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Tarzan, the Lost Adventure
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Joy Beeson
Mar 29, 2012, 2:58:54 PM3/29/12
to
_Tarzan, the Lost Adventure_: written by Joe R. Lansdale, illustrated
by Gary Gianni, Michael Kaluta, Charles Vess, and Thomas Yeates,
preface by George T. McWhorter, copyright 1995 by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Inc., Ballantine June 1997.
I'll probably take this back to the library unfinished -- or, rather,
un-middled; I've read the ending.
Nothing wrong with it, but the old magic just isn't there. And it
isn't that I've finally outgrown Burroughs, as my teen-age self
thought I would do, so that I hastened to read as many as I could
while they were still fun. I'm not racing through _Pirates of Venus_,
but I do intend to finish re-reading it.
An edition of _Pirates of Venus_ with scholarly notes! *What* is this
world coming to?
It was right and proper for Mr. Lansdale to refrain from aping
Burroughs -- such attempts rarely improve much on utter disaster --
but McWhorter's preface chooses a singularly un-apt illustration for
his discussion of the writing style: "The syntax is colloquialized
for modern eye and ear, as in the following example from the opening
line of the second to last chapter: 'Tarzan used the flagpole like a
pole vault.'"
Saying "pole vault" when you mean "vaulting pole" is about as modern
and colloquial as saying "bike race" when you mean "racing bike".
It's true that in the description of the fight it would have slipped
by un-noticed, (or, if noticed, would have been the sort of thing one
says when too excited to think) but if Mr. Lansdale had paid as much
attention to the sentence as Mr. McWhorter did, I'm sure he would have
said "Tarzan used the flagpole to pole vault." or, perhaps, he would
have folded in the following sentence " . . . used the flagpole to
vault high and come down on Ebopa's head . . . "
Anyhow, he didn't use it *like* a vaulting pole, it was a pole and he
was vaulting with it, it *was* a vaulting pole -- he used it *as* a
vaulting pole, or *for* a vaulting pole.
And paying that poor little sentence this much excess attention
irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise from my introductory
course in German, fifty years ago: "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit
wasser und sie goss es mit milch."
(The passage stuck in my head because despite the Dick-and-Jane
simplicity, there is no way to translate it into English.)
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
Quadibloc
Mar 29, 2012, 2:16:26 PM3/29/12
to
On Mar 29, 12:58 pm, Joy Beeson <jbee...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> And paying that poor little sentence this much excess attention
> irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise from my introductory
> course in German, fifty years ago: "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit
> wasser und sie goss es mit milch."
>
> (The passage stuck in my head because despite the Dick-and-Jane
> simplicity, there is no way to translate it into English.)
I'm suspecting that the meaning of the sentence could be rendered by
> And paying that poor little sentence this much excess attention
> irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise from my introductory
> course in German, fifty years ago: "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit
> wasser und sie goss es mit milch."
>
> (The passage stuck in my head because despite the Dick-and-Jane
> simplicity, there is no way to translate it into English.)
something like this:
You poured drinks for us. You poured both water and milk.
Of course, it doesn't say that the person addressed formally poured
something to drink, let alone that it was for "us" instead of, say,
"me", or a third person... so, indeed, a _literal_ translation is
impossible.
But to deal with the problem of omitted information, one can use the
passive voice, even though the German doesn't:
You were pouring. You poured both water and milk.
Quite strained, I agree, but English - like most other languages - can
handle almost any idea, one way or another.
John Savard
Greg Goss
Mar 29, 2012, 7:45:48 PM3/29/12
to
Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>And paying that poor little sentence this much excess attention
>irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise from my introductory
>course in German, fifty years ago: "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit
>wasser und sie goss es mit milch."
>
>(The passage stuck in my head because despite the Dick-and-Jane
>simplicity, there is no way to translate it into English.)
Right. Grep-trap me then tell me it can't be translated?
>And paying that poor little sentence this much excess attention
>irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise from my introductory
>course in German, fifty years ago: "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit
>wasser und sie goss es mit milch."
>
>(The passage stuck in my head because despite the Dick-and-Jane
>simplicity, there is no way to translate it into English.)
Google's try: "They poured. It poured with
water and poured it with milk."
So my name means "pour"? I guess it could be worse.
--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.
