Hmm.. B&N next?

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

We talked about this a year or so ago in a couple of threads.
I think that with B&N stores visibly hollowing out and bringing in
racks of toys some folks were bear-ish, and some folks were bull-ish
that Nook would ramp up in time to save them.

Maybe not..

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/09/is-barnes-and-noble-next.html

We have not lost a B&N locally, but one keeps absurdly short hours
and the other seems half empty. Of course I'm part of the problem
since I actively avoid buying paper books now, and I'm signed on with
the enemy..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[David DeLaney]

On 12 Jan 2013 07:04:01 GMT, Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
>We talked about this a year or so ago in a couple of threads.
>I think that with B&N stores visibly hollowing out and bringing in
>racks of toys some folks were bear-ish, and some folks were bull-ish
>that Nook would ramp up in time to save them.
>
>Maybe not..
>
>http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/09/is-barnes-and-noble-next.html
>
>We have not lost a B&N locally, but one keeps absurdly short hours
>and the other seems half empty. Of course I'm part of the problem
>since I actively avoid buying paper books now, and I'm signed on with
>the enemy..

All I can say is that the one here has a full parking lot whenever I'm there,
and going in it's apparent that this isn't spillover from the several small
stores next to it in the mall. So I'm doing MY part.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[JRStern]

On 12 Jan 2013 07:04:01 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan

<tednolan>) wrote:

>We talked about this a year or so ago in a couple of threads.
>I think that with B&N stores visibly hollowing out and bringing in
>racks of toys some folks were bear-ish, and some folks were bull-ish
>that Nook would ramp up in time to save them.
>
>Maybe not..
>
>http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/09/is-barnes-and-noble-next.html
>
>We have not lost a B&N locally, but one keeps absurdly short hours
>and the other seems half empty. Of course I'm part of the problem
>since I actively avoid buying paper books now, and I'm signed on with
>the enemy..

We lost the largest one around last year, it was supposedly a rent
price issue but the place that took the space isn't doing land-office
business so I now wonder.

I noticed the hollowing-out as well, the philosophy sections have been
shrinking for years and now consist almost entirely of "The Philosophy
of Star Trek" and similar books, I went into a local one recently to
see if they had a certain math-related book on the shelf - and they
had no math-related section! I bought one new-release book last year,
it was sort of obscure but I thought it should have been on the shelf,
yet it wasn't and I had to order it anyway. Most of the physical
books I buy are obscure to very obscure, maybe half of them would ever
have been stocked on shelves at B&N or a university bookstore, but
today virtually none ever are, anything from MIT Press or Oxford Press
never make it to a retail shelf anymore.

The stores seem to still have a steady dribble of customers, but I'm
afraid the writing is on the wall, and the more successful the Nook
is, the faster the brick and mortar stores close down.

J.

[Andrew Plotkin]

Here, JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> On 12 Jan 2013 07:04:01 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
> <tednolan>) wrote:
>
> >We talked about this a year or so ago in a couple of threads.
> >I think that with B&N stores visibly hollowing out and bringing in
> >racks of toys some folks were bear-ish, and some folks were bull-ish
> >that Nook would ramp up in time to save them.
> >
> >Maybe not..
> >
> >http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/09/is-barnes-and-noble-next.html
> >
> >We have not lost a B&N locally, but one keeps absurdly short hours
> >and the other seems half empty. Of course I'm part of the problem
> >since I actively avoid buying paper books now, and I'm signed on with
> >the enemy..
>
> We lost the largest one around last year, it was supposedly a rent
> price issue but the place that took the space isn't doing land-office
> business so I now wonder.

The Harvard Coop, which is a thinly rebranded B&N, seems to still be
packed. I haven't been into the MIT Coop (ditto) recently. Cambridge
is a hotspot of US book customers, as I recall.

Of course, local branches may not survive a B&N-pocalypse. In which
case the local independent bookstores (Harvard Bookstore, Pandemonium)
will have a good snicker at the past two decades of "Will megachains
destroy independent booksellers?" stories.

--Z

--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*

[JRStern]

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 16:51:17 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Plotkin
<erky...@eblong.com> wrote:

>The Harvard Coop, which is a thinly rebranded B&N, seems to still be
>packed. I haven't been into the MIT Coop (ditto) recently. Cambridge
>is a hotspot of US book customers, as I recall.
>
>Of course, local branches may not survive a B&N-pocalypse. In which
>case the local independent bookstores (Harvard Bookstore, Pandemonium)
>will have a good snicker at the past two decades of "Will megachains
>destroy independent booksellers?" stories.

I used to visit the Harvard Coop, so many years ago that phones still
had cords, and maybe even dials. I'm not aware of a store of that
scale now anywhere in California, assuming the Coop still looks today
like it did back then.

It's the "long tail" problem, there have probably been more books
published since then, than had been published in the history of the
world up until then (c. 1975), so it's that much harder to stock a
store and have both availability and turnover. The problem is
addressed by having more customers, but then the problem is getting
that many physical customers in and out - the problem is neatly
addressed by having just one giant warehouse and customers shop by
Internet, Amazon being the timely avatar.

J.

[James Silverton]

The B&N stores in my part of metropolitan DC (Bethesda, Rockville and
Gaithersburg, MD) seem to be relatively crowded any time I visit. It is
always difficult to find a chair to sit and read at the Rockville store.
The stores don't have much competition, especially since Borders closed.
To find MIT or Oxford Press books, I'd probably have to go to a
university bookstore (apart from dictionaries.)

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[Andrew Plotkin]

Here, JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>
> It's the "long tail" problem, there have probably been more books
> published since then, than had been published in the history of the
> world up until then (c. 1975), so it's that much harder to stock a
> store and have both availability and turnover. The problem is
> addressed by having more customers, but then the problem is getting
> that many physical customers in and out - the problem is neatly
> addressed by having just one giant warehouse and customers shop by
> Internet, Amazon being the timely avatar.

Amazon has additional advantages, as various pundits have pointed out.
With a stock-price/income ratio of several thousand (last quarter),
they are not constrained by petty concerns of having to make a profit.
This allows them to exert quite a bit of pressure on their competitors.

[JRStern]

There's some of that, they've managed to totally invert the classic
business model, people buy the stock because it's cool not because
they make a profit, so they just seek to barely break even on
operations - so they can sell more stock!

OTOH they helped to develop best practices of all kinds for online
commerce, and maybe that helps explain why they survived and
succeeded, such as it is.

But the long tail argument gives a real economic rationale for their
operation, also for iTunes. As providing worldwide location value to
every garage sale and pawn shop, is a valid economic reason why
something like eBay succeeds. They monetize the value of the
Internet.

I think the long tail argument was first advanced several years after
Amazon began, they probably used some basic inventory economics for
the original conception which is not all that different.

J.

[Brenda Clough]

My store, in Reston, VA, is closing. However there is another one down
the road in Tysons Corner.

Brenda

--
My latest novel SPEAK TO OUR DESIRES is available exclusively from Book
View Cafe.
http://www.bookviewcafe.com/index.php/Brenda-Clough/Novels/Speak-to-Our-Desires-Chapter-01

[Kevrob]

On Jan 12, 1:21 pm, Brenda Clough <BrendaWri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 1/12/2013 12:10 PM, James Silverton wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1/12/2013 11:40 AM, JRStern wrote:
> >> On 12 Jan 2013 07:04:01 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
> >> <tednolan>) wrote:
>
> >>> We talked about this a year or so ago in a couple of threads.
> >>> I think that with B&N stores visibly hollowing out and bringing in
> >>> racks of toys some folks were bear-ish, and some folks were bull-ish
> >>> that Nook would ramp up in time to save them.
>
> >>> Maybe not..
>

> >>>http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/09/is-barnes-and-noble-...

I'd find it tough to guage how profitable a modern-day brick & mortar
bookstore is by how easy it is to find a spot to read or the % of
parking lots filled. The problem with the bookstore as a "third
place" is that two many of its patrons aren't much when it comes to
being customers. Some stop by just to have a copy of coffee and use
the wifi hotspot, and if they browse at all, are as likely to record
titles, authors' name and ISBNs (on their phones, tablets, etc) for
comparison shopping later, or even order from Amazon before they've
finished their latte.

I worked in bookstores* from 1979 until 2004. The first 7 years I
worked in a B Dalton in a busy mall. (B&N had just announced their
offer for Dalton as I was leaving.) After that I worked for a
regional independent with multiple locations. (H W Schwartz,
Milwaukee, WI: closed a few years ago.) At HWS, we made up for light
sales from walk-in customers by selling to institutions and
businesses, through a mail order catalog and eventually a website.

The "business desk" of HWS was spun off into its own division,
eventualy known as http://800ceoread.com/ . "Schwartz Business Books"
survives under that name, but for a long time the "trade side" was
essentially being subsidized by those bulk sales. At some point, the
decision to cut back to a profitable core made economic sense.

