_Feed_ by Mira Grant (aka Seanan McGuire)

[Lynn McGuire]

_Feed_ by Mira Grant (aka Seanan McGuire)
http://www.amazon.com/Feed-Newsflesh-Book-Mira-Grant/dp/0316081051/

OK people, take note. This is how you write a
real science fiction book. First, you get your
science correct! If you have zombies and those
zombies were created by a viral disease, then if
you get any of their blood, spit, etc on you then
you will become infected also ! This is my big
problem with "The Walking Dead" TV show. They are
continuously killing zombies, getting the nasty
blood and guts all over them and no one gets
infected except through a bite from a "living"
zombie. Give me a break!

Ms. McGuire's book is excellent, simply excellent.
My very simple rule is that if you keep me from
turning off the light until I am finished then
this is a five star book. And it is. First, the
science is well thought out and implemented in
the story. Second, the character development is
deep and they are sympathetic. Third, the story
is plausible (what, zombies, no way !).

My rating: 5 out 5 stars
Amazon rating 4.5 out 5 stars (208 reviews)

Please note that although Ms. McGuire and I
share the same middle and last name, we are not
related that I know of.

Michael Lynn McGuire

[Wayne Throop]

: Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
: _Feed_ by Mira Grant (aka Seanan McGuire)

: http://www.amazon.com/Feed-Newsflesh-Book-Mira-Grant/dp/0316081051/
: OK people, take note. This is how you write

: a real science fiction book. [...]
: Ms. McGuire's book is excellent, simply excellent. My very simple

: rule is that if you keep me from turning off the light until I am
: finished then this is a five star book. And it is.

Indeed. I'm eagerly awaiting the third in the series, "Blackout".
And I'll repeat the blurb from iforgetwhere: "a zombie novel
Robert Heinlein might have written". Easily lives up to it.
And I mean that in a good way, in case Heinlein has soured on you.


Our story opens where countless stories have ended in the last
twenty-six years: with an idiot deciding it would be a good idea
to go out and poke a zombie with a stick.
--- Georgia Mason

[Lynn McGuire]

I'll read anything from Heinlein, even post grave
such as _Variable_Star_. I've got TSB and TMIAHM
in the SBR for rereads.

I have been trying to decide if I am an Newsie, an
Irwin or a Fictional. I would like to be a Newsie
but I am afraid that I am probably an Irwin.
Poking a zombie with a stick sounds like fun!

Lynn

[Sean O'Hara]

In the Year of the Rabbit, the Great and Powerful Lynn McGuire declared:

>
> _Feed_ by Mira Grant (aka Seanan McGuire)
> http://www.amazon.com/Feed-Newsflesh-Book-Mira-Grant/dp/0316081051/
>
> OK people, take note. This is how you write a
> real science fiction book. First, you get your
> science correct! If you have zombies and those
> zombies were created by a viral disease, then if
> you get any of their blood, spit, etc on you then
> you will become infected also ! This is my big
> problem with "The Walking Dead" TV show. They are
> continuously killing zombies, getting the nasty
> blood and guts all over them and no one gets
> infected except through a bite from a "living"
> zombie. Give me a break!
>

If you shoot a rabid animal and get its blood on you, do you come down
with hydrophobia?

--
Sean O'Hara <http://diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com>
<http://armybrat.thecomicseries.com/>
<http://www.savagepulp.com/>

[art...@yahoo.com]

On Feb 8, 10:30 am, Sean O'Hara <seanoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the Year of the Rabbit, the Great and Powerful Lynn McGuire declared:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > _Feed_ by Mira Grant (aka Seanan McGuire)
> >    http://www.amazon.com/Feed-Newsflesh-Book-Mira-Grant/dp/0316081051/
>
> > OK people, take note.  This is how you write a
> > real science fiction book.  First, you get your
> > science correct!  If you have zombies and those
> > zombies were created by a viral disease, then if
> > you get any of their blood, spit, etc on you then
> > you will become infected also !  This is my big
> > problem with "The Walking Dead" TV show.  They are
> > continuously killing zombies, getting the nasty
> > blood and guts all over them and no one gets
> > infected except through a bite from a "living"
> > zombie.  Give me a break!
>
> If you shoot a rabid animal and get its blood on you, do you come down
> with hydrophobia?

