List me this
James Nicoll
out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
list of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ)
which so far looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise).
I'm thinking maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am
trying not to have more than one book per given author per decade
(but where the books are actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
1950s:
Starship Troopers (Robert Heinlein)
1960s:
"No Truce with Kings" (Poul Anderson)
Space Viking (H. Beam Piper)
A Torrent of Face (James Blish and Norman L. Knight)
1970s:
The Mercenary (Jerry Pournelle)
Alongside Night (L. Neil Schulman)
The Probability Broach (L. Neil Smith)
Lacey and His Friends (David Drake - the novellas are all 1970s, right?)
Wyst (Jack Vance)
1980s:
Orion Shall Rise (Poul Anderson)
Oath of Fealty (Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle)
1990s:
The Burning City (Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle)
Mindstar Rising (Peter Hamilton)
2000s:
A State of Disobedience (Thomas Kratman)
The Last Centurion (John Ringo)
Empire (Orson Scott Card)
The War of the Dreaming bks 1 & 2 (John C. Wright)
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Will in New Haven
What's amazing is that you can collect so many disparate political
ideas and call them all "right-wing." However, I think you would have
to include Vinge's "Ungoverned" and probably some of his other stuff.
--
Will in New Haven
David Johnston
Eagle Against the Stars, by Steve White although it isn't as well
known or good as most of these.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
>list of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ)
>which so far looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise).
>I'm thinking maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am
>trying not to have more than one book per given author per decade
>(but where the books are actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
>
>Alongside Night (L. Neil Schulman)
>The Probability Broach (L. Neil Smith)
I know you're probably just walking into the Argument Clinic,
but why are you lumping the libertarian books in with
right-wing? (and Schulman is "J.", right?)
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
James Nicoll
Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>
>What's amazing is that you can collect so many disparate political
>ideas and call them all "right-wing."
Binary divisions appear to me to be by definition large
tent.
James Nicoll
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>
>I know you're probably just walking into the Argument Clinic,
>but why are you lumping the libertarian books in with
>right-wing? (and Schulman is "J.", right?)
Yes. Yes, it is J. I was too focused on the Neil.
Right-wing is by its nature a pretty big tent. Those two
libertarians get tossed into the right hand pile on the basis of
some features I associate with the right.
Schulman: Not being a left-anarchist sort of anarchist. He's a
fan of of anarcho-capitalism. He's also not a big fan of - the
following is not a policy statement nor an invitation to discuss
same - gun control, which at this point in time is more of a
right-wing thing in the US although obviously it doesn't need
to be (See Orwell or if not into reading lefty books, see THE
PRESIDENTS ANALYST).
I don't recall if he's a gold-bug or not. Also, present tense
may be wrong: I am really concerned with his 1970s books.
Smith: Also market anarchist, also anti-that subject I should not have
mentioned the first time, loathes Lincoln [2]. I think he's a gold bug.
James P. Hogan, on the other hand, I'd put over on the left
because of his issues with markets.
2: Yes, yes. Will Shetterly does too.
wjtingle
> In article <45981027-fc01-44f1...@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
> Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>> What's amazing is that you can collect so many disparate political
>> ideas and call them all "right-wing."
>
> Binary divisions appear to me to be by definition large
> tent.
>
two political parties, but 3 (sort-of) political divisions. Literature
tends to break that way as well. It's just no one notices the center ...
'cause it's, like, the center.
Regards,
Jack Tingle
mimus
> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
> out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
> list of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ)
> which so far looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise).
> I'm thinking maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am
> trying not to have more than one book per given author per decade
> (but where the books are actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
>
> 1950s:
>
> Starship Troopers (Robert Heinlein)
>
> 1960s:
>
> "No Truce with Kings" (Poul Anderson)
> Space Viking (H. Beam Piper)
> A Torrent of Face (James Blish and Norman L. Knight)
>
> 1970s:
>
> The Mercenary (Jerry Pournelle)
> Alongside Night (L. Neil Schulman)
> The Probability Broach (L. Neil Smith)
> Lacey and His Friends (David Drake - the novellas are all 1970s, right?)
> Wyst (Jack Vance)
Since this is the only one on your list that I'm familiar with besides
_Starship Troopers_, and would hardly classify it as "right-wing" (I
imagine most _Socialists'_ stomachs would turn at the "egalitarian"
society portrayed there), I'd say you're batting .500 . . . .
BTW, wouldn't any novel uncritically portraying monarchy per se be
"right-wing"?
Like, for example, _Lord of the Rings_?
--
"You are either insane or a fool."
"I am a sanitary inspector."
< _Maske: Thaery_
James Nicoll
Even granting the existance of a collection of wild-eyed
moderates chanting for reasonable change when practical, I don't
really think any of the writers I mentioned fall into that group
(except maybe Drake, whose politcs may be more "morose and pessistic"
than right, as such. After all, Richard Morgan is lefty and an
obligate moaner.
Derek Lyons
>James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <45981027-fc01-44f1...@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
>> Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>>> What's amazing is that you can collect so many disparate political
>>> ideas and call them all "right-wing."
>>
>> Binary divisions appear to me to be by definition large
>> tent.
>>
>Um, that's more like a 3-way division. Left, right center. The US has
>two political parties, but 3 (sort-of) political divisions.
On top of which, the parties don't map cleanly onto the divisions...
(Not outside of their cartoon caricature versions anyhow.)
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
James Nicoll
Sure, but the definition has spread some since 1789.
>Like, for example, _Lord of the Rings_?
>
Not SF but yes, right wingidy enough to drive some left leaning
readers into apoplexy.
Poul Anderson is a reasonably rich source of "Kings; not so bad
as they are painted", as is Piper. Ditto with Nevil Shute, whose IN THE
WET should get a mention (although ON THE BEACH is more famous and has
that "if only the lesser nations had not been allowed to arm themselves
with atomic weapons" aspect.
