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Time travel comic strip follies
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Joseph Nebus
Feb 16, 2013, 11:56:03 PM2/16/13
to
... in the strip _Randolph Itch, 2 am_ today:
http://www.gocomics.com/randolphitch/2013/02/16
I wonder if the time machine from the 1960 movie is sufficently
iconic that it can be understood as a time machine just on appearance.
--
http://nebusresearch.wordpress.com/ Joseph Nebus
Current Entry: Reading the Comics, February 13, 2013 http://wp.me/p1RYhY-q9
--------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
jack....@gmail.com
Feb 17, 2013, 9:28:42 AM2/17/13
to
It appears the author has hedged his bets, with the first words being, "It's a time machine."
(Myself, would have divided the disk in back into twelve slices to evoke a clock face, but I'm having doubts about my judgement. I'd a whole essay prepared on how rotation is a good visual clue for time-travel, tying into the cycles and epicycles as made explicit in Superman: The Movie. A moment pause reminded me so many machines use rotating parts that it's used to represent less obvious working, from compters spinning up tape drive to starships revving up spacedrives.)
--
-Jack
(Myself, would have divided the disk in back into twelve slices to evoke a clock face, but I'm having doubts about my judgement. I'd a whole essay prepared on how rotation is a good visual clue for time-travel, tying into the cycles and epicycles as made explicit in Superman: The Movie. A moment pause reminded me so many machines use rotating parts that it's used to represent less obvious working, from compters spinning up tape drive to starships revving up spacedrives.)
--
-Jack
Derek Lyons
Feb 17, 2013, 11:25:11 AM2/17/13
to
nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
> I wonder if the time machine from the 1960 movie is sufficently
>iconic that it can be understood as a time machine just on appearance.
I'm thinking yes, as it certainly shows up often enough.
> I wonder if the time machine from the 1960 movie is sufficently
>iconic that it can be understood as a time machine just on appearance.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
ppint. at pplay
Feb 17, 2013, 10:27:34 AM2/17/13
to
- hi; in article,
<31d04d7c-3d06-4369...@googlegroups.com>,
in this day of the digital jack....@gmail.com reflected:
strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"c'est magnifique - mais ce n'est pas l'heure."
with apologies to marshal pierre bosquet,
observer of the charge of the light brigade at balaclava
<31d04d7c-3d06-4369...@googlegroups.com>,
in this day of the digital jack....@gmail.com reflected:
>
>(Myself, would have divided the disk in back into twelve slices to evoke a
>clock face, but I'm having doubts about my judgement. I'd a whole essay pr
>epared on how rotation is a good visual clue for time-travel, tying into th
>e cycles and epicycles as made explicit in Superman: The Movie. A moment p
>ause reminded me so many machines use rotating parts that it's used to repr
>esent less obvious working, from compters spinning up tape drive to starshi
>ps revving up spacedrives.)
- indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
>(Myself, would have divided the disk in back into twelve slices to evoke a
>clock face, but I'm having doubts about my judgement. I'd a whole essay pr
>epared on how rotation is a good visual clue for time-travel, tying into th
>e cycles and epicycles as made explicit in Superman: The Movie. A moment p
>ause reminded me so many machines use rotating parts that it's used to repr
>esent less obvious working, from compters spinning up tape drive to starshi
>ps revving up spacedrives.)
strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"c'est magnifique - mais ce n'est pas l'heure."
with apologies to marshal pierre bosquet,
observer of the charge of the light brigade at balaclava
Konrad Gaertner
Feb 17, 2013, 12:53:06 PM2/17/13
to
"ppint. at pplay" wrote:
>
> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less
>
> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
ambiguous (and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll
ppint. at pplay
Feb 17, 2013, 5:35:59 PM2/17/13
to
- hi; in article, <51211902...@tx.rr.com>,
kgae...@tx.rr.com "Konrad Gaertner" objected:
fewer kids're wearing watches these days? i prefer the style and
the ease of approximation given by the analogue clock to the false
promise of minute accuracy in the precision of the digital display,
but most kids are growing up with the digital clock of their mobile
phone; and there are far fewer public clocks in towns & cities than
ever there were (even counting the ones no longer maintained) - and
some of the declining total're nowadays newfangled digital displays.
- general kitchen timers are still mostly rotary, sfaics; but clocks
and timers built into cookers, ovens and microwaves're almost always
digital; and very, very few use an hourglass - aside of egg-timers.
- love. ppint.
will be sufficiently accurate for poetry"
- charles babbage, writing to correct the second half of tennyson's line,
"every moment dies a man; every moment one is born"
kgae...@tx.rr.com "Konrad Gaertner" objected:
> "ppint. at pplay" wrote:
>> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
>> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
>> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
>> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
>> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
>> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
>
>I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less ambiguous
>(and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
- for thee and me, maybe; but have you not noticed that fewer and
>> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
>> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
>> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
>> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
>> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
>> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
>
>I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less ambiguous
>(and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
fewer kids're wearing watches these days? i prefer the style and
the ease of approximation given by the analogue clock to the false
promise of minute accuracy in the precision of the digital display,
but most kids are growing up with the digital clock of their mobile
phone; and there are far fewer public clocks in towns & cities than
ever there were (even counting the ones no longer maintained) - and
some of the declining total're nowadays newfangled digital displays.
- general kitchen timers are still mostly rotary, sfaics; but clocks
and timers built into cookers, ovens and microwaves're almost always
digital; and very, very few use an hourglass - aside of egg-timers.
- love. ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"but i believe the figure of one and one sixteenth
--
will be sufficiently accurate for poetry"
- charles babbage, writing to correct the second half of tennyson's line,
"every moment dies a man; every moment one is born"
Howard Brazee
Feb 17, 2013, 6:04:34 PM2/17/13
to
On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:35:59 -0000 gmt, v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk
("ppint. at pplay") wrote:
> - for thee and me, maybe; but have you not noticed that fewer and
> fewer kids're wearing watches these days? i prefer the style and
> the ease of approximation given by the analogue clock to the false
> promise of minute accuracy in the precision of the digital display,
> but most kids are growing up with the digital clock of their mobile
> phone; and there are far fewer public clocks in towns & cities than
> ever there were (even counting the ones no longer maintained) - and
> some of the declining total're nowadays newfangled digital displays.
I never wore jewelry and I'm an old fogey. I sweat under jewelry and
("ppint. at pplay") wrote:
> - for thee and me, maybe; but have you not noticed that fewer and
> fewer kids're wearing watches these days? i prefer the style and
> the ease of approximation given by the analogue clock to the false
> promise of minute accuracy in the precision of the digital display,
> but most kids are growing up with the digital clock of their mobile
> phone; and there are far fewer public clocks in towns & cities than
> ever there were (even counting the ones no longer maintained) - and
> some of the declining total're nowadays newfangled digital displays.
find it uncomfortable. For a while I had a pocket watch, but now am
happy with a phone for when I need to tell time when there isn't a
clock around.
I also don't like leather seats, rubber insoles in shoes, nor going
without socks. I don't seem to be sweating much, but I stick to
things when my skin doesn't breathe.
I'm obviously married to people who might notice my lack of a ring.
--
Anybody who agrees with one side all of the time or disagrees with the
other side all of the time is equally guilty of letting others do
their thinking for them.
Rod Speed
Feb 17, 2013, 8:26:22 PM2/17/13
to
ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
> Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote
>> ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
>>> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
>>> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
>>> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
>>> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
>>> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
>>> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
>> I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less
>> ambiguous (and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
> - for thee and me, maybe; but have you not noticed
> that fewer and fewer kids're wearing watches these days?
Because they almost all have mobile/cell phones
that can tell even a dinosaur like you the time.
> i prefer the style and the ease of approximation given by the analogue
> clock
Any decent smartphone can show you the time any way
you like for free when you already have the smartphone.
> to the false promise of minute accuracy
Nothing false about it when it�s a mobile/cell phone.
> in the precision of the digital display,
I much prefer the digital display myself, and I am older than you are.
> but most kids are growing up with the digital clock of their mobile phone;
And can use any type of display of the time they
like on any even half decent smartphone, for free.
> and there are far fewer public clocks in towns & cities than ever there
> were
Sure, because almost everyone has something much better available now.
> (even counting the ones no longer maintained) - and some
> of the declining total're nowadays newfangled digital displays.
You could do the decent thing and set fire to yourself in protest, or
sumfin.
> - general kitchen timers are still mostly rotary, sfaics; but clocks and
> timers built into cookers, ovens and microwaves're almost always
> digital; and very, very few use an hourglass - aside of egg-timers.
And you don�t see too many using their sundial in the kitchen either for
some reason.
> Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote
>> ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
>>> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
>>> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
>>> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
>>> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
>>> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
>>> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
>> I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less
>> ambiguous (and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
> - for thee and me, maybe; but have you not noticed
> that fewer and fewer kids're wearing watches these days?
that can tell even a dinosaur like you the time.
> i prefer the style and the ease of approximation given by the analogue
> clock
you like for free when you already have the smartphone.
> to the false promise of minute accuracy
> in the precision of the digital display,
> but most kids are growing up with the digital clock of their mobile phone;
like on any even half decent smartphone, for free.
> and there are far fewer public clocks in towns & cities than ever there
> were
> (even counting the ones no longer maintained) - and some
> of the declining total're nowadays newfangled digital displays.
sumfin.
> - general kitchen timers are still mostly rotary, sfaics; but clocks and
> timers built into cookers, ovens and microwaves're almost always
> digital; and very, very few use an hourglass - aside of egg-timers.
some reason.
Robert Carnegie
Feb 17, 2013, 9:28:16 PM2/17/13
to
On Sunday, 17 February 2013 15:27:34 UTC, "ppint. at pplay" wrote:
> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
If you're letting in sundials, then we also have
> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
the burning candle (sometimes actually used as a clock),
the calendar spilling pages, and the Bugs-Bunny-cartoon
burning fuse for your dynamite. And, with the cuckoo
clock, clock chimes, the boomier the doomier.
And, from _The Time Machine_ book and/or movie,
the Sun itself not oozng but leaping up into the sky.
Sometimes the Moon. The whoosh of newborn galaxies
out of a symbolic animation of the Big Bang...
Robert Carnegie
Feb 17, 2013, 9:35:10 PM2/17/13
to
On Sunday, 17 February 2013 15:27:34 UTC, "ppint. at pplay" wrote:
> the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
> of time in our western culture
Oh, and the parking-meter. And, by the way,
> of time in our western culture
my digital clock truthfully promises minute-accuracy
and better, because it's radio-controlled; but many
aren't as good, and neither is much of the rest of the
world, really. So it may not "work".
Rod Speed
Feb 17, 2013, 9:53:57 PM2/17/13
to
""ppint. at pplay"" <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:20130217.152...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk...
> - hi; in article,
> <31d04d7c-3d06-4369...@googlegroups.com>,
> in this day of the digital jack....@gmail.com reflected:
>>
>>(Myself, would have divided the disk in back into twelve slices to evoke a
>>clock face, but I'm having doubts about my judgement. I'd a whole essay
>>pr
>>epared on how rotation is a good visual clue for time-travel, tying into
>>th
>>e cycles and epicycles as made explicit in Superman: The Movie. A moment
>>p
>>ause reminded me so many machines use rotating parts that it's used to
>>repr
>>esent less obvious working, from compters spinning up tape drive to
>>starshi
>>ps revving up spacedrives.)
>
> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
That�s just plain wrong. A digital clock display
> <31d04d7c-3d06-4369...@googlegroups.com>,
> in this day of the digital jack....@gmail.com reflected:
>>
>>(Myself, would have divided the disk in back into twelve slices to evoke a
>>clock face, but I'm having doubts about my judgement. I'd a whole essay
>>pr
>>epared on how rotation is a good visual clue for time-travel, tying into
>>th
>>e cycles and epicycles as made explicit in Superman: The Movie. A moment
>>p
>>ause reminded me so many machines use rotating parts that it's used to
>>repr
>>esent less obvious working, from compters spinning up tape drive to
>>starshi
>>ps revving up spacedrives.)
>
> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
does too, and so does an analog clock face too.
Tim McDaniel
Feb 18, 2013, 12:01:52 AM2/18/13
to
In article <20130217.223...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>,
access to a monitor and a mouse in a poor area but provided no
instructions. The local 7-14 year old boys sussed out how to work it
in a reasonable way just by playing / experimenting in a few weeks.
(E.g., he was amazed to see, one morning, a Word document with "I LOVE
INDIA" on it. I wrote monitor and mouse -- there was no keyboard.
The kids found Character Map and figured out how to paste text.)
Anyway, the Window "wait" symbol we call an hourglass. They called it
"Shiva's drum", because they had no idea what an "hourglass" might be.
> i prefer the style and the ease of approximation given by the
> analogue clock to the false promise of minute accuracy in the
> precision of the digital display,
"False promise"? My digital watch slows about 3 seconds per month and
I reset it from time to time (snk) from reliable sources.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> - hi; in article, <51211902...@tx.rr.com>,
> kgae...@tx.rr.com "Konrad Gaertner" objected:
> - hi; in article, <51211902...@tx.rr.com>,
> kgae...@tx.rr.com "Konrad Gaertner" objected:
>>I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less
>>ambiguous (and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
There was a fascinating article about a fellow in India set up public
>>ambiguous (and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
access to a monitor and a mouse in a poor area but provided no
instructions. The local 7-14 year old boys sussed out how to work it
in a reasonable way just by playing / experimenting in a few weeks.
(E.g., he was amazed to see, one morning, a Word document with "I LOVE
INDIA" on it. I wrote monitor and mouse -- there was no keyboard.
The kids found Character Map and figured out how to paste text.)
Anyway, the Window "wait" symbol we call an hourglass. They called it
"Shiva's drum", because they had no idea what an "hourglass" might be.
> i prefer the style and the ease of approximation given by the
> analogue clock to the false promise of minute accuracy in the
> precision of the digital display,
I reset it from time to time (snk) from reliable sources.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
Brian M. Scott
Feb 18, 2013, 12:39:13 AM2/18/13
to
On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:35:59 -0000 gmt, ""ppint. at pplay""
<v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote in
<news:20130217.223...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
I suspect that the same goes for the sundial, and possibly
even the cuckoo clock.
Brian
<v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote in
<news:20130217.223...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
even the cuckoo clock.
Brian
David Goldfarb
Feb 18, 2013, 1:28:34 AM2/18/13
to
In article <kfsck0$ou1$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
weeks later, they had hacked Android in order to turn the cameras on
(they had somehow been left off by default).
--
David Goldfarb |"Feeling smug about one's opinions is the very
goldf...@gmail.com | lifeblood of the Net."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- Dawn Friedman
Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>There was a fascinating article about a fellow in India set up public
>access to a monitor and a mouse in a poor area but provided no
>instructions. The local 7-14 year old boys sussed out how to work it
>in a reasonable way just by playing / experimenting in a few weeks.
