Re: OT: Oh, Bugger by Wozzname
Harlequin
news:7418dcc4.04062...@posting.google.com:
> Actually, although he liked that title, Terry Pratchett eventually
> decided against it, on the grounds that he would be faced with it
> everytime he had to look at his bibliography. Instead, his Noreascon
> 4 Guest of Honor book will be _Once_More,_with_Footnotes_, and it'll
> cost $25 (US), but it's a decent-sized hardback, so it's a fair price.
> The title is reasonable; it does warn that most of the pieces are
> reprints, although it doesn't really indicate that the bulk of them
> are reviews and such-like.
>
> There was a nice article about him in Progress Report 6. It is by
> Colin Smythe, his first (?) publisher, and has some of Terry's own
> illustrations from the original version of _The_Carpet_People_ which
> are cute and well-done -- and a photo of him with a [rubber] duck on
> his head. I think that's going to be the author photo on the book.
Expanding the newsgroup line to include a place where it is not off-
topic....
I have always been reluctant to start reading any series
that just seems to keep going. Is the Discworld stuff a sequence or
is it bunch of books set in the same universe that can be more
or less read independently a la LeGuin's Hanish books?
Is there a book or short sequence of books recommended for
newbies?
--
Anti-spam: replace "usenet" with "harlequin2"
"...To deny that basic concepts of historical method with respect to
evolution is worse than just denying science; it is denying simple
common sense. Down that road lies only solipsism or schizophrenia,
neither of which can be used for examination of the outside world."
- Daniel Harper
John Wilkins
> broo...@world.std.com (Ann Broomhead) wrote in
> news:7418dcc4.04062...@posting.google.com:
>
> > Actually, although he liked that title, Terry Pratchett eventually
> > decided against it, on the grounds that he would be faced with it
> > everytime he had to look at his bibliography. Instead, his Noreascon
> > 4 Guest of Honor book will be _Once_More,_with_Footnotes_, and it'll
> > cost $25 (US), but it's a decent-sized hardback, so it's a fair price.
> > The title is reasonable; it does warn that most of the pieces are
> > reprints, although it doesn't really indicate that the bulk of them
> > are reviews and such-like.
> >
> > There was a nice article about him in Progress Report 6. It is by
> > Colin Smythe, his first (?) publisher, and has some of Terry's own
> > illustrations from the original version of _The_Carpet_People_ which
> > are cute and well-done -- and a photo of him with a [rubber] duck on
> > his head. I think that's going to be the author photo on the book.
>
> Expanding the newsgroup line to include a place where it is not off-
> topic....
>
> I have always been reluctant to start reading any series
> that just seems to keep going. Is the Discworld stuff a sequence or
> is it bunch of books set in the same universe that can be more
> or less read independently a la LeGuin's Hanish books?
>
> Is there a book or short sequence of books recommended for
> newbies?
Don't start with the Discworld series then, get a taste for The Man's
work via _Good Omens_ (thereby also acquiring a taste for coauthor Neil
Gaiman's lovely prose).
Then read _Small Gods_ (knowing you, it will appeal, and it stands more
or less on its own).
Then you have to get to know the characters. There are several "themes":
The wizzard series (that's not a typo) - Colour of Magic, The Light
Fantastic, Eric, Sourcery, Interesting Times, The Last Continent
The Watch series: Guards! Guards!, Men at Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The
Fifth Elephant, Night Watch
The witch series: Equal Rites, Wyrd Sisters, Witches Abroad, Lords and
Ladies, Maskerade, Carpe Jugulum
Death and Susan series: Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather
and sundry orphans: Pyramids, Moving Pictures, The Amazing Maurice, Wee
Free Men, A Hat Full of Sky (the last three are kids books, and the last
two form the beginnings of a series about a very young witch), The
Truth, Thief of Time, Monstrous Regiment
There is a spinoff on the Cohen the Barbarian theme: The Last Hero
In addition, he's done to science related books with a short story (both
Rincewind the Wizzard stories) as the basis for the science: The Science
of Discworld, and The Globe. A new one called Darwin's Watch is due out
next year.
And a slew of others, some not stories but maps, diaries, guides, etc.
Plus the Bromeliad sequence, Truckers, Diggers and Wings
The Johnny Series: Only You can Save Mankind, Johnny and the Dead, and
Johnny and the Bomb
There's a new one due later this year called Going Postal. Don't know
what series that is.
I think you might like the Witch series first, but once you get into
them, it really doesn't matter much.
--
Dr John Wilkins
john...@wilkins.id.au http://wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
- Francis Bacon
Bill Snyder
wrote:
>broo...@world.std.com (Ann Broomhead) wrote in
>news:7418dcc4.04062...@posting.google.com:
>
>> Actually, although he liked that title, Terry Pratchett eventually
>> decided against it, on the grounds that he would be faced with it
>> everytime he had to look at his bibliography. Instead, his Noreascon
>> 4 Guest of Honor book will be _Once_More,_with_Footnotes_, and it'll
>> cost $25 (US), but it's a decent-sized hardback, so it's a fair price.
>> The title is reasonable; it does warn that most of the pieces are
>> reprints, although it doesn't really indicate that the bulk of them
>> are reviews and such-like.
>>
>> There was a nice article about him in Progress Report 6. It is by
>> Colin Smythe, his first (?) publisher, and has some of Terry's own
>> illustrations from the original version of _The_Carpet_People_ which
>> are cute and well-done -- and a photo of him with a [rubber] duck on
>> his head. I think that's going to be the author photo on the book.
>
>Expanding the newsgroup line to include a place where it is not off-
>topic....
>
>I have always been reluctant to start reading any series
>that just seems to keep going. Is the Discworld stuff a sequence or
>is it bunch of books set in the same universe that can be more
>or less read independently a la LeGuin's Hanish books?
Some, like _Pyramids_, _Moving Pictures_,_Soul Music_ (and see below),
are effectively independent stories. Others, like the sequences
featuring the Lancre Witches and the City guard, form a continuing
history.
>Is there a book or short sequence of books recommended for
>newbies?
I started a relative off with _Small Gods_, which is a total one-off;
_Witches Abroad_, the 2nd of the loose "witches" subseries, but not
greatly dependent on the previous ditto; and _Reaper Man_, which is
the 2nd book in which we get a good look at the Death of the
Discworld, but again can stand alone. In both the latter cases I
"skipped ahead" on the grounds that IMAO the ones I did pick were
noticeably stronger books than the earlier ones.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]
Mike Dunford
news:Xns950FDC6A993B9u...@68.1.17.6:
> broo...@world.std.com (Ann Broomhead) wrote in
> news:7418dcc4.04062...@posting.google.com:
>
>> Actually, although he liked that title, Terry Pratchett eventually
>> decided against it, on the grounds that he would be faced with it
>> everytime he had to look at his bibliography. Instead, his Noreascon
>> 4 Guest of Honor book will be _Once_More,_with_Footnotes_, and it'll
>> cost $25 (US), but it's a decent-sized hardback, so it's a fair
>> price.
>> The title is reasonable; it does warn that most of the pieces are
>> reprints, although it doesn't really indicate that the bulk of them
>> are reviews and such-like.
