Midshipman's Hope, David Feintuch
Ted Fazioli
Anyone read the Midshipman's Hope Series by David Feintuch? I must say that
this series was the most enjoyable, thoroughly entertaining, and well written
set of novels that I have ever read. The whole series included a wonderful
creation of characters, relationships, technologies, and drama that really were
a thrill to experience. The whole thing with the Navy discipline, the
Trannies, the computer personalities - imaginative ideas that really seemed to
work.
I haven't read any reviews of this series, so I guess it didn't go over so
well, but I would heartily recommend it. If you're out there, Mr. Feintuch,
thanks for the stories, including the follow-up, Voices of Hope. They all were
great fun.
Ted
Tharsia
I read them all and though I found some things annoying, still, I read them
all. Very interesting internal perspective of a hero slowly coming unglued -
reglued while dealing with the baddies of all sorts. Well potrayed scenario of
the Untergang des Abendlands, the Decline of the West, with sufficient irony to
keep it from being too black.
However, I found his next book, THE STILL, a quasi- Renaissance fantasy, to be
deeply disappointing. I couldn't stand any of the characters, and the story was
very obvious. However, still a better writer in terms of artistic skill than
many.
The Seafort novels have been reprinted (different cover, slightly) so they must
be doing fairly well. It may be that the reviewers aren't doing them, but the
credits from Hugo authors like CJ Cherryh in the front can't be hurting sales
any.
>Subject: Midshipman's Hope, David Feintuch
>From: faz...@an.hp.com (Ted Fazioli)
>Date: Tue, Apr 7, 1998 21:37 EDT
>Message-id: <6gekd7$bo3$2...@ocean.cup.hp.com>
Tha...@aol.com
"Whoever does not study history is doomed to repeat it."
D E Siegel
faz...@an.hp.com (Ted Fazioli):
>Anyone read the Midshipman's Hope Series by David Feintuch? I must say that
>this series was the most enjoyable, thoroughly entertaining, and well written
>set of novels that I have ever read. The whole series included a wonderful
>creation of characters, relationships, technologies, and
>drama that really were
>a thrill to experience. The whole thing with the Navy discipline, the
>Trannies, the computer personalities - imaginative ideas that really seemed
>to
>work.
>
>
I disagree. I found the series interesting, and I read the first four volumes.
I don't plan to read any sequels. I found the protagonist (Nick Seafort)
unlikeavle and insufficiently justified. I found the society implausible, and
the occasional political rants (particularly in the first and third books)
distracting -- like Heinlein but with far less skill.
-David E. Siegel
Sie...@ACM.ORG
John Scalzi
On 8 Apr 1998 01:37:43 GMT, faz...@an.hp.com (Ted Fazioli) wrote:
>Anyone read the Midshipman's Hope Series by David Feintuch? I must say that
>this series was the most enjoyable, thoroughly entertaining, and well written
>set of novels that I have ever read.
I didn't find that to be the case. I thought the writing was stilted
(the dialogue in particular), and it didn't hold me past the first
couple of chapters.
Proving once again that the diversity of readers is at least as great
as the diversity of writers. Glad he worked for you, at least.
------------
John Scalzi, Freelance Troublemaker
http://www.scalzi.com
Meredith Dixon
On 8 Apr 1998 01:37:43 GMT, faz...@an.hp.com (Ted Fazioli) wrote:
>Anyone read the Midshipman's Hope Series by David Feintuch? I must say that
>this series was the most enjoyable, thoroughly entertaining, and well written
>set of novels that I have ever read.
Personally, I read the first four books, disliked each book more than
the last, and finally decided that I would a> never waste my money on
any more of Feintuch's works, and b> give the four books I had
purchased away, preferably to a library I didn't like very much.
*Midshipman's Hope* wasn't very good, IMO, but it wasn't awful.
It was decent enough pulp. The writing plodded, but, after all,
I thought, it was a first novel. The "How to Succeed in Business
Without Really Trying" plot was mildly amusing, and I rather liked the
C.S. Forrester-in-space approach.
The next book, though, was considerably worse. The plot was
as implausible as the *Midshipman's Hope* plot, without the saving
grace of being entertaining. It seemed to be the product of an unholy
union between *Ship of the Line* and an introductory abnormal-psych
text. The slum youngsters were incongruous on a starship, but
otherwise were stereotypical, boring post-apocalyptic ruins-dwellers.
