"It's not manufactured, it's producer driven"
David Cowie
writing and production team Xenomania, in which he said of his music
“I object to the word ’manufactured’ cause I think its invariably said
with a vague sneer. The real phrase is ’producer driven’. "
Which makes me wonder: is there any SF/F which could be politely
described as "editor driven"? The credited author writes all the
words, but the important creative decisions (e.g about plot and
subject) are taken by the editor. Media tie-in novels come to mind,
but I'm sure that there must be others. Possibly published by John
Campbell.
Dorothy J Heydt
Yes, Heinlein's _Sixth Column_ was written to Campbell's
outline (toned down quite a bit, though). In more recent
days, there was a vogue a while back for novels by
Bignameauthor and Unknownnewbie, where Bignameauthor did the
outline and got top billing (and probably, more money) and
Unknownnewbie wrote the book. The one that comes to my mind
right off is Cherryh and Fish's _A Dirge for Sabis_, which
was interesting. There were two sequels by Cherryh and two
other people, which weren't interesting, and I've forgotten
their titles.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
Brenda Clough
> A couple of weeks ago I read an interview with the leader of the pop
> writing and production team Xenomania, in which he said of his music
> with a vague sneer. The real phrase is �producer driven�. "
> Which makes me wonder: is there any SF/F which could be politely
> described as "editor driven"? The credited author writes all the
> words, but the important creative decisions (e.g about plot and
> subject) are taken by the editor. Media tie-in novels come to mind,
> but I'm sure that there must be others. Possibly published by John
> Campbell.
Or things like the Thieves World anthologies?
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
My novel REVISE THE WORLD is now appearing at
www.bookviewcafe.com
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:KpI9s...@kithrup.com:
> In article
> <3521980e-a25e-4418...@r39g2000yqm.googlegroups.co
> m>, David Cowie <david...@lineone.net> wrote:
>>A couple of weeks ago I read an interview with the leader of the
>>pop writing and production team Xenomania, in which he said of
>>his music �I object to the word �manufactured� cause I think its
>>invariably said with a vague sneer. The real phrase is �producer
>>driven�. " Which makes me wonder: is there any SF/F which could
>>be politely described as "editor driven"? The credited author
>>writes all the words, but the important creative decisions (e.g
>>about plot and subject) are taken by the editor. Media tie-in
>>novels come to mind, but I'm sure that there must be others.
>>Possibly published by John Campbell.
>
> Yes, Heinlein's _Sixth Column_ was written to Campbell's
> outline (toned down quite a bit, though). In more recent
> days, there was a vogue a while back for novels by
> Bignameauthor and Unknownnewbie, where Bignameauthor did the
> outline and got top billing (and probably, more money) and
> Unknownnewbie wrote the book. The one that comes to my mind
> right off is Cherryh and Fish's _A Dirge for Sabis_, which
> was interesting. There were two sequels by Cherryh and two
> other people, which weren't interesting, and I've forgotten
> their titles.
>
Rendezvous with Rama sequals come to mind. Much as I wish they
didn't.
--
Terry Austin
Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. - David
Bilek
Yeah, I had Terry confused with Hannibal Lecter. - Mike Schilling
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Greg Goss
Campbell was famous for this. The reason he stopped writing fiction
when he became an editor was so that all of his ideas could go into
the writers he was working with. It's too bad he didn't break that
rule for the famous November 1948 (I think) issue. The interference
might not have stretched to plot, but humans pretty much had to win,
and endings otherwise needed to be upbeat.
Harlequin tried to run an SF division in the seventies. It failed.
I'm not sure how much they interfered with the authors writing for
that.
Are you excluding movie novelizations, or movie-canon novels?
The back of my mind is saying "Ace", but I can't remember any examples
or evidence. That might not be correct.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Greg Goss
>In more recent
>days, there was a vogue a while back for novels by
>Bignameauthor and Unknownnewbie, where Bignameauthor did the
>outline and got top billing (and probably, more money) and
>Unknownnewbie wrote the book. [Cherryh]
Other examples are Niven, Pournelle, Clark.
