Conspiracy theories in Sff/F

[Jacey Bedford]

Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
three books maximum before the con.

So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?

The conspiracy theory doesn't have to be false.

The first one that comes to mind is Jaine Fenn's Hidden Empire series,
but that's possibly because I've only just finished reading Guardians of
Paradise.

Thanks

Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford

[Bill Snyder]

"Stephen Bury" (Neal Stephenson & his uncle), _Interface_.

--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 10/29/12 12:26 AM, Jacey Bedford wrote:
> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
> subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
> on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
> three books maximum before the con.
>
> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?

The ILLUMINATUS! Trilogy.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[Andrew Plotkin]

Here, Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
> subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
> on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
> three books maximum before the con.
>
> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?

_Illuminatus_ has already been mentioned, so...

"The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag".

_The Thief_, Megan Whalen Turner.

_How Much For Just the Planet?_, John M. Ford.

_Archer's Goon_, Diana Wynne Jones.

Sanderson's _Mistborn_ has a rather nice long-running-hidden-secret
plot. Big honking book, though, I wouldn't dive into it when
time-constrained.

And then, I guess, Philip K. Dick. I'm not much of a Dick reader, so I
won't try to name specific titles, but I understand that "just pick
one" is a valid strategy.

--Z

--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*

[David Johnston]

The later Harrington books have the Mesan conspiracy, with a transhumanist conspiracy operating behind the scenes to encourage warfare among polities that might otherwise clamp down on their involvement in genetically engineering slaves to finance their self-improvement projects.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <wGalB82m...@parkhead.demon.co.uk>,

I can't think of any conspiratorial SF offhand, so I will merely
quote Fritz Leiber's line from _The Big Time: "If you assume a
big enough conspiracy, you can explain anything, including the
universe itself."

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <wGalB82m...@parkhead.demon.co.uk>, Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> writes:

>Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
>subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
>on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
>three books maximum before the con.

These all involve "secret masters ruling the world" conspiracies:
_Interface_, by "Stephen Bury"
_In the Country of the Blind_, by Michael F. Flynn
Asimov's Foundation series
The Illuminatus! series by Shea and Wilson
Smith's Lensmen series

>So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?

I'm not sure if any of these are essential. They're simply what come to
my mind when somebody wants conspiracy theories.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <wGalB82m...@parkhead.demon.co.uk>,

The Illuminatus Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson
comes immediately to mind. Lots of conspiracies there!

Also, Asimov's "The Dead Past".

Possibly Laumer's "Placement Test".
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Robert Carnegie]

On Monday, October 29, 2012 4:26:14 AM UTC, Jacey Bedford wrote:
> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy
> (or related subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them.
> I've been asked to be on a con panel on the subject and I've
> maybe got time to read two or three books maximum before the con.
> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
> The conspiracy theory doesn't have to be false.

If you want something close to real-world conspiracy theories,
then there isn't a lot to say. Either the conspiracy is real
and the aliens / computers / sorcerors / Jews are behind it
(I don't have any /particular/ example in mind for the last,
but a golem running for President would probably do - hey,
Isaac Asimov wrote that, only he said "robot"), or the conspiracy
theory is the cover up for what the aliens or computers or whatever
are /really/ doing.

_The Matrix_ is about the secret of how the world /really/ works.

Harry Potter has a whole lot about conspiracies. The wizards and
witches conspire to live amongst us without us knowing that they exist,
and Lord Voldemort and his evil servants conspire to take over the
world of wizards and non-wizards alike.

_Manalone_ by Colin Kapp you probably can't get hold of.
The government is erasing historical records and artifacts, but
in those that do survive, the world looks funny: what are they
covering up?

Does _Nineteen eighty-four_ count as conspiracy against the public?
Just mentioning the control of historical information brought it
to mind.

The X Files has all the conspiracies...

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <MCnyA...@kithrup.com>,

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <wGalB82m...@parkhead.demon.co.uk>,
>Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
>>subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
>>on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
>>three books maximum before the con.
>>
>>So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>>
>>The conspiracy theory doesn't have to be false.
>>
>>The first one that comes to mind is Jaine Fenn's Hidden Empire series,
>>but that's possibly because I've only just finished reading Guardians of
>>Paradise.
>
>I can't think of any conspiratorial SF offhand, so I will merely
>quote Fritz Leiber's line from _The Big Time: "If you assume a
>big enough conspiracy, you can explain anything, including the
>universe itself."
>

Puts me a little in the mind of historian and part-time SF writer
Robert Conquest's Third Law:


"The simplest way to explain the behavior of any bureaucratic
organization is to assume that it is controlled by a cabal of its
enemies."

[Michael Stemper]

In article <k6mbf8$df0$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> writes:
>Here, Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
>> subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
>> on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
>> three books maximum before the con.
>>
>> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>
>_Illuminatus_ has already been mentioned, so...

I didn't let that stop me.

>And then, I guess, Philip K. Dick. I'm not much of a Dick reader, so I
>won't try to name specific titles, but I understand that "just pick
>one" is a valid strategy.

Pretty much, yeah.

I'm also thinking that there's something by Poul Anderson that fits into
this category. I'm willing to bet that, if somebody posts the name, I'll
be slapping my forehead. Again.


After I posted my suggestions, and then saw the great deal of overlap
mine had with others', a soupcon of doubt entered my mind. Every title
suggested that I was familiar with was really about a conspiracy rather
than a conspiracy theory. The Secret Masters had pretty much been covering
up their existence successfully. There weren't theories. Some of the
stories portrayed events that led to the unmasking of the particular
conspiracy, but no general advance speculation about the existence of same.