And things got even worse in *Prisoner's Hope*, difficult as that was
to imagine before I started it. The characters continued to be
wooden and stereotypical. The plot kept on being both implausible
and melodramatic. The one moderately likable character in the series
developed a form of amnesia so radical that his personality
changed completely. I almost stopped reading at that point, but I
had a certain morbid curiosity to see how it would all end.
Then there was *Fisherman's Hope*. The flashbacks to protagonist
Seafort's training were moderately interesting, though, jarringly,
Feintuch kept having the characters in the flashback use the word
"zarky" even though he had established in the first book, which takes
place *after* Seafort's training, that "zarky" was brand-new slang and
not very familiar to Seafort. The non-flashbacks weren't as good, and
the plot limped to its eventual conclusion, dozens of pages too late,
with Seafort reproaching himself for all the wrong reasons.
For all I know, Seafort may get his twisted ethics straightened out in
*Voices of Hope*, but I'm not going to bother to buy the book to find
out whether or not he does.
Meredith Dixon
dix...@access.mountain.net
Troy Terry
John Scalzi wrote:
>
> On 8 Apr 1998 01:37:43 GMT, faz...@an.hp.com (Ted Fazioli) wrote:
>
> >Anyone read the Midshipman's Hope Series by David Feintuch? I must say that
> >this series was the most enjoyable, thoroughly entertaining, and well written
> >set of novels that I have ever read.
>
> (the dialogue in particular), and it didn't hold me past the first
> couple of chapters.
>
Interesting... I found the dialogue quite stilted, but I enjoyed the
stories, and especially the character studies. "Cast-iron son-of-a-
bitch" does not _begin_ to describe Nick Seafort; he has "personality
problems beyond the dreams of analysts". However, I find his thought
processes fascinating-while-revolting. In short, I would hate the
bejeezus out of the guy if he really existed, but can't resist reading
about his escapades. (BTW, stilted or no, the climax of Fisherman's
Hope was very well written for tension, sez I)
Are there any other such characters out there? Those you find repellent
but whose escapades keep drawing you back?
Pax,
T. Terry
Scott Engleman
Ted Fazioli (faz...@an.hp.com) wrote:
>Anyone read the Midshipman's Hope Series by David Feintuch? I must say that
>this series was the most enjoyable, thoroughly entertaining, and well written
>creation of characters, relationships, technologies, and drama that really were
>a thrill to experience. The whole thing with the Navy discipline, the
>Trannies, the computer personalities - imaginative ideas that really seemed to
>work.
>well, but I would heartily recommend it. If you're out there, Mr. Feintuch,
>thanks for the stories, including the follow-up, Voices of Hope. They all were
>great fun.
Feintuch seems to regularly read and sometimes post to this newsgroup, so he'll
probably read your opinion. I liked the series very much (I think I read all
4 books in a 3-week period in October '96). The story reminded me somewhat of
my favorite juvenile/military-SF author, Heinlein (the series almost reads
like an extended version of "Starman Jones."). The sequel and his
fantasy novel "The Still" were rather mediocre, IMHO. We'll have to
see if Feintuch is a one-trick pony. Definitely a good first trick, tho'.
Scott Engleman
David Feintuch
Ted Fazioli wrote:
>
> Anyone read the Midshipman's Hope Series by David Feintuch? I must say that
> this series was the most enjoyable, thoroughly entertaining, and well written
> set of novels that I have ever read. The whole series included a wonderful
> creation of characters, relationships, technologies, and drama that really were
> a thrill to experience. The whole thing with the Navy discipline, the
> Trannies, the computer personalities - imaginative ideas that really seemed to
> work.
Thanks for the comments - I appreciate them.
> I haven't read any reviews of this series, so I guess it didn't go over so
> well, but I would heartily recommend it. If you're out there, Mr. Feintuch,
> thanks for the stories, including the follow-up, Voices of Hope. They all were
> great fun.
>
Actually, the series is going over QUITE well. Midshipman's Hope, for
example, is in its 9th printing. There will be one more book in the
series, tentatively titled Patriarch's Hope, coming out
next year.