David Cowie
> Are you excluding movie novelizations, or movie-canon novels?
No, but I'm hoping for examples outside those areas.
Hallvard B Furuseth
>David Cowie <david...@lineone.net> wrote:
>> (...) is there any SF/F which could be politely
>> described as "editor driven"? The credited author writes all the
>> words, but the important creative decisions (e.g about plot and
>> subject) are taken by the editor. Media tie-in novels come to mind,
>> but I'm sure that there must be others. Possibly published by John
>> Campbell.
>
> Yes, Heinlein's _Sixth Column_ was written to Campbell's
> outline (toned down quite a bit, though). In more recent
> days, there was a vogue a while back for novels by
> Bignameauthor and Unknownnewbie, where Bignameauthor did the
> outline and got top billing (and probably, more money) and
> Unknownnewbie wrote the book.
There still is, since that is a way for Unknownnewbie to become
Knownauthor so people actually pick up and look at his books.
Hopefully Bignameauthor also reviews the result and tells
Unknownnewbie to how to fix his mistakes, so there indeed is
a fairly intense editing of a sort going on.
> The one that comes to my mind
> right off is Cherryh and Fish's _A Dirge for Sabis_, which
> was interesting. There were two sequels by Cherryh and two
> other people, which weren't interesting, and I've forgotten
> their titles.
At Baen: David Drake as Bignameauthor. Eric Flint, first as
Unknownnewbie, later as Bignameauthor. David Weber / John Ringo
with the March Upcountry series. Probably others too.
--
Hallvard
firebi...@invalid.invalid
>
>>In more recent
>>days, there was a vogue a while back for novels by
>>Bignameauthor and Unknownnewbie, where Bignameauthor did the
>>outline and got top billing (and probably, more money) and
>>Unknownnewbie wrote the book. [Cherryh]
I got sucked in once by Tom Clancy. Now I won't buy anything with his
name on it period.
In general, I won't buy anything with Bignameauthor and Unknownnewbie
ever, although I may try one at the library.
Dorothy J Heydt
I seldom do either. I read _A Dirge for Sabis_ because
Unknownnewbie was the far-from-unknown-to-me Leslie Fish.
And she did a good job with it.
--
Kurt Busiek
Apparently, PRIDE AND PREJUDICE AND ZOMBIES was editorially-concieved,
and assigned to the guy who wrote it. He's using it as a springboard
for his own stuff, but he didn't originate the project.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Greg Goss
The Clancy / Unknownnewbie books are quite different from the books
with just his name on them. I like the latter and don't read the
former. But there are many people that hate both the solo author
books and the franchise books. I'm not going to put much effort into
trying to change your name.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
>Harlequin tried to run an SF division in the seventies. It failed.
>I'm not sure how much they interfered with the authors writing for
>that.
Laser Books. They had very definite requirements regarding length,
insisted on upbeat endings, and did some rewriting when they thought
an author was being too difficult for their readers. They did not,
however, muck around with the actual plots, as a general thing.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm selling my comic collection -- see http://www.watt-evans.com/comics.html
I'm serializing a novel at http://www.watt-evans.com/realmsoflight0.html
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
>Harlequin tried to run an SF division in the seventies. It failed.
>I'm not sure how much they interfered with the authors writing for
>that.
>
"Laser", I think it was with Roger Elwood as the line editor.
There obviously were some unbreakable editorial mandates -- I think
all the Laser books ran to exactly 190 (192?) pages. I think I recall
reading here, or in another forum that Elwood required also required
that sex be fairly discreet and that in general the ending should be
upbeat.
The line got a lot of bad press, but there were some good books in it
(a couple of John Moressy "Starbrat" univers books, K. W. Jeter's debut,
some new books by '50s stalwarts and lots of nice Freas covers).
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
James Nicoll
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:56:27 -0700, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
>>Harlequin tried to run an SF division in the seventies. It failed.