James Nicoll
I actually wanted THE GRAY PRINCE (Rhodesia! In Space!) but
someone suggested WYST was a better book. I am not aiming to load
the list up with shitty RWSF, it's just that the state of the art
has nose-dived in the last 30 years (Or alternatively, that I have
supressed all memory of my Edmund Coopers and whoever the most racist,
flag-waving author under John W. Campbell was) so where I used to
be able to get Blish in full bore fascist mode, now I have to settle
for Cartman and Jingo.
I expect most lefties are not keen on any of the supposedly
leftish societies protrayed by most right-wing writers (Unless there's
an Honorable Enemy socialist society out there in RWSF-land that I
have overlooked).
Nicholas Waller
> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
> out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
> list of core suggested book
I always had a notion that Gordon Dickson's Dorsai stuff was said to
be right wing, but I haven't read any.
How about CS Lewis's sf, eg That Hideous Strength. I must have read
that 35 years ago or more and remember little of it, but I gathered
since that it was partly an attack on HG Wells (a Fabian-type
socialist) and worldly scientists (as opposed to more spiritual
concerns) from a rather conservative angle (which I checked on in the
Clute/Nicholls Encyclopaedia).
Nick
Cece
> In article <aPmdnW3Ui_ibLo3UnZ2dnUVZ_rmdn...@giganews.com>,
> defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
1960s, Heinlein, _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, novel.
1950s, Poul Anderson, "Sam Hall," novelette.
1950s/60s, Anderson, _The van Rijn Method_ (recent collection)
William Hyde
> > Wyst (Jack Vance)
>
> Since this is the only one on your list that I'm familiar with besides
> _Starship Troopers_, and would hardly classify it as "right-wing" (I
> imagine most _Socialists'_ stomachs would turn at the "egalitarian"
> society portrayed there),
It was my suggestion, and you have just demonstrated why I believe it
to have a right wing slant.
William Hyde
James Nicoll
This runs into two related problems: Anderson was inhumanely
prolific in the early part of his career and as I said in the first
post: " I am trying not to have more than one book per given author
per decade [...]".
I just read THE VAN RIJN METHOD for work and as I recall [1]
it actually includes material at least as late as the 1970s and maybe
even the 1980s (I don't recall when THE EARTHBOOK OF STORMGATE came
out). Mind you, both primary time periods in the Technic Universe
were pretty much glummed to death by 1980. I can't recall a Polesotechnic
League book after MIRKHEIM and I think the last Flandry-era book came
out in 1984 (The one with Bastardina the Adventuress).
1: Because in accordance with how these things work, I liked the book
so I had to send it make.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
Dorothy J Heydt
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>Smith: Also market anarchist, also anti-that subject I should not have
>mentioned the first time, loathes Lincoln [2]. I think he's a gold bug.
>
I shall not ask why. I probably wouldn't comprehend the answer.
OTOH I know a guy who is libertarian *and* fairly right-wing so
far as I can tell, and I saw him saying this morning, "I'm not
going to vote, there wouldn't be any point in it." Whether this
means he is sure Obama will win and he can't prevent it, or
whether he is sure McCain will win and doesn't need *him* to go
out of his way, I cannot say. Only that whatever his politics,
he's got the WRONG attitude.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Dorothy J Heydt
Nah. Monarchy has been out of style (except in purely ceremonial
roles) for so long that it's just about ready to come back in on
the *far* left.
mimus
HmmMMmm, that's arguable, too.
And I can see _The Gray Prince_ driving the _Bury My Heart at Wounded
Knee_ and _The Iceman Inheritance_ crowd nuts (you know, the ones that
hold the Euros/Caucasoids to a different and higher standard than, well,
really, everyone else).
> I am not aiming to load
> the list up with shitty RWSF, it's just that the state of the art
> has nose-dived in the last 30 years (Or alternatively, that I have
> supressed all memory of my Edmund Coopers and whoever the most racist,
> flag-waving author under John W. Campbell was)
<snort>
The more or less MIL-SF stuff I read by Campbell (_The Mightiest Machine_
and that "Aesir" collection) left me with an enduring impression of
Campbell's, er, "unambiguity".
> so where I used to
> be able to get Blish in full bore fascist mode, now I have to settle
> for Cartman and Jingo.
>
> I expect most lefties are not keen on any of the supposedly
> leftish societies protrayed by most right-wing writers (Unless there's
> an Honorable Enemy socialist society out there in RWSF-land that I
> have overlooked).
And plutocracies are usually portrayed in a "Yeah, so what else is new?"
fashion . . . .
--
The hell with the Galactic Overlords
and their tastes in literature.
< _The Day of the Burning_
MPorcius
_StarWater Strains_? As I recall, it is very anti-government
regulation, anti-tax, and anti-gun control, and a good example of a
sort of conservative populism, showing how a simple decent country man
is being taken advantage of by the slick fast talking city folk.
I also agree that Vinge and Lewis should be represented.
mimus
"Why not a 'moderate left-wing' or even 'centrist' slant?", is, I think,
my point.
--
Property and life are not incommensurable, when
property is measured in terms of human toil.
Essentially property is life; it is that proportion
of life which an individual has expended to gain the
property. When a thief steals property, he steals
life. I am tolerant of human weakness, and I would
not react vigorously to the theft of a day. I would
resent the theft of a week; I would kill the thief
who stole a year of my life.
< Vance
Stewart Robert Hinsley
<jdni...@panix.com> writes
> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a list
>of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ) which so far
>looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise). I'm thinking
>maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am trying not to have
>more than one book per given author per decade (but where the books are
>actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
Shouldn't you drop an Ayn Rand work in there?
