Dreamer Fithp
Dayne Miller
that's composed of several writers of SF that advise the federal gov't. in
times of unusual crisis. I believe Niven makes reference to a similar group
in one of his short stories (maybe in the LIMITS collection??).
Is there any evidence to suggest that such an organization may exist, either
actively or in a contingency-based set-up?
If so, who is (or should be) on it? I'd guess Niven, Pournelle, David Brin,
Orson Scott Card, Asimov (were he still alive), Carl Sagan (maybe the only
true scientist of the group), Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, and a few others
(mostly "hard SF" writers, in all likelihood).
Anyone know anything they want to share?
-Dayne Miller
day...@u.washington.edu
Thomas Koenig
We can start out by identifying who is who in FOOTFALL. Robert Anson is
(or rather, was) Heinlein. Wade Curtis is Pournelle, and Sherry
Atkinson probably C. J. Cherryh (although she's Canadian, if I remember
correctly). I'm also reasonably sure that Niven has Tuckerized himself
into that novel, but I don't remember who he was.
--
Thomas Koenig, ecm...@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz, ib...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double logarithmic
diagram.
Jon Zeigler
[. . .]
>If so, who is (or should be) on it? I'd guess Niven, Pournelle, David Brin,
>Orson Scott Card, Asimov (were he still alive), Carl Sagan (maybe the only
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>true scientist of the group), Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, and a few others
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-------------------------
>(mostly "hard SF" writers, in all likelihood). I
> I
>Anyone know anything they want to share? I
> I
> -Dayne Miller I
> day...@u.washington.edu I
Hmmmmmm. . .Mayhap Brin (the astrophysicist), Benford (the physicist), and
Asimov (the biochemist) would take a little umbrage at this one. I seem to
recall that Bear is a practicing scientist as well, although I wouldn't stake
my life on it.
Science fiction has come a *long* way since "Doc" Smith earned it a sliver of
respectability by being the only major writer with a doctorate. . .
My nominations. . .Vernor Vinge might be a decent choice -- as a computer
scientist he might have something to contribute by way of information theory.
And then there's Paul Hogan, if the nature of the "Threat" would allow the
government to overlook his "alien" origins. . .:-)
--
* Jon F. Zeigler (jfz...@afterlife.ncsc.mil) *
* "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Emerson *
* The US Government and the Department of Defense are not responsible *
* for my opinions. In fact, I try not to let them know I have any. *
Arthur C. Adams
>
>Science fiction has come a *long* way since "Doc" Smith earned it a sliver of
>respectability by being the only major writer with a doctorate. . .
Just a little trivia question: is it true "Doc" Smith's PhD was for
inventing powdered sugar for donuts?
--
The world is not analog. The world is digital,
with an incredible number of bits.
Arthur C. Adams (not the comic-book artist) <fnord>
E-Mail aca...@afterlife.ncsc.mil
Jim Puckett
<stuff deleted>
>correctly). I'm also reasonably sure that Niven has Tuckerized himself
>into that novel, but I don't remember who he was.
Didn't Wade Curtis have a partner? The one who brought the reporter to
town...Niven not only Tuckerized himself in, he made himself a hero!
jim p.
--
Jim Puckett NTI puc...@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov
Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922
This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you
would have been given instructions....
Christian L Claiborn
>Asimov (the biochemist) would take a little umbrage at this one. I seem to
>recall that Bear is a practicing scientist as well, although I wouldn't stake
>my life on it.
>
>Science fiction has come a *long* way since "Doc" Smith earned it a sliver of
>respectability by being the only major writer with a doctorate. . .
>
>My nominations. . .Vernor Vinge might be a decent choice -- as a computer
>scientist he might have something to contribute by way of information theory.
>And then there's Paul Hogan, if the nature of the "Threat" would allow the
>government to overlook his "alien" origins. . .:-)
You know, I happen to remember reading something in N-Space by Niven about
a group advising NASA on space-travel plans for the future that included
Larry, Asimov, and I think Del Rey? Could this be what he's alluding to?
clc
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Christian Longshore Claiborn | c...@kepler.unh.edu | Friend of the Great |
| Chuck Woolery's Protege | c...@gloin.unh.edu | Eater of Souls |
| Future UNH Sysadmin | c...@bifur.unh.edu | Ask about group rates! |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"It was all very well to say 'Drink Me,' but the wise little Alice wasn't |
| going to do THAT in a hurry." -- The Reverend Charles Dodgson |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George Lane
>Niven and Pournelle, in FOOTFALL, mention a Threat Team (the "Dreamer Fithp")
>that's composed of several writers of SF that advise the federal gov't. in
>times of unusual crisis. I believe Niven makes reference to a similar group
>in one of his short stories (maybe in the LIMITS collection??).