--
David Feintuch
Author of:
THE STILL
MIDSHIPMAN'S HOPE CHALLENGER'S HOPE
PRISONER'S HOPE FISHERMAN'S HOPE
VOICES OF HOPE
David Feintuch
Troy Terry wrote:
>
> I enjoyed the stories, and especially the character studies. "Cast-iron son-of-a-
> bitch" does not _begin_ to describe Nick Seafort; he has "personality
> problems beyond the dreams of analysts".
Ok, so Nick can be a little difficult. Give the guy a break --
consider his upbringing.
However, I find his thought
> processes fascinating-while-revolting. In short, I would hate the
> bejeezus out of the guy if he really existed, but can't resist reading
> about his escapades. (BTW, stilted or no, the climax of Fisherman's
> Hope was very well written for tension, sez I)
Thank you very much, sez I.
David Feintuch
Scott Engleman wrote:
> Feintuch seems to regularly read and sometimes post to this newsgroup, so he'll
> probably read your opinion.
I'm developing a killfile that only shows me positive articles :)
I liked the series very much (I think I read all
> 4 books in a 3-week period in October '96). The story reminded me somewhat of
> my favorite juvenile/military-SF author, Heinlein (the series almost reads
> like an extended version of "Starman Jones.").
Thank you.
The sequel and his fantasy novel "The Still" were rather mediocre,
IMHO.
Odd that you didn't like Voices of Hope. Most reviewers thought it was
the best of the lot.
I liked it rather well myself, though I would never put myself through
anything so difficult to write again.
We'll have to
> see if Feintuch is a one-trick pony. Definitely a good first trick, tho'.
Hey, guy, I've had six published already. Doesn't that qualify me at
least as a six trick pony?
>
> Scott Engleman
jha...@cub.kcnet.org
In article <6gm6t5$a...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
writ...@cris.com wrote:
>
> Troy Terry wrote:
> >
> > I enjoyed the stories, and especially the character studies. "Cast-iron
son-of-a-
> > bitch" does not _begin_ to describe Nick Seafort; he has "personality
> > problems beyond the dreams of analysts".
>
> Ok, so Nick can be a little difficult. Give the guy a break --
> consider his upbringing.
>
> However, I find his thought
> > processes fascinating-while-revolting. In short, I would hate the
> > bejeezus out of the guy if he really existed, but can't resist reading
> > about his escapades. (BTW, stilted or no, the climax of Fisherman's
> > Hope was very well written for tension, sez I)
>
> Thank you very much, sez I.
>
> David Feintuch
> Author of:
>
> THE STILL
>
> MIDSHIPMAN'S HOPE CHALLENGER'S HOPE
> PRISONER'S HOPE FISHERMAN'S HOPE
> VOICES OF HOPE
>
Okay this is probably against all etiquette but David, are you writing a
sequel to The Still? and if so any release date yet?
thanks
john
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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William Denton
Meredith Dixon <dix...@access.mountain.net> wrote:
: Personally, I read the first four books, disliked each book more
: than the last, and finally decided that I would a> never waste my
: money on any more of Feintuch's works, and b> give the four books I
: had purchased away, preferably to a library I didn't like very much.
I bought all five, read one-and-a-half, and haven't gotten around to
giving them away. I got them because I'd heard they were "Hornblower
in space," and an acquaintance said she'd really liked them. I don't
think she reads a lot.
I wish Mr. Feintuch all the best with his future endeavours, but he'll
be getting no more royalties from me.
Bill
--
--
William Denton : Toronto, Ontario, Canada : bu...@interlog.com
http://www.vex.net/~buff/
Steve Moss
On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:41:44 GMT, dix...@access.mountain.net (Meredith
Dixon) wrote:
>On 8 Apr 1998 01:37:43 GMT, faz...@an.hp.com (Ted Fazioli) wrote:
>>Anyone read the Midshipman's Hope Series by David Feintuch? I must say that
>>this series was the most enjoyable, thoroughly entertaining, and well written
>>set of novels that I have ever read.
>*Midshipman's Hope* wasn't very good, IMO, but it wasn't awful.
>It was decent enough pulp. The writing plodded, but, after all,
>I thought, it was a first novel. The "How to Succeed in Business
>Without Really Trying" plot was mildly amusing, and I rather liked the
>C.S. Forrester-in-space approach.
I thought Midshipman's Hope was very well done. I haven't got around
to reading the rest of the series yet by I do intend to give it a go.
(snip)
Ward Donald Griffiths III
David Feintuch wrote:
> Hey, guy, I've had six published already. Doesn't that qualify me at
> least as a six trick pony?