> > To find MIT or Oxford Press books, I'd probably have to go to a
> > university bookstore (apart from dictionaries.)
>

This may have changed since I left the business, but I remember the
discount schedules for university presses being obnoxiously
restricted: some of the most interesting books were sold at textbook
discount (20% off retail rather than 40% or more), and while you could
pick up extra % points by agreeing to carry and display an asssortment
of these scholarly titles under what was called an "agency plan,"
reordering a sold-out "short-discount" title for the shelf or special
ordering one for a customer was a pain. If you ordered too many at a
time, the vendor would assume you were buying to serve the college
market and you'd lose trade discount. You couldn't get them quickly
from jobbers such as Ingram or Baker & Taylor without losing half the
meager discount, or even having to pay list retail for it. Even when
I was coming to an end of my bookselling days, most textbook outfits
were switching to "net pricing." In that system, there's a flat
wholesale price, but no suggested list price. The store charges what
it thinks it can get. Since the customer buying direct from the
publisher can get that price, too, a lot of those sales dried up.

It doesn't surprise me that B&N doesn't stock those title deeply. The
same shelf space can be dedicated to a trade book you buy at 10 %
points less, and which will sell 3 copies in the same time period it
takes to sell 1 of the UP title. Turn means profit.

> My store, in Reston, VA, is closing.  However there is another one down
> the road in Tysons Corner.
>

The counties surrounding DC are per capita, the highest earning in the
US. If the stores there can't stay open, that doesn't bode well for
the rest of the country.

Kevin

* I did have a brief relapse in the winter of 2008-2009. I got about a
month's worth of temporary work from a Follet-owned college bookstore
at a local private university. The manager apologized whn he let me
go, telling me he wished he could have found a spot for someone with
my experience. Frankly, once textbook season was over and the kids
were a week or two into the semester, the place wouldn't actually be
selling many books at all.

[Kevrob]

On Jan 12, 6:53 pm, Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:

..a post w/several brainos & typos.

Mea culpa.

Kevin

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:53:10 -0800 (PST), Kevrob
<kev...@my-deja.com> wrote in
<news:fe697434-0f6d-4c6d...@ho8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> I'd find it tough to guage how profitable a modern-day
> brick & mortar bookstore is by how easy it is to find a
> spot to read or the % of parking lots filled. The
> problem with the bookstore as a "third place" is that two
> many of its patrons aren't much when it comes to being
> customers. Some stop by just to have a copy of coffee

Is that a comment on the quality of Starbucks? <g>

[...]

Brian

[Cryptoengineer]

On Jan 12, 12:06 pm, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 16:51:17 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Plotkin
>

I seem to remember the Stanford bookstore being pretty good, but I
haven't been there in a decade.

Kepler's, in Palo Alto, used to be a treat I indulged in everytime I
visited the area. On my last trip though, it too felt 'hollowed out'.

pt

[Lynn McGuire]

>> I'd find it tough to guage how profitable a modern-day
>> brick & mortar bookstore is by how easy it is to find a
>> spot to read or the % of parking lots filled. The
>> problem with the bookstore as a "third place" is that two
>> many of its patrons aren't much when it comes to being
>> customers. Some stop by just to have a copy of coffee
>
> Is that a comment on the quality of Starbucks? <g>
>
> [...]
>
> Brian

My B&N store in Sugar Land, Texas
http://store-locator.barnesandnoble.com/store/2277
has a B&N Cafe, no Starbuckies.

Lynn

[Kevrob]

On Jan 12, 7:36 pm, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:53:10 -0800 (PST), Kevrob
> <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote in
> <news:fe697434-0f6d-4c6d...@ho8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
> in rec.arts.sf.written:
>

 Some stop by just to have a copy of coffee
>
> Is that a comment on the quality of Starbucks?  <g>
>
> [...]
>

> Brian,

Nah. I'm not much of a coffee drinker. I've never even had a sip of *
$s, even though I worked in a store that, rather than run its own
cafe, had one of their locations adjacent. I always would bring tea
and a hot-pot to work.

I like coffee made at a diner, with my searly morning stack of
hotcakes or late-night, after the bars close repast. I last had
coffee on Dec 25, and probably hadn't had any for months before that.

I would buy a scone from Starbucks on occasion.

Mistyping and such I blame on a recalcitrant, obsolete notebook I'm
using (the damned cursor keeps _hopping_ to a line other than the one
I'mtrying to type on),a very slow wifi connection (not a bookstore's)
and my own inattention: the Denver/Baltimore AFC playoff game is in
the last 1:15: Broncos 35, Ravens 28. Quit the exciting game. (5-4 in
FIFA terms).

Kevin

[David DeLaney]

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:47:38 -0600, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>> Is that a comment on the quality of Starbucks? <g>

>> Brian
>
>My B&N store in Sugar Land, Texas
> http://store-locator.barnesandnoble.com/store/2277
>has a B&N Cafe, no Starbuckies.

Yeah, they're specifically not Starbucks - *$ gift cards don't work there,
for example. They're just extremely *$-like. My B&N has one; it's _maybe_
ten percent of the whole store's area. It's usually about as full as the rest
of the store; sometimes I go check out at their registers when there's lines
too long up front.

And yeah, there's some chairs for people to sit and read in, usually mostly
full as well. Most people don't read fast enough to come sit in a chair and
read through a whole book rather than buying it, though, I understand, so I'm
thinking those people are eventually providing some sales as well.

[Robert Carnegie]

Thit happens.

[Rod Speed]

"JRStern" <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote in message
news:dt33f85kocjrvspu1...@4ax.com...

> On 12 Jan 2013 07:04:01 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
> <tednolan>) wrote:
>
>>We talked about this a year or so ago in a couple of threads.
>>I think that with B&N stores visibly hollowing out and bringing in
>>racks of toys some folks were bear-ish, and some folks were bull-ish
>>that Nook would ramp up in time to save them.
>>
>>Maybe not..
>>
>>http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/09/is-barnes-and-noble-next.html
>>
>>We have not lost a B&N locally, but one keeps absurdly short hours
>>and the other seems half empty. Of course I'm part of the problem
>>since I actively avoid buying paper books now, and I'm signed on with
>>the enemy..
>
> We lost the largest one around last year, it was supposedly a rent
> price issue but the place that took the space isn't doing land-office
> business so I now wonder.

That might be because the landlord had no option and saw
sense on the rent they demanded tho after B&N had left.

[Rod Speed]

"JRStern" <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote in message

news:1083f8lgiaamppdqd...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:18:35 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Plotkin
> <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>
>>Here, JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's the "long tail" problem, there have probably been more books
>>> published since then, than had been published in the history of the
>>> world up until then (c. 1975), so it's that much harder to stock a
>>> store and have both availability and turnover. The problem is
>>> addressed by having more customers, but then the problem is getting
>>> that many physical customers in and out - the problem is neatly
>>> addressed by having just one giant warehouse and customers shop by
>>> Internet, Amazon being the timely avatar.
>>
>>Amazon has additional advantages, as various pundits have pointed out.
>>With a stock-price/income ratio of several thousand (last quarter),
>>they are not constrained by petty concerns of having to make a profit.
>>This allows them to exert quite a bit of pressure on their competitors.

> There's some of that, they've managed to totally invert the classic
> business model, people buy the stock because it's cool not because
> they make a profit,

Nope, they buy stock because they think the stock price will increase.

> so they just seek to barely break even on
> operations - so they can sell more stock!

> OTOH they helped to develop best practices
> of all kinds for online commerce, and maybe
> that helps explain why they survived and
> succeeded, such as it is.

Its more that once they get up a real head
of steam, they can become unstoppable.

Its interesting to see that amazon is now an even better
source of small non book consumer items than ebay in
the sense of the number of items to consider with
something like weighing spoons etc. Pity their search
system is so much worse than ebay's and its MUCH
harder to see the shipping cost you will pay if you are
out of the country too.

> But the long tail argument gives a real economic rationale
> for their operation, also for iTunes. As providing worldwide
> location value to every garage sale and pawn shop, is a valid
> economic reason why something like eBay succeeds.

And once you are ebay, its very difficult for another to start up,
just because yours will be so much smaller initially, and so forever.

> They monetize the value of the Internet.

Yes, but ebay and amazon have worked out how
to make money on the net. Plenty of others like
newspapers haven't yet and may never manage it.

> I think the long tail argument was first advanced several years
> after Amazon began, they probably used some basic inventory
> economics for the original conception which is not all that different.

I bet it all just happened without any real planning.

[Elaine T]

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 16:45:29 -0800 (PST), Cryptoengineer
<pete...@gmail.com> wrote:


>
>I seem to remember the Stanford bookstore being pretty good, but I
>haven't been there in a decade.
>
>Kepler's, in Palo Alto, used to be a treat I indulged in everytime I
>visited the area. On my last trip though, it too felt 'hollowed out'.

