Any other examples
James Nicoll
across my LJ* but I don't want to talk about that. What I do want
to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their
very first novels.
Example One: Orson Scott Card, whose orginal novella "Ender's Game"
came out 32 years ago. He's still doing ENDER material, although I
will admit he finds time for other stuff.
Examples Two: Steven Gould. His JUMPER came out in 1992. Between 1992
and 2000, he did four unrelated novels but all (which admittedly is
the same as "both") his 21st novels have been JUMPER-related.
Are there any other examples?
* Actually, that's not accurate. What happened was his old Secular
Humanist Revivals got mentioned in passing. Anyone know exactly
when he stopped doing those?
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Anthony Nance
> The Greating Floating Orson Scott Card Flamewar drifted
> across my LJ* but I don't want to talk about that. What I do want
> to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their
> very first novels.
>
> Example One: Orson Scott Card, whose orginal novella "Ender's Game"
> came out 32 years ago. He's still doing ENDER material, although I
> will admit he finds time for other stuff.
>
> Examples Two: Steven Gould. His JUMPER came out in 1992. Between 1992
> and 2000, he did four unrelated novels but all (which admittedly is
> the same as "both") his 21st novels have been JUMPER-related.
>
> Are there any other examples?
JK Rowling is the only one that comes to mind at the moment.[1]
If others present themselves, I'll pop back.
Tony
[1] Unless Cordwainer Smith counts, but I don't think he fits what
you're thinking. Iain M Banks alone (re: Consider Phlebas/the
Culture) would seem to work, but ignoring all the non-"M" output
is rigging things.
James Nicoll
I don't know why neither of them feels right (maybe it's the relative
lack of other settings) - wait, I think I do - it's not the reuse of
a setting, it's the reuse of one character or a small set of characters
(Ender and his buds, that guy from JUMPER). Smith and Banks generally
didn't reuse protagonists (C'Mell aside).
I did think of another possible example: Isaac Asimov. In the last
decade of his career, what his publishers really wanted from him was
more Robot and more Foundation books, especially Foundation. Of course,
being the writing machine that he was, Asimov managed to fit in eleventy
dozen Norby books, among other things.
Anthony Nance
Those are good points - I had rejected them for different reasons.
> I did think of another possible example: Isaac Asimov. In the last
> decade of his career, what his publishers really wanted from him was
> more Robot and more Foundation books, especially Foundation. Of course,
> being the writing machine that he was, Asimov managed to fit in eleventy
> dozen Norby books, among other things.
I thought about Asimov too, for similar reasons.
I also thought about (but rejected) the following, but perhaps a few
of them fit what you're thinking:
Douglas Adams, Bujold, Tolkien, Alastair Reynolds, Donaldson, and
not-often-considered-SF Tom Clancy.
Tony
Wayne Throop
: it's not the reuse of a setting, it's the reuse of one character or a
: small set of characters (Ender and his buds, that guy from JUMPER)
Ah, but note that Jumper (the movie spinoff novel) doesn't have the
same characters (dave-n-millie), and is sort of a prequel-in-a-
parallel-universe kind of thing. I mean, sure, Grif is going to
meet parallel-date-n-millie after the events depicted, but should
that really count? Or rather, obviously it should count since it's
one of your examples, but maybe it means the description of just
what's being reused needs to be more complicated.
Hm. An interesting case is Steakley's "Armor" and "Vampire$".
Both are about Jack Crow and Felix. But... other than that,
they are nigh-completely unrelated. Another instance of that
is Bujold's use of Cordelia, in the SherlockHolmesiverse.
(Mind you, you could say it's just a case of name recycling,
but it does seem more than that in both those cass.)
Oh, oh, and Brust's use of Devera.
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
James Nicoll
Why don't I paint myself into a corner by giving whatever it is
that I am talking about a name: Nightfall Syndrome, where the work fans
seem to like best comes from the beginning of the author's career.
Come to think of it, Holmes Syndrome might work better.
Sean O'Hara
declared:
> The Greating Floating Orson Scott Card Flamewar drifted
> across my LJ* but I don't want to talk about that. What I do want
> to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their
> very first novels.
>
> Example One: Orson Scott Card, whose orginal novella "Ender's Game"
> came out 32 years ago. He's still doing ENDER material, although I
> will admit he finds time for other stuff.
>
> Examples Two: Steven Gould. His JUMPER came out in 1992. Between 1992
> and 2000, he did four unrelated novels but all (which admittedly is
> the same as "both") his 21st novels have been JUMPER-related.
>
> Are there any other examples?
>
Mary Shelley -- she never got around to writing a sequel to
Frankenstein, but she did cash in with an expanded edition, and
that's pretty much all she's known for outside of academics and
genre fans.
And a non-SF example, there's Joseph Heller -- he wrote Catch 22,
then a bunch of stuff what nobody cared, then a sequel to Catch 22
that people were interested in for about five minutes, then he died.
--
Sean O'Hara <http://www.diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com>
New audio book: As Long as You Wish by John O'Keefe
<http://librivox.org/short-science-fiction-collection-010/>
David DeLaney
> The Greating Floating Orson Scott Card Flamewar drifted
>across my LJ* but I don't want to talk about that.
I haven't looked at your LJ in a while - catching up on Making Light right
now - but when I do I'll take care not to step in it.
>What I do want
>to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their
>very first novels.
>Example One: Orson Scott Card, whose orginal novella "Ender's Game"
>came out 32 years ago. He's still doing ENDER material, although I
>will admit he finds time for other stuff.
>
>Examples Two: Steven Gould. His JUMPER came out in 1992. Between 1992
>and 2000, he did four unrelated novels but all (which admittedly is
>the same as "both") his 21st novels have been JUMPER-related.
