Good Military SF novels that contian minimal technobabble
aalu...@webtv.net
trying to stick with the Posloon novels. I am getting through by
skimming through the technobabble. His battle scenes also tend to be too
clinically written almost like what you woud get in a text book.
I am on book 3 and at this point its more stubborness and odd masochism
pushing me to the end. After this book I am done with Ringo.
Any good military SF writers that keep technobabble to the minimum. I
read the first Honor Harrington book it wasn't bad. I liked the
characters but too much technobabble.
Basically I care a whole lot more on characters and story then
technology descriptions - they are important but no more then a
paragraph or two not a history of the device and every little detail.
Mike Schilling
<aalu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:10163-432...@storefull-3311.bay.webtv.net...
Have you tried Bujold?
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
<aalu...@webtv.net> wrote:
>
>
>Any good military SF writers that keep technobabble to the minimum. I
>read the first Honor Harrington book it wasn't bad. I liked the
>characters but too much technobabble.
The first one is the best (and it's darn good), techno-babble increases
after that. And treecats.
>
>Basically I care a whole lot more on characters and story then
>technology descriptions - they are important but no more then a
>paragraph or two not a history of the device and every little detail.
>
I assume you've read _Starship Troopers_. How about Dickson's Dorsai
books? The first couple of Baldwin's "Helmsman" books are good preposterous
fun.
Ted
Dan Goodman
> I am struggling with John Ringo. I nearly gave up numerious times but
> trying to stick with the Posloon novels. I am getting through by
> skimming through the technobabble. His battle scenes also tend to be
> too clinically written almost like what you woud get in a text book.
I don't read stories in which The Enemy is totally and completely Evil.
So I haven't read those.
Of course, it's possible that the Posleen will turn out to actually be
victims. That kind of reversal has been done in spec-fic.
I did read, and enjoy, the series he did with David Weber which begins
with _March Upcountry_. (And that's not likely to be entirely due to
Weber's contribution -- because Honor Harrington bores me.)
--
Dan Goodman
Journal http://www.livejournal.com/users/dsgood/
Clutterers Anonymous unofficial community
http://www.livejournal.com/community/clutterers_anon/
Decluttering http://decluttering.blogspot.com
Predictions and Politics http://dsgood.blogspot.com
All political parties die at last of swallowing their own lies.
John Arbuthnot (1667-1735), Scottish writer, physician.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Dan Goodman <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>
>
>aalu...@webtv.net wrote:
>
>> I am struggling with John Ringo. I nearly gave up numerious times but
>> trying to stick with the Posloon novels. I am getting through by
>> skimming through the technobabble. His battle scenes also tend to be
>> too clinically written almost like what you woud get in a text book.
>
>I don't read stories in which The Enemy is totally and completely Evil.
>So I haven't read those.
>
>Of course, it's possible that the Posleen will turn out to actually be
>victims. That kind of reversal has been done in spec-fic.
>
>I did read, and enjoy, the series he did with David Weber which begins
>with _March Upcountry_. (And that's not likely to be entirely due to
>Weber's contribution -- because Honor Harrington bores me.)
>
>
>--
>Dan Goodman
I gave up on the Posleen, but certainly it was said several times that
they were victim to some very nasty genetic engineering..
I really enjoyed the first several March Upcountry books, but the
latest completely fell apart for me.
Ted
Wayne Throop
:: but trying to stick with the Posloon novels. I am getting through by
:: skimming through the technobabble. His battle scenes also tend to be
:: too clinically written almost like what you woud get in a text book.
: "Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com>
: I don't read stories in which The Enemy is totally and completely Evil.
: So I haven't read those.
The Posloonies aren't totally and completely Evil.
They are merely misunderstood.
No, seriously. They're just predisposed by their biology
to be a bit ... um ... socially challenged. But in Hell's Faire,
and in (authorially sharecropped) The Hero, we find some of them
are recruited into goodguy organizations, and by and by they control
their antisocial impulses, mostly. After eating a few billion of
their neighbors, but hey, you gonna let a little social faux pas
like that ruin the start of a beautiful friendship?
Of course, the real bad guys of the series are the Aldente, but
that's likely to be another case of ignorance breeding contempt;
we don't know squat about 'em, other than that they really went
and ruined the Darhel and Posloonies' days with genetic manipulation.
Of course, given their name, perhaps their creating the Posloonies
explains why they disappeared from the scene long ago. Hrm.
But I digress. Let's see... military SF with minimal technobabble.
Does Miles Vorkosigan count? It's more nearly spy-vs-spy stuff, but
still. How about Dread Empire's Fall? There's a bit-o-babble (futureward
wars will require a bit), but the focus is the decadent/disfunctional
politics and interpersonal goings-on, mostly.
I'm sure there's more, but they don't spring to mind just now.
Soon after I post, I'm sure tens of them will pop to mind. Sigh.
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Brian Sanderson
Best Mil Sci-fi I have read since "Starship Troopers"
I also have a soft spot for most anything set in the Bolo Omniverse. David
Weber's Old Soldiers just came out, can't WAIT to read it!!!
JavaJosh
aalu...@webtv.net wrote:
<sniP>
> Basically I care a whole lot more on characters and story then
> technology descriptions - they are important but no more then a
> paragraph or two not a history of the device and every little detail.
Okay, this is gonna sound really strange, especially coming from me.
But I *like* Pournelle's Falkenburg's Legion tales in particular, and
the CoDominium future history in general. In fact, I'd have to say that
the "War World" series is one of the best Mil-SF things I've ever read.
Ever. Heck, you have Turtledove contributing to the first book.
Pournelle is many things, but loading you down with techno babble is
definitely NOT his style.
I haven't read this in a long time, but I have fond recollections of
"The Burning Eye" and the rest of the War World books.
David Cowie
>
> Basically I care a whole lot more on characters and story then
> technology descriptions - they are important but no more then a
> paragraph or two not a history of the device and every little detail.
Have you read _The Forever War_ by Joe Haldeman? Time dilation means that
every mission lasts decades, or even centuries, and society keeps on
changing while our hero is away.
--
David Cowie
Containment Failure + 16150:37
how...@brazee.net
novel But David Drake is going to be a GOH at MileHiCon, so I picked up a
few of his books (actually duplicating one book I already had).
I lucked out. He has a series that I've fallen in love with. It's
Patrick O'Brian style space opera in a grand style. The 4th book in this
series is in hardback (I bought it a month after discovering the series).
The 5th book is coming out next year.
Thomas Lindgren
how...@brazee.net writes:
> Patrick O'Brian style space opera in a grand style.
I've read both ingredients, but this combination stumps me?
Best,
Thomas
--
Thomas Lindgren
"It's becoming popular? It must be in decline." -- Isaiah Berlin
Dean White
"Thomas Lindgren" <***********@*****.***> wrote in message
news:m3u0gjj...@localhost.localdomain...
>
> how...@brazee.net writes:
>
>> Patrick O'Brian style space opera in a grand style.
>
> I've read both ingredients, but this combination stumps me?
>
This most likely would be the 'Lt Leary' series With the Lightning's, Lt.
Leary Commanding, The Far Side of the Stars and The Way to Glory.
--
www.deanwhite.net
Taki Kogoma
allegedly declared to rec.arts.sf.written...
>In article <432b9289$0$63625$8046...@newsreader.iphouse.net>,
>Dan Goodman <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>>aalu...@webtv.net wrote:
>>> I am struggling with John Ringo. I nearly gave up numerious times but
>>> trying to stick with the Posloon novels. I am getting through by
>>> skimming through the technobabble. His battle scenes also tend to be
>>> too clinically written almost like what you woud get in a text book.
>>
>>I did read, and enjoy, the series he did with David Weber which begins
>>with _March Upcountry_. (And that's not likely to be entirely due to
>>Weber's contribution -- because Honor Harrington bores me.)
>
>they were victim to some very nasty genetic engineering..
>
>I really enjoyed the first several March Upcountry books, but the
>latest completely fell apart for me.
Yeah. I think it was the combination of leaving Marduk and the
interminable space battle sequences that soured it for me.
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk (Known to some as Taki Kogoma) quirk @ swcp.com
Just an article detector on the Information Supercollider.
David Salmansohn
I just finished _The_Dark_Wing_. Worth the time I put into it. One
or two small techy infodumps, but nothing too jarring.
Of course, I really like most Weber, so YMMV.
--David Salmansohn--
Change "nospam" to my first name and .org to .com to reply
A.G.McDowell
how...@brazee.net writes
and didn't realise I should check for more at some stage. Very
entertaining - not quite up to Patrick O'Brian's originals but that's an
awfully high standard.
--
A.G.McDowell
erilar
Salmansohn <nos...@salmansohn.org> wrote:
>
> I just finished _The_Dark_Wing_. Worth the time I put into it. One
> or two small techy infodumps, but nothing too jarring.
>
> Of course, I really like most Weber, so YMMV.
I agree. We could probably recommend books for each other 8-)
--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)
You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument
is that reason doesn't count. Isaac Asimov
Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo
Bradford Holden
>
> Basically I care a whole lot more on characters and story then
> technology descriptions - they are important but no more then a
> paragraph or two not a history of the device and every little detail.