Keplers had money problems a few years back, I don' t think it has
ever quite recovered. The community rallied round to save it, but I
agree, it isn't as good as it used to be.

--
Elaine T.
Ela...@kethompson.org

[David Librik]

Cryptoengineer <pete...@gmail.com> writes:
>Kepler's, in Palo Alto, used to be a treat I indulged in everytime I
>visited the area. On my last trip though, it too felt 'hollowed out'.

Now here's a skill that we didn't expect to acquire, yet so many of
us now have: the ability to spot a quietly failing bookstore.

I'd say the first clue is that you spend an hour in there and never
run across anything you really want to buy. (That includes wanting
to buy it from Amazon.)

The second clue is that you come back a couple of months later and...
well, you didn't want to buy those exact same books last time, either.

Sections whose books have a high "expiration rate" are canaries in the
coal mine. If the computer section is mostly stuff like _Using Visual
Studio 2008_ then you know they're doomed.

- David Librik
lib...@panix.com

[Kevrob]

On Jan 13, 7:54 pm, David Librik <lib...@panix.com> wrote:

> Cryptoengineer <petert...@gmail.com> writes:
> >Kepler's, in Palo Alto, used to be a treat I indulged in everytime I
> >visited the area. On my last trip though, it too felt 'hollowed out'.
>
> Now here's a skill that we didn't expect to acquire, yet so many of
> us now have:  the ability to spot a quietly failing bookstore.
>

The "hollowed out" phenomenon can appear in otherwise successful
shops, but usually at specific times of the year. Unlike lot of
retailers, bookstores buy the vast majority of their books on a
returnable basis. The % of non-returnable stock has grown over the
years, and shortly after the new year you will see the same kind of
ruthless discounting as one would in ladies' clothing. Calendars,
gift wrap, any and all kinds of tchotkes get marked down and moved.

_Books_ that don't sell get returned for credit against any
outstanding bills with the pubilshers and the distributors. Some may
be "remaindered in place" - the publisher issues a markdown notice,
allowing the store credit on whatever lox they'd rather not bother
counting back into inventory. Even stores that had a good final
quarter have to make room for winter and spring releases. Those
having a rough time of it may practically strip their shelves to get
those return credits, but since they aren't processed instantaneously,
the new titles and replacements for sold-out backlist may be pending
shipment until some arrears are paid.

> I'd say the first clue is that you spend an hour in there and never
> run across anything you really want to buy.  (That includes wanting
> to buy it from Amazon.)
>

A well run, successful store has significantly changed its stock
between Christmas Eve and the end of January. I can remember putting
out stock on Dec 26 that had been sitting in the receiving room, under
publishers' embargo, specifically to entice the customers bringing
back returns or stopping by with gift cards or certificates Santa gave
them.

January was always a great month for remainders. Many a customer
slapped his or herr head at the sight of a $25 hardcover on sale for
$8.99, mere weeks after the purchase of the full price version, or the
$14.95 trade paperback, for holiday giving.

> The second clue is that you come back a couple of months later and...
> well, you didn't want to buy those exact same books last time, either.
>

Sometimes "the same books" are a sign of health, if they are backlist
titles that continually sell and are restocked. If you notice that
LoTR trade collection you decided against giving to your niece has the
same crease on its cover that put you off purchasing it weeks ago,
that's like finding bruised fruit in the produce section at the
supermarket.

> Sections whose books have a high "expiration rate" are canaries in the
> coal mine.  If the computer section is mostly stuff like _Using Visual
> Studio 2008_ then you know they're doomed.
>

If the title still sells, you can stock it. If you need the space for
something that sells better, you return it. It's possible the store
kept it past the return limit, in which case it should have been
marked down and treated like a remainder. A book like that might even
be out of print, in which case, if the store stocks used books, it
could get transferred to that department.

When sales are hurting in a bookstore it makes it tough to stock the
shelves in depth. If it gets so bad vendors switch you from 30, 60 or
90 day credit to prepaid status, you'd better have a decent line of
credit at the bank.

Kevin

[JRStern]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:54:40 +0000 (UTC), David Librik
<lib...@panix.com> wrote:

>Cryptoengineer <pete...@gmail.com> writes:
>>Kepler's, in Palo Alto, used to be a treat I indulged in everytime I
>>visited the area. On my last trip though, it too felt 'hollowed out'.
>
>
>Now here's a skill that we didn't expect to acquire, yet so many of
>us now have: the ability to spot a quietly failing bookstore.

Well it's not that hard, if they have books, there's another one.

I did run across a closing (failed) used book store about two years
ago and bought a couple of dozen old scifi paperbacks for about a buck
each, that in a healthy market would have been three or four bucks
each just for the titles (half the price of new), and most being old
editions and many out of print, should have carried collector's
premiums. Heck, I already had about half of them in other editions.

J.

[Kevrob]

On Jan 19, 11:38 am, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:54:40 +0000 (UTC), David Librik
>
> <lib...@panix.com> wrote:

> >Cryptoengineer <petert...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>Kepler's, in Palo Alto, used to be a treat I indulged in everytime I
> >>visited the area. On my last trip though, it too felt 'hollowed out'.
>
> >Now here's a skill that we didn't expect to acquire, yet so many of
> >us now have:  the ability to spot a quietly failing bookstore.
>
> Well it's not that hard, if they have books, there's another one.
>
> I did run across a closing (failed) used book store about two years
> ago and bought a couple of dozen old scifi paperbacks for about a buck
> each, that in a healthy market would have been three or four bucks
> each just for the titles (half the price of new), and most being old
> editions and many out of print, should have carried collector's
> premiums.  Heck, I already had about half of them in other editions.
>
> J.

I'd diagnose that as:

1.) Very good condition used books being placed alongside new books in
order to "fill out the shelves." (The owner selling his own collection
to stay afloat..?) or..

B.) The store's buyer getting stuck with books bought on a non-
returnable basis. Sometimes you'd get extra discount points on
hardcovers and trades if you took them non-returnable. Alternately,
the books could have been bought from a jobber such as Ingram or Baker
& Taylor, and the contract might have only allowed a certain % of
orders eligible for return. If the store tried to return items passed
their return date, to publisher or jobber, they would "bounce+ - be
returned back to the store, with the freight charges deducted from the
expected return credit. (Ouch!) Those are the owners books, now, and
he could shelve them as new books, remainder them, or turn them into
"used books."

III.) The store just wasn't returning books, because of incompetence,
or because they couldn't afford to pay staff to do basic chores such
as returns. In the dead of winter, a store could potentially add
thousands to its balance sheets by pulling and packing returns like
demons, while those assigned to sell books did comparatively little
business. Sort of an anti-matter version of November/December.

My old boss David Schwartz used to tell a story, (it's also in his Dad
Harry's autobiography, "50 Years In My Bookstore"), about selling
whole walls full of "junk books" to down-on-their luck bibliophiles
who had sold him expensive collections of firsts and classics, after
the 1929 Crash. As the saying goes, books do furnish a room, and
that's all these were: furniture so that the undiscerning wouldn't
twig to the fact that John J. Gotbucks was, at least temporarily,
skint.

Kevin

[JRStern]

On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:10:37 -0800 (PST), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Jan 19, 11:38�am, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:54:40 +0000 (UTC), David Librik
>>
>> <lib...@panix.com> wrote:
>> >Cryptoengineer <petert...@gmail.com> writes:
>> >>Kepler's, in Palo Alto, used to be a treat I indulged in everytime I
>> >>visited the area. On my last trip though, it too felt 'hollowed out'.
>>
>> >Now here's a skill that we didn't expect to acquire, yet so many of
>> >us now have: �the ability to spot a quietly failing bookstore.
>>
>> Well it's not that hard, if they have books, there's another one.
>>
>> I did run across a closing (failed) used book store about two years
>> ago and bought a couple of dozen old scifi paperbacks for about a buck
>> each, that in a healthy market would have been three or four bucks
>> each just for the titles (half the price of new), and most being old
>> editions and many out of print, should have carried collector's
>> premiums. �Heck, I already had about half of them in other editions.
>>
>> J.
>
>I'd diagnose that as:

Closing, as in all goods must go in next 72 hours.

J.

[Robert Carnegie]

And you did say "used book store", so the processes of selling new books
don't come into it.

A pity. I hope the stock that did remain went to a better place.

[Kevrob]

On Jan 19, 9:49 pm, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:10:37 -0800 (PST), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jan 19, 11:38 am, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:54:40 +0000 (UTC), David Librik
>
> >> <lib...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> >Cryptoengineer <petert...@gmail.com> writes:

>
> >> I did run across a closing (failed) used book store about two years

>

> >I'd diagnose that as:
>
> Closing, as in all goods must go in next 72 hours.
>

Oh. I MEGOed the important word "used."