>
>Are there any other examples?
I presume you're not really interested in Big Authors who only ever _wrote_
one book, correct? Or kids' series, like Danny Dunn or Miss Pickerell?
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Dimensional Traveler
> The Greating Floating Orson Scott Card Flamewar drifted
> across my LJ* but I don't want to talk about that. What I do want
> to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their
> very first novels.
>
> Example One: Orson Scott Card, whose orginal novella "Ender's Game"
> came out 32 years ago. He's still doing ENDER material, although I
> will admit he finds time for other stuff.
>
> Examples Two: Steven Gould. His JUMPER came out in 1992. Between 1992
> and 2000, he did four unrelated novels but all (which admittedly is
> the same as "both") his 21st novels have been JUMPER-related.
>
> Are there any other examples?
>
Terry Goodkind and his "Sword of Truth" series. In his case it may be
because he's not interested in writing anything else apparently.
Terry Brooks and the Shannara series.
--
"Dude. They've gone fractal."
Ilya2
Space is what he is mostly Known For. And lately he keeps rehashing it
with characters from back when coming back as Protectors.
Kurt Busiek
> The Greating Floating Orson Scott Card Flamewar drifted
> across my LJ* but I don't want to talk about that. What I do want
> to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their
> very first novels.
>
> Example One: Orson Scott Card, whose orginal novella "Ender's Game"
> came out 32 years ago. He's still doing ENDER material, although I
> will admit he finds time for other stuff.
>
> Examples Two: Steven Gould. His JUMPER came out in 1992. Between 1992
> and 2000, he did four unrelated novels but all (which admittedly is
> the same as "both") his 21st novels have been JUMPER-related.
>
> Are there any other examples?
Jim Butcher's career has been dominated by Harry Dresden. He's written
the Codex Alera books and some other stuff as well, but then, Card has
written plenty of other stuff, too. If your criteria is "still writing
sequels to first novel alongside other stuff," I'd think there are a
lot of people who fit that bill.
kdb
> * Actually, that's not accurate. What happened was his old Secular
> Humanist Revivals got mentioned in passing. Anyone know exactly
> when he stopped doing those?
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Anthony Nance
> In article <hf0rfl$bus$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> In article <hf0p0b$bt4$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
>>> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>> The Greating Floating Orson Scott Card Flamewar drifted
>>>>> across my LJ* but I don't want to talk about that. What I do want
>>>>> to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their
>>>>> very first novels.
>>>>>
>>>>> Example One: Orson Scott Card, whose orginal novella "Ender's Game"
>>>>>
>>>>> Examples Two: Steven Gould. His JUMPER came out in 1992. Between 1992
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there any other examples?
>>>>
>>>>JK Rowling is the only one that comes to mind at the moment.[1]
>>>>If others present themselves, I'll pop back.
>>>>
>>>>Tony
>>>>[1] Unless Cordwainer Smith counts, but I don't think he fits what
>>>> you're thinking. Iain M Banks alone (re: Consider Phlebas/the
>>>> Culture) would seem to work, but ignoring all the non-"M" output
>>>> is rigging things.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> I did think of another possible example: Isaac Asimov. In the last
>>> decade of his career, what his publishers really wanted from him was
>>> more Robot and more Foundation books, especially Foundation. Of course,
>>> being the writing machine that he was, Asimov managed to fit in eleventy
>>> dozen Norby books, among other things.
>>
>>I thought about Asimov too, for similar reasons.
>>
>>I also thought about (but rejected) the following, but perhaps a few
>>of them fit what you're thinking:
>>
>>Douglas Adams, Bujold, Tolkien, Alastair Reynolds, Donaldson, and
>>not-often-considered-SF Tom Clancy.
>>
> Reynolds is still at the beginning of his career, isn't he?
Could be - Revelation Space is from 2000, and he's published 9+ novels....
I rejected him more for having roughly half of his novels not in the
same universe as novel #1, at least two of which caught good attention,
in these parts at least.
> Why don't I paint myself into a corner by giving whatever it is
> that I am talking about a name: Nightfall Syndrome, where the work fans
> seem to like best comes from the beginning of the author's career.
>
> Come to think of it, Holmes Syndrome might work better.
That's starts to blur into "author's most identified works happen
to be associated with his first"; not that there's anything wrong
with that, of course.
Tony
Dorothy J Heydt
Ouch.
How wise I was to stop reading him around the late 1960s.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
Franco
> The Greating Floating Orson Scott Card Flamewar drifted
> across my LJ* but I don't want to talk about that. What I do want
> to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their
> very first novels.
>
Remus Shepherd
> The Greating Floating Orson Scott Card Flamewar drifted
> across my LJ* but I don't want to talk about that. What I do want
> to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their
> very first novels.
> Examples Two: Steven Gould. His JUMPER came out in 1992. Between 1992
> and 2000, he did four unrelated novels but all (which admittedly is
> the same as "both") his 21st novels have been JUMPER-related.
Not sure that Steven Gould belongs in this category. He negotiated
with the movie studio to write the adaptation of the Jumper film, and he
also wrote a sequel to Jumper in order to capitalize on the movie.
I think his problem is that he's not very prolific, so this string of
three connected novels seems to stand out. If he keeps writing Jumper
novels then yeah, I'd agree. But right now I think he's just trying to be
a savvy businessman taking advantage of a Hollywood contract.
I might add Leigh Bracket to your list. Although the Eric John Stark
novels weren't her first they were early in her career, and she came back
to them again and again, and I think that's what she's best known for.
... ...
Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com>
Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/remus_shepherd/
Wayne Throop
: Not sure that Steven Gould belongs in this category. He negotiated
: with the movie studio to write the adaptation of the Jumper film, and he
: also wrote a sequel to Jumper in order to capitalize on the movie.
I don't think so. The sequel is "Reflex", which is set in the same
continuity as the original "Jumper". The "adaptation of the Jumper
film" (ie, "Jumper: Griffin's Story") wasn't really an adaptation of
the film, but a *pre*quel to the film story, and the film is a sort of
odd parallel-universe David Rice story, incompatible with either Jumper
or Reflex, in both the limitations and fx of the Jump process, and in
story events. Though it has some vague parallels to the original Jumper,
if you replace the CIA with the Paladins, eg, his propensity to Jump
to the library when startled, abusive father, starting his career
in NYC with a bank heist, etc.
I'm unware of any adaptation of the film in the usual sense, of
being the same scenes and such as the film had; the closest being
the original Jumper, which pre-dated the movie by quite a few years.
Which he didn't update to match the film, which I consider a good thing,
since the film simply wasn't nearly as well done or coherent.
But maybe I don't understand what you mean by "adaptation of the Jumper film".
The amazon review for J:GS sez:
Fleshing out backstory for the upcoming motion picture Jumper (based
on Gould's 1992 debut novel of the same name), this breakneck-paced
SF adventure revolves around a character created specifically for
the film. Griffin O'Conner, a precocious nine-year-old jumper (a
person with the power to self-teleport), becomes the target of a
ruthless cabal hell-bent on killing him.
Jeff Stehman
>
> * Actually, that's not accurate. What happened was his old Secular
> Humanist Revivals got mentioned in passing. Anyone know exactly
> when he stopped doing those?
Not quite the same thing, but I sent him a check for a copy of the tape
(per instructions on a friend's tape) back in 1992. He returned the
check, so he wasn't selling the tapes at that time. To the best of my
recollection, he did not include a note as to why. Could have been out,
could have been done.
--Jeff Stehman
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Jim Butcher's career has been dominated by Harry Dresden. He's written
> the Codex Alera books and some other stuff as well,
I don't think he fits; Dresden may get recommended more, but I think
Alera gets more actual discussion.
Brust, Tolkien, and Mercedes Lackey seem to be good fits.
--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful James Nicoll
>declared:
>> The Greating Floating Orson Scott Card Flamewar drifted
>> across my LJ* but I don't want to talk about that. What I do want
>> to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their
>> very first novels.
>>
>> Example One: Orson Scott Card, whose orginal novella "Ender's Game"
>> came out 32 years ago. He's still doing ENDER material, although I
>> will admit he finds time for other stuff.
>>
>> Examples Two: Steven Gould. His JUMPER came out in 1992. Between 1992
>> and 2000, he did four unrelated novels but all (which admittedly is
>> the same as "both") his 21st novels have been JUMPER-related.
>>
>> Are there any other examples?
>>
>
>Mary Shelley -- she never got around to writing a sequel to
>Frankenstein, but she did cash in with an expanded edition, and
>that's pretty much all she's known for outside of academics and
>genre fans.
The obvious problem here is time compression. All Mary Shelley is
generally known for Now is Frankenstein. In her lifetime, she was a
successful author with Frankenstein just being the first of multiple
successful (and unrelated to each other) books. By that standard, L. Frank
Baum qualifies, since all he is really known for Now is Oz, while in his
lifetime he had four succesful series,two of which were successful enough
to be continued after his death, and one series (Aunt Jane's Nieces) was
actually outselling the Oz books (which were still very strong sellers)
during his last years.
You could probably toss in Edgar Rice Burroughs in the same category.
>And a non-SF example, there's Joseph Heller -- he wrote Catch 22,
>then a bunch of stuff what nobody cared, then a sequel to Catch 22
>that people were interested in for about five minutes, then he died.
It's probably stretching the meaning of 'a bunch' to say he wrote a bunch
of other stuff. Heller was the exact opposite of a prolific writer. It
took him several years to write a novel From 1953 when he started Catch-22
until his death at the end of 1999 (46 years) he wrote 7 novels.
--
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
(Bene Gesserit)
Kurt Busiek
> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>
>> Jim Butcher's career has been dominated by Harry Dresden. He's written
>> the Codex Alera books and some other stuff as well,
>
> I don't think he fits; Dresden may get recommended more, but I think
> Alera gets more actual discussion.
If "gets discussion" is one of the criteria, I missed it.
I've also seen more discussion of the Dresden books, but haven't been
tracking it.
kdb
Konrad Gaertner
>
> On 2009-11-30 13:53:45 -0800, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
>
> > Kurt Busiek wrote:
> >>
> >> Jim Butcher's career has been dominated by Harry Dresden. He's written
> >> the Codex Alera books and some other stuff as well,
> >
> > I don't think he fits; Dresden may get recommended more, but I think
> > Alera gets more actual discussion.
>
> If "gets discussion" is one of the criteria, I missed it.
James said "dominated", which makes me think of authors like Asprin,
Pratchett, and Jordan (though their main series don't include their
first novels).
> I've also seen more discussion of the Dresden books, but haven't been
> tracking it.
And my impressions may be due to Wayne's frequent quoting from the
books.
Robert Bannister
Feist.
--
Rob Bannister
Kurt Busiek
> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>
>> On 2009-11-30 13:53:45 -0800, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
>>
>>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Jim Butcher's career has been dominated by Harry Dresden. He's written
>>>> the Codex Alera books and some other stuff as well,
>>>
>>> I don't think he fits; Dresden may get recommended more, but I think
>>> Alera gets more actual discussion.
>>
>> If "gets discussion" is one of the criteria, I missed it.