>>I'm not sure how much they interfered with the authors writing for
>>that.
>
>Laser Books. They had very definite requirements regarding length,
>insisted on upbeat endings, and did some rewriting when they thought
>an author was being too difficult for their readers. They did not,
>however, muck around with the actual plots, as a general thing.
>
Laser (Well, and Tim Powers but he is pretty low profile as far as
directly talking about his books. I don't even know if he has a blog).
Enjoy!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Anthony#But_What_of_Earth.3F_controversy
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Dorothy J Heydt
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>
>>Harlequin tried to run an SF division in the seventies. It failed.
>>I'm not sure how much they interfered with the authors writing for
>>that.
>
>Laser Books. They had very definite requirements regarding length,
>insisted on upbeat endings, and did some rewriting when they thought
>an author was being too difficult for their readers. They did not,
>however, muck around with the actual plots, as a general thing.
Their themes, IIRC, were heavy on the male-chauvinist-piggery.
I remember the editor of the series giving a talk at some con
back in those days, and one very angry woman stalking out of
the room muttering, "I want to castrate that guy!" "Nah,
nah," said I. "Don't buy his books. Castrate him in his
*wallet*. That's where it really hurts."
And I guess she didn't buy his books, and I didn't, and a lot
of other people didn't (because most fen, even those of the
male persuasion, are not as piggy as all that), and the
series went under.
Peter Knutsen
> Rendezvous with Rama sequals come to mind. Much as I wish they
> didn't.
They actually weren't too bad. They were just rather different in style,
theme and content, from the original novel.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Karsten Kretschmer
> The Clancy / Unknownnewbie books are quite different from the books
> with just his name on them. I like the latter and don't read the
> former.
I have read all the Ryanverse books up to and including "The Bear and
the Dragon". In retrospect, I think I should have stopped after
"The Sum of all Fears". There were just too many occurrences of "What
was he thinking? He can't really mean ..." in the later books.
Ciao, Karsten
--
kkretsch@charon:~% fortune -s
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Ken from Chicago
"Peter Knutsen" <pe...@sagatafl.invalid> wrote in message
news:4aa38db5$0$280$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
Does the Asimov novels linking Robots, Federation and Empire count? They
seemed more like a challenge that all work by a writer should share the same
universe.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Kurt Busiek" <ku...@busiek.com> wrote in message
news:h7up2j$5g3$1...@solani.org...
Wabout PRIDE AND PREJUDICE AND SEA MONSTERS?
http://www.wanderinggoblin.com/2009/07/15/pride-and-prejudice-and-sea-monsters/
-- Ken from Chicago
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>> Rendezvous with Rama sequals come to mind. Much as I wish they
>> didn't.
>
> They actually weren't too bad. They were just rather different
> in style, theme and content, from the original novel.
>
Plus, they sucked throbbing purple donkey dick.
Greg Goss
>Am Sat, 05 Sep 2009 15:57:42 -0700 schrieb Greg Goss:
>> The Clancy / Unknownnewbie books are quite different from the books
>> with just his name on them. I like the latter and don't read the
>> former.
>
>I have read all the Ryanverse books up to and including "The Bear and
>the Dragon". In retrospect, I think I should have stopped after
>"The Sum of all Fears". There were just too many occurrences of "What
>was he thinking? He can't really mean ..." in the later books.
He has to keep making "Ryanverse" novels until six have been made into
movies. The six-movie contract means that the movie guys get to write
their own Ryan story (movie and novel) if he stops.
I believe that I read somewhere that he hated what they did with Clark
in Clear and Present Danger. That conflict may have been related to
his raising Clark to a more major position (including two of his own
books) later.
The contract on "Ryan" books is why Rainbow Six doesn't mention Ryan.
There are several references to "Your friend the President", but
never by name.
I liked most of the Ryanverse books except the last one. I've been
told that I've somehow tuned out the half of Executive Orders that was
preachy policy. I remember enjoying it. Bear and Dragon worked for
me. But the first "Ryan Junior" book -- Tail of the Tiger -- was
pathetic, unless he's setting us up for a hubris novel next.