[Rosanne Roaannadanna]

Never mind!

[/RR]

Kevin

[Kevrob]

> Kevin- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Kevrob]

On Jan 20, 10:35 am, Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:

>

> [Rosanne Roaannadanna]
>

sp.....

[Rosanne Rosannadanna]

> Never mind!
>
> [/RR]
>


Kevin

[Kevrob]

On Jan 20, 10:44 am, Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:


.... a correction.

Additional:

Acc. to the WSJ, B&N continues to plan on closing stores:

http://tinyurl.com/B-NWhittle OR

http://preview.tinyurl.com/B-NWhittle which takes you to:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323854904578264400822084708.html?KEYWORDS=BN

"B&N Aims To Whittle Its Stores For Years"

Kevin

[John F. Eldredge]

On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:10:37 -0800, Kevrob wrote:

> On Jan 19, 11:38 am, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:54:40 +0000 (UTC), David Librik
>>
>> <lib...@panix.com> wrote:
>> >Cryptoengineer <petert...@gmail.com> writes:
>> >>Kepler's, in Palo Alto, used to be a treat I indulged in everytime I
>> >>visited the area. On my last trip though, it too felt 'hollowed out'.
>>
>> >Now here's a skill that we didn't expect to acquire, yet so many of us
>> >now have:  the ability to spot a quietly failing bookstore.
>>
>> Well it's not that hard, if they have books, there's another one.
>>
>> I did run across a closing (failed) used book store about two years ago
>> and bought a couple of dozen old scifi paperbacks for about a buck
>> each, that in a healthy market would have been three or four bucks each
>> just for the titles (half the price of new), and most being old
>> editions and many out of print, should have carried collector's
>> premiums.  Heck, I already had about half of them in other editions.
>>
>> J.
>
> I'd diagnose that as:
>
> 1.) Very good condition used books being placed alongside new books in
> order to "fill out the shelves." (The owner selling his own collection
> to stay afloat..?) or..

I am still puzzling over something I noticed at WalMart the other day. I
happened to be walking past their book section, and noticed an obviously-
used book sitting with the new books. It was a rather-battered MMPB of
the _Forge of God_, with a price tag still on it from the Middle
Tennessee State University bookstore. Judging from the price on the tag,
it had probably been bought as a new book when the MMPB first came out.
Since there was no other evidence of WalMart having gone into the used-
book trade, I suspect that some customer decided to "donate" a book.

--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

[John F. Eldredge]

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 22:00:38 -0500, David DeLaney wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:47:38 -0600, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>> Is that a comment on the quality of Starbucks? <g> Brian
>>
>>My B&N store in Sugar Land, Texas
>> http://store-locator.barnesandnoble.com/store/2277
>>has a B&N Cafe, no Starbuckies.
>
> Yeah, they're specifically not Starbucks - *$ gift cards don't work
> there, for example. They're just extremely *$-like. My B&N has one; it's
> _maybe_ ten percent of the whole store's area. It's usually about as
> full as the rest of the store; sometimes I go check out at their
> registers when there's lines too long up front.
>
> And yeah, there's some chairs for people to sit and read in, usually
> mostly full as well. Most people don't read fast enough to come sit in a
> chair and read through a whole book rather than buying it, though, I
> understand, so I'm thinking those people are eventually providing some
> sales as well.
>
> Dave

Also, from my experience, the coffee at the Barnes & Noble cafe doesn't
have the burnt taste that is standard at Starbucks.

[Howard Brazee]

On 27 Mar 2013 21:17:53 GMT, "John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com>
wrote:

>> And yeah, there's some chairs for people to sit and read in, usually
>> mostly full as well. Most people don't read fast enough to come sit in a
>> chair and read through a whole book rather than buying it, though, I
>> understand, so I'm thinking those people are eventually providing some
>> sales as well.
>>
>> Dave
>
>Also, from my experience, the coffee at the Barnes & Noble cafe doesn't
>have the burnt taste that is standard at Starbucks.

Starbucks owns Seattle's Best, but doesn't roast the coffee as much
there. I wonder if more black coffee is sold there, and less
sweetened coffee.

--
Anybody who agrees with one side all of the time or disagrees with the
other side all of the time is equally guilty of letting others do
their thinking for them.

[James Silverton]

On 3/27/2013 5:17 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 22:00:38 -0500, David DeLaney wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:47:38 -0600, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
>>>> Is that a comment on the quality of Starbucks? <g> Brian
>>>
>>> My B&N store in Sugar Land, Texas
>>> http://store-locator.barnesandnoble.com/store/2277
>>> has a B&N Cafe, no Starbuckies.
>>
>> Yeah, they're specifically not Starbucks - *$ gift cards don't work
>> there, for example. They're just extremely *$-like. My B&N has one; it's
>> _maybe_ ten percent of the whole store's area. It's usually about as
>> full as the rest of the store; sometimes I go check out at their
>> registers when there's lines too long up front.
>>
>> And yeah, there's some chairs for people to sit and read in, usually
>> mostly full as well. Most people don't read fast enough to come sit in a
>> chair and read through a whole book rather than buying it, though, I
>> understand, so I'm thinking those people are eventually providing some
>> sales as well.
>>
>> Dave
>
> Also, from my experience, the coffee at the Barnes & Noble cafe doesn't
> have the burnt taste that is standard at Starbucks.
>

I'm not surprised that B&N is in trouble. Let me recite my experience today.

Today, I proposed to buy a Nook version of the recent book "Necessity's
Child" by Sharon Lee and Steven Miller. Unlike Amazon, which has it
available for the Kindle, a Nook version was not mentioned, tho' I was
invited to inform the publisher that I would like it on Nook.

However, the book was available at the web site for about $13.50 and I
chose the option to pick it up in the nearest local store. After
considerable confusion, including a mistaken email saying the book was
not available, I spoke with an associate and was told the book would be
at the store check-out.

Yes, it was available at the store but they intended to charge me the
full standard in-store price. In other words, I arranged minimal packing
and delivery and they proposed to charge me about $8.50 for doing their
work!

Really, with policies like e-book readiness and pricing, I'm not
surprised that they are on the verge of closing stores. I'd hate to see
them go since Amazon needs competition but they can't seriously expect a
financial contribution from me to keep them in business.


--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <kivo65$i8l$1...@dont-email.me>,

Not to sidetrack your point (well, OK, I'm sidetracking your point).
if you didn't want to buy it from Amazon, and convert, it's on the
Baen site already in Nook format:

http://www.baenebooks.com/p-1762-necessitys-child.aspx
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
news:arhec5...@mid.individual.net:

I'm more concerened with B&N (or somebody working for them) chaning
my email preferences so as to add me to one of their newletter
mailing lists. With an outright broken unsubscribe link, and no
unsubscribe insturctions in the newsletter, which means they've
actually managed (incredible as it seems) to have violated CANSPAM.

I'm guessing that out of desperation they're now listening to the
snake oil pitches from the worst "marketing" companies, i.e.,
outright spammers. It looks to me like the beginnings of the death
spiral. A pity, too, since the local store here is excellent.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[James Silverton]

That says a lot about the efficiency of B&N, which has no idea what's
available for its own book reader, doesn't it?

[David DeLaney]

James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>I'm not surprised that B&N is in trouble. Let me recite my experience today.
>
>Today, I proposed to buy a Nook version of the recent book "Necessity's
>Child" by Sharon Lee and Steven Miller. Unlike Amazon, which has it
>available for the Kindle, a Nook version was not mentioned, tho' I was
>invited to inform the publisher that I would like it on Nook.
>
>However, the book was available at the web site for about $13.50 and I
>chose the option to pick it up in the nearest local store. After
>considerable confusion, including a mistaken email saying the book was
>not available, I spoke with an associate and was told the book would be
>at the store check-out.
>
>Yes, it was available at the store but they intended to charge me the
>full standard in-store price. In other words, I arranged minimal packing
>and delivery and they proposed to charge me about $8.50 for doing their work!

Apparently there is something gefuckten about their setup, wherein if you
choose to pick up the book in the store when they order it for you, it costs
the book cost, but if you choose to have it shipped to your home, it costs
a smaller cost (like 2/3 of the full cost or so). I do not know the basis
for this gefucktery. It can't be shipping costs, because shipping-to-store
could just get tucked in with the rest of the store shipment. I suspect it's
that ship-to-home is actually outsourced to Amazon or some such.

I don't do ship-to-home because I do not wish to have packages Mysteriously
Fail To Show Up Ever simply because I was either not there when the UPS truck
came, or was not awake, and someone else abstracted them from outside the door
because the package was left rather than a note being left saying 'sorry, we
could not get you to sign for this'. I always do ship-to-store. This price
differential has only shown up in the past couple months, though.

[Rod Speed]

"James Silverton" <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:kivo65$i8l$1...@dont-email.me...