>>
>> There was a nice article about him in Progress Report 6. It is by
>> Colin Smythe, his first (?) publisher, and has some of Terry's own
>> illustrations from the original version of _The_Carpet_People_ which
>> are cute and well-done -- and a photo of him with a [rubber] duck on
>> his head. I think that's going to be the author photo on the book.
>
> Expanding the newsgroup line to include a place where it is not off-
> topic....
>
> I have always been reluctant to start reading any series
> that just seems to keep going. Is the Discworld stuff a sequence or
> is it bunch of books set in the same universe that can be more
> or less read independently a la LeGuin's Hanish books?
>
> Is there a book or short sequence of books recommended for
> newbies?
The Diskworld series contains a number of stand-alone books, as well as
a couple of separate series of books that revolve around the same sets
of characters. (There's one series focused on the Night Watch, one
focused on the Witches, and one focused on Death.) All of them can be
read more or less independently, since they build on preceeding books
without really requiring much knowledge of them.
Personally, I'd recommend starting either with the Night Watch books
(Guards!, Guards! is the first of that bunch) or with one of the Death
books (either Mort or Reaper Man). Small Gods or Pyramids might also be
good choices (both are stand-alones). Which to chose pretty much comes
down to taste.
--Mike Dunford
Michael Siemon
Mike Dunford <mdun...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
....
> Personally, I'd recommend starting either with the Night Watch books
> (Guards!, Guards! is the first of that bunch) or with one of the Death
> books (either Mort or Reaper Man). Small Gods or Pyramids might also be
> good choices (both are stand-alones). Which to chose pretty much comes
> down to taste.
Pratchett's books are all pretty much the same thing done in
variations, so it really doesn't matter. Grab any one; if you
like it, read another. When you get bored, stop. If you liked
any of them, you can probably do another sometime, even if you
got bored for a while. If you find yourself fond of a particular
character, seek out other books containing that character; if
a character annoys you, do the opposite.
John Wilkins
*Any* author's books are pretty much the same thing with variations.
It's called "style".
When I come to the USA next, you and I need to have a Little Chat...
Michael Siemon
john...@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
> Michael Siemon <mlsi...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <CLNBc.58942$wO4....@twister.socal.rr.com>,
> > Mike Dunford <mdun...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > ....
> >
> > > Personally, I'd recommend starting either with the Night Watch books
> > > (Guards!, Guards! is the first of that bunch) or with one of the Death
> > > books (either Mort or Reaper Man). Small Gods or Pyramids might also be
> > > good choices (both are stand-alones). Which to chose pretty much comes
> > > down to taste.
> >
> > Pratchett's books are all pretty much the same thing done in
> > variations, so it really doesn't matter. Grab any one; if you
> > like it, read another. When you get bored, stop. If you liked
> > any of them, you can probably do another sometime, even if you
> > got bored for a while. If you find yourself fond of a particular
> > character, seek out other books containing that character; if
> > a character annoys you, do the opposite.
>
> *Any* author's books are pretty much the same thing with variations.
> It's called "style".
>
> When I come to the USA next, you and I need to have a Little Chat...
Ummm, _Ulysses_ and _Finnegans Wake_ are not very much alike. Nor is
_Macbeth_ particularly similar to _The Tempest_, other than being
structured in acts for dramatic presentation. Pratchett is great fun,
if you like his sort of thing. The books are "locally" wonderfully
inventive, while being globally pretty predictable. As pulp literature,
this is fine. They are certainly far more intelligent and playful
than most of the competition. My remarks above were intended as (a
qualified) recommendation. I personally find it hard to read more than
one or two at a time, as the similarities tend to swamp the individual
virtues. I need a longish break between books.
Some chicken chaat would certainly be a nice thing to have on hand
for our next meeting; I'll see what I can do...
John Wilkins
> In article <1gfsc79.10ethjwugcgvqN%john...@wilkins.id.au>,
> john...@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
>
> > Michael Siemon <mlsi...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <CLNBc.58942$wO4....@twister.socal.rr.com>,
> > > Mike Dunford <mdun...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > ....
> > >
> > > > Personally, I'd recommend starting either with the Night Watch books
> > > > (Guards!, Guards! is the first of that bunch) or with one of the Death
> > > > books (either Mort or Reaper Man). Small Gods or Pyramids might also be
> > > > good choices (both are stand-alones). Which to chose pretty much comes
> > > > down to taste.
> > >
> > > Pratchett's books are all pretty much the same thing done in
> > > variations, so it really doesn't matter. Grab any one; if you
> > > like it, read another. When you get bored, stop. If you liked
> > > any of them, you can probably do another sometime, even if you
> > > got bored for a while. If you find yourself fond of a particular
> > > character, seek out other books containing that character; if
> > > a character annoys you, do the opposite.
> >
> > *Any* author's books are pretty much the same thing with variations.
> > It's called "style".
> >
> > When I come to the USA next, you and I need to have a Little Chat...
>
> Ummm, _Ulysses_ and _Finnegans Wake_ are not very much alike. Nor is
Sure they are... you just need to appreciate the author's mind...
When I retire, I aim to actually read FW. Out loud.
> _Macbeth_ particularly similar to _The Tempest_, other than being
> structured in acts for dramatic presentation. Pratchett is great fun,
There I have a serious disagreement. Shakespeare (or someone by the same
name) shines through those pieces; they could hardly have been written
by different authors. The narrative structure or subject matter is not
what I had in mind.
> if you like his sort of thing. The books are "locally" wonderfully
> inventive, while being globally pretty predictable. As pulp literature,
> this is fine. They are certainly far more intelligent and playful
> than most of the competition. My remarks above were intended as (a
> qualified) recommendation. I personally find it hard to read more than
> one or two at a time, as the similarities tend to swamp the individual
> virtues. I need a longish break between books.
Well, I find something similar with a lot of authors. Some (e.g.,
Grisham) I cannot recall which event happened in which
movie^h^h^h^h^hbook. Generally, though, when Pterry is at his best
(i.e., his most cynical and Wodehousian) he is very distinct and almost
crystalline - you see the structure of the book clearly. At times
though, I will admit he is rather similar book to book.
The ones that stand out for me are the Johnny series. He is such a poor
sod that I identify with him immediately, and my teenage years were a
bit similar (except for the time travelling/trousers, alien races, and
ghosts).
>
> Some chicken chaat would certainly be a nice thing to have on hand
> for our next meeting; I'll see what I can do...
I'll bring a cudgel^h^h^h^h^hspoon.
Michael Siemon
john...@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
> > Ummm, _Ulysses_ and _Finnegans Wake_ are not very much alike. Nor is
>
> Sure they are... you just need to appreciate the author's mind...
>
> When I retire, I aim to actually read FW. Out loud.
Of course -- not reading it out loud is a good recipe for missing
most of the puns[*]. FW is rather like a talk.origins pun cascade that
just keeps getting better and better... pure heaven. Ulysses has
some wonderful wordplay, but of a very different kind. Which is my
point -- Pratchett keeps doing the _same_ things (very well, mind
you, but still the same).
---
[*] well, OK -- you'll miss most of them anyway, but you get a hell
of a lot _more_ of them reading aloud!