Brian M. Scott
Mar 29, 2012, 8:17:51 PM3/29/12
to
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:45:48 -0600, Greg Goss
<go...@gossg.org> wrote in
<news:9tkahc...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>> And paying that poor little sentence this much excess
>> attention irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise
>> from my introductory course in German, fifty years ago:
>> "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit wasser und sie goss es
>> mit milch."
>> (The passage stuck in my head because despite the
>> Dick-and-Jane simplicity, there is no way to translate
>> it into English.)
> Right. Grep-trap me then tell me it can't be translated?
> Google's try: "They poured. It poured with water and
> poured it with milk."
It's hard to be sure without context, but most likely:
They watered it. They watered it with water,
and they watered it with milk.
> So my name means "pour"? I guess it could be worse.
<Goss> is the first and third person singular past tense of
<giessen> 'to pour', plus some related secondary meanings,
like 'to water'.
As a surname, however, it's generally from the Old High
German masculine name <Gôßo>, a short form of various
dithematic names like <Gôßbrecht>, <Gôßwald>, and <Gôßwin>.
In other words, it was originally a patronymic.
Brian
<go...@gossg.org> wrote in
<news:9tkahc...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>> And paying that poor little sentence this much excess
>> attention irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise
>> from my introductory course in German, fifty years ago:
>> "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit wasser und sie goss es
>> mit milch."
>> (The passage stuck in my head because despite the
>> Dick-and-Jane simplicity, there is no way to translate
>> it into English.)
> Right. Grep-trap me then tell me it can't be translated?
> Google's try: "They poured. It poured with water and
> poured it with milk."
They watered it. They watered it with water,
and they watered it with milk.
> So my name means "pour"? I guess it could be worse.
<giessen> 'to pour', plus some related secondary meanings,
like 'to water'.
As a surname, however, it's generally from the Old High
German masculine name <Gôßo>, a short form of various
dithematic names like <Gôßbrecht>, <Gôßwald>, and <Gôßwin>.
In other words, it was originally a patronymic.
Brian
Gene Wirchenko
Mar 30, 2012, 1:09:45 AM3/30/12
to
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:45:48 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>And paying that poor little sentence this much excess attention
>>irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise from my introductory
>>course in German, fifty years ago: "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit
>>wasser und sie goss es mit milch."
>>
>>(The passage stuck in my head because despite the Dick-and-Jane
>>simplicity, there is no way to translate it into English.)
>
>Right. Grep-trap me then tell me it can't be translated?
>
>Google's try: "They poured. It poured with
>water and poured it with milk."
>
>So my name means "pour"? I guess it could be worse.
Pour Greg.
>Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>And paying that poor little sentence this much excess attention
>>irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise from my introductory
>>course in German, fifty years ago: "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit
>>wasser und sie goss es mit milch."
>>
>>(The passage stuck in my head because despite the Dick-and-Jane
>>simplicity, there is no way to translate it into English.)
>
>Right. Grep-trap me then tell me it can't be translated?
>
>Google's try: "They poured. It poured with
>water and poured it with milk."
>
>So my name means "pour"? I guess it could be worse.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Matthias Warkus
Mar 31, 2012, 8:24:15 AM3/31/12
to
Am 30.03.12 02:17, schrieb Brian M. Scott:
mawa
--
http://www.prellblog.de
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:45:48 -0600, Greg Goss
> <go...@gossg.org> wrote in
> <news:9tkahc...@mid.individual.net> in
> rec.arts.sf.written:
>
>> Joy Beeson<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> And paying that poor little sentence this much excess
>>> attention irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise
>>> from my introductory course in German, fifty years ago:
>>> "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit wasser und sie goss es
>>> mit milch."
>
>>> (The passage stuck in my head because despite the
>>> Dick-and-Jane simplicity, there is no way to translate
>>> it into English.)
>
>> Right. Grep-trap me then tell me it can't be translated?
>
>> Google's try: "They poured. It poured with water and
>> poured it with milk."
>
> It's hard to be sure without context, but most likely:
>
> They watered it. They watered it with water,
> and they watered it with milk.
She, not they (it's "goss", not "gossen").
> <go...@gossg.org> wrote in
> <news:9tkahc...@mid.individual.net> in
> rec.arts.sf.written:
>
>> Joy Beeson<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> And paying that poor little sentence this much excess
>>> attention irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise
>>> from my introductory course in German, fifty years ago:
>>> "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit wasser und sie goss es
>>> mit milch."
>
>>> (The passage stuck in my head because despite the
>>> Dick-and-Jane simplicity, there is no way to translate
>>> it into English.)