They are also such terminal fuckwits that you can't even get
the FREE nook ebooks without a card with a US address on it.

Amazon aint that stupid.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:ari37f...@mid.individual.net:

Amazon restricts access, even to free books, geographically, too.
No matter how fucking stupid you are. B&N doesn't have as many
geographically specific web sites. Brits are kept in their own
little sandbox, so you don't see the stuff they aren't allowed to
distribute there.

Moron.

[Rod Speed]

"Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" <taus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA19157196CC...@69.16.186.50...

But to only a tiny subset of the free books. They arent actually
stupid enough to restrict access to ALL the free ebooks to those
who do have a card with a US billing address. And that approach
is completely useless for what they are trying to do anyway.

<reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed
where it belongs>

> B&N doesn't have as many geographically specific web sites.

I'm not using a geographically specific web site that is for my country in
either case.

> Brits are kept in their own little sandbox, so you don't
> see the stuff they aren't allowed to distribute there.

Irrelevant, I don�t even get the free amazon ebook lists from amazon,
fuckwit.

<reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed
where it belongs>

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in

news:ark234...@mid.individual.net:

They restrict access to 100% of those books they do not have
permission to distribute everywhere. Or are you accusing them of
criminal copyright violations?

> They arent actually
> stupid enough to restrict access to ALL the free ebooks to those
> who do have a card with a US billing address. And that approach
> is completely useless for what they are trying to do anyway.

B&N doesn't have much of an international presence, unlike Amazon.
So using US credit cards isn't an entirely unreasonable step. They
also check IP addresses for some thnings.

Your problem is that you are trying to do something that is
*illegal* for B&N to do, and they won't let you (largely because
you're too fucking stupid to figure out how tho get around those
trivial obstacles).

>
> <reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead
> flushed where it belongs>

Thank you for agreeing with me.

>
>> B&N doesn't have as many geographically specific web sites.
>
> I'm not using a geographically specific web site that is for my
> country in either case.

In Amazon's case, yes, you are, whether you're too fucking stupid
to realize it or not (and you are).

>
>> Brits are kept in their own little sandbox, so you don't
>> see the stuff they aren't allowed to distribute there.
>

> Irrelevant, I don�t even get the free amazon ebook lists from
> amazon, fuckwit.

Irrelevant to whether or not Amazon will let you download any
ebook, free or otherwise, for which they do not have the legal
right to distribute in your country. And Amaon's a *lot* better at
detecting where you actually are than B&N is.

>
> <reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead
> flushed where it belongs>
>

Thank you for agreeing with me.

[Rod Speed]

"Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy" <taus...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:XnsA191ACD9024...@69.16.186.50...

Which is, like I said, only a tiny subset of
the ebooks they do hand out for free.

> Or are you accusing them of criminal copyright violations?

Nope, just of doing what the law allows, unlike the clowns at B&N.

>> They arent actually stupid enough to restrict access to ALL the free
>> ebooks to those who do have a card with a US billing address. And that
>> approach is completely useless for what they are trying to do anyway.

> B&N doesn't have much of an international presence, unlike Amazon.

Irrelevant to what is trivially easy to do if you have even half a clue.

> So using US credit cards isn't an entirely unreasonable step.

Its completely silly when it doesn�t do a damned thing
about what the law requires with the sale of books.

> They also check IP addresses for some thnings.

Then they should get a fucking clue and use that to
decide who they can allow to receive free ebooks too.

> Your problem is that you are trying to do
> something that is *illegal* for B&N to do,

Like hell I am. ALL I want them to do is send
me the free ebooks that the law allows them
to send to me, just like Amazon does.

> and they won't let you

They wont let me because they are too fucking
stupid to do what Amazon does, perfectly legally.

Like I said, its no surprise that they are going broke.

<reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed
where it belongs>

>>> B&N doesn't have as many geographically specific web sites.

>> I'm not using a geographically specific web site that is for my
>> country in either case.

> In Amazon's case, yes, you are,

No I am not.

<reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed
where it belongs>

>>> Brits are kept in their own little sandbox, so you don't
>>> see the stuff they aren't allowed to distribute there.

>> Irrelevant, I don�t even get the free amazon ebook lists from

>> amazon, fuckwit.

> Irrelevant to whether or not Amazon will let you download
> any ebook, free or otherwise, for which they do not have
> the legal right to distribute in your country.

They don�t, fuckwit.

> And Amaon's a *lot* better at detecting
> where you actually are than B&N is.

That�s what I said, fuckwit.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in

news:ark5jn...@mid.individual.net:

Which is to say, you admit that your original claim was wrong,
stupidly wrong, and you knew it when you said it.

>
>> Or are you accusing them of criminal copyright violations?
>
> Nope, just of doing what the law allows, unlike the clowns at
> B&N.
>

B&N is doing exactly the same thing, retard. You're just too
fucking stupid to realize it.

>>> They arent actually stupid enough to restrict access to ALL
>>> the free ebooks to those who do have a card with a US billing
>>> address. And that approach is completely useless for what they
>>> are trying to do anyway.
>
>> B&N doesn't have much of an international presence, unlike
>> Amazon.
>
> Irrelevant to what is trivially easy to do if you have even half
> a clue.

As if you'd know half a clue if it were sucking your dick.

>
>> So using US credit cards isn't an entirely unreasonable step.
>

> Its completely silly when it doesn�t do a damned thing

> about what the law requires with the sale of books.

When that's the case, perahps, but it's a good faith effort to do
exactly the same thing.

>
>> They also check IP addresses for some thnings.
>
> Then they should get a fucking clue and use that to
> decide who they can allow to receive free ebooks too.
>
>> Your problem is that you are trying to do
>> something that is *illegal* for B&N to do,
>
> Like hell I am.

Liar.

> ALL I want them to do is send
> me the free ebooks that the law allows them
> to send to me, just like Amazon does.

Does B&N have _any_ presence in the UK? Far as I know, they don't.
Ergo, they have no right to distirbute _anything_ there.

You are, as usual, competely, utterly, totally full of shit, a
liar, and _agreeing with me_.

>
>> and they won't let you
>
> They wont let me because they are too fucking
> stupid to do what Amazon does, perfectly legally.

They won't let you beccause they have no legal right to send ebooks
to the UK.

>
> Like I said, its no surprise that they are going broke.

While they are, indeed, pretty stupid (and have lately taken to
spamming), in this case, you're the one who is stupid and full of
shit. Well, in _all_ cases, you're stupid and full of shit.

>
> <reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead
> flushed where it belongs>

Thank you for agreeing with me.
>

>>>> B&N doesn't have as many geographically specific web sites.
>
>>> I'm not using a geographically specific web site that is for
>>> my country in either case.
>
>> In Amazon's case, yes, you are,
>
> No I am not.

Yes, you are. You're just too fuckign stupid to realize it.

>
> <reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead
> flushed where it belongs>

Thank you for agreeing with me.
>

>>>> Brits are kept in their own little sandbox, so you don't
>>>> see the stuff they aren't allowed to distribute there.
>

>>> Irrelevant, I don�t even get the free amazon ebook lists from

>>> amazon, fuckwit.
>
>> Irrelevant to whether or not Amazon will let you download
>> any ebook, free or otherwise, for which they do not have
>> the legal right to distribute in your country.
>

> They don�t, fuckwit.

Who don't what? You are literally incoherent now. (Well, not just
now, but certainly at the moment.)

>
>> And Amaon's a *lot* better at detecting
>> where you actually are than B&N is.
>

> That�s what I said, fuckwit.

If you agree with me, why are you arguing? It takes a special (as
in, "rides the short bus") kind of stupid to argue with someone you
agree with. And even by the standard of special (as in, "rides the
short bus"), it takes a special (as in, "rides the short bus") kind
of stupid to do so every fucking day, the way you do.

>
> <reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead
> flushed where it belongs>
>

[Rod Speed]

Some terminal fuckwit desperately cowering behind

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote

just the puerile lying shit that it always ends up with when its
got done like a fucking dinner, as it ALWAYS is.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in news:arnc0iF8bqdU1
@mid.individual.net:

Thank you for again agreeing with everything I said, and providing
credible references to back me up.

[Rod Speed]

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in news:aruihdFqs3oU1
@mid.individual.net:

Thank you for agreeing with me on every point, and providing such
compelling evidence to support me.

[Rod Speed]

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in news:aruorcFs2cuU1

@mid.individual.net:

Thank you for agreeing with me on every point, and providing such

great references to support me.

Goss might get jealous, though his record of arguing with Pee Wee
Herman quotes and blank replies for eight months isn't in much
dnager. Yet.

[Rod Speed]

[Howard Brazee]

On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 11:58:38 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>puerile lying shit


It seems your favorite word is "puerile", and you use it to describe
anybody who disagrees with you.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

I know you are, but what am I?