> > _Macbeth_ particularly similar to _The Tempest_, other than being
> > structured in acts for dramatic presentation. Pratchett is great fun,
>
> There I have a serious disagreement. Shakespeare (or someone by the same
> name) shines through those pieces; they could hardly have been written
> by different authors. The narrative structure or subject matter is not
> what I had in mind.
Nor I. And it is not the identifiably Shakespheherian elements that I
am pointing to, but the _range_ of stuff being done. Pratchett is like
an eternally recurring early Shakespeare comedy (and not dissimilar in
the kind of play going on). Tragedy, masque, elegy, all are different
from comedy. Pratchett does (again, very well) an ongoing series of
a particular kind of comedy. I find it cloying, except in small doses.
>
> > if you like his sort of thing. The books are "locally" wonderfully
> > inventive, while being globally pretty predictable. As pulp literature,
> > this is fine. They are certainly far more intelligent and playful
> > than most of the competition. My remarks above were intended as (a
> > qualified) recommendation. I personally find it hard to read more than
> > one or two at a time, as the similarities tend to swamp the individual
> > virtues. I need a longish break between books.
>
> Well, I find something similar with a lot of authors. Some (e.g.,
> Grisham) I cannot recall which event happened in which
> movie^h^h^h^h^hbook.
Yes. What I said. Pulp fiction. Which Pratchett does well (and far
more to my taste than Grisham or King or whomever). What bothers
me is elevating Pterry to some kind of God for doing this schtick
well. He's damned good -- but within a very narrow range. I hope
he's become filthy rich from the stuff; that's how much I like him!
Tim McDaniel
John Wilkins <john...@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
>*Any* author's books are pretty much the same thing with variations.
>It's called "style".
Vivid counterexample: Steven Brust.
--
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tm...@panix.com
John Wilkins
> In article <1gfsc79.10ethjwugcgvqN%john...@wilkins.id.au>,
> John Wilkins <john...@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
> >*Any* author's books are pretty much the same thing with variations.
> >It's called "style".
>
> Vivid counterexample: Steven Brust.
Only read _To Reign in Hell_.
Richard Forrest
> broo...@world.std.com (Ann Broomhead) wrote in
> news:7418dcc4.04062...@posting.google.com:
>
> > Actually, although he liked that title, Terry Pratchett eventually
> > decided against it, on the grounds that he would be faced with it
> > everytime he had to look at his bibliography. Instead, his Noreascon
> > 4 Guest of Honor book will be _Once_More,_with_Footnotes_, and it'll
> > cost $25 (US), but it's a decent-sized hardback, so it's a fair price.
> > The title is reasonable; it does warn that most of the pieces are
> > reprints, although it doesn't really indicate that the bulk of them
> > are reviews and such-like.
> >
> > There was a nice article about him in Progress Report 6. It is by
> > Colin Smythe, his first (?) publisher, and has some of Terry's own
> > illustrations from the original version of _The_Carpet_People_ which
> > are cute and well-done -- and a photo of him with a [rubber] duck on
> > his head. I think that's going to be the author photo on the book.
>
> Expanding the newsgroup line to include a place where it is not off-
> topic....
>
> I have always been reluctant to start reading any series
> that just seems to keep going. Is the Discworld stuff a sequence or
> is it bunch of books set in the same universe that can be more
> or less read independently a la LeGuin's Hanish books?
>
> Is there a book or short sequence of books recommended for
> newbies?
I'd been put off Terry Pratchet because
a) I saw it as a cult book and
b) the books are published with garish and cartoony covers (yes, I
admit it, I'm an old fart)
Then I picked up 'Mort', and by the third page was irritating my wife
and kids by laughing out loud. I am now a proud cult member, and even
enjoy the cartoons on the covers. I infected my wife with the same
virus, and we now fight over who gets to read each new book first.
Terry Pratchet is a brilliant writer - intelligent, funny and
insightful.
RF
Robert Carnegie
7.6>, Harlequin <use...@cox.net> writes
>Expanding the newsgroup line to include a place where it is not off-
>topic....
>
>I have always been reluctant to start reading any series
>that just seems to keep going. Is the Discworld stuff a sequence or
>is it bunch of books set in the same universe that can be more
>or less read independently a la LeGuin's Hanish books?
I haven't seen any poster yet nail that point down, so I'll say -
they're mostly independent books in one universe, and I can't think
offhand of one of Pratchett's books that doesn't come to a
satisfactory ending in itself without excessive loose ends,
although some of them have sequels.
Where to start depends on what you like, but _Guards! Guards!_
is good, psychological, political, ... On the other hand, a fairly
good factual account of Big Bang cosmology and evolution is
given in _The Science of Discworld_, although it's a little indulgent
in imagining /intelligent/, civilised life to arise on Earth over and
over again, only to meet with appalling catastrophe. There's a
sequel to /that/, which I haven't read.
Robert Carnegie at home, rja.ca...@excite.com at large
Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>I haven't seen any poster yet nail that point down, so I'll say -
>they're mostly independent books in one universe, and I can't think
>offhand of one of Pratchett's books that doesn't come to a
>satisfactory ending in itself without excessive loose ends,
>although some of them have sequels.
The sole exception being the very first one; _The Colour of Magic_
does end on something of a cliffhanger which is not properly resolved
until the sequel, _The Light Fantastic_. Probably not the best place
to start anyway (though it's certainly an amusing read for people who
are well-versed in fantasy cliches already).
--
Leif Kjønnøy, cunctator maximus. http://www.pvv.org/~leifmk
Phil Roberts
the curtain and staggered drunkenly up to the mic. In a cracked
and slurred voice he muttered:
> I'd been put off Terry Pratchet because
> a) I saw it as a cult book and
> b) the books are published with garish and cartoony covers (yes,
> I admit it, I'm an old fart)
>
> Then I picked up 'Mort', and by the third page was irritating my
> wife and kids by laughing out loud. I am now a proud cult
> member, and even enjoy the cartoons on the covers. I infected my
> wife with the same virus, and we now fight over who gets to read
> each new book first. Terry Pratchet is a brilliant writer -
> intelligent, funny and insightful.
>
Same here. I always saw Pratchett books as being "kids stuff".
Right up until I read one. I only wish I could earn enough money to
buy more....
--
Phil Roberts | Without me its just aweso. | http://www.flatnet.net/
Calling athiesm a religion is like calling a vacuum
"just another type of gas" - Me
GSV Three Minds in a Can
wonderful person Phil Roberts <phi...@HOLYflatnetSHIT.net> said
>ric...@plesiosaur.com (Richard Forrest) emerged reluctantly from
>the curtain and staggered drunkenly up to the mic. In a cracked
>and slurred voice he muttered:
>
>> I'd been put off Terry Pratchet because
>> a) I saw it as a cult book and
>> b) the books are published with garish and cartoony covers (yes,
>> I admit it, I'm an old fart)
>>
>> Then I picked up 'Mort', and by the third page was irritating my
>> wife and kids by laughing out loud. I am now a proud cult
>> member, and even enjoy the cartoons on the covers. I infected my
>> wife with the same virus, and we now fight over who gets to read
>> each new book first. Terry Pratchet is a brilliant writer -
>> intelligent, funny and insightful.