>Is there any evidence to suggest that such an organization may exist, either
>actively or in a contingency-based set-up?
Maybe they are referring to the JASON conference. Every year about
40 of the top scientists in the country come to San Diego for a conference
that deals with US security issues. Maybe they replaced the scientists
with si-fi writers.
George Lane
Opinions are mine only, who else would want them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Dittman
> day...@byron.u.washington.edu (Dayne Miller) writes:
>>Niven and Pournelle, in FOOTFALL, mention a Threat Team (the "Dreamer Fithp")
>>that's composed of several writers of SF that advise the federal gov't. in
>>times of unusual crisis. I believe Niven makes reference to a similar group
>>in one of his short stories (maybe in the LIMITS collection??).
>>Anyone know anything they want to share?
>
> We can start out by identifying who is who in FOOTFALL. Robert Anson is
This one was obvious, but what I noticed was the character disappeared
without explanation (or I missed the explanation). Did I miss the
reason? If so, what was it?
--
Eric Dittman Texas Instruments - Component Test Facility
dit...@skitzo.dseg.ti.com (214) 578-3575
Disclaimer: Not even my opinions. I found them by the side of the road.
Dave Schaumann
>Niven and Pournelle, in FOOTFALL, mention a Threat Team (the "Dreamer Fithp")
>that's composed of several writers of SF that advise the federal gov't. in
>times of unusual crisis. I believe Niven makes reference to a similar group
>in one of his short stories (maybe in the LIMITS collection??).
>
>Is there any evidence to suggest that such an organization may exist, either
>actively or in a contingency-based set-up?
IMHO, this was one of the lamest parts of FOOTFALL, because it's basically
self-indulgant aggrandizement to suppose that the only ones that can deal
with the alien-invaders scenario are SF writers. I guess `SF saves the world'
is a popular idea with these folks, since they saw fit to flesh it out into
a novel-length story (_Fallen Angels_).
>Anyone know anything they want to share?
Apart from their dubious (at best) qualities to think fast in an unusual
situation, SF authors aren't exactly known for keeping new ideas secret,
which would probably be a strong requisite for any such group. There could
very well "Dreamer Fithps" out there, but I can't imagine that they have or
would want authors on them, SF or otherwise.
--
You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another
dimension: a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind.
You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas.
You've just crossed over into... the Twilight Zone.
Mike Van Pelt
>that's composed of several writers of SF that advise the federal gov't. in
>times of unusual crisis. I believe Niven makes reference to a similar group
>in one of his short stories (maybe in the LIMITS collection??).
>
>Is there any evidence to suggest that such an organization may exist, either
>actively or in a contingency-based set-up?
My first reaction on seeing the title was "*sigh* not again...", but
rather than rehashing the "Who were they, *really*?" question, you have
an interesting new slant on the topic.
>If so, who is (or should be) on it? I'd guess Niven, Pournelle, David Brin,
>Orson Scott Card, Asimov (were he still alive), Carl Sagan (maybe the only
>true scientist of the group), Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, and a few others
>(mostly "hard SF" writers, in all likelihood).
It'd have to tend to "hard SF" writers, as the purpose of the group is to
brainstorm approaches to dealing with real threats.
Just as a first cut at it, I'd add Poul Anderson, Octavia Butler, John
Stith, John Cramer, C. J. Cherryh, Fred Saberhagen, Gordon Dickson,
The Brothers Haldeman, Stanley Schmidt, Robert Forward, and James
Hogan, at least for the initial pool of prospects. (Cherryh, Forward,
and Haldeman were probably some of the other characters in N&P's
"Dreamer Fithp", at least as parts of composite characters.)
I'm sure I'm missing many obvious candidates.
--
Mike Van Pelt Here lies a Technophobe,
LSI Logic/Headland Products No whimper, no blast.
sun!indetech!hsv3!mvp His life's goal accomplished,
m...@hsv3.lsil.com Zero risk at last.