>
In addition to some of the other good suggestions (The Forever War,
for example), I would suggest Robert Frezza's _A Small Colonial War_.
The technology plays a role but the stars are the people, both good
and bad. I especially like that he gets you to like some of the
characters because of their humor and basic humanity, but then kills
them off because, well gee, it is war. I also like his sense of humor
in this book (but stay away from his actual comedy's, he is trying to hard
in those). The sequels are so-so.
--
Bradford Holden
"When your wife tells you you can buy a power tool, you listen."
- RR
James Nicoll
Bradford Holden <hol...@oddjob.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>aalu...@webtv.net writes:
>
>>
>> Basically I care a whole lot more on characters and story then
>> technology descriptions - they are important but no more then a
>> paragraph or two not a history of the device and every little detail.
>>
>
>In addition to some of the other good suggestions (The Forever War,
>for example), I would suggest Robert Frezza's _A Small Colonial War_.
>The technology plays a role but the stars are the people, both good
>and bad. I especially like that he gets you to like some of the
>characters because of their humor and basic humanity, but then kills
>them off because, well gee, it is war. I also like his sense of humor
>in this book (but stay away from his actual comedy's, he is trying to hard
>in those). The sequels are so-so.
>
that time has not been kind to.
SPOILERS
"Let us demonstrate our utter sincerity by ramming a large
commercial building in Tokyo, a symbol of our enemies, with a space
craft."
--
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
Bradford Holden
<spoiler snipped>
It was empty at the time, however.
Nonetheless, I thought it a silly ending.
James, it appears that you have read just about everything. Talk about
blessings and curses.....
James Nicoll
Bradford Holden <hol...@oddjob.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
><spoiler snipped>
>
>It was empty at the time, however.
>
>Nonetheless, I thought it a silly ending.
>
>James, it appears that you have read just about everything. Talk about
>blessings and curses.....
>
I read as fast as?
Before and after dinner, I read a Harry Dresden novel and before
I come down for my pre-bedtime news, I will have read another.
James Nicoll
Peter Meilinger
>In article <ilhdcjm...@oddjob.uchicago.edu>,
>Bradford Holden <hol...@oddjob.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>James, it appears that you have read just about everything. Talk about
>>blessings and curses.....
> I read as fast as -- Andrew, how many people would you say
>I read as fast as?
As fast as ten fast readers, perhaps? You could get a superhero
costume with a fanned-out book on the chest.
And now I'm reminded of the commercial for the Mandy Patinkin
CSI rip-off, in which a character claims to read something
like 100,000 words per minute. I have a hard time swallowing
that, personally.
Pete
Andrew Wheeler
>
> In article <ilhdcjm...@oddjob.uchicago.edu>,
> Bradford Holden <hol...@oddjob.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> >jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
> >
> ><spoiler snipped>
> >
> >It was empty at the time, however.
> >
> >Nonetheless, I thought it a silly ending.
> >
> >James, it appears that you have read just about everything. Talk about
> >blessings and curses.....
> >
> I read as fast as -- Andrew, how many people would you say
> I read as fast as?
I have, at current count, six first readers for the SFBC. James is more
than half of them.
(When I've got a lot of books to be read, I try to give him one for
every day of the week.)
--
Andrew Wheeler
--
No ideas but in things.
Wayne Throop
: As fast as ten fast readers, perhaps? You could get a superhero
: costume with a fanned-out book on the chest.
Shouldn't that be reserved for Yomiko Readman?
JavaJosh
James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <ilhdcjm...@oddjob.uchicago.edu>,
> Bradford Holden <hol...@oddjob.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> >jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
> >
> ><spoiler snipped>
> >
> >It was empty at the time, however.
> >
> >Nonetheless, I thought it a silly ending.
> >
> >James, it appears that you have read just about everything. Talk about
> >blessings and curses.....
> >
> I read as fast as -- Andrew, how many people would you say
> I read as fast as?
I imagine your pace varies with the material, but for an average book
how long does it take you to read a page, for example? (I read at a
slow-but-steady 1 page a minute or thereabouts - which is pretty darn
slow, I gather).
JavaJosh
That's so fast that one is limited by hand-eye coordination rather than
comprehension. Can you even turn the pages of a normal book that fast?
James Nicoll
Isn't that about average?
Depending on setting, print size, external factors and the
complexity of the text, generally 100 pages an hour, maybe a little
more*. I have no idea how I do it. I've been reading since about the
time I first chose to speak** but the zippy reading didn't kick in
until after I was ten (When I lived through a terrible book drought
in Brazil, the worst I ever saw, but that probably had nothing to do
with it).
By setting, I mean where I am reading it. Alone in a quiet
room = fast. TV playing something distracting = slower. Park = v.
slow. On a plane = ha ha ha. On a bus = very very fast, except for
the Bus Ride From Hell, where I was too busy fighting off hypothermia
and hoping the driver wouldn't land us in the firepits of Centralia
(read a Tenn and a McDonald, I think).
I remember my first SFBC MS was a Bova, THE PRECIPICE,
about 600 - 700 pages (in MS, they get shorter in book form). Sat
down, read it, got the report in in within 24 hours. What's even
better is guessing what I will have to read in the future, reading
it in otherwise wasted time***, doing the report up beforehand and
then achieving a turn around time between request and response of
less than a minute.
James Nicoll
* Today was more. Not sure why: all the signs were for a lousy day:
no chocolate for my coffee, allergies acting up, weather change makes
my head hurt.
** At four. I spoke perfectly lucid English when I got around to it,
so I don't know what all the fuss was about.
*** All time not spent working.
James Nicoll
Peter Meilinger <mell...@bu.edu> wrote:
>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>In article <ilhdcjm...@oddjob.uchicago.edu>,
>>Bradford Holden <hol...@oddjob.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
>>>James, it appears that you have read just about everything. Talk about
>>>blessings and curses.....
>
>> I read as fast as -- Andrew, how many people would you say
>>I read as fast as?
>
>As fast as ten fast readers, perhaps?
That would be so useful at Miskatonic U.
Stewart Robert Hinsley
<acwh...@optonline.com> writes
>
>I have, at current count, six first readers for the SFBC. James is more
>than half of them.
>
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
Peter D. Tillman
aalu...@webtv.net wrote:
> Any good military SF writers that keep technobabble to the minimum. I
> read the first Honor Harrington book it wasn't bad. I liked the
> characters but too much technobabble.
>
> Basically I care a whole lot more on characters and story then
> technology descriptions - they are important but no more then a
> paragraph or two not a history of the device and every little detail.
[scans booklog]
Poul Anderson- "No Truce with Kings", novella, "alien" invasion of
Calif. A/A+, post-apocalypse military-political SF, very nice, his
best?
Weber - Apocalypse Troll (99), "Take me to your leader" A,
Well-written mil-SF/romance, fast-paced & fun. My favorite Weber. See
http://www.sfsite.com/06a/ap58.htm
Happy reading--
Pete Tillman
--
Book Reviews: http://www.sfsite.com/revwho.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-reviews/-/A3GHSD9VY8XS4Q/
http://www.infinityplus.co.uk//nonfiction/reviews.htm
Google "Peter D. Tillman" +review for many more!
James Nicoll
<aalu...@webtv.net> wrote:
>
>Any good military SF writers that keep technobabble to the minimum. I
>read the first Honor Harrington book it wasn't bad. I liked the
>characters but too much technobabble.
>
>Basically I care a whole lot more on characters and story then
>technology descriptions - they are important but no more then a
>paragraph or two not a history of the device and every little detail.
>
Alexis Gilliland's fiction often involves military actions
(1) but it focuses on the people involved.
A number of Eric Frank Russell's works involve the military,
although often not in the context of combat. From a target's eye view,
there's I AM NOTHING and from an organizational point of view, there's
ALLAMAGOOSA. Both can be found in NESFA's MAJOR INGREDIENTS.
1: The Rosinate Trilogy is driven in part by the cascading consequences
of one little alteration in space habitat mirror technology.
JavaJosh
> In article <1127011093.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> JavaJosh <java...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >James Nicoll wrote:
> >> In article <ilhdcjm...@oddjob.uchicago.edu>,
> >> Bradford Holden <hol...@oddjob.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> >> >jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
> >> >
> >> ><spoiler snipped>
> >> >
> >> >It was empty at the time, however.
> >> >
> >> >Nonetheless, I thought it a silly ending.
> >> >
> >> >James, it appears that you have read just about everything. Talk about
> >> >blessings and curses.....
> >> >
> >> I read as fast as -- Andrew, how many people would you say
> >> I read as fast as?
> >
> >I imagine your pace varies with the material, but for an average book
> >how long does it take you to read a page, for example? (I read at a
> >slow-but-steady 1 page a minute or thereabouts - which is pretty darn
> >slow, I gather).
>
> Isn't that about average?
I honestly don't know. From those I've talked to, it seems slow. Of
course, the possibility exists that I have only polled braggarts.