Is this what Jacey wanted, or did she truly want stories about the
*theories* themselves?

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <k6mfus$4l2$2...@dont-email.me>,

Michael Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>In article <k6mbf8$df0$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Andrew Plotkin
><erky...@eblong.com> writes:
>>Here, Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
>>> subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
>>> on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
>>> three books maximum before the con.
>>>
>>> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>>
>>_Illuminatus_ has already been mentioned, so...
>
>I didn't let that stop me.
>
>>And then, I guess, Philip K. Dick. I'm not much of a Dick reader, so I
>>won't try to name specific titles, but I understand that "just pick
>>one" is a valid strategy.
>
>Pretty much, yeah.
>
>I'm also thinking that there's something by Poul Anderson that fits into
>this category. I'm willing to bet that, if somebody posts the name, I'll
>be slapping my forehead. Again.
>

Well, IIRC, in the end Falkyn went behind Van Rijn's back to do something
pretty important (can't recall exactly what), and VR had to make the
best of a fait-accompli but pretty well concluded that that was it for
the League as an advancing polity.

>
>After I posted my suggestions, and then saw the great deal of overlap
>mine had with others', a soupcon of doubt entered my mind. Every title
>suggested that I was familiar with was really about a conspiracy rather
>than a conspiracy theory. The Secret Masters had pretty much been covering
>up their existence successfully. There weren't theories. Some of the
>stories portrayed events that led to the unmasking of the particular
>conspiracy, but no general advance speculation about the existence of same.
>
>Is this what Jacey wanted, or did she truly want stories about the
>*theories* themselves?
>

She explicitly said it was OK if the conspiracy was real..

Here's an unreal one that just came to me:

_The Sleeping Planet_ Burkett

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 10/29/12 1:55 PM, Michael Stemper wrote:
> In article <k6mbf8$df0$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> writes:
>> Here, Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
>>> subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
>>> on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
>>> three books maximum before the con.
>>>
>>> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>>
>> _Illuminatus_ has already been mentioned, so...
>
> I didn't let that stop me.
>
>> And then, I guess, Philip K. Dick. I'm not much of a Dick reader, so I
>> won't try to name specific titles, but I understand that "just pick
>> one" is a valid strategy.
>
> Pretty much, yeah.
>
> I'm also thinking that there's something by Poul Anderson that fits into
> this category. I'm willing to bet that, if somebody posts the name, I'll
> be slapping my forehead. Again.
>

"After Doomsday" would seem to fit.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

And I think "The Day of Their Return" features a significant conspiracy
as well.

[William F. Adams]

There're a couple of conspiracies in Steven Brust's Dragaera novels.

Jack Vance's Lyonesse Trilogy if full of different groups conspiring
to further their agendas.

William

[Michael Stemper]

In article <af7v1o...@mid.individual.net>, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) writes:
>In article <k6mfus$4l2$2...@dont-email.me>, Michael Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>In article <k6mbf8$df0$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> writes:
>>>Here, Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>>>> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?

>>>And then, I guess, Philip K. Dick. I'm not much of a Dick reader, so I
>>>won't try to name specific titles, but I understand that "just pick
>>>one" is a valid strategy.

>>I'm also thinking that there's something by Poul Anderson that fits into
>>this category. I'm willing to bet that, if somebody posts the name, I'll
>>be slapping my forehead. Again.
>
>Well, IIRC, in the end Falkyn went behind Van Rijn's back to do something
>pretty important (can't recall exactly what),

Let a consortium of second-tier (economically) race have access to a
planet full of trans-actinoids? I wouldn't call that a "conspiracy",
really. It was, however, very important, especially to all of those
races that didn't have much else to offer the plutocrats. It was also
important in that it set the stage for Benoni Strang's later actions.

> and VR had to make the
>best of a fait-accompli but pretty well concluded that that was it for
>the League as an advancing polity.

He was a sharp cookie, and already had doubts about the League's
continuing viability, at least as a force for some kind of progress.

>>Is this what Jacey wanted, or did she truly want stories about the
>>*theories* themselves?
>
>She explicitly said it was OK if the conspiracy was real..

Okay, I'd missed that.

>Here's an unreal one that just came to me:
>
> _The Sleeping Planet_ Burkett

Expound, please. (At least as much as you can spoiler-free.)

[Greg Goss]

I never managed to finish the first book in the trilogy, but isn't the
Illuminatus trilogy considered to be the foundation of modern
conspiracy SF?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illuminatus!_Trilogy

Dan Brown owns the popular niche for conspiracy SF. I tend to like
his stuff, a comment that will raise screams from most of the rest of
this newsgroup.

Spoilers: Da Vinci Code features the qrfpraqnagf bs gur Grzcynef, jub
ner gur tbbq thl pbafcvengbef va guvf abiry, pbhagrerq ol Bchf Qrv jub
ner gur onq thl pbafcvengbef. Its sequel, Angels and Demons features
a obthf nggnpx ol gur Oninevna Vyyhzvangv, snxrq hc ol n Ingvpna
vafvqre npgvat nybar, jvgu pbagenpgrq ntragf. Deception Point
involves, if I recall correctly, n snxrq-hc nyvra yvsr genprf va n
zrgrbevgr, ohg V sbetrg zbfg bs gur qrgnvyf.