Dunno, but I heard that at one time, there were so many bats in a cave
in Arizona (Bat cave?) that if you took in an animal in a cage which
had bars that prevented a bat from attacking the animal, the animal
would get rabies just from exposure to bat droppings and other bodily
fluids.

[Lynn McGuire]

On 2/8/2012 9:30 AM, Sean O'Hara wrote:
> In the Year of the Rabbit, the Great and Powerful Lynn McGuire declared:
>
>>
>> _Feed_ by Mira Grant (aka Seanan McGuire)
>> http://www.amazon.com/Feed-Newsflesh-Book-Mira-Grant/dp/0316081051/
>>
>> OK people, take note. This is how you write a
>> real science fiction book. First, you get your
>> science correct! If you have zombies and those
>> zombies were created by a viral disease, then if
>> you get any of their blood, spit, etc on you then
>> you will become infected also ! This is my big
>> problem with "The Walking Dead" TV show. They are
>> continuously killing zombies, getting the nasty
>> blood and guts all over them and no one gets
>> infected except through a bite from a "living"
>> zombie. Give me a break!
>>
>
> If you shoot a rabid animal and get its blood on you, do you come down
> with hydrophobia?

Well, my wife says that I have Hypochondria so I am
already there. And my daughter has Lyme disease
that supposedly came from a deer tick bite.

It depends what you do with the blood from the rabid
animal. If you take the blood and wipe it inside
your nasal passages (yuck !) then I would want to
flamethrower you. If you drink the blood then you
are probably OK because your digestive juices are
capable of killing just about anything.

BTW, the zombie disease in _Feed_ is airborne.
Rabies is not airborne, thank goodness.

Lynn

[Sjouke Burry]

Sean O'Hara <sean...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.299c5f389...@news.eternal-september.org:

> In the Year of the Rabbit, the Great and Powerful Lynn McGuire
declared:
>
>>
>> _Feed_ by Mira Grant (aka Seanan McGuire)
>> http://www.amazon.com/Feed-Newsflesh-Book-Mira-
Grant/dp/0316081051/
>>
>> OK people, take note. This is how you write a
>> real science fiction book. First, you get your
>> science correct! If you have zombies and those
>> zombies were created by a viral disease, then if
>> you get any of their blood, spit, etc on you then
>> you will become infected also ! This is my big
>> problem with "The Walking Dead" TV show. They are
>> continuously killing zombies, getting the nasty
>> blood and guts all over them and no one gets
>> infected except through a bite from a "living"
>> zombie. Give me a break!
>>
>
> If you shoot a rabid animal and get its blood on you, do you come down
> with hydrophobia?
>

Dont shoot animals while you are in the spatter zone.
Dont wait until they(almost) bite you.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <jgub70$ubn$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> writes:
>On 2/8/2012 9:30 AM, Sean O'Hara wrote:

>> If you shoot a rabid animal and get its blood on you, do you come down
>> with hydrophobia?
>
>Well, my wife says that I have Hypochondria so I am

I'd get a second opinion. It might just be in your head.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Reunite Gondwanaland!

[Wayne Throop]

::: If you have zombies and those zombies were created by a viral

::: disease, then if you get any of their blood, spit, etc on you then
::: you will become infected also ! This is my big problem with "The
::: Walking Dead" TV show. They are continuously killing zombies,
::: getting the nasty blood and guts all over them and no one gets
::: infected except through a bite from a "living" zombie. Give me a
::: break!

:: If you shoot a rabid animal and get its blood on you, do you come
:: down with hydrophobia?

: It depends what you do with the blood from the rabid animal.

And the exact nature of the disease. It'd be possible to "tune"
the disease properties to give you the TV version, where direct contact
with open wounds is fatal, but application to unbroken skin is not.

In the Newsflesh Trilogy, the situation is a bit different. The
virus itself is airborne and *every* mammalian critter on the planet
is infected. All you need for the virus already in your bloodstream
to activate and zombify you is contact with the active virus; the
chemical cues that do this are apparently quite invasive.

By the way, that's one way that newsflesh makes things a bit more
plausible. A viral disease that kills and reanimates in minutes or
tens of minutes is implausible... I mean, that's only a few cycles of
virus replication, not enough to flood the whole body... except that you
are *already* just teeming with zombie cooties, and are on the edge of
zombification *all* *the* *time*. So any little thing can take you the
last few percent to full zombification, and it can happen *quick*.