Konrad Gaertner
>
> "Kurt Busiek" <ku...@busiek.com> wrote in message
> news:h7up2j$5g3$1...@solani.org...
> >
> > assigned to the guy who wrote it. He's using it as a springboard for his
> > own stuff, but he didn't originate the project.
>
>
> http://www.wanderinggoblin.com/2009/07/15/pride-and-prejudice-and-sea-monsters/
Anyone know the story behind _Mr. Darcy, Vampyre_?
--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll
firebi...@invalid.invalid
I actually liked the original Clancy books. When I got sucked in, I
refuse to *buy* any more even with just his name on them. In short,
I'm voting with my feet and staying away from Clancy because I feel he
screwed me once.
Mark Zenier
I take you it that you've never run afoul of the Byron Priess Visual
Publications extrusion factory that was active in the late 1980s,
during the boom. As I understand it, they were a book packager with
comics and games tie-ins that would develop and commission works with
well known authors. After being burned more than once by an empty waste
of time supposedly written by 'a name', I started checking the credits.
I just got curious enough to check out copyright.gov and see what was
listed under "Byron Priess Visual Publications". _Bill the Galactic Hero,
on the Planet of Tasteless Pleasure_ and the rest of that series is
a good example of what you're talking about. And it's a good bet that
the _Zork Chronicles_ by George Alec Effinger is too. (I couldn't find
the ones I remember, (a Gerrold? and a Saberhagen?), perhaps they were
able to get the copyright in their name).
Not everything with their name on it was hollow, Mel Gilden's `Zoot
Marlowe` series (_Hawaiian UFO Aliens_, etc.) are amusing.
And then there are forests that have been felled for game derived works
that are (mercifully) on a separate shelf from the rest of the SF section
(or from publishers that are only sold in stores specializing in games).
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
Mike Schilling
I recall seeing one at a grocery store checkout line called something
like _Tom Clancy's Op Center_. The title sounded like a franchise
deal, but there was no clue who had actually written it, either on the
cover or on the title page. Clearly a case of "This name sells books,
so we'll put it on as many as we possibly can."
Kurt Busiek
<kwicker1...@comcast.net> said:
Same thing, though you and that URL have the title wrong. The clip at
the URL has it right.
Same publisher, same editor, same series -- they've assigned a
different writer this time. The first one got enough of a boost out of
it that he's gotten his own lucrative contracts out of it.
Dimensional Traveler
> Am Sat, 05 Sep 2009 15:57:42 -0700 schrieb Greg Goss:
>> The Clancy / Unknownnewbie books are quite different from the books
>> with just his name on them. I like the latter and don't read the
>> former.
>
> I have read all the Ryanverse books up to and including "The Bear and
> the Dragon". In retrospect, I think I should have stopped after
> "The Sum of all Fears". There were just too many occurrences of "What
> was he thinking? He can't really mean ..." in the later books.
>
newsmagazine shows, where he walked the reporter thru his house and
showed us how he laid out plotlines to be handed over to anonymous
writers for the actual book writing. He was very upfront about the fact
that he hadn't done any actual writing in many years. I seem to
remember it was Clancy.
--
Things I learned from Usenet #29: Do not chew the peach.
Veni, Vidi, Snarki.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Greg Goss
Clancy has a lot of franchise books, plus the "Ryan and Clark" books.
The internal style is quite different.
I could well believe in the story factory you describe for Clancy's
franchise books.
The problem is the Ryan/Clark books. Hmmm. The rather awful "Teeth
of the Tiger" was six years ago. Does six count as "many"? Before
that he was doing a major "Ryan" book every year or two.
Mike Ash
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> The problem is the Ryan/Clark books. Hmmm. The rather awful "Teeth
> of the Tiger" was six years ago. Does six count as "many"? Before
> that he was doing a major "Ryan" book every year or two.