>Same here. I always saw Pratchett books as being "kids stuff".
>Right up until I read one. I only wish I could earn enough money to
>buy more....
Library? If you are within commute distance of one, most of the have, or
can easily acquire PTerry's books.
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.
stePH
>>Ummm, _Ulysses_ and _Finnegans Wake_ are not very much alike. Nor is
>
>
> Sure they are... you just need to appreciate the author's mind...
>
> When I retire, I aim to actually read FW. Out loud.
Though challenging, it's really the *only* way to read the Wake.
stePH
--
"A lion will exert himself to the utmost, even when entering the tiger's
den to throw baby rabbits off a cliff!" -- Moroboshi Ataru
Steve Brooks
<snip>
> Then I picked up 'Mort', and by the third page was irritating my wife
> and kids by laughing out loud. I am now a proud cult member, and even
> enjoy the cartoons on the covers. I infected my wife with the same
> virus, and we now fight over who gets to read each new book first.
> Terry Pratchet is a brilliant writer - intelligent, funny and
> insightful.
For those interested in such things the BBC are broadcasting quite a nice
( so far) radio adaptation of 'Mort'. Four 30 minute episodes.
If you're quick you can hear the first one at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/comedy/mort.shtml
The second will be broadcast at 11.00 pm BST tonight. Soon after it
finishes the 'listen' link will point to the second episode rather than the
first.
--
SB
Kylinn
news:jq7fd0p9bvlnsviqa...@4ax.com:
> I started a relative off with _Small Gods_, which is a total one-off;
> _Witches Abroad_, the 2nd of the loose "witches" subseries, but not
> greatly dependent on the previous ditto;
I hooked an English teacher on Pratchett by starting her on
_Wyrd Sisters_. Heh, heh.
-Ky
Robert Carnegie
>, John Wilkins <john...@wilkins.id.au> writes
>
>Well, I find something similar with a lot of authors. Some (e.g.,
>Grisham) I cannot recall which event happened in which
>(i.e., his most cynical and Wodehousian) he is very distinct and almost
>crystalline - you see the structure of the book clearly. At times
>though, I will admit he is rather similar book to book.
I think that to some extent, he writes about the same sorts of
people facing up to the same sorts of problems. At least, there
are certain types of personality - or certain traits of personality -
that recur, and that tend to dominate the stories they end up in.
There are other personalities and traits that he seems not to like,
and that perhaps he prefers to use only as mechanical
characters, or traits as visible stigmata of suffering without
actually entering into the deep unpleasantness of such suffering.
He also tends to write about the same sorts of outcomes,
I suppose; pretty much each of the Discworld books sees the
characters improving the world, and their place in it, compared to
how things looked at the start or halfway through, and with
entrenched social inequalities, such as chauvinism, at least
somewhat challenged. Except for the first, which is rather
different, episodic, and involves the principal characters visiting
various locations with impressive, memorable, and rarely positive
consequences, which they generally escape from unharmed.
Apart from that exception, I suppose he takes a view that if other
writers want miserable outcomes, and heroes overwhelmed by
villains or other catastrophes, and permanently psychically
damaged people, that is their business; he has his own playworld
and is doing very nicely with it, he is well past the point where he
doesn't have to work at all if he doesn't want to, and he doesn't
have to write anything that he doesn't like. Which is fair enough,
surely, and, compared to Larry Niven or Piers Anthony, the product
of Pratchett's unconstrained whim remains relatively agreeable - if
you want to damn with faint praise. In fact, speaking personally, I
would throw a very great many other citizens out of the proverbial
sinking balloon before even considering whether we could do
without Mr. Pratchett. I might even jump myself first. Perhaps I'd
ask if he had a new manuscript that I could borrow to read on the
way down, presuming they could get it back afterwards when they
dig me out of the ground.
In any case, despite recurring elements, the individual books have
particular themes, as do the sub-series within the Discworld.
And, of course, not everything he does /is/ Discworld:
>The ones that stand out for me are the Johnny series. He is such a poor
>sod that I identify with him immediately, and my teenage years were a
>bit similar (except for the time travelling/trousers, alien races, and
>ghosts).
Robert Carnegie at home, rja.ca...@excite.com at large
--
I am fully aware I may regret this in the morning.
Damien R. Sullivan
>He also tends to write about the same sorts of outcomes,
>I suppose; pretty much each of the Discworld books sees the
>characters improving the world, and their place in it, compared to
>how things looked at the start or halfway through, and with
>entrenched social inequalities, such as chauvinism, at least
>somewhat challenged. Except for the first, which is rather
Another way of putting it is that unlike most fantasy authors, Pratchett
writes about Progress being made. Though I suppose that's mostly true in the
Guards books, with helping from a couple of the standalones. A lot of the
other books are more like Fending Off the Evil, or fixing the problem you
screwed up in the first place.
I guess it's fair to say he has recurrent personality types, or at least
recurrent personality traits, arguably in different combinations. Though the
same could be said of Jane Austen, say. And there are differences: Weatherwax
and the Patrician are both extremely clear, lateral thinkers, yet they might
well come up with different answers to a lot of problems.
Actually, some variety of "clear, lateral thinking" is probably *the*
pervasive trait of his writing, and of his protagonists, going all the way
back to the Carpet People. It's a basic element of his satire, which is also
pervasive: the protagonist, or mentor of the protagonist, or rogue, who sees
or points out the follies in life. The fantastic element, despite the
trappings of wizards and trolls and such, is that the clear, lateral solutions
they come up with actually work, instead of running aground on reality.
(That said, I think he makes fun of the Gordian knot parable somewhere, though
I can't remember where. I know someone did.)
This pervasive trait is probably why he felt so much like Douglas Adams, and
would get described as "the fantasy Douglas Adams, though more consistent" at
least in my circles; a similar satire viewed through different perspectives,
then made 'real'. Though the different perspective goes beyond satire, such
as the supernatural being who walks through walls not because it is less solid
than they are but because it is *more* solid, more real. Or the entire
purpose of floating balloons on strings being to teach small children not to
let go.
>Apart from that exception, I suppose he takes a view that if other
>writers want miserable outcomes, and heroes overwhelmed by
>villains or other catastrophes, and permanently psychically
Note that _Night Watch_ was somewhat darker than other books, though not
really dark dark; he may be stretching his range.
>have to write anything that he doesn't like. Which is fair enough,
>surely, and, compared to Larry Niven or Piers Anthony, the product
>of Pratchett's unconstrained whim remains relatively agreeable - if
And the writing has generally improved; the early books are often weak in
areas, to my mind, while the later ones feel much closer to flawless.
Anyway, to answer the original question, or the question I infer: the books
aren't an ongoing story, like Robert Jordan; you won't be stuck wondering
"what happens next?" They're not even as strongly connected as Brust's Vlad
Taltos books, which stand on their own but are about a single character with a
fair bit of continuity, leaving fans panting for more even though we haven't
been left hanging in the middle of the story. Pratchett fans pant for more
Pratchett because they like reading Pratchett, not because they've been
suckered into some 30-book series the author doesn't know how to end.
So, borrow one and read it; if you like it it's not the end of your budget.