Keith Arnaud
ago a note in the Economist that the DoD had run a meeting to try and predict
weapon design and that a number of SF authors had attended. The article used
Footfall as a hook but did not name any names.
Keith
Andrew Hamilton-Wright
>
>>Niven and Pournelle, in FOOTFALL, mention a Threat Team (the "Dreamer Fithp")
(Stuff Deleted)
Sorry - joining the discussion somewhat late - has anyone yet mentioned
Dean Ing (see "Firefight 2000" - cheesy name, but he speaks of being in
a military "Think Tank" to dream up ideas for new weaponry/defense)
- also part of the Niven/Pol/Zelazny.... crowd
--
/|| // // ,'/""\' Andrew Hamilton-Wright and...@mks.com (519)884-2251
/ ||/// //\' `\\\ Database(Admin), Mortice Kern Systems Inc.
/ |/ /_// \\___/ 56 Scottsdale, Guelph,Ont.
o/ "Everything is possible except skiing through a revolving door"
a...@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
> Niven and Pournelle, in FOOTFALL, mention a Threat Team (the "Dreamer Fithp")
> that's composed of several writers of SF that advise the federal gov't. in
> times of unusual crisis. I believe Niven makes reference to a similar group
> in one of his short stories (maybe in the LIMITS collection??).
>
> Is there any evidence to suggest that such an organization may exist, either
> actively or in a contingency-based set-up?
>
> If so, who is (or should be) on it? I'd guess Niven, Pournelle, David Brin,
> Orson Scott Card, Asimov (were he still alive), Carl Sagan (maybe the only
> true scientist of the group), Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, and a few others
!!!???!!!
I know Brin personally, and he was (is?) a PhD physicist with degrees from
Caltech and UCSD. I think Benford is also a working physicist. Sagan,
like Asimov, is a successful popularizer but hardly a great scientist
(in my opinion, not his :-).
> (mostly "hard SF" writers, in all likelihood).
>
> Anyone know anything they want to share?
>
> -Dayne Miller
> day...@u.washington.edu
Andrew Cockburn
Stanley Friesen
|
|You know, I happen to remember reading something in N-Space by Niven about
|a group advising NASA on space-travel plans for the future that included
|Larry, Asimov, and I think Del Rey? Could this be what he's alluding to?
Yes, I believe so. Pournell and Niven have made reference to this little
advisory group several times in speeches to fan groups.
As near as I can make out, since it meets here in L.A., it must be composed
almost entirely of southern California authors.
They were, according to Pournell anyway, a major factor in starting a
certain low key space project the government is funding (*not* through
NASA either). [And last I heard it was still active].
--
sar...@teradata.com (formerly tdatirv!sarima)
or
Stanley...@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Mark Gonzales
>[...] Pournell and Niven have made reference to this little
>advisory group several times in speeches to fan groups.
>They were, according to Pournell anyway, a major factor in starting a
>certain low key space project the government is funding (*not* through
>NASA either). [And last I heard it was still active].
I seem to remember that Niven claimed that Star Wars was his idea (in
N-space). That was the point when I lost all respect for him and his
sidekick. He should have realized that even if you suceeded in blowing
up incoming missiles, the debris, including pounds of plutonium, doesn't
just disappear. I'm sure that having millions of lethal doses of
plutonium sprayed into the atmosphere is almost as bad an outcome as a
bunch of nuclear explosions.
Anyway, writers of Niven-style wish fulfilment science fiction are about
the last group that the gov't should be listening to for input on
multi-billion dollar projects - what's wrong with listening to
professional engineers for a change?
Steinn Sigurdsson
In article <10...@tdat.teradata.COM> s...@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:
>[...] Pournell and Niven have made reference to this little
>advisory group several times in speeches to fan groups.
>[...]
>They were, according to Pournell anyway, a major factor in starting a
>certain low key space project the government is funding (*not* through
>NASA either). [And last I heard it was still active].
I seem to remember that Niven claimed that Star Wars was his idea (in
N-space).