>
> James said "dominated", which makes me think of authors like Asprin,
> Pratchett, and Jordan (though their main series don't include their
> first novels).
He also used Orson Scott Card as an example. Card's done (and is still
doing) a ton of non-Ender stuff, but is still turning out sequelia to
his first novel, and is best known for that series.
I'd say the same description applies to Butcher, except that Butcher
hasn't done as much "other stuff" as Card has.
David DeLaney
Except he _is_, now, but wants it Not To Be Shelved With Teh SF because of
cooties or some such. Not sure James is looking for authors who haven't
gotten -around- to writing anything that's not in their first novel's
conceptual space yet - Sword of Truth took eleventeen books to finish, after
all.
(Today's bookstore visit let me buy White Witch,_Black Curse in paperback ...
but NOT Princeps' Fury, because it didn't come OUT in paperback, it came out
in Very Small Trade Paperback instead. So I'll have to wait a whole nother
year to read that, and a year after THAT before I can buy the last book in
the series. Sigh.)
Wayne Throop
: And my impressions may be due to Wayne's frequent quoting from the
: books.
Well then, clearly in the interests of equal time...
"I defy you. I name you Nihilus Invidia, Invidia of Nusquam,
traitor to the Crown, the Realm, and her people.
And before I leave this place, I *will* kill you."
--- Isana to Invidia (formerly High Lady of Aquitaine)
in First Lord's Fury
See also, some of the tropes of the series:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CodexAlera
But since he can't rely on furies, Tavi uses something
that many of his countrymen fail to utilize: his brain.
Dimensional Traveler
Sword of Truth series?
Splicer
> Are there any other examples?
>
Raymond Feist has only written one novel that is not related to his
Midekemia books: Faerie Tale.
Mike Schilling
> The Greating Floating Orson Scott Card Flamewar drifted
> across my LJ* but I don't want to talk about that. What I do want
> to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their
> very first novels.
Brust. He's done lots of good stuff, but what people want are more
Vlad books.
Bujold. She's done one other great book, but what people remember
with real fondness are the Vorkosiverse books.
Varley, in the sense that nothing else he does lives up to the early
Eight World stories. The Ophiuci Hotline is in many ways still his
best novel.
Leiber? His first story and his last one [1] were both Fafhrd and the
Gray Mouser.
1. Or damned near; it's difficult to tell from ISFDB where the stories
he actually finished end.
Jack Bohn
>>JK Rowling is the only one that comes to mind at the moment.[1]
>>If others present themselves, I'll pop back.
>>
>>Tony
>>[1] Unless Cordwainer Smith counts, but I don't think he fits what
>> you're thinking. Iain M Banks alone (re: Consider Phlebas/the
>> Culture) would seem to work, but ignoring all the non-"M" output
>> is rigging things.
>
>I don't know why neither of them feels right (maybe it's the relative
>lack of other settings) - wait, I think I do - it's not the reuse of
>a setting, it's the reuse of one character or a small set of characters
>(Ender and his buds, that guy from JUMPER). Smith and Banks generally
>didn't reuse protagonists (C'Mell aside).
>
>I did think of another possible example: Isaac Asimov. In the last
>decade of his career, what his publishers really wanted from him was
>more Robot and more Foundation books, especially Foundation. Of course,
>being the writing machine that he was, Asimov managed to fit in eleventy
>dozen Norby books, among other things.
Well, if we're going early work rather than insisting on First,
Frank Herbert takes it hands down.
Spider Robinson's first sale was a Callahan's.
--
-Jack
Gerry Quinn
> Kurt Busiek wrote:
> >
> > On 2009-11-30 13:53:45 -0800, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
> >
> > > Kurt Busiek wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Jim Butcher's career has been dominated by Harry Dresden. He's written
> > >> the Codex Alera books and some other stuff as well,
> > >
> > > I don't think he fits; Dresden may get recommended more, but I think
> > > Alera gets more actual discussion.
> >
> > If "gets discussion" is one of the criteria, I missed it.
>
> James said "dominated", which makes me think of authors like Asprin,
> Pratchett, and Jordan (though their main series don't include their
> first novels).
The late Robert Holdstock is probably at least marginally in this
category; the series starting with _Mythago Wood_ was a large portion
of his output, the work he was best known for, and sustained over many
years (and his last novel was in this series).
- Gerry Quinn
Stewart Robert Hinsley
writes
>On 2009-11-30 15:34:36 -0800, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
>
>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>> On 2009-11-30 13:53:45 -0800, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com>
>>>said:
>>>
>>>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>>>> Jim Butcher's career has been dominated by Harry Dresden. He's
>>>>>written
>>>>> the Codex Alera books and some other stuff as well,
>>>> I don't think he fits; Dresden may get recommended more, but I
>>>>think
>>>> Alera gets more actual discussion.
>>> If "gets discussion" is one of the criteria, I missed it.
>> James said "dominated", which makes me think of authors like Asprin,
>> Pratchett, and Jordan (though their main series don't include their
>> first novels).
>
>He also used Orson Scott Card as an example. Card's done (and is still
>doing) a ton of non-Ender stuff, but is still turning out sequelia to
>his first novel, and is best known for that series.
Except that Card's first novel wasn't "Ender's Game". "Songmaster" and
"Hart's Hope" are earlier. So are "Hot Sleep" and "A Planet Called
Treason", but I'm not sure whether they're novels.
>
>I'd say the same description applies to Butcher, except that Butcher
>hasn't done as much "other stuff" as Card has.
>
>kdb
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
Remus Shepherd
> : Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com>
> : Not sure that Steven Gould belongs in this category. He negotiated
> : with the movie studio to write the adaptation of the Jumper film, and he
> : also wrote a sequel to Jumper in order to capitalize on the movie.