To be competent on a panel, you have to be rock-solid on Illuminati
mythology. If you don't have the time to read the trilogy, at least
read wikipedia on them. I am not an expert on the Illuminati, other
than recognizing the word fnord, the number 23, and the
eye-in-the-pyramid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati_in_popular_culture

Then learn your way around the Templars. This was a minor cultish
group that served a minor role in the Crusades, were supposed to have
(according to the mythology) done some archaeological excavations
around the grand Temple in Jerusalem. They then disappeared for
thirty or fifty years and then reappeared fabulously wealthy. Either
as a source or consequence of their wealth, they largely invented
international finance with basically the invention of the traveller's
cheque and major loans to royalty. When the French decided to take
over their headquarters to pick up that wealth, most of the group
mysteriously disappeared before the arrests. Most of the mythology
has them moving to Scotland at this time. The da Vinci Code features
the Templars as the good guys and The Pegasus Secret features them as
the bad guys.

The Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral commission feature in a lot of
conspiracy theorizing, but I don't know if they've featured in any SF.

A fairly common theme in Golden Age SF was to have a group of
scientists fake up an imminent alien attack to unite humanity to
counter them. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head,
but someone will reply with several.

In current SF, we often see conspiracies behind the action. In the
later books of the Honor Harrington series, we discover that "gur
Zrfna Nyvtazrag" unf orra thvqvat riragf va rqtrf bs gur Yrnthr sbe
znal trarengvbaf nf gur phyzvangvba bs n zhygv-praghel cyna gb oevat
gurve raunaprq oerrqf bs uhznaf gb gurve evtugshy cbjre bire uhznavgl.
Guvf nccrnef gb unir vapyhqrq qviregvat Unira vagb vgf punbgvp
qvirefvbaf sebz qrzbpenpl, naq fnobgntvat crnpr gnyxf orgjrra Unira
naq Znagvpber.

--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <k6mje1$vhf$1...@dont-email.me>,

This is a Russell-like story of an alien invasion of Earth. For reasons
I forget, most people are thrown (presumably by the aliens) into a
deep-sleep/suspended-animation state. For some reason though a few
Earthers stay awake and one of them starts messing with the aliens' minds..

[Michael Stemper]

In article <af8203...@mid.individual.net>, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:

>Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>>So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>>
>>The conspiracy theory doesn't have to be false.
>>
>>The first one that comes to mind is Jaine Fenn's Hidden Empire series,
>>but that's possibly because I've only just finished reading Guardians of
>>Paradise.
>
>I never managed to finish the first book in the trilogy, but isn't the
>Illuminatus trilogy considered to be the foundation of modern
>conspiracy SF?
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illuminatus!_Trilogy
>
>Dan Brown owns the popular niche for conspiracy SF. I tend to like
>his stuff, a comment that will raise screams from most of the rest of
>this newsgroup.

>Then learn your way around the Templars. This was a minor cultish
>group that served a minor role in the Crusades, were supposed to have
>(according to the mythology) done some archaeological excavations
>around the grand Temple in Jerusalem. They then disappeared for
>thirty or fifty years and then reappeared fabulously wealthy. Either
>as a source or consequence of their wealth, they largely invented

The coolest MacGuffin evah!

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:39:52 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>I can't think of any conspiratorial SF offhand, so I will merely
>quote Fritz Leiber's line from _The Big Time: "If you assume a
>big enough conspiracy, you can explain anything, including the
>universe itself."

There are a lot more people who believe in conspiracies who categorize
themselves as being on the Right than who categorize themselves as
being on the left. (and yes, this has been studied).

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[Butch Malahide]

On Oct 28, 11:26 pm, Jacey Bedford <lookin...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
> subgenres) that  have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
> on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
> three books maximum before the con.
>
> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?

_The Man Who Was Thursday_ by G. K. Chesterton
"Kindness" by Lester del Rey
"They" by Robert A. Heinlein
"The Misogynist" by James E. Gunn
"The Splendid Source" by Richard Matheson

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <ieut885ir5jrrrku3...@4ax.com>,

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:39:52 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>I can't think of any conspiratorial SF offhand, so I will merely
>>quote Fritz Leiber's line from _The Big Time: "If you assume a
>>big enough conspiracy, you can explain anything, including the
>>universe itself."
>
>There are a lot more people who believe in conspiracies who categorize
>themselves as being on the Right than who categorize themselves as
>being on the left. (and yes, this has been studied).
>

If so, I suspect it is like those "We have just scientifically proved
conservatives are stupid" studies that seem to come out ever few years.
Since academics are, of course, completely above identifying as liberal
or conservative, they *must* be accurate!

It seems to me that liberals believe quite strongly in a lot of
conspiracy theories. "Dog Whistles!" "Diebold!" "Cheney is a
puppetmaster!" "Florida!" "No way is Palin Trig's mom!" "9/11
was an inside job!" "No way jet fuel can melt steel!"

I'm not saying some conservatives don't believe in other conspiracy
theories, but I bet you could counter every one on that side by one on
the other.

[Butch Malahide]

On Oct 29, 1:59 pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> A fairly common theme in Golden Age SF was to have a group of
> scientists fake up an imminent alien attack to unite humanity to
> counter them.  I can't think of any examples off the top of my head,
> but someone will reply with several.

I didn't know it was that common. I guess Sturgeon's "Unite and
Conquer" is one of them. What are the others?

