> No, she hasn't been, If I Remember Correctly. I think that _500 Years
> After_ says that she had been alive recently (in Draegaeran terms) and
> had recently (IDT) died.
I'm pretty sure that she emerged undead from -- damn, it was either
the Lavode Scandal or Adron's Disaster. It was definitely recent, in
Sethra's terms.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Bush doesn't count.
Michael S. Schiffer
>Richard Harter <c...@tiac.net> wrote:
>> As for other possible typos, I was startled by the line on p13,
>> "She gave me a courtesy and I bowed in response." I fancy that
>> "curtsey" was intended but I had a few pleasant moments
>> speculating on how Lady Teldra might have given Vlad a courtesy.
>I'm sure that was deliberate -- "curtsey" *is* just a reduced
>pronounciation of "courtesy". The language of the Empire sometimes
>has these older forms.
Though I was just flipping through _Dragon_, and he uses "curtsey"
there.
>Another one: Vlad talks about getting "the headache", rather than "a
>headache". This sounds very weird to my ears. But it was also used,
>consistently, in the Khavren books -- it was consistent with their
>(Dumas/whatsisname's) archaic speech, and I'm just surprised that
>it's present in Vlad's dialect.
I've lost track of when each of the books is supposed to have been
recounted to the mysterious recording device. Given the nature of the
events in _Issola_, none of that could have been recorded until after
the climax of the story. Is it possible that the events _Issola_,
particularly with respect to his relationship with Lady Teldra, have
had an influence on Vlad's vocablulary? If _Dragon_ was recorded
before _Issola_ took place, that might explain the changes in word
choice.
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS If reading in an archive, please do
ms...@mediaone.net not click on words highlighted as links
msch...@condor.depaul.edu by Deja or other archives. They violate
the author's copyright and his wishes.
kesi...@math.ttu.edu
:> I've got this suspicion that Sethra's long life is simply due to being
:> the first to pick up a Great Weapon.
: What long life? She's been dead for a quarter of a million years, and
: I don't remember anything suggesting that she was particular old when
: she died.
No, she hasn't. Paarfi[0] says she was alive in, IIRC, the fifteenth
cycle.
==Jake
[0] Yeah, I know.
kesi...@math.ttu.edu
: SPOILERS (for Issola and previous books)
: Sethra says "There is one other Lavode, but he isn't ready yet." Vlad,
: or Baby Vlad? I'm guessing the latter.
I'd think Krager would be a more likely choice, myself. (Assuming
its someone we've already met, that is).
==Jake
Peter H. Granzeau
>>I had no problem with Thomas's sentence, but I sort of blipped on
>>page 246: "...permitting the wielder to be destroyed was something
>>a Great Weapon would not permit..."
>
>The problem being?
"Permit" used twice in the sentence.
>
>As for other possible typos, I was startled by the line on p13, "She
>gave me a courtesy and I bowed in response." I fancy that "curtsey"
>was intended but I had a few pleasant moments speculating on how Lady
>Teldra might have given Vlad a courtesy.
I rather thought it might be an obsolete use for "curtsey". The
etymology is from "courtesy".
--
Regards, PHG
To reply by mail, send to PGranzeau at the same site)
Kate Nepveu
> >Another one: Vlad talks about getting "the headache", rather than "a
> >headache". This sounds very weird to my ears. But it was also used,
> >consistently, in the Khavren books -- it was consistent with their
> >(Dumas/whatsisname's) archaic speech, and I'm just surprised that
> >it's present in Vlad's dialect.
> I've lost track of when each of the books is supposed to have been
> recounted to the mysterious recording device. Given the nature of the
> events in _Issola_, none of that could have been recorded until after
> the climax of the story. Is it possible that the events _Issola_,
> particularly with respect to his relationship with Lady Teldra, have
> had an influence on Vlad's vocablulary? If _Dragon_ was recorded
> before _Issola_ took place, that might explain the changes in word
> choice.
