request for resources (YARID?) -- Lunarians
William December Starr
> For a book about ideas of space I'm looking for illustrations of
> lunarians as they were imagined over time. As opposed to
> martians, I find them difficult to find.
>
> Can you recommend some publication or internet resource that could
> be useful? Or do you know of a collector of science fiction
> magazines who might be able to help?
>
> Many thanks for your time and trouble on my behalf!
-- wds
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
A meta answer would be to do an image search for the covers of books
dealing with such. ERB's "Moon Maid" series would be the most
obvious here I guess. Also the "Matthew Mooney" kids books.
After that, go for famous stories like Leinster's "Keyhole" and see if
they made the cover of the magazine issue they appeared in.
Then, of course, there's the most famous image:
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/underwire/2009/08/atriptothemoon1902.jpg
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Butch Malahide
> Email sent to MITSFS and redirected to our yasid mailing list:
>
> > For a book about ideas of space I'm looking for illustrations of
> > lunarians as they were imagined over time. As opposed to
> > martians, I find them difficult to find.
Hmm. I guess the first step would be to compile a list of stories
featuring Lunarians (aka Selenites), and then we have to check the
original magazines for illustrations. From the top of my head:
"Keyhole" by Murray Leinster, Thrilling Wonder Stories, December,
1951. The ISFDB entry <http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?
TWONSDEC1951> says that there is an illustration; don't know if it
shows the moon critter or just a keyhole.
"Out Around Rigel" by Robert H. Wilson, Astounding Stories, December,
1931. Probably illustrated (the ISFDB doesn't say), the illo probably
depicts the Lunarians, but they are likely to be wearing spacesuits.
(Story about an interstellar expedition by members of an ancient Lunar
civilization, back when the moon had an atmosphere.)
"The Big Night" by Hudson Hastings (Henry Kuttner), Thrilling Wonder
Stories, June, 1947. A Selenite crewman is a supporting character;
however, the Selenite does *not* appear in the illo.
"Mysta of the Moon", Planet Comics, 1945-1949. Probably not an
indigenous Lunarian; very humanoid.
Cryptoengineer
Dont' forget Dick Tracy!
pt
Mike Schilling
>
> A meta answer would be to do an image search for the covers of books
> dealing with such. ERB's "Moon Maid" series would be the most
> obvious here I guess. Also the "Matthew Mooney" kids books.
ITYM the Matthew Looney series, written by Jerome Beatty Jr., and described
at http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Jerome%20Beatty,%20Jr. (There's
apparently a successor series about his sister Maria. I've never seen
those.) Since they're quite funny in a jokey kind of way, I spent years
conflating Beatty with Jerome Bixby.
Jack Bohn
>Email sent to MITSFS and redirected to our yasid mailing list:
>
>> For a book about ideas of space I'm looking for illustrations of
>> lunarians as they were imagined over time. As opposed to
>> martians, I find them difficult to find.
It might require the use of another word. "Selenites" brought up
a list of images on Google.
What are the famous illustrations of lunarians?
The Great Moon Hoax of 1835
First Men in the Moon by H.G. Wells (was this, and its conflation
with Verne's story for the early M�li�s film responsible for a
preponderance of Selenites insects? At least they seem so to
me.)
Actually, I'm blanking on Moon Men. I think the ones in Poe's
story of Hans Pfall were described as non-humanoid...
--
-Jack
lal_truckee
I was told at the golden age that all the Lunarians were Nazis.
Robert Carnegie
in Classical or biblical costume. Someone mentioned H. G. Wells
already, and there's been movie and comics adaptations of that moon
visit; in Dick Tracy (!) "The Moon race looked like Caucasian humans
except for having abnormally large eyes and giraffe-like horns on
their foreheads"; and I think Captain W. E. Johns in _Kings of Space_
had a pretty late visit to a life-bearing moon, as science fiction
goes, but only found dinosaur-like creatures ruling the lunar jungles;
he had better luck by the canals of Mars... look, we /know/ no one's
up there.
I think Larry Niven makes human colonists on the Moon tall, thin,
pale, anaemic?...
Butch Malahide
>
> > For a book about ideas of space I'm looking for illustrations of
> > lunarians as they were imagined over time.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29848/29848-h/29848-h.htm#The_Moon_Master
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29768/29768-h/29768-h.htm#Earth_the_Marauder
tkma...@yahoo.co.uk
For some additional fun, "moondog" in this story by Stanley Mullen is
actually a native of Saturnian moons rather than of our moon!