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
James Nicoll
the strangest Obama fan I've seen (that would be one of the white
supremists - note, people don't get to pick their fans).
Manson's motivation - not that he's an SF person - in
killing people was apparently because he expected a race war
that the blacks would win, but since he thought they could
not lead themselves, they would then be forced to appoint him
as their leader. This seems - and I use the following phrase
in its technical sense - extremely unlikely to have produced
the effects that he wanted even under the most favourable
of circumstance but it does show that real world motivations
can be based on some fairly shaky logic.
James Nicoll
D'oh! I knew that. Not ATLAS SHRUGGED if we expect the
recipient of this list to actually read it. Did William Goldman
ever do a good parts version of AS?
David Johnston
wrote:
Doubtless what he means is that Bob Barr isn't really a libertarian so
there's no point in voting because no candidate represents his
political point of view.
Tim McDaniel
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF.
For hard-core libertarianism, "And Then There Were None". (? The one
with "MYOB" = 'Mind Your Own Business' and "ob" = 'obligation'.) I'd
look up the author and year for your convenience, but I'm engaged in
using my DVD burner to produce a set of undecorated coasters and I'd
rather not do something so hideously CPU-intensive as, say, opening a
browser tab, as it seems to drive the read buffer to size 0, and
despite advertising of "no more buffer underrun failures!", my
reaction to such mythical features is a hollow laugh.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
David Johnston
Nicoll) wrote:
>In article <ANRkodcw...@meden.invalid>,
>Stewart Robert Hinsley <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <gepp1l$90g$1...@reader1.panix.com>, James Nicoll
>><jdni...@panix.com> writes
>>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>>>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a list
>>>of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ) which so far
>>>looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise). I'm thinking
>>>maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am trying not to have
>>>more than one book per given author per decade (but where the books are
>>>actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
>>
>>Shouldn't you drop an Ayn Rand work in there?
>
> D'oh! I knew that. Not ATLAS SHRUGGED if we expect the
>recipient of this list to actually read it. Did William Goldman
>ever do a good parts version of AS?
Anthem is Ayn Rand's most readable (and shortest) book.
Stewart Robert Hinsley
>In article <ANRkodcw...@meden.invalid>,
>Stewart Robert Hinsley <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <gepp1l$90g$1...@reader1.panix.com>, James Nicoll
>><jdni...@panix.com> writes
>>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>>>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a list
>>>of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ) which so far
>>>looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise). I'm thinking
>>>maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am trying not to have
>>>more than one book per given author per decade (but where the books are
>>>actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
>>
>>Shouldn't you drop an Ayn Rand work in there?
>
> D'oh! I knew that. Not ATLAS SHRUGGED if we expect the
>recipient of this list to actually read it. Did William Goldman
>ever do a good parts version of AS?
>
"The Fountainhead" and "Anthem". "Anthem" has the virtue of brevity, if
I remember correctly from my teenage reading.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
Wayne Throop
: Um, that's more like a 3-way division. Left, right center. The US has
: tends to break that way as well. It's just no one notices the center ...
: 'cause it's, like, the center.
Well... can you name 3 works that are in each of the three categories,
and memorably/remarkably/noticeably so (as opposed to "unclassifiable")?
Some specifics would help me follow your meaning there.
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Mike Schilling
> In article <gepp1l$90g$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>> out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF.
>
> For hard-core libertarianism, "And Then There Were None". (? The one
> with "MYOB" = 'Mind Your Own Business' and "ob" = 'obligation'.) I'd
> look up the author and year for your convenience,
Eric Frank Russell, of course. Later collected into the fixup novel _The
Great Explosion_.
Dan Goodman
> In article <gepp1l$90g$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
> > out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
> > list of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ)
> > which so far looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise).
> > I'm thinking maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am
> > trying not to have more than one book per given author per decade
> > (but where the books are actually book-chunks, I've listed all
> > parts).
> >
>
> > Alongside Night (L. Neil Schulman)
> > The Probability Broach (L. Neil Smith)
>
> I know you're probably just walking into the Argument Clinic,
> but why are you lumping the libertarian books in with
> right-wing? (and Schulman is "J.", right?)
1) Libertarians claim to be for some major things which US
conservatives also claim to be for: smaller government (note: what
the Libertarian Party advocates is infinitely larger government than
Marxist doctrine calls for), free enterprise, individual freedom.
2) Libertarians are likely to have kneejerk conservative biases.
3) Notice who the Libertarian Party nominated for President this year.
--
Dan Goodman
.sig under reconstruction
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article <ANRkodcw...@meden.invalid>,
> Stewart Robert Hinsley <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <gepp1l$90g$1...@reader1.panix.com>, James Nicoll
>> <jdni...@panix.com> writes
>>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>>> out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a list
>>> of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ) which so far
>>> looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise). I'm thinking
>>> maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am trying not to have
>>> more than one book per given author per decade (but where the books are
>>> actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
>> Shouldn't you drop an Ayn Rand work in there?
>
> D'oh! I knew that. Not ATLAS SHRUGGED if we expect the
> recipient of this list to actually read it. Did William Goldman
> ever do a good parts version of AS?
>
Anthem.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Mike Schilling
>
> 2) Libertarians are likely to have kneejerk conservative biases.
Certainly lots of self-professed libertarins have been repeating Republican
anti-Obama and pro-Palin talking points this election season.
Jesper Lauridsen
>
> Nah. Monarchy has been out of style (except in purely ceremonial
> roles) for so long that it's just about ready to come back in on
> the *far* left.
See Cuba, North Korea.