>(E.g., he was amazed to see, one morning, a Word document with "I LOVE
>INDIA" on it. I wrote monitor and mouse -- there was no keyboard.
>The kids found Character Map and figured out how to paste text.)
Similarly, someone gave kids in Ethiopia a bunch of tablets. A few
>There was a fascinating article about a fellow in India set up public
>access to a monitor and a mouse in a poor area but provided no
>instructions. The local 7-14 year old boys sussed out how to work it
>in a reasonable way just by playing / experimenting in a few weeks.
>(E.g., he was amazed to see, one morning, a Word document with "I LOVE
>INDIA" on it. I wrote monitor and mouse -- there was no keyboard.
>The kids found Character Map and figured out how to paste text.)
weeks later, they had hacked Android in order to turn the cameras on
(they had somehow been left off by default).
--
David Goldfarb |"Feeling smug about one's opinions is the very
goldf...@gmail.com | lifeblood of the Net."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- Dawn Friedman
Brian M. Scott
Feb 18, 2013, 1:40:44 AM2/18/13
to
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 06:28:34 GMT, David Goldfarb
<gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote in
<news:MIEKn...@kithrup.com> in rec.arts.sf.written:
> In article <kfsck0$ou1$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>> There was a fascinating article about a fellow in India
>> set up public access to a monitor and a mouse in a poor
>> area but provided no instructions. The local 7-14 year
>> old boys sussed out how to work it in a reasonable way
>> just by playing / experimenting in a few weeks. (E.g.,
>> he was amazed to see, one morning, a Word document with
>> "I LOVE INDIA" on it. I wrote monitor and mouse --
>> there was no keyboard. The kids found Character Map and
>> figured out how to paste text.)
> Similarly, someone gave kids in Ethiopia a bunch of
> tablets. A few weeks later, they had hacked Android in
> order to turn the cameras on (they had somehow been left
> off by default).
Better yet:
Elaborating later on Negroponte’s hacking comment, Ed
McNierney, OLPC’s chief technology officer, said that
the kids had gotten around OLPC’s effort to freeze
desktop settings. “The kids had completely customized
the desktop—so every kids’ tablet looked different.
We had installed software to prevent them from doing
that,” McNierney said. “And the fact they worked
around it was clearly the kind of creativity, the kind
of inquiry, the kind of discovery that we think is
essential to learning.”
<http://www.technologyreview.com/news/506466/given-tablets-but-no-teachers-ethiopian-children-teach-themselves/>
Brian
<gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote in
<news:MIEKn...@kithrup.com> in rec.arts.sf.written:
> In article <kfsck0$ou1$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>> There was a fascinating article about a fellow in India
>> set up public access to a monitor and a mouse in a poor
>> area but provided no instructions. The local 7-14 year
>> old boys sussed out how to work it in a reasonable way
>> just by playing / experimenting in a few weeks. (E.g.,
>> he was amazed to see, one morning, a Word document with
>> "I LOVE INDIA" on it. I wrote monitor and mouse --
>> there was no keyboard. The kids found Character Map and
>> figured out how to paste text.)
> Similarly, someone gave kids in Ethiopia a bunch of
> tablets. A few weeks later, they had hacked Android in
> order to turn the cameras on (they had somehow been left
> off by default).
Elaborating later on Negroponte’s hacking comment, Ed
McNierney, OLPC’s chief technology officer, said that
the kids had gotten around OLPC’s effort to freeze
desktop settings. “The kids had completely customized
the desktop—so every kids’ tablet looked different.
We had installed software to prevent them from doing
that,” McNierney said. “And the fact they worked
around it was clearly the kind of creativity, the kind
of inquiry, the kind of discovery that we think is
essential to learning.”
<http://www.technologyreview.com/news/506466/given-tablets-but-no-teachers-ethiopian-children-teach-themselves/>
Brian
David DeLaney
Feb 18, 2013, 5:41:57 AM2/18/13
to
at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> in this day of the digital jack....@gmail.com reflected:
>>(Myself, would have divided the disk in back into twelve slices to evoke a
>>clock face, but I'm having doubts about my judgement. I'd a whole essay pr
>>epared on how rotation is a good visual clue for time-travel, tying into th
>>e cycles and epicycles as made explicit in Superman: The Movie. A moment p
>>ause reminded me so many machines use rotating parts that it's used to repr
>>esent less obvious working, from compters spinning up tape drive to starshi
>>ps revving up spacedrives.)
>
> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
What about the blinking red "12:00"? Or the calendar pages ripping themselves
> in this day of the digital jack....@gmail.com reflected:
>>(Myself, would have divided the disk in back into twelve slices to evoke a
>>clock face, but I'm having doubts about my judgement. I'd a whole essay pr
>>epared on how rotation is a good visual clue for time-travel, tying into th
>>e cycles and epicycles as made explicit in Superman: The Movie. A moment p
>>ause reminded me so many machines use rotating parts that it's used to repr
>>esent less obvious working, from compters spinning up tape drive to starshi
>>ps revving up spacedrives.)
>
> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
continuously off the calendar? And spinning clock hands still work; not all
watches are digital, even now. (The transition from typewriter to keyboards
has gone much closer to completion...)
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
ppint. at pplay
Feb 18, 2013, 5:51:07 AM2/18/13
to
- hi; in article,
<1f37e35b-ef47-416c...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" invoked images:
were indeed used to some extent to mark the passage of time, neither
is still so commonly in use for their significance to be unmistake-
able. the church bell sounding out the hour is probably still widely
understood, though it is certainly not heard so far afield now, as it
was in the days that being born within the sound of bow's bell(s) was
the definition of the cockney: but the symbol of a bell is widely used
to indicate an alarm function (and two bells, marriage).
- the icon of a desk calendar would not, imo, be clearly understood
to indicate time unless it were animated, which also applies to an
image of the sun, and to any other astronomical, astrological or cel-
estial sign as a static symbol; as, also, the classical revolutionar-
ies' bomb or, indeed, that of any explosion; i understood animations
to be excluded by the op's specifying one or more alternative *icons*
clearly indicative of time.
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"Incipient Doldrums."
- roger thomas, 19/3/97 (3/19/97 for merkins)
<1f37e35b-ef47-416c...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" invoked images:
> ppint. at pplay" wrote:
>> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
>> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
>> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
>> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
>> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
>> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
>
>If you're letting in sundials, then we also have the burning candle (some-
>> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
>> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
>> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
>> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
>> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
>> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
>
>times actually used as a clock), the calendar spilling pages, and the Bugs-
>Bunny-cartoon burning fuse for your dynamite. And, with the cuckoo clock,
>clock chimes, the boomier the doomier. And, from _The Time Machine_ book
>and/or movie, the Sun itself not oozng but leaping up into the sky. Some-
>Bunny-cartoon burning fuse for your dynamite. And, with the cuckoo clock,
>clock chimes, the boomier the doomier. And, from _The Time Machine_ book
>times the Moon. The whoosh of newborn galaxies out of a symbolic animation
>of the Big Bang...
- i considered the hour candle and also the clepsydera; though both
>of the Big Bang...
were indeed used to some extent to mark the passage of time, neither
is still so commonly in use for their significance to be unmistake-
able. the church bell sounding out the hour is probably still widely
understood, though it is certainly not heard so far afield now, as it
was in the days that being born within the sound of bow's bell(s) was
the definition of the cockney: but the symbol of a bell is widely used
to indicate an alarm function (and two bells, marriage).
- the icon of a desk calendar would not, imo, be clearly understood
to indicate time unless it were animated, which also applies to an
image of the sun, and to any other astronomical, astrological or cel-
estial sign as a static symbol; as, also, the classical revolutionar-
ies' bomb or, indeed, that of any explosion; i understood animations
to be excluded by the op's specifying one or more alternative *icons*
clearly indicative of time.
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
- roger thomas, 19/3/97 (3/19/97 for merkins)
ppint. at pplay
Feb 18, 2013, 5:59:05 AM2/18/13
to
- hi; in article,
<6c497551-38e1-4985...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" postscripted:
> ppint. at pplay" wrote:
>>the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic of time in our west-
much of the world; and in small symbol mightn't be thought _too_
clearly indicative of time.
>And, by the way, my digital clock truthfully promises minute-accuracy and
>better, because it's radio-controlled; but many aren't as good, and neither
>is much of the rest of the world, really. So it may not "work".
- many (most) do not, and yours may not. some exception to my state-
ment of my feelings towards cozening digital displays of the time.
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"alcohol doesn't freeze fast enough"
- leona, in i.m.t., 18/5/96 (5/18/96 in merkia)
<6c497551-38e1-4985...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" postscripted:
> ppint. at pplay" wrote:
>>the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic of time in our west-
>>ern culture
>
>Oh, and the parking-meter.
- which is unknown here and across most of cumbria and, i suspect,
>
>Oh, and the parking-meter.
much of the world; and in small symbol mightn't be thought _too_
clearly indicative of time.
>And, by the way, my digital clock truthfully promises minute-accuracy and
>better, because it's radio-controlled; but many aren't as good, and neither
>is much of the rest of the world, really. So it may not "work".
ment of my feelings towards cozening digital displays of the time.
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
- leona, in i.m.t., 18/5/96 (5/18/96 in merkia)
ppint. at pplay
Feb 18, 2013, 6:08:44 AM2/18/13
to
- hi; in article, <kfsck0$ou1$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
tm...@panix.com "Tim McDaniel" observed, and challenged:
discussed. it would appear there's hope for the future of hom. sap.
yet, if not necessarily in our own immediate neighbourhood thereof.
>Anyway, the Window "wait" symbol we call an hourglass. They called it
>"Shiva's drum", because they had no idea what an "hourglass" might be.
- and not a bad name for the thing, either, is it?
>> i prefer the style and the ease of approximation given by the
>> analogue clock to the false promise of minute accuracy in the
>> precision of the digital display,
>
>"False promise"? My digital watch slows about 3 seconds per month and
>I reset it from time to time (snk) from reliable sources.
- false promise, yes; the majority of digital watches display to
a precision their accuracy neither maintains, nor even achieves
momentarily without intervention. that some more expensive ones
may be that accurate, or are periodically reset by radio, doesn't
materially diminish the validity of the observation - i have no
great objection to digital chronometers that _are_ as accurate.
- love, ppint.
- "Hunting Problem" Robert Sheckley
tm...@panix.com "Tim McDaniel" observed, and challenged:
> ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> kgae...@tx.rr.com "Konrad Gaertner" objected:
>>>I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less
>>>ambiguous (and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
>
>There was a fascinating article about a fellow in India set up public
>access to a monitor and a mouse in a poor area but provided no
>instructions. The local 7-14 year old boys sussed out how to work it
>in a reasonable way just by playing / experimenting in a few weeks.
>(E.g., he was amazed to see, one morning, a Word document with "I LOVE
>INDIA" on it. I wrote monitor and mouse -- there was no keyboard.
>The kids found Character Map and figured out how to paste text.)
- yes; it has previously been remarked upon here, and also a little
>> kgae...@tx.rr.com "Konrad Gaertner" objected:
>>>I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less
>>>ambiguous (and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
>
>There was a fascinating article about a fellow in India set up public
>access to a monitor and a mouse in a poor area but provided no
>instructions. The local 7-14 year old boys sussed out how to work it
>in a reasonable way just by playing / experimenting in a few weeks.
>(E.g., he was amazed to see, one morning, a Word document with "I LOVE
>INDIA" on it. I wrote monitor and mouse -- there was no keyboard.
>The kids found Character Map and figured out how to paste text.)
discussed. it would appear there's hope for the future of hom. sap.
yet, if not necessarily in our own immediate neighbourhood thereof.
>Anyway, the Window "wait" symbol we call an hourglass. They called it
>"Shiva's drum", because they had no idea what an "hourglass" might be.
>> i prefer the style and the ease of approximation given by the
>> analogue clock to the false promise of minute accuracy in the
>> precision of the digital display,
>
>"False promise"? My digital watch slows about 3 seconds per month and
>I reset it from time to time (snk) from reliable sources.
a precision their accuracy neither maintains, nor even achieves
momentarily without intervention. that some more expensive ones
may be that accurate, or are periodically reset by radio, doesn't
materially diminish the validity of the observation - i have no
great objection to digital chronometers that _are_ as accurate.
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"No creature without tentacles had ever developed true intelligence."
--
- "Hunting Problem" Robert Sheckley
ppint. at pplay
Feb 18, 2013, 10:43:41 AM2/18/13
to
- hi; in article, <20130218.105...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>,
"ppint. at pplay" [that's myself] overstated:
[]
> one or more alternative *icons* clearly indicative of time.
for the time machine; which would seem to rule out flashing
neon or other electric light signs, animated cartoons or
other pictures, etc. symbols of circular action, such as a
an arrow curving around to point to its own start, are used
to indicate the direction of action rather than the lapse of
time, a dragon starting to swallow its own tail isn't by any
means still universally recognised as symbolizing infinity -
if ever the worm ouroboros was, and i was reminded that there
is apparently no way of conveying which is left and which is
right without a physical handed referent in common; is time
not perhaps similar in requiring a common cultural referent,
for an unambiguous icon for a time travel or viewer control?
"ppint. at pplay" [that's myself] overstated:
[]
> i understood animations to be excluded by the op's specifying
more like requesting
> one or more alternative *icons* clearly indicative of time.
neon or other electric light signs, animated cartoons or
other pictures, etc. symbols of circular action, such as a
an arrow curving around to point to its own start, are used
to indicate the direction of action rather than the lapse of
time, a dragon starting to swallow its own tail isn't by any
means still universally recognised as symbolizing infinity -
if ever the worm ouroboros was, and i was reminded that there
is apparently no way of conveying which is left and which is
right without a physical handed referent in common; is time
not perhaps similar in requiring a common cultural referent,
for an unambiguous icon for a time travel or viewer control?
Robert Carnegie
Feb 18, 2013, 11:06:56 AM2/18/13
to
On Monday, 18 February 2013 10:51:07 UTC, "ppint. at pplay" wrote:
> - i considered the hour candle and also the clepsydera;
> though both were indeed used to some extent to mark
> the passage of time, neither is still so commonly in use
> for their significance to be unmistakeable.
> - i considered the hour candle and also the clepsydera;
> though both were indeed used to some extent to mark
> the passage of time, neither is still so commonly in use
Recent-ish:
<http://namesakecomic.com/comic/the-witch-is-a-packrat/>
Never mind what's the context of the scene. Well, ask if
you must, I think I can explain.
Granted, two pages later - one being not actually part
of the story - there's a different symbolism, as the
candle flame goes out.