<http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31327/31327-h/31327-h.htm>
Cover as well as an internal story image illustrates the creature.
So "moon" in name may not be enough, though Selenites etc should be.
--
<http://variety-sf.blogspot.com/>
<http://twitter.com/varietysf>
Butch Malahide
>
> For some additional fun, "moondog" in this story by Stanley Mullen is
> actually a native of Saturnian moons rather than of our moon!
> <http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31327/31327-h/31327-h.htm>
> Cover as well as an internal story image illustrates the creature.
>
> So "moon" in name may not be enough, though Selenites etc should be.
Right. In Golden Age stf you find inhabitants of every named moon in
the Solar System: Europans from Europa, Callistans/Callistonians from
Callisto, Rheans from Rhea, Titanians from Titan *or* Titania (a
confusing situation, the guy who named Titania should have thought
what he was doing), Umbrielites from Umbriel, usw. And then there are
the fictional moons; e.g., Charles W. Diffin's "Dark Moon", the cover-
copper in the May 1931 Astounding Stories
<http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30532/30532-h/30532-h.htm>
is set not on Luna but on another Earthian moon, unknown to Earth-
based astronomers because it's always eclipsed by Luna.
Robert Carnegie
> On Feb 21, 4:09 am, tkmail...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> >
> > For some additional fun, "moondog" in this story by Stanley Mullen is
> > actually a native of Saturnian moons rather than of our moon!
> > <http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31327/31327-h/31327-h.htm>
> > Cover as well as an internal story image illustrates the creature.
> >
> > So "moon" in name may not be enough, though Selenites etc should be.
"Lunies" as well, maybe.
> Right. In Golden Age stf you find inhabitants of every named moon in
> the Solar System: Europans from Europa, Callistans/Callistonians from
> Callisto, Rheans from Rhea, Titanians from Titan *or* Titania (a
> confusing situation, the guy who named Titania should have thought
> what he was doing), Umbrielites from Umbriel, usw. And then there are
> the fictional moons; e.g., Charles W. Diffin's "Dark Moon", the cover-
> copper in the May 1931 Astounding Stories
> <http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30532/30532-h/30532-h.htm>
> is set not on Luna but on another Earthian moon, unknown to Earth-
> based astronomers because it's always eclipsed by Luna.
Um, surely - ?
Jack Bohn
>visit; in Dick Tracy (!) "The Moon race looked like Caucasian humans
>except for having abnormally large eyes and giraffe-like horns on
>their foreheads";
Ah! By the time I was reading the Dick Tracy comics, no
explanation of her was being given, and I don't think, she was
ever drawn with her head more than a 1/4 turned, so I couldn't
tell if she had antennae, or if her bangs were just cut strange.
Earlier, in 1951, Flash Gordon returned to Earth from Mongo, in
order to go to the Moon, Mars, etc., in the new style of Tom
Corbett and Space Patrol. The Moon, at least during his first
adventure there, is occupied by Beetle-Men. They appear on the
back cover of the first volume of Dark Horse' reprint series,
here's some book-selling site with a picture of it:
http://tinyurl.com/ya3a9os
(http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/public/default.asp?t=1&m=1&c=34&s=267&ai=43228&arch=y&ssd=5/10/2003%2012:01:00%20PM)
Rocky & Bullwinkle met moon men:
http://bullwinkle.toonzone.net/characters-bullwinkle.htm
(I hadn't realized the show was as old as 1959!)
"The Wings of Night" by Lester del Rey (1942) was about a man in
the Moon.
>I think Larry Niven makes human colonists on the Moon tall, thin,
>pale, anaemic?...
Tall, at least, but not as tall as his Belters. Hmm... I don't
know that he ever wrote of a fat one; that was Charles Sheffield
who had a character travel to planets and moons of successively
weaker gravities in an attempt to keep his college weight...
I can't find Niven's "Wrong Way Street." Wasn't that the one
where someone found a strange device on the Moon, and later, the
owners? I can't remember if they were native to Luna, or not.
--
-Jack
Butch Malahide
> Butch Malahide wrote:
> >
> > Right. In Golden Age stf you find inhabitants of every named moon in
> > the Solar System: Europans from Europa, Callistans/Callistonians from
> > Callisto, Rheans from Rhea, Titanians from Titan *or* Titania (a
> > confusing situation, the guy who named Titania should have thought
> > what he was doing), Umbrielites from Umbriel, usw. And then there are
> > the fictional moons; e.g., Charles W. Diffin's "Dark Moon", the cover-
> > copper in the May 1931 Astounding Stories
> > <http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30532/30532-h/30532-h.htm>
> > is set not on Luna but on another Earthian moon, unknown to Earth-
> > based astronomers because it's always eclipsed by Luna.
