Series you finished despite yourself
Eric Jablow
wrote:
>I should have included the Belgariad on my original list, because I did
>read the whoooole thing (and I can't believe it), but it doesn't -quite-
>count. Someone sent them to me when I was living in China, and I would
>have been (and sometimes was) happy to read toilet paper wrappers if
>they were in English. So it wasn't quite reading them despite myself,
>more "if they were the only books in the world..."
No, they count. What a waste of paper. I call them the "Eternal
Polish Joke" series. After all, every character behaved according to
his or her national stereotype; the few exceptions turned out not to
have the ancestors they thought they had.
Respectfully, erja...@cais.com
Eric Jablow Herndon, VA, USA
Charles Frederick Goodin
James Gassaway <dtr...@linex.com> wrote:
>D. Gascoyne (gasc...@home.com) wrote:
>: While we're on the subject of series you gave up on, how about ones you
>: read even though you disliked them or felt embarrassed to be reading
>: them?
>: On my list:
>: Thomas Covenant: both series. I hated Thomas, especially in the first
>: series, but loved the world. There was a kind of reluctant fascination,
>: like picking a scab.
>:
>: Mercedes Lackey. I'm still reading them. I don't really know why,
>: unless it's like eating candy or popcorn; you just keep reaching for one
>: more handful.
>
>The "L. Ron Hubbard" ten book series (Invasion: Earth or something like
>that). It didn't even get any worse when he died halfway thru writing it.
>(And no, I don't care who actually finished the series, so don't tell me.)
>
><gagging & retching noises>
I read that one (getting them from the library) over about a 2 month
stretch...it wasn't _that_ bad. Any book where the main
character/antagonist models himself after Bugs Bunny can't be all bad.
--
chuk
Charles Frederick Goodin
Stefan Raets <sra...@prodigy.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 16 Oct 1999 03:18:59 GMT, "D. Gascoyne" <gasc...@home.com>
>wrote:
>
>>While we're on the subject of series you gave up on, how about ones you
>>read even though you disliked them or felt embarrassed to be reading
>>them?
>
>But I received the set as a present, and short of emigrating I
>couldn't get out of reading them.
I would have emigrated, myself.
Although, I've gotta confess to having read at least 15-16 of the Xanth
books...I liked the first 6 or 7, actually. Then they got real old, and I
don't actually even remember where I left off in the series.
>
>Still reading the Wheel of Time. I'm giving it one more book. If
>things don't pick up by then, out they go.
I think I'm gonna finish that one (assuming Jordan does). Not with bated
breath or anything, but I'll get around to them.
--
chuk
Otto
wrote:
Yes, it most certainly _can_...
Commodore Otto
John Schilling
>In article <7ubm2g$6ba$1...@agate-ether.berkeley.edu>,
>gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU says...
>> Piers Anthony's _Incarnations of Immortality_. The first one was actually
>> interesting and had some fun worldbuilding
>I call this "Piers Anthony Syndrome". You write an N-book series. The
>first one is reasonably well written, with some interesting twists and
>clever ideas (as you said: fun worldbuilding). Then, write N-1 more
>which are either grossly inferior, or more of the same (aka: how to
>stretch a 2,000 word story into 20,000 words :()
Now, now, give credit where credit is due. Piers can write an average of
three good books in any series; perhaps marginally inferior to the first
for lack of absolute novelty, but still worth reading.
Of course, in his case N>>>3, so the practical effect is about nil...
I took on the "Incarnations" series because it seemed self-limited to
N=5. Needless to say, he managed to squeeze a couple of extras in when
he probably shouldn't.
--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*schi...@spock.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *
Chris Taylor
but have been able to not read any more. Does that count, since
at the time the fourth came out, it didn't seem like there were
going to be any more?
I guess I exceeded my lifetime recommended dose of self hating
protagonists.