Ah, that would be eminently unlikely. "Star Wars" was certainly pushed
hard by Pournelle, and the current cycle was pushed by Gen
Abrahamson's group (High Frontier's (II)) on Reagan with the help
of Teller et al - but the basic concepts date back to the late
50's or early 60's... and Niven knows that - I'd be eminently
surprised if he could claim any credit for the current generation
of proposals (of course if you mean the movie, I'd recommend suing
Lucas, now... ;-)
time to dig out my copy of N-Space...
| Steinn Sigurdsson |I saw two shooting stars last night |
| Lick Observatory |I wished on them but they were only satellites |
| ste...@lick.ucsc.edu |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware? |
| "standard disclaimer" |I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983 |
charles stross
>Niven and Pournelle, in FOOTFALL, mention a Threat Team (the "Dreamer Fithp")
>that's composed of several writers of SF that advise the federal gov't. in
>times of unusual crisis. I believe Niven makes reference to a similar group
>in one of his short stories (maybe in the LIMITS collection??).
>
>Is there any evidence to suggest that such an organization may exist, either
>actively or in a contingency-based set-up?
>
>If so, who is (or should be) on it? I'd guess Niven, Pournelle, David Brin,
>Orson Scott Card, Asimov (were he still alive), Carl Sagan (maybe the only
>true scientist of the group), Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, and a few others
>(mostly "hard SF" writers, in all likelihood).
Well, I think Professor Benford might take exception to Carl
Sagan being described as "the only true scientist of the group".
But he'd be lining up behind Doctor David Brin to black your eye.
(Nuclear physicists score lower than astrophysicists :) Then
there's the fact that Pournelle and Asimov have/had doctorates
but didn't use them much, and with the exception of Card (who I
don't know about) the others you name all had at least one
science degree to Master's level.
>Anyone know anything they want to share?
Personally, I don't believe a word of it. SF writers are
socially marginal creatures who tend to be bad at working in
teams. Worse, some of them have Odd Politics or Weird Religions.
While something like it _might_ be assembled in the event of an
influx of BEM's, most governments have their own think-tanks of
scientists who spend all their time trying to figure out just
what the implications would be if the Emperor Penguins of the
Ross Ice Shelf were to develop an anti-proton catalysed fission
weapon and threaten to take out the Kurile Islands, and similar
whacky contingency plans. Take the RAND Corporation for
example. (These are the people who invented MAD, the Californium
bullet, and most of the similar insane gizmotrons of the Cold War
Era.) SF writers are in the business of selling books, not
planning how to defend the world against an invasion from Proxima
Centauri. That's the government's job ...
--
this signature rescued by the .sigfile liberation front
Ron
>>They were, according to Pournell anyway, a major factor in starting a
>>certain low key space project the government is funding (*not* through
>>NASA either). [And last I heard it was still active].
>I seem to remember that Niven claimed that Star Wars was his idea (in
>N-space). That was the point when I lost all respect for him and his
>sidekick. He should have realized that even if you suceeded in blowing
>up incoming missiles, the debris, including pounds of plutonium, doesn't
>just disappear. I'm sure that having millions of lethal doses of
>plutonium sprayed into the atmosphere is almost as bad an outcome as a
>bunch of nuclear explosions.
If I understand something about Star Wars works you're not vaporizing or
destroying the missile most of the time. You're probably screwing up its
ballistics though (a laser hole in the surface of a missile, if you could
get it to hit in the first place, would cause the missile to careen off
its target flight path). Even high KE rail guns are probably not going
to shatter a missile.
And since the warheads are not armed (at least in American missiles according
to what I've heard) until the target area is reached, you're going to have
a lot of missiles hitting Earth with only KE. While you could argue for
some distribution, I don't think it would be anywhere near as horrific
as a nuclear explosion.
- Ron
(7/9ths of earth is water too ...)
Gareth William Omeara
Imagine what weird and wonderful plots would have come
from such a group if Philip K. Dick had been in one while he was
alive.Sure,they probably would have never come true , but who cares?
they would have fun to read about.Imagine the headlines on the
papers: "Government prepares for invasion by communist FBI from
Pluto with telepathic powers".
Ah well,it's a nice thought.
Gareth.
u916...@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au
Dragon Lord
>>[...] Pournell and Niven have made reference to this little
>>advisory group several times in speeches to fan groups.
>>[...]
>>They were, according to Pournell anyway, a major factor in starting a
>>certain low key space project the government is funding (*not* through
>>NASA either). [And last I heard it was still active].
>
>Anyway, writers of Niven-style wish fulfilment science fiction are about
>the last group that the gov't should be listening to for input on
>multi-billion dollar projects - what's wrong with listening to
>professional engineers for a change?