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <1d3f1a8c-66b5-4b77...@z2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,

Not GA, but Moore's "Watchmen" & STOS "Patterns of Force".

[Jerry Brown]

On 29 Oct 2012 22:46:44 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan

<tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <1d3f1a8c-66b5-4b77...@z2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
>Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Oct 29, 1:59 pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>>> A fairly common theme in Golden Age SF was to have a group of
>>> scientists fake up an imminent alien attack to unite humanity to
>>> counter them.  I can't think of any examples off the top of my head,
>>> but someone will reply with several.
>>
>>I didn't know it was that common. I guess Sturgeon's "Unite and
>>Conquer" is one of them. What are the others?
>
>Not GA, but Moore's "Watchmen" & STOS "Patterns of Force".

There was also a novel by Mack Reynolds but I can't remember the
title.

--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

[David Johnston]

On Monday, October 29, 2012 3:06:33 PM UTC-7, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <ieut885ir5jrrrku3...@4ax.com>,
>
> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:39:52 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>
> >Heydt) wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>I can't think of any conspiratorial SF offhand, so I will merely
>
> >>quote Fritz Leiber's line from _The Big Time: "If you assume a
>
> >>big enough conspiracy, you can explain anything, including the
>
> >>universe itself."
>
> >
>
> >There are a lot more people who believe in conspiracies who categorize
>
> >themselves as being on the Right than who categorize themselves as
>
> >being on the left. (and yes, this has been studied).
>
> >
>
>
>
> If so, I suspect it is like those "We have just scientifically proved
>
> conservatives are stupid" studies that seem to come out ever few years.
>
> Since academics are, of course, completely above identifying as liberal
>
> or conservative, they *must* be accurate!
>
>
>
> It seems to me that liberals believe quite strongly in a lot of
>
> conspiracy theories. "Dog Whistles!" "Diebold!" "Cheney is a
>
> puppetmaster!" "Florida!" "No way is Palin Trig's mom!" "9/11
>
> was an inside job!" "No way jet fuel can melt steel!"

"Cheney is a puppetmaster" isn't a conspiracy theory. There's nothing criminal about the president letting the vice president call shots. It's just unusual. "9/11 is an inside job" is a conspiracy theory but it draws from right, left and libertarians.

[Rod Speed]

"David Johnston" <davidjohnst...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b323e7b0-ac3c-4b21...@googlegroups.com...

> On Monday, October 29, 2012 3:06:33 PM UTC-7, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <ieut885ir5jrrrku3...@4ax.com>,
>>
>> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:39:52 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>
>> >Heydt) wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >>I can't think of any conspiratorial SF offhand, so I will merely
>>
>> >>quote Fritz Leiber's line from _The Big Time: "If you assume a
>>
>> >>big enough conspiracy, you can explain anything, including the
>>
>> >>universe itself."
>>
>> >
>>
>> >There are a lot more people who believe in conspiracies who categorize
>>
>> >themselves as being on the Right than who categorize themselves as
>>
>> >being on the left. (and yes, this has been studied).
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> If so, I suspect it is like those "We have just scientifically proved
>>
>> conservatives are stupid" studies that seem to come out ever few years.
>>
>> Since academics are, of course, completely above identifying as liberal
>>
>> or conservative, they *must* be accurate!
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that liberals believe quite strongly in a lot of
>>
>> conspiracy theories. "Dog Whistles!" "Diebold!" "Cheney is a
>>
>> puppetmaster!" "Florida!" "No way is Palin Trig's mom!" "9/11
>>
>> was an inside job!" "No way jet fuel can melt steel!"
>
> "Cheney is a puppetmaster" isn't a conspiracy theory.
> There's nothing criminal about the president letting
> the vice president call shots. It's just unusual.

Yes.

> "9/11 is an inside job" is a conspiracy theory

Yes.

> but it draws from right, left and libertarians.

Have fun listing anyone on the left that matters
who has ever been stupid enough to run that line.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 10/29/12 6:46 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <1d3f1a8c-66b5-4b77...@z2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
> Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 1:59 pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>>> A fairly common theme in Golden Age SF was to have a group of
>>> scientists fake up an imminent alien attack to unite humanity to
>>> counter them. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head,
>>> but someone will reply with several.
>>
>> I didn't know it was that common. I guess Sturgeon's "Unite and
>> Conquer" is one of them. What are the others?
>
> Not GA, but Moore's "Watchmen" & STOS "Patterns of Force".
>

"The Stars Are Too High" by Agnew H. Bahnson.

[Cryptoengineer]

On Oct 29, 12:26 am, Jacey Bedford <lookin...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
> subgenres) that  have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
> on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
> three books maximum before the con.
>
> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>

> The conspiracy theory doesn't have to be false.
>
> The first one that comes to mind is Jaine Fenn's Hidden Empire series,
> but that's possibly because I've only just finished reading Guardians of
> Paradise.

Just let me chime in on the 'Illuminatus! trilogy'. It is chock full
of conspiracy groups, and written in a non-linear acid-soaked style
that is incredibly appealing when you're young and trying to make
sense of the world. I loved it when I was in my twenties. RAW also
wrote an (unfinished) followup series: 'The Historical Illuminatus',
that takes the story back to the Enlightenment. People attracted to an
SF con panel on conspiracies will be very likely to have read at least
Illuminatus!