Some of the folks around here consider the entire Heinlein canon as
"one trick" and might grant Asimov two since he occasionally wrote
articles for TV Guide.
As much as I would never like the man in person (as I mentioned a year
or so back), I look forward to the next installment of the Nicholas
Seafort Saga.
--
Ward Griffiths
They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
David Feintuch
jha...@cub.kcnet.org wrote:
>
> Okay this is probably against all etiquette but David, are you writing a
> sequel to The Still? and if so any release date yet?
>
The second and I believe final book regarding the Still is in progress
- I started it a few weeks ago.
It will be published some time next year, but I have no further
information and we haven't even settled on
a title yet.
Thanks for asking. I've had a lot of interest in The Still -- a lot of
readers seem surprised
in that it's so different from the Seafort series.
David Feintuch
Steve Moss wrote:
>
> I thought Midshipman's Hope was very well done. I haven't got around
> to reading the rest of the series yet by I do intend to give it a go.
Steve, thanks a lot. Midshipman is in it's 9th printing, so there are
more than
a few folks out there whjo must agree with you.
Very few readers seem to have little feeling about the books. They
either love them or
hate them. Not sure why...
Andrew C. Lannen
On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:14:45 -0400, David Feintuch <writ...@cris.com>
wrote:
>Steve, thanks a lot. Midshipman is in it's 9th printing, so there are
>more than a few folks out there who must agree with you.
I would say that more people here like the books than dislike
them. Most of the complaints that I've seen have less to do with the
style of the books than the fact that Nicholas Seafort is an unlovable
sonofabitch.
>Very few readers seem to have little feeling about the books. They
>either love them or hate them. Not sure why...
How about someone (like me) who loved the first four, but
couldn't stand the fifth one. Part of it was the shift away from
Nicholas. But the biggest problem for me was the style of the book.
I normally don't mind first-person narrators, but using more than one
first-person narrator throws me.
--Andrew
-----
Andrew C. Lannen /// and...@ix.netcom.com
"Cynic: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as
they are, not as they ought to be." -- Ambrose Bierce
John Scalzi
>Very few readers seem to have little feeling about the books. They
>either love them or hate them. Not sure why...
Hmmmm. Well, I didn't *hate* the one I read ("Midshipman's Hope"). It
just didn't hold my interest. It reminded me mildly of Heinlein's
"Starman Jones," however, which I enjoyed quite a bit. Chalk me up as
a member of that extreme minority.
C'est la Vie. This isn't saying the books are bad. It's just not what
I like. I know my own personal tastes well enough to know that there's
a lot of stuff out there that many if not most people regard as "good"
SF that either bored me or just left me flat. As I mentioned earlier
in the thread, it takes all sorts.
But I *did* at least bother to buy the book, David -- sometime last
January, you had a cup of coffee on me.
Kerry J. Renaissance
>On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:14:45 -0400, David Feintuch <writ...@cris.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Steve, thanks a lot. Midshipman is in it's 9th printing, so there are
>>more than a few folks out there who must agree with you.
>
> I would say that more people here like the books than dislike
>them. Most of the complaints that I've seen have less to do with the
>style of the books than the fact that Nicholas Seafort is an unlovable
>sonofabitch.
Odd.... I _liked_ Nick Seafort. Certainly he had a lot of problems,
but I thought they made sense given the circumstances.
>>Very few readers seem to have little feeling about the books. They
>>either love them or hate them. Not sure why...
>
> How about someone (like me) who loved the first four, but
>couldn't stand the fifth one. Part of it was the shift away from
>Nicholas. But the biggest problem for me was the style of the book.
>I normally don't mind first-person narrators, but using more than one
>first-person narrator throws me.
What I didn't like about the last Hope book is that it didn't give me
enough resolution for the one before it. Nick had pretty much lost
_everything_ by the end of the fourth book and we left at the apex of
his despair. The epilogue wasn't particularly reassuring -- and then
in _Voices_ he's found another wife (who managed to survive and stay
sane throughout the book, remarkably enough), had a child, and seemed
to have found _some_ stabilization. I would've like to have known how
he got to that point. Granted, it didn't stay that way -- this is
Nick Seafort, after all -- but it was too much to take as a given
right away and distanced me a lot from _Voices_. I still haven't
added it to my bookshelf, though I liked the series and I'm a fanatic
about having a complete series on my shelf usually (well, within
limits. I dropped _Dragonlance_ when it entered franchise territory,
and I've kept my distance from Lackey since she no longer seems
capable of writing anything but trilogies set in the Valdemar universe
-- and a few other cases like that...).