Carl Henderson
> OTOH I know a guy who is libertarian *and* fairly right-wing so
> far as I can tell, and I saw him saying this morning, "I'm not
> going to vote, there wouldn't be any point in it." Whether this
> means he is sure Obama will win and he can't prevent it, or
> whether he is sure McCain will win and doesn't need *him* to go
> out of his way, I cannot say. Only that whatever his politics,
> he's got the WRONG attitude.
Perhaps he just can't get enthused about a choice between a candidate who is
going to raise his share of the national debt from $300,000 to $400,000
versus the a candidate who is going to raise his share of the national debt
from $300,000 to $500,000. That's the way I feel this year. I've pretty much
lost all trust in the major parties, and voted for McCain out of a vague
sense of civic duty (the voting part) and a desire to preserve divided
government (the McCain part). It's not like I can pay either the $400,000 or
the $500,000.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Why not just print up one $500,000 bill for each citizen, and then
apply them to the debt? Then the USA would be debt-free.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
That's certainly debatable, but at least for Smith, the big villian
of his history is Alexander Hamilton, who, I think is well thought of
by conservatives, and his libertarian society also leans a bit towards
the libertine side, and has no important religious currents that I
can recall.
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
Dan Goodman <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
Who?
/googles
Bob Barr ... never heard of him before this minute (someone
mentioned him upthread). So what is it about Barr that the right
wing would agree with, or vice versa?
Dorothy J Heydt
Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <gepp1l$90g$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF.
>
>For hard-core libertarianism, "And Then There Were None". (? The one
>with "MYOB" = 'Mind Your Own Business' and "ob" = 'obligation'.) I'd
>look up the author and year for your convenience,
Eric Frank Russell.
Not one of his best. Give me _Wasp_ any day, or the novella
"Nuisance Value."
Dan Goodman
But many others haven't been, and some are supporting Obama.
William December Starr
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:
> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
> out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF.
I smell a remake of "Unaccompanied Sonata" here.
-- wds
Dan Goodman
Defender of Christianity against Pagans in the Armed Forces, among
other enemies. Generally rightwing Republican positions. Former
Republican Congressman.
Dan Goodman
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
> news:K9tup...@kithrup.com:
>
> > OTOH I know a guy who is libertarian and fairly right-wing so
> > far as I can tell, and I saw him saying this morning, "I'm not
> > going to vote, there wouldn't be any point in it." Whether this
> > means he is sure Obama will win and he can't prevent it, or
> > whether he is sure McCain will win and doesn't need him to go
> > out of his way, I cannot say. Only that whatever his politics,
> > he's got the WRONG attitude.
>
> Perhaps he just can't get enthused about a choice between a candidate
> who is going to raise his share of the national debt from $300,000 to
> $400,000 versus the a candidate who is going to raise his share of
> the national debt from $300,000 to $500,000. That's the way I feel
> this year. I've pretty much lost all trust in the major parties, and
> voted for McCain out of a vague sense of civic duty (the voting part)
> and a desire to preserve divided government (the McCain part). It's
> not like I can pay either the $400,000 or the $500,000.
Note that if Obama wins, much of the judiciary and the bureaucracy will
still be Republican-approved. Which will mean divided government in
practice, though not in theory.
William December Starr
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
> Why not just print up one $500,000 bill for each citizen, and then
> apply them to the debt? Then the USA would be debt-free.
But whose face would we put on it? (Bozo the Clown is trademarked,
after all.)
-- wds
William December Starr
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:
> I just read THE VAN RIJN METHOD for work and as I recall [1]
> 1: Because in accordance with how these things work, I liked
> the book so I had to send it make.
??? ("make" = braino for "back"?)
-- wds
Derek Lyons
>I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF.
Quite probably because such a division isn't a common one, or even a
useful one.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
wjtingle
> In article <geqb0e$76c$1...@registered.motzarella.org>,>>> In article <45981027-fc01-44f1...@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>>>> What's amazing is that you can collect so many disparate political
>>>> ideas and call them all "right-wing."
>>> Binary divisions appear to me to be by definition large
>>> tent.
>>>
>> Um, that's more like a 3-way division. Left, right center. The US has
>> two political parties, but 3 (sort-of) political divisions. Literature
>> tends to break that way as well. It's just no one notices the center ...
>> 'cause it's, like, the center.
>
> moderates chanting for reasonable change when practical, I don't
> really think any of the writers I mentioned fall into that group
> (except maybe Drake, whose politcs may be more "morose and pessistic"
> than right, as such. After all, Richard Morgan is lefty and an
> obligate moaner.
We are Unitarian Jihad [1] ... fear us! Well, be nervous but respectful
of us. At least listen to us. Please?
[1]
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/04/08/DDG27BCFLG1.DTL
Regards,
Brother Jack "Bowie Knife of Obsessive Rectangularity" Tingle
http://whump.com/dropbox/other/ujname.html
http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/jihad
Taki Kogoma
allegedly proclaimed to rec.arts.sf.written:
Salmon Chase is on $10,000, and Wilson on c. 1934 $100,000 gold certificate.
IIRC, Stephenson put Meese on the $1,000,000,000,000, and Reagan on
the $1,000,000,000,000,000...
Gym "So Hoover seems a likely $500,000 portrait..." Quirk
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk (Known to some as Taki Kogoma) quirk @ swcp.com
Just an article detector on the Information Supercollider.
wjtingle
Lassie.
Regards,
Jack Tingle
Will in New Haven
mean "accepted from the tiny number of people who wanted the
nomination. The philosophy does not encourage one to want to run for
office. He would have been my last choice by what I call my "policy-
neutral" criteria. He isn't, in my opinion, very capable, honest or
hornorable. Both of the major party candidates fulfill those criteria
very well. So, despite the fact that their policies will be, whichever
one is elected, abhorrent to me, I'm glad one of them will win.