-xx- Damien X-)
John Wilkins
I rarely do this, but,
what he said.
Robert Carnegie
Kj|nn|y <lei...@pvv.ntnu.no> writes
A cliffhanger? Surely the reverse... I read (past tense) the end of
TCOM as conclusive, not especially optimistic of course. There
was an ending, out from which characters were summarily and
spectacularly yanked in order that they participate in the next book.
I'm not sorry to have got them back, but I don't think the existence
of a second book could be predicted with confidence from reading
the first; nor, necessarily, its plot, although obviously it's rooted in
the first book.
As to not being the best place to start... I'm torn. I don't think you
get the most out of it if you come to it after the others; some of the
cool inventive stuff is taken as commonplace in other books
published afterwards, and the style hasn't settled down: it could
feel like an inadequate imitation of the more mature author. But at
the same time, it was a leg up for the career of an already
sparkling talent - _The Carpet People_ is no longer a pre-
Discworld book, having been rewritten, but there's at least
_Strata_, _Dark Side Of The Sun_, and short stories, and did I
miss anything out?
Basically it depends what you like. TCOM is probably closest to
sober fantastic fiction for adult readers, taking several of fantasy's
over-used or uniquely used scenarios - and making fun of them.
You'll get less out of this if you don't enjoy that sort of fantasy.
stePH
> In article <osedTRAV...@redjac.demon.co.uk>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>I haven't seen any poster yet nail that point down, so I'll say -
>>they're mostly independent books in one universe, and I can't think
>>offhand of one of Pratchett's books that doesn't come to a
>>satisfactory ending in itself without excessive loose ends,
>>although some of them have sequels.
>
>
> The sole exception being the very first one; _The Colour of Magic_
> does end on something of a cliffhanger which is not properly resolved
> until the sequel, _The Light Fantastic_.
_The Colour of Magic_ is the only one I've read so far (wanted to begin
at the beginning) and I don't recall the ending being any kind of
cliffhanger.
I haven't read any more (though _The Fifth Elephant_ is on my shelf)
because I want to read _The Light Fantastic_ next.
Ferrous Patella
ric...@plesiosaur.com (Richard Forrest):
> I'd been put off Terry Pratchet because
> a) I saw it as a cult book and
> b) the books are published with garish and cartoony covers (yes, I
> admit it, I'm an old fart)
The covers for the mass market paperback are indeed a burden for TP. My
first read of his stuff was a hard cover from the library and I did not
fell so silly being seen reading it.
>
> Then I picked up 'Mort', and by the third page was irritating my wife
> and kids by laughing out loud. I am now a proud cult member, and even
> enjoy the cartoons on the covers. I infected my wife with the same
> virus, and we now fight over who gets to read each new book first.
I am very jealous of my spouse, who has fallen behind and has two TP works
to look forward to reading.
> Terry Pratchet is a brilliant writer - intelligent, funny and
> insightful.
>
--
Ferrous Patella (Homo gerardii), who is have trouble is prepositions
lately.
"If the universe is so finely tuned, how come I can't sing worth a darn?"
-Cheezits
Lieutenant Kizhe Katson
I started with _CoM_, and it didn't do me any long-term harm -- but
you definitely *don't* want to read _TLF_ first. These are one long
story in two parts. Actually, considering the number of times
Rincewind and The Luggage[1] show up in the other books (even if only
as "walk-ons"), I'd say these two are probably a fairly good place to
start.
I agree with those who can only take Discworld in limited doses.
There's enough similarity among the series that the humour cloys if
you read more than about two of them without at least a month's
interval between.
[1] Last year we purchased a large duffle of the new-fangled kind that
has a zillion compartments, and a frame, and wheels, and zip-away
straps, so you can roll it, or back-pack it, or just pick it up. Of
course, we christened "The Luggage" (always pronounced such that you
can hear the capitalization).
-- Kizhé
Carol Hague
<Terry Pratchett>
> Then I picked up 'Mort', and by the third page was irritating my wife
> and kids by laughing out loud. I am now a proud cult member, and even
> enjoy the cartoons on the covers. I infected my wife with the same
> virus, and we now fight over who gets to read each new book first.
We've solved this one in our house. I read them to my husband. That way
we both get to enjoy the books (though I sometimes have to pause until
I've stopped laughing...) and he says it's better than reading them
himself because I do the voices as well. The Nac Mac Feegle accents in
_The Wee Free Men_ were a bit of a challenge, but fun.
--
Carol
"Nothing is so virtuous as a bicycle."
- Dorothy L. Sayers, _Five Red Herrings_
Craig Richardson
<acet...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y wrote:
>
>> In article <osedTRAV...@redjac.demon.co.uk>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I haven't seen any poster yet nail that point down, so I'll say -
>>>they're mostly independent books in one universe, and I can't think
>>>offhand of one of Pratchett's books that doesn't come to a
>>>satisfactory ending in itself without excessive loose ends,
>>>although some of them have sequels.
>>
>>
>> The sole exception being the very first one; _The Colour of Magic_
>> does end on something of a cliffhanger which is not properly resolved
>> until the sequel, _The Light Fantastic_.
>
>_The Colour of Magic_ is the only one I've read so far (wanted to begin
>at the beginning) and I don't recall the ending being any kind of
>cliffhanger.
>
>I haven't read any more (though _The Fifth Elephant_ is on my shelf)
>because I want to read _The Light Fantastic_ next.
ObSF: Mary Stewart's _The Crystal Cave_ - "I was speaking literally!"
Pterry being Pterry, you think that at least one book of his wouldn't
end with a character actually dangling from a great "height", story to
be continued in next volume?
--Craig
--
Craig Richardson (Homepage <http://crichard-tacoma.home.att.net>)
"when you move into a new energy source you have to assume there's going
to be some environmental impact,"
-- Jeremy Rifkin renounces the Precautionary Principle
stePH
> On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:30:19 +0000 (UTC), stePH
> <acet...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <osedTRAV...@redjac.demon.co.uk>,
>>>Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I haven't seen any poster yet nail that point down, so I'll say -
>>>>they're mostly independent books in one universe, and I can't think
>>>>offhand of one of Pratchett's books that doesn't come to a
>>>>satisfactory ending in itself without excessive loose ends,
>>>>although some of them have sequels.
>>>
>>>
>>>The sole exception being the very first one; _The Colour of Magic_
>>>does end on something of a cliffhanger which is not properly resolved
>>>until the sequel, _The Light Fantastic_.
>>
>>_The Colour of Magic_ is the only one I've read so far (wanted to begin
>>at the beginning) and I don't recall the ending being any kind of
>>cliffhanger.
>>
>>I haven't read any more (though _The Fifth Elephant_ is on my shelf)
>>because I want to read _The Light Fantastic_ next.
>
>
> ObSF: Mary Stewart's _The Crystal Cave_ - "I was speaking literally!"
>
> Pterry being Pterry, you think that at least one book of his wouldn't
> end with a character actually dangling from a great "height", story to
> be continued in next volume?
I suppose your post might make sense to me if I'd read _The Colour of
Magic_ recently enough to have more than vague recollections of it.
