_The Worm Ouroboros_ (a review with spoilers)
Nancy Lebovitz
William Clifford <wo...@hooya.com> wrote:
>!!WARNING!! CONTAINS UNREMITTING SPOILERS!!
>
>(actually I try to keep the spoiler content fairly low by use of
>summary but from here on down I reserve the right to spoil without
>warning.)
>
>It's been a day since I finished it and I'm not sure whether this is
>one of the greatest fantasy novels of the twentieth century or one of
>the very worst ones ever.
>
>The first seven chapters dazzle with their brilliance and left this
>reader breathless. Thereafter things are rather slower. And sure it
>would be hard to keep up the pace set up until then. There are high
>points but it eventually got so frustrating to read that it became a
>chore to push on through until another great scene occured. But the
>good stuff. Wow.
>
>It should be said that the prose in this book is the most purple,
>florid, and overwrought writing you will *ever* come across. Whoever
>said "All bad poetry comes from genuine feelings" may have known E.R.
>Eddison for in this book are the most genuine enthusiasms expressed in
>the most gratuitously purple language.
>
>And yet Eddison seems totally innocent in his enthusiasm for his
>fantasy for he somehow carries it off. The descriptions never fail to
>come alive with intricate detail and an explosion of color. The prose
>is like a landscape painting that won't stop. This innocence and
>enthusiasm remind that, early in his career, Ed Wood (the creator of
>such cinematic, uh cinema as _Plan 9 from Outer Space_) genuinely
>thought he was making great movies. Seems too me that E.R. Eddison may
>have been of the same character and thought he was writing a
>masterpiece.
>
>He probably did in a way. In the introduction in my version we learn
>he was making this story up when he was young, drawing out the scenes,
>and acting them out in the make-believe lands of his friends. We may
>think genius or stunted maturity that he was able to write this book
>with as high percentage the youthful energy he had when drawing and
>playing it out the first time.
>
>Also adding to the childlike qualities of the book is the naming
>convention. There is none. The story takes place on "Mercury." I'll
>say no more about that.
>
>The heros are known as "Demons." They have names like Juss, Goldry
>Bluszco, Brandoch Daha, and Spitfire. The minor lords of demon land
>are named Vizz, Volle, and Zigg. They even have horns like the devils
>we know but there the resemblance pretty much ends. The Lords of
>Demonland are wealthy lords rich beyond the feeble dreams of avarice.
>They are noble beyond the petty things we know as morality. Demons are
>a handsome and beautiful people. From the detail laden descriptions in
>chapter one we learn that they are as virtuous as they are gaudy. In
>subsequent chapters we learn that they are dumber than rocks.
>
>The "allies" of the Demons are the Goblins who are not described much.
>They come off like ne'er do well bethren of the demons and are
>somehow, even dumber. So dumb is Gaslark, the king of Goblinland, that
>in the first chapters I had a hard time believing it wasn't somehow
>deliberate. But no, as it turned out, he really was that dumb.
>
>Where the good guys seem too good to be true and too stupid to live
>the bad guys are the work of mighty literary genius. They are too evil
>to be false, AND too stupid to live.
>
>The enemies of the Demons are the Witches of Witchland. They have had
>twelve kings all named Gorice. Somehow all Gorices are actually the
>same Gorice but they seen to vary greatly in there powers and
>abilities, and characters. The two Gorices we meet are a fine examples
>of this. The twelveth Gorice is a magician of truly fearsome power.
>Gorice XI was a wrestler of truly fearsome stupidity. The other
>prinicple lords of Witchland are Corsus, Corinius, and Corund and his
>sons (largely anonymous in character if not in name). Corund is an
>aging warlord who becomes a curiously sympathic character by the end.
>Corsus and Corinius are in some kind of competition to see who can be
>the most unendurably stupid in way comepletely unique to themselves.
>
>There are other lords of Witchland, such as Laxus, but no matter how
>treacherous and evil they are, somehow you just feel sorry for them.
>
>The Witches are aided by Lord Gro, formerly of Goblinland. Lord Gro,
>whether by design or by accident becomes the piece de resistance of
>_The Worm Ouroboros_. You can't get away from Lord Gro. He's been
>everywhere, he's seen everything, he appears to be the only character
>with a brain. He is able to survive and even florish among the mighty
>engine of political ineptitude that is Witchland. I find that I cannot
>say much more of Lord Gro. I openly admired this poor doomed character
>and was very sad when his part was ended.