The Dan Brown books are trash, but tDVC is very well known.

pt

[Dan Goodman]

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> In article <wGalB82m...@parkhead.demon.co.uk>,
> Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or
> > related subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've
> > been asked to be on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got
> > time to read two or three books maximum before the con.
> >
> > So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
> >
> > The conspiracy theory doesn't have to be false.
> >
> > The first one that comes to mind is Jaine Fenn's Hidden Empire
> > series, but that's possibly because I've only just finished reading
> > Guardians of Paradise.
>
> I can't think of any conspiratorial SF offhand, so I will merely
> quote Fritz Leiber's line from _The Big Time: "If you assume a
> big enough conspiracy, you can explain anything, including the
> universe itself."

But note that Leiber postulated _two_ competing theories to achieve
that purpose.

--
Dan Goodman
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.

[David DeLaney]

Cryptoengineer <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Just let me chime in on the 'Illuminatus! trilogy'. It is chock full
>of conspiracy groups, and written in a non-linear acid-soaked style
>that is incredibly appealing when you're young and trying to make
>sense of the world. I loved it when I was in my twenties. RAW also
>wrote an (unfinished) followup series: 'The Historical Illuminatus',
>that takes the story back to the Enlightenment. People attracted to an
>SF con panel on conspiracies will be very likely to have read at least
>Illuminatus!

And I'll note that, due to finding-the-books issues, I read the trilogy in
reverse order to start with. It made just about as much sense.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <k6mhur$npd$2...@dont-email.me>, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> writes:
>On 10/29/12 2:28 PM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> On 10/29/12 1:55 PM, Michael Stemper wrote:
>>> In article <k6mbf8$df0$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> writes:
>>>> Here, Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>>>>> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?

>>>> And then, I guess, Philip K. Dick. I'm not much of a Dick reader, so I
>>>> won't try to name specific titles, but I understand that "just pick
>>>> one" is a valid strategy.
>>>
>>> Pretty much, yeah.
>>>
>>> I'm also thinking that there's something by Poul Anderson that fits into
>>> this category. I'm willing to bet that, if somebody posts the name, I'll
>>> be slapping my forehead. Again.
>>
>> "After Doomsday" would seem to fit.

Huh. I don't even recognize the title. More Poul!

> And I think "The Day of Their Return" features a significant conspiracy
>as well.

<slap target="forehead">

[Michael Stemper]

In article <ieut885ir5jrrrku3...@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> writes:
>On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:39:52 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

>>I can't think of any conspiratorial SF offhand, so I will merely
>>quote Fritz Leiber's line from _The Big Time: "If you assume a
>>big enough conspiracy, you can explain anything, including the
>>universe itself."
>
>There are a lot more people who believe in conspiracies who categorize
>themselves as being on the Right than who categorize themselves as
>being on the left. (and yes, this has been studied).

The relevance of this is what, exactly?

[Michael Stemper]

In article <d00cf245-0ddc-481a...@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> writes:

>On Oct 28, 11:26=A0pm, Jacey Bedford <lookin...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related

>> subgenres) that =A0have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be

>> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>
>_The Man Who Was Thursday_ by G. K. Chesterton

This is it! The ultimate conspiracy.

[Stephen Allcroft]

On Oct 30, 12:54 pm, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper)
wrote:

> In article <d00cf245-0ddc-481a-be22-6c5c1e0b5...@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >On Oct 28, 11:26=A0pm, Jacey Bedford <lookin...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
> >> subgenres) that =A0have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
> >> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?

Try any of Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next books.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <1d3f1a8c-66b5-4b77...@z2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> writes:

>On Oct 29, 1:59=A0pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>> A fairly common theme in Golden Age SF was to have a group of
>> scientists fake up an imminent alien attack to unite humanity to

>> counter them. =A0I can't think of any examples off the top of my head,

>> but someone will reply with several.
>
>I didn't know it was that common. I guess Sturgeon's "Unite and
>Conquer" is one of them.

With the proviso that the "group of scientists" was very small. In fact,
if was any smaller it couldn't be a group, due to the lack of identity.

[Drak Bibliophile]

There was a book titled _The Big Eye_ but there the conspiracy to hide
the fact that a rogue planet would *miss* Earth not destroy Earth.

The idea was that if people thought the end of the world was coming and
the world miraculously was spared, then the world would become a better
place.


--
*
Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins!
*
--------
*

[Kip Williams]

Michael Stemper wrote, On 10/30/12 8:54 AM:

> In article <d00cf245-0ddc-481a...@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Oct 28, 11:26=A0pm, Jacey Bedford <lookin...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
>>> subgenres) that =A0have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
>
>>> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>>
>> _The Man Who Was Thursday_ by G. K. Chesterton
>
> This is it! The ultimate conspiracy.

The conspiracy to turn an interesting setup into a sort of disappointing
parable?

(Incidentally, Orson Welles did a radio version of this that can be
found at archive.org. At least I think that's where I got it.)


Kip W
rasfw

[Michael Stemper]

In article <T4qdnckr9aT2nQ3N...@giganews.com>, Drak Bibliophile <drakbib...@comcast.net> writes:
>On 10/29/2012 5:15 PM, Butch Malahide wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 1:59 pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>>> A fairly common theme in Golden Age SF was to have a group of
>>> scientists fake up an imminent alien attack to unite humanity to
>>> counter them. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head,
>>> but someone will reply with several.
>>
>> I didn't know it was that common. I guess Sturgeon's "Unite and
>> Conquer" is one of them. What are the others?
>
>There was a book titled _The Big Eye_ but there the conspiracy to hide
>the fact that a rogue planet would *miss* Earth not destroy Earth.
>
>The idea was that if people thought the end of the world was coming and
>the world miraculously was spared, then the world would become a better
>place.