–
Will in New Haven
"The welfare of the people has always been the alibi of tyrants, and
it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a
good conscience"
Albert Camus
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Our current president, of course.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
So next time I should put my name in? I didn't realize they were so
desperate as to be willing to choose someone who isn't Libertarian at
all as their candidate.
wjtingle
> : wjtingle <wjti...@hotmail.com>
> : Um, that's more like a 3-way division. Left, right center. The US has
> : two political parties, but 3 (sort-of) political divisions. Literature
> : tends to break that way as well. It's just no one notices the center ...
> : 'cause it's, like, the center.
>
> Well... can you name 3 works that are in each of the three categories,
> and memorably/remarkably/noticeably so (as opposed to "unclassifiable")?
> Some specifics would help me follow your meaning there.
Sure:
Right - James' list + Ayn Rand + John Ringo + He Who Shall Not Be
Mentioned Lest He Rudely Dribble Messy Special Characters All Over the
Newsgroup
Left - "The Dispossessed", "Where Late the Sweet Bird Sang(?)", the
novel-length version of "Of Mist, Grass, and Sand", and a crap-load of
other stuff written in the late 60's/early 70's.
Center - anything with no obvious, or noticeable political position, or
positions too weird to be mappable, e.g., M. John Harrison's "Light"
Regards,
Jack Tingle
Will in New Haven
Well, he had to say he had changed many of his positions. I do believe
that a person's political views can change but I don't think HIS did,
not the way he said. And, remember, there is no salary unless you
W. Citoan
Gandalf the Wizard Clown
- W. Citoan
--
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not
hereditary.
-- Thomas Paine
Spike
> the novel-length version of "Of Mist, Grass, and Sand"
You mean _Dreamsnake_? If so, your description is kinda misleading.
--
- What are letters?
- Kinda like mediaglyphics except they're all black, and they're tiny,
they don't move, they're old and boring and really hard to read. But you
can use'em to make short words for long words.
William December Starr
wjtingle <wjti...@hotmail.com> said:
> William December Starr wrote:
>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
>>
>>> Why not just print up one $500,000 bill for each citizen, and
>>> then apply them to the debt? Then the USA would be debt-free.
>>
>> But whose face would we put on it? (Bozo the Clown is trademarked,
>> after all.)
>
> Lassie.
"What's that you say, girl? The U.S. economy's fallen down a well?"
-- wds
raymond larsson
> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:
> > 1: Because in accordance with how these things work, I liked
> > the book so I had to send it make.
>
> ??? ("make" = braino for "back"?)
... to Makemake ?
Dan Goodman
Alternatively, fill all three slots with fiction by Poul Anderson.
William Hyde
> On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:02:11 -0800, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Nov 4, 3:39 pm, mimus <tinmimu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Wyst (Jack Vance)
>
> >> Since this is the only one on your list that I'm familiar with besides
> >> _Starship Troopers_, and would hardly classify it as "right-wing" (I
> >> imagine most _Socialists'_ stomachs would turn at the "egalitarian"
> >> society portrayed there),
>
> > It was my suggestion, and you have just demonstrated why I believe it
> > to have a right wing slant.
>
> "Why not a 'moderate left-wing' or even 'centrist' slant?", is, I think,
> my point.
Because he depicts a communal society as stomach-turning, as opposed
to
misguided, or semi-comically bureaucratic, for example. Not that it
is a portrait without nuance, Vance is too good a writer for that.
But it's not the tone I would expect
a centrist to take, while leftist attacks on leftist ideas, in my
experience, focus more on doctrine and application thereof.
William Hyde
Damien Sullivan
>Perhaps he just can't get enthused about a choice between a candidate who is
>going to raise his share of the national debt from $300,000 to $400,000
>versus the a candidate who is going to raise his share of the national debt
>from $300,000 to $500,000. That's the way I feel this year. I've pretty much
US population: 3e8
$1e5 (100,000) per person: $3e13 (30 trillion)
Actual debt: $1e13 (10 trillion)
I believe your math is off by a factor of 10.
>lost all trust in the major parties, and voted for McCain out of a vague
>sense of civic duty (the voting part) and a desire to preserve divided
>government (the McCain part). It's not like I can pay either the $400,000 or
Ah yes, the fun last-ditch campaigning by Republicans: "vote for me
because all the other Republicans will lose!"
-xx- Damien X-)
Damien Sullivan
>Well, he had to say he had changed many of his positions. I do believe
>that a person's political views can change but I don't think HIS did,
>not the way he said. And, remember, there is no salary unless you
>win.
I'm not sure why one would bother lying for the sake of the LP
nomination. The payoff seems low. Is there any reason to believe he's
insincere about no longer supporting the War on Some Drugs?
-xx- Damien X-)
Damien Sullivan
>That's certainly debatable, but at least for Smith, the big villian
>of his history is Alexander Hamilton, who, I think is well thought of
>by conservatives, and his libertarian society also leans a bit towards
>the libertine side, and has no important religious currents that I
>can recall.
Yeah, the whole "legalize drugs and prostitution and open up the
borders" thing sits poorly in the right-wing.
I haven't found Smith's religion yet, but I did see him referring to
"Jesus freaks" in a review of Dan Brown, and then there's
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2007/tle405-20070211-02.html
trashing Bork.
"What Bork does prove, however is that so-called conservatives are
nothing more than right-wing socialists—as Bob LeFevre taught me and
I have often said—willing, no, make it eager to sacrifice the life,
liberty, and property of the individual to the glorious (right wing)
people's collective at the drop of the lamest, most threadbare excuse. "
Seems to be from 2007. Doesn't look like he considers himself
right-wing... neither did the LP when they sent me their little test
card.
"Left-wing, right-wing, *parakeet*-wing." Hell, that's the whole point
of the Nolan Chart, rejecting the hegemonizing narrative of the
one-dimensional spectrum.