Brains, brains, I won't lie
I'll eat their brains 'til they're zombified
Sure they might think it's deranged
But they won't give it a thought after I've eaten their brains

--- Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy,
"Little Rock of Horrors"

[Kip Williams]

Michael Stemper wrote:
> In article<jgub70$ubn$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire<l...@winsim.com> writes:
>> On 2/8/2012 9:30 AM, Sean O'Hara wrote:
>
>>> If you shoot a rabid animal and get its blood on you, do you come down
>>> with hydrophobia?
>>
>> Well, my wife says that I have Hypochondria so I am
>
> I'd get a second opinion. It might just be in your head.

God, I'll never forget when I first read the symptoms of hypochondria,
and it was just like they were talking about me.


Kip W
rasfw

[Charlton Wilbur]

>>>>> "LMcG" == Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> writes:

LMcG> If you have zombies and those zombies were created by a viral
LMcG> disease, then if you get any of their blood, spit, etc on you
LMcG> then you will become infected also ! This is my big problem
LMcG> with "The Walking Dead" TV show. They are continuously
LMcG> killing zombies, getting the nasty blood and guts all over
LMcG> them and no one gets infected except through a bite from a
LMcG> "living" zombie. Give me a break!

Actually, it's well established in both the comic book and the TV series
that the form of the disease that affects the living immediately is only
transmitted by blood to blood contact. There are currently existing
diseases that work this way: HIV is perhaps the most obvious.

Charlton


--
Charlton Wilbur
cwi...@chromatico.net

[Lynn McGuire]

But this is just not right. Any blood from a zombie
should remain active for a time period of several
hours ? days ? after the host dies. Daryl (the
crossbow wielding redneck) routinely kills zombies
with a head shot and then retrieves the bolt, wiping
it on his pants leg.

BTW, I have yet to read the comic book yet but I do
have the first volume in my SBR.

Lynn

[Wayne Throop]

:: Actually, it's well established in both the comic book and the TV

:: series that the form of the disease that affects the living
:: immediately is only transmitted by blood to blood contact. There are
:: currently existing diseases that work this way: HIV is perhaps the
:: most obvious.

: Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
: But this is just not right. Any blood from a zombie should remain

: active for a time period of several hours ? days ? after the host
: dies.

So that's the "blood..." part.
But where's the "... to blood" part?


: Daryl (the crossbow wielding redneck) routinely kills zombies with a

: head shot and then retrieves the bolt, wiping it on his pants leg.

OK. At this point he has live virus on his pant leg, stipulated.
So how does it get to his bloodstream from there?

Now if he had a small wound on his leg, or if he got some
in his mouth and his gums bled only a little, you might have something.
But otherwise, just getting blood on clothing or even unbroken skin,
naict, not as much having going on there.

Not that I'm saying wiping infected blood on your clothing is
a good idea. Just not necessarily an immediately fatal idea.
Now if it were more like a cold virus like Kellis-Amberlee,
then yes, it's *far* more dangerous. Though even there,
droplets in air and mucous membranes play a role, so on the
pand let might not be fatal, as long as you don't touch your
nose or eyes or whatnot. Elmo will teach you to sneeze
into your own elbow.

"Wash, wash, wash!" --- Elmo

[Lynn McGuire]

Oops, left off the open wounds part. Daryl routinely
has many open wounds from hand to hand fighting with
zombies (he seems to be the cage match guy in the
series).

BTW, in "The Walking Dead", I think that everyone has
the virus, it just has not been activated.

Lynn

[Wayne Throop]

: Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
: Oops, left off the open wounds part.

Ah. Yes, if he's got wounds where zombie blood got on him,
that'd be just as bad, or worse, than a direct bite. Or should be.

And to some extent, just simple caution should make him avoid wiping
infected blood on his pants. He could fall on a thorn bush or a sharp
stick a bit later, and get his clothes punctured. The old one-liner:
"You know what they call teenagers who don't use prophylactics?
Parents." Similarly, you know what they call folks who routinely get
lots of zombie blood on their clothing without immediate and vigorous
antiseptic measures? Zombies.