> Depending on setting, print size, external factors and the
> complexity of the text, generally 100 pages an hour, maybe a little
> more*. I have no idea how I do it. I've been reading since about the
> time I first chose to speak** but the zippy reading didn't kick in
> until after I was ten (When I lived through a terrible book drought
> in Brazil, the worst I ever saw, but that probably had nothing to do
> with it).
You lived in Brazil as a child? I'd love to hear more about that
sometime.
> By setting, I mean where I am reading it. Alone in a quiet
> room = fast. TV playing something distracting = slower. Park = v.
> slow. On a plane = ha ha ha. On a bus = very very fast, except for
> the Bus Ride From Hell, where I was too busy fighting off hypothermia
> and hoping the driver wouldn't land us in the firepits of Centralia
> (read a Tenn and a McDonald, I think).
I had a similiar Taxi Ride from Hell, in China. But I cannot read in a
car without getting hopelessly sick.
> I remember my first SFBC MS was a Bova, THE PRECIPICE,
> about 600 - 700 pages (in MS, they get shorter in book form). Sat
> down, read it, got the report in in within 24 hours. What's even
> better is guessing what I will have to read in the future, reading
> it in otherwise wasted time***, doing the report up beforehand and
> then achieving a turn around time between request and response of
> less than a minute.
I'm not sure if I envy you. At least for books I like, I tend to delay
finishing, and enjoy the time spent in that other world. Of course, it
would be better if my reading was fast and my recall instant and
precise, so I could "go back" whenever I wanted...
James Nicoll
Small fishing village, very boring.
Except for the "falling into a large nest of angry ants."
And "how fumigating one's home can be a lot like reading that book
from IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS". And how it was I ended up teaching
our pet goat how to ram things.
>> By setting, I mean where I am reading it. Alone in a quiet
>> room = fast. TV playing something distracting = slower. Park = v.
>> slow. On a plane = ha ha ha. On a bus = very very fast, except for
>> the Bus Ride From Hell, where I was too busy fighting off hypothermia
>> and hoping the driver wouldn't land us in the firepits of Centralia
>> (read a Tenn and a McDonald, I think).
>
>I had a similiar Taxi Ride from Hell, in China. But I cannot read in a
>car without getting hopelessly sick.
I can read almost anywhere except on a treadmill. I can read
on a plane but the (totally irrational) terror tends to flavour the
experience.
>> I remember my first SFBC MS was a Bova, THE PRECIPICE,
>> about 600 - 700 pages (in MS, they get shorter in book form). Sat
>> down, read it, got the report in in within 24 hours. What's even
>> better is guessing what I will have to read in the future, reading
>> it in otherwise wasted time***, doing the report up beforehand and
>> then achieving a turn around time between request and response of
>> less than a minute.
>
>I'm not sure if I envy you. At least for books I like, I tend to delay
>finishing, and enjoy the time spent in that other world. Of course, it
>would be better if my reading was fast and my recall instant and
>precise, so I could "go back" whenever I wanted...
If I read every second of every day, I could not in the time
remaining to me reread my library, let alone all the books that will
be written. Always new frontiers.
John F. Eldredge
Nicoll) wrote:
>In article <1127070933.4...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>You lived in Brazil as a child? I'd love to hear more about that
>>sometime.
>
> Small fishing village, very boring.
>
> Except for the "falling into a large nest of angry ants."
>And "how fumigating one's home can be a lot like reading that book
>from IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS". And how it was I ended up teaching
>our pet goat how to ram things.
So, you started being a Murphy's-Law magnet at an early age?
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
James Nicoll
John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:24:02 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>In article <1127070933.4...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>>You lived in Brazil as a child? I'd love to hear more about that
>>>sometime.
>>
>> Small fishing village, very boring.
>>
>> Except for the "falling into a large nest of angry ants."
>>And "how fumigating one's home can be a lot like reading that book
>>from IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS". And how it was I ended up teaching
>>our pet goat how to ram things.
>
>So, you started being a Murphy's-Law magnet at an early age?
>
ram things. It seemed a great pity for it grow up ignorant of
this goatish skill.
JavaJosh
> In article <qslri153t8rs2q5i0...@4ax.com>,
> John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
> >On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:24:02 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
> >Nicoll) wrote:
> >
> >>In article <1127070933.4...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> >>>
> >>>You lived in Brazil as a child? I'd love to hear more about that
> >>>sometime.
> >>
> >> Small fishing village, very boring.
> >>
> >> Except for the "falling into a large nest of angry ants."
> >>And "how fumigating one's home can be a lot like reading that book
> >>from IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS". And how it was I ended up teaching
> >>our pet goat how to ram things.
> >
> >So, you started being a Murphy's-Law magnet at an early age?
> >
> Yes but in this case I set out to show the goat how to
> ram things. It seemed a great pity for it grow up ignorant of
> this goatish skill.
A goat ignorant of ramming is a sad sight indeed. Did it at least know
how to eat clothes?
James Nicoll
our cat and our dog.
Our second goat once ate the shirt off of someone who fell asleep
outdoors.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
And was there a million-kilowatt dam in the area?
Ted
Cyde Weys
James Nicoll wrote:
> I remember my first SFBC MS was a Bova, THE PRECIPICE,
> about 600 - 700 pages (in MS, they get shorter in book form). Sat
> down, read it, got the report in in within 24 hours. What's even
> better is guessing what I will have to read in the future, reading
> it in otherwise wasted time***, doing the report up beforehand and
> then achieving a turn around time between request and response of
> less than a minute.
Sorry, I'm kind of new here ... what exactly is your affiliation with
the Science Fiction Book Club? As far as I'm aware they're not a
publishing house, so why would they have readers looking over
manuscripts?
willre...@yahoo.com
I agree that feeling terror on an airplane that is sitting quietly on
the ground is totally irrational. However, when the damn thing starts
to fly, it would be very foolish not to be scared. Knowing you were on
the plane would be reassuring as I would assume something non-fatal but
injurious and embarrasing would be the only result of the flight. It
would very likely only happen to YOU, as well.
Will in New Haven
James Nicoll
Cyde Weys <cy...@umd.edu> wrote:
>
>James Nicoll wrote:
>
>> I remember my first SFBC MS was a Bova, THE PRECIPICE,
>> about 600 - 700 pages (in MS, they get shorter in book form). Sat
>> down, read it, got the report in in within 24 hours. What's even
>> better is guessing what I will have to read in the future, reading
>> it in otherwise wasted time***, doing the report up beforehand and
>> then achieving a turn around time between request and response of
>> less than a minute.
>
>Sorry, I'm kind of new here ... what exactly is your affiliation with
>the Science Fiction Book Club?
They send me stuff and I read it.
> As far as I'm aware they're not a
>publishing house, so why would they have readers looking over
>manuscripts?
I've never asked. Not my department.
Sea Wasp
They are, in a sense, a publishing house. I don't know how many
originals they publish -- not many -- but they have their own specific
print runs that are not those of the publisher, or at least they did.
I presume that's still true (Andrew?).
So the SFBC needs readers to help them select WHICH books they are
going to offer. They do NOT offer all books published; someone has to
sort through the offerings and make recommendations.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Andrew Wheeler
Others have covered the basics, but here are the reasons, as I see them
at this second:
there are only a few of us;
we can't possibly read everything published in the field ourselves;
we don't want to miss good and/or popular books;
we need someone to write plot summaries of the books we're going to buy
to help out the copywriter, to jog our memories, and for reference when
the sequel comes in.
Trade houses mostly don't have external readers these days, but their
slush piles are full of, well, *slush* -- you only have to read a few
pages of most of it to know it's no good at all. Our "slush" is made up
of books some editor not only thought was publishable, but for which
good cash money was paid. So we need to take it more seriously -- even
the stuff that looks wrong for us at first glance.
So we pay (really badly, I'm afraid; the rates haven't gone up in about
thirty years) for people to read books for us and let us know which ones
are the better examples of their type.
Nix
> In article <1127114226.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> Cyde Weys <cy...@umd.edu> wrote:
>>Sorry, I'm kind of new here ... what exactly is your affiliation with
>>the Science Fiction Book Club?
>
> They send me stuff and I read it.
This strikes me as being very close to SF Reader's Heaven.
--
`One cannot, after all, be expected to read every single word
of a book whose author one wishes to insult.' --- Richard Dawkins
David Bilek
There are too many SF novels published in any given year for SFBC to
offer them all. So they have to decide which already-published books
to offer to their members. I assume they look for a lot more than "I
didn't like it" from their readers, 'cause if they only published
books James really liked their catalogue would be about a page and a
half long. With pictures.
(Not that this is a bad thing.)
-David
James Nicoll
Hey!
I like lots of stuff, across a range of subgenres. In fact,
if I hadn't misplaced my copy (or possibly sent it back to Andrew)
I was going to write a very complimentary essay on a recent were-wolf
book, now that I have verified what I saw in it wasn't me projecting
what I wanted to see.
In fact, I think I will recommend it in passing: KITTY AND THE
MIDNIGHT HOUR is doing something with eldrich societies I don't think
I have seen in horror/urban fantasy. It's pretty clear (to me) that
traditional leech and hairball societies are still stuck using social
structures that the advanced nations gave up on ages ago. What we see
in the book is not two local disfunctional groups but two local examples
of larger societies that are very badly designed.