> the church bell sounding out the hour is probably
> still widely understood, though it is certainly not
> heard so far afield now, as it was
of Cinderella, and maybe of Ebenezer Scrooge. Maybe Falstaffe.
Robert Carnegie
Feb 18, 2013, 11:15:21 AM2/18/13
to
On Monday, 18 February 2013 15:43:41 UTC, "ppint. at pplay" wrote:
> - hi; in article, <20130218.105...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>, "ppint. at pplay" [that's myself] overstated: []
> > i understood animations to be excluded by the op's
> > specifying one or more alternative *icons* clearly
> - hi; in article, <20130218.105...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>, "ppint. at pplay" [that's myself] overstated: []
> > i understood animations to be excluded by the op's
> > indicative of time.
>
> for the time machine; which would seem to rule out
> flashing neon or other electric light signs, animated
> cartoons or other pictures, etc.
As opposed to having the rear end of it be a great big
>
> for the time machine; which would seem to rule out
> flashing neon or other electric light signs, animated
> cartoons or other pictures, etc.
clock-face? So that the whole looks like one of those
hover-skimmer-fan-driven-boat things.
Or, an oldie-timie sewing machine.
Well, if a clock face (or something so very like it)
was good enough for the hero to wrestle with in _Metropolis_
(not the anime, but I didn't watch all of it), then it's
good enough here.
Cryptoengineer
Feb 18, 2013, 11:57:49 AM2/18/13
to
On Feb 18, 11:15 am, Robert Carnegie <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
> On Monday, 18 February 2013 15:43:41 UTC, "ppint. at pplay" wrote:
> > - hi; in article, <20130218.1051.13020142...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>, "ppint. at pplay" [that's myself] overstated: []
> On Monday, 18 February 2013 15:43:41 UTC, "ppint. at pplay" wrote:
> > > i understood animations to be excluded by the op's
> > > specifying one or more alternative *icons* clearly
> > > indicative of time.
>
> > for the time machine; which would seem to rule out
> > flashing neon or other electric light signs, animated
> > cartoons or other pictures, etc.
>
> As opposed to having the rear end of it be a great big
> clock-face? So that the whole looks like one of those
> hover-skimmer-fan-driven-boat things.
>
> Or, an oldie-timie sewing machine.
>
> Well, if a clock face (or something so very like it)
> was good enough for the hero to wrestle with in _Metropolis_
> (not the anime, but I didn't watch all of it), then it's
> good enough here.
The movie Time Machine (which has been lovingly restored by a fan) has
> > > specifying one or more alternative *icons* clearly
> > > indicative of time.
>
> > for the time machine; which would seem to rule out
> > flashing neon or other electric light signs, animated
> > cartoons or other pictures, etc.
>
> As opposed to having the rear end of it be a great big
> clock-face? So that the whole looks like one of those
> hover-skimmer-fan-driven-boat things.
>
> Or, an oldie-timie sewing machine.
>
> Well, if a clock face (or something so very like it)
> was good enough for the hero to wrestle with in _Metropolis_
> (not the anime, but I didn't watch all of it), then it's
> good enough here.
appeared in a number of post-movie events, including Jittlov's 'Time
Tripper' and an episode of 'The Big Bang Theory', wherein a mundane
described it as looking like 'something Liberace would ride in the
Everglades'.
pt
Robert Carnegie
Feb 18, 2013, 2:40:21 PM2/18/13
to
If you have a need for time, look for a police... box.
Yes, yes, clumsy and painful, but I just had to do it.
Yes, yes, clumsy and painful, but I just had to do it.
Tim McDaniel
Feb 18, 2013, 5:17:16 PM2/18/13
to
In article <20130218.110...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>,
could be set. So your objection applies just as strongly to it -- it
did not stay accurate more than momentarily. If it could not be set,
the analog watch was even worse.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> - hi; in article, <kfsck0$ou1$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> tm...@panix.com "Tim McDaniel" observed, and challenged:
> - hi; in article, <kfsck0$ou1$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> tm...@panix.com "Tim McDaniel" observed, and challenged:
>>> i prefer the style and the ease of approximation given by the
>>> analogue clock to the false promise of minute accuracy in the
>>> precision of the digital display,
>>
>>"False promise"? My digital watch slows about 3 seconds per month and
>>I reset it from time to time (snk) from reliable sources.
>
> - false promise, yes; the majority of digital watches display to
> a precision their accuracy neither maintains, nor even achieves
> momentarily without intervention.
The analog watch (I once had one) had a second hand and I think it
>>> analogue clock to the false promise of minute accuracy in the
>>> precision of the digital display,
>>
>>"False promise"? My digital watch slows about 3 seconds per month and
>>I reset it from time to time (snk) from reliable sources.
>
> - false promise, yes; the majority of digital watches display to
> a precision their accuracy neither maintains, nor even achieves
> momentarily without intervention.
could be set. So your objection applies just as strongly to it -- it
did not stay accurate more than momentarily. If it could not be set,
the analog watch was even worse.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
Howard Brazee
Feb 18, 2013, 8:08:19 PM2/18/13
to
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:17:16 +0000 (UTC), tm...@panix.com (Tim
McDaniel) wrote:
>The analog watch (I once had one) had a second hand and I think it
>could be set. So your objection applies just as strongly to it -- it
>did not stay accurate more than momentarily. If it could not be set,
>the analog watch was even worse.
When I started pilot training, the USAF issued me a cheap analog watch
McDaniel) wrote:
>The analog watch (I once had one) had a second hand and I think it
>could be set. So your objection applies just as strongly to it -- it
>did not stay accurate more than momentarily. If it could not be set,
>the analog watch was even worse.
- which we synchronized before each flight.
Michael Stemper
Feb 19, 2013, 8:25:01 AM2/19/13
to
In article <kfu99b$p11$1...@reader1.panix.com>, tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) writes:
>In article <20130218.110...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>, ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> - hi; in article, <kfsck0$ou1$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>> tm...@panix.com "Tim McDaniel" observed, and challenged:
>>>> i prefer the style and the ease of approximation given by the
>>>> analogue clock to the false promise of minute accuracy in the
>>>> precision of the digital display,
>>>
>>>"False promise"? My digital watch slows about 3 seconds per month and
>>>I reset it from time to time (snk) from reliable sources.
Don't feel bad about it. My analog watch drifts a few seconds every
>In article <20130218.110...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>, ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> - hi; in article, <kfsck0$ou1$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>> tm...@panix.com "Tim McDaniel" observed, and challenged:
>>>> i prefer the style and the ease of approximation given by the
>>>> analogue clock to the false promise of minute accuracy in the
>>>> precision of the digital display,
>>>
>>>"False promise"? My digital watch slows about 3 seconds per month and
>>>I reset it from time to time (snk) from reliable sources.
month, too. I take care of that during the changes to and from Daylight
Saving Time.
>> - false promise, yes; the majority of digital watches display to
>> a precision their accuracy neither maintains, nor even achieves
>> momentarily without intervention.
>
>The analog watch (I once had one) had a second hand and I think it
>could be set.
The most common technique for getting the seconds right is to wait until
the second hand reaches the top of the dial, then pull out the setting
knob, adjust the minute hand to the mark for an upcoming minute, wait
until the time reaches that minute, and push the knob back in.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
"Writing about jazz is like dancing about architecture" - Thelonious Monk
Quadibloc
Feb 19, 2013, 2:55:10 PM2/19/13
to
On Feb 19, 6:25 am, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper)
wrote:
reset to the 12. But the real second hand can't be set and is on a
little round dial below the center of the watch.
You push a button, and an hour hand at the top of the watch, a minute
hand at the left side of the watch, each in their own little dials,
and the apparent second start moving. These watches have four little
ticks between the seconds, so that one can see the time marked out by
that hand in units of 1/5 of a second.
Watches like this are called "chronographs" - they're watches with a
stopwatch built in. He could have been referring to one of those.
John Savard
wrote:
> In article <kfu99b$p1...@reader1.panix.com>, t...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) writes:
> >The analog watch (I once had one) had a second hand and I think it
> >could be set.
>
> I've never seen one where you could do that.
>
> The most common technique for getting the seconds right is to wait until
> the second hand reaches the top of the dial, then pull out the setting
> knob, adjust the minute hand to the mark for an upcoming minute, wait
> until the time reaches that minute, and push the knob back in.
There are analog watches where what looks like the second hand can be
> >The analog watch (I once had one) had a second hand and I think it
> >could be set.
>
> I've never seen one where you could do that.
>
> The most common technique for getting the seconds right is to wait until
> the second hand reaches the top of the dial, then pull out the setting
> knob, adjust the minute hand to the mark for an upcoming minute, wait
> until the time reaches that minute, and push the knob back in.
reset to the 12. But the real second hand can't be set and is on a
little round dial below the center of the watch.
You push a button, and an hour hand at the top of the watch, a minute
hand at the left side of the watch, each in their own little dials,
and the apparent second start moving. These watches have four little
ticks between the seconds, so that one can see the time marked out by
that hand in units of 1/5 of a second.
Watches like this are called "chronographs" - they're watches with a
stopwatch built in. He could have been referring to one of those.
John Savard
Greg Goss
Feb 20, 2013, 2:29:11 PM2/20/13
to
now) was good to two minutes a month. That's no problem to include a
second hand.
The watch I wear now cost me $6 and was about a minute slow compared
to my employer's computers yesterday when I reset it. I don't know
how the watch shop's setting compared to my future employer's
computers three months ago, but I don't see any "false accuracy" here.
Since digital watches don't display subseconds, and I haven't seen a
watch that cost more than $4 being off by more than a minute a week,
then seconds display is useful if you set your watch weekly.
--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.
Greg Goss
Feb 20, 2013, 2:30:26 PM2/20/13
to
pulled out. So you wait till the second hand is at twelve, pull the
knob out and set the minutes, then wait for the time signal to push
the knob back in.
Scott Lurndal
Feb 20, 2013, 2:44:14 PM2/20/13
to
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:
>v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk ("ppint. at pplay") wrote:
>> - false promise, yes; the majority of digital watches display to
>> a precision their accuracy neither maintains, nor even achieves
>> momentarily without intervention. that some more expensive ones
>> may be that accurate, or are periodically reset by radio, doesn't
>> materially diminish the validity of the observation - i have no
>> great objection to digital chronometers that _are_ as accurate.
>
>WTF? Back in the analog days, my $13 Timex (probably an $80 watch
>now) was good to two minutes a month. That's no problem to include a
>second hand.
2 minutes a month is about 4 seconds a day. Given that a watch
>v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk ("ppint. at pplay") wrote:
>> - false promise, yes; the majority of digital watches display to
>> a precision their accuracy neither maintains, nor even achieves
>> momentarily without intervention. that some more expensive ones
>> may be that accurate, or are periodically reset by radio, doesn't
>> materially diminish the validity of the observation - i have no
>> great objection to digital chronometers that _are_ as accurate.
>
>WTF? Back in the analog days, my $13 Timex (probably an $80 watch
>now) was good to two minutes a month. That's no problem to include a
>second hand.
typically displays to a "precision" of 1-second, but yours had an
"accuracy" of 4-seconds/day, ppint's statement was accurate in
your case.
John F. Eldredge
May 18, 2013, 5:51:31 PM5/18/13
to
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:26:22 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
> ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
>> Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote
>>> ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
>
>>>> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
>>>> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
>>>> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
>>>> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
>>>> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
>>>> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
>
>>> I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less
>>> ambiguous (and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
>
>> - for thee and me, maybe; but have you not noticed that fewer and fewer
>> kids're wearing watches these days?
>
> Because they almost all have mobile/cell phones that can tell even a
> dinosaur like you the time.
>
>> i prefer the style and the ease of approximation given by the analogue
>> clock
>
> Any decent smartphone can show you the time any way you like for free
> when you already have the smartphone.
>
>> to the false promise of minute accuracy
>
> Nothing false about it when it’s a mobile/cell phone.
> ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
>> Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote
>>> ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
>
>>>> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
>>>> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
>>>> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
>>>> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
>>>> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
>>>> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
>
>>> I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less
>>> ambiguous (and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
>
>> - for thee and me, maybe; but have you not noticed that fewer and fewer
>> kids're wearing watches these days?
>
> Because they almost all have mobile/cell phones that can tell even a
> dinosaur like you the time.
>
>> i prefer the style and the ease of approximation given by the analogue
>> clock
>
> Any decent smartphone can show you the time any way you like for free
> when you already have the smartphone.
>
>> to the false promise of minute accuracy
>
>
>> in the precision of the digital display,
>
> I much prefer the digital display myself, and I am older than you are.
>
>> but most kids are growing up with the digital clock of their mobile
>> phone;
>
> And can use any type of display of the time they like on any even half
> decent smartphone, for free.
>
>> and there are far fewer public clocks in towns & cities than ever there
>> were
>
> Sure, because almost everyone has something much better available now.
>
>> (even counting the ones no longer maintained) - and some of the
>> declining total're nowadays newfangled digital displays.
>
> You could do the decent thing and set fire to yourself in protest, or
> sumfin.
>
>> - general kitchen timers are still mostly rotary, sfaics; but clocks
>> and timers built into cookers, ovens and microwaves're almost always
>> digital; and very, very few use an hourglass - aside of egg-timers.
>
> And you don’t see too many using their sundial in the kitchen either for
>> in the precision of the digital display,
>
> I much prefer the digital display myself, and I am older than you are.
>
>> but most kids are growing up with the digital clock of their mobile
>> phone;
>
> And can use any type of display of the time they like on any even half
> decent smartphone, for free.
>
>> and there are far fewer public clocks in towns & cities than ever there
>> were
>
> Sure, because almost everyone has something much better available now.
>
>> (even counting the ones no longer maintained) - and some of the
>> declining total're nowadays newfangled digital displays.
>
> You could do the decent thing and set fire to yourself in protest, or
> sumfin.
>
>> - general kitchen timers are still mostly rotary, sfaics; but clocks
>> and timers built into cookers, ovens and microwaves're almost always
>> digital; and very, very few use an hourglass - aside of egg-timers.
>
> some reason.
Last time I had a watch quit working, I tried using my cell-phone as a
timepiece, but soon bought another watch. Tilting my wrist so that I can
see my watch is quicker than taking my cell phone out of its holster, and
I can do it even if I have both hands full, as long as I am not carrying
something in my left hand that would spill when I rotated my wrist. I am
55, but am a geek rather than a technophobe.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Butch Malahide
May 18, 2013, 6:25:22 PM5/18/13
to
On May 18, 4:51 pm, "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
> Last time I had a watch quit working, I tried using my cell-phone as a
> timepiece, but soon bought another watch. Tilting my wrist so that I can
> see my watch is quicker than taking my cell phone out of its holster, and
> I can do it even if I have both hands full, as long as I am not carrying
> something in my left hand that would spill when I rotated my wrist. I am
> 55, but am a geek rather than a technophobe.