>
>It would take me all night to try to describe all the other elements
>of the plot itself. Suffice to say it was magnificent and
>magnificently bad at the same time. The energy of this story is
>incredible. It is burdensome to read at times but it never restrains
>itself. It moves ever onward like a great purple juggernaut of
>crushing imaginative power. It's wake is not destruction but a
>creation. It's a story of such proportions it boggles the critical
>powers and slashes the gordian knot of good taste. I've not read it's
>like.
And I'm not sure if this is the best or worst review I've read for
a long time--there's rather little specific (surely there were
some particular stupidities that could have been lovingly detailed?),
but the combination of insult and enthusiasm and emotional accuracy
made it tremendous fun to read--enough fun that when my newsreader
brought back some 6-month old posts from the depths of time and I
saw that there weren't any follow-ups, I thought it was worth bringing
back to the newsgroup.
One small caveat--I think of the book as having a slow beginning and
speeding up toward the end.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Eric D. Berge
wrote:
>In article <370a3c93...@news.ionline.com>,
>William Clifford <wo...@hooya.com> wrote:
>>!!WARNING!! CONTAINS UNREMITTING SPOILERS!!
>>
>>(actually I try to keep the spoiler content fairly low by use of
>>summary but from here on down I reserve the right to spoil without
>>warning.)
>>
>>It's been a day since I finished it and I'm not sure whether this is
>>one of the greatest fantasy novels of the twentieth century or one of
>>the very worst ones ever.
>And I'm not sure if this is the best or worst review I've read for
>a long time--there's rather little specific (surely there were
>some particular stupidities that could have been lovingly detailed?),
>but the combination of insult and enthusiasm and emotional accuracy
>made it tremendous fun to read--enough fun that when my newsreader
>brought back some 6-month old posts from the depths of time and I
>saw that there weren't any follow-ups, I thought it was worth bringing
>back to the newsgroup.
I thought it was pretty much on the mark (and quite amusing - I was
chuckling all the way through). It took me three tries at The Worm
before I could overcome my reaction to the setting - "Mercury"?
"Witches"? "Demons"? Oy.
Although I think that William fails to appreciate the type of logic
that Eddison employs on its own terms; this isn't an sf-genre fantasy
novel, it's a fairy tale, and the people in it behave accordingly. By
the same criteria, you could call the behavior of Arthur & co. in
Mallory "stupid".
>One small caveat--I think of the book as having a slow beginning and
>speeding up toward the end.
Nah - I'm with the other guy. I thought the best part of the book was
the wrestling match with Gorice XI.
--
Eric D. Berge
------------------------------------------------------------------
Clay lies still, but blood's a rover
Breath's a ware that will not keep
Up, lad! When the journey's over
There'll be time enough to sleep.
- A.E.Housman, "Reveille"
------------------------------------------------------------------
CynW514
>the wrestling match with Gorice XI.
>--
> Eric D. Berge
>-
IMO things got hopping any time any Gorice showed up. The sorcerer was pretty
good too.
Cyn
Demian Phillips
>And I'm not sure if this is the best or worst review I've read for
>a long time--there's rather little specific (surely there were
>some particular stupidities that could have been lovingly detailed?),
>but the combination of insult and enthusiasm and emotional accuracy
>made it tremendous fun to read--enough fun that when my newsreader
>brought back some 6-month old posts from the depths of time and I
>saw that there weren't any follow-ups, I thought it was worth bringing
>back to the newsgroup.
I think I can see where the reviewer is coming from because there were
a few times I put it down for a while.
>One small caveat--I think of the book as having a slow beginning and
>speeding up toward the end.
The book reminded me of epics like the Mahabarata.
wish I could find a decent translation of both the Mahabarata and One
Thousand and One Nights. All the versions I ever see some "scholar"
has decided to "tell it his way".
--
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|^_^ |Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty |
|Demian Phillips |five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I |
|PGP KEY ID 0x5BC4FCB4|finally won out over it. - Elwood P. Dowd |
raks...@my-deja.com
> The book reminded me of epics like the Mahabarata.
> wish I could find a decent translation of both the Mahabarata and One
> Thousand and One Nights. All the versions I ever see some "scholar"
> has decided to "tell it his way".
I have a translation of the Mahabharata that's very readable, even
poetic, and is supposed to be very accurate. It's by Kamala... drat,
blanking on her last name... something like Padmanabram. Anyway, it's
a big orange hardcover.
I picked it up in India (Crossroads bookshop, Pune) and I don't think
it's ever been published in the US. If I was you and sufficiently
desperate, I'd check to see if any Indian bookshops have an online
presence you could order from.
Rachel
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Eric D. Berge
wrote:
>The book reminded me of epics like the Mahabarata.
>wish I could find a decent translation of both the Mahabarata and One
>Thousand and One Nights. All the versions I ever see some "scholar"
>has decided to "tell it his way".