I _think_ Kitty is going to end up dragging both vampires and
werewolves into the Age of Reason. I expect that there will be ...
consequences because obviously this is not going to be seen as a good
thing by the people at the top of the current thugocracies.
This strikes me as interesting because more often what happens
is that the protagonist becomes completely coopted by the existing system.
They don't overthrow aristocracies, they become part of them.
James Nicoll
[I don't like to fly]
>
>I agree that feeling terror on an airplane that is sitting quietly on
>the ground is totally irrational. However, when the damn thing starts
>to fly, it would be very foolish not to be scared. Knowing you were on
>the plane would be reassuring as I would assume something non-fatal but
>injurious and embarrasing would be the only result of the flight. It
>would very likely only happen to YOU, as well.
>
Back in the 1990s, any time I had to fly somewhere, SURVIVAL
IN THE AIR, possibly the least accurately named TV show in the history
of television, would get re-run again, helping me to consider all the
things that could go wrong.
But that's not why I hate flying.
I did once fly in an older model, canvas-bodied air plane whose
engine kind of studdered while we were up in the air.
That too is not why I hate flying. WHen that happened, I liked
flyign and it was fun to see if we'd have to glide down.
The problem is a car wreck I had as a teen. For no rational reason,
I was very nervous about being in a car for years after that, even though
I got off with a few broken bones, some pulled muscles and a long walk
through a blizzard, nothign worth mentioning. Not having depth perception
made driving much worse, because I can't tell how far away things are that
we could run into. Eventually this went away. I kept getting into cars
until it did [1].
My mistake was boarding a plane to California and thinking
"Gee, if being in a car bothers me so much, it sure is weird that I
like to fly because the consquences would be worse and I have even
less control of the situation." Then the Terror set in. Bad brain!
Stop thinking!
Knowing how planes die is just the chocolate sprinkles on
the cupcake of irrational phobia. I don't let it prevent me from
flying. In fact, I once concealed it from someone I was travelling
with so that they would not be afraid on their first trip and I
volunteered to be the person who accompanied my mother (the Eight
White Knuckles of Death, the most nervous human on Earth) to
California and back.
James Nicoll
1: There's a funny story how someone, knowing how much I hated driving,
told me that the brakes had failed as we were approaching a rr crossing
with a train going through. You'd be surprised how fast I can unbuckle
a seat belt and go out the door of a car. They were, too (But they grabbed
me before I quite got out).
James Nicoll
willre...@yahoo.com <willre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>the ground is totally irrational. However, when the damn thing starts
>to fly, it would be very foolish not to be scared. Knowing you were on
>the plane would be reassuring as I would assume something non-fatal but
>injurious and embarrasing would be the only result of the flight. It
>would very likely only happen to YOU, as well.
BTW, almost all fatal accidents in flying occur at take-off
or landing [1]. In fact, most of them occur within the first couple
of minutes. If you count to 180 slowly and you are still not dead,
then the odds are very good that you are going to live, at least
until you land.
I have not figured out the calming thought for landing yet.
Wheels touching down is a good sign.
Avoid Denver (mircobursts). Also, avoid Logan, but only because
it is an ugly, ugly airport. The impression every pilot I ever had
going to Logan gave me, that the flight was going to end in wreckage
and flames in the bay, is apparently an illusion.
1: I will treat unscheduled plummeting out of the air as something other
than a landing.
Wayne Throop
: I agree that feeling terror on an airplane that is sitting quietly on
: the ground is totally irrational. However, when the damn thing starts
: to fly, it would be very foolish not to be scared.
Possibly just word usage disagreement on "rational" and/or "feel"
and/or maybe even "terror", but I disagree somewhat.
First, seems to me that terror is nature's way of motivating you to look
for alternatives to a predicted dangerous sequence of events[1]. If it's
"irrational" to feel fear in a plane on the ground (say, a commercial
passenger plane at an airport heading for the runway to take off), then
it's also irrational to feel fear falling from a tall building until you
get closer to the ground. But under this hypothesis, the fear "should"
come as alternatives become harder and harder to come by. So in the case
of falling off a building, when you are still standing on the ledge, and
in the case of air travel, while you can still make a dash for the door.
So second, *rationally*, you should stop feeling fear when you are fully
committed and there's nothing left to do. But, unfortunately, emotions
care nothing for rational thought, so you are still motivated to LOOK
for a way out, even if there really isn't one, or isn't much of one.
And yet on the other hand... after a bit of time passes, eventually
the primitive predictive mechanisms reluctantly conclude you're not
going to die right now after all, so the terror ebbs.
And finally, arguably it's irrational to feel fear at all.
Just interferes with accurate risk evaluation.
[1] This, of couse, makes thrill-seeking an oddity needing an explanation.
But suppose nature does both carrot and stick; you get an endorphin rush
after you *succeed* in avoiding danger. Then the obvious thing to try
is to spoof the mechanism. Just zen your way through the stick,
and you get the tasty carrot treat afterwards.
And no, I have no idea how one might go about testing this strange
hypothesis. Well... no *good* or *detailed* ideas.
James Nicoll
>: "willre...@yahoo.com" <willre...@yahoo.com>
>: I agree that feeling terror on an airplane that is sitting quietly on
>: the ground is totally irrational. However, when the damn thing starts
>: to fly, it would be very foolish not to be scared.
>
>Possibly just word usage disagreement on "rational" and/or "feel"
>and/or maybe even "terror", but I disagree somewhat.
>
>First, seems to me that terror is nature's way of motivating you to look
>for alternatives to a predicted dangerous sequence of events[1]. If it's
>"irrational" to feel fear in a plane on the ground (say, a commercial
>passenger plane at an airport heading for the runway to take off), then
>it's also irrational to feel fear falling from a tall building until you
>get closer to the ground.
Statistically, falling off a building* is a lot more risky than
flying on an airplane.
James Nicoll
* Weird. I know two people who died in parachute accidents: one who
died trying to save a student's life and another guy who used to jump
off bridges and such, almost all of which were high enough for a
parachute to work. Two seems like a high number.
Wayne Throop
: Statistically, falling off a building* is a lot more risky than
: flying on an airplane.
Agreed, but isn't that more of an issue of how terrified you should be,
not when you should be terrified? Of course, I chose an extreme example
to try to make that point, but anyhoo. Now, on the topic of *how*
terrified, then you get to the "accurate risk evaluation" thing, and
the rationality of terror on an airplane could be judged on that basis.
James Nicoll
>: Statistically, falling off a building* is a lot more risky than
>: flying on an airplane.
>
>Agreed, but isn't that more of an issue of how terrified you should be,
>not when you should be terrified? Of course, I chose an extreme example
>to try to make that point, but anyhoo. Now, on the topic of *how*
>terrified, then you get to the "accurate risk evaluation" thing, and
>the rationality of terror on an airplane could be judged on that basis.
The thing is, if you are going to be terrified of flying,
high risk activities like walking out where the bicyclists can get
you should leave people petrified but it doesn't.
Wayne Throop
::: flying on an airplane.
:: Agreed, but isn't that more of an issue of how terrified you should
:: be, not when you should be terrified?
: jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
: The thing is, if you are going to be terrified of flying, high risk
: activities like walking out where the bicyclists can get you should
: leave people petrified but it doesn't.
Agreed, but isn't *that* an issue of how severe the threat? AFAIK, there
aren't many fatalities from being struck by bicycle (although I am well
aware with whom I'm corresponding here). So, there's *when* leading up to
a possible bad oucome you should be terrified, there's the *probability*
of the bad outcome, and there's the *severity* of the outcome.
And yes, people's threat evaluation, and the trade-off between
these things, is not widely famed for being rational.
BUT (and this is the important part) being afraid a fair amount ahead
of time does not, to me, seem noticeably irrational, compared to whether
and how severely one should be frightened, as noted upthread.
Sea Wasp
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005, James Nicoll said:
>
>>In article <1127114226.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
>>Cyde Weys <cy...@umd.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>Sorry, I'm kind of new here ... what exactly is your affiliation with
>>>the Science Fiction Book Club?
>>
>> They send me stuff and I read it.
>
>
> This strikes me as being very close to SF Reader's Heaven.
>
They send him things like Baxter's _Titan_. And he has to read it.
James lives in Purgatory.
Andrew Wheeler
>
> Nix wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 Sep 2005, James Nicoll said:
> >
> >>In article <1127114226.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> >>Cyde Weys <cy...@umd.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Sorry, I'm kind of new here ... what exactly is your affiliation with
> >>>the Science Fiction Book Club?
> >>
> >> They send me stuff and I read it.
> >
> >
> > This strikes me as being very close to SF Reader's Heaven.
> >
>
> They send him things like Baxter's _Titan_. And he has to read it.
>
> James lives in Purgatory.
Now, now. _Titan_ was long before James came to read for me. (In fact, I
think Harper completely forgot to send _Titan_ to the club at all.)
I was, however, responsible for James reading Baxter's "Mayflower II,"
which he hated nearly as much.
(But I have bad luck with readers and Baxter, for some odd reason.