John Wilkins
> [1] Last year we purchased a large duffle of the new-fangled kind that
> has a zillion compartments, and a frame, and wheels, and zip-away
> straps, so you can roll it, or back-pack it, or just pick it up. Of
> course, we christened "The Luggage" (always pronounced such that you
> can hear the capitalization).
Does it bite? Unless it bites, it isn't *real* Luggage.
Robert Carnegie
<acet...@earthlink.net> writes
I tried to finish it when I was sleepy, somewhere near the
end I suppose I dropped off :-)
I'm moderately sure by the end of the last page of the book,
no one's dangling...
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Lieutenant Kizhe Katson <lt_k...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > [1] Last year we purchased a large duffle of the new-fangled kind that
> > has a zillion compartments, and a frame, and wheels, and zip-away
> > straps, so you can roll it, or back-pack it, or just pick it up. Of
> > course, we christened "The Luggage" (always pronounced such that you
> > can hear the capitalization).
>
> Does it bite? Unless it bites, it isn't *real* Luggage.
The Luggage almost never bites. It tramples and/or swollows.
--KG
John Wilkins
True. So the question is - does your clothing appear nicely pressed, but
you lose things in it, never to be seen again?
Forrest
>not because they've been
>suckered into some 30-book series the author doesn't know how to end.
Ending it's no problem; if you take the clacks and add some basic
DW/headological principles you can easily derive the -- shall we say
optionally inevitable? -- end/destruction of the Disc.
Rob Ellwood
>
> Lieutenant Kizhe Katson <lt_k...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > Last year we purchased a large duffle of the new-fangled kind that
> > has a zillion compartments, and a frame, and wheels, and zip-away
> > straps, so you can roll it, or back-pack it, or just pick it up. Of
> > course, we christened "The Luggage" (always pronounced such that you
> > can hear the capitalization).
>
> Does it bite? Unless it bites, it isn't *real* Luggage.
The Luggage? I once frivolously suggested how to add The
Luggage to the game Nethack. (Nethack is vaguely like a turn-based
version of Diablo, only without the graphics.)
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3D007E25.A4E7202D%40shaw.ca
(Re-engaging lurk drive.)
--
Rob "If the Luggage walks by *ahem* a large chest or box... it is
smitten. ...Ex-owners will sometimes be eaten." Ellwood
Craig Richardson
<acet...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Oh, all right...
SPOILERS
Rincewind, along with Twoflower and the Luggage, has stolen the
"Potent Voyager", the vessel meant to investigate for once and for all
what is actually over the edge of the Discworld. And, being
Rincewind, he panics and jumps out just as it launches. As a result,
he ends up alive, but sitting in a small thorn tree that grows on the
edge itself. With no alternative, he jumps off. Continued in _The
Light Fantastic_.
A cliffhanger that is a real, literal, cliffhanger.
Lieutenant Kizhe Katson
> Lieutenant Kizhe Katson <lt_k...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > [1] Last year we purchased a large duffle of the new-fangled kind that
> > has a zillion compartments, and a frame, and wheels, and zip-away
> > straps, so you can roll it, or back-pack it, or just pick it up. Of
> > course, we christened "The Luggage" (always pronounced such that you
> > can hear the capitalization).
>
> Does it bite? Unless it bites, it isn't *real* Luggage.
Well, no it doesn't bite. And it also doesn't wash and fold your
clothes every night, or provide picnic lunches on demand. Apparently,
whatever fabric this thing is made of just doesn't have the same
properties as sapient pearwood. Damn synthetics are never as good
<grumble> <whine>.....
-- Kizhe (who was reminded of the Luggage by the "Monsters" text in
the latest HP flick)
John Wilkins
> john...@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
> > Lieutenant Kizhe Katson <lt_k...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > [1] Last year we purchased a large duffle of the new-fangled kind that
> > > has a zillion compartments, and a frame, and wheels, and zip-away
> > > straps, so you can roll it, or back-pack it, or just pick it up. Of
> > > course, we christened "The Luggage" (always pronounced such that you
> > > can hear the capitalization).
> >
> > Does it bite? Unless it bites, it isn't *real* Luggage.
>
> Well, no it doesn't bite. And it also doesn't wash and fold your
> clothes every night, or provide picnic lunches on demand. Apparently,
> whatever fabric this thing is made of just doesn't have the same
> properties as sapient pearwood. Damn synthetics are never as good
> <grumble> <whine>.....
Me either. No matter how I magically dose my gortex it still only sits
and whimpers, although it's really good at cutting down windchill.
>
> -- Kizhe (who was reminded of the Luggage by the "Monsters" text in
> the latest HP flick)
Yes! Me too, although I didn't get it until you said that...
Damien R. Sullivan
?
-xx- Damien X-)
GSV Three Minds in a Can
wonderful person John Wilkins <john...@wilkins.id.au> said
<snip>
>> -- Kizhe (who was reminded of the Luggage by the "Monsters" text in
>> the latest HP flick)
>
>Yes! Me too, although I didn't get it until you said that...
Except the luggage is a =tiny= bit bigger. I guess the 'Monsters'
textbooks could be baby-luggages in the pre-pubescent stage. They
certainly has the right attitude. 8>.
Ann Broomhead
> broo...@world.std.com (Ann Broomhead) wrote in
> news:7418dcc4.04062...@posting.google.com:
>
> > ... Terry Pratchett ...
>
> Expanding the newsgroup line to include a place where it is not off-
> topic....
>
> I have always been reluctant to start reading any series
> that just seems to keep going. Is the Discworld stuff a sequence or
> is it bunch of books set in the same universe that can be more
> or less read independently a la LeGuin's Hanish books?
>
> Is there a book or short sequence of books recommended for
> newbies?
I saw (again) the chart posted in our clubhouse, so I looked for it on the web:
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gidnsuzi/readord.html
I approve of the choices for "starter" books.
Pfusand
That which does not destroy us
has made its last mistake.
-- Unspoken motto of the pantope crew
stePH
> On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:28:18 +0000 (UTC), stePH
> <acet...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>I suppose your post might make sense to me if I'd read _The Colour of
>>Magic_ recently enough to have more than vague recollections of it.
>
>
> Oh, all right...
>
>
> SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rincewind, along with Twoflower and the Luggage, has stolen the
> "Potent Voyager", the vessel meant to investigate for once and for all
> what is actually over the edge of the Discworld. And, being
> Rincewind, he panics and jumps out just as it launches. As a result,
> he ends up alive, but sitting in a small thorn tree that grows on the
> edge itself. With no alternative, he jumps off. Continued in _The
> Light Fantastic_.
>
> A cliffhanger that is a real, literal, cliffhanger.
>
Ah, okay. Seems I've forgotten the entire novel as if I'd never read it.
I just bought _The Light Fantastic_ yesterday, so after a quick re-read
of _The Colour of Magic_ I'll see what happens next :)
R.Schenck
snip
> The wizzard series (that's not a typo) - Colour of Magic, The Light
> Fantastic, Eric, Sourcery, Interesting Times, The Last Continent
I had actually tried it by reading just stories that had rincewind and
twoflower, but then twoflower's vacation was over, and that was sad.