> I don't think so. The sequel is "Reflex", which is set in the same
> continuity as the original "Jumper". The "adaptation of the Jumper
> film" (ie, "Jumper: Griffin's Story") wasn't really an adaptation of
> the film, but a *pre*quel to the film story, and the film is a sort of
> odd parallel-universe David Rice story, incompatible with either Jumper
> or Reflex, in both the limitations and fx of the Jump process, and in
> story events.
I haven't read any of the Jumper books, but I had the good fortune to
meet with Steven Gould and saw a short presentation he gave about his
experience with Hollywood. He admitted that J:GS was spawned as a result
of the movie deal; he had it in his contract that he would write any
adaptations of the movie, and that's what he chose to create.
I don't remember him saying that Reflex was written as a result of the
movie deal also, but the timing is right -- it would have been written
around 2002, just when the movie rights would have been sold (and before he
knew how much they would screw with the story). And Steven is the kind of
guy to try and capitalize on a windfall deal like that.
So...I'm certain that J:GS was intentionally written to make the most of
an opportunity, and I suspect (but am not certain) that Reflex was as well.
James Nicoll
Stewart Robert Hinsley <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <hf1mar$nk3$1...@solani.org>, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com>
>writes
>>On 2009-11-30 15:34:36 -0800, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
>>
>>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>>> On 2009-11-30 13:53:45 -0800, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com>
>>>>said:
>>>>
>>>>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>>>>> Jim Butcher's career has been dominated by Harry Dresden. He's
>>>>>>written
>>>>>> the Codex Alera books and some other stuff as well,
>>>>> I don't think he fits; Dresden may get recommended more, but I
>>>>>think
>>>>> Alera gets more actual discussion.
>>>> If "gets discussion" is one of the criteria, I missed it.
>>> James said "dominated", which makes me think of authors like Asprin,
>>> Pratchett, and Jordan (though their main series don't include their
>>> first novels).
>>
>>He also used Orson Scott Card as an example. Card's done (and is still
>>doing) a ton of non-Ender stuff, but is still turning out sequelia to
>>his first novel, and is best known for that series.
>
>Except that Card's first novel wasn't "Ender's Game". "Songmaster" and
>"Hart's Hope" are earlier. So are "Hot Sleep" and "A Planet Called
>Treason", but I'm not sure whether they're novels.
"Ender's Game", the novella, was his first published work, though.
I remember it fondly. Now I wonder why even at 16 it didn't occur to me to
be a tad concerned about a story where the white hats manipulate a kid
into committing genocide.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Kurt Busiek
I own a copy of MYTHAGO WOOD -- loved the title, loved the cover, loved
the idea -- but when I got it I didn't get very far into it, and can't
recall why. I'll have to dig it out and give it another shot.
Kurt Busiek
<{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> said:
> In message <hf1mar$nk3$1...@solani.org>, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> writes
>> On 2009-11-30 15:34:36 -0800, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
>>
>>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>>> On 2009-11-30 13:53:45 -0800, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
>>>>
>>>>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>>>>> Jim Butcher's career has been dominated by Harry Dresden. He's written
>>>>>> the Codex Alera books and some other stuff as well,
>>>>> I don't think he fits; Dresden may get recommended more, but I think
>>>>> Alera gets more actual discussion.
>>>> If "gets discussion" is one of the criteria, I missed it.
>>> James said "dominated", which makes me think of authors like Asprin,
>>> Pratchett, and Jordan (though their main series don't include their
>>> first novels).
>>
>> He also used Orson Scott Card as an example. Card's done (and is still
>> doing) a ton of non-Ender stuff, but is still turning out sequelia to
>> his first novel, and is best known for that series.
>
> Except that Card's first novel wasn't "Ender's Game". "Songmaster" and
> "Hart's Hope" are earlier. So are "Hot Sleep" and "A Planet Called
> Treason", but I'm not sure whether they're novels.
That, you'd have to take up with James, I guess. I'm not conversant
with Card's emergence on the scene.
Kurt Busiek
Given how good REFLEX is, if the movie deal caused it, that's one thing
to be glad of the movie for...
David DeLaney
>David DeLaney wrote:
>> Except he _is_, now, but wants it Not To Be Shelved With Teh SF because of
>> cooties or some such. Not sure James is looking for authors who haven't
>> gotten -around- to writing anything that's not in their first novel's
>> conceptual space yet - Sword of Truth took eleventeen books to finish, after
>> all.
>>
>> (Today's bookstore visit let me buy White Witch,_Black Curse in paperback ...
>> but NOT Princeps' Fury, because it didn't come OUT in paperback, it came out
>> in Very Small Trade Paperback instead. So I'll have to wait a whole nother
>> year to read that, and a year after THAT before I can buy the last book in
>> the series. Sigh.)
>
>Wait a minute, are you saying you actually _want_ to read all of the
>Sword of Truth series?
No, I'm not saying anything like that. Instead, I saw on this here newsgroup
that he's trying to start a different series, and have seen the first volume
of it in the stores, and saw here that he wants it over with mainstream
fiction, which apparently it really isn't.
(I _have_ read all of the Sword of Truth series, but will not do so again.
It's a pity; there was a possibly-interesting magic system, and some plot,
buried in all that.)
Chuk Goodin
>:: I've also seen more discussion of the Dresden books
>
>: And my impressions may be due to Wayne's frequent quoting from the
>: books.
>
>Well then, clearly in the interests of equal time...
>
> "I defy you. I name you Nihilus Invidia, Invidia of Nusquam,
> traitor to the Crown, the Realm, and her people.