I used to wonder about all the weird people who carry a telephone
> Last time I had a watch quit working, I tried using my cell-phone as a
> timepiece, but soon bought another watch. Tilting my wrist so that I can
> see my watch is quicker than taking my cell phone out of its holster, and
> I can do it even if I have both hands full, as long as I am not carrying
> something in my left hand that would spill when I rotated my wrist. I am
> 55, but am a geek rather than a technophobe.
around with them wherever they go--are they crazed, or what? Now I
understand. The poor bastards don't have watches. They need the
telephone to know what time it is.
J. Clarke
May 18, 2013, 6:39:42 PM5/18/13
to
In article <avqbf2...@mid.individual.net>, jo...@jfeldredge.com
says...
clocks that lacked analog clock faces. The cuckoo normally serves a
function analogous to a chime, and in some cases cuckoo clocks have a
chime as well as the cuckoo.
says...
>
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:26:22 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
>
> > ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
> >> Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote
> >>> ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
> >
> >>>> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
> >>>> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
> >>>> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
> >>>> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
> >>>> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
> >>>> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
> >
> >>> I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less
> >>> ambiguous (and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
I missed this the when it was posted--I was not aware of any cuckoo
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:26:22 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
>
> > ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
> >> Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote
> >>> ppint. at pplay <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
> >
> >>>> - indeed; in fact, if you take time to think on it further, it might
> >>>> strike you that the only icons perhaps still unambiguously symbolic
> >>>> of time in our western culture are the plate & gnomen of the sundial,
> >>>> not particularly obviously linking directly with the mechanical, and
> >>>> the periodical appearance from behind its little opening doors of the
> >>>> wooden (or nowadays plastic?) bird of the cuckoo clock.
> >
> >>> I would think that analog clock faces and hourglasses are less
> >>> ambiguous (and easier to recognize) than sundials or cuckoo clocks.
clocks that lacked analog clock faces. The cuckoo normally serves a
function analogous to a chime, and in some cases cuckoo clocks have a
chime as well as the cuckoo.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
May 18, 2013, 7:42:05 PM5/18/13
to
watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
I finally got a cell phone in 2006 (?) when the iPhone was released,
because it combined three separate things that I'd toyed with getting
but never felt it was worth getting (cell phone, PDA, MP3 player).
Now that I've had one for several years, I find that it's terribly
convenient. I'm at the store and my wife discovers we're out of
something we need badly? She calls and I pick it up. Old way: I get
home, find out, and either we have to do without paper towels or some
other vital aspect of home operations, or I have to go out again. On
vacation with friends? You arrange to meet somewhere, and if someone
hasn't shown up, you just call their cell and find out if they're just
running late, had an accident, or what. Old Way: Have to all meet at a
given place and if someone wasn't there you had no idea what you were
supposed to do -- keep waiting? how long? Maybe something happened?
Smartphones are even better. In a new town, want to go out to eat but
don't know where to go? You can hit the web from your phone, and once
you pick a place, the phone will tell you how to get there.
It's not *QUITE* at the "I have no idea how I ever got along without
this" that my ATM card is, but it's awfully convenient.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Howard Brazee
May 18, 2013, 8:57:36 PM5/18/13
to
But I don't like wearing jewelry - I sweat under watch bands and
rings. I stopped wearing watches long before I had cell phones.
Now if I was writing SF, no time pieces would be visible for most
situations. No communicators would be visible. It's going to be
built in.
Wayne Throop
May 18, 2013, 9:51:30 PM5/18/13
to
:: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
:: Last time I had a watch quit working, I tried using my cell-phone as
:: its holster
: Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com>
: I used to wonder about all the weird people who carry a telephone
notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
And that's the base models, not a smartphone. DUMBphones do all that.
I persevere using my phone as a watch for the moment, because I'm still
pretty much alergic to wristwatches. Even before cellphones, I used a
pocketwatch. I had been looking for some time for something with a small
enough formactor to do at least watch, alarm clock, calculator, calendar,
and notebook. I found some mostly-satisfactory widgets. Then cellphones
came along, and though my shorter list of functions *could* in theory be
less expensive in the form factors I want, I need the cellphone anyways,
so the motivation to look elsewhere went away. Mostly.
:: Last time I had a watch quit working, I tried using my cell-phone as
:: a timepiece, but soon bought another watch. Tilting my wrist so
:: that I c= an see my watch is quicker than taking my cell phone out of
:: its holster
: Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com>
: I used to wonder about all the weird people who carry a telephone
: around with them wherever they go--are they crazed, or what? Now I
: understand. The poor bastards don't have watches.
Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
: understand. The poor bastards don't have watches.
notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
And that's the base models, not a smartphone. DUMBphones do all that.
I persevere using my phone as a watch for the moment, because I'm still
pretty much alergic to wristwatches. Even before cellphones, I used a
pocketwatch. I had been looking for some time for something with a small
enough formactor to do at least watch, alarm clock, calculator, calendar,
and notebook. I found some mostly-satisfactory widgets. Then cellphones
came along, and though my shorter list of functions *could* in theory be
less expensive in the form factors I want, I need the cellphone anyways,
so the motivation to look elsewhere went away. Mostly.
Dorothy J Heydt
May 18, 2013, 10:58:14 PM5/18/13
to
In article <kn93d0$ftm$1...@dont-email.me>,
its band broke for the umpteenth time I said The hell with it and
threaded a ribbon through the "bottom" end (that is, the end that
would be nearest six o'clock if it weren't a digital watch). I
wear it pinned to my bodice -- it's the same principle as a
nurse's watch -- and because it's upside-down I have only to lift
it and I see it right-side-up.
And I still don't have a cell phone.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
>watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
>my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
I had a watch like that once. In fact, I still have it, but when
>
> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
>watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
>my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
its band broke for the umpteenth time I said The hell with it and
threaded a ribbon through the "bottom" end (that is, the end that
would be nearest six o'clock if it weren't a digital watch). I
wear it pinned to my bodice -- it's the same principle as a
nurse's watch -- and because it's upside-down I have only to lift
it and I see it right-side-up.
And I still don't have a cell phone.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
Dorothy J Heydt
May 18, 2013, 10:59:27 PM5/18/13
to
In article <13689...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>:: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
ten or twelve ways.
>:: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
ten or twelve ways.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
May 18, 2013, 11:13:26 PM5/18/13
to
On 5/18/13 10:58 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <kn93d0$ftm$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
>> watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
>> my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
>
> I had a watch like that once. In fact, I still have it, but when
> its band broke for the umpteenth time I said The hell with it and
> threaded a ribbon through the "bottom" end (that is, the end that
> would be nearest six o'clock if it weren't a digital watch). I
> wear it pinned to my bodice -- it's the same principle as a
> nurse's watch -- and because it's upside-down I have only to lift
> it and I see it right-side-up.
>
> And I still don't have a cell phone.
>
I don't have a bodice. :)
> In article <kn93d0$ftm$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
>> watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
>> my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
>
> I had a watch like that once. In fact, I still have it, but when
> its band broke for the umpteenth time I said The hell with it and
> threaded a ribbon through the "bottom" end (that is, the end that
> would be nearest six o'clock if it weren't a digital watch). I
> wear it pinned to my bodice -- it's the same principle as a
> nurse's watch -- and because it's upside-down I have only to lift
> it and I see it right-side-up.
>
> And I still don't have a cell phone.
>
Of course, you don't travel around on your own all the time, which I
have to do. Another EXCELLENT advantage -- I can call when I'm out on
business travel without having to be subjected to the hideous fees for
using the hotel phone to call home.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
May 18, 2013, 11:15:06 PM5/18/13
to
On 5/18/13 10:59 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <13689...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>> :: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>
>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
> ten or twelve ways.
>
No, you're just back to the way you were before you had it. It's not
> In article <13689...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>> :: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>
>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
> ten or twelve ways.
>
like having those awesome capabilities changes what you had before. I've
left my phone behind on a couple of occasions; it's an annoyance, but
mainly because I'm saying "but how PRIMITIVE this is!" when I realize I
have to get to a land line.
Rod Speed
May 18, 2013, 11:37:09 PM5/18/13
to
"John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote in message
news:avqbf2...@mid.individual.net...
watches that I still have decades ago now.
> Tilting my wrist so that I can see my watch is quicker
> than taking my cell phone out of its holster,
in the car tells me the time most of the time I need the
time and that’s true when home too.
And I don’t bother with a holster for the phone either,
all I ever need to do is take it out of my pocket.
> and I can do it even if I have both hands full, as long as I am not
> carrying
> something in my left hand that would spill when I rotated my wrist.
> I am 55,
Much younger than me.
> but am a geek rather than a technophobe.
Simon Brown
May 18, 2013, 11:48:24 PM5/18/13
to
"Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
news:Mn0yz...@kithrup.com...
> In article <13689...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>:: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>
>>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
> ten or twelve ways.
No, it's at most a minor irritation.
>>:: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>
>>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
> ten or twelve ways.
Dorothy J Heydt
May 18, 2013, 11:51:51 PM5/18/13
to
In article <kn9fp9$e4$1...@dont-email.me>,
And if you're traveling around on your own all the time, I am
*convinced* that you don't do so bare-chested. The FAA's got to
have some regulation against it (though it might make TSA's life
easier).
> Of course, you don't travel around on your own all the time, which I
>have to do. Another EXCELLENT advantage -- I can call when I'm out on
>business travel without having to be subjected to the hideous fees for
>using the hotel phone to call home.
True, I don't get away from home much, and never on my own (I
also don't drive). My customary away-times are about five days
in February to do DunDraCon, and maybe one overnight at Twelfth
Night. True, my daughter took us all to Disneyland for several
days last December ... but I didn't call anyone.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 5/18/13 10:58 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <kn93d0$ftm$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
>>> watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
>>> my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
>>
>> I had a watch like that once. In fact, I still have it, but when
>> its band broke for the umpteenth time I said The hell with it and
>> threaded a ribbon through the "bottom" end (that is, the end that
>> would be nearest six o'clock if it weren't a digital watch). I
>> wear it pinned to my bodice -- it's the same principle as a
>> nurse's watch -- and because it's upside-down I have only to lift
>> it and I see it right-side-up.
>>
>> And I still don't have a cell phone.
>
> I don't have a bodice. :)
Well, no, but you have a shirt front, if you're wearing a shirt.
>On 5/18/13 10:58 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <kn93d0$ftm$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
>>> watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
>>> my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
>>
>> I had a watch like that once. In fact, I still have it, but when
>> its band broke for the umpteenth time I said The hell with it and
>> threaded a ribbon through the "bottom" end (that is, the end that
>> would be nearest six o'clock if it weren't a digital watch). I
>> wear it pinned to my bodice -- it's the same principle as a
>> nurse's watch -- and because it's upside-down I have only to lift
>> it and I see it right-side-up.
>>
>> And I still don't have a cell phone.
>
> I don't have a bodice. :)
And if you're traveling around on your own all the time, I am
*convinced* that you don't do so bare-chested. The FAA's got to
have some regulation against it (though it might make TSA's life
easier).
> Of course, you don't travel around on your own all the time, which I
>have to do. Another EXCELLENT advantage -- I can call when I'm out on
>business travel without having to be subjected to the hideous fees for
>using the hotel phone to call home.
also don't drive). My customary away-times are about five days
in February to do DunDraCon, and maybe one overnight at Twelfth
Night. True, my daughter took us all to Disneyland for several
days last December ... but I didn't call anyone.
Robert Carnegie
May 19, 2013, 5:23:17 AM5/19/13
to
On Sunday, 19 May 2013 00:42:05 UTC+1, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
> watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
> my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
I'm overweight and I cycle regularly, which means perspiring a lot;
> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
> watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
> my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
my previous wristwatch was looking the worse for it - now I'm wearing
a towel sweatband on my wrist with the watch on top of it.
Then again, I also want around for a while with a PDA on my wrist.
And before that, a little notebook in a plastic case - with a watch
on it. It's rather fun constructing the strap arrangements,
e.g. collecting the little wooden sticks that you eat ice cream
from, glueing them into place...
Wayne Throop
May 19, 2013, 7:31:29 AM5/19/13
to
:: Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment
: And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed ten or
: twelve ways.
Yes. Better to remove the possibility of using a cellphone the many
thousands of times it'd be useful, so you won't have to notice any
inconvenience the one time it is not available. Better not to love
at all than to love and lose. Better to not bother lighting a candle,
because the cursed thing would probably go out sometime anyways.
:: book, notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave
:: Bangalore out of that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web
:: browser, email client, gps navigator... let's see, anything else...
:: oh yes, a phone.
: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
:: Bangalore out of that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web
:: browser, email client, gps navigator... let's see, anything else...
:: oh yes, a phone.
: And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed ten or
: twelve ways.
Yes. Better to remove the possibility of using a cellphone the many
thousands of times it'd be useful, so you won't have to notice any
inconvenience the one time it is not available. Better not to love
at all than to love and lose. Better to not bother lighting a candle,
because the cursed thing would probably go out sometime anyways.
Greg Goss
May 19, 2013, 1:07:16 PM5/19/13
to
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, 19 May 2013 00:42:05 UTC+1, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
>> watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
>> my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
>
>I'm overweight and I cycle regularly, which means perspiring a lot;
>my previous wristwatch was looking the worse for it - now I'm wearing
>a towel sweatband on my wrist with the watch on top of it.
I'm overweight and sweat a lot. At a couple of previous jobs, there
>On Sunday, 19 May 2013 00:42:05 UTC+1, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
>> watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
>> my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
>
>I'm overweight and I cycle regularly, which means perspiring a lot;
>my previous wristwatch was looking the worse for it - now I'm wearing
>a towel sweatband on my wrist with the watch on top of it.
were visible salt lines on the shirts as they went into the washer.
I've never seen any impact of the sweat on my watches. I've had one
or two nylon straps, but usually either an expansion bracelet or a
"Z-clip" that locks non-expanding metal links into place. The only
kind of bracelet that I could imagine caring about sweat might be
leather, in which case, "don't do leather".
>Then again, I also want around for a while with a PDA on my wrist.
for North American males. Nobody looking at me would (since 1993)
imagine me as the pumping iron type, but the bicep case still had
straps that were way too short.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Greg Goss
May 19, 2013, 1:19:07 PM5/19/13
to
thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
>And that's the base models, not a smartphone. DUMBphones do all that.
GPS? I still have my dumbphone, a Nokia music-oriented phone. I went
>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
>And that's the base models, not a smartphone. DUMBphones do all that.
back to it after I dumped the Nokia smartphone. It could take
downloadable Java apps, so I guess it wasn't completely dumb. I guess
there might have teen a timezone index. I used the calendar /
appointment book all the time, as well as the music player and
recorder. But notebook on a 10-key pad? Even with predictive text,
anything more than "Pizza OK?" was painful. And for anything other
than blog decoration, you need a better camera than the dumbphones
had. To my mind, any camera under 3 MP is either a Skype thingy (if
facing screenwards) or for blog decoration shots (facing outwards).