>
>> Right. Grep-trap me then tell me it can't be translated?
>
>> Google's try: "They poured. It poured with water and
>> poured it with milk."
>
> It's hard to be sure without context, but most likely:
>
> They watered it. They watered it with water,
> and they watered it with milk.
mawa
--
http://www.prellblog.de
Matthias Warkus
Mar 31, 2012, 8:25:16 AM3/31/12
to
Am 29.03.12 20:58, schrieb Joy Beeson:
for the lacking) capitalisation which don't make any sense. There is
pretty much nothing of the neutral gender that can be watered except for
"Gebüsch", "Gestrüpp", "Gesträuch" etc. (i.e. shrubbery), and you
seldomly water that, and certainly not with milk...
mawa
--
http://www.prellblog.de
> And paying that poor little sentence this much excess attention
> irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise from my introductory
> course in German, fifty years ago: "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit
> wasser und sie goss es mit milch."
That is an example for two grammatically correct German phrases (except
> irresistibly reminds me of a reading exercise from my introductory
> course in German, fifty years ago: "Sie goss es. Sie goss es mit
> wasser und sie goss es mit milch."
for the lacking) capitalisation which don't make any sense. There is
pretty much nothing of the neutral gender that can be watered except for
"Gebüsch", "Gestrüpp", "Gesträuch" etc. (i.e. shrubbery), and you
seldomly water that, and certainly not with milk...
mawa
--
http://www.prellblog.de
Quadibloc
Mar 31, 2012, 11:52:14 AM3/31/12
to
On Mar 31, 6:25 am, Matthias Warkus <mawar...@googlemail.com> wrote,
in part:
> That is an example
[of?]
English would only be what is to be expected. Although your post
implies the translation is:
You water it. You water it with water and with milk.
The two senses of "water" in English are confusing - how can one
"water" something with a substance other than water, it might also be
asked - but one can always go with
You slake its need for moisture with water and with milk
if that is to be treated as a fatal objection to qualifying as a
translation.
John Savard
in part:
> That is an example
[of?]
>two grammatically correct German phrases
...
> which don't make any sense.
Well, in that case, it not being possible to translate them into
English would only be what is to be expected. Although your post
implies the translation is:
You water it. You water it with water and with milk.
The two senses of "water" in English are confusing - how can one
"water" something with a substance other than water, it might also be
asked - but one can always go with
You slake its need for moisture with water and with milk
if that is to be treated as a fatal objection to qualifying as a
translation.
John Savard
Quadibloc
Mar 31, 2012, 2:20:48 PM3/31/12
to
On Mar 31, 6:24 am, Matthias Warkus <mawar...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> She, not they (it's "goss", not "gossen").
Here, I thought Sie was invariably "you", as against "thou", but
> She, not they (it's "goss", not "gossen").
apparently it can also be "she", with the person of the verb of which
it is the subject making the distinction.
One learns something new every day... I was _wondering_ why Google
Translate threw out "she" for Sie.
John Savard
Brian M. Scott
Mar 31, 2012, 2:46:29 PM3/31/12
to
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:24:15 +0200, Matthias Warkus
<mawa...@googlemail.com> wrote in
<news:jl6t1b$17cr$2...@news.nnrp.de> in rec.arts.sf.written:
I could have sworn that I'd written 'she'! (I did, after
all, describe <goss> as first and third *singular* past
tense.) My fingers must have been reading the Google
version. Thanks.
Brian
<mawa...@googlemail.com> wrote in
<news:jl6t1b$17cr$2...@news.nnrp.de> in rec.arts.sf.written:
all, describe <goss> as first and third *singular* past
tense.) My fingers must have been reading the Google
version. Thanks.
Brian
Brian M. Scott
Mar 31, 2012, 3:03:30 PM3/31/12
to
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:25:16 +0200, Matthias Warkus
<mawa...@googlemail.com> wrote in
<news:jl6t38$17cr$3...@news.nnrp.de> in rec.arts.sf.written:
Actually, it reminded me of the first of these lines from
Lewis Carroll's 'The Hunting of the Snark':
They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care;
They pursued it with forks and hope;
They threatened its life with a railway-share;
They charmed it with smiles and soap.
Brian
<mawa...@googlemail.com> wrote in
<news:jl6t38$17cr$3...@news.nnrp.de> in rec.arts.sf.written:
Lewis Carroll's 'The Hunting of the Snark':
They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care;
They pursued it with forks and hope;
They threatened its life with a railway-share;
They charmed it with smiles and soap.