> And before I leave this place, I *will* kill you."
> --- Isana to Invidia (formerly High Lady of Aquitaine)
> in First Lord's Fury
Is that even out in paperback yet? You seem to have plenty of material to
quote from, can you keep it to stuff that I've already read? Thanks.
--
chuk
Chuk Goodin
>>> Except he _is_, now, but wants it Not To Be Shelved With Teh SF because of
>>> cooties or some such. Not sure James is looking for authors who haven't
>>> gotten -around- to writing anything that's not in their first novel's
>>> conceptual space yet - Sword of Truth took eleventeen books to finish, after
>>> all.
>>>
>>> (Today's bookstore visit let me buy White Witch,_Black Curse in paperback ...
>>> but NOT Princeps' Fury, because it didn't come OUT in paperback, it came out
>>> in Very Small Trade Paperback instead. So I'll have to wait a whole nother
>>> year to read that, and a year after THAT before I can buy the last book in
>>> the series. Sigh.)
>>
>>Wait a minute, are you saying you actually _want_ to read all of the
>>Sword of Truth series?
>
>No, I'm not saying anything like that. Instead, I saw on this here newsgroup
>that he's trying to start a different series, and have seen the first volume
>of it in the stores, and saw here that he wants it over with mainstream
>fiction, which apparently it really isn't.
It really, really isn't. I quit the Sword of Truth stuff after two books
so I'm not sure, but the new series might even be related to it. It sort
of seemed like he was trying to write a Dean Koontz novel but with more
fantasy in it than usual.
--
chuk
David Goldfarb
Stewart Robert Hinsley <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Except that Card's first novel wasn't "Ender's Game". "Songmaster" and
>"Hart's Hope" are earlier. So are "Hot Sleep" and "A Planet Called
>Treason", but I'm not sure whether they're novels.
_Hot Sleep_ was in fact a novel, although one that was a sequel to
a series of stories (that were collected in a book called _Capitol_).
_A Planet Called Treason_ was also.
--
David Goldfarb |Seen on the marquee of a disused porn
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |theatre in New York City:
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | "What urge will save us now that sex won't?"
Chris Thompson
> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful James Nicoll declared:
>> LJ* but I don't want to talk about that. What I do want
>> to talk about are authors whose careers seem dominated by their very
>> first novels.
>>
>> came out 32 years ago. He's still doing ENDER material, although I
>> will admit he finds time for other stuff.
>>
>> Examples Two: Steven Gould. His JUMPER came out in 1992. Between 1992
>> and 2000, he did four unrelated novels but all (which admittedly is
>> the same as "both") his 21st novels have been JUMPER-related.
>>
>>
>
> Frankenstein, but she did cash in with an expanded edition, and that's
> pretty much all she's known for outside of academics and genre fans.
As it happens, I read her _The Last Man_ recently, the only work other
than _Frankenstein_ which attracts the SF classification. "Interesting"
rather than "good", IMHO, though it has its moments.
--
Chris Thompson
Email: cet1 [at] cam.ac.uk
Jesper Lauridsen
>
> He also used Orson Scott Card as an example. Card's done (and is still
> doing) a ton of non-Ender stuff, but is still turning out sequelia to
> his first novel, and is best known for that series.
>
> I'd say the same description applies to Butcher, except that Butcher
> hasn't done as much "other stuff" as Card has.
Butcher is still at the beginning of his career - his first novel was
published this decade. At the rate he's writing, there will be lots of
"other stuff".
Speaking of "other stuff": is "First Lord's Fury" the final volume in that
series?
Kurt Busiek
<rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> said:
> On 2009-12-01, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>>
>> He also used Orson Scott Card as an example. Card's done (and is still
>> doing) a ton of non-Ender stuff, but is still turning out sequelia to
>> his first novel, and is best known for that series.
>>
>> I'd say the same description applies to Butcher, except that Butcher
>> hasn't done as much "other stuff" as Card has.
>
> Butcher is still at the beginning of his career - his first novel was
> published this decade. At the rate he's writing, there will be lots of
> "other stuff".
I certainly hope so. But for hte purposes of James's question, we
gotta go with what's there now, rather than what might be there in the
future.
> Speaking of "other stuff": is "First Lord's Fury" the final volume in that
> series?
I don't know. It's sitting on my bedside bookshelf waiting for me to
start reading, but I haven't got there.
I'd been assuming, from the titling convention, that it would be, but I
suppose if the series is popular and Butcher's enjoying it, he can
always keep going, and modify his approach to titles. I do hope it's
at least the end of the story, and brings things to a satisfying
conclusion, even if new stuff kicks up in a subsequent novel.
Wayne Throop
:: that series?
: Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com>
: I don't know. It's sitting on my bedside bookshelf waiting for me to
: start reading, but I haven't got there.
Supposedly it *is* the last in the series, and it certainly ties things up
without all that many loose ends (though of course not zero, and some of
the things tied up occur offscreen and are only aluded to frustratingly
obscurely). AIUI, Butcher has said that's it, but he may return to the
setting with a separate series involving a Cane and a Marat who are
chala to each other, at some indefinite time in the vaporous future.
"Vaporous future" both wrt in-story and real-world, I suppose.
: I'd been assuming, from the titling convention, that it would be, but
: I suppose if the series is popular and Butcher's enjoying it, he can
: always keep going, and modify his approach to titles.
Well, he *could* have just kept going using the same title schema
(more or less), since presumably he could switch to follow another
character, possibly due to <spoiler>, or by <spoiler>.
"I AM STILL THIRSTY. WHO WILL DRINK WITH ME?" --- Varg
Kurt Busiek
> :: Speaking of "other stuff": is "First Lord's Fury" the final volume in
> :: that series?