-xx- Damien X-)
Damien Sullivan
>In article <geq952$4a5$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>Smith: Also market anarchist, also anti-that subject I should not have
>>mentioned the first time, loathes Lincoln [2]. I think he's a gold bug.
>>
>>2: Yes, yes. Will Shetterly does too.
>
>I shall not ask why. I probably wouldn't comprehend the answer.
I don't remember what Will's objections are, but things one can dislike
without being a racist who wants to bring back slavery: specific things
like suspension of habeas corpus, or the whole general endeavor to force
the South to remain within the Union. The South seceded to defend
slavery; the North fought to prevent secession. It is possible to see
both goals as wrong, even if there was a happy and unintended result of
the end of slavery.
-xx- Damien X-)
Damien Sullivan
>In article <ri1Qk.55421$XT1....@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>
>>I know you're probably just walking into the Argument Clinic,
>>but why are you lumping the libertarian books in with
>>right-wing? (and Schulman is "J.", right?)
>
>libertarians get tossed into the right hand pile on the basis of
>some features I associate with the right.
I still think it'd be intellectually dishonest to present the list
without qualification, especially where the authors themselves would
dispute being right-wing. Admittedly this is within a specific context
http://www.mikebrotherton.com/?p=877
Actually, is this list going to shed light on
"Does hard science fiction have this political spread between liberalism
that supports knowledge for its own sake and the libertarian approach
that supports science for the powers it gives us?"
But anyway, warmongering conservative right-wing is not anarchist
guns and drugs and sex right-wing.
-xx- Damien X-)
James Nicoll
That should be back, yes. Weird wordo to make.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Mike Schilling
> Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, he had to say he had changed many of his positions. I do
>> believe that a person's political views can change but I don't
>> think
>> HIS did, not the way he said. And, remember, there is no salary
>> unless you win.
>
> I'm not sure why one would bother lying for the sake of the LP
> nomination. The payoff seems low.
It'a enough like Rickey Henderson playing in the low minor leagues
that I assume it's for the same reason: he enjoys playing the game and
doesn't know how to do anything else.
Gene
> The South seceded to defend
> slavery; the North fought to prevent secession.
In part, but you are ignoring the elephant in the livingroom, the anti-
slavery sentiment in the North.
ncw...@hotmail.com
> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
> out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
> list of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ)
> which so far looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise).
> I'm thinking maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am
> trying not to have more than one book per given author per decade
> (but where the books are actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
<snip>
> Orion Shall Rise (Poul Anderson)
I'd be interested to know why you classify that as right-wing. The
theme of "expanding free-market capitalists bring the whole world down
in ruins" doesn't strike me as particularly right-wing thinking.
While the idea of Gaians(greens) overthrowing the govenment in
Iledeciel (France) might be classified as a right-wing concept, the
description of Gaians in N. America shows that they are by no means a
unified group and, indeed, Anderson treats Gaianity positively in the
N. American setting.
Cheers,
Nigel.
Stewart Robert Hinsley
Goodman <dsg...@iphouse.com> writes
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
James Nicoll
>mean "accepted from the tiny number of people who wanted the
>nomination.
So L. Neil Smith has given up on getting that nomination?
James Nicoll
Nicholas Waller <test...@aol.com> wrote:
>On 4 Nov, 15:17, jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>> out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
>> list of core suggested book
>
>be right wing, but I haven't read any.
>
Some of the worlds in that setting have a top down approach to
interstellar trade not unlike baseball teams of old. If you come from
one of those planets and you have useful skills, your government might
trade your contract (since skilled individuals seem, IIRC, to be one
one main trade items). Other worlds don't use that system.
Dickson once wrote a novel replying to SST so I'd be inclined
to suspect he was a moderate.
James Nicoll
>jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:
>
>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>> out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF.
>
>
?
Mad Hamish
Nicoll) wrote:
> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
>list of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ)
>which so far looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise).
>I'm thinking maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am
>trying not to have more than one book per given author per decade
>(but where the books are actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
>
Has anybody suggested the Draka books yet?
--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au
Michael Stemper
>In message <geqepf$m68$4...@reader1.panix.com>, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> writes
>>>Shouldn't you drop an Ayn Rand work in there?
>>
>> D'oh! I knew that. Not ATLAS SHRUGGED if we expect the
>>recipient of this list to actually read it. Did William Goldman
>>ever do a good parts version of AS?
>>
>If I am to believe WikiPedia, you have the choice of "Atlas Shrugged",
>"The Fountainhead" and "Anthem".
How do you make out _The Fountainhead_ to be SF -- other than the fact
that the characters are aliens in human form, I mean?
> "Anthem" has the virtue of brevity, if
>I remember correctly from my teenage reading.
You do remember correctly.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
No animals were harmed in the composition of this message.
Stewart Robert Hinsley
<newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au> writes
>On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 15:17:10 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
>>list of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ)
>>which so far looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise).
>>I'm thinking maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am
>>trying not to have more than one book per given author per decade
>>(but where the books are actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
>>
>Has anybody suggested the Draka books yet?
I would expect that they would be disqualified by being dystopias. Also,
if I recall correctly the author self-identifies as a Democrat.
"Go Tell The Spartans" would be a better candidate; but its socialist
villains are the catspaws of the right wing of the timeline's American
political spectrum.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
James Nicoll
Stewart Robert Hinsley <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <if63h45q62eek3mbc...@4ax.com>, Mad Hamish
><newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au> writes
>>On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 15:17:10 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>>Nicoll) wrote:
>>
>>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>>>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
>>>list of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ)
>>>which so far looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise).