At least the luggage stuck around. But rincewind isn't involved in
all of the above no? Just CoM, LF and one more right? I like that
character. Such a sniveling little bastard. I saw an 'illustrated
discworld fable' at the store the other day, it was intersting to see
that cohen looked quite like I pictured him, and rincewind was
properly haggard and, well, he just looked so damned scared.
>
> The Watch series: Guards! Guards!, Men at Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The
> Fifth Elephant, Night Watch
>
> The witch series: Equal Rites, Wyrd Sisters, Witches Abroad, Lords and
> Ladies, Maskerade, Carpe Jugulum
>
> Death and Susan series: Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather
I think that if i continue with pratchett that this will be the next
cycle i jump into. Its funny how Death can by so archetypical and yet
seem original.
>
> and sundry orphans: Pyramids, Moving Pictures, The Amazing Maurice, Wee
> Free Men, A Hat Full of Sky (the last three are kids books, and the last
> two form the beginnings of a series about a very young witch), The
> Truth, Thief of Time, Monstrous Regiment
>
> There is a spinoff on the Cohen the Barbarian theme: The Last Hero
>
> In addition, he's done to science related books with a short story (both
> Rincewind the Wizzard stories) as the basis for the science: The Science
> of Discworld, and The Globe. A new one called Darwin's Watch is due out
> next year.
Will the demon in a box who is constantly short on paint be featured
in it...?
snip
Damien R. Sullivan
>> The wizzard series (that's not a typo) - Colour of Magic, The Light
>> Fantastic, Eric, Sourcery, Interesting Times, The Last Continent
>
>At least the luggage stuck around. But rincewind isn't involved in
>all of the above no? Just CoM, LF and one more right? I like that
No, that's an accurate list, though it leaves out _The Last Hero_. I guess I
don't know if that'd be considered part of "the wizzard series", but he's in
it.
>character. Such a sniveling little bastard. I saw an 'illustrated
>discworld fable' at the store the other day, it was intersting to see
>that cohen looked quite like I pictured him, and rincewind was
That was probably _The Last Hero_.
-xx- Damien X-)
William George Ferguson
[about discworld book groupings]
>Then you have to get to know the characters. There are several "themes":
>
>The wizzard series (that's not a typo) - Colour of Magic, The Light
>Fantastic, Eric, Sourcery, Interesting Times, The Last Continent
>
>The Watch series: Guards! Guards!, Men at Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The
>Fifth Elephant, Night Watch
>
>The witch series: Equal Rites, Wyrd Sisters, Witches Abroad, Lords and
>Ladies, Maskerade, Carpe Jugulum
>
>Death and Susan series: Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather
>
>and sundry orphans: Pyramids, Moving Pictures, The Amazing Maurice, Wee
>Free Men, A Hat Full of Sky (the last three are kids books, and the last
>two form the beginnings of a series about a very young witch), The
>Truth, Thief of Time, Monstrous Regiment
Thief of Time is very definitely a Death and Susan book. There are four
main story threads, and two of them are Death's and Susan's (with the rat
and the crow of course) and the 'bad guys' are Susan's number one enemy.
>There's a new one due later this year called Going Postal. Don't know
>what series that is.
Since it appears to be about the Clacks, I'm thinking it will likely fit
generally under the Watch category.
--
"Who needs the big picture? Not me. Hints are fine."
Joan Girardi (after God shows her just a little of his omnipresent brain)
Wim Lewis
Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <1gfsc79.10ethjwugcgvqN%john...@wilkins.id.au>,
>John Wilkins <john...@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
>>*Any* author's books are pretty much the same thing with variations.
>>It's called "style".
>
>Vivid counterexample: Steven Brust.
And also, I think: Walter Jon Williams. One thing I enjoy about
his books is how much he varies his style.
(If you're looking for WJW to read, I recommend _against_ _The Rift_,
which was a failed attempt at a Crichton-style Big Disaster Novel;
I haven't read his recent "Praxis" books yet.)
--
Wim Lewis <wi...@hhhh.org>, Seattle, WA, USA. PGP keyID 27F772C1
Kent Coyle
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, GSV Three Minds in a Can wrote:
> Bitstring <Xns95108C7A37...@216.196.97.132>, from the
> wonderful person Phil Roberts <phi...@HOLYflatnetSHIT.net> said
> >ric...@plesiosaur.com (Richard Forrest) emerged reluctantly from
> >the curtain and staggered drunkenly up to the mic. In a cracked
> >and slurred voice he muttered:
> >
> >> I'd been put off Terry Pratchet because
> >> a) I saw it as a cult book and
> >> b) the books are published with garish and cartoony covers (yes,
> >> I admit it, I'm an old fart)
> >>
> >> Then I picked up 'Mort', and by the third page was irritating my
> >> wife and kids by laughing out loud. I am now a proud cult
> >> member, and even enjoy the cartoons on the covers. I infected my
> >> wife with the same virus, and we now fight over who gets to read
> >> each new book first. Terry Pratchet is a brilliant writer -
> >> intelligent, funny and insightful.
> >Same here. I always saw Pratchett books as being "kids stuff".
> >Right up until I read one. I only wish I could earn enough money to
> >buy more....
>
> Library? If you are within commute distance of one, most of the have, or
> can easily acquire PTerry's books.
>
> --
> GSV Three Minds in a Can
> Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.
>
>
I really wish I liked Prachett. Truly. He's much admired here, and
prolific. But I bounce off him very hard.
Robert Carnegie
Sullivan <dasu...@cs.indiana.edu> writes
Well, for instance, _The Science of Discworld_, where the
University wizards estimate the chances of an experiment causing
the entire Disc to explode at the speed of dark so that no one has
time even to notice it's gone before they are, too - or something
like that - and they decide what the heck, let's see what happens.
John Wilkins
De gustibus non est disputandum. Pratchett is like a very extended, very
detailed shaggy dog story. Guess why *I* like him...
Damien R. Sullivan
>In article <cbett6$kd2$1...@hood.uits.indiana.edu>, Damien R.
>Sullivan <dasu...@cs.indiana.edu> writes
>>nygdan_mo...@yahoo.com (R.Schenck) wrote:
>>
>>>> The wizzard series (that's not a typo) - Colour of Magic, The Light
>>>> Fantastic, Eric, Sourcery, Interesting Times, The Last Continent
>>>
>>>all of the above no? Just CoM, LF and one more right? I like that
>>
>>No, that's an accurate list, though it leaves out _The Last Hero_. I guess I
>>don't know if that'd be considered part of "the wizzard series", but he's in
>>it.
>
>_Eric_, _Interesting Times_ (with Twoflower), _The Last
>Continent_, and _The Science of Discworld_. At least.
Grr. That's what I meant. I was disagreeing with Schenk and agreeing with
the long list up top. I don't remember him in Mort, though.
-xx- Damien X-)
Terry Pratchett
<use...@cox.net> writes
>b
>
>I have always been reluctant to start reading any series
>that just seems to keep going. Is the Discworld stuff a sequence or
>is it bunch of books set in the same universe that can be more
>or less read independently a la LeGuin's Hanish books?
>
>Is there a book or short sequence of books recommended for
>newbies?