Can't help you with the Mahabharata (though if you live in the San
Francisco bay area, one of the Indian TV stations up here is
broadcasting a very entertaining TV adaptation of it), but the Richard
Burton translation of the Thousand and One Nights is excellent.
Maureen O'Brien
>broadcasting a very entertaining TV adaptation of it), but the Richard
>Burton translation of the Thousand and One Nights is excellent.
I understand that a lot of Arabic scholars disagree. <g> I mean, yeah,
the original stories have sex and poetic language. Burton, however,
apparently took it upon himself to add more of both. A lot more. And
got very much more descriptive, too. In the essay I read, the Arabic
scholar compared various translations of a scene to Burton's. It was...
instructive. Saved me from spending time and money on Burton.
Maureen
Eric D. Berge
Really? Oh, well. The Burton translations read well in English,
anyway.
david carlton
> The book reminded me of epics like the Mahabarata.
> wish I could find a decent translation of both the Mahabarata and One
> Thousand and One Nights. All the versions I ever see some "scholar"
> has decided to "tell it his way".
There aren't any decent complete English translations of the
Mahabharata. Attempting to translate it tends to kill the translator;
I rather like the van Buitenen translation, but it only got as far as
the first five books (and part of book six) before he died. (I've
heard that there are plans to complete it, but I haven't seen anything
concrete on that; I'm certainly not holding my breath; there's
certainly enough good stuff in the completed volumes to make it well
worth reading.) The only complete translation into English is about a
century old, and I didn't find it readable when I tried it a decade
and a bit ago. (It's also almost impossible to find unless you have
access to an appropriate university library.)
The Arabian Nights is another mess: there's a big question of just
what text you are translating when you translate it, because the very
earliest versions in European languages gathered stories from lots of
different places, so you're version is either going to be at least
partially adapted from earlier European versions or, if you want a
version translated from Arabic, is going to leave out some famous
stories. Either way, any serious version (i.e. not just a retelling
of some of our favorite stories from the Arabian Nights for kids, or
something like that) is going to involve many more fundamental
decisions by the translator than is the case with more books. (There
are somewhat similar, though less serious issues with the Mahabharata:
it circulated as oral literature for centuries (a millenium and a
half? I can't remember) primarily as an oral text, with significant
chunks added to it; and even if there were early versions written
down, they didn't survive India's climate.)
Having said that, I quite liked the version of the Arabian Nights by
Husain Haddawy; he published one volume that contains a translation of
the core Arabic text, and a second volume that contains translations
of many popular stories that aren't part of the core text but that
show up in other European editions. So, if you haven't already, read
that and the van Buitenen Mahabharata, and maybe you'll be happy.
david carlton | <http://math.stanford.edu/~carlton/>
car...@math.stanford.edu | Go books: <http://math.stanford.edu/~carlton/go/>
You can't hurt me!! I have an ASSUMABLE MORTGAGE!!
Demian Phillips
>On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:59:08 GMT, Demian Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>The book reminded me of epics like the Mahabarata.
>>wish I could find a decent translation of both the Mahabarata and One
>>Thousand and One Nights. All the versions I ever see some "scholar"
>>has decided to "tell it his way".
>
>Can't help you with the Mahabharata (though if you live in the San
>Francisco bay area, one of the Indian TV stations up here is
>broadcasting a very entertaining TV adaptation of it), but the Richard
>Burton translation of the Thousand and One Nights is excellent.
Humm. All the "scholars" I see with thier own version say burton
hacked it to bits.
I have an old hardbound version of the burton. It might even be an
early printing, think it's safe?
Demian Phillips
>Eric D. Berge said:
>>broadcasting a very entertaining TV adaptation of it), but the Richard
>>Burton translation of the Thousand and One Nights is excellent.
>
>I understand that a lot of Arabic scholars disagree. <g> I mean, yeah,
>the original stories have sex and poetic language. Burton, however,
>apparently took it upon himself to add more of both. A lot more. And
>got very much more descriptive, too. In the essay I read, the Arabic
>scholar compared various translations of a scene to Burton's. It was...
>instructive. Saved me from spending time and money on Burton.
>
Can you recommend another english version I may compare?
Demian Phillips
>
>> The book reminded me of epics like the Mahabarata.
>> wish I could find a decent translation of both the Mahabarata and One
>> Thousand and One Nights. All the versions I ever see some "scholar"
>> has decided to "tell it his way".
>
>I have a translation of the Mahabharata that's very readable, even
>poetic, and is supposed to be very accurate. It's by Kamala... drat,
>blanking on her last name... something like Padmanabram. Anyway, it's
>a big orange hardcover.