-- Chris Taylor
David Given
"D. Gascoyne" <gasc...@home.com> writes:
> While we're on the subject of series you gave up on, how about ones you
> read even though you disliked them or felt embarrassed to be reading
> them?
Gentry Lee, the Rama sequels. God, those were such a disappointment. I got
the first book in some excitement, read the first few pages, and thought,
"What the hell?" Then I read some more with this sinking feeling.
The first one actually had some good bits in it (notably, the subway
scenes). The second one didn't (I had already bought it at this point). I
got the third from the library and it really left a bad taste in my mouth.
Had Clarke actually *read* these? They were awful. Bad plot, bad
characters, bad science, bad religion, bad writing --- just plain bad.
For some reason I actually read one of Lee's other books; I forget which.
It was just as bad. I'm never going to read another Lee book if I can
possibly help it.
...
However, the worst *ever* book I have ever read (which was in a series,
but I only read one book, so it doesn't really fit here, but what the
hell) was _Steeleye: Waterspace_ by a name that shall live in infamy: Saul
Dunn. It's been branded into my memory.
I got this in a box of unsellable stock from a shop, which I bought for a
fiver (I actually got some rather good obscure Stableford in that). I read
it with a sort of horrified fascination. Think 50's pulp, and then turn
down the quality. It was... well, Dunn got just about everything wrong
that it was possible to get wrong, from the superman hero to the
green-skinned alien females who had never seen men before to a
water-filled galaxy apparently five miles across to the "and it was all a
dream" ending.
I've still got it. I haven't dared to reread it.
[...]
> Mercedes Lackey. I'm still reading them. I don't really know why,
> unless it's like eating candy or popcorn; you just keep reaching for one
> more handful.
I actually own some Lackey; but I won't buy her unless I've read her
first. Her books seem to vary wildly. I love the Gryphon trilogy, but the
later Vandemar books leave me completely cold.
--
+- David Given ---------------McQ-+
| Work: d...@tao-group.com | Does a Con Neumann machine run a Make
| Play: dgi...@iname.com | Machines Fast scam?
+- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+
Nelson Cunnington
>
> While we're on the subject of series you gave up on, how about ones you
> read even though you disliked them or felt embarrassed to be reading
> them?
> Thomas Covenant: both series. I hated Thomas, especially in the first
> series, but loved the world. There was a kind of reluctant fascination,
> like picking a scab.
>
> unless it's like eating candy or popcorn; you just keep reaching for one
> more handful.
>
I'm having a great problem finishing Brin's Uplift trilogy (or the
second half of his Uplift hexology). The writing is a bit too florid,
and I find the idea of entire species all deciding to live in close
orbits around white dwarves because they're attracted to steeply curved
space just bizarre. My disbelief just fell to the floor and shattered.
About the only good thing about the book I can bring myself to say is
"Nice cover." (UK edition).
--
Nelson Cunnington
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I don't know, Scotty. Maybe it's just the /idea/ of an inflatable
rubber starship that bothers me."
Vorlongrl
>While we're on the subject of series you gave up on, how about ones you
>read even though you disliked them or felt embarrassed to be reading
>them?
I usually just lurk because most discussions seem to go over my head but I
thought I'd pop in for this one.
-From the 4th Dune sequel on (way beyond me)
- Babylon 5 books (i know they're not real SF but they were in outer space)
- Dragonriders of Pern series (I actually did not finish these books. They just
became way ridiculous and boring)
I'm reading The Wheel of Time series now (just finished the 3rd book). I'm
getting sort of hesitant about buying the rest of the series written so far
tho...
KK2K
"I like bananas 'cause they don't got bones" Space Ghost
Scott J. Promish
news:08jfu7...@127.0.0.1...
> > Mercedes Lackey. I'm still reading them. I don't really know why,
> > unless it's like eating candy or popcorn; you just keep reaching for one
> > more handful.