What's wrong? hmm, how 'bout interference from congress? A problem
some places are having is the LACK of imagination or the hyper-conservative
natures of some engineers. I don't mean politically either! I see
engineers every day who want to go back to their slip sticks because
they can't seem to understand computer aided anything! There has GOT to
be a happy median someplace around here!!
Paul Vader
>Niven and Pournelle, in FOOTFALL, mention a Threat Team (the "Dreamer
>Fithp") that's composed of several writers of SF that advise the federal
>gov't. in times of unusual crisis. I believe Niven makes reference to a
>similar group in one of his short stories (maybe in the LIMITS
>collection??).
>
>Is there any evidence to suggest that such an organization may exist, either
>actively or in a contingency-based set-up?
In Pournelle's column in the premiere issue of "Science Fiction Age" he
mentions the Citizen's Council on Space Policy, which has apparently met
since since 1981 at Larry Niven's house. Besides "a whole bunch of generals,
politicians, and scientists," it also consists of Larry Niven (obviously),
Robert Heinlein, Greg Bear, Poul Anderson, Harry Stine, Jim Baen and Jerry
Pournelle. He also mentions in passing that a spaceship conceived by this
council will fly this year (does anybody know anything about that last bit?).
I'm going to have to dig Footfall out of storage to see if any of these
people are parodied in the dreamer scenes.
On a more serious vein, I'm not sure I like this idea. SF writers as a
subspecies are probably overfond of using technology as a cure for
everything. Witness Pournelle's pitiful cheerleading of Star Wars (the
warmongering, not the movie) in recent years. At least some of the writers
on this list have respectful standing as scientists and might be within
reach of a clue. And why should book editors be put in charge of *anything*?
PV
Preliminary review: The columns in SF Age are quite good, but the two
stories I've read so far would fit better in a fanzine. Someone should hire
a proofreader. The layout and artwork is well done. If somebody flips over
the style/substance ratio, this could be a great 'zine.
--
Paul Vader Systems Analyst, semi-lurker, Rollerblader,
p...@gagme.chi.il.us ex-Zen poet, and bleeding-heart liberal
Jim Kasprzak
|> In article <1992Sep7.2...@u.washington.edu>, daynem@byron (Dayne Miller) writes:
|> >Niven and Pournelle, in FOOTFALL, mention a Threat Team (the "Dreamer Fithp")
|> >that's composed of several writers of SF that advise the federal gov't. in
|> >times of unusual crisis. I believe Niven makes reference to a similar group
|> >in one of his short stories (maybe in the LIMITS collection??).
|> >
|> >Is there any evidence to suggest that such an organization may exist, either
|> >actively or in a contingency-based set-up?
|>
|> IMHO, this was one of the lamest parts of FOOTFALL, because it's basically
|> self-indulgant aggrandizement to suppose that the only ones that can deal
|> with the alien-invaders scenario are SF writers.
part of _Footfall_ that made me do a double-take and say "Whaaat!?"
Think about it. When there's an unsolved murder in New York City, does the
NYPD call a conference of mystery writers? Did the CIA consult the spy
novelists for advice on how to help cold-war defectors to escape? Did George
Bush call Tom Clancy for advice on the Panama and Kuwait campaigns?
Writers may have to learn a good deal about their subjects in order to write
believable stories, but in the long run, that's what they do: write stories.
I wouldn't want to trust someone with the security of the United States of
America, or of the human race in general, just because they could write a
good story. Many science fiction writers are reputable scientists, and a few
have experience in national government and security matters as well. But I
don't think any of the authors named in _Footfall_ or the posts made here
would be the right people to consult about defending the country or the planet
from an extraterrestrial threat.
------------------------------------------------------------------
__ Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
___/ | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Pro-Environment. Pro-Education. Pro-Family. Pro-Choice.
\_| Pro-Change. Pro-America. Pro-Clinton.
==== e-mail: kas...@rpi.edu or kasp...@mts.rpi.edu
Sea Wasp
>In article <1992Sep9.0...@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, da...@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) writes:
>|> In article <1992Sep7.2...@u.washington.edu>, daynem@byron (Dayne Miller) writes:
>|> >Niven and Pournelle, in FOOTFALL, mention a Threat Team (the "Dreamer Fithp")
>|> >that's composed of several writers of SF that advise the federal gov't. in
>|> >times of unusual crisis.
Not "in times of unusual crisis"; the Dreamer Fithp was created
specifically to advise and think on the problems presented by a specific
problem -- i.e., alien assault. It wasn't some kind of general advisement
group, but one designed for that specific ocurrence.