At 3 MP you are getting towards real camera territory, and beyond 5
you're starting to waste battery.
My wife, at her courses last spring, started taking pictures of her
friend's notes because it was easier than photocopying. Photographs
the shopping list board on the fridge rather than copying it or taking
it (there's a reason I bought a wipe-clean board on magnets, sigh)
Smartphones came out at the point where "real" cameras became cheap
enough to stick anywhere. My cheap, generic smartphone's camera is
seriously limited - at 2/3 of a MP, it's not good enough to snap text.
>I had been looking for some time for something with a small
>enough formactor to do at least watch, alarm clock, calculator, calendar,
>and notebook. I found some mostly-satisfactory widgets. Then cellphones
>came along, and though my shorter list of functions *could* in theory be
>less expensive in the form factors I want, I need the cellphone anyways,
>so the motivation to look elsewhere went away. Mostly.
pocket. After I moved on from the Startac (wrong freq after the move
to Toronto), my next three phones all had lanyards to keep them under
control if they fall out of a shirt pocket. I sometimes tucked the
phone under the shirt if I was wearing a pocketless shirt or didn't
want to look too nerdy when wearing a dress shirt to an event or
interview. My big objection to smartphones is that none of them seem
to believe in lanyard slots.
Greg Goss
May 19, 2013, 1:20:58 PM5/19/13
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>In article <13689...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>:: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>
>>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
>And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>ten or twelve ways.
My last three cell phones, and my last two iPods, all sync'ed to
>In article <13689...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>:: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>
>>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
>And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>ten or twelve ways.
Outlook. So you're only out the machine, not the data, and machines
are cheap.
The iPod nano 3 had the watch, the calendar, appointment book, even
the notepad. But without a lanyard slot, it was compromised for this
role.
ppint. at pplay
May 19, 2013, 10:06:52 AM5/19/13
to
- hi; in article, <fn8gp81t02e87a0q6...@4ax.com>,
how...@brazee.net "Howard Brazee" declared:
our worst nightmares.
- "remember chronopolis!"
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
Vat girls - the missing piece to the puzzle of Utopia.
- "quadibloc" (j savard @ecn.dot.ab.dot.ca) on rasfwr
(09:08:03 -0700) 16:08:03 gmt 14/8/10 (8/14/10 for merkins)
how...@brazee.net "Howard Brazee" declared:
> Butch Malahide<fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>I used to wonder about all the weird people who carry a telephone
>>around with them wherever they go--are they crazed, or what? Now I
>>understand. The poor bastards don't have watches. They need the
>>telephone to know what time it is.
>
>I don't need to know time that often - clocks are everywhere anyway.
>But I don't like wearing jewelry - I sweat under watch bands and
>rings. I stopped wearing watches long before I had cell phones.
>Now if I was writing SF, no time pieces would be visible for most
>situations. No communicators would be visible. It's going to be
>built in.
- the utopias people advance have a habit of turning into
>>I used to wonder about all the weird people who carry a telephone
>>around with them wherever they go--are they crazed, or what? Now I
>>understand. The poor bastards don't have watches. They need the
>>telephone to know what time it is.
>
>I don't need to know time that often - clocks are everywhere anyway.
>But I don't like wearing jewelry - I sweat under watch bands and
>rings. I stopped wearing watches long before I had cell phones.
>Now if I was writing SF, no time pieces would be visible for most
>situations. No communicators would be visible. It's going to be
>built in.
our worst nightmares.
- "remember chronopolis!"
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
Vat girls - the missing piece to the puzzle of Utopia.
- "quadibloc" (j savard @ecn.dot.ab.dot.ca) on rasfwr
(09:08:03 -0700) 16:08:03 gmt 14/8/10 (8/14/10 for merkins)
Brian M. Scott
May 19, 2013, 2:13:01 PM5/19/13
to
On Sun, 19 May 2013 01:51:30 GMT, Wayne Throop
<thr...@sheol.org> wrote in <news:13689...@sheol.org> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar,
> appointment book, notepad, city-to-timezone index (though
> who would leave Bangalore out of that... but I digress),
> camera, and optionally web browser, email client, gps
> navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
So? I see only one item there that I might want to have
with me, and it's in the optional list.
[...]
Brian
<thr...@sheol.org> wrote in <news:13689...@sheol.org> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar,
> appointment book, notepad, city-to-timezone index (though
> who would leave Bangalore out of that... but I digress),
> camera, and optionally web browser, email client, gps
> navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
with me, and it's in the optional list.
[...]
Brian
David Dyer-Bennet
May 19, 2013, 2:47:46 PM5/19/13
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
> In article <13689...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>:: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>
>>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
> ten or twelve ways.
Only by falling back to where I would have been before I had that stuff
> In article <13689...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>:: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>
>>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
> ten or twelve ways.
with me. The *information* isn't lost, that's backed up elsewhere. I
just get the replacement phone and sync the data onto it.
--
Googleproofaddress(account:dd-b provider:dd-b domain:net)
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
J. Clarke
May 19, 2013, 3:00:28 PM5/19/13
to
In article <87ee3280-c525-4638...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com says...
of vinyl, a piece of terry cloth sewn to that, a couple of loops to hold
the watch, and a velcro closure. Didn't look like much but worked fine
for years. Now I don't remember what became of it. If you can sew it's
not hard to make.
rja.ca...@excite.com says...
>
> On Sunday, 19 May 2013 00:42:05 UTC+1, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> > Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
> > watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
> > my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
>
> I'm overweight and I cycle regularly, which means perspiring a lot;
> my previous wristwatch was looking the worse for it - now I'm wearing
> a towel sweatband on my wrist with the watch on top of it.
I remember when I was in college making up a watch band that was a piece
> On Sunday, 19 May 2013 00:42:05 UTC+1, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> > Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
> > watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
> > my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
>
> I'm overweight and I cycle regularly, which means perspiring a lot;
> my previous wristwatch was looking the worse for it - now I'm wearing
> a towel sweatband on my wrist with the watch on top of it.
of vinyl, a piece of terry cloth sewn to that, a couple of loops to hold
the watch, and a velcro closure. Didn't look like much but worked fine
for years. Now I don't remember what became of it. If you can sew it's
not hard to make.
David DeLaney
May 19, 2013, 3:15:10 PM5/19/13
to
On 2013-05-19, "ppint. at pplay" <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> - the utopias people advance have a habit of turning into
> our worst nightmares.
>
> - "remember chronopolis!"
Chronopolis cannot be remembered. Only predicted.
> - the utopias people advance have a habit of turning into
> our worst nightmares.
>
> - "remember chronopolis!"
Dave, it's a poor mind
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Butch Malahide
May 19, 2013, 4:12:55 PM5/19/13
to
On May 18, 8:51 pm, thro...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
> :: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
> :: Last time I had a watch quit working, I tried using my cell-phone as
> :: a timepiece, but soon bought another watch. Tilting my wrist so
> :: that I c= an see my watch is quicker than taking my cell phone out of
> :: its holster
>
> : Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com>
> :: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
> :: Last time I had a watch quit working, I tried using my cell-phone as
> :: a timepiece, but soon bought another watch. Tilting my wrist so
> :: that I c= an see my watch is quicker than taking my cell phone out of
> :: its holster
>
> : I used to wonder about all the weird people who carry a telephone
> : around with them wherever they go--are they crazed, or what? Now I
> : understand. The poor bastards don't have watches.
>
> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
> And that's the base models, not a smartphone. DUMBphones do all that.
I actually have a dumbphone, and I had no idea it could do anything
> : around with them wherever they go--are they crazed, or what? Now I
> : understand. The poor bastards don't have watches.
>
> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
> And that's the base models, not a smartphone. DUMBphones do all that.
except telephone. I'm not even 100% sure about the telephone part;
I've only had it for a few months, so I haven't had occasion to make a
phone call yet.
Wayne Throop
May 19, 2013, 8:16:01 PM5/19/13
to
:: Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment
: So? I see only one item there that I might want to have with me, and
really not need ANY of watch, alarm clock, calendar and calculator.
Not need them so little that a widget half the size of my palm
is too much hassle to drop in a pocket or whatnot.
Maybe you have an innate time sense, wake up when you have chosen before
you sleep and never lose track of time while awake, never need to look up
dates and weekdays on a calendar, and can do sums in your head that fast.
Mind you, I don't particularly doubt it; just a bit far out on the
bell curve.
:: book, notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave
:: Bangalore out of that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web
:: browser, email client, gps navigator... let's see, anything else...
:: oh yes, a phone.
: "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu>
:: Bangalore out of that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web
:: browser, email client, gps navigator... let's see, anything else...
:: oh yes, a phone.
: So? I see only one item there that I might want to have with me, and
: it's in the optional list.
Well good for you. Though I find it a bit odd that somebody would
really not need ANY of watch, alarm clock, calendar and calculator.
Not need them so little that a widget half the size of my palm
is too much hassle to drop in a pocket or whatnot.
Maybe you have an innate time sense, wake up when you have chosen before
you sleep and never lose track of time while awake, never need to look up
dates and weekdays on a calendar, and can do sums in your head that fast.
Mind you, I don't particularly doubt it; just a bit far out on the
bell curve.
Wayne Throop
May 19, 2013, 8:22:35 PM5/19/13
to
:: Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment
: I actually have a dumbphone, and I had no idea it could do anything
dispense with menus at all. I wouldn't call those dumbphones; more
like lobotomizedphones. Lots of dumbphones add features because the
compute power and memory to do them is essentially free; manufacturers
buy the cheapest chips, and they still have *way* more processing and
storage capacity left over after "make a phone call" that loading them
up with features can't really hurt anything. Other than folks who are
actively feature-phobic. And for those, you have the lobotomizedphones.
Which may well be a bit *more* expensive than just dumbphones, because
they need customized keypad and software to cut out many of the usual
dumbphone features. (Though mind you, I haven't checked pricing...)
:: book, notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave
:: Bangalore out of that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web
:: browser, email client, gps navigator... let's see, anything else...
:: oh yes, a phone.
::
:: And that's the base models, not a smartphone. DUMBphones do all that.
: Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com>
:: Bangalore out of that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web
:: browser, email client, gps navigator... let's see, anything else...
:: oh yes, a phone.
::
:: And that's the base models, not a smartphone. DUMBphones do all that.
: I actually have a dumbphone, and I had no idea it could do anything
: except telephone. I'm not even 100% sure about the telephone part;
: I've only had it for a few months, so I haven't had occasion to make a
: phone call yet.
Some dumbphones drop features to make the menus simpler, or
: I've only had it for a few months, so I haven't had occasion to make a
: phone call yet.
dispense with menus at all. I wouldn't call those dumbphones; more
like lobotomizedphones. Lots of dumbphones add features because the
compute power and memory to do them is essentially free; manufacturers
buy the cheapest chips, and they still have *way* more processing and
storage capacity left over after "make a phone call" that loading them
up with features can't really hurt anything. Other than folks who are
actively feature-phobic. And for those, you have the lobotomizedphones.
Which may well be a bit *more* expensive than just dumbphones, because
they need customized keypad and software to cut out many of the usual
dumbphone features. (Though mind you, I haven't checked pricing...)
Wayne Throop
May 19, 2013, 8:29:17 PM5/19/13
to
:: Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment
:: book, notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave
:: Bangalore out of that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web
:: browser, email client, gps navigator... let's see, anything else...
:: oh yes, a phone.
: Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org>
:: book, notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave
:: Bangalore out of that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web
:: browser, email client, gps navigator... let's see, anything else...
:: oh yes, a phone.
: GPS?
I suppose there still may be some that don't, but most bottom-of-the-line
phones I've looked at have GPS chips; for nothing else, for 911 purposes.
If you pay a bit extra in your plan, it will use the GPS, and download
maps on the fly (I don't do that... yet).
: I still have my dumbphone, a Nokia music-oriented phone. I went back
: to it after I dumped the Nokia smartphone. It could take downloadable
: Java apps, so I guess it wasn't completely dumb.
Well... the phones I've been considering "dumb" don't have downloadable
: Java apps, so I guess it wasn't completely dumb.
apps (except for I think some parts of the mobil we browser (though maybe
not) and the gps stuff (the maps). Oh, and a few things like "geocity"
or something, that lets you know which town the phone calling you is
coming from. All these available not in an "app store", but features
turn-on-able by the provider.
David Harmon
May 19, 2013, 9:23:56 PM5/19/13
to
On Sun, 19 May 2013 11:19:07 -0600 in rec.arts.sf.written, Greg Goss
<go...@gossg.org> wrote,
something you can grep.
<go...@gossg.org> wrote,
>My wife, at her courses last spring, started taking pictures of her
>friend's notes because it was easier than photocopying. Photographs
>the shopping list board on the fridge rather than copying it or taking
>it (there's a reason I bought a wipe-clean board on magnets, sigh)
OK, but there should be software that automatically coverts that to
>friend's notes because it was easier than photocopying. Photographs
>the shopping list board on the fridge rather than copying it or taking
>it (there's a reason I bought a wipe-clean board on magnets, sigh)
something you can grep.
Howard Brazee
May 19, 2013, 10:24:58 PM5/19/13
to
On Sun, 19 May 2013 11:31:29 GMT, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
wrote:
>Yes. Better to remove the possibility of using a cellphone the many
>thousands of times it'd be useful, so you won't have to notice any
>inconvenience the one time it is not available. Better not to love
>at all than to love and lose. Better to not bother lighting a candle,
>because the cursed thing would probably go out sometime anyways.
It doesn't work anymore to write a story where the bad guys cut the
phone line before attacking.
wrote:
>Yes. Better to remove the possibility of using a cellphone the many
>thousands of times it'd be useful, so you won't have to notice any
>inconvenience the one time it is not available. Better not to love
>at all than to love and lose. Better to not bother lighting a candle,
>because the cursed thing would probably go out sometime anyways.
phone line before attacking.
Howard Brazee
May 19, 2013, 10:22:28 PM5/19/13
to
On Sun, 19 May 2013 02:59:27 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:
>>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
>And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>ten or twelve ways.
No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
Heydt) wrote:
>>Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>
>And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>ten or twelve ways.
The iPhone takes more photos than any other camera. The reason? The
best camera is the one you have with you.
Howard Brazee
May 19, 2013, 10:24:05 PM5/19/13
to
On Sat, 18 May 2013 23:15:06 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> No, you're just back to the way you were before you had it. It's not
>like having those awesome capabilities changes what you had before. I've
>left my phone behind on a couple of occasions; it's an annoyance, but
>mainly because I'm saying "but how PRIMITIVE this is!" when I realize I
>have to get to a land line.