Kind of like in _When Worlds Collide_ and _Skylark of Valeron_ and
"Nightfall", eh?

[Butch Malahide]

On Oct 30, 8:09 am, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper)
wrote:

> In article <1d3f1a8c-66b5-4b77-bb2d-cc36db826...@z2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >On Oct 29, 1:59=A0pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> >> A fairly common theme in Golden Age SF was to have a group of
> >> scientists fake up an imminent alien attack to unite humanity to
> >> counter them. =A0I can't think of any examples off the top of my head,
> >> but someone will reply with several.
>
> >I didn't know it was that common. I guess Sturgeon's "Unite and
> >Conquer" is one of them.
>
> With the proviso that the "group of scientists" was very small. In fact,
> if was any smaller it couldn't be a group, due to the lack of identity.

ObMath: E. S. Rapaport, "Groups of Order 1", Proc. Amer. Math. Soc. 15
(1964), 828-833.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <b7184f30-946d-46ae...@v9g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> writes:

>On Oct 30, 8:09=A0am, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>> In article <1d3f1a8c-66b5-4b77-bb2d-cc36db826...@z2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> writes:

>> >On Oct 29, 1:59=3DA0pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>> >> A fairly common theme in Golden Age SF was to have a group of
>> >> scientists fake up an imminent alien attack to unite humanity to

>> >I didn't know it was that common. I guess Sturgeon's "Unite and
>> >Conquer" is one of them.
>>
>> With the proviso that the "group of scientists" was very small. In fact,
>> if was any smaller it couldn't be a group, due to the lack of identity.
>
>ObMath: E. S. Rapaport, "Groups of Order 1", Proc. Amer. Math. Soc. 15
>(1964), 828-833.

Group*s*? Plural? I see that it's on-line in multiple locations, so I'll
have to find out for myself.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <k6oim1$fvu$5...@dont-email.me>,

Michael Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>In article
><d00cf245-0ddc-481a...@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Oct 28, 11:26=A0pm, Jacey Bedford <lookin...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
>>> subgenres) that =A0have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
>
>>> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>>
>>_The Man Who Was Thursday_ by G. K. Chesterton
>
>This is it! The ultimate conspiracy.
>

How about _Where Were You Last Plutterday?_

[Butch Malahide]

On Oct 30, 12:55 pm, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper)
wrote:

> In article <b7184f30-946d-46ae-a21d-4da86b474...@v9g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >On Oct 30, 8:09=A0am, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
> >> In article <1d3f1a8c-66b5-4b77-bb2d-cc36db826...@z2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> >On Oct 29, 1:59=3DA0pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> >> >> A fairly common theme in Golden Age SF was to have a group of
> >> >> scientists fake up an imminent alien attack to unite humanity to
> >> >I didn't know it was that common. I guess Sturgeon's "Unite and
> >> >Conquer" is one of them.
>
> >> With the proviso that the "group of scientists" was very small. In fact,
> >> if was any smaller it couldn't be a group, due to the lack of identity.
>
> >ObMath: E. S. Rapaport, "Groups of Order 1", Proc. Amer. Math. Soc. 15
> >(1964), 828-833.
>
> Group*s*? Plural?

Oh, there are lots of one-element groups. Of course they are all
isomorphic, but it isn't always easy to tell if two given groups are
isomorphic.

[Jacey Bedford]

In message <k6mfus$4l2$2...@dont-email.me>, Michael Stemper
<mste...@walkabout.empros.com> writes
>After I posted my suggestions, and then saw the great deal of overlap
>mine had with others', a soupcon of doubt entered my mind. Every title
>suggested that I was familiar with was really about a conspiracy rather
>than a conspiracy theory. The Secret Masters had pretty much been
>covering up their existence successfully. There weren't theories. Some
>of the stories portrayed events that led to the unmasking of the
>particular conspiracy, but no general advance speculation about the
>existence of same.
>
>Is this what Jacey wanted, or did she truly want stories about the
>*theories* themselves?


Hmmm... Both, I think.

Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford

[Jacey Bedford]

In message <af8203...@mid.individual.net>, Greg Goss
<go...@gossg.org> writes

>Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related

>>subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
>>on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
>>three books maximum before the con.
>>

>>So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>>

>>The conspiracy theory doesn't have to be false.
>>
>>The first one that comes to mind is Jaine Fenn's Hidden Empire series,
>>but that's possibly because I've only just finished reading Guardians of
>>Paradise.
>