"Christmas is that magical time of year
when Jesus rises from the grave to
feast on the flesh of the living." --- Peter Griffin

"The living will envy the dead." --- Nikita Khrushchev

"Bah, humbug." --- Ebenezer Scrooge

[Brian Palmer]

Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> writes:

> OK people, take note. This is how you write a
> real science fiction book. First, you get your
> science correct! If you have zombies and those
> zombies were created by a viral disease, then if
> you get any of their blood, spit, etc on you then
> you will become infected also ! This is my big
> problem with "The Walking Dead" TV show. They are
> continuously killing zombies, getting the nasty
> blood and guts all over them and no one gets
> infected except through a bite from a "living"
> zombie. Give me a break!

I am a big fan of the series, and am looking forward to the third. And
the focus on medical hygience to dealing with the zombie virus is
good. But I'm not sure it's 'correct science' to any real depth. Among
other things, this is a virus that apparently gets smarter the more
other bodies it's nearby (but it doesn't appear to be simply tied to
the mass of the body it's inhabiting; but on the other hand, pays
attention to it somewhat by having animals smaller than a dog or
racoon immune from turning. Presumably to deal with the impossibility
of anybody surviving in a city were the rats to zombify)[0]. It's also
a virus that is apparently completely invincible with no variations in
its effects across the entire mammalian biomass.

I wondered about the long term effect of people getting pricked with a
needle in the same spot every few minutes, as apparently the people
outdoors do (tested every time they enter a safe zone, enter a safer
zone , meet a new person ... no mention of weakened veins or the
like).


[0] The zombies get smarter the larger the packs get, and the
government's been collecting every corpse it can get its hands on to
"study" for the past 25 years ... I'm expecting the third book to
involve them realizing the people in power are farming people for
supercomputers.

--
I'm awfully glad I'm a Beta, because I don't work so hard.

[Charlton Wilbur]

>>>>> "LMcG" == Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> writes:

LMcG> BTW, in "The Walking Dead", I think that everyone has the
LMcG> virus, it just has not been activated.

Yes, that's quite well-established both in the books and the television
show. Everyone turns into a zombie upon death.

[Charlton Wilbur]

>>>>> "LMcG" == Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> writes:

>> Actually, it's well established in both the comic book and the TV
>> series that the form of the disease that affects the living
>> immediately is only transmitted by blood to blood contact. There
>> are currently existing diseases that work this way: HIV is
>> perhaps the most obvious.
>>
>> Charlton

LMcG> But this is just not right. Any blood from a zombie should
LMcG> remain active for a time period of several hours ? days ?
LMcG> after the host dies.

Why? HIV, for instance, dies in a matter of moments once the blood
starts to cool.

I mean, you can criticize it on the basis that you don't like the
dramatic results of what the authors have chosen, but when there are
several real-world diseases that actually operate in the same manner as
the fictional zombie plague, it's a bit rich to criticize it for being
scientifically inaccurate.

[Lynn McGuire]

I did not know that about HIV.

Thanks,
Lynn

[David Goldfarb]

In article <87sjiir...@new.chromatico.net>,

Charlton Wilbur <cwi...@chromatico.net> wrote:
>>>>>> "LMcG" == Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> writes:
>
> LMcG> BTW, in "The Walking Dead", I think that everyone has the
> LMcG> virus, it just has not been activated.
>
>Yes, that's quite well-established both in the books and the television
>show. Everyone turns into a zombie upon death.

It's established in the comic, but not in the show (and I'd avoided
bringing up that point in order not to spoil people who've seen the
one but not read the other).

--
David Goldfarb |"I want instant gratification -- and I'm
goldf...@gmail.com | willing to wait for it."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- Patrick Nielsen Hayden

[John F. Eldredge]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:30:51 -0500, Sean O'Hara wrote:

> In the Year of the Rabbit, the Great and Powerful Lynn McGuire declared:
>
>
>> _Feed_ by Mira Grant (aka Seanan McGuire)
>> http://www.amazon.com/Feed-Newsflesh-Book-Mira-Grant/dp/0316081051/
>>
>> OK people, take note. This is how you write a real science fiction
>> book. First, you get your science correct! If you have zombies and
>> those zombies were created by a viral disease, then if you get any of
>> their blood, spit, etc on you then you will become infected also !
>> This is my big problem with "The Walking Dead" TV show. They are
>> continuously killing zombies, getting the nasty blood and guts all over
>> them and no one gets infected except through a bite from a "living"
>> zombie. Give me a break!
>>
>>
> If you shoot a rabid animal and get its blood on you, do you come down
> with hydrophobia?