>
>I picked it up in India (Crossroads bookshop, Pune) and I don't think
>it's ever been published in the US. If I was you and sufficiently
>desperate, I'd check to see if any Indian bookshops have an online
>presence you could order from.
>
>Rachel
>
When I was growing up I knew a man who learned sanskrit and did a
translation. I think it was spoken on audio only and was like over 40
cassettes. I remember it was quite complete, but left out the Bhagavad
Gita since he deferred to Shrila Prabhupad (ISKCON*) on that part.
ISKCON= International Society for Krishna Conciseness
Susana Serras Pereira
"Demian Phillips" <dem...@cmhcsys.com> wrote in message
news:853fusg3tbru9rps6...@4ax.com...
> Eric D. Berge <eric_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Can't help you with the Mahabharata (though if you live in the San
> >Francisco bay area, one of the Indian TV stations up here is
> >Burton translation of the Thousand and One Nights is excellent.
>
> hacked it to bits.
He did. And added, and interpreted to the point of nearly
writing something new. But that something is worthwhile in
and of itself, I think, like Fitzgerald's version of the
Rubayat.
> I have an old hardbound version of the burton. It might even be an
> early printing, think it's safe?
Not for any closeness to the original, no. But for reading
as its own piece, yes. And it's good to remember that Burton's
_Arabian Nights_ were the basis for much of the later
elaboration on the theme. And (she said digressing) Captain
Sir Richard Francis Burton himself was a fascinating figure,
well worth finding a good bio or two of.
ObOtherBooks: _Samarkand_, by Amin Maalouf, an incredible book
about the Rubayat, is a hidden history of sorts.
ObSF: Phillip Jose Farmer's Burton was as flat as you could make
a potentially great character.
Susana, who had Scherazade's tales as bedtime
stories when young and thinks mom deserves
much praise for that
Demian Phillips
>In article <nsubusghi70qlk8eb...@4ax.com>, Demian Phillips <dem...@cmhcsys.com> writes:
>
>> The book reminded me of epics like the Mahabarata.
>> wish I could find a decent translation of both the Mahabarata and One
>> Thousand and One Nights. All the versions I ever see some "scholar"
>> has decided to "tell it his way".
>
Thank you.
I'm trying to track back down the audio version of the mahabarata.
William Clifford
>In article <370a3c93...@news.ionline.com>,
>William Clifford <wo...@hooya.com> wrote:
>>!!WARNING!! CONTAINS UNREMITTING SPOILERS!!
>
>And I'm not sure if this is the best or worst review I've read for
>a long time--there's rather little specific (surely there were
>some particular stupidities that could have been lovingly detailed?),
>but the combination of insult and enthusiasm and emotional accuracy
>made it tremendous fun to read--enough fun that when my newsreader
>brought back some 6-month old posts from the depths of time and I
>saw that there weren't any follow-ups, I thought it was worth bringing
>back to the newsgroup.
There were follow-ups. I saved some of them. I was taken to taken to
task for not appreciating Eddison's beautiful prose or his accuracy
with several archaic forms of English. I concede that there are
indeed different strokes for different folks. I'm not sufficiently
erudite to recognize archaic or obscure forms of English when I see
them being used by modern writers. It's one thing to know that the
source text is from Chaucer or Shakespeare. But I'll have to take Mark
Twain's word that his various Mississipi riverfront accents are as
true to sound as he claims.
Someone else reminded me of the various female intrigues that went on
in the Witchland court. I was too beholden to the patriarchy to
recall, much less mention, them at the time I was writing the review.
But, as I consider it now, I'm glad I did. Although I promised
"unremitting spoilers" some lurker, perhaps inspired by my enthusiasm
for the male action I mentioned, will discover the delightful
chapters about Sriva(?) all on her own.
I can't say how pleased I am with your ambivalence about the article.
I only wish I was so clever to have done it that way on purpose.
>One small caveat--I think of the book as having a slow beginning and
>speeding up toward the end.
I found the mountain climbing chapters freakin' dull. The final
chapters, as the Demon lords reclaimed their homeland were pretty
exciting. But I don't think they compare the Wrastling, the Summoning
of the Sending, or the poorly considered "rescue". Remember there's no
evidence that Gaslark *isn't* playing a fool. It's the opposite of
the old saying about mistaking malice for incompetance. Gaslark does
seem to survive the stupidities he eggs the Demon lords to carry out
even if they are the worse for it. Who says that Gro *really* betrayed
Goblinland anyway?
--
William Clifford
wo...@yahoo.com
"Well, I'm back," he said.