-- Kerry
kerr...@mills.edu
"I am the strength and the heart and the root,
I am the soul of the wood..."
Tharsia
I had that problem with the lack of focus in the last one, too. However, I
think that people who think that Seafort is completely unloveable are taking
_Seafort's_ word for it and not reading the subtext. Recall if you will that
Seafort _is_ the narrator and to say that he has a problem with self-esteem is
to understate because there is no real way to say how bad his problem is.
Then consider that
1) plenty of decent people in the books respect and love Seafort, to his
manifest incomprehension;
2) by all accounts General MacArthur was a 'cast-iron S.O.B.' too, with an ego
bigger than the state of NY, but that he was adored and glorified by many who
served him, and who stated expressly that MacArthur had a right to his ego,
given his intelligence, strategic skills, and personal courage. I expect Julius
Caesar was like that too. For all his faults, Nicholas Seafort's prolonged
nervous breakdown comes about precisely _because_ he isn't possessed of the
monumental ego which would allow him to do brutal but necessary duties without
any self-doubt.
3) Seafort is writing all this out at his spiritual advisor's behest, as part
of his 'penance,' and is certainly not concerned with making himself look good.
In fact, most people around Seafort have no clue as to his internal misery and
self-condemnation; they understand that he is unhappy due to his losses, but
don't begin to suspect that he condemns himself for everything that's wrong in
the galaxy.
On a different aspect - It's important to recognize the difficulties inherent
in writing a mentally-unbalanced character, particularly main character, and
most especially one who is the narrator. Generally speaking the narrator (like
Ishmael) is the voice of reason and sane perception; the one exception I can
think of offhand is the Tell-Tale Heart by Poe. Given that the narration has to
convey, in this series, 1) a story with a Plot; 2) descriptions of stuff and
settings; 3) descriptions of characters in such a way that we can see them
through the layers of the narrator's perceptions; and 4) the narrator's
character and internal states, I think the writer has achieved a remarkable
success.
Tha...@aol.com (in mundane terms, joan barger)
"Whoever does not study history is doomed to repeat it."
Where are the eagles and the trumpets?
— T. S. Elliot
Colin Whipple
I loved them until I got to Voices of Hope. I have not been able
to get very far into that one.
Colin
David Feintuch wrote in message
<6gom5o$3...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>Steve Moss wrote:
>>
>> I thought Midshipman's Hope was very well done. I haven't got
around
>> to reading the rest of the series yet by I do intend to give
it a go.
>
>Steve, thanks a lot. Midshipman is in it's 9th printing, so
there are
>more than
>a few folks out there whjo must agree with you.
>
JimKas123
>Ted Fazioli wrote:
>>
>> Anyone read the Midshipman's Hope Series by David Feintuch? I must say
>that
>> this series was the most enjoyable, thoroughly entertaining, and well
>written
>> creation of characters, relationships, technologies, and drama that really
>were
>> a thrill to experience. The whole thing with the Navy discipline, the
>> Trannies, the computer personalities - imaginative ideas that really seemed
>to
>> work.
I enjoyed the series 1-4 greatly. I haven't gotten to 5 yet. I think the
moral and character problems addressed were excellent and could have been
positioned equally as well in a historical setting. As a Sci-Fi series, the
sci was a little weak, but the pacing and character suspense kept me involved.
It's great to be living in a time in which it is easy to communicate your
apprecitation to the author easily. Thanks, David.
Jim Kasischke
David Feintuch
Wow, what a great post. You really took the time to think things
through regarding the series.
Tharsia wrote:
>
> I had that problem with the lack of focus in the last one, too. However, I
> think that people who think that Seafort is completely unloveable are taking
> _Seafort's_ word for it and not reading the subtext. Recall if you will that
> Seafort _is_ the narrator and to say that he has a problem with self-esteem is
> to understate because there is no real way to say how bad his problem is.
> Then consider that
> 1) plenty of decent people in the books respect and love Seafort, to his
> manifest incomprehension;
Exactly so. Nick Seafort always fails to see why other people respect
him, but we, as readers, see it.