This is curious. You got me wondering about what Clancy had done with
his universe since the last book I read, _Rainbow Six_, so I hit up
Wikipedia's entry for _Teeth of the Tiger_ and read the plot summary.
At which point I realized that all of the details sounded familiar, and
indeed that I could remember individual scenes.
I must have read it and then completely forgotten about it, not only
what it was about but the fact that I had even read it at all.
Now I'm trying to figure out why. I decided that Clancy was crap around
_Rainbow Six_ and decided not to read any more of his stuff. I can only
assume that my father gave it to me (he likes to give me books, but alas
doesn't realize that my tastes have changed since I was 15, and that I
don't enjoy right-wing propaganda*) and that I read it, but I usually
leave his stuff unread.... Weird.
Incidentally, Wikipedia's plot summaries do a good job of highlighting
how ridiculous Clancy's plotting is. A joint Japanese/Chinese invasion
of Siberia? China invading a heavily nuclear-armed opponent and nobody
glowing in the dark afterwards? Launching ICBMs against the US because
of a military defeat outside their own borders? There's just no basis in
reality here.
* Not intending to describe Clancy as right-wing propaganda, but rather
that's the OTHER type of book he likes to give me, in addition to the
lame technothrillers.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
T Guy
A couple of weeks ago I read an interview with the leader of the pop
> writing and production team Xenomania, in which he said of his music
> “I object to the word ’manufactured’ cause I think its invariably said
> with a vague sneer. The real phrase is ’producer driven’. "
(Tim):
Absolutely correct, though I'd use the term 'producer-created' if I
were pushed to use a term to describe what I regard as the default
method of creating music.
Xenomania is correct; I strongly suspect that rockists use the word
’manufactured’ because it sounds like a pejorative in the context.
(David Cowie <david_co...@lineone.net>):
> Which makes me wonder: is there any SF/F which could be politely
> described as "editor driven"?
(Tim):
Well, I think you're using an at best shaky alalogy, but that was only
after thinking of John Campbell.
(David Cowie <david_co...@lineone.net>):
The credited author writes all the
> words, but the important creative decisions (e.g about plot and
> subject) are taken by the editor. Media tie-in novels come to mind,
> but I'm sure that there must be others. Possibly published by John
> Campbell.
(Tim):
Speak of the angel!
And I've just thought of Laser books. If I recall the name correctly -
the SF arm of the North American arm of Mills and Boon.
While we're on my pet peeve or bete noir, I'll just retrace David's
steps a foot or two...
(David Cowie <david_co...@lineone.net>):
credited author writes all the words, but the important creative
decisions
(Tim):
This entire issue only arises because record used routinely to be
credited to other people than the ones who made 'the important
creative decisions.' This began to change in the late 1980s, but is
still often the case.
Tim
T Guy
>
> > Which makes me wonder: is there any SF/F which could be politely
> > described as "editor driven"?
>
>
> Well, I think you're using an at best shaky alalogy, but that was only
> after thinking of John Campbell.
(Tim):
Or even 'aNalogy,' which would have not only been the correct
spelling but also almost a pun.
> (old Tim):
> And I've just thought of Laser books. If I recall the name correctly -
> the SF arm of the North American arm of Mills and Boon.
(Tim):
As did a couple of other people sooner than I.
Tim
T Guy
is there any SF/F which could be politely
> described as "editor driven"? The credited author writes all the
> words, but the important creative decisions (e.g about plot and
> subject) are taken by the editor.
(Tim):
The Doc Savage novels came to mind, but they are not really an example
of this, or rather are too far away from it to be considered IMO.
I believe that Lester Dent conceived his own plots and was responsible
for fleshing out the characters of his aides - and, perhaps more
importantly, sub-contracted out the writing, as oppossed to the editor
or publisher assigning work to others.
Any more expert on the topic than I around?
Tim
James Nicoll
T Guy <Tim.B...@redbridge.gov.uk> wrote:
>
>And I've just thought of Laser books. If I recall the name correctly -
>the SF arm of the North American arm of Mills and Boon.