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote in
news:n8cml8ttt15ncu14u...@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 11:58:38 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>puerile lying shit
>
>
> It seems your favorite word is "puerile", and you use it to
> describe anybody who disagrees with you.
>

Clearly, he sees in others what he sees in himself.

[Rod Speed]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>> puerile lying shit

> It seems your favorite word is "puerile",

Even a terminal fuckwit such as yourself should be able
to use groups.google and prove that that's a lie, fuckwit.

> and you use it to describe anybody who disagrees with you.

Even a terminal fuckwit such as yourself should be able
to use groups.google and prove that that's a lie, fuckwit.

[Rod Speed]

[Rod Speed]

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

I know you are, but what am I?

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

> Thank you for agreeing with me on every point, and providing such
> great references to support me.

> Goss might get jealous, though his record of arguing with Pee Wee
> Herman quotes and blank replies for eight months isn't in much
> dnager. Yet.

Heh.

I was indeed thinking, hey he's got another one. Go Terry!

--
[Summer Lords] "What makes you think they'd carry you?" - "Why, I'll just
threaten them with supplying their Breeders with exploding snow pebbles." -
"Ah, and I am going to create them, eh?" - "You Lords must be good for
something." -- Lanar and Tashen, S&E I: Controlled by Magic

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in news:MSGID_2=3A240=
2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> Thank you for agreeing with me on every point, and providing such
>> great references to support me.
>
>> Goss might get jealous, though his record of arguing with Pee Wee
>> Herman quotes and blank replies for eight months isn't in much
>> dnager. Yet.
>
> Heh.
>
> I was indeed thinking, hey he's got another one. Go Terry!
>

He won't have a tenth the staying power that Gregie had.

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote

>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>> Thank you for agreeing with me on every point, and providing
>>> such great references to support me.
>>
>>> Goss might get jealous, though his record of arguing with Pee
>>> Wee Herman quotes and blank replies for eight months isn't in
>>> much dnager. Yet.
>>
>> Heh.
>>
>> I was indeed thinking, hey he's got another one. Go Terry!
>>
> He won't have a tenth the staying power that Gregie had.

That might actually be a good thing. For him. After all, the
'competition' here is how long someone will fall for a troll.

Would of course be less entertainment value for us.

--
[leader of the Autumn tribe] "So who is?" - "Why don't you truly join my
household and try to figure that out? We could use you two." - "You mean
we've not already?" - Ghareg laughed. "You have to learn not to believe
everything someone tells you." -- Voreesa and Ghareg, S&E II: CtM

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in news:MSGID_2=3A240=
2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> Thank you for agreeing with me on every point, and providing
>>>> such great references to support me.
>>>
>>>> Goss might get jealous, though his record of arguing with Pee
>>>> Wee Herman quotes and blank replies for eight months isn't in
>>>> much dnager. Yet.
>>>
>>> Heh.
>>>
>>> I was indeed thinking, hey he's got another one. Go Terry!
>>>
>> He won't have a tenth the staying power that Gregie had.
>
> That might actually be a good thing. For him. After all, the
> 'competition' here is how long someone will fall for a troll.
>
> Would of course be less entertainment value for us.
>

Did you *really* find it entertaining to watch Greggie argue with
empty posts for eight months?

[Greg Goss]

>Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Goss might get jealous, though his record of arguing with Pee Wee
>> Herman quotes and blank replies for eight months isn't in much
>> dnager. Yet.

It was actually a year before Terry gave up.
--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote

>>>> I was indeed thinking, hey he's got another one. Go Terry!
>>>>
>>> He won't have a tenth the staying power that Gregie had.
>>
>> That might actually be a good thing. For him. After all, the
>> 'competition' here is how long someone will fall for a troll.
>>
>> Would of course be less entertainment value for us.
>>
> Did you *really* find it entertaining to watch Greggie argue with
> empty posts for eight months?

I didn't see his posts at all, just like I don't see the other guy's
posts here.

What entertains me is that you got them. Plus whatever you post.

--
"These things should have doors, so I could close them in your face."
Scavor snarled, frowning at the doorframe. "What do you want here?"
Panvar grinned. "Rhaevan would like to see her grandmother. I didn't
want you to growl her away." -- Seasons & Elements III

[Mark Zenier]

In article <XnsA1975E12FB1...@69.16.186.50>,

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in news:MSGID_2=3A240=
>2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:
>
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>> Thank you for agreeing with me on every point, and providing such
>>> great references to support me.
>>
>>> Goss might get jealous, though his record of arguing with Pee Wee
>>> Herman quotes and blank replies for eight months isn't in much
>>> dnager. Yet.
>>
>> Heh.
>>
>> I was indeed thinking, hey he's got another one. Go Terry!
>>
>He won't have a tenth the staying power that Gregie had.

And it only quit because the news propagation screwed up one day, giving
the appearance that both of you had won the Last Word Award.

Usenet relativity.

Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in news:as4463F38frU7
@mid.individual.net:

>>Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Goss might get jealous, though his record of arguing with Pee Wee
>>> Herman quotes and blank replies for eight months isn't in much
>>> dnager. Yet.
>
> It was actually a year before Terry gave up

No, it was about eight months before you stopped replying, despite
vowing that you would forever.

They just don't make bitches like they used to.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>
>>>>> I was indeed thinking, hey he's got another one. Go Terry!
>>>>>
>>>> He won't have a tenth the staying power that Gregie had.
>>>
>>> That might actually be a good thing. For him. After all, the
>>> 'competition' here is how long someone will fall for a troll.
>>>
>>> Would of course be less entertainment value for us.
>>>
>> Did you *really* find it entertaining to watch Greggie argue
>> with empty posts for eight months?
>
> I didn't see his posts at all, just like I don't see the other
> guy's posts here.
>
> What entertains me is that you got them. Plus whatever you post.
>

I like to play with my food.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

mze...@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) wrote in
news:kjk5f...@enews1.newsguy.com:

Sssh. I know that, and you know that, but Greggie's entire sense of
self is built on his lack of understanding of how asyncrhoise
distributed network function (or fail to). You'll cause him great
distress if you explain it in small enough words for him to
understand. Plus, he might not wriggle quite so seductively on my
hook any more.

[Greg Goss]

mze...@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) wrote:
>Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>And it only quit because the news propagation screwed up one day, giving
>the appearance that both of you had won the Last Word Award.

It happened twice about two weeks apart. I posted three times after
his last post the second time.

The thread is still there, like any thread in usenet. He isn't
killfiled when he posts to the thread in question.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Greggie, greggie, greggie. Reduced to simply (and bad) lying now.
Tsk, tsk.

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in

news:as60op...@mid.individual.net:

> mze...@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) wrote:
>>Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>And it only quit because the news propagation screwed up one
>>day, giving the appearance that both of you had won the Last
>>Word Award.
>
> It happened twice about two weeks apart. I posted three times
> after his last post the second time.
>
> The thread is still there, like any thread in usenet. He isn't
> killfiled when he posts to the thread in question.



--

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Did you *really* find it entertaining to watch Greggie argue
>>> with empty posts for eight months?
>>
>> I didn't see his posts at all, just like I don't see the other
>> guy's posts here.
>>
>> What entertains me is that you got them. Plus whatever you post.
>>
> I like to play with my food.

Yeah. That's what I like watching. :)

--
"Did you make a mistake when you cut off your end of the tie and
somehow swapped identities with Thalos?"
Arentus grinned. "Maybe you and I did."
-- Senar and Arentus, Magic Earth IV: Seeing Far

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in news:MSGID_2=3A240=
2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Did you *really* find it entertaining to watch Greggie argue
>>>> with empty posts for eight months?
>>>
>>> I didn't see his posts at all, just like I don't see the other
>>> guy's posts here.
>>>
>>> What entertains me is that you got them. Plus whatever you post.
>>>
>> I like to play with my food.
>
> Yeah. That's what I like watching. :)
>

I can't decide which one of us is more pervy.

[David DeLaney]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in news:MSGID_2=3A240=

>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Did you *really* find it entertaining to watch Greggie argue
>>>>> with empty posts for eight months?
>>>>
>>>> I didn't see his posts at all, just like I don't see the other
>>>> guy's posts here.
>>>>
>>>> What entertains me is that you got them. Plus whatever you post.
>>>>
>>> I like to play with my food.
>>
>> Yeah. That's what I like watching. :)
>
>I can't decide which one of us is more pervy.

Research must continue.

Dave, getting the grants is difficult
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote in
news:slrnklu29...@gatekeeper.vic.com:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in
>>news:MSGID_2=3A240=
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Did you *really* find it entertaining to watch Greggie
>>>>>> argue with empty posts for eight months?
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't see his posts at all, just like I don't see the
>>>>> other guy's posts here.
>>>>>
>>>>> What entertains me is that you got them. Plus whatever you
>>>>> post.
>>>>>
>>>> I like to play with my food.
>>>
>>> Yeah. That's what I like watching. :)
>>
>>I can't decide which one of us is more pervy.
>
> Research must continue.
>
> Dave, getting the grants is difficult

It's one thing to like to watch, but someone who likes to watch
someone watch is just . . . sad.