> For all his faults, Nicholas Seafort's prolonged
> nervous breakdown comes about precisely _because_ he isn't possessed of the
> monumental ego which would allow him to do brutal but necessary duties without
> any self-doubt.
Correct. And lemme tell you, writing it almost caused ME to have the
nervous breakdown :)
> 3) Seafort is writing all this out at his spiritual advisor's behest, as part
> of his 'penance,' and is certainly not concerned with making himself look good.
True, except for Voices of Hope, clearly written AFTER his stay in the
monastery.
> In fact, most people around Seafort have no clue as to his internal misery and
> self-condemnation; they understand that he is unhappy due to his losses, but
> don't begin to suspect that he condemns himself for everything that's wrong in
> the galaxy.
I think you're right, though I never realized that before.
> On a different aspect - It's important to recognize the difficulties inherent
> in writing a mentally-unbalanced character, particularly main character, and
> most especially one who is the narrator. Generally speaking the narrator (like
> Ishmael) is the voice of reason and sane perception...
> Given that the narration has to
> convey, in this series, 1) a story with a Plot; 2) descriptions of stuff and
> settings; 3) descriptions of characters in such a way that we can see them
> through the layers of the narrator's perceptions; and 4) the narrator's
> character and internal states, I think the writer has achieved a remarkable
> success.
Thanks much. I appreciate bit. Next year there will be one more
(last?) Seafort novel,
tentatively called Patriarch's Hope, written again from Nick Seafort's
perspective.
David Feintuch
Colin Whipple wrote:
>
> I loved them until I got to Voices of Hope. I have not been able
> to get very far into that one.
>
I knew when I wrote it that by abandoning Nick Seafort's first-person
voice, I was moving away from what my readers expected and liked. But
personally, I feel that in the end, it was worth it. Toward the latter
half of the book, Seafort comes back with a vengeance, and I think the
climax really pays off. The other thing Voices gave me a chance to do
was show more clearly how other people saw Nick, not just how he saw
himself...
--
David Feintuch
JimKas123 wrote:
>
> I enjoyed the series 1-4 greatly. I haven't gotten to 5 yet. I think the
> moral and character problems addressed were excellent and could have been
> positioned equally as well in a historical setting. As a Sci-Fi series, the
> sci was a little weak, but the pacing and character suspense kept me involved.
>
> It's great to be living in a time in which it is easy to communicate your
> apprecitation to the author easily. Thanks, David.
>
Hey, thanks a million. You keep me writing.
I suppose if you've follwoed this thread you know that book five,
Voices of Hope, is NOT, like the others, told by Nick Seafort. However,
I discovered in writing it, that it's impossible, when writing a book
with Nick in it, for him not to take it over completely. I had
originally intended this to be a "next generation" story, in which he
had only a walk-on role. Hah. Fat chance.
David Feintuch
Andrew C. Lannen wrote:
>
> How about someone (like me) who loved the first four, but
> couldn't stand the fifth one. Part of it was the shift away from
> Nicholas. But the biggest problem for me was the style of the book.
> I normally don't mind first-person narrators, but using more than one
> first-person narrator throws me.
Hah. Think it threw you? Try _me!_ Very few people have noticed
that I had five first-person narrators, each speaking in unvaried
sequence. It was harder than hell to line up the action so that when I
was ready to turn to a character, the appropriate action was there
waiting for them. I'll never try that straitjacket again. And then, to
speak in so many voices at once... there were three separate trannie
dialects alone. I apparently was going through a real masochistic
phase.
However, the climax of Voices really satisfied me, in a way nothing
other than the cliamx to Fisherman did. I think, in the end, it was all
worth it.
Thanks for writing.
David Feintuch
Kerry J. Renaissance wrote:
kerr...@mills.edu wrote:
> What I didn't like about the last Hope book is that it didn't give me
> enough resolution for the one before it. Nick had pretty much lost
> _everything_ by the end of the fourth book and we left at the apex of
> his despair. The epilogue wasn't particularly reassuring -- and then
> in _Voices_ he's found another wife (who managed to survive and stay
> sane throughout the book, remarkably enough), had a child, and seemed
> to have found _some_ stabilization. I would've like to have known how
> he got to that point. Granted, it didn't stay that way -- this is
> Nick Seafort, after all -- but it was too much to take as a given
> right away and distanced me a lot from _Voices_.