Brian
Robert Carnegie
Apr 1, 2012, 7:17:41 AM4/1/12
to b.s...@csuohio.edu
Is there a name for the same phrase of words having
more than one meaning, and for using them together?
"She lowered her standards, by raising her glass,
her courage, her eyes, and his hopes." Except that that isn't quite it. Ah yes: "She made no reply,
up her mind, and a dash for the door."
I looked up "baste" in an English-German dictionary
for what you might do with milk (I'm not a cook either),
but there seem to be two different words for that.
David DeLaney
Apr 2, 2012, 7:37:26 PM4/2/12
to
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
"syllepsis", it seems; that song is quoted therefor. (English has words about
what its words do! Vhat a lank-uage!)
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
>Brian M. Scott wrote:
>> Actually, it reminded me of the first of these lines from
>> Lewis Carroll's 'The Hunting of the Snark':
>>
>> They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care;
>> They pursued it with forks and hope;
>> They threatened its life with a railway-share;
>> They charmed it with smiles and soap.
>
>Which doesn't make sense entirely, either.
>
>Is there a name for the same phrase of words having
>more than one meaning, and for using them together?
>
>"She lowered her standards, by raising her glass,
>her courage, her eyes, and his hopes." Except that that isn't quite it.
> Ah yes: "She made no reply, up her mind, and a dash for the door."
Yes; "zeugma". See the Wikipedia examples. Specifically for these, a
>> Actually, it reminded me of the first of these lines from
>> Lewis Carroll's 'The Hunting of the Snark':
>>
>> They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care;
>> They pursued it with forks and hope;
>> They threatened its life with a railway-share;
>> They charmed it with smiles and soap.
>
>Which doesn't make sense entirely, either.
>
>Is there a name for the same phrase of words having
>more than one meaning, and for using them together?
>
>"She lowered her standards, by raising her glass,
>her courage, her eyes, and his hopes." Except that that isn't quite it.
> Ah yes: "She made no reply, up her mind, and a dash for the door."
"syllepsis", it seems; that song is quoted therefor. (English has words about
what its words do! Vhat a lank-uage!)
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Matthias Warkus
Apr 3, 2012, 6:20:18 AM4/3/12
to
Am 31.03.12 20:20, schrieb Quadibloc:
lower-case "sie"?
mawa
--
http://www.prellblog.de
> On Mar 31, 6:24 am, Matthias Warkus<mawar...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> She, not they (it's "goss", not "gossen").
>
> Here, I thought Sie was invariably "you", as against "thou", but
> apparently it can also be "she", with the person of the verb of which
> it is the subject making the distinction.
You've never heard about the difference between upper-case "Sie" and
>
>> She, not they (it's "goss", not "gossen").
>
> Here, I thought Sie was invariably "you", as against "thou", but
> apparently it can also be "she", with the person of the verb of which
> it is the subject making the distinction.
lower-case "sie"?
mawa
--
http://www.prellblog.de
Michael Stemper
Apr 3, 2012, 1:24:24 PM4/3/12
to
In article <e7183fba-560a-4505...@wb9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
German language.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Why doesn't anybody care about apathy?
>On Mar 31, 6:24=A0am, Matthias Warkus <mawar...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> She, not they (it's "goss", not "gossen").
>
>Here, I thought Sie was invariably "you", as against "thou", but
>apparently it can also be "she", with the person of the verb of which
>it is the subject making the distinction.
>
>One learns something new every day...
If that's new to you, you're probably not qualified to discuss the
>> She, not they (it's "goss", not "gossen").
>
>Here, I thought Sie was invariably "you", as against "thou", but
>apparently it can also be "she", with the person of the verb of which
>it is the subject making the distinction.
>
>One learns something new every day...
German language.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Why doesn't anybody care about apathy?
Quadibloc
Apr 3, 2012, 1:44:10 PM4/3/12
to
On Apr 3, 11:24 am, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper)
wrote:
> If that's new to you, you're probably not qualified to discuss the
> German language.
I'm not, but I am qualified to discuss the _English_ language, and
what it is capable of expressing, which was really the topic of my
posts on this particular subject.
John Savard
wrote:
> If that's new to you, you're probably not qualified to discuss the
> German language.
what it is capable of expressing, which was really the topic of my
posts on this particular subject.
John Savard
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