>
> : Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com>
> : I don't know. It's sitting on my bedside bookshelf waiting for me to
> : start reading, but I haven't got there.
>
> Supposedly it *is* the last in the series, and it certainly ties things up
> without all that many loose ends (though of course not zero, and some of
> the things tied up occur offscreen and are only aluded to frustratingly
> obscurely). AIUI, Butcher has said that's it, but he may return to the
> setting with a separate series involving a Cane and a Marat who are
> chala to each other, at some indefinite time in the vaporous future.
> "Vaporous future" both wrt in-story and real-world, I suppose.
>
> : I'd been assuming, from the titling convention, that it would be, but
> : I suppose if the series is popular and Butcher's enjoying it, he can
> : always keep going, and modify his approach to titles.
>
> Well, he *could* have just kept going using the same title schema
> (more or less), since presumably he could switch to follow another
> character,
Which would be a change in titling convention, just not an
immediately-obvious one.
kdb
> possibly due to <spoiler>, or by <spoiler>.
>
> "I AM STILL THIRSTY. WHO WILL DRINK WITH ME?" --- Varg
>
>
> Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
W. Citoan
>
> "Ender's Game", the novella, was his first published work, though.
Technically, it wasn't. "Ender's Game" was published in August 1977.
"Gert Fram" was published in July 1977. However, it was published under
a pen name and I don't think it's SF (at least the descriptions don't
sound like it is) so for purposes of your query, I think he counts.
- W. Citoan
--
His mind his kingdom, and his will his law.
-- Cowper
tkma...@yahoo.co.uk
> Sean O'Hara wrote:
...
>> Mary Shelley -- she never got around to writing a sequel to
>> Frankenstein, but she did cash in with an expanded edition, and that's
>> pretty much all she's known for outside of academics and genre fans.
>
> As it happens, I read her _The Last Man_ recently, the only work other
> than _Frankenstein_ which attracts the SF classification. "Interesting"
> rather than "good", IMHO, though it has its moments.
Responding to "the only work other than _Frankenstein_ which attracts
the SF classification": I'm not very well read in Shelley, but here are
a couple of others that would get the tag too (but these are shorts):
"The Mortal Immortal": It's no fun to be an immortal among the mortals.
<http://www.wondersmith.com/scifi/mortal.htm>
"Transformation" - this is more on fantasy/magic line - hazards of
exchanging your body with an evil magician.
<http://www.unexploredworlds.com/RealPulp/htm/rpulp11.htm>
--
"McNear had responded to the inexplicable as people often do: he had
ignored its existence. An excellent way to maintain sanity."
- "Practice" by Verge Foray
<http://variety-sf.blogspot.com/2009/10/howard-l-myers-practice-as-by-verge.html>
William December Starr
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:
> "Ender's Game", the novella, was his first published work, though.
> I remember it fondly. Now I wonder why even at 16 it didn't occur
> to me to be a tad concerned about a story where the white hats
> manipulate a kid into committing genocide.
I don't recall having the impression, when I read the story, that
they were "white hats," or that the author wanted me to think that
they were.
-- wds
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
They were grayish hats. They were the good guys in the sense that they
were protecting the human race. They weren't very NICE guys in that they
were willing to do anything necessary (by their estimation) to achieve
that goal, which included getting a child trained to be a military
genius and a genocide. But hey, omelets, eggs.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Mike Schilling
One was light gray (did it, but felt guilty abput it) and the other
charcoal gray (no qualms whatsoever.)
Robert A. Woodward
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> William December Starr wrote:
> > In article <hf3c2p$c3a$2...@reader1.panix.com>,
> > jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:
> >
> >> "Ender's Game", the novella, was his first published work, though.
> >> I remember it fondly. Now I wonder why even at 16 it didn't occur
> >> to me to be a tad concerned about a story where the white hats
> >> manipulate a kid into committing genocide.
> >
> > I don't recall having the impression, when I read the story, that
> > they were "white hats," or that the author wanted me to think that
> > they were.
>
> They were grayish hats.
They had yellow hats; they are soldiers, they should be doing their
own dirty work and not palm it off to the unsuspecting.
--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>
William December Starr
"Robert A. Woodward" <robe...@drizzle.com> said:
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> William December Starr wrote:
>>> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:
>>>
>>>> "Ender's Game", the novella, was his first published work,
>>>> though. I remember it fondly. Now I wonder why even at 16 it
>>>> didn't occur to me to be a tad concerned about a story where
>>>> the white hats manipulate a kid into committing genocide.
>>>
>>> I don't recall having the impression, when I read the story, that
>>> they were "white hats," or that the author wanted me to think that
>>> they were.
>>
>> They were grayish hats.
>
> They had yellow hats; they are soldiers, they should be doing
> their own dirty work and not palm it off to the unsuspecting.
Iirc, they honestly believed that the only way to do their own dirty
work _was_ to palm it off to the unsuspecting.
-- wds
DouhetSukd
so.
He apparently has a fantasy series, but that doesn't count ;-)
William Gibson. Nothing's been up to Burning Chrome + Neuromancer
level, save perhaps Pattern Recognition. Yup, I know it's harsh
lumping him with OSC, but he's not been delivering. Ask anyone what
Gibson has written and they'll either ? or quote the big N.
(flamebait here).
I didn't realize Ender was OSC's first book. I recall reading another
book of his, featuring a princess and her retainer/trainer, killing
dozens of assassins (17 IIRC) + all sorts of other too-hot-to-be-true
acts. That turned me off, I assumed it was earlier and that he had
just continued having a bad case of super-character-syndrome in Ender.