Possibly so, if you have any breaks in your skin and the animal's blood
gets into your bloodstream. There are documented cases of humans
catching rabies from exposure to an infected animal's saliva.

--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

[Greg Goss]

Charlton Wilbur <cwi...@chromatico.net> wrote:

>Why? HIV, for instance, dies in a matter of moments once the blood
>starts to cool.

Like in a blood bank? Asimov's daughter must be glad to have her
father back again.
--
"Recessions catch what the auditors miss." (Galbraith)

[Leif Roar Moldskred]

John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:

> Possibly so, if you have any breaks in your skin and the animal's blood
> gets into your bloodstream. There are documented cases of humans
> catching rabies from exposure to an infected animal's saliva.

Yes, but the rabies virus is localized to the central nerval system
and salivary glands of the infected animal. It's apparenly not present
in the blood stream:

"Other contact, such as petting a rabid animal, or contact with the
blood, urine, or feces (e.g., guano) of a rabid animal, does not
constitute an exposure and is not an indication for prophylaxis."
http://rabies.emedtv.com/rabies/rabies-transmission.html

--
Leif Roar Moldskred

[Lynn McGuire]

On 2/10/2012 11:13 AM, Charlton Wilbur wrote:

Then why do the blood bank people jump backwards
over possible HIV contamination ?

I guess what is really bothering me about "The
Walking Dead", a excellent, excellent show, is
the fact that 99+% of the population died off in
the first month of the infection. That bespeaks
a particularly virulent disease. Or else the
walking dead were very effective in the first
kill off of the population.

Lynn

[Suzanne Blom]

On 2/13/2012 5:18 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 2/10/2012 11:13 AM, Charlton Wilbur wrote:
>>>>>>> "LMcG" == Lynn McGuire<l...@winsim.com> writes:
>>
>> >> Actually, it's well established in both the comic book and the TV
>> >> series that the form of the disease that affects the living
>> >> immediately is only transmitted by blood to blood contact. There
>> >> are currently existing diseases that work this way: HIV is
>> >> perhaps the most obvious.
>>

>> LMcG> But this is just not right. Any blood from a zombie should
>> LMcG> remain active for a time period of several hours ? days ?
>> LMcG> after the host dies.
>>
>> Why? HIV, for instance, dies in a matter of moments once the blood
>> starts to cool.
>>
>> I mean, you can criticize it on the basis that you don't like the
>> dramatic results of what the authors have chosen, but when there are
>> several real-world diseases that actually operate in the same manner as
>> the fictional zombie plague, it's a bit rich to criticize it for being
>> scientifically inaccurate.
>

> Then why do the blood bank people jump backwards
> over possible HIV contamination ?
>
> I guess what is really bothering me about "The
> Walking Dead", a excellent, excellent show, is
> the fact that 99+% of the population died off in
> the first month of the infection. That bespeaks
> a particularly virulent disease. Or else the
> walking dead were very effective in the first
> kill off of the population.
>

And the living people were naive?

[David Goldfarb]

In article <jhc5og$208$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>I guess what is really bothering me about "The
>Walking Dead", a excellent, excellent show, is
>the fact that 99+% of the population died off in
>the first month of the infection. That bespeaks
>a particularly virulent disease. Or else the
>walking dead were very effective in the first
>kill off of the population.

Everything I've seen in the show and the comic suggests that the
latter is the case; the problem with that is that our hapless little
band of survivors then deals with them far too easily.

(In the comic, we see a fit adult male wearing riot armor able to
take out dozens of walkers at basically zero risk to himself. The
question of where the men with riot armor were during the actual
zombie uprising is never addressed.)

--
David Goldfarb |"My agent's negotiating for a half-hour cooking
goldf...@gmail.com |program, you know..."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "Just cooking?"
|"Cooking and anti-personnel weaponry. Tossing
|salads, tossing bodies -- it's all the same to me."