>
> I actually own some Lackey; but I won't buy her unless I've read her
> first. Her books seem to vary wildly. I love the Gryphon trilogy, but the
> later Valdemar books leave me completely cold.
I've only read 'By the Sword', picked out because I wanted to try something
of hers and it was the only thing that more or less stood on its own. It
was alright, but it didn't make me want to delve any further.
Otto
<ch...@fcrao1.astroKILL.umassSPAM.edu> wrote:
>For me it's Feintuch's Seafort series -- I read the first four,
>but have been able to not read any more. Does that count, since
>at the time the fourth came out, it didn't seem like there were
>going to be any more?
JESUS, THEY WROTE MORE OF THEM?!
Commodore "NOOOOOOOOOOOO" Otto
Del Cotter
Nelson Cunnington (Organised? Me?) wrote:
>I'm having a great problem finishing Brin's Uplift trilogy (or the
>second half of his Uplift hexology). The writing is a bit too florid,
>and I find the idea of entire species all deciding to live in
Watch those spoilers please; I'm halfway through _Heaven's Reach_ at the
moment. No harm done, but be careful, eh?
--
Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk
"Choose the Dark Side... now why would I do a thing like that?"
--Obi-Wan Renton
David Feintuch
>
> For me it's Feintuch's Seafort series ...
> I guess I exceeded my lifetime recommended dose of self hating
> protagonists.
>
trusted made him accomplish. Think about it -- would you perfer a
protagonist who DIDN'T have remorse after doing what Seafort was forced
to do?
Not that I have any special insight in the matter...
-
David Feintuch web page: www.cris.com/~writeman
Author of:
PATRIARCH'S HOPE (New in April '99)
MIDSHIPMAN'S HOPE CHALLENGER'S HOPE
PRISONER'S HOPE FISHERMAN'S HOPE
VOICES OF HOPE
THE STILL
Adam Benedict Canning
David Feintuch wrote:
>
> Chris Taylor wrote:
> >
> > For me it's Feintuch's Seafort series ...
> > I guess I exceeded my lifetime recommended dose of self hating
> > protagonists.
> >
> Nick Seafort doesn't hate himself, he's distraught over what a God he
> trusted made him accomplish. Think about it -- would you perfer a
> protagonist who DIDN'T have remorse after doing what Seafort was forced
> to do?
So since you wrote the books, what your saying is that Seaforth hates
you, his universe's God.
Adam
Chris Taylor
>
> Chris Taylor wrote:
> >
> > For me it's Feintuch's Seafort series ...
> > I guess I exceeded my lifetime recommended dose of self hating
> > protagonists.
> >
> Nick Seafort doesn't hate himself, he's distraught over what a God he
> trusted made him accomplish. Think about it -- would you perfer a
> protagonist who DIDN'T have remorse after doing what Seafort was forced
> to do?
>
Well, remorse is one thing, but to see it so unrelentingly just
got depressing after a while. It would be nice to see him happy,
and to be fair, he is happy on occasion, but it seems to be just
so that it can be yanked out from under him a little bit later.
-- Chris Taylor
Meredith Dixon
<writ...@cris.com> wrote:
>Nick Seafort doesn't hate himself, he's distraught over what a God he
>trusted made him accomplish. Think about it -- would you perfer a
>protagonist who DIDN'T have remorse after doing what Seafort was forced
>to do?
I don't see that Seafort was forced to do what he did in
*Fisherman's Hope*, even given his worldview.
(No comment on his earlier problems, which I have tried hard to
forget, and it's starting to work.)
Seafort should at least have given the cadets, or most of the
cadets, a chance to volunteer for the suicide mission. If he
didn't want to risk not being able to get enough volunteers (and
he really didn't need to send those ships up fully crewed, as far
as I can see), then he could have called a percentage of the
cadets in, explained the situation, and asked for volunteers.