Not quite. Laser was published by Harlequin. Harlequin had a
contract with Mills and Boon that allowed them to sell M&B books over
here in Canada and the US (although most of their sales were in Canada
and they had a deal with Pocket in the US until the mid-1970s). In 1971
or thereabouts, Harlequin bought Mills and Boon. Mills and Boon and
Laser were both branches of the same parent company but Harlequin
was never a branch of Mills and Boon.
Robert Carnegie
> A couple of weeks ago I read an interview with the leader of the pop
> writing and production team Xenomania, in which he said of his music
> “I object to the word ’manufactured’ cause I think its invariably said
> with a vague sneer. The real phrase is ’producer driven’. "
> described as "editor driven"? The credited author writes all the
> words, but the important creative decisions (e.g about plot and
> but I'm sure that there must be others. Possibly published by John
> Campbell.
Well, why would you do it that way - tell a presumably adequate named
author what to write? Media tie-in is one area, yes, where a _Star
Trek_ style is imposed on the text: it'll be "fact-checked". It may
be "not canon" but they don't want to publish something /too/
startling. Quite an effort seems to have been made to make _Star
Wars_ novels into a canon. So killing (spoiler character name) would
probably not be the writer's independent decision. It would apply to
a shared world or shared style series, which has been covered;
unconnected books that present a particular worldview that readers may
identify with and buy the rest of the series. And in television
serial fiction, you're likely to get a script editor's instructions
about what your episode should do to move plot along, plus which
character actors and sets are available: thus episodes of _Doctor Who_
for instance where Doctor Who himself is mostly missing, or where
action in the background is going to become significant later on.
Szymon Sokół
> Am Sat, 05 Sep 2009 15:57:42 -0700 schrieb Greg Goss:
>> The Clancy / Unknownnewbie books are quite different from the books
>> with just his name on them. I like the latter and don't read the
>> former.
>
> I have read all the Ryanverse books up to and including "The Bear and
> the Dragon". In retrospect, I think I should have stopped after
> "The Sum of all Fears". There were just too many occurrences of "What
> was he thinking? He can't really mean ..." in the later books.
Yeah, me too. BTW, in Clancy's case at least one of the unknownnewbies
(Steve Pieczenik) became a Bignameauthor himself, hiring another
unknownnewbie to write books...
--
Szymon Sokół (SS316-RIPE) -- Network Manager B
Computer Center, AGH - University of Science and Technology, Cracow, Poland O
http://home.agh.edu.pl/szymon/ PGP key id: RSA: 0x2ABE016B, DSS: 0xF9289982 F
Free speech includes the right not to listen, if not interested -- Heinlein H
Szymon Sokół
> I recall seeing one at a grocery store checkout line called something
> like _Tom Clancy's Op Center_. The title sounded like a franchise
> deal, but there was no clue who had actually written it, either on the
> cover or on the title page. Clearly a case of "This name sells books,
> so we'll put it on as many as we possibly can."
I have read one of those a few years ago. Except the chief protagonist's
name, which was Paul Hood, I remember completely nothing. Secondary
characters? No. Plot points? Neither. Some gadgets maybe? None of those.
I doubt I will ever return to that series.
Robert Carnegie
Not I, but the process you describe seems to cast Lester Dent as the
editor who gets someone else to write the thing from an outline, but
this time his name is on the cover.
There are or have been of course franchise pseudonyms, which cover one
or more uncredited authors, such as Victor Appleton of the Tom Swift
series, Victor Appleton Jr., and Victor Appleton III.
Peter Knutsen
> Does the Asimov novels linking Robots, Federation and Empire count? They
> seemed more like a challenge that all work by a writer should share the same
> universe.
One could perhpas get away with claiming that the Asimov who wrote the
Foundation Trilogy was a different Asimov from the one who wrote the
continuations and prequels several decades later.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>
>T Guy wrote:
>> (David Cowie <david_co...@lineone.net> ):
>>
>> is there any SF/F which could be politely
>> > described as "editor driven"? The credited author writes all the
>> > words, but the important creative decisions (e.g about plot and
>> > subject) are taken by the editor.