>|> IMHO, this was one of the lamest parts of FOOTFALL, because it's basically
>|> self-indulgant aggrandizement to suppose that the only ones that can deal
>|> with the alien-invaders scenario are SF writers.
> I agree with this. I'm a long-time fan of Niven's, but this was the one
>part of _Footfall_ that made me do a double-take and say "Whaaat!?"
Come on, people. First of all, it was meant as an in joke, and it
was a pretty good one, too. Heinlein did it himself in the finale of
his "Expanded Universe" collection; the old advisor to the president
who talked about dealing with nuclear waste was supposed to be Bob H
himself. It's a perfectly acceptable procedure, and indicates that the
authors have a sense of humor.
Second, the Dreamer Fithp was in no way represented as a be-all
and end-all of our Earthly defense. They were gathered together
as a group intended to examine the problems from a DIFFERENT ANGLE
than the ordinary threat teams would. In the case of extraterrestrial
invasion, I have to say that it might not be a bad idea at all to
have such a group in an advisory capacity. A standard military
threat team might simply be UNABLE to see certain indications or
solutions that imaginative writers might perceive.
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Steinn Sigurdsson
In article <1992Sep9.0...@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, da...@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep7.2...@u.washington.edu>, daynem@byron (Dayne Miller) writes:
|> >Niven and Pournelle, in FOOTFALL, mention a Threat Team (the "Dreamer Fithp")
|> >that's composed of several writers of SF that advise the federal gov't. in
|> >times of unusual crisis. I believe Niven makes reference to a similar group
|> >in one of his short stories (maybe in the LIMITS collection??).
|> >Is there any evidence to suggest that such an organization may exist, either
|> >actively or in a contingency-based set-up?
Think about it. When there's an unsolved murder in New York City, does the
NYPD call a conference of mystery writers? Did the CIA consult the spy
novelists for advice on how to help cold-war defectors to escape? Did George
Bush call Tom Clancy for advice on the Panama and Kuwait campaigns?
Actually, I believe at least one NATO SOP was changed following Red
Storm Rising. After the book came out the composition and response
time of the "Iceland reinforcement" was changed and rapid deployment
exercises were carried out...
anyway, you mean you don't believe in "Murder, She Wrote" ;-)
Mike Van Pelt
>In Pournelle's column in the premiere issue of "Science Fiction Age" he
>He also mentions in passing that a spaceship conceived by this
>council will fly this year (does anybody know anything about that last bit?).
It's called DC-X. It's a suborbital proof-of-concept scale model of a
single-stage-to-orbit craft. Vertical takeoff, vertical balance-down-
on-the-rockets landing. It owes a lot to Gary Hudson's
Phoenix, of "Fallen Angels" fame.
DC-X is being funded by SDIO. Dirt cheap as such things go, only about
10 million or so, and it's on-time and under-budget, since it isn't
enjoying the tender micromangement of Congress. DC-Y, the full-up
orbiter prototype, they expect to cost about a billion to develop, and
DC-1, the production model, is supposed to go for low-tens-of-millions
each.
>Witness Pournelle's pitiful cheerleading of Star Wars (the
>warmongering, not the movie) in recent years.
I've never understood what's so war-mongering about a defense that
defends rather than promise anihilation in revenge for being
anihilated, but then, I've never been into the Politically Correct
mindset. Such as it is.
>Paul Vader Systems Analyst, semi-lurker, Rollerblader,
>p...@gagme.chi.il.us ex-Zen poet, and bleeding-heart liberal
So, we meet again. I believe I crossed flamethrowers with you a few
times back on an old People's Message System in Chicago years ago. Ah,
the good old days, when BBSes ran on Apple ][s, and there were so few
of them that you could keep up with the debates on all of 'em... Is
"Lash LaRue" still posting messages somewhere? Did anyone ever find
out his real name?
--
Mike Van Pelt An oxymoron, I think. The reality of Usenet."
LSI Logic/Headland Products -- Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
sun!indetech!hsv3!mvp
m...@hsv3.lsil.com
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey
> In article <1992Sep8.0...@afterlife.ncsc.mil> jfz...@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Jon Zeigler) writes:
>>
>>Science fiction has come a *long* way since "Doc" Smith earned it a sliver of
>>respectability by being the only major writer with a doctorate. . .