I have mentioned before - I bought my first cell phone after someone
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> No, you're just back to the way you were before you had it. It's not
>like having those awesome capabilities changes what you had before. I've
>left my phone behind on a couple of occasions; it's an annoyance, but
>mainly because I'm saying "but how PRIMITIVE this is!" when I realize I
>have to get to a land line.
saved my wife's life by calling 911 after she was in a car accident. I
owe big time, and I'm not going to fail to pay forward because I
didn't have a phone with me.
Brian M. Scott
May 19, 2013, 11:58:58 PM5/19/13
to
On Mon, 20 May 2013 00:16:01 GMT, Wayne Throop
<thr...@sheol.org> wrote in <news:13690...@sheol.org> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
>:: Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar,
>:: appointment book, notepad, city-to-timezone index
>:: (though who would leave Bangalore out of that... but I
>:: digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email
>:: client, gps navigator... let's see, anything else...
>:: oh yes, a phone.
>: "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu>
>: So? I see only one item there that I might want to have
>: with me, and it's in the optional list.
> Well good for you. Though I find it a bit odd that
> somebody would really not need ANY of watch, alarm clock,
> calendar and calculator.
I've neither worn nor carried a watch of any kind in years.
I've two clocks at home, not to mention the computer, I've a
clock on the bicycle, and I've a clock in the car. Why on
earth would I need a watch equivalent?
One of the clocks at home is an alarm clock, though now that
I'm retired I almost never need to use it. I may need to
use one if I'm travelling, but in that case I'm almost
certainly staying in a hotel, where one is provided.
For the most part my very limited engagement calendar is in
my head, though I do note a few important appointments on
the calendar in the kitchen on which I also record my
bicycle rides; anything more would be overkill that I'd
never use anyway. And if I really need to know on what day
of the week a given date falls when I'm out and about, I can
calculate it easily enough.
Finally, the odds against my needing to do a calculation
that I can't do in my head, or at least with pen and paper,
when I'm away from home are enormous.
> Not need them so little that a widget half the size of my
> palm is too much hassle to drop in a pocket or whatnot.
The pockets of my trousers are already full, and they are
often the only pockets available. More to the point, why
spend money on things that I don't need and in some cases
actively don't want?
[...]
Brian
<thr...@sheol.org> wrote in <news:13690...@sheol.org> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
>:: Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar,
>:: appointment book, notepad, city-to-timezone index
>:: (though who would leave Bangalore out of that... but I
>:: digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email
>:: client, gps navigator... let's see, anything else...
>:: oh yes, a phone.
>: "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu>
>: So? I see only one item there that I might want to have
>: with me, and it's in the optional list.
> Well good for you. Though I find it a bit odd that
> somebody would really not need ANY of watch, alarm clock,
> calendar and calculator.
I've two clocks at home, not to mention the computer, I've a
clock on the bicycle, and I've a clock in the car. Why on
earth would I need a watch equivalent?
One of the clocks at home is an alarm clock, though now that
I'm retired I almost never need to use it. I may need to
use one if I'm travelling, but in that case I'm almost
certainly staying in a hotel, where one is provided.
For the most part my very limited engagement calendar is in
my head, though I do note a few important appointments on
the calendar in the kitchen on which I also record my
bicycle rides; anything more would be overkill that I'd
never use anyway. And if I really need to know on what day
of the week a given date falls when I'm out and about, I can
calculate it easily enough.
Finally, the odds against my needing to do a calculation
that I can't do in my head, or at least with pen and paper,
when I'm away from home are enormous.
> Not need them so little that a widget half the size of my
> palm is too much hassle to drop in a pocket or whatnot.
often the only pockets available. More to the point, why
spend money on things that I don't need and in some cases
actively don't want?
[...]
Brian
J. Clarke
May 20, 2013, 1:18:19 AM5/20/13
to
In article <zc-dnUVsw7wW5gTM...@earthlink.com>,
sou...@netcom.com says...
OCR of handwriting is difficult. On the other hand, OneNote does
convert handwriting into searchable text, but it uses a lot more
information than the letter shapes and only works for text that was
handwritten in OneNote.
sou...@netcom.com says...
convert handwriting into searchable text, but it uses a lot more
information than the letter shapes and only works for text that was
handwritten in OneNote.
Gene Wirchenko
May 20, 2013, 1:50:48 AM5/20/13
to
>On 5/18/13 10:59 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <13689...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>> :: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>>
>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>>
>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>> ten or twelve ways.
> No, you're just back to the way you were before you had it. It's not
>like having those awesome capabilities changes what you had before. I've
>left my phone behind on a couple of occasions; it's an annoyance, but
>mainly because I'm saying "but how PRIMITIVE this is!" when I realize I
>have to get to a land line.
ObSF: _Memory_ and Illyan using a notepad.
>> In article <13689...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>> :: "John F. Eldredge" <j...@jfeldredge.com>
>>
>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>>
>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>> ten or twelve ways.
> No, you're just back to the way you were before you had it. It's not
>like having those awesome capabilities changes what you had before. I've
>left my phone behind on a couple of occasions; it's an annoyance, but
>mainly because I'm saying "but how PRIMITIVE this is!" when I realize I
>have to get to a land line.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
May 20, 2013, 7:01:10 AM5/20/13
to
On 5/19/13 1:07 PM, Greg Goss wrote:
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, 19 May 2013 00:42:05 UTC+1, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>>> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
>>> watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
>>> my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
>>
>> I'm overweight and I cycle regularly, which means perspiring a lot;
>> my previous wristwatch was looking the worse for it - now I'm wearing
>> a towel sweatband on my wrist with the watch on top of it.
>
> I'm overweight and sweat a lot. At a couple of previous jobs, there
> were visible salt lines on the shirts as they went into the washer.
>
> I've never seen any impact of the sweat on my watches. I've had one
> or two nylon straps, but usually either an expansion bracelet or a
> "Z-clip" that locks non-expanding metal links into place. The only
> kind of bracelet that I could imagine caring about sweat might be
> leather, in which case, "don't do leather".
Leather and vinyl were both sweaty, and woven metal and metal link
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, 19 May 2013 00:42:05 UTC+1, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>>> Nah, I never carried either watch or phone for years. I had many
>>> watches, but their bands either broke or just irritated the hell out of
>>> my wrist so I couldn't wear them.
>>
>> I'm overweight and I cycle regularly, which means perspiring a lot;
>> my previous wristwatch was looking the worse for it - now I'm wearing
>> a towel sweatband on my wrist with the watch on top of it.
>
> I'm overweight and sweat a lot. At a couple of previous jobs, there
> were visible salt lines on the shirts as they went into the washer.
>
> I've never seen any impact of the sweat on my watches. I've had one
> or two nylon straps, but usually either an expansion bracelet or a
> "Z-clip" that locks non-expanding metal links into place. The only
> kind of bracelet that I could imagine caring about sweat might be
> leather, in which case, "don't do leather".
straps ripped my hair painfully off around my wrists. Plus metal and me
tend to disagree unless it's one of the noble metals; strap clips,
rings, whatever, they rot away and snap way before anyone would expect
them to.
Kip Williams
May 20, 2013, 7:43:54 AM5/20/13
to
Howard Brazee wrote, On 5/19/13 10:22 PM:
depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
functions.
Kip W
rasfw
> On Sun, 19 May 2013 02:59:27 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
>
>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>>
>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>> ten or twelve ways.
>
> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
I don't know about that. If you have a cell phone and have come to
> Heydt) wrote:
>
>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>>
>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>> ten or twelve ways.
>
> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
functions.
Kip W
rasfw
Kip Williams
May 20, 2013, 7:45:17 AM5/20/13
to
Howard Brazee wrote, On 5/19/13 10:22 PM:
> On Sun, 19 May 2013 02:59:27 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
>
>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>>
>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>> ten or twelve ways.
>
> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
> Heydt) wrote:
>
>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>>
>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>> ten or twelve ways.
>
> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
Howard Brazee
May 20, 2013, 9:01:45 AM5/20/13
to
On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:43:54 -0400, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>>> ten or twelve ways.
>>
>> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
>
>I don't know about that. If you have a cell phone and have come to
>depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
>to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
>functions.
Which functions are you referring to?
Someone who loses his phone (map app) is like a map user who lost his
map.
Someone who loses his phone (camera)is like a camera use who lost his
camera.
Someone who loses his phone twitter is like a twit without anything.
Someone who loses his phone calculator is like a calculator user
without his calculator.
wrote:
>>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>>> ten or twelve ways.
>>
>> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
>
>I don't know about that. If you have a cell phone and have come to
>depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
>to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
>functions.
Someone who loses his phone (map app) is like a map user who lost his
map.
Someone who loses his phone (camera)is like a camera use who lost his
camera.
Someone who loses his phone twitter is like a twit without anything.
Someone who loses his phone calculator is like a calculator user
without his calculator.
David DeLaney
May 20, 2013, 10:21:40 AM5/20/13
to
On 2013-05-20, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
>
>>Yes. Better to remove the possibility of using a cellphone the many
>>thousands of times it'd be useful, so you won't have to notice any
>>inconvenience the one time it is not available. Better not to love
>>at all than to love and lose. Better to not bother lighting a candle,
>>because the cursed thing would probably go out sometime anyways.
>
> It doesn't work anymore to write a story where the bad guys cut the
> phone line before attacking.
But taking out the local cell phone towers works great!
> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
>
>>Yes. Better to remove the possibility of using a cellphone the many
>>thousands of times it'd be useful, so you won't have to notice any
>>inconvenience the one time it is not available. Better not to love
>>at all than to love and lose. Better to not bother lighting a candle,
>>because the cursed thing would probably go out sometime anyways.
>
> It doesn't work anymore to write a story where the bad guys cut the
> phone line before attacking.
Dave, so it's not localized-to-one-house terror. More bang for the crime buck!
PS: Hmmm, and the local satellite dishes as well, I guess?
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
May 20, 2013, 10:32:01 AM5/20/13
to
On 5/20/13 10:21 AM, David DeLaney wrote:
> On 2013-05-20, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. Better to remove the possibility of using a cellphone the many
>>> thousands of times it'd be useful, so you won't have to notice any
>>> inconvenience the one time it is not available. Better not to love
>>> at all than to love and lose. Better to not bother lighting a candle,
>>> because the cursed thing would probably go out sometime anyways.
>>
>> It doesn't work anymore to write a story where the bad guys cut the
>> phone line before attacking.
>
> But taking out the local cell phone towers works great!
>
> Dave, so it's not localized-to-one-house terror. More bang for the crime buck!
>
> PS: Hmmm, and the local satellite dishes as well, I guess?
>
Well, there are cell-phone denial devices that scramble signals within
> On 2013-05-20, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. Better to remove the possibility of using a cellphone the many
>>> thousands of times it'd be useful, so you won't have to notice any
>>> inconvenience the one time it is not available. Better not to love
>>> at all than to love and lose. Better to not bother lighting a candle,
>>> because the cursed thing would probably go out sometime anyways.
>>
>> It doesn't work anymore to write a story where the bad guys cut the
>> phone line before attacking.
>
> But taking out the local cell phone towers works great!
>
> Dave, so it's not localized-to-one-house terror. More bang for the crime buck!
>
> PS: Hmmm, and the local satellite dishes as well, I guess?
>
some radius; I guess that would be the equivalent of cutting the line
(although for many houses you would ALSO have to cut the line, since
many people have both types of phone in the house).
Satellite phones are completely different beasts, and a lot rarer in
most places.
Wayne Throop
May 20, 2013, 11:04:34 AM5/20/13
to
: Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
: If you have a cell phone and have come to depend on it for several
whatnot) and you come to depend on it for shelter and places to keep your
stuff and so on, you'll be at a disadvantate compared to a homeless guy.
The homeless guy knows where all the shelter and soup kitchens and such
are, and is much more fluent and practiced in doing things without a
house. So... does this mean one should not buy a house, because one might
lose it some day and be at a disadvantage compared to a homeless guy?
Similarly with air conditioning, electricity, roads, farm implements,
and on and on and on.
And what about horses? If you had a horse and it keeled over, you'd be
at a disadvantage wrt somebody who can run *down* a horse over a period
of days because of the horse's need for grazing opportunities. No wait.
You'd be at a disadvantage there whether you had a horse or not. Hm.
Sump'n amiss here. I'll run through it again.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
--- Lewis Black
: If you have a cell phone and have come to depend on it for several
: functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage to somebody who never
: had one and uses other means to fulfill those functions.
Stipulated. So, in the same sense, if you have a house (or appartment or
: had one and uses other means to fulfill those functions.
whatnot) and you come to depend on it for shelter and places to keep your
stuff and so on, you'll be at a disadvantate compared to a homeless guy.
The homeless guy knows where all the shelter and soup kitchens and such
are, and is much more fluent and practiced in doing things without a
house. So... does this mean one should not buy a house, because one might
lose it some day and be at a disadvantage compared to a homeless guy?
Similarly with air conditioning, electricity, roads, farm implements,
and on and on and on.
And what about horses? If you had a horse and it keeled over, you'd be
at a disadvantage wrt somebody who can run *down* a horse over a period
of days because of the horse's need for grazing opportunities. No wait.
You'd be at a disadvantage there whether you had a horse or not. Hm.
Sump'n amiss here. I'll run through it again.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
--- Lewis Black
Wayne Throop
May 20, 2013, 11:21:08 AM5/20/13
to
::: It doesn't work anymore to write a story where the bad guys cut the
: "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com>
: Well, there are cell-phone denial devices that scramble signals within
what with the orbital delay, but so far as I know, it's feasible.)
So probably best to take down the dishes (though that might give warning
when the TV goes out). And then there's various wireless internet
providers, depending on location. And even if you don't route phone
over your ISP, you've got IM and such to call for help.
Of course, if your ISP is your cable company, that just adds an extra
wired connection to cut... but as an attacker, have you *really* cut
all the right wires? It adds quite the level of complexity.
::: phone line before attacking.
:: But taking out the local cell phone towers works great!
:: PS: Hmmm, and the local satellite dishes as well, I guess?
:: But taking out the local cell phone towers works great!
: "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com>
: Well, there are cell-phone denial devices that scramble signals within
: some radius; I guess that would be the equivalent of cutting the line
: (although for many houses you would ALSO have to cut the line, since
: many people have both types of phone in the house).
:
: Satellite phones are completely different beasts, and a lot rarer in
: most places.
What about if you use Hugesnet and Vonage for your phone? (Seems unlikely
: (although for many houses you would ALSO have to cut the line, since
: many people have both types of phone in the house).
:
: Satellite phones are completely different beasts, and a lot rarer in
: most places.
what with the orbital delay, but so far as I know, it's feasible.)