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote

>>>> What entertains me is that you got them. Plus whatever you
>>>> post.
>>>>
>>> I like to play with my food.
>>
>> Yeah. That's what I like watching. :)
>>
> I can't decide which one of us is more pervy.

Hey, I'm just watching, you are actually doing stuff. ;P

--
[drawing] "Someone did actually add a tiny Lord somewhere at the back,
waving his Warriors on cheerfully." Gorash chuckled.
(Ansin) "That was Jodra. It also added all the flowers my Warriors had
to wade through." -- Seasons & Elements I: Controlled by Magic

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in news:MSGID_2=3A240=
2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>
>>>>> What entertains me is that you got them. Plus whatever you
>>>>> post.
>>>>>
>>>> I like to play with my food.
>>>
>>> Yeah. That's what I like watching. :)
>>>
>> I can't decide which one of us is more pervy.
>
> Hey, I'm just watching, you are actually doing stuff. ;P
>

My point exactly. Vicarious pervyness is still pervy.

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> I like to play with my food.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah. That's what I like watching. :)
>>>>
>>> I can't decide which one of us is more pervy.
>>
>> Hey, I'm just watching, you are actually doing stuff. ;P
>>
> My point exactly. Vicarious pervyness is still pervy.

And here I thought you'd like a cheering audience. ;P

--
Jodra sat down on the ground, peering at the miniature landscape below,
trying to make out details.
"Wonderful." Ansin said. "You're not going to get _him_ out of here for
years." -- Seasons & Elements II: Controlling the Magic

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in news:MSGID_2=3A240=
2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> I like to play with my food.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah. That's what I like watching. :)
>>>>>
>>>> I can't decide which one of us is more pervy.
>>>
>>> Hey, I'm just watching, you are actually doing stuff. ;P
>>>
>> My point exactly. Vicarious pervyness is still pervy.
>
> And here I thought you'd like a cheering audience. ;P
>

At no point did I claim that either of us was *not* pervy. I was just
undecided on which was more so.

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>>> I like to play with my food.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah. That's what I like watching. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>> I can't decide which one of us is more pervy.
>>>>
>>>> Hey, I'm just watching, you are actually doing stuff. ;P
>>>>
>>> My point exactly. Vicarious pervyness is still pervy.
>>
>> And here I thought you'd like a cheering audience. ;P
>>
> At no point did I claim that either of us was *not* pervy. I was
> just undecided on which was more so.

Yes.

My position is that acting is more pervy than watching. :P

--
"Maybe you should go after them to make sure he doesn't run off with our
mother." - "He has quite enough Breeders of his own. Besides, he'd send her
back after a day, after she confused him enough to think he's a Magic Priest."
-- Lanar, Aranar, Seasons & Elements II: Controlling the Magic

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in news:MSGID_2=3A240=
2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> I like to play with my food.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah. That's what I like watching. :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't decide which one of us is more pervy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey, I'm just watching, you are actually doing stuff. ;P
>>>>>
>>>> My point exactly. Vicarious pervyness is still pervy.
>>>
>>> And here I thought you'd like a cheering audience. ;P
>>>
>> At no point did I claim that either of us was *not* pervy. I was
>> just undecided on which was more so.
>
> Yes.
>
> My position is that acting is more pervy than watching. :P
>

Well, it would be, now wouldn't it? The Peeping Tina never wants to
admit she's done anything wrong, especially when caught.

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>> I like to play with my food.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah. That's what I like watching. :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't decide which one of us is more pervy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey, I'm just watching, you are actually doing stuff. ;P
>>>>>>
>>>>> My point exactly. Vicarious pervyness is still pervy.
>>>>
>>>> And here I thought you'd like a cheering audience. ;P
>>>>
>>> At no point did I claim that either of us was *not* pervy. I
>>> was just undecided on which was more so.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> My position is that acting is more pervy than watching. :P
>>
> Well, it would be, now wouldn't it? The Peeping Tina never wants
> to admit she's done anything wrong, especially when caught.

LOL. :))

You think your actions and my watching is wrong?

--
Thay threw up his hands. "Half the tribes think we're bad to Breeders, the
other half thinks we're the best thing that could happen to them. And it's
really quite the other way round." -- S&E II: Controlling the Magic
Excerpts at: <http://home.htp-tel.de/fkoerper/ath/athintro.htm>

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

Wrong is a value judgment. A matter of opinion. The issue is
whether or not *you* think you've done something wrong.

[Tina Hall]

Oh, but then there is nothing to admit in this case.

--
[horns] "I tried them when they first made it up, but no one got the joke."
-- Arentus, Magic Earth I: Getting Caught
Excerpts at: <http://home.htp-tel.de/fkoerper/ath/athintro.htm>
Misc bits: <http://ath-stories.livejournal.com/>

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

Or so you claim. but then, you would.

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote

>>>>>>>> And here I thought you'd like a cheering audience. ;P
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At no point did I claim that either of us was *not* pervy.
>>>>>>> I was just undecided on which was more so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My position is that acting is more pervy than watching. :P
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well, it would be, now wouldn't it? The Peeping Tina never
>>>>> wants to admit she's done anything wrong, especially when
>>>>> caught.
>>>>
>>>> LOL. :))
>>>>
>>>> You think your actions and my watching is wrong?
>>>>
>>> Wrong is a value judgment. A matter of opinion. The issue is
>>> whether or not *you* think you've done something wrong.
>>
>> Oh, but then there is nothing to admit in this case.
>>
> Or so you claim. but then, you would.

I am confused. You say it's entirely up to what I think, and now
it's just a claim?

I guess I'll trust your judgement. But when I ask you if it's wrong
or not, you don't say, so what am I to do?

Here, take a pick.

[ ] Tina replies: "Yes Master, whatever you say, Master."
[ ] Tina argues and loses, as is the course in arguing with you.
[ ] Tina stays confused but chats with you anyway, it's fun!

--
(Thay) "Where is that stalker anyway?"
(Shareahn) "Spooking the forest with Lernay and the icicles."
"Are you sure that isn't 'spooking in the forest'?"
[shakes head] "No, they scare all the trees, and no one else." --S&E III

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

Opinions, assholes, etc. Worth what we paid, even.

>
> I guess I'll trust your judgement. But when I ask you if it's
> wrong or not, you don't say, so what am I to do?

Dance in an entertainly stupid manner. Welcome to usenet.

>
> Here, take a pick.
>
> [ ] Tina replies: "Yes Master, whatever you say, Master."
> [ ] Tina argues and loses, as is the course in arguing with you.
> [ ] Tina stays confused but chats with you anyway, it's fun!
>

You seem to think these are mutually exclusive.

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote

>>>>>>>> My position is that acting is more pervy than watching. :P
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, it would be, now wouldn't it? The Peeping Tina never
>>>>>>> wants to admit she's done anything wrong, especially when
>>>>>>> caught.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL. :))
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You think your actions and my watching is wrong?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong is a value judgment. A matter of opinion. The issue is
>>>>> whether or not *you* think you've done something wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, but then there is nothing to admit in this case.
>>>>
>>> Or so you claim. but then, you would.
>>
>> I am confused. You say it's entirely up to what I think, and now
>> it's just a claim?

> Opinions, assholes, etc. Worth what we paid, even.

Like, nothing? :)

>> I guess I'll trust your judgement. But when I ask you if it's
>> wrong or not, you don't say, so what am I to do?

> Dance in an entertainly stupid manner. Welcome to usenet.

Ok.

I don't have to get up and move about, do I, what with this only
being text...?

>> Here, take a pick.
>>
>> [ ] Tina replies: "Yes Master, whatever you say, Master."
>> [ ] Tina argues and loses, as is the course in arguing with you.
>> [ ] Tina stays confused but chats with you anyway, it's fun!
>>
> You seem to think these are mutually exclusive.

They're not?

--
Theron growled again and picked her up, carrying her away. Jansha
grinned at them with her head leaned back, upside down.
(Tashen) "Whoever needs drakes when you've got a Summer Lord nearby?"

[David DeLaney]

Tina Hall <Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org> wrote:
>Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> I guess I'll trust your judgement. But when I ask you if it's
>>> wrong or not, you don't say, so what am I to do?
>
>> Dance in an entertainly stupid manner. Welcome to usenet.
>
>Ok.
>
>I don't have to get up and move about, do I, what with this only
>being text...?

Unless you have your text webcam on, he'll never know the difference, right?