Another reader formed an irrational hatred of talking squids after the
first _Manifold_ book. And, try as hard as I could to keep from sending
her books with talking squid in them -- which wouldn't *seem* to be that
difficult -- it kept happening by accident.)
Nix
> I was, however, responsible for James reading Baxter's "Mayflower II,"
> which he hated nearly as much.
But thanks to Dozois's Year's Best anthologies, he'd probably have
ended up reading that even if he read hardly anything else that year.
(Alas.)
> (But I have bad luck with readers and Baxter, for some odd reason.
> Another reader formed an irrational hatred of talking squids after the
> first _Manifold_ book.
I'll admit I was hoping that the time-travelling Sheena would die dammit
die!!! rather than, as Baxter seemed to hope, cheering her on.
I think I had a bad flashback to those awful cuddly things in Forward's
leaden _Timemaster_.
> And, try as hard as I could to keep from sending
> her books with talking squid in them -- which wouldn't *seem* to be that
> difficult -- it kept happening by accident.)
And now there's an entire website that catalogues just such books, so
you can make sure it never happens again.
Tim McDaniel
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> In fact, I think I will recommend it in passing: KITTY AND THE
>MIDNIGHT HOUR is doing something with eldrich societies I don't think
>I have seen in horror/urban fantasy. It's pretty clear (to me) that
>traditional leech and hairball societies are still stuck using social
>structures that the advanced nations gave up on ages ago. What we see
>in the book is not two local disfunctional groups but two local
>examples of larger societies that are very badly designed.
>
> I _think_ Kitty is going to end up dragging both vampires and
>werewolves into the Age of Reason. I expect that there will be ...
>consequences because obviously this is not going to be seen as a good
>thing by the people at the top of the current thugocracies.
>
> This strikes me as interesting because more often what happens
>is that the protagonist becomes completely coopted by the existing
>system. They don't overthrow aristocracies, they become part of
>them.
I happened to meet her recently and got her card.
_Kitty and the Midnight Hour_
by Carrie Vaughn
Coming November 2005
from Warner Aspect
ISBN: 0-446-61641-9
http://www.twbookmark.com/sciencefiction/
[http://www.twbookmark.com/newreads/coming_soon.html#kitty]
http://www.carrievaughn.com
"Anita Blake done better" is not a bad motivation, I ween, and
Hamilton's notions of how werecritters would act in 1990's America
struck me as implausible. (They are almost all converts as teens or
adults -- so why do they seem to forget all that democracy and rights
stuff?)
<http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/CLVaughn/kitty.htm> has
"Doctor Kitty Solves All Your Love Problems", the first Kitty story.
--
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tm...@panix.com
Robert Hutchinson
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005, Andrew Wheeler spake:
> > I was, however, responsible for James reading Baxter's "Mayflower II,"
> > which he hated nearly as much.
>
> But thanks to Dozois's Year's Best anthologies, he'd probably have
> ended up reading that even if he read hardly anything else that year.
> (Alas.)
James is not paid for reading the Year's Best, AFAIK. I'm Mr. Forgiving
and Patient, and I skipped that pile after three pages.
--
Robert Hutchinson | The Twenty is just so evil. The very name gloats
| over our suffering and powerlessness. It's a
| boot stomping on a human face for twenty minutes.
| -- Shaenon K. Garrity
James Nicoll
Robert Hutchinson <ser...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Nix says...
>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005, Andrew Wheeler spake:
>> > I was, however, responsible for James reading Baxter's "Mayflower II,"
>> > which he hated nearly as much.
>>
>> But thanks to Dozois's Year's Best anthologies, he'd probably have
>> ended up reading that even if he read hardly anything else that year.
>> (Alas.)
>
>James is not paid for reading the Year's Best, AFAIK. I'm Mr. Forgiving
>and Patient, and I skipped that pile after three pages.
>
Anthologies are easy: if the current story stinks, well, the
next one might not be so bad.
Robert Hutchinson
> Robert Hutchinson wrote:
> >Nix says...
> >> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005, Andrew Wheeler spake:
> >> > I was, however, responsible for James reading Baxter's "Mayflower II,"
> >> > which he hated nearly as much.
> >>
> >> But thanks to Dozois's Year's Best anthologies, he'd probably have
> >> ended up reading that even if he read hardly anything else that year.
> >> (Alas.)
> >
> >James is not paid for reading the Year's Best, AFAIK. I'm Mr. Forgiving
> >and Patient, and I skipped that pile after three pages.
> >
> Yes, I am.
Ah. (Anything you're *not* paid to read?)
> Anthologies are easy: if the current story stinks, well, the
> next one might not be so bad.
... if you're reading Mayflower II as its own book, and it stinks, well,
the next thing you read might not be so bad. The logic, I do not grasp.
James Nicoll
Robert Hutchinson <ser...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>James Nicoll says...
>> Robert Hutchinson wrote:
>> >Nix says...
>> >> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005, Andrew Wheeler spake:
>> >> > I was, however, responsible for James reading Baxter's "Mayflower II,"
>> >> > which he hated nearly as much.
>> >>
>> >> But thanks to Dozois's Year's Best anthologies, he'd probably have
>> >> ended up reading that even if he read hardly anything else that year.
>> >> (Alas.)
>> >
>> >James is not paid for reading the Year's Best, AFAIK. I'm Mr. Forgiving
>> >and Patient, and I skipped that pile after three pages.
>> >
>> Yes, I am.
>
>Ah. (Anything you're *not* paid to read?)
>
>> Anthologies are easy: if the current story stinks, well, the
>> next one might not be so bad.
>
>... if you're reading Mayflower II as its own book, and it stinks, well,
>the next thing you read might not be so bad. The logic, I do not grasp.
>
At the very least, if I am reading a lousy Baxter or crappy
Kress (but I repeat myself) I know that the odds that the next story
will suck in the same way are very low. It might go Kress Baxter
Steele BadUrsula'sEvilTwin but it won't go Baxter Baxter Baxter.
Or at least it better not.
Martin Wisse
<acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>
>(But I have bad luck with readers and Baxter, for some odd reason.
>Another reader formed an irrational hatred of talking squids after the
>first _Manifold_ book. And, try as hard as I could to keep from sending
>her books with talking squid in them -- which wouldn't *seem* to be that
>difficult -- it kept happening by accident.)
Talking squid?
Tell Me More...
Martin "partner loves the squiddies" Wisse
--
Oh no! Now I have an image of Richard Nixon *and* Ronald Reagan
having sex in the Oval Office. <cue wocka-chicka-wow-wow music>
RN: "Ronnie, get down there and win one for my zipper."
RR: "Well, I see why they call you Tricky Dick." </music>
-Ed Dravecky III, rasseff
Mike Schilling
"Martin Wisse" <mwi...@cloggie.org> wrote in message
news:43344934....@news.individual.net...
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:30:19 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
> <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>(But I have bad luck with readers and Baxter, for some odd reason.
>>Another reader formed an irrational hatred of talking squids after the
>>first _Manifold_ book. And, try as hard as I could to keep from sending
>>her books with talking squid in them -- which wouldn't *seem* to be that
>>difficult -- it kept happening by accident.)
>
> Talking squid?
>
> Tell Me More...
Never read Vance's "The Gift of Gab"?
Andrew Wheeler
>
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:30:19 -0400, Andrew Wheeler
> <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >(But I have bad luck with readers and Baxter, for some odd reason.
> >Another reader formed an irrational hatred of talking squids after the
> >first _Manifold_ book. And, try as hard as I could to keep from sending
> >her books with talking squid in them -- which wouldn't *seem* to be that
> >difficult -- it kept happening by accident.)
>
> Talking squid?
>
> Tell Me More...
The other one I remember specifically was a Baen book, I think by L.
Neil Smith, that was an omnibus of two of his earlier novels, and the
aliens (extradimensional, I believe) were Cthulhoid. _The Forge of the
Elders_, if memory serves.
Robert Hutchinson
> Robert Hutchinson wrote:
> >> Anthologies are easy: if the current story stinks, well, the
> >> next one might not be so bad.
> >
> >... if you're reading Mayflower II as its own book, and it stinks, well,
> >the next thing you read might not be so bad. The logic, I do not grasp.
>
> The last thing out of Pandora's box was hope.
>
> At the very least, if I am reading a lousy Baxter or crappy
> Kress (but I repeat myself) I know that the odds that the next story
> will suck in the same way are very low. It might go Kress Baxter
> Steele BadUrsula'sEvilTwin but it won't go Baxter Baxter Baxter.
>
> Or at least it better not.
I'm afraid this exchange is going non sequitur non sequitur on me.
I'm reading an anthology. I skip Baxter for the next story.
I'm reading a Baxter chapbook. I throw it away and grab another book.
If you're saying that Andrew is actually sending you clumps of Baxter
books all at once, well, then, what time's the lynchin'?
James Nicoll
Robert Hutchinson <ser...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>James Nicoll says...
>> Robert Hutchinson wrote:
>> >James Nicoll says...
>> >> Anthologies are easy: if the current story stinks, well, the
>> >> next one might not be so bad.