So probably best to take down the dishes (though that might give warning
when the TV goes out). And then there's various wireless internet
providers, depending on location. And even if you don't route phone
over your ISP, you've got IM and such to call for help.
Of course, if your ISP is your cable company, that just adds an extra
wired connection to cut... but as an attacker, have you *really* cut
all the right wires? It adds quite the level of complexity.
David Dyer-Bennet
May 20, 2013, 1:34:27 PM5/20/13
to
David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> writes:
> On 2013-05-20, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
>>
>>>Yes. Better to remove the possibility of using a cellphone the many
>>>thousands of times it'd be useful, so you won't have to notice any
>>>inconvenience the one time it is not available. Better not to love
>>>at all than to love and lose. Better to not bother lighting a candle,
>>>because the cursed thing would probably go out sometime anyways.
>>
>> It doesn't work anymore to write a story where the bad guys cut the
>> phone line before attacking.
>
> But taking out the local cell phone towers works great!
>
> Dave, so it's not localized-to-one-house terror. More bang for the crime buck!
My cell phone still works if they take out the tower -- local
> On 2013-05-20, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>> thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
>>
>>>Yes. Better to remove the possibility of using a cellphone the many
>>>thousands of times it'd be useful, so you won't have to notice any
>>>inconvenience the one time it is not available. Better not to love
>>>at all than to love and lose. Better to not bother lighting a candle,
>>>because the cursed thing would probably go out sometime anyways.
>>
>> It doesn't work anymore to write a story where the bad guys cut the
>> phone line before attacking.
>
> But taking out the local cell phone towers works great!
>
> Dave, so it's not localized-to-one-house terror. More bang for the crime buck!
micro-cell. They have to kill both the DSL line and the cell towers.
Jerry Brown
May 20, 2013, 2:36:06 PM5/20/13
to
On Sun, 19 May 2013 22:50:48 -0700, Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net>
wrote:
"Audiofiler" IIRC.
--
Jerry Brown
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
wrote:
--
Jerry Brown
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Kip Williams
May 20, 2013, 4:29:08 PM5/20/13
to
Wayne Throop wrote, On 5/20/13 11:04 AM:
> Similarly with air conditioning, electricity, roads, farm implements,
> and on and on and on.
>
> And what about horses? If you had a horse and it keeled over, you'd be
> at a disadvantage wrt somebody who can run *down* a horse over a period
> of days because of the horse's need for grazing opportunities. No wait.
> You'd be at a disadvantage there whether you had a horse or not. Hm.
> Sump'n amiss here. I'll run through it again.
There are other factors. It's like how I don't make each and every
decision in life according to whether it contributes to getting the lawn
mowed, for instance.
Kip W
rasfw
> : Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
> : If you have a cell phone and have come to depend on it for several
> : functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage to somebody who never
> : had one and uses other means to fulfill those functions.
>
> Stipulated. So, in the same sense, if you have a house (or appartment or
> whatnot) and you come to depend on it for shelter and places to keep your
> stuff and so on, you'll be at a disadvantate compared to a homeless guy.
> The homeless guy knows where all the shelter and soup kitchens and such
> are, and is much more fluent and practiced in doing things without a
> house. So... does this mean one should not buy a house, because one might
> lose it some day and be at a disadvantage compared to a homeless guy?
I'm going to say "no" to that conclusion.
> : If you have a cell phone and have come to depend on it for several
> : functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage to somebody who never
> : had one and uses other means to fulfill those functions.
>
> Stipulated. So, in the same sense, if you have a house (or appartment or
> whatnot) and you come to depend on it for shelter and places to keep your
> stuff and so on, you'll be at a disadvantate compared to a homeless guy.
> The homeless guy knows where all the shelter and soup kitchens and such
> are, and is much more fluent and practiced in doing things without a
> house. So... does this mean one should not buy a house, because one might
> lose it some day and be at a disadvantage compared to a homeless guy?
> Similarly with air conditioning, electricity, roads, farm implements,
> and on and on and on.
>
> And what about horses? If you had a horse and it keeled over, you'd be
> at a disadvantage wrt somebody who can run *down* a horse over a period
> of days because of the horse's need for grazing opportunities. No wait.
> You'd be at a disadvantage there whether you had a horse or not. Hm.
> Sump'n amiss here. I'll run through it again.
decision in life according to whether it contributes to getting the lawn
mowed, for instance.
Kip W
rasfw
Kip Williams
May 20, 2013, 4:30:03 PM5/20/13
to
Howard Brazee wrote, On 5/20/13 9:01 AM:
different. But there's the phone function, the camera function, the web,
the clock, data storage, and puppy picture showing.
> Someone who loses his phone (map app) is like a map user who lost his
> map.
> Someone who loses his phone (camera)is like a camera use who lost his
> camera.
> Someone who loses his phone twitter is like a twit without anything.
> Someone who loses his phone calculator is like a calculator user
> without his calculator.
This must be why I didn't spell it all out. Boring.
Kip W
rasfw
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:43:54 -0400, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>>>> ten or twelve ways.
>>>
>>> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
>>
>> I don't know about that. If you have a cell phone and have come to
>> depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
>> to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
>> functions.
>
> Which functions are you referring to?
Why should I enumerate them? Everybody's situation is slightly
> wrote:
>
>>>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>>>> ten or twelve ways.
>>>
>>> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
>>
>> I don't know about that. If you have a cell phone and have come to
>> depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
>> to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
>> functions.
>
> Which functions are you referring to?
different. But there's the phone function, the camera function, the web,
the clock, data storage, and puppy picture showing.
> Someone who loses his phone (map app) is like a map user who lost his
> map.
> Someone who loses his phone (camera)is like a camera use who lost his
> camera.
> Someone who loses his phone twitter is like a twit without anything.
> Someone who loses his phone calculator is like a calculator user
> without his calculator.
Kip W
rasfw
Robert Carnegie
May 20, 2013, 5:47:32 PM5/20/13
to
On Monday, 20 May 2013 18:34:27 UTC+1, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> [Story cliche, home invader cuts phone line]
thinks it's connected but it isn't. But beyond a
certain point, it's easier to go in with tear gas.
> [Story cliche, home invader cuts phone line]
> My cell phone still works if they take out the tower --
> local micro-cell. They have to kill both the DSL line
> and the cell towers.
I suppose they maybe could /hack/ the DSL so that it
> local micro-cell. They have to kill both the DSL line
> and the cell towers.
thinks it's connected but it isn't. But beyond a
certain point, it's easier to go in with tear gas.
Simon Brown
May 20, 2013, 6:29:39 PM5/20/13
to
"Kip Williams" <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Z%nmt.4427$OS5....@newsfe24.iad...
> Howard Brazee wrote, On 5/19/13 10:22 PM:
>> On Sun, 19 May 2013 02:59:27 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out
>>>> of
>>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email
>>>> client,
>>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>>>
>>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>>> ten or twelve ways.
>>
>> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
> I don't know about that.
I do.
>> On Sun, 19 May 2013 02:59:27 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out
>>>> of
>>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email
>>>> client,
>>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>>>
>>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>>> ten or twelve ways.
>>
>> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
> I don't know about that.
> If you have a cell phone and have come to depend on it for several
> functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage to somebody who never had
> one and uses other means to fulfill those functions.
before you started using the cell phone, so you aren't any
more screwed than someone who doesn't have one at all.
Unless your Alzheimer's is so bad that you can't work out
how you used to do it before the cell phone. Even that is
very unlikely, you are much more likely to forget how to
do it with the cell phone but be able to remember how
you did it before the cell phone.
Wayne Throop
May 20, 2013, 6:40:18 PM5/20/13
to
: Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com>
: I suppose they maybe could /hack/ the DSL so that it thinks it's
to request help, how does tear gas advance that goal?
: I suppose they maybe could /hack/ the DSL so that it thinks it's
: connected but it isn't. But beyond a certain point, it's easier to go
: in with tear gas.
Um. Since the goal was to prevent the inhabitants contacting anybody
: in with tear gas.
to request help, how does tear gas advance that goal?
Kip Williams
May 20, 2013, 7:59:49 PM5/20/13
to
Simon Brown wrote, On 5/20/13 6:29 PM:
So before you had your cell phone, you had a little notebook full of
phone numbers. So when the day comes that you need some number and your
phone has just vanished and you need to make that call right now, well,
then you just reach into your other pocket and get those numbers.
Because of course you were updating that little notebook every time you
called some new person or were called by them or got their number in a
text message, right? It just stands to reason.
Repeat for every other function.
Kip W
rasfw
phone numbers. So when the day comes that you need some number and your
phone has just vanished and you need to make that call right now, well,
then you just reach into your other pocket and get those numbers.
Because of course you were updating that little notebook every time you
called some new person or were called by them or got their number in a
text message, right? It just stands to reason.
Repeat for every other function.
Kip W
rasfw
Howard Brazee
May 20, 2013, 8:01:49 PM5/20/13
to
On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:30:03 -0400, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> I don't know about that. If you have a cell phone and have come to
>>> depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
>>> to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
>>> functions.
>>
>> Which functions are you referring to?
>
>Why should I enumerate them? Everybody's situation is slightly
>different. But there's the phone function, the camera function, the web,
>the clock, data storage, and puppy picture showing.
>
>> Someone who loses his phone (map app) is like a map user who lost his
>> map.
>> Someone who loses his phone (camera)is like a camera use who lost his
>> camera.
>> Someone who loses his phone twitter is like a twit without anything.
>> Someone who loses his phone calculator is like a calculator user
>> without his calculator.
>
>This must be why I didn't spell it all out. Boring.
I listed functions that contradicted your statement. I can't think
of anything that makes losing a smart phone more vulnerable than
someone who chose to not have a smart phone, but not have a multitude
of replacements for it.
wrote:
>>> I don't know about that. If you have a cell phone and have come to
>>> depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
>>> to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
>>> functions.
>>
>> Which functions are you referring to?
>
>Why should I enumerate them? Everybody's situation is slightly
>different. But there's the phone function, the camera function, the web,
>the clock, data storage, and puppy picture showing.
>
>> Someone who loses his phone (map app) is like a map user who lost his
>> map.
>> Someone who loses his phone (camera)is like a camera use who lost his
>> camera.
>> Someone who loses his phone twitter is like a twit without anything.
>> Someone who loses his phone calculator is like a calculator user
>> without his calculator.
>
>This must be why I didn't spell it all out. Boring.
of anything that makes losing a smart phone more vulnerable than
someone who chose to not have a smart phone, but not have a multitude
of replacements for it.
Robert Carnegie
May 20, 2013, 10:03:33 PM5/20/13
to
I think. You can't see and you can't talk.
I suppose you could use one of those alarm pendants, though.
Anyway, I don't exactly /mean/ to recommend it.
William December Starr
May 20, 2013, 10:36:19 PM5/20/13
to
In article <b75e8916-6503-4e82...@googlegroups.com>,
> tear gas.
-- wds
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> said:
> David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>
>> [Story cliche, home invader cuts phone line]
>> My cell phone still works if they take out the tower --
>> local micro-cell. They have to kill both the DSL line
>> and the cell towers.
>
> I suppose they maybe could /hack/ the DSL so that it
> thinks it's connected but it isn't. But beyond a
> certain point, it's easier to go in with
an EMP bomb?
> David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>
>> [Story cliche, home invader cuts phone line]
>> My cell phone still works if they take out the tower --
>> local micro-cell. They have to kill both the DSL line
>> and the cell towers.
>
> I suppose they maybe could /hack/ the DSL so that it
> thinks it's connected but it isn't. But beyond a
> certain point, it's easier to go in with
> tear gas.
-- wds
Walter Bushell
May 20, 2013, 11:05:44 PM5/20/13
to
In article <f1omt.4428$OS5....@newsfe24.iad>,
These days I don't know anyone's phone number. If you have a flip
phone no one will steal it.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
phone no one will steal it.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Wayne Throop
May 20, 2013, 11:46:51 PM5/20/13
to
::: I suppose they maybe could /hack/ the DSL so that it thinks it's
: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas> : should work, I think. You
or even just calling 911 and letting the sound effects of the assault
go out via the phone, won't be brought to the attention of the police?
::: connected but it isn't. But beyond a certain point, it's easier to
::: go in with tear gas.
:: Um. Since the goal was to prevent the inhabitants contacting anybody
:: to request help, how does tear gas advance that goal?
: Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com>
::: go in with tear gas.
:: Um. Since the goal was to prevent the inhabitants contacting anybody
:: to request help, how does tear gas advance that goal?
: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas> : should work, I think. You
: can't see and you can't talk.
So, calling 911 (or equivalent) and moaning inarticulately into the mic,
or even just calling 911 and letting the sound effects of the assault
go out via the phone, won't be brought to the attention of the police?
Joy Beeson
May 20, 2013, 11:47:58 PM5/20/13
to
On Tue, 21 May 2013 08:29:39 +1000, "Simon Brown" <s...@kigfr.com>
wrote:
> No, because you can just do it the way you used to do it
> before you started using the cell phone,
What I did before the cell phone was use infrastructure which no
longer exists, which is why I got the cell phone.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://www.debeeson.net/joy/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
wrote:
> No, because you can just do it the way you used to do it
> before you started using the cell phone,
longer exists, which is why I got the cell phone.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://www.debeeson.net/joy/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
Tim McDaniel
May 21, 2013, 1:18:53 AM5/21/13
to
In article <avsf63...@mid.individual.net>,
On the other hand (snrk), I HAVE seen the impact of sweat on my smart
phone. I had my smartphone in my jeans pocket, its face against my
leg. Turns out my sweaty leg can imitate a finger quite well. I
metaphorically butt-dialed 911 (the US emergency services number), as
an emergency call is on the main lock screen. I did stammer out an
explanantion that the operator accepted. I have heard that, if it
sounds suspicious, they posit that a victim might have dialed 911 but
the criminal took the phone away before the call was answered, so they
send a few suspicious police officers to approach you.
I got a cover for the screen ASAP.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
On the other hand (snrk), I HAVE seen the impact of sweat on my smart
phone. I had my smartphone in my jeans pocket, its face against my
leg. Turns out my sweaty leg can imitate a finger quite well. I
metaphorically butt-dialed 911 (the US emergency services number), as
an emergency call is on the main lock screen. I did stammer out an
explanantion that the operator accepted. I have heard that, if it
sounds suspicious, they posit that a victim might have dialed 911 but
the criminal took the phone away before the call was answered, so they
send a few suspicious police officers to approach you.
I got a cover for the screen ASAP.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
ppint. at pplay
May 21, 2013, 1:20:02 AM5/21/13
to
- hi; in article, <h72jp8tgqmtp0hlel...@4ax.com>,
how...@brazee.net "Howard Brazee" re-related:
>I have mentioned before - I bought my first cell phone after someone
>saved my wife's life by calling 911 after she was in a car accident.