If he didn't get enough volunteers from them, then he could have
held that group in the room long enough to call together another
group, and so on. If he still didn't have the minimum number of
people he needed when he had explained to all but the last group,
he could have pulled the old, "Hey, extra-credit training
cruise!" stunt on *them*.
I'm not saying that would have been morally right, of course. I
think, if he honestly hadn't been able to get enough suicide
volunteers under the circumstances, maybe it would have been time
for the world to get blown up. But it would have been better
than what he did do.
--
Meredith Dixon <dix...@access.mountain.net>
Check out *Raven Days*, for victims and survivors of bullying.
And for those who want to help.
http://web.mountain.net/~dixonm/raven.html
Maia
>
> Chris Taylor wrote:
> >
> > For me it's Feintuch's Seafort series ...
> > I guess I exceeded my lifetime recommended dose of self hating
> > protagonists.
> >
> trusted made him accomplish. Think about it -- would you perfer a
> protagonist who DIDN'T have remorse after doing what Seafort was forced
> to do?
>
I must say that Nick is a really refreshing SF protagonist in punkto
originality. Yes, he is a misantrope, but that's what makes him
interesting. I can't agree (IMHO, of course) that he always has a good
reason to torment himself. I don't understand, for instance, why he
was so terribly agonizing over his decision to blow up the orbital
station (at Hope Nation?) and over the fact that he escaped execution
for this. I mean, there wasn't anything else anyone could do! OTOH, I
am surprised that he managed to recover so well after the events in
"Fisherman's Hope". Most people would have commited suicide.
But good reasons or bad reasons, the Seafort books tend to be quite
depressing and I wouldn't read the series in one helping, but rather
disperse it with something else.
Anyway, I would like to ask a few questions that bugged me since I
first began reading the series:
Can the discipline system of the wardroom, where the fists are the
ultimate arbiter of authority and the junior middies a fair game for
any humilations and abuse the first middy might come with, really
produce a highly qualified, flawlessly cooperating team necessary for
work in a highly technological environment? Wouldn't the inner
tensions (i.e. against the hated tyrant) distract the middies in
emergency situations?
Where do Pilots and Chief Engineers come from? IMHO they have to be
life-time professionals, just like the officers, so where are they
educated and why aren't they in the chain of Command? Also, shouldn't
they also begin Fusing quite young in order to escape Melanoma T?
What about the NCOs? They can't change them as often as sailors, and
still be staffed with professionals....
-
> David Feintuch web page: www.cris.com/~writeman
> Author of:
>
> PATRIARCH'S HOPE (New in April '99)
>
> MIDSHIPMAN'S HOPE CHALLENGER'S HOPE
> PRISONER'S HOPE FISHERMAN'S HOPE
> VOICES OF HOPE
>
> THE STILL
And speaking of the "Still", when can we await a sequel? Liked the
first book (of the trilogy?) a lot.
Mark Langsdorf
Meredith Dixon wrote in message ...
>>trusted made him accomplish. Think about it -- would you perfer a
>>protagonist who DIDN'T have remorse after doing what Seafort was forced
>>to do?
>
>*Fisherman's Hope*, even given his worldview.
> (No comment on his earlier problems, which I have tried hard to
>forget, and it's starting to work.)
>
>Seafort should at least have given the cadets, or most of the
>cadets, a chance to volunteer for the suicide mission. If he
>didn't want to risk not being able to get enough volunteers (and
>he really didn't need to send those ships up fully crewed, as far
>as I can see), then he could have called a percentage of the
>cadets in, explained the situation, and asked for volunteers.
No, by his worldview, he can't. Volunteering for a suicide
mission is suicide, and that damns the soul to hell. If he asks
for volunteers, he's sending other people's souls to hell. If
he tricks them, he's a murderer, and he's going to hell, but at
least they die clean.
Seafort is warped and twisted, but by his worldview, the
binds he gets himself in are legitimate.