>>>I'm thinking maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am
>>>trying not to have more than one book per given author per decade
>>>(but where the books are actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
>>>
>>Has anybody suggested the Draka books yet?
>
>I would expect that they would be disqualified by being dystopias. Also,
>if I recall correctly the author self-identifies as a Democrat.
>
EMPIRE into the pile of right wing books.
I hesitate to go look at his website today. Ah, well, he has
Prop 8 to hold and pet and call George.
Stewart Robert Hinsley
<jdni...@panix.com> writes
> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a list
>of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ) which so far
>looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise). I'm thinking
>maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am trying not to have
>more than one book per given author per decade (but where the books are
>actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
If you count them as SF you have the "Left Behind" series and "The
Turner Diaries".
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
James Nicoll
I'd count the first as fantasy.
Louann Miller
@reader1.panix.com:
>>If you count them as SF you have the "Left Behind" series and "The
>>Turner Diaries".
>
> I'd count the first as fantasy.
>
In the 'supernatural works reliably' sense, or the 'wanking material'
sense?
(Okay, I promise I won't be catty the rest of the day.)
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> Damien Sullivan wrote:
It would be hard to convince anyone who sat in the seats behind left
field the last year he played with the Yankees that Rickey enjoyed
playing the game. I think he played in the independant league in order
to stay in shape in case anyone needed someone who gets on base all
the time and could still run pretty good. I'm not sure that Barr's
motivation wasn't the same, to stay in the game in case something
better opens up.
Interesting that you would bring up Rickey during a discussion of Bob
Barr. I never associated them before but I realize now that they are
two people I really don't like at all. But I would vote for Rickey for
the Hall.
--
Will in New Haven
James Nicoll
Louann Miller <loua...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in news:ges98s$hua$1
>@reader1.panix.com:
>
>>>If you count them as SF you have the "Left Behind" series and "The
>>>Turner Diaries".
>>
>> I'd count the first as fantasy.
>>
>
>In the 'supernatural works reliably' sense, or the 'wanking material'
>sense?
>
Stewart Robert Hinsley
>In article <4Ib6JLMZ...@meden.invalid>,
>Stewart Robert Hinsley <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <gepp1l$90g$1...@reader1.panix.com>, James Nicoll
>><jdni...@panix.com> writes
>>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>>>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a list
>>>of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ) which so far
>>>looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise). I'm thinking
>>>maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am trying not to have
>>>more than one book per given author per decade (but where the books are
>>>actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
>>
>>If you count them as SF you have the "Left Behind" series and "The
>>Turner Diaries".
>
> I'd count the first as fantasy.
>
narrow sense (excluding fantasy).
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
Michael Alan Chary
>wjtingle <wjti...@hotmail.com> said:
>
>> William December Starr wrote:
>>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
>>>
>>>> Why not just print up one $500,000 bill for each citizen, and
>>>> then apply them to the debt? Then the USA would be debt-free.
>>>
>>> But whose face would we put on it? (Bozo the Clown is trademarked,
>>> after all.)
>>
>> Lassie.
>
>"What's that you say, girl? The U.S. economy's fallen down a well?"
How about Paul Frees?
--
The All-New, All-Different Howling Curmudgeons!
http://www.whiterose.org/howlingcurmudgeons
Michael Stemper
>In article <d2d151e1-9dff-4553...@f37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, Nicholas Waller <test...@aol.com> wrote:
>>I always had a notion that Gordon Dickson's Dorsai stuff was said to
>>be right wing, but I haven't read any.
> Dickson once wrote a novel replying to SST
Which story was his rebuttal?
> so I'd be inclined
>to suspect he was a moderate.
Minnesota Nice, at least.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
A bad day sailing is better than a good day at the office.
James Nicoll
Michael Stemper <mste...@siemens-emis.com> wrote:
>In article <ges52m$j5f$2...@reader1.panix.com>, James Nicoll writes:
>>In article
><d2d151e1-9dff-4553...@f37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
>Nicholas Waller <test...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>>I always had a notion that Gordon Dickson's Dorsai stuff was said to
>>>be right wing, but I haven't read any.
>
>> Dickson once wrote a novel replying to SST
>
>Which story was his rebuttal?
NAKED TO THE STARS, I believe.
David Johnston
<test...@aol.com> wrote:
>On 4 Nov, 15:17, jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>> out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
>> list of core suggested book
>
>I always had a notion that Gordon Dickson's Dorsai stuff was said to
>be right wing, but I haven't read any.
It isn't really. While the Dorsai are military heroes, that isn't
enough.
James Nicoll
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <200811051756....@walkabout.empros.com>,
>Michael Stemper <mste...@siemens-emis.com> wrote:
>>In article <ges52m$j5f$2...@reader1.panix.com>, James Nicoll writes:
>>>In article
>><d2d151e1-9dff-4553...@f37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
>>Nicholas Waller <test...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>I always had a notion that Gordon Dickson's Dorsai stuff was said to
>>>>be right wing, but I haven't read any.
>>
>>> Dickson once wrote a novel replying to SST
>>
>>Which story was his rebuttal?
>
> NAKED TO THE STARS, I believe.
And although they are not intended as rebuttals, ROCKETS
IN URSA MAJOR, INTO DEEPEST SPACE and "Stars, Won't You Hide Me?"
all feature one possible drawback to the Humans Uber Alles model,
which is that in an ancient and huge universe, the odds that
humans will always be the most powerful group around may be
smaller than they think.
David Johnston
<newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au> wrote:
>On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 15:17:10 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>>out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
>>list of core suggested book (with input from people on my LJ)
>>which so far looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise).
>>I'm thinking maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am
>>trying not to have more than one book per given author per decade
>>(but where the books are actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
>>
>Has anybody suggested the Draka books yet?