>>
>> (Tim):
>>
>> The Doc Savage novels came to mind, but they are not really an example
>> of this, or rather are too far away from it to be considered IMO.
>>
>> I believe that Lester Dent conceived his own plots and was responsible
>> for fleshing out the characters of his aides - and, perhaps more
>> importantly, sub-contracted out the writing, as oppossed to the editor
>> or publisher assigning work to others.
>>
>> Any more expert on the topic than I around?
>
>Not I, but the process you describe seems to cast Lester Dent as the
>editor who gets someone else to write the thing from an outline, but
>this time his name is on the cover.
Except Lester Dent's name WASN'T on the cover, ever.
The Doc Savage novels were credited to the fictional Kenneth Robeson.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
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T Guy
> >And I've just thought of Laser books. If I recall the name correctly -
> >the SF arm of the North American arm of Mills and Boon.
(jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll) ):
Not quite. Laser was published by Harlequin. Harlequin had a
> contract with Mills and Boon that allowed them to sell M&B books over
> here in Canada and the US (although most of their sales were in Canada
> and they had a deal with Pocket in the US until the mid-1970s). In 1971
> or thereabouts, Harlequin bought Mills and Boon. Mills and Boon and
> Laser were both branches of the same parent company but Harlequin
> was never a branch of Mills and Boon.
(T Guy):
Thanks for clarifying this for me, James.
T Guy
P. S. Re-reading before sending, I realise that can be read as
sarcasm; it's not, I am genuinely interested in this sort of minutiae.
Comes from being a fan of some sort, I suppose...
Michael Stemper
>T Guy wrote:
>> The Doc Savage novels came to mind, but they are not really an example
>> of this, or rather are too far away from it to be considered IMO.
>>
>> I believe that Lester Dent conceived his own plots and was responsible
>> for fleshing out the characters of his aides - and, perhaps more
>> importantly, sub-contracted out the writing, as oppossed to the editor
>> or publisher assigning work to others.
>>
>> Any more expert on the topic than I around?
>
>Not I, but the process you describe seems to cast Lester Dent as the
>editor who gets someone else to write the thing from an outline, but
That's how I read that description, as well.
>this time his name is on the cover.
Except, of course, that they spelled it "Kenneth Robeson".
I have no idea whether or not that is pronounced "Luxury Yacht".
--
Michael F. Stemper
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William December Starr
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> said:
> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
>> Harlequin tried to run an SF division in the seventies. It
>> failed. I'm not sure how much they interfered with the authors
>> writing for that.
>
> Laser Books. They had very definite requirements regarding
> length, insisted on upbeat endings, and did some rewriting when
> they thought an author was being too difficult for their readers.
They also spent millions scientifically developing iron-clad cover
design specs that maximized buyer repulsion.
-- wds
William Hyde
> In article <vdc6a5dv55uhsoniljc69ngc3jo5hi8...@news.eternal-
>
> And I guess she didn't buy his books, and I didn't, and a lot
> of other people didn't (because most fen, even those of the
> male persuasion, are not as piggy as all that), and the
> series went under.
I never really got close enough to a Laser book to detect flaws like
sexism. They were self-evidently cheap crap, and I never bought one.
This was at the time when I bought most paperback SF - Laser and Perry
Rhodan being the exceptions. I may also have noticed that Elwood was
behind them, and I was already getting very tired of him.
William Hyde
Matthias Warkus
> Incidentally, Wikipedia's plot summaries do a good job of highlighting
> how ridiculous Clancy's plotting is. A joint Japanese/Chinese invasion
> of Siberia? China invading a heavily nuclear-armed opponent and nobody
> glowing in the dark afterwards? Launching ICBMs against the US because
> of a military defeat outside their own borders? There's just no basis in
> reality here.
Maybe he's hired John Savard as a consultant. You never know.
mawa