>
> Um, surely - ?
Oops, my bad, I mixed up Diffin's "Dark Moon" with some other story of
a fictional Earthian moon. In *this* story, the "dark moon" orbits
*closer* to Earth than Luna.
And now I've gotta find that *other* story, so it doesn't turn into a
YASID. . . . OK, here it is: "The World Behind the Moon", by Paul
Ernst, in the April 1931 Astounding Stories.
[BEGIN QUOTE]
Astronomical calculations had soon described the mysterious hidden
satellite. It was almost a twin to the moon; a very little smaller,
and less than eighty thousand miles away. Its rotation was nearly
similar, which made its days not quite sixteen of our earthly days. It
was of approximately the weight, per cubic mile, of Earth. And there
it whirled, directly in a line with the earth and the moon, moving as
the moon moved so that it was ever out of sight beyond it, as a dime
would be out of sight if placed in a direct line behind a penny.
Zeud, the new satellite, the world beyond the moon!
[END QUOTE]
Needless to say, Zeud in inhabited.
David Johnston
The Big Time had a Lunarian from something like a billion years ago.
Kind of a fuzzy squid wasn't it?
Dorothy J Heydt
Right, and talked via voder.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
David DeLaney
>Butch Malahide wrote:
>> Right. In Golden Age stf you find inhabitants of every named moon in
>> the Solar System: Europans from Europa, Callistans/Callistonians from
>> Callisto, Rheans from Rhea, Titanians from Titan *or* Titania (a
>> confusing situation, the guy who named Titania should have thought
>> what he was doing), Umbrielites from Umbriel, usw. And then there are
>> the fictional moons; e.g., Charles W. Diffin's "Dark Moon", the cover-
>> copper in the May 1931 Astounding Stories
>> <http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30532/30532-h/30532-h.htm>
>> is set not on Luna but on another Earthian moon, unknown to Earth-
>> based astronomers because it's always eclipsed by Luna.
>
>Um, surely - ?
And let us not forget Basidiumites. ...I can't recall any Charonians as such
(the Ring of Charon was something else again).
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>I can't find Niven's "Wrong Way Street." Wasn't that the one
>where someone found a strange device on the Moon, and later, the
>owners? I can't remember if they were native to Luna, or not.
Yes - two devices, actually, figured in the story. A time machine, and a
stylus with a disintegrator-ball on the tip... I don't think we ever found
out whether they were native to Luna - doesn't the story end right when he
realizes the Moonbase isn't empty and deserted any more?
Andrew Plotkin
> Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
> >I can't find Niven's "Wrong Way Street." Wasn't that the one
> >where someone found a strange device on the Moon, and later, the
> >owners? I can't remember if they were native to Luna, or not.
>
> Yes - two devices, actually, figured in the story. A time machine, and a
> stylus with a disintegrator-ball on the tip... I don't think we ever found
> out whether they were native to Luna - doesn't the story end right when he
> realizes the Moonbase isn't empty and deserted any more?
Even Niven doesn't generally mash up his biology so far as to have
native Lunarians living in a human-shirtsleeve environment. The
"Moonbase" was pretty clearly an abandoned starship. The protagonist
messes with the time machine, and winds up in a non-abandoned starship.
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
Stewart Robert Hinsley
<f8a5bbe1-68b0-4ecc...@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> writes
An object at the L-2 Lagrange Point would always be eclipsed. However
the L-2 point is unstable with respect to perturbations.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
Michael Stemper
>On Feb 20, 4:01=A0am, wdst...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
>> Email sent to MITSFS and redirected to our yasid mailing list:
>> > For a book about ideas of space I'm looking for illustrations of
>> > lunarians as they were imagined over time. =A0As opposed to
>> > martians, I find them difficult to find.
>
>Hmm. I guess the first step would be to compile a list of stories
>featuring Lunarians (aka Selenites), and then we have to check the
>original magazines for illustrations. From the top of my head:
Do they need to be from *written* SF? I could provide some screencaps
of Cloyd and Gidney. Vintage 1959.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
2 + 2 = 5, for sufficiently large values of 2
Michael Stemper
>> Butch Malahide wrote:
>> > Right. In Golden Age stf you find inhabitants of every named moon in
>> > the Solar System: Europans from Europa, Callistans/Callistonians from
>> > Callisto, Rheans from Rhea, Titanians from Titan *or* Titania (a
>> > confusing situation, the guy who named Titania should have thought
Deimos, Phobos, Triton?