>
For what it's worth, *I* wouldn't recommend starting with The Colour of
Magic or The Light Fantastic. I generally advise beginning with Mort,
Guards! Guards or Small Gods, all of which are accessible to anyone
familiar with the conventions of fantasy. I don't actually disown the
early books but I know the later stuff is better; it's a little worrying
that people might pick up, say, Night Watch, like it and then dutifully
go and get TCOM. Between the two books there's 20 years of learning to
write:-)
--
Terry Pratchett
Robert Carnegie
Ah, okay. I'm not sure how many of us were confused in this
conversation.
As for Rincewind in _Mort_, there's a thread where the University
wizards do the Rite of AshkEnte, or whatever it's called, which
summons Death in anthropomorphic personification into a magic
circle, should you find this a useful thing to do, and I believe
Rincewind shows up there.
Dave
(Damien R. Sullivan) wrote:
>Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>No, hang on, Rincewind is also in _Mort_ (slightly), _Sourcery_,
>>_Eric_, _Interesting Times_ (with Twoflower), _The Last
>>Continent_, and _The Science of Discworld_. At least.
>
>Grr. That's what I meant. I was disagreeing with Schenk and agreeing with
>the long list up top. I don't remember him in Mort, though.
A very brief scene, toward the beginning IIRC.
Dave Roy
John Wilkins
That was Eric, and Eric was the one who did the Rite (not of Ashkente,
though). Rincewind had been trapped in the Dungeon Dimensions by the
Sourceror episode, and since Eric was the wizrd equivalent of a spotty
nerd, he got it wrong. Throughout the book he thinks Rincewind is a
demon... and so does the Discworld, since he was summoned through an
incantation, so Rincewind keeps doing magic despite his prior inability.
Forrest
> >if you take the clacks and add some basic
> >DW/headological principles you can easily derive the -- shall we say
> >optionally inevitable? -- end/destruction of the Disc.
>
> ?
(Pause to turn up the crypticism)
Read the first page of the second book and think about how the clacks
fundamentally works. Add greed and not-clever-enoughness. A bit more
subtle than carelessness at UU...
Dave Roy
(John Wilkins) wrote:
>Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> As for Rincewind in _Mort_, there's a thread where the University
>> wizards do the Rite of AshkEnte, or whatever it's called, which
>> summons Death in anthropomorphic personification into a magic
>> circle, should you find this a useful thing to do, and I believe
>> Rincewind shows up there.
>
>That was Eric, and Eric was the one who did the Rite (not of Ashkente,
>though). Rincewind had been trapped in the Dungeon Dimensions by the
>Sourceror episode, and since Eric was the wizrd equivalent of a spotty
>nerd, he got it wrong. Throughout the book he thinks Rincewind is a
>demon... and so does the Discworld, since he was summoned through an
>incantation, so Rincewind keeps doing magic despite his prior inability.
From the Pratchett Lspace synopsis page for Mort, toward the end:
"Albert, meanwhile, is indignant. He resolves to find Death, so he
makes a shock return to Unseen University, where he organises the
wizards to performing the Rite of AshkEnte. Mort is by now in the
pyramid when he begins to be sucked into a swirling vortex created by
the wizards. Ysabell punches him, and the shock separates his human
and Death sides. The part f him that is human remains and the part of
him that is Death vanishes. "
I think that Rincewind shows up in this sequence.
Dave Roy
Forrest
> I don't actually disown the early books but I know the later stuff
> is better
And yet...
"...down there was the head of an elephant as big as a reasonably
sized continent. One mighty tusk cut like a mountain against the
golden light, trailing a widening shadow towards the stars. The head
was slightly tilted, and a huge ruby eye might almost have been a red
supergiant that had managed to shine at noonday."
There are two Discworlds that intersect here, only one of which has
since been explored. There is a alternative set of potentialities in
that image...with less truth, I admit, but more beauty, of a certain
kind...that I think we shall never see realized. And there is a
sadness in this.
Dreamer
81fddf88.04062...@posting.google.com, "Forrest"
<gmaus...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Have you read _The Last Hero?_
D
Robert Carnegie
John Wilkins <john...@wilkins.id.au> writes
>Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <cbg9ft$3ak$1...@hood.uits.indiana.edu>, Damien R.
>> Sullivan <dasu...@cs.indiana.edu> writes
>> >Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >>In article <cbett6$kd2$1...@hood.uits.indiana.edu>, Damien R.
>> >>Sullivan <dasu...@cs.indiana.edu> writes
>> >>>nygdan_mo...@yahoo.com (R.Schenck) wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>> The wizzard series (that's not a typo) - Colour of Magic,
>> >>>>> The Light Fantastic, Eric, Sourcery, Interesting Times,
>> >>>>> The Last Continent
>> >>>>
>> >>>>At least the luggage stuck around. But rincewind isn't
>> >>>>involved in all of the above no? Just CoM, LF and one more
>> >>>>right? I like that
>> >>>No, that's an accurate list, though it leaves out _The Last
>> >>>Hero_. I guess I don't know if that'd be considered part of
>> >>>"the wizzard series", but he's in it.
>> >>
>> >>No, hang on, Rincewind is also in _Mort_ (slightly), _Sourcery_,
>> >>_Eric_, _Interesting Times_ (with Twoflower), _The Last
>> >>Continent_, and _The Science of Discworld_. At least.
>> >
>> >Grr. That's what I meant. I was disagreeing with Schenk and
>> >agreeing with the long list up top. I don't remember him in Mort,
>> >though.
>>
>> Ah, okay. I'm not sure how many of us were confused in this
>> conversation.
>>
>> wizards do the Rite of AshkEnte, or whatever it's called, which
>> summons Death in anthropomorphic personification into a magic
>> circle, should you find this a useful thing to do, and I believe
>> Rincewind shows up there.
>
>That was Eric, and Eric was the one who did the Rite (not of Ashkente,
>though). Rincewind had been trapped in the Dungeon Dimensions by the
>Sourceror episode, and since Eric was the wizrd equivalent of a spotty
>nerd, he got it wrong. Throughout the book he thinks Rincewind is a
>demon... and so does the Discworld, since he was summoned through
>an
>incantation, so Rincewind keeps doing magic despite his prior inability.
And also because [spoiler]. Is it really him doing it, or...?
But Rincewind is also in _Mort_, at least in my copy; when Malich
turns up at the University and starts setting things on fire and
planning to do an AE, Rincewind is first to deny being a smoker.
Which is the right answer, but once again it's not a good day to be
Rincewind. "I don't even /remember/ walking under a mirror", as
he sadly reflects.
...this isn't the place to ask, I shall take it to that which is
(alt.fan.pratchett), but I wonder whether Mr. Pratchett today would
have made smoking go along with wizardry so consistently.
Extreme old age does so, too, and there's a paradox there,
obviously - but one that can be fixed magically, I expect. They
probably use a reannual herb that gives you the lungs of the Big
Bad Wolf.
R.Schenck
snip
>>character. Such a sniveling little bastard. I saw an 'illustrated
>>discworld fable' at the store the other day, it was intersting to see
>>that cohen looked quite like I pictured him, and rincewind was
>
> That was probably _The Last Hero_.
Hopefully it won't lead to some saturnday morning animated spin-off like
'clerks' did.
>
> -xx- Damien X-)
>