>I owe big time, and I'm not going to fail to pay forward because I
>didn't have a phone with me.
- *nods* there are some debts one can only "pay forward".
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"the good thing about being extremely silly
is that almost everything is funny :-))"
- claire dickenson, aet. 8, 25/7/98 (7/25/98 for merkins)
how...@brazee.net "Howard Brazee" re-related:
>I have mentioned before - I bought my first cell phone after someone
>saved my wife's life by calling 911 after she was in a car accident.
>I owe big time, and I'm not going to fail to pay forward because I
>didn't have a phone with me.
- *nods* there are some debts one can only "pay forward".
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"the good thing about being extremely silly
is that almost everything is funny :-))"
- claire dickenson, aet. 8, 25/7/98 (7/25/98 for merkins)
Gene Wirchenko
May 21, 2013, 2:27:28 AM5/21/13
to
On Mon, 20 May 2013 09:21:40 -0500, David DeLaney
<davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
[snip]
>But taking out the local cell phone towers works great!
>
>Dave, so it's not localized-to-one-house terror. More bang for the crime buck!
And since it affects more, LEO have a harder time figuring out
the target. Or one can have more targets.
Different tech, different stories, but same genre.
>PS: Hmmm, and the local satellite dishes as well, I guess?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
<davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
[snip]
>But taking out the local cell phone towers works great!
>
>Dave, so it's not localized-to-one-house terror. More bang for the crime buck!
the target. Or one can have more targets.
Different tech, different stories, but same genre.
>PS: Hmmm, and the local satellite dishes as well, I guess?
Gene Wirchenko
Robert Carnegie
May 21, 2013, 7:41:56 AM5/21/13
to
On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 04:46:51 UTC+1, Wayne Throop wrote:
> : Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com>
>
> : <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas> : should work,
> : I think. You can't see and you can't talk.
>
> So, calling 911 (or equivalent) and moaning inarticulately
> into the mic, or even just calling 911 and letting the sound
> effects of the assault go out via the phone, won't be brought
> to the attention of the police?
You'll have to find the phone and find 911. You can probably
> : Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com>
>
> : <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas> : should work,
> : I think. You can't see and you can't talk.
>
> So, calling 911 (or equivalent) and moaning inarticulately
> into the mic, or even just calling 911 and letting the sound
> effects of the assault go out via the phone, won't be brought
> to the attention of the police?
do it if you've practised, but - I don't say "I'll take the
chance", but in the unlikely event that I was your home
invader, with tear gas, it wouldn't be my number one worry.
Anyway, I can escalate the hypothetical attack if you really
think tear gas won't do it. It does occur to me that you
don't hear of it being often used in such cases. Maybe it's
hard to get hold of? But you hear of criminals synthesizing
all sorts of chemicals for their own use or for sale.
J. Clarke
May 21, 2013, 8:36:32 AM5/21/13
to
In article <avvmff...@mid.individual.net>, s...@kigfr.com says...
> Unless your Alzheimer's is so bad that you can't work out
> how you used to do it before the cell phone. Even that is
> very unlikely, you are much more likely to forget how to
> do it with the cell phone but be able to remember how
> you did it before the cell phone.
You're making an assumption here. Someone born today is likely never
going have known a time when he used some method other than a tablet or
cell phone for these various purposes.
Losing your cell phone today is more analogous to losing your briefcase
and all of its contents than to losing, say, a transistor radio.
>
> "Kip Williams" <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Z%nmt.4427$OS5....@newsfe24.iad...
> > Howard Brazee wrote, On 5/19/13 10:22 PM:
> >> On Sun, 19 May 2013 02:59:27 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >> Heydt) wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
> >>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out
> >>>> of
> >>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email
> >>>> client,
> >>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
> >>>
> >>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
> >>> ten or twelve ways.
> >>
> >> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
>
> > I don't know about that.
>
> I do.
>
> > If you have a cell phone and have come to depend on it for several
> > functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage to somebody who never had
> > one and uses other means to fulfill those functions.
>
> No, because you can just do it the way you used to do it
> before you started using the cell phone, so you aren't any
> more screwed than someone who doesn't have one at all.
And if you always used a cell phone for the purpose?
> "Kip Williams" <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Z%nmt.4427$OS5....@newsfe24.iad...
> > Howard Brazee wrote, On 5/19/13 10:22 PM:
> >> On Sun, 19 May 2013 02:59:27 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >> Heydt) wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
> >>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out
> >>>> of
> >>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email
> >>>> client,
> >>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
> >>>
> >>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
> >>> ten or twelve ways.
> >>
> >> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
>
> > I don't know about that.
>
> I do.
>
> > If you have a cell phone and have come to depend on it for several
> > functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage to somebody who never had
> > one and uses other means to fulfill those functions.
>
> No, because you can just do it the way you used to do it
> before you started using the cell phone, so you aren't any
> more screwed than someone who doesn't have one at all.
> Unless your Alzheimer's is so bad that you can't work out
> how you used to do it before the cell phone. Even that is
> very unlikely, you are much more likely to forget how to
> do it with the cell phone but be able to remember how
> you did it before the cell phone.
going have known a time when he used some method other than a tablet or
cell phone for these various purposes.
Losing your cell phone today is more analogous to losing your briefcase
and all of its contents than to losing, say, a transistor radio.
J. Clarke
May 21, 2013, 8:38:02 AM5/21/13
to
In article <ea4359fd-0aff-4fb2...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com says...
MMMMMFFFFF the police will be sent right quick.
rja.ca...@excite.com says...
>
> On Monday, 20 May 2013 23:40:18 UTC+1, Wayne Throop wrote:
> > : Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com>
> > : I suppose they maybe could /hack/ the DSL so that it thinks it's
> > : connected but it isn't. But beyond a certain point, it's easier to go
> > : in with tear gas.
> >
> > Um. Since the goal was to prevent the inhabitants contacting anybody
> > to request help, how does tear gas advance that goal?
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas> : should work,
> I think. You can't see and you can't talk.
You can still dial 911 by touch and when the operator hears MMMMFFFF
> On Monday, 20 May 2013 23:40:18 UTC+1, Wayne Throop wrote:
> > : Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com>
> > : I suppose they maybe could /hack/ the DSL so that it thinks it's
> > : connected but it isn't. But beyond a certain point, it's easier to go
> > : in with tear gas.
> >
> > Um. Since the goal was to prevent the inhabitants contacting anybody
> > to request help, how does tear gas advance that goal?
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas> : should work,
> I think. You can't see and you can't talk.
MMMMMFFFFF the police will be sent right quick.
J. Clarke
May 21, 2013, 8:39:43 AM5/21/13
to
In article <c5907edd-bb99-4b2e...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com says...
I don't recall any incident in which a criminal tear-gassed a house
before invading. It's certianly a less common practice than cutting the
phone line.
rja.ca...@excite.com says...
before invading. It's certianly a less common practice than cutting the
phone line.
J. Clarke
May 21, 2013, 8:41:04 AM5/21/13
to
In article <knemj3$j6b$1...@panix2.panix.com>, wds...@panix.com says...
Any criminal who can afford an EMP bomb isn't going to be using it to
rob a house, unless maybe it's Bill Gates' house.
> > tear gas.
>
> -- wds
rob a house, unless maybe it's Bill Gates' house.
> > tear gas.
>
> -- wds
James Silverton
May 21, 2013, 8:45:40 AM5/21/13
to
On 5/20/2013 11:05 PM, Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article <f1omt.4428$OS5....@newsfe24.iad>,
> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Howard Brazee wrote, On 5/19/13 10:22 PM:
>>> On Sun, 19 May 2013 02:59:27 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>> Heydt) wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>>>>
>>>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>>>> ten or twelve ways.
>>>
>>> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
>>
>> I don't know about that. If you have a cell phone and have come to
>> depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
>> to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
>> functions.
>>
>>
>> Kip W
>> rasfw
>
> These days I don't know anyone's phone number. If you have a flip
> phone no one will steal it.
>
I'm old-fashioned and still wear a watch (and forget to bring the cell
> In article <f1omt.4428$OS5....@newsfe24.iad>,
> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Howard Brazee wrote, On 5/19/13 10:22 PM:
>>> On Sun, 19 May 2013 02:59:27 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>> Heydt) wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Watch, alarm clock, stopwatch, calculator, calendar, appointment book,
>>>>> notepad, city-to-timezone index (though who would leave Bangalore out of
>>>>> that... but I digress), camera, and optionally web browser, email client,
>>>>> gps navigator... let's see, anything else... oh yes, a phone.
>>>>
>>>> And if you happen to lose it, or it breaks down, you're screwed
>>>> ten or twelve ways.
>>>
>>> No more than someone who doesn't have them at all.
>>
>> I don't know about that. If you have a cell phone and have come to
>> depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
>> to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
>> functions.
>>
>>
>> Kip W
>> rasfw
>
> These days I don't know anyone's phone number. If you have a flip
> phone no one will steal it.
>
phone usually.) The watch has functions like 3 alarms and a stop watch
but I mainly use the calendar, the time synchronization with Fort
Collins and the solar cell battery charger. It was made by Casio and
cost $80.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
Bill Dugan
May 21, 2013, 9:37:44 AM5/21/13
to
windows and throw in tear gas in several places. That sort of attack
would be conspicuous The attackers would run a serious risk that a
neighbor would call 911. OTOH someone wearing clothing that looks like
a phone company uniform could sabotage wiring without anyone outside
paying much attention.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
May 21, 2013, 11:33:50 AM5/21/13
to
On 2013-05-21 09:37:44 -0400, Bill Dugan said:
> On Tue, 21 May 2013 04:41:56 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 04:46:51 UTC+1, Wayne Throop wrote:
>>> : Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com>
>>>
>>> : <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas> : should work,
>>> : I think. You can't see and you can't talk.
>>>
>>> So, calling 911 (or equivalent) and moaning inarticulately
>>> into the mic, or even just calling 911 and letting the sound
>>> effects of the assault go out via the phone, won't be brought
>>> to the attention of the police?
>>
>> You'll have to find the phone and find 911. You can probably
>> do it if you've practised, but - I don't say "I'll take the
>> chance", but in the unlikely event that I was your home
>> invader, with tear gas, it wouldn't be my number one worry.
>> Anyway, I can escalate the hypothetical attack if you really
>> think tear gas won't do it. It does occur to me that you
>> don't hear of it being often used in such cases. Maybe it's
>> hard to get hold of? But you hear of criminals synthesizing
>> all sorts of chemicals for their own use or for sale.
>
> To be sure no one in the house could call, they would need to break
> windows and throw in tear gas in several places.
Depends on the size of the house.
> On Tue, 21 May 2013 04:41:56 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 04:46:51 UTC+1, Wayne Throop wrote:
>>> : Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com>
>>>
>>> : <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas> : should work,
>>> : I think. You can't see and you can't talk.
>>>
>>> So, calling 911 (or equivalent) and moaning inarticulately
>>> into the mic, or even just calling 911 and letting the sound
>>> effects of the assault go out via the phone, won't be brought
>>> to the attention of the police?
>>
>> You'll have to find the phone and find 911. You can probably
>> do it if you've practised, but - I don't say "I'll take the
>> chance", but in the unlikely event that I was your home
>> invader, with tear gas, it wouldn't be my number one worry.
>> Anyway, I can escalate the hypothetical attack if you really
>> think tear gas won't do it. It does occur to me that you
>> don't hear of it being often used in such cases. Maybe it's
>> hard to get hold of? But you hear of criminals synthesizing
>> all sorts of chemicals for their own use or for sale.
>
> To be sure no one in the house could call, they would need to break
> windows and throw in tear gas in several places.
--
Now available on Amazon or B&N: One-Eyed Jack.
Greg Kraft could see ghosts. That didn't mean he could stop them...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1466291532/
Kip Williams
May 21, 2013, 11:34:51 AM5/21/13
to
Bill Dugan wrote, On 5/21/13 9:37 AM:
Anyway, it's only a matter of time now. Since it's been mentioned here,
we can assume that there's a web page devoted to it, and from that we
can deduce that there's a sexual fetish about it as well. And if it
involves the getting-off of the nuts, that means somebody out there may
already be making plans to do it. Probably in a way that earns them a
Darwin.
Kip W
rasfw
we can assume that there's a web page devoted to it, and from that we
can deduce that there's a sexual fetish about it as well. And if it
involves the getting-off of the nuts, that means somebody out there may
already be making plans to do it. Probably in a way that earns them a
Darwin.
Kip W
rasfw
Kip Williams
May 21, 2013, 11:39:52 AM5/21/13
to
Howard Brazee wrote, On 5/20/13 8:01 PM:
statement. I'm looking and I don't see anything there.
Kip W
rasfw
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:30:03 -0400, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>> I don't know about that. If you have a cell phone and have come to
>>>> depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
>>>> to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
>>>> functions.
>>>
>>> Which functions are you referring to?
>>
>> Why should I enumerate them? Everybody's situation is slightly
>> different. But there's the phone function, the camera function, the web,
>> the clock, data storage, and puppy picture showing.
>>
>>> Someone who loses his phone (map app) is like a map user who lost his
>>> map.
>>> Someone who loses his phone (camera)is like a camera use who lost his
>>> camera.
>>> Someone who loses his phone twitter is like a twit without anything.
>>> Someone who loses his phone calculator is like a calculator user
>>> without his calculator.
>>
>> This must be why I didn't spell it all out. Boring.
>
> I listed functions that contradicted your statement. I can't think
> of anything that makes losing a smart phone more vulnerable than
> someone who chose to not have a smart phone, but not have a multitude
> of replacements for it.
Perhaps you'll be good enough to show how any of those contradict my
> wrote:
>
>>>> I don't know about that. If you have a cell phone and have come to
>>>> depend on it for several functions, losing it puts you at a disadvantage
>>>> to somebody who never had one and uses other means to fulfill those
>>>> functions.
>>>
>>> Which functions are you referring to?
>>
>> Why should I enumerate them? Everybody's situation is slightly
>> different. But there's the phone function, the camera function, the web,
>> the clock, data storage, and puppy picture showing.
>>
>>> Someone who loses his phone (map app) is like a map user who lost his
>>> map.
>>> Someone who loses his phone (camera)is like a camera use who lost his
>>> camera.
>>> Someone who loses his phone twitter is like a twit without anything.
>>> Someone who loses his phone calculator is like a calculator user
>>> without his calculator.
>>
>> This must be why I didn't spell it all out. Boring.
>
> I listed functions that contradicted your statement. I can't think
> of anything that makes losing a smart phone more vulnerable than
> someone who chose to not have a smart phone, but not have a multitude
> of replacements for it.
statement. I'm looking and I don't see anything there.
Kip W
rasfw
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