>[BEGIN QUOTE]
>Astronomical calculations had soon described the mysterious hidden
>satellite. It was almost a twin to the moon; a very little smaller,
>and less than eighty thousand miles away. Its rotation was nearly
>similar, which made its days not quite sixteen of our earthly days. It
>was of approximately the weight, per cubic mile, of Earth. And there
>it whirled, directly in a line with the earth and the moon, moving as
>the moon moved so that it was ever out of sight beyond it, as a dime
>would be out of sight if placed in a direct line behind a penny.
That's a pretty good trick. It reminds me of the problem that I had
with Basidium, even upon my first reading. Always behind the black
hole you say? Concentric orbits? Even in fifth grade I had a problem
with that one.
Mike Schilling
"Michael Stemper" <mste...@walkabout.empros.com> wrote in message
news:hluikl$r2k$3...@news.eternal-september.org...
:
>
> Do they need to be from *written* SF? I could provide some screencaps
> of Cloyd and Gidney. Vintage 1959.
"Scrooch him, Gidney!"
Robert Carnegie
It looks like a typo for Zeus, but you did it twice.
Herschel, was it, wanted to call Uranus "George's Star"...
Robert Carnegie
> In article <11915c6f-1a0e-4956...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> writes:
> >> Butch Malahide wrote:
>
> >> > Right. In Golden Age stf you find inhabitants of every named moon in
> >> > the Solar System: Europans from Europa, Callistans/Callistonians from
> >> > Callisto, Rheans from Rhea, Titanians from Titan *or* Titania (a
> >> > confusing situation, the guy who named Titania should have thought
>
> Deimos, Phobos, Triton?
Deimotics, Phobics, - you got me stumped on the last one.
(Google)
A shower-bath business name...
Ah, "Triton is a mythological Greek god, the messenger of the sea."
I know! they're Wavers!
Because what sort of message do you get from the sea, but a wave...
Gene Wirchenko
<fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>Right. In Golden Age stf you find inhabitants of every named moon in
>the Solar System: Europans from Europa, Callistans/Callistonians from
>Callisto, Rheans from Rhea, Titanians from Titan *or* Titania (a
>confusing situation, the guy who named Titania should have thought
>what he was doing), Umbrielites from Umbriel, usw. And then there are
That just adds to the realism: consider Niger (Nigerien) and
Nigeria (Nigerian).
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Butch Malahide
> > >> Butch Malahide wrote:
>
> > >> > Right. In Golden Age stf you find inhabitants of every named moon in
> > >> > the Solar System: Europans from Europa, Callistans/Callistonians from
> > >> > Callisto, Rheans from Rhea, Titanians from Titan *or* Titania (a
> > >> > confusing situation, the guy who named Titania should have thought
>
> > Deimos, Phobos, Triton?
>
> Deimotics, Phobics, - you got me stumped on the last one.
"Deimian" is used as an adjective on p. 12 of "Eternal Zemmd Must
Die!", by Henry Hasse, in the Spring 1949 issue of Planet Stories:
"Doesn't that aria occur somewhere in the Deimian Cabal?"
Apparently there are "Phobians" in "Moon of Danger", by Albert dePina,
in the Summer 1947 Planet Stories. I don't know if they are called
"Phobians" in the story; that's what reader R. R. Anger calls them in
his letter in the Fall 1947 issue: "The scenes in the spore-fields
with Ric Martin slaughtering hundreds of Phobians . . ."
I guess the inhabitants of Triton would be Tritonians, but I'm stumped
for a citation. The ISFDB lists two titles using "Tritonian" as an
adjective: _The Tritonian Ring_ by L. Sprague de Camp, and "Tritonian
Terror" by June Lurie in the November 1950 issue of Fantastic
Adventures.
Mike Schilling
"Robert Carnegie" <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:bfa9638e-48bb-4cb3...@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
> Michael Stemper wrote:
>> In article
>> <11915c6f-1a0e-4956...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
>> Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> writes:
>> >> Butch Malahide wrote:
>>
>> >> > Right. In Golden Age stf you find inhabitants of every named moon in
>> >> > the Solar System: Europans from Europa, Callistans/Callistonians
>> >> > from
>> >> > Callisto, Rheans from Rhea, Titanians from Titan *or* Titania (a
>> >> > confusing situation, the guy who named Titania should have thought
>>
>> Deimos, Phobos, Triton?