_Dragon_ was recorded just after the events of _Yendi_, as you'll
recall--several years before _Issola_.
I like your theory--as we've been told, language is a reflex, isn't it?
J.B. Moreno
> Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
> > I've got this suspicion that Sethra's long life is simply due to being
> > the first to pick up a Great Weapon.
>
> What long life? She's been dead for a quarter of a million years, and
> I don't remember anything suggesting that she was particular old when
> she died.
>
> (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Uhm, that wasn't my impression -- I thought she'd died in the last few
thousand years. Although on thinking about it, there is some textev
support for that in _Issola_ when she's talking about the gods...).
--
JBM
"Your depression will be added to my own" -- Marvin of Borg
J.B. Moreno
-snip-
> Another one: Vlad talks about getting "the headache", rather than "a
> headache". This sounds very weird to my ears. But it was also used,
> consistently, in the Khavren books -- it was consistent with their
> (Dumas/whatsisname's) archaic speech, and I'm just surprised that it's
> present in Vlad's dialect.
For Vlad at least, I assumed it was a re-occurring headache....
J.B. Moreno
> s...@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) wrote:
-snip-
> > However, this hasn't shown up in any of the books, so there remains no proof
> > of Mario's continued existence.
> >
>
> I am under the impression that Vlad had MET Mario somewhere (possibly
> Castle Black) - make note to reread series, sometime, perhaps 2018.
I don't think that fits in well with his asking Lady T if she was
secretly Mario (although *spoiler* in _Orca_ it's not inconceivable).
J.B. Moreno
> Timothy A. McDaniel <tm...@jump.net> wrote:
> > David M. Jones <dmj...@jetli.mit.edu> wrote:
-snip Sethra living for a long time-
> >>What long life? She's been dead for a quarter of a million years
>
> > No, she hasn't been, If I Remember Correctly. I think that _500 Years
> > After_ says that she had been alive recently (in Draegaeran terms) and
> > had recently (IDT) died.
>
> I'm pretty sure that she emerged undead from -- damn, it was either
> the Lavode Scandal or Adron's Disaster. It was definitely recent, in
> Sethra's terms.
Which (to me) raises an interesting question: is it possible for her to
become alive again?
David Silberstein
Jon Meltzer <jmel...@pobox.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:19:55 GMT, dav...@kithrup.com (David
>Silberstein) wrote:
>
>
>>Darkstar? That sounds about right. And also familiar, for some reason.
>
>see the dedication of "Brokedown Palace" ...
>
You mean it's a Grateful Dead ref?
(google)
Well, it looks like it could be, at least...
-------------
Dark star crashes,
pouring its light into ashes
Reason tatters, the forces tear loose from the axis
Search light casting, for faults in the clouds of dillusion
Shall we go, you and I while we can
Through the transitive night fall of diamonds
Mirror shatters,
in formless reflections of matter
Glass hand disolving in ice petal flowers revolving
Lady in velvet recedes in the nights of good-bye
Shall we go, you and I while we can
Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds
--------------
Justin Fang
Thomas Yan <ty...@yodel.cs.cornell.edu> wrote:
>In article <9h817e$a10$1...@news.ycc.yale.edu>,
>Kate Nepveu <kh...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote:
>>Thomas Yan (ty...@twinkie.cs.cornell.edu) wrote:
>>
>>Spoilers for _Dragon_ and _Issola_.
>>
>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>He's talking into an alien tape-recorder. Recall _Dragon_ and the
>>shiny metal box with presumed-ears-at-both-ends.
>I take it we don't know anything more about the box, nor what "have
>to" means: if he actually is obligated to do so, or it is simply a
>useful exercise for putting events behind him.
I Seem to remember a line in one of the books about Vlad receiving gold
and "a few useful trinkets" in return for talking to the box, but now I
can't find it. I also seem to remember a line where Vlad comments that
he told one of his stories to someone after being convinced that it
wouldn't come out anywhere it could hurt him.