>> >
>> >... if you're reading Mayflower II as its own book, and it stinks, well,
>> >the next thing you read might not be so bad. The logic, I do not grasp.
>>
>> The last thing out of Pandora's box was hope.
>>
>> At the very least, if I am reading a lousy Baxter or crappy
>> Kress (but I repeat myself) I know that the odds that the next story
>> will suck in the same way are very low. It might go Kress Baxter
>> Steele BadUrsula'sEvilTwin but it won't go Baxter Baxter Baxter.
>>
>> Or at least it better not.
>
>I'm afraid this exchange is going non sequitur non sequitur on me.
>
A Hypothetical Anthology's table of contents
BIG IDEA! edited by A VERY IMPORTANT EDITOR INDEED
Morose with Crap Science (Stephen Baxter
Morose with stupid Protagonists Whining (Nancy Kress)
Stab You in the Eye It's so Bad (Mike Resnick)
Pretty Good Little Story (Geoffrey Landis)
Puff Pastry in a Genre He Should Write More In (Paul McAuley)
My God, He's Still Alive (Jack Williamson)
I Don't Care That This is about BIG IDEA, I Want to talk about
the Novels of James Fennimore Cooper (Gregory Benford)
Midway through through the Baxter I can say "Only eleven
pages to go and while the Kress probably won't be good, it won't
be bad _in the same way_. A few groin punches as opposed to a
chostick to the eardrum."
Midway through the Resnick I know in a few pages I get a
Landis and the Landis will probably be pretty good, so suicide is
not called for. Also, I get to write a short review pointing out
that filing the serial numbers off TOMBSTONE and setting it on
the planet TooomS'Tone isn't nearly as original as Resnick thinks.
Midway through the McAuley, I will be a little sad because
Williamson just isn't going to be as good.
The Williamson is probably not as enjoyable as I'd like
but as long as I am reading it, I am not reading the Benford. Plus,
for a guy who started writing when Herbert Hoover was President,
it's not bad: Silent Generation authors aged a less gracefully.
The Benford... See, this is where it all falls apart.
What I might do, if it is a MS, is shuffle the "Almost
certainly crap stuff to the top and the almost certainly good
stuff to the bottom. That way I can reward myself with prospect
of good stuff on my way through the crap.
I do with novels, too. If there's a stack, the unpromising
stuff [1] goes at the top and the promising stuff goes at the
bottom. That way, I am eager to finish OVERWROUGHT ROMANTIC
MARY SUE FANTASY because I know that will let me read NICHE
PRODUCT THAT ONLY THE AUTHOR, JAMES AND SOME GUY AT JPL LIKES.
James Nicoll
1: Sometimes I am wrong. Reliable authors have off days and other
authors reinvent themselves or turnout to have been misleadingly
packaged.
Robert Hutchinson
> Robert Hutchinson wrote:
> >James Nicoll says...
> >> Robert Hutchinson wrote:
> >> >James Nicoll says...
> >> >> Anthologies are easy: if the current story stinks, well, the
> >> >> next one might not be so bad.
> >> >
> >> >... if you're reading Mayflower II as its own book, and it stinks, well,
> >> >the next thing you read might not be so bad. The logic, I do not grasp.
> >>
> >> The last thing out of Pandora's box was hope.
> >>
> >> At the very least, if I am reading a lousy Baxter or crappy
> >> Kress (but I repeat myself) I know that the odds that the next story
> >> will suck in the same way are very low. It might go Kress Baxter
> >> Steele BadUrsula'sEvilTwin but it won't go Baxter Baxter Baxter.
> >>
> >> Or at least it better not.
> >
> >I'm afraid this exchange is going non sequitur non sequitur on me.
>
> OK. I will try to make this more simple.
Ah ... I think I might have been the one not being clear, now. At no
poing have I not understood the property of anthologies you are
expounding upon.
_Mayflower II_ was originally released as a chapbook, yes? The only story
in the book, if I understand correctly. It was later collected in the
most recent _Year's Best_ (sic).
Why is reading X number of crap words in an anthology, but being able to
look forward to it ending and something better and/or different
beginning, different from reading the same X number of crap words in a
chapbook, but being able to look forward to it ending and the next book
you pick up being better and/or different?
James Nicoll
Physical proximity.
I don't know why it makes a difference but it does.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Nicoll) wrote:
> The Williamson is probably not as enjoyable as I'd like
>but as long as I am reading it, I am not reading the Benford. Plus,
>for a guy who started writing when Herbert Hoover was President...
Calvin Coolidge, actually.
--
Read the new Ethshar novel online! http://www.ethshar.com/thesprigganexperiment0.html
James Nicoll
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> What I might do, if it is a MS, is shuffle the "Almost
>certainly crap stuff to the top and the almost certainly good
>stuff to the bottom. That way I can reward myself with prospect
>of good stuff on my way through the crap.
Except that this has huge flaw and so I will not do it
in the future. And it seemed like such a good idea, too.
The flaw is that the editor not only picks stories, they
pick the order that they are seen in. A useful review needs to look
at that as well as the individual stories.
James Nicoll
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:19:52 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> The Williamson is probably not as enjoyable as I'd like
>>but as long as I am reading it, I am not reading the Benford. Plus,
>>for a guy who started writing when Herbert Hoover was President...
>
>Calvin Coolidge, actually.
Right, Hoover was elected in 1928 but only got to start
destroying the US economy, ecology and political system in March
of 1929*.
James Nicoll
* Kidding! I'm sure the Dust Bowl was a coincidence.
Peter D. Tillman
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> A Hypothetical Anthology's table of contents
>
> BIG IDEA! edited by A VERY IMPORTANT EDITOR INDEED
>
> Morose with Crap Science (Stephen Baxter
> Morose with stupid Protagonists Whining (Nancy Kress)
> Stab You in the Eye It's so Bad (Mike Resnick)
> Pretty Good Little Story (Geoffrey Landis)
> Puff Pastry in a Genre He Should Write More In (Paul McAuley)
> My God, He's Still Alive (Jack Williamson)
> I Don't Care That This is about BIG IDEA, I Want to talk about
> the Novels of James Fennimore Cooper (Gregory Benford)
Another Instant Nicolls Classic!
or, Why I Faithfully Read Every Nicolls Post, Even in Deadly Threads....
Thanks, James. RASFW Silver Star, with bronze cluster. To add to your
many Purple Hearts.
> What I might do, if it is a MS, is shuffle the "Almost
> certainly crap stuff to the top and the almost certainly good
> stuff to the bottom. That way I can reward myself with prospect
> of good stuff on my way through the crap.
>
> I do with novels, too. If there's a stack, the unpromising
> stuff [1] goes at the top and the promising stuff goes at the
> bottom. That way, I am eager to finish OVERWROUGHT ROMANTIC
> MARY SUE FANTASY because I know that will let me read NICHE
> PRODUCT THAT ONLY THE AUTHOR, JAMES AND SOME GUY AT JPL LIKES.
Huh. How much did you say SFBC is paying you for this?
Cheers -- Pete Tillman
--
"Eternity is very long, especially near the end." -- Woody Allen
James Nicoll
Peter D. Tillman <Til...@toast.net_DIESPAMMERSDIE> wrote:
>In article <dh3na8$a1u$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> A Hypothetical Anthology's table of contents
>>
>> BIG IDEA! edited by A VERY IMPORTANT EDITOR INDEED
>>
>> Morose with Crap Science (Stephen Baxter
>> Morose with stupid Protagonists Whining (Nancy Kress)
>> Stab You in the Eye It's so Bad (Mike Resnick)
>> Pretty Good Little Story (Geoffrey Landis)
>> Puff Pastry in a Genre He Should Write More In (Paul McAuley)
>> My God, He's Still Alive (Jack Williamson)
>> I Don't Care That This is about BIG IDEA, I Want to talk about
>> the Novels of James Fennimore Cooper (Gregory Benford)
>
>Another Instant Nicolls Classic!
>or, Why I Faithfully Read Every Nicolls Post, Even in Deadly Threads....
>
>Thanks, James. RASFW Silver Star, with bronze cluster. To add to your
>many Purple Hearts.
Thank you.
>
>> What I might do, if it is a MS, is shuffle the "Almost
>> certainly crap stuff to the top and the almost certainly good
>> stuff to the bottom. That way I can reward myself with prospect
>> of good stuff on my way through the crap.
>>
>> I do with novels, too. If there's a stack, the unpromising
>> stuff [1] goes at the top and the promising stuff goes at the
>> bottom. That way, I am eager to finish OVERWROUGHT ROMANTIC
>> MARY SUE FANTASY because I know that will let me read NICHE
>> PRODUCT THAT ONLY THE AUTHOR, JAMES AND SOME GUY AT JPL LIKES.
>
>Huh. How much did you say SFBC is paying you for this?
I didn't and won't.
Peter D. Tillman
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> >
> >Huh. How much did you say SFBC is paying you for this?
>
> I didn't and won't.
That was a rhetorical question. Particularly since AW already said,
between $Not Much and $Embarrassingly Little.
But think of all those free Kress and Baxter books!