>
> Deimotics, Phobics, - you got me stumped on the last one.
>
"Trits".
Butch Malahide
Zeud it is. Here's the address of the Project Gutenberg etext:
<http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/30452>
David DeLaney
>Michael Stemper wrote:
>> Deimos, Phobos, Triton?
>
>Deimotics, Phobics, - you got me stumped on the last one.
>
>(Google)
>
>A shower-bath business name...
>
>Ah, "Triton is a mythological Greek god, the messenger of the sea."
>
>I know! they're Wavers!
>
>Because what sort of message do you get from the sea, but a wave...
Tritonians, I would think. ... Yep, de Camp agrees.
Butch Malahide
> Email sent to MITSFS and redirected to our yasid mailing list:
>
> > For a book about ideas of space I'm looking for illustrations of
> > martians, I find them difficult to find.
"Terrors of Arelli" by Aladra Septama (pseudonym of Judson W. Reeves
according to ISFDB) in the Fall 1930 Amazing Stories Quarterly.
"Arelli" is the natives' name for the Moon. Actually, the Arellians
are perfect humanoids, living underground and breathing air. Their
ancestors came from a prehistoric Earthly civilization, probably
Atlantis--it's been a while since I read the story. So, they are not
real Lunarians, and it might be hard to tell them from the humans in
the illos. However, the "terrors" of Arelli are real Lunarians, sharp-
toothed tentacled monsters from deeper in the Moon. They are depicted
in the illos by Wesso on pp. 531, 540, and 549. I guess "Wesso" is the
stf artist Hans Waldemar Wessolowski, although ISFDB has a page on
"Wesso" with no cross-reference.
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Wesso>
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?H.%20W.%20Wesso>
Butch Malahide
> On Feb 20, 4:01 am, wdst...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
>
> > Email sent to MITSFS and redirected to our yasid mailing list:
>
> > > For a book about ideas of space I'm looking for illustrations of
> > > lunarians as they were imagined over time. As opposed to
> > > martians, I find them difficult to find.
>
> "Terrors of Arelli" by Aladra Septama (pseudonym of Judson W. Reeves
> according to ISFDB) in the Fall 1930 Amazing Stories Quarterly.
> "Arelli" is the natives' name for the Moon. Actually, the Arellians
> are perfect humanoids, living underground and breathing air. Their
> ancestors came from a prehistoric Earthly civilization, probably
> Atlantis--it's been a while since I read the story. So, they are not
> real Lunarians, and it might be hard to tell them from the humans in
For "humans" read "Earthlings"; the Arellians are human too. Sorry
about that.
Ahasuerus
> On Feb 20, 4:01 am, wdst...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
>
> > Email sent to MITSFS and redirected to our yasid mailing list:
>
> > > For a book about ideas of space I'm looking for illustrations of
> > > lunarians as they were imagined over time. As opposed to
> > > martians, I find them difficult to find.
>
> "Terrors of Arelli" by Aladra Septama (pseudonym of Judson W. Reeves
> "Arelli" is the natives' name for the Moon. Actually, the Arellians
> are perfect humanoids, living underground and breathing air. Their
> ancestors came from a prehistoric Earthly civilization, probably
> Atlantis--it's been a while since I read the story. So, they are not
> real Lunarians, and it might be hard to tell them from the humans in
> the illos. However, the "terrors" of Arelli are real Lunarians, sharp-
> toothed tentacled monsters from deeper in the Moon. They are depicted
> in the illos by Wesso on pp. 531, 540, and 549. I guess "Wesso" is the
> "Wesso" with no cross-reference.
> <http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Wesso>
> <http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?H.%20W.%20Wesso>
That's right. We haven't been cross-referencing artists as much as we
could have because it would be very time consuming to do them one
record at a time. We are waiting for the ability to create "variant
titles" en masse to be implemented.
Christopher Henrich
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
Well, if it was at the L2 Lagrange point... <checks Wikipedia /> ...
no, that is about 38,200 mi beyond the moon, not 80,000. And even if it
was at the L2 point, it would be much too massive to pass unnoticed.
Well, maybe it *is* at the L2 point because we have mismeasured the mass
of the moon (perhaps thanks to Basidium)... But the L2 point is
unstable... ah the Hell with it...
--
Christopher J. Henrich
chen...@monmouth.com
http://www.mathinteract.com
"A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver." -- Boon