-Mark Langsdorf
Meredith Dixon
> No, by his worldview, he can't. Volunteering for a suicide
>mission is suicide, and that damns the soul to hell. If he asks
>for volunteers, he's sending other people's souls to hell. If
>he tricks them, he's a murderer, and he's going to hell, but at
>least they die clean.
Damn, I hadn't thought about that, but you're quite right. I
stand corrected. Thanks!
Michael Brazier
>
> Meredith Dixon wrote in message ...
> >On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:30:33 -0400, David Feintuch
> ><writ...@cris.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Nick Seafort doesn't hate himself, he's distraught over what a God he
> >>trusted made him accomplish. Think about it -- would you perfer a
> >>protagonist who DIDN'T have remorse after doing what Seafort was forced
> >>to do?
> >
> >I don't see that Seafort was forced to do what he did in
> >*Fisherman's Hope*, even given his worldview.
> > (No comment on his earlier problems, which I have tried hard to
> >forget, and it's starting to work.)
> >
> >Seafort should at least have given the cadets, or most of the
> >cadets, a chance to volunteer for the suicide mission. If he
> >didn't want to risk not being able to get enough volunteers (and
> >he really didn't need to send those ships up fully crewed, as far
> >as I can see), then he could have called a percentage of the
> >cadets in, explained the situation, and asked for volunteers.
>
> mission is suicide, and that damns the soul to hell. If he asks
> for volunteers, he's sending other people's souls to hell. If
> he tricks them, he's a murderer, and he's going to hell, but at
> least they die clean.
Seafort is a quasi-Calvinist Christian; the concept of "martyrdom"
should not be unknown to him.
--
Michael Brazier But what are all these vanities to me
Whose thoughts are full of indices and surds?
X^2 + 7X + 53 = 11/3
-- Lewis Carroll
Mark Langsdorf
Michael Brazier wrote in message <380FAD9F...@argusinc.com>...
I agree, it should not be, but nevertheless it does seem to be.
I'm not sure why.
Note that in a later book, when he his again forced to use cadets
for something beyond their capabilities (but not guaranteed suicide)
he is willing and eager to ask for volunteers.
-Mark Langsdorf
Jay Shorten
John Schilling wrote:
> I took on the "Incarnations" series because it seemed self-limited to
> N=5. Needless to say, he managed to squeeze a couple of extras in when
> he probably shouldn't.
Actually 6 and 7 improved the series as 4 was a little weak and 5 was wretched.
Jay Shorten
Theresa Ann Wymer
: John Schilling wrote:
Sure it's not the other way around? I've read 4 exactly twice, once when
I first bought it and again when I decided to go through the whole series.
I thought _Red Sword_ couldn't possibly be as bad as I remembered. I was
wrong. It was worse. OTOH, 5 had some nice character interaction and
apocalyptic sequences, even though I've never been a fan of the
protagonist. Boring, dimwitted woman. 6, I enjoyed, and 7 I never
bothered to read.
Overall verdict? Read the first book and stop. I was so disgusted by the
way the series turned out, I wrote my own fan version just to get the bad
taste out of my mouth. But I still think _On a Pale Horse_ is one of the
best novels Anthony ever wrote.
--
Theresa Ann Wymer twy...@efn.org
Dennis
>way the series turned out, I wrote my own fan version just to get the bad
>taste out of my mouth. But I still think _On a Pale Horse_ is one of the
>best novels Anthony ever wrote.
I'll say..read the first two and stop..Bearing and Hourglass was good also.
But i agree Pale was fantastic.
--
--
Endy
Happiness is reading a good scifi book while listening to XTC :)
~~dancing us from the darkest night is the rhythm of love powered by the
beating of hearts~~ XTC
Remove the .invalid in my email address to email me
Lmundstock
>read even though you disliked them or felt embarrassed to be reading
>them?
Xanth. It took a while, but I realized that either I stop reading it or wait
until Piers Anthony dies. Being a nice, humane, person who would never wish
harm on anyone, I stopped reading it.