Happy reading--
Pete Tillman
Michael Alan Chary
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> The Williamson is probably not as enjoyable as I'd like
>>but as long as I am reading it, I am not reading the Benford. Plus,
>>for a guy who started writing when Herbert Hoover was President...
>
>Calvin Coolidge, actually.
>
Probably Taft or Wilson, actually. Now, as to when people started paying
him...
--
An experiment in publishing:
http://www.ethshar.com/thesprigganexperiment0.html
The All-New, All-Different Howling Curmudgeons!
http://www.whiterose.org/howlingcurmudgeons
Michael Alan Chary
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <Tillman-F3CFBC...@corp-radius.supernews.com>,
>Peter D. Tillman <Til...@toast.net_DIESPAMMERSDIE> wrote:
>>In article <dh3na8$a1u$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>
>>> A Hypothetical Anthology's table of contents
>>>
>>> BIG IDEA! edited by A VERY IMPORTANT EDITOR INDEED
>>>
>>> Morose with Crap Science (Stephen Baxter
>>> Morose with stupid Protagonists Whining (Nancy Kress)
>>> Stab You in the Eye It's so Bad (Mike Resnick)
>>> Pretty Good Little Story (Geoffrey Landis)
>>> Puff Pastry in a Genre He Should Write More In (Paul McAuley)
>>> My God, He's Still Alive (Jack Williamson)
>>> I Don't Care That This is about BIG IDEA, I Want to talk about
>>> the Novels of James Fennimore Cooper (Gregory Benford)
>>
>>Another Instant Nicolls Classic!
>>or, Why I Faithfully Read Every Nicolls Post, Even in Deadly Threads....
>>
>>Thanks, James. RASFW Silver Star, with bronze cluster. To add to your
>>many Purple Hearts.
>
> Thank you.
>
Yeah, why don't you write like this on the comics newsgroups? I feel
cheated.
Konrad Gaertner
>
> I am eager to finish OVERWROUGHT ROMANTIC
> MARY SUE FANTASY because I know that will let me read NICHE
> PRODUCT THAT ONLY THE AUTHOR, JAMES AND SOME GUY AT JPL LIKES.
Since you're probably not allowed to name these yet, can I ask for
eventual short reviews of both of these?
--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - email: gae...@aol.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/kgbooklog/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll
Gene Ward Smith
James Nicoll wrote:
> The last thing out of Pandora's box was hope.
Here's a story idea--the fact that it's in both Genesis and Greek
mythology and maybe in a bunch of other stuff you either dig up or
invent shows there was something behind it all, something still lodged
in the Jungian basement of humanities mind. What is left to the writer.
James Nicoll
Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>James Nicoll wrote:
>>
>> I am eager to finish OVERWROUGHT ROMANTIC
>> MARY SUE FANTASY because I know that will let me read NICHE
>> PRODUCT THAT ONLY THE AUTHOR, JAMES AND SOME GUY AT JPL LIKES.
>
>Since you're probably not allowed to name these yet, can I ask for
>eventual short reviews of both of these?
Both are more catagories than specific examples but whatever
the heck that series with Rhapsody in is like being drowned in weepy
saccharine.
The other one: non-FTL, interplantary adventure, medium near
future (2050-2200), balkanized but not awful Earth, plausible
technology (no more implausible than microelectronics from the
point of view of Michael Farraday), up to date science plus
reasonable guesses, non-military, no morons, no dystopias,
standard of living and quality of life both better than
ours.
Oh, yes: any technology that works on Mars or in
space should also work on Earth, subject to the laws of
physics (That is, no ion drives in atmosphere sort of
thing is ok; 'we can dig a thousand one kilometer deep bore
holes on Mars but are reduced to flappy hand helplessness
on Earth due to the Coloured People's TechnoSuppressive
Field effect).
Note that nobody on board the RIVER OF STARS should
have been allowed near a butter knife*. Note that [Colour]
MARS suffers from Coloured People's TechnoSuppressive Field
effect. Note that Bova's Grand Tour is completely depressing
and MARKET FORCES makes me long for the balanced and reasonable
essays of Michael Moore or Ross Perot.
If there's one book that meets my criteria a year, I
will be gobsmacked. I know, I know, it seems pretty specific
but a lot of Heinlein's YA come close (aside from the One
Worldism he was prone to). Even FRIDAY comes close, except
for the FTL. A lot of older SF comes close.
Paul McAuley has some snippets here and there that
might do but no novel set there, yet.
James Nicoll
* Says the man who cut himself making a sandwich, although not on
the knife. It was the peanut butter.
Sea Wasp
James Nicoll
>
> * Says the man who cut himself making a sandwich, although not on
> the knife. It was the peanut butter.
>
Okay, you knew this was coming: Explain?
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
James Nicoll
Michael Alan Chary <mch...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <dh46r4$bv2$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>In article <Tillman-F3CFBC...@corp-radius.supernews.com>,
>>Peter D. Tillman <Til...@toast.net_DIESPAMMERSDIE> wrote:
>>>In article <dh3na8$a1u$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>>> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>>
>>>> A Hypothetical Anthology's table of contents
>>>>
>>>> BIG IDEA! edited by A VERY IMPORTANT EDITOR INDEED
>>>>
>>>> Morose with Crap Science (Stephen Baxter
>>>> Morose with stupid Protagonists Whining (Nancy Kress)
>>>> Stab You in the Eye It's so Bad (Mike Resnick)
>>>> Pretty Good Little Story (Geoffrey Landis)
>>>> Puff Pastry in a Genre He Should Write More In (Paul McAuley)
>>>> My God, He's Still Alive (Jack Williamson)
>>>> I Don't Care That This is about BIG IDEA, I Want to talk about
>>>> the Novels of James Fennimore Cooper (Gregory Benford)
>>>
>>>Another Instant Nicolls Classic!
>>>or, Why I Faithfully Read Every Nicolls Post, Even in Deadly Threads....
>>>
>>>Thanks, James. RASFW Silver Star, with bronze cluster. To add to your
>>>many Purple Hearts.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>
>Yeah, why don't you write like this on the comics newsgroups? I feel
>cheated.
>
The limiting factor won't be reading but writing. Your
standard monthly serial can't take more than five minutes to read.
James Nicoll
Sea Wasp <seawasp...@obvioussgeinc.com> wrote:
>James Nicoll wrote:
> James Nicoll
>>
>> * Says the man who cut himself making a sandwich, although not on
>> the knife. It was the peanut butter.
>>
>
> Okay, you knew this was coming: Explain?
New jar of peanut butter. The jar had foil sealing it. I
managed somehow to slice the tip of my finger (although one
without full feeling, so it doesn't matter) on the edge of the
foil.
I actually done much worse with a shower curtain: deep
paper cut style wound across my left palm from the edge of the
curtain. Luckily, the one place you can bleed profusely without
messing things up is the bath.
Mike Schilling
"James Nicoll" <jdni...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dh548d$hdq$1...@reader1.panix.com...
>
> I actually done much worse with a shower curtain: deep
> paper cut style wound across my left palm from the edge of the
> curtain. Luckily, the one place you can bleed profusely without
> messing things up is the bath.
Is anyone else picturing this as a locked room mystery?
"You made the bottom of the shower slick with soap, realizing that when he
slipped, he would grab at the shower curtain, cutting himself and bleeding
to death. You counted on the fact that the water from the shower head would
wash away the evidence. What you didn't realize is that Sir James used a
unique brand of soap, made from the rendering of Tibetan yaks, whose
chemical properties are unmistakable. Now, I took the liberty of retrieving
the leftovers from your manicure earlier today. Theeir contents were very
informative."
Par
> not called for. Also, I get to write a short review pointing out
> that filing the serial numbers off TOMBSTONE and setting it on
> the planet TooomS'Tone isn't nearly as original as Resnick thinks.
Come on, nobody ever recognized Kenya in <mumble>.
/Par
--
Par use...@hunter-gatherer.org
"I'm gonna go home next weekend and end up envisioning all the local
rednecks in the lastest goth fasions... black overalls, black baseball
caps with glow-in-the-dark John Deere logos, etc." -- Kendall Libby
Duke of URL
??? What edition of Genesis do you have? The Greek myth of Pandora certainly
isn't in mine!
--
Once a suicide bomber, always a suicide bomber
Duke of URL
> In article <4336119...@obvioussgeinc.com>,
> Sea Wasp <seawasp...@obvioussgeinc.com> wrote:
>> James Nicoll wrote:
>> James Nicoll
>>>
>>> * Says the man who cut himself making a sandwich, although not on
>>> the knife. It was the peanut butter.
>>
>> Okay, you knew this was coming: Explain?
>
> New jar of peanut butter. The jar had foil sealing it. I
> managed somehow to slice the tip of my finger (although one
> without full feeling, so it doesn't matter) on the edge of the
> foil.
>
> I actually done much worse with a shower curtain: deep
> paper cut style wound across my left palm from the edge of the
> curtain. Luckily, the one place you can bleed profusely without
> messing things up is the bath.
I am beginning to believe in the Nicholls Curse...
Peter D. Tillman
Par <use...@hunter-gatherer.org> wrote:
> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com>:
> > not called for. Also, I get to write a short review pointing out
> > that filing the serial numbers off TOMBSTONE and setting it on
> > the planet TooomS'Tone isn't nearly as original as Resnick thinks.