>I never managed to finish the first book in the trilogy, but isn't the
>Illuminatus trilogy considered to be the foundation of modern
>conspiracy SF?
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illuminatus!_Trilogy
>
>Dan Brown owns the popular niche for conspiracy SF. I tend to like
>his stuff, a comment that will raise screams from most of the rest of
>this newsgroup.
>
>Spoilers: Da Vinci Code features the qrfpraqnagf bs gur Grzcynef, jub
>ner gur tbbq thl pbafcvengbef va guvf abiry, pbhagrerq ol Bchf Qrv jub
>ner gur onq thl pbafcvengbef. Its sequel, Angels and Demons features
>a obthf nggnpx ol gur Oninevna Vyyhzvangv, snxrq hc ol n Ingvpna
>vafvqre npgvat nybar, jvgu pbagenpgrq ntragf. Deception Point
>involves, if I recall correctly, n snxrq-hc nyvra yvsr genprf va n
>zrgrbevgr, ohg V sbetrg zbfg bs gur qrgnvyf.
>
>To be competent on a panel, you have to be rock-solid on Illuminati
>mythology. If you don't have the time to read the trilogy, at least
>read wikipedia on them. I am not an expert on the Illuminati, other
>than recognizing the word fnord, the number 23, and the
>eye-in-the-pyramid.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati_in_popular_culture
>
>Then learn your way around the Templars. This was a minor cultish
>group that served a minor role in the Crusades, were supposed to have
>(according to the mythology) done some archaeological excavations
>around the grand Temple in Jerusalem. They then disappeared for
>thirty or fifty years and then reappeared fabulously wealthy. Either
>as a source or consequence of their wealth, they largely invented
>international finance with basically the invention of the traveller's
>cheque and major loans to royalty. When the French decided to take
>over their headquarters to pick up that wealth, most of the group
>mysteriously disappeared before the arrests. Most of the mythology
>has them moving to Scotland at this time. The da Vinci Code features
>the Templars as the good guys and The Pegasus Secret features them as
>the bad guys.
>
>The Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral commission feature in a lot of
>conspiracy theorizing, but I don't know if they've featured in any SF.

>
>A fairly common theme in Golden Age SF was to have a group of
>scientists fake up an imminent alien attack to unite humanity to

>counter them. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head,

>but someone will reply with several.
>

>In current SF, we often see conspiracies behind the action. In the
>later books of the Honor Harrington series, we discover that "gur
>Zrfna Nyvtazrag" unf orra thvqvat riragf va rqtrf bs gur Yrnthr sbe
>znal trarengvbaf nf gur phyzvangvba bs n zhygv-praghel cyna gb oevat
>gurve raunaprq oerrqf bs uhznaf gb gurve evtugshy cbjre bire uhznavgl.
>Guvf nccrnef gb unir vapyhqrq qviregvat Unira vagb vgf punbgvp
>qvirefvbaf sebz qrzbpenpl, naq fnobgntvat crnpr gnyxf orgjrra Unira
>naq Znagvpber.
>
Thanks for all the detail. The more I read, the less I feel up for this
panel. I need an idiot's guide to conspiracy theory. Wikipedia here I
come...

Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford

[David DeLaney]

Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>I need an idiot's guide to conspiracy theory. Wikipedia here I come...

.sig quotes! Get your red-hot .sig quotes here! Onna stick!

[Kevrob]

On Oct 31, 5:18 am, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:

> Jacey Bedford <lookin...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >I need an idiot's guide to conspiracy theory. Wikipedia here I come...
>
> .sig quotes! Get your red-hot .sig quotes here! Onna stick!
>
> Dave
> --
>

More conspiranoia:

Matt Ruff: Sewer, Gas & Electric, Bad Monkeys & The Mirage.

Where does "Secret History" come into this?

Kevin

[Lynn McGuire]

On 10/28/2012 11:26 PM, Jacey Bedford wrote:
> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been
> asked to be on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or three books maximum before the con.
>
> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>
> The conspiracy theory doesn't have to be false.
>
> The first one that comes to mind is Jaine Fenn's Hidden Empire series, but that's possibly because I've only just finished reading
> Guardians of Paradise.
>

> Thanks
>
> Jacey

_Don of the Dead_ by Casey Daniels
http://www.amazon.com/Don-Dead-Pepper-Martin-Mysteries/dp/0060821469/

Lynn

[hielan' laddie]

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:55:40 -0400, Michael Stemper wrote
(in article <k6mfus$4l2$2...@dont-email.me>):

> In article <k6mbf8$df0$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Andrew Plotkin
> <erky...@eblong.com> writes:

>> Here, Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
>>> subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
>>> on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
>>> three books maximum before the con.
>>>
>>> So which are the three essential conspiracy theory books and why?
>>

>> _Illuminatus_ has already been mentioned, so...
>
> I didn't let that stop me.

>
>> And then, I guess, Philip K. Dick. I'm not much of a Dick reader, so I
>> won't try to name specific titles, but I understand that "just pick
>> one" is a valid strategy.
>
> Pretty much, yeah.
>
> I'm also thinking that there's something by Poul Anderson that fits into
> this category. I'm willing to bet that, if somebody posts the name, I'll
> be slapping my forehead. Again.

There are a _lot_ of Poul Anderson conspiracy/secret masters stories.

Elements can be seen in, in no particular order:

The various Time Patrol stories, especially the one where one of the
time-travelers sets himself up as, effectively, a Norse god (and things come
to a Bad End) and the other one where Time Patrolmen are sent off to screw
with a Mongol/Chinese expedition to North America, in order to make sure that
the proper timeline came out, and the other one where the bad guys screwed
with one of the Rome/Carthage wars, and the Patrol gets to try to undo the
damage. There are others.

"No Truce With Kings": alien do-gooders try to run a utopian cult in a post
nuke-war California. (Things come to a Bad End.)

_Ensign Flandry_ has at its heart _two_ conspiracies, one by the Mersians
against their own guy and one by Flandry (and others) against Flandry's boss.
Things come to a Bad End. (You may be detecting a theme.)

_The Boat of a Million Years_ had a long-running conspiracy, involving secret
masters; they were, basically, immortals. There were several Bad Ends. (Yes,
there's a theme...)

_Avatar_ had a conspiracy involving assorted gods, godlings, seklies,
assorted other mythological creatures. (You guessed it, there's a Bad End.)