W. Citoan
>
> I didn't realize Ender was OSC's first book. I recall reading another
> book of his, featuring a princess and her retainer/trainer, killing
> dozens of assassins (17 IIRC) + all sorts of other too-hot-to-be-true
> acts. That turned me off, I assumed it was earlier and that he had
> just continued having a bad case of super-character-syndrome in Ender.
Ender's Game was not his first book. It was his second published short
story (first genre one). As a novel, it was his fourth per the ISFDB.
- W. Citoan
--
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue about
who killed who.
-- Monty Python
Robert A. Woodward
David Johnston
Orson Scott Card is fond of the theory that people who don't know what
they are doing are going to be able to think of ideas that haven't
been thought before. However in this case weren't they genetically
engineered or something?
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
They were carefully selected and trained to nigh-destruction, and Ender
himself was the best of the selectees. From all over the world.
Gerry Quinn
860e9e...@v7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, douhe...@gmail.com says...
> David Zindell. Neverness was superb. Neverness 2,3,4... much less
> so.
>
> He apparently has a fantasy series, but that doesn't count ;-)
I think it should, as an allied genre .
> William Gibson. Nothing's been up to Burning Chrome + Neuromancer
> level, save perhaps Pattern Recognition. Yup, I know it's harsh
> lumping him with OSC, but he's not been delivering. Ask anyone what
> Gibson has written and they'll either ? or quote the big N.
> (flamebait here).
Nobody is criticising Card's writing here. The thread relates so
series set in the same universe that seem to dominate an author's
output. So long as they are good enough to be considered significant
I wuld agree that _Neuromancer_ is probably Gibson's best[*]. But I
think the series was only three books long, so I don't think it counts
in the context of the thread - he has written more outside it.
[*] If collaborations count, _The Difference Engine_ was pretty good.
Though I feel there is more of Sterling than Gibson in it.
- Gerry Quinn
Jesper Lauridsen
> On 2009-12-02 08:19:02 -0800, Jesper Lauridsen
><rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> said:
>
>> On 2009-12-01, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> He also used Orson Scott Card as an example. Card's done (and is still
>>> doing) a ton of non-Ender stuff, but is still turning out sequelia to
>>> his first novel, and is best known for that series.
>>>
>>> I'd say the same description applies to Butcher, except that Butcher
>>> hasn't done as much "other stuff" as Card has.
>>
>> Butcher is still at the beginning of his career - his first novel was
>> published this decade. At the rate he's writing, there will be lots of
>> "other stuff".
>
> I certainly hope so. But for hte purposes of James's question, we
> gotta go with what's there now, rather than what might be there in the
> future.
Then you might as well include new writers, who only have one novel.
Given that Butcher's first novel was, by design, the first in an
open-ended series, I can't see how he could have done more to escape
this list, than he has. If the Codex Alera series had been ignored
by readers you would have a strong case, but I don't think it has. Not
going by discussion here, amazon ranking by 'Bestselling' or personal
experience. I was in a bookstore yesterday and in the limited space
available to foreign language paperbacks, there was room for the entire
series (Dresden was represented by 5-6 volumes).
Kurt Busiek
<rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> said:
> On 2009-12-02, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>> On 2009-12-02 08:19:02 -0800, Jesper Lauridsen
>> <rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> said:
>>
>>> On 2009-12-01, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> He also used Orson Scott Card as an example. Card's done (and is still
>>>> doing) a ton of non-Ender stuff, but is still turning out sequelia to
>>>> his first novel, and is best known for that series.
>>>>
>>>> I'd say the same description applies to Butcher, except that Butcher
>>>> hasn't done as much "other stuff" as Card has.
>>>
>>> Butcher is still at the beginning of his career - his first novel was
>>> published this decade. At the rate he's writing, there will be lots of
>>> "other stuff".
>>
>> I certainly hope so. But for hte purposes of James's question, we
>> gotta go with what's there now, rather than what might be there in the
>> future.
>
> Then you might as well include new writers, who only have one novel.
You might, but since James's two examples were:
"Example One: Orson Scott Card, whose orginal novella "Ender's Game"
came out 32 years ago. He's still doing ENDER material, although I
will admit he finds time for other stuff.
"Examples Two: Steven Gould. His JUMPER came out in 1992. Between 1992
and 2000, he did four unrelated novels but all (which admittedly is
the same as "both") his 21st novels have been JUMPER-related."
...I think the idea comes across that he's asking for examples of a
years-long body of work.
So to my mind, series authors who've been around a while and are
primarily known for their first (and continuing) series would qualify,
as I see it, since that describes Card pretty well. Gould's Jumper
books weren't even a series until REFLEX came out, so his career has
been far less dominated by his first novel than Btcher's has by his.
> Given that Butcher's first novel was, by design, the first in an
> open-ended series, I can't see how he could have done more to escape
> this list, than he has.
I can think of a few things he could have done, had he wanted to escape
such a list, but on the one hand, I don't think he was trying to escape
such a list -- I think he set out to build a strong series, not to
downplay series appeal -- and second, I don't think there's any
inherent criticism in being on such a list, so I don't see why it would
be important for him to escape it.
> If the Codex Alera series had been ignored
> by readers you would have a strong case, but I don't think it has.
You may be interpreting the word "dominated" differently than I do, or
than I see in the examples James gives.
Has Card's other work been ignored by readers? I don't see evidence of that.
Bu by all means, if you want to suggest singleton authors, or limit
your choices to those authors whose early work so dominates their
career that readers ignore the other stuff they've done, feel free to
suggest some names. Maybe they'll be what James is looking for.
Based on the examples he gives, I wouldn't think so, but if you
disagree, don't let me stop you.