"I don't believe in coincidences. They're like leprechauns and unicorns, they
died out a long time ago."
Lmundstock
>books...I liked the first 6 or 7, actually. Then they got real old, and I
>don't actually even remember where I left off in the series.
Woah, I had the same thing happen to me. The only difference is I got to ~30
books. I think the last one I read was Yon Ill Wind. Has anyone that read Xanth
ever remembered details about where they left off?
nyxxxx
lmund...@aol.comical.isp (Lmundstock) wrote:
> Woah, I had the same thing happen to me. The only difference is I
> got to ~30
> books. I think the last one I read was Yon Ill Wind. Has anyone
> that read Xanth
> ever remembered details about where they left off?
I stopped on "The Color of Her Panties". Really horrible title. Sounds
like the title of a letter to Penthouse.
The series I finished in spite of myself was Anthony's Incarnatios
series. I was so glad when that was over.
Anthony was better in his Chthon and Pthor days. It seems like that at
some point he just gave up and started rewriting the same story.
Nyx
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Dennis Higbee
: >Although, I've gotta confess to having read at least 15-16 of the Xanth
: >books...I liked the first 6 or 7, actually. Then they got real old, and I
: >don't actually even remember where I left off in the series.
: Woah, I had the same thing happen to me. The only difference is I got to ~30
: books. I think the last one I read was Yon Ill Wind. Has anyone that read Xanth
: ever remembered details about where they left off?
I remember "Yon Ill Wind" vividly. I got to the bit where they
had to go look for 'plot threads,' decided to finish the book
because I'd been especially rotten that week, and swore off Xanth
forever.
Then I thought about it and realized I should ahve quit years
earlier when Anthony had one character on the quest to become
a Main Character.
I remind myself of this any time I get tempted to pick up an
Anthony book.
--
Dennis Higbee | "Ain't it funny that they all fire the
bn...@li.net | pistol at the wrong end of the race."
http://www.li.net/~bnook/ | -P. Townshend
Russell Wallace
>
> >Although, I've gotta confess to having read at least 15-16 of the Xanth
> >books...I liked the first 6 or 7, actually. Then they got real old, and I
> >don't actually even remember where I left off in the series.
>
> Woah, I had the same thing happen to me. The only difference is I got to ~30
> books. I think the last one I read was Yon Ill Wind. Has anyone that read Xanth
> ever remembered details about where they left off?
Sort of. I forget what was the last one I read, though I remember being
disgusted with it. I do remember the one after that, the first one I
didn't bother even picking up to read the blurb; the title was 'The
Color of her Panties'.
The pity is, the first few in the series were really good.
--
"To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem."
Russell Wallace
mano...@iol.ie
Justin Bacon
(Dennis Higbee) writes:
>: Woah, I had the same thing happen to me. The only difference is I got to
>~30
>: books. I think the last one I read was Yon Ill Wind. Has anyone that read
>Xanth
>: ever remembered details about where they left off?
>
>I remember "Yon Ill Wind" vividly. I got to the bit where they
>had to go look for 'plot threads,' decided to finish the book
>because I'd been especially rotten that week, and swore off Xanth
>forever.
Damn, I was really hoping that "Yon Ill Wind" was a joke title.
Anthony started scraping bottom around Book 10 (and, really, if I had to advise
a cut-off point it would be Book 8 -- Crewel Lye). I didn't actually give up
until 15 or 16 (partially because I'm a glutton for punishment, but also
because my brother and father were also reading the books so we were all
carried along somewhat by the fact we were discussing them as we read). What
finally did me in was the fact that the exact same plot, with different puns
filling in the blanks, had been reused five or six times in a row with the smae
characters moving forward exactly one generation with each book (i.e., you'd
end up with the son or daughter of the hero of the last book, and they'd be
*exactly* the same character).
Justin Bacon
tr...@prairie.lakes.com