And _The Dancer From Atlantis_ featured a backstory involving said dancer and
her older version, brought back through time along with a Rus and some
others. (There's a Very Bad End.)

Finally, in _There Will Be Time_, there's a conspiracy within a conspiracy.
(Genetic time travelers want to rule the world...)

[David DeLaney]

hielan' laddie <bobbi...@bobbybruce.co.uk.not> wrote:
>The various Time Patrol stories, especially the one where one of the
>time-travelers sets himself up as, effectively, a Norse god (and things come
>to a Bad End) and the other one where Time Patrolmen are sent off to screw
>with a Mongol/Chinese expedition to North America, in order to make sure that
>the proper timeline came out, and the other one where the bad guys screwed
>with one of the Rome/Carthage wars, and the Patrol gets to try to undo the
>damage. There are others.

Which reminds me of other secret-masters stories, the particular one of which
popping up for me is Asimov's _The End of Eternity_, this time. But a lot of
time-travel/parallel-travel stories have this sort of thing in. Harry
Turtledove's YA Crosstime Traffic series; Katharine Kerr's new Psychic
Travellers series (the one that starts with License to Ensorcell). Almost
any urban fantasy where some sort of Masquerade is being practiced to keep
the general public unaware of the supernatural beasties (ObCanonical: Anne
Rice's vampires).

[Howard Brazee]

How about _The Stars My Destination_? Although it took a while to
find out that there was a conspiracy (and that wasn't what the book
was about).

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[Howard Brazee]

Frank Herbert has conspiracy elements in some of his books.

[Jacey Bedford]

In message <slrnk91r7...@gatekeeper.vic.com>, David DeLaney
<d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> writes

>Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>I need an idiot's guide to conspiracy theory. Wikipedia here I come...
>
>.sig quotes! Get your red-hot .sig quotes here! Onna stick!
>
>Dave

:-)

Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford

[Brian M. Scott]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:43:46 -0400, David DeLaney
<d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in
<news:slrnk938h...@gatekeeper.vic.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> Katharine Kerr's new Psychic Travellers series (the one
> that starts with License to Ensorcell).

Which is very good. The stories aren't bad, but the
characters really make the series.

[...]

Brian

[art...@yahoo.com]

On Monday, October 29, 2012 12:26:14 AM UTC-4, Jacey Bedford wrote:
> Can anyone recommend any books in science fiction or fantasy (or related
>
> subgenres) that have conspiracy theories in them. I've been asked to be
>
> on a con panel on the subject and I've maybe got time to read two or
>
> three books maximum before the con.
>
>
>

Memoirs Found in a Bathtub, by Stanislaw Lem perhaps?

[Michael Stemper]

In article <8fecafa1-7849-49d6...@y8g2000yqy.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> writes:

>On Oct 30, 12:55=A0pm, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>> In article <b7184f30-946d-46ae-a21d-4da86b474...@v9g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> writes:

>> >On Oct 30, 8:09=3DA0am, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:

>> >> >I didn't know it was that common. I guess Sturgeon's "Unite and
>> >> >Conquer" is one of them.
>>
>> >> With the proviso that the "group of scientists" was very small. In fact,
>> >> if was any smaller it couldn't be a group, due to the lack of identity.
>>
>> >ObMath: E. S. Rapaport, "Groups of Order 1", Proc. Amer. Math. Soc. 15
>> >(1964), 828-833.
>>
>> Group*s*? Plural?
>
>Oh, there are lots of one-element groups. Of course they are all
>isomorphic, but it isn't always easy to tell if two given groups are
>isomorphic.

And, if I understood the parts of that paper that I think I did, it's
about doing just that. Right?

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 17:56:39 -0400, hielan' laddie
<bobbi...@bobbybruce.co.uk.not> wrote:

[trimmed Bad Ends]

LOTR had some conspiracies, too. For example: Saruman sent
Wormtongue to Rohan to make them less effective. Then, there were
Saruman's activities in the Shire. Those came to a Bag End.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 03:38:50 +0000, Jacey Bedford
<look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

[snip]

>Thanks for all the detail. The more I read, the less I feel up for this
>panel. I need an idiot's guide to conspiracy theory. Wikipedia here I
>come...

You are going to trust them?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; in article,
<3h3u9897ufek3itig...@4ax.com>,
ge...@ocis.net "Gene Wirchenko" mispoke:

>
>LOTR had some conspiracies, too. For example: Saruman sent Wormtongue
>to Rohan to make them less effective.

- with whom did saruman conspire to place grima wormtongue at
theoden's elbow, whispering his poisonous words into his ear?

>Then, there were Saruman's activities in the Shire.

- again, it's not obvious that saruman conspired with anyone,
to send his ruffians into the shire; it's _possible_ that
lotho shared in planning the undermining of the established
(and possibly self-satisfied) traditional organisation of the
shire, the posthumous picture presents us with is far closer
to the pimple having been an easy mark for saruman's flattery
& silken voice; a dupe with delusions of command & competence.

- love, a ppint. as disbelieves in conspiracies of one.

[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"never trust a man with shaved buttocks"
- jim darby, 2/9/96 (9/2/96 for merkins)

[Jacey Bedford]

In message <354u98psum3haps6l...@4ax.com>, Gene Wirchenko
<ge...@ocis.net> writes

Well, I know they may be secretly ruling the world, but I can cope...

Jacey

--
Jacey Bedford