>
> Just a little trivia question: is it true "Doc" Smith's PhD was for
> inventing powdered sugar for donuts?
Not to my knowledge. But this is an entertaining garbling of the
facts, and I have been guilty of repeating this story myself...
E.E. Smith had a doctorate in chemistry. He spent most of his career
working in food chemistry for a doughnut-mix company in Jackson,
Michigan. It is but a short leap from there to the powdered-sugar
conjecture. (The way I heard it was "he invented a way to make powdered
sugar stick to doughnuts." Since it doesn't stick very *well*, this
reflects poorly upon Doc's competence.)
I don't know anything about Doc's actual achievements in food
chemistry. Nice research project for some scholar.
O~~* /_) ' / / /_/ ' , , ' ,_ _ \|/
- ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / / / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
/ \ (_) (_) / | \
| | Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
\ / Bitnet: HIG...@FNAL.BITNET
- - Internet: HIG...@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
~ SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey
Chicago author Roland Green (a sometime Pournelle collaborator) was
part of this group. I don't recall others, but it was covered in a
story in *Locus* two or three years ago.
Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey | The restaurant's architect
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory | said every effort had been
Bitnet: HIG...@FNAL.BITNET | made to build McDonald's
Internet: HIG...@FNAL.FNAL.GOV | 15th outlet in Italy
SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS | in harmony with Pompeii.
| --Reuters story in *Chicago
| Sun-Times*, 18 June 92
Stanley Friesen
|
|It's called DC-X. It's a suborbital proof-of-concept scale model of a
|single-stage-to-orbit craft. Vertical takeoff, vertical balance-down-
|on-the-rockets landing. It owes a lot to Gary Hudson's
|Phoenix, of "Fallen Angels" fame.
Hmm, they changed the name *again*! It used to be SSX.
The base design rwas Gary's, but since they wouldn't let him *run* the project
he stormed off in a huff. (At least that is how I interpret the matter,
since he is now *very* negative about the project).
The basic concept in "Fallen Angels" is essentially that the Phoenix is
the DC-Y full function prototype.
|DC-X is being funded by SDIO. Dirt cheap as such things go, only about
|10 million or so, and it's on-time and under-budget, since it isn't
|enjoying the tender micromangement of Congress. DC-Y, the full-up
|orbiter prototype, they expect to cost about a billion to develop, and
|DC-1, the production model, is supposed to go for low-tens-of-millions
|each.
Yeah, this is the great thing about the project. It is such a *small* piece
of the budget, it is less likely to get the budget axe than the Space Plane.
[It can be so cheap in part since it uses mostly off-the-shelf components].
(Between Larry and Jerry attending the L.A. Science Fantasy Society and
the annual LOSCON, I have been in a good postion to watch the early stages
of this project - unfortunately, I am now limited to talking to them at cons).
David Smith
> Come on, people. First of all, it was meant as an in joke, and it
>was a pretty good one, too. Heinlein did it himself in the finale of
>his "Expanded Universe" collection; the old advisor to the president
>who talked about dealing with nuclear waste was supposed to be Bob H
>himself. It's a perfectly acceptable procedure, and indicates that the
>authors have a sense of humor.
I saw the advisor as being Hyman Rickover (the admiral who was largely
responsible for the U.S. nuclear submarine fleet's development) sounding
like a Heinlein character. The retired admiral character, right?
--
David L. Smith
smi...@discos.com or davs...@nic.cerf.net
Henry Troup
|> Think about it. When there's an unsolved murder in New York City, does the
|>NYPD call a conference of mystery writers? Did the CIA consult the spy
|>novelists for advice on how to help cold-war defectors to escape? Did George
|>Bush call Tom Clancy for advice on the Panama and Kuwait campaigns?
No, No, and Yes.
Henry Troup - H...@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
"If your morals make you dreary, depend on it, they are wrong" - R.L.S.
sd...@cas.org
>In article <8b9...@rpi.edu>, kas...@jacob.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak) writes:
>|> Think about it. When there's an unsolved murder in New York City, does the
>|>NYPD call a conference of mystery writers? Did the CIA consult the spy
>|>novelists for advice on how to help cold-war defectors to escape? Did George
>|>Bush call Tom Clancy for advice on the Panama and Kuwait campaigns?
>
>No, No, and Yes.
>
that CIA has a section which analyzes spy fiction for good ideas.