I don't see why they would. The Draka are the bad guys. That the
author puts his thumb on the scale to make them winners despite the
many reasons why they should lose doesn't mean they are portrayed as
anything else.
James Nicoll
That universe is explicitly pluralist, even if it's
currently stuck in a seperate but equal mode. The Dorsai are
not better than the Exotics, for example.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
That was largely a phenomenon of the educated classes; the typical
Northern farmer or factory worker really didn't give a damn about
slavery as long as it wasn't legal where _he_ was, since it would
drive down his own income.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
The final issue of the Hugo-nominated webzine Helix
is now at http://www.helixsf.com
Gene
news:e0p3h41pqi78vvk3b...@news.motzarella.org:
>>In part, but you are ignoring the elephant in the livingroom, the anti-
>>slavery sentiment in the North.
>
> That was largely a phenomenon of the educated classes; the typical
> Northern farmer or factory worker really didn't give a damn about
> slavery as long as it wasn't legal where _he_ was, since it would
> drive down his own income.
He didn't care about slavery, but was passionately pro-Union? Do tell.
Carl Henderson
@panix1.panix.com:
> In article <geqk2r$nb0$1...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
>> Why not just print up one $500,000 bill for each citizen, and then
>> apply them to the debt? Then the USA would be debt-free.
> But whose face would we put on it? (Bozo the Clown is trademarked,
> after all.)
I nominate L Ron Hubbard.
Carl Henderson
news:ger4sp$t3a$2...@naig.caltech.edu:
> Carl Henderson <jch-u...@carlhenderson.net> wrote:
>>Perhaps he just can't get enthused about a choice between a candidate
>>who is going to raise his share of the national debt from $300,000 to
>>$400,000 versus the a candidate who is going to raise his share of the
>>national debt from $300,000 to $500,000. T
> US population: 3e8
> $1e5 (100,000) per person: $3e13 (30 trillion)
> Actual debt: $1e13 (10 trillion)
> I believe your math is off by a factor of 10.
Wow! You are right. Even though I can't pay off $33,333, either, I feel
strangely better about my country and the future. (I'm not being sarcastic
here, either). Thanks!
mimus
Whoa, "clearing" the national debt?
--
"You are either insane or a fool."
"I am a sanitary inspector."
< _Maske: Thaery_
Mike Schilling
> In article <k2o3h4d3lk4seu4lp...@4ax.com>,
> David Johnston <da...@block.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:59:35 -0800 (PST), Nicholas Waller
>> <test...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4 Nov, 15:17, jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>>>> I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
>>>> out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
>>>> list of core suggested book
>>>
>>> I always had a notion that Gordon Dickson's Dorsai stuff was said
>>> to
>>> be right wing, but I haven't read any.
>>
>> It isn't really. While the Dorsai are military heroes, that isn't
>> enough.
>
> That universe is explicitly pluralist, even if it's
> currently stuck in a seperate but equal mode. The Dorsai are
> not better than the Exotics, for example.
The Dorsai are more interesting, though, which is why there are more
stories about them.
Herr Oberst
> � � � � I have encountered an up and coming SF writer who turns
> out to be unfamiliar with right-wing SF. I am putting together a
> which so far looks like this (By decade but not sorted otherwise).
> I'm thinking maybe half-a-dozen titles per decade would do. I am
> trying not to have more than one book per given author per decade
> (but where the books are actually book-chunks, I've listed all parts).
>
>
> Starship Troopers (Robert Heinlein)
>
> 1960s:
>
> "No Truce with Kings" (Poul Anderson)
> Space Viking (H. Beam Piper)
> A Torrent of Face (James Blish and Norman L. Knight)
>
> 1970s:
>
> The Mercenary (Jerry Pournelle)
> Alongside Night (L. Neil Schulman)
> The Probability Broach (L. Neil Smith)
> Lacey and His Friends (David Drake - the novellas are all 1970s, right?)
> Wyst (Jack Vance)
>
> 1980s:
>
> Orion Shall Rise (Poul Anderson)
> Oath of Fealty (Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle)
>
> 1990s:
>
> The Burning City (Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle)
> Mindstar Rising (Peter Hamilton)
>
> 2000s:
>
> A State of Disobedience (Thomas Kratman)
> The Last Centurion (John Ringo)
> Empire (Orson Scott Card)
> The War of the Dreaming bks 1 & 2 (John C. Wright)
> --http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicollhttp://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll(For all your "The problem with
> defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Not A State of Disobedience. It's not even remotely science fiction.
If you want something of mine that's right wing and set at least in a
future, either A Desert Called Peace or Caliphate.
Derek Lyons
He (the average Northern farmer and factory worker) wasn't
particularly passionate about _either_ issue, prior to the attacks on
Fort Sumpter and not so much even then. As in WWI, it took a bit of
propoganda and time before the hoi polloi supported the policies of
the elite.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Ed Gaillard
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <ANRkodcw...@meden.invalid>,
>
> D'oh! I knew that. Not ATLAS SHRUGGED if we expect the
>recipient of this list to actually read it. Did William Goldman
>ever do a good parts version of AS?
What you do with _Atlas Shrugged_ is, every time a character starts
speaking, check to see if he goes on for more than two paragraphs. If
so, read only the first and last paragraphs of the speech. This turns
the book into a zippy 180-page SF/romance. (Or
"technothriller/romance" if the speculative element isn't large enough
for you to point at it and say "SF".)
-ed g.
--
Caissa have mercy on a miserable patzer: http://altergoniff.blogspot.com
David Harmon
Lauridsen <rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote,
>On 2008-11-04, Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>> Nah. Monarchy has been out of style (except in purely ceremonial
>> roles) for so long that it's just about ready to come back in on
>> the *far* left.
>
>See Cuba, North Korea.
Zimbabwe