>
> Come on, nobody ever recognized Kenya in <mumble>.
>
KIRINYAGA. Which, ims, is Kikuyu for 'homeland' or some such, and is,
indeed , where the Brits got 'Kenya' [1]
And boy, did I get sick of that pompous jackass of a witch-doctor. Makes
Heinlein's 'wise old windbag' characters look subtle.
Cheers -- Pete Tillman
[1] When my parents (and two lucky youngest sisters) lived there in the
late 60's, they kept us supplied with an endless series of very
entertaining clippings from the East African Standard: witchcraft
accusations, bride-price disputes, YA hapless villager loses his/her
left buttock to a lurking hippo....
Anyway, Resnick saved these too, and the amusing parts of his
Africa-in-space! tales are often from such....
Brad Sims
>
> * Says the man who cut himself making a sandwich, although not on
> the knife. It was the peanut butter.
Never done that, but I did once stab my gum with a potato chip...
Bled and everything <g>.
--
School never taught ME anything at all, except that there are even
more morons out there than I would have dreamed, and many of them like
to beat up people smaller than they are. -- SeaWasp in RASFW
Michael Alan Chary
>>>Peter D. Tillman <Til...@toast.net_DIESPAMMERSDIE> wrote:
>>>>Another Instant Nicolls Classic!
>>>>or, Why I Faithfully Read Every Nicolls Post, Even in Deadly Threads....
>>>>
>>>>Thanks, James. RASFW Silver Star, with bronze cluster. To add to your
>>>>many Purple Hearts.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, why don't you write like this on the comics newsgroups? I feel
>>cheated.
>>
> Nobody pays me to read every comic out there.
>
> The limiting factor won't be reading but writing. Your
>standard monthly serial can't take more than five minutes to read.
I'm talking about the qusality, not the subject matter :)
James Nicoll
Michael Alan Chary <mch...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <dh5409$m7s$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>Michael Alan Chary <mch...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>Peter D. Tillman <Til...@toast.net_DIESPAMMERSDIE> wrote:
>>>>>Another Instant Nicolls Classic!
>>>>>or, Why I Faithfully Read Every Nicolls Post, Even in Deadly Threads....
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks, James. RASFW Silver Star, with bronze cluster. To add to your
>>>>>many Purple Hearts.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yeah, why don't you write like this on the comics newsgroups? I feel
>>>cheated.
>>>
>> Nobody pays me to read every comic out there.
>>
>> The limiting factor won't be reading but writing. Your
>>standard monthly serial can't take more than five minutes to read.
>
>I'm talking about the qusality, not the subject matter :)
Nobody induces me to read a wide variety in comics*. If I had
to read "IN THIS ISSUE, TWO MORE GIFFEN ERA CHARACTERS END UP IN
BODY BAGS" or god forbid, anything by Dennis Malonee, trust me,
there would be words.
I _could_ rant about things like the purile radiation
phobia in GLOBAL FREQUENCY but what would be the point, given the
context? Wow, Warren Ellis wrote some crap. What a revelation. Next,
I will complain that John Bryne's range of faces is a bit limited or
that there are enough Women in Refrigerators at DC to keep a thousand
Uruguan soccer players fed. At least he isn't ripping off Hunter S.
Thompson (Unless Transmetropolitan is ripping off _Uncle Duke_).
And his fans don't insist on cornering to tell me about his comics**
and I appreciate that. Ever sit through an impromptu lecture on
why STARSHIP TROOPERS is the WORD of GOD? By some guy who has the camo
but very oddly not the actual military service? Who has no sense of
humour at all when you hand him the phone and the phone book, flipped
to the Armed Forces Recruiting number?
They ever reintroduce the press gang, I am so there, with
a bottle of chloroform, a rag and a list of addresses.
James Nicoll
* And I've been able to avoid half-bad stuff, comic book analogs of
Joss Whedon TV shows: good enough that I will watch them but with
flaws like heated chisels driven into my eyes.
Calibration: I put BSG at one heated chisel whereas FIREFLY is
more like a really bad catheter accident, with an infection. I am filled
with certainty that the setups in BSG will always be better than the
payoffs. Also, that water is not rare.
** Thus saving me from having to ask them if they are aware that
reading his comics is much like I imagine bobbing for apples in a
used bedpan must be like and if this is why they read them.
Mike Schilling
"Peter D. Tillman" <Til...@toast.net_DIESPAMMERSDIE> wrote in message
news:Tillman-EBC569...@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> In article <slrndjcb4i...@hunter-gatherer.org>,
> Par <use...@hunter-gatherer.org> wrote:
>
>> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com>:
>> > not called for. Also, I get to write a short review pointing out
>> > that filing the serial numbers off TOMBSTONE and setting it on
>> > the planet TooomS'Tone isn't nearly as original as Resnick thinks.
>>
>> Come on, nobody ever recognized Kenya in <mumble>.
>>
>
> KIRINYAGA. Which, ims, is Kikuyu for 'homeland' or some such, and is,
> indeed , where the Brits got 'Kenya' [1]
And the narrator often explcitly mentions Kenya, usually as a place that's
too Europeanized for his taste.
Jim Lovejoy
news:dh7cnh$sfr$1...@reader1.panix.com:
<snip<
> Ever sit through an impromptu lecture on
> why STARSHIP TROOPERS is the WORD of GOD? By some guy who has the camo
> but very oddly not the actual military service? Who has no sense of
> humour at all when you hand him the phone and the phone book, flipped
> to the Armed Forces Recruiting number?
>
> They ever reintroduce the press gang, I am so there, with
> a bottle of chloroform, a rag and a list of addresses.
>
> James Nicoll
>
I claim sig
James Nicoll
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>I claim sig
Then I claim "...there are enough Women in Refrigerators at DC to keep
a thousand Uruguayan soccer players fed."
Par
> What was PARADISE based on? Kenya as well, wasn't it?
And that book with the dragon hunters in the desert? Super-expensive
hides, hunting done by looners out in the bush.
/Par
--
Par use...@hunter-gatherer.org
"Those who restrain Desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be
restrained" -- William Blake
Chris Kuan
> Then I claim "...there are enough Women in Refrigerators at DC to keep
> a thousand Uruguayan soccer players fed."
I thought it was Rugby (change it to Football just to be ambiguous enough
:-))
--
Chris
Concatenate for email: mrgazpacho @ hotmail . com
Michael Alan Chary
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>Michael Alan Chary <mch...@panix.com> wrote:
>>I'm talking about the qusality, not the subject matter :)
>
> Nobody induces me to read a wide variety in comics*. If I had
>to read "IN THIS ISSUE, TWO MORE GIFFEN ERA CHARACTERS END UP IN
>BODY BAGS" or god forbid, anything by Dennis Malonee, trust me,
>there would be words.
>
Butyou don't post of the same species of quality even when you do post. If
you did, we wouldn't have been labored with Elayne's reviews for 8 years.
Where were you when I was trying to explain what a review was? Why didn't
you write a reviewing guide? People might have taken you seriously :)
Michael Alan Chary
>> why STARSHIP TROOPERS is the WORD of GOD? By some guy who has the camo
>> but very oddly not the actual military service? Who has no sense of
>> humour at all when you hand him the phone and the phone book, flipped
>> to the Armed Forces Recruiting number?
>>
>> They ever reintroduce the press gang, I am so there, with
>> a bottle of chloroform, a rag and a list of addresses.
>
I just want to be there to watch as the chloroform bottle spontaneously
explodes and James falls into a vat of sulfuric acid.
Michael Alan Chary
> James Nicoll
>>
>> * Says the man who cut himself making a sandwich, although not on
>> the knife. It was the peanut butter.
>>
>
> Okay, you knew this was coming: Explain?
I cut myself on pasta sauce once. The jar was on tight so I gripped it as
tight as a could and twisted. Unfortunately, that was before I knew I had
sort sort of bizarre, retro-gorilla genetic strength, so I sheered the
glass, but didn't notice, and cut my lip tasting it later.
(I used to make money in college. My friend was the president of the
weight lifting club, and we'd go down to the weight room and bet his
friends I could lift more than them.)
John F. Eldredge
<lo...@sig.because.this.is.invalid> wrote:
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote on Mon 26 Sep 2005 01:36:37p
>
>> Then I claim "...there are enough Women in Refrigerators at DC to keep
>> a thousand Uruguayan soccer players fed."
>
>I thought it was Rugby (change it to Football just to be ambiguous enough
>:-))
The allusion is to a Uruguayan soccer team whose plane crashed in the
Andes, and who had to resort to eating the dead in order to survive.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Robert Hutchinson
> I just want to be there to watch as the chloroform bottle spontaneously
> explodes and James falls into a vat of sulfuric acid.
I think a "don't" went missing somewhere.
That, or we should be encouraging you not to give up on life ...
--
Robert Hutchinson | The Twenty is just so evil. The very name gloats
| over our suffering and powerlessness. It's a
| boot stomping on a human face for twenty minutes.
| -- Shaenon K. Garrity