Dave, dance like nobody's tweeting

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>
>>>>>>>>> My position is that acting is more pervy than watching.
>>>>>>>>> :P
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, it would be, now wouldn't it? The Peeping Tina
>>>>>>>> never wants to admit she's done anything wrong,
>>>>>>>> especially when caught.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL. :))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You think your actions and my watching is wrong?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrong is a value judgment. A matter of opinion. The issue
>>>>>> is whether or not *you* think you've done something wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, but then there is nothing to admit in this case.
>>>>>
>>>> Or so you claim. but then, you would.
>>>
>>> I am confused. You say it's entirely up to what I think, and
>>> now it's just a claim?
>
>> Opinions, assholes, etc. Worth what we paid, even.
>
> Like, nothing? :)

Ineed.

>
>>> I guess I'll trust your judgement. But when I ask you if it's
>>> wrong or not, you don't say, so what am I to do?
>
>> Dance in an entertainly stupid manner. Welcome to usenet.
>
> Ok.
>
> I don't have to get up and move about, do I, what with this only
> being text...?

I suppose you could go for a video, if you want.

>
>>> Here, take a pick.
>>>
>>> [ ] Tina replies: "Yes Master, whatever you say, Master."
>>> [ ] Tina argues and loses, as is the course in arguing with
>>> you. [ ] Tina stays confused but chats with you anyway, it's
>>> fun!
>>>
>> You seem to think these are mutually exclusive.
>
> They're not?
>

In what way would any of them preclude any of the rest?

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote

>>>> I guess I'll trust your judgement. But when I ask you if it's
>>>> wrong or not, you don't say, so what am I to do?
>>
>>> Dance in an entertainly stupid manner. Welcome to usenet.
>>
>> Ok.
>>
>> I don't have to get up and move about, do I, what with this only
>> being text...?

> I suppose you could go for a video, if you want.

Oh, no. Don't want to give you nightmares!

(Some might want to, but I really don't.)

>>>> Here, take a pick.
>>>>
>>>> [ ] Tina replies: "Yes Master, whatever you say, Master."
>>>> [ ] Tina argues and loses, as is the course in arguing with
>>>> you.
>>>> [ ] Tina stays confused but chats with you anyway, it's fun!
>>>>
>>> You seem to think these are mutually exclusive.
>>
>> They're not?
>>
> In what way would any of them preclude any of the rest?

That's a trick question.

Anything I say can and will be twisted and used against me.

Hey, I might be confused, but I know who I'm talking with!

[Tina Hall]

Dbd <d...@vic.com> wrote:
> Tina Hall <Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org> wrote:
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> I guess I'll trust your judgement. But when I ask you if it's
>>>> wrong or not, you don't say, so what am I to do?
>>
>>> Dance in an entertainly stupid manner. Welcome to usenet.
>>
>> Ok.
>>
>> I don't have to get up and move about, do I, what with this only
>> being text...?

> Unless you have your text webcam on, he'll never know the
> difference, right?

Even it there were a text cam, this computer is still not connected
to the 'web'.

Muhahaha.

--
"We need to talk to whoever you've propped up to take care of larger matters,
as well as you and your brother." - "Propped up. Hah. We should tie them down.
They all run off to the country to tend their own ground. Don't worry. We'll
dig out the current victim of leadership." -- S&E I, Controlled by Magic

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in news:MSGID_2=3A240=
2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org:

> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>
>>>>> I guess I'll trust your judgement. But when I ask you if it's
>>>>> wrong or not, you don't say, so what am I to do?
>>>
>>>> Dance in an entertainly stupid manner. Welcome to usenet.
>>>
>>> Ok.
>>>
>>> I don't have to get up and move about, do I, what with this
only
>>> being text...?
>
>> I suppose you could go for a video, if you want.
>
> Oh, no. Don't want to give you nightmares!
>
> (Some might want to, but I really don't.)

Heh.

>
>>>>> Here, take a pick.
>>>>>
>>>>> [ ] Tina replies: "Yes Master, whatever you say, Master."
>>>>> [ ] Tina argues and loses, as is the course in arguing with
>>>>> you.
>>>>> [ ] Tina stays confused but chats with you anyway, it's fun!
>>>>>
>>>> You seem to think these are mutually exclusive.
>>>
>>> They're not?
>>>
>> In what way would any of them preclude any of the rest?
>
> That's a trick question.

No, that's the issue at hand.

>
> Anything I say can and will be twisted and used against me.

True, but irrelevant.

>
> Hey, I might be confused, but I know who I'm talking with!
>

I'm sure there's a corroloary to the Dilber Principle somewhere to
cover that.

[J. Clarke]

In article <MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org>,
Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org says...

>
> Dbd <d...@vic.com> wrote:
> > Tina Hall <Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org> wrote:
> >> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> I guess I'll trust your judgement. But when I ask you if it's
> >>>> wrong or not, you don't say, so what am I to do?
> >>
> >>> Dance in an entertainly stupid manner. Welcome to usenet.
> >>
> >> Ok.
> >>
> >> I don't have to get up and move about, do I, what with this only
> >> being text...?
>
> > Unless you have your text webcam on, he'll never know the
> > difference, right?
>
> Even it there were a text cam, this computer is still not connected
> to the 'web'.

It isn't? Then how it is that I am seeing your posts?

[Tina Hall]

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote

>>>>>> Here, take a pick.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [ ] Tina replies: "Yes Master, whatever you say, Master."
>>>>>> [ ] Tina argues and loses, as is the course in arguing with
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>> [ ] Tina stays confused but chats with you anyway, it's fun!
>>>>>>
>>>>> You seem to think these are mutually exclusive.
>>>>
>>>> They're not?
>>>>
>>> In what way would any of them preclude any of the rest?
>>
>> That's a trick question.

> No, that's the issue at hand.

That, too. But you want to trick me!

>> Anything I say can and will be twisted and used against me.

> True, but irrelevant.

I wouldn't call your posting style irrelevant. It's what makes it so
much fun to watch.

>> Hey, I might be confused, but I know who I'm talking with!
>>
> I'm sure there's a corroloary to the Dilber Principle somewhere
> to cover that.

I looked that up and, well, learned something. But that doesn't help
here.

--
(Ipoq) "You'll have to visit the Water tribe one day. There are plants
that wander, and animals with something like roots."
(Thay) "I think I'm confused enough."
(Ghareg) "I didn't even say anything yet." -- Seasons & Elements III

[David DeLaney]

Tina Hall <Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org> wrote:
>Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote

>>> That's a trick question.
>
>> No, that's the issue at hand.
>
>That, too. But you want to trick me!

And then he wants to treat you!

>I wouldn't call your posting style irrelevant. It's what makes it so
>much fun to watch.

Last night he shot an irrelevant in his pyjamas.

Dave

[Brian M. Scott]

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 23:01:37 -0400, David DeLaney
<d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in
<news:slrnknmd4...@gatekeeper.vic.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> Tina Hall <Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org> wrote:

>>Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote

>>>> That's a trick question.

>>> No, that's the issue at hand.

>>That, too. But you want to trick me!

> And then he wants to treat you!

>> I wouldn't call your posting style irrelevant. It's what
>> makes it so much fun to watch.

> Last night he shot an irrelevant in his pyjamas.

'Irr, 'irr!

Brian

[Tina Hall]

Dbd <d...@vic.com> wrote:
> Tina Hall <Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org> wrote:
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote

>>>> That's a trick question.
>>
>>> No, that's the issue at hand.
>>
>> That, too. But you want to trick me!

> And then he wants to treat you!

>> I wouldn't call your posting style irrelevant. It's what makes
>> it so much fun to watch.

> Last night he shot an irrelevant in his pyjamas.

You seriously made the above post? Why?

How old are you?

[David DeLaney]

Tina Hall <Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org> wrote:
>Dbd <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>> Tina Hall <Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>
>>>>> That's a trick question.
>>>
>>>> No, that's the issue at hand.
>>>
>>> That, too. But you want to trick me!
>
>> And then he wants to treat you!
>
>>> I wouldn't call your posting style irrelevant. It's what makes
>>> it so much fun to watch.
>
>> Last night he shot an irrelevant in his pyjamas.
>
>You seriously made the above post? Why?

Because absolutely nobody else would have. I think you'll agree. You know my
methods.

>How old are you?

Right now? 48. And counting.

Dave, old enough not to make it 48 and two-thirds

[J. Clarke]

In article <MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org>,
Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org says...
>

> Dbd <d...@vic.com> wrote:
> > Tina Hall <Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org> wrote:
> >> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote
>
> >>>> That's a trick question.
> >>
> >>> No, that's the issue at hand.
> >>
> >> That, too. But you want to trick me!
>
> > And then he wants to treat you!
>
> >> I wouldn't call your posting style irrelevant. It's what makes
> >> it so much fun to watch.
>
> > Last night he shot an irrelevant in his pyjamas.
>
> You seriously made the above post? Why?
>
> How old are you?

Clearly old enough to appreciate the Marx Brothers and to have
internalized their humor to the point that he can play upon it on
occasion.