_Very_ interesting comment, and one which I haven't heard before. I
make it a point, in each Seafort book, to bring the reader up to date
regarding the backstory, using a different means than I have before. I
know I did so in Voices, but your point is that I didn't bring the
reader forward from the end of Fisherman to the new present. I think
you're right, though I mention a few details of it. It just never
occurred to me that it might be a problem.
John Wiseman
tha...@aol.com (Tharsia) writes:
> In fact, most people around Seafort have no clue as to his internal
> misery and self-condemnation; they understand that he is unhappy due
> to his losses, but don't begin to suspect that he condemns himself
> for everything that's wrong in the galaxy.
Ironically, I thought some of the most emotional and memorable parts
of the books were when Nick would *not* receive the condemnation from
others that he was expecting. Nuking the station, for example. There
was plenty of tension associated with Nick commiting what he thought
was a serious crime against humanity, but I felt positively drained
after he found out that the legislation had been changed in the face
of the alien threat and his previously unspeakable act had made him
Earth's champion. I felt, along with him, that he'd been cheated! He
was so looking forward to being executed and gaining release...
The first few books followed the formula of the first one rather
closely, but it took that long for me to tire of it. I guess I
wouldn't even have minded one more of the same thing before the quite
different Voices of Hope.
John
Troy Terry
David Feintuch wrote:
>
> Wow, what a great post. You really took the time to think things
> through regarding the series.
>
> Tharsia wrote:
> >
> > I had that problem with the lack of focus in the last one, too. However, I
> > think that people who think that Seafort is completely unloveable are taking
> > _Seafort's_ word for it and not reading the subtext. Recall if you will that
> > Seafort _is_ the narrator and to say that he has a problem with self-esteem is
> > to understate because there is no real way to say how bad his problem is.
>
> > Then consider that
> > 1) plenty of decent people in the books respect and love Seafort, to his
> > manifest incomprehension;
>
> Exactly so. Nick Seafort always fails to see why other people respect
> him, but we, as readers, see it.
>
Clarification: I don't think Seafort is utterly unloveable. There is
much to respect about him. However, I would still decline to see him
socially, due to his habit of taking out his frustrations on others.
It seems to me that one of the major reasons for Nick's "self-imposed"
isolation is actually due to the Navy. Consider: he is undisputed mon-
arch aboard his ship, and, he believes, supposed to be remote and un-
approachable. Note that by the end of Fisherman's Hope, Nick has never
served under a good ship commander as an officer. In his case, the Navy
training regimen has broken down: nobody ever told him _how_ a
successful
captain balances authoritarian stand-offishness with the human need for
social intercourse. Nor does the third-party perspective show an
example
of this in action. What is the captain's proper social group?
Of course, some of the fault lies with Nick himself. He is very
impulsive,
and very, _very_ bad at containing his anger. If he had read more
science fiction as a boy, he would have learned of the moderating power
of counting backwards in Sanskrit. Note that he himself realizes that
he
emotionally "whipsaws" his subordinates/friends with alternating warmth
and
howling rage. Methinks a brief anger-management course is in order...?
> > For all his faults, Nicholas Seafort's prolonged
> > nervous breakdown comes about precisely _because_ he isn't possessed of the
> > monumental ego which would allow him to do brutal but necessary duties without
> > any self-doubt.
>
> Correct. And lemme tell you, writing it almost caused ME to have the
> nervous breakdown :)
>
Poor Nick... all the terrible things Mr. Feintuch put him through! ;)
Let
me add that I can't think of a better-written example of somebody
committing
a heinous crime for the greater good and suffering for it than the end
of
Fisherman's. Bravo!
(Aside: Too bad Nick didn't use [Forgot name]'s amnesia to get a fresh
new
start on their friendship.)
[...]
>
> > In fact, most people around Seafort have no clue as to his internal misery and
> > self-condemnation; they understand that he is unhappy due to his losses, but
> > don't begin to suspect that he condemns himself for everything that's wrong in
> > the galaxy.
>
> I think you're right, though I never realized that before.
>
My thoughts may have been invalidated by Voices of Hope, which I have
not yet read, but the hints at the end of F.H. seem to indicate that
even
the stay in the monastery has not broken him of this bad habit. He
apparently suffers from a very special form of egotism: he cannot seem
to believe anything bad happening is _not_ somehow his fault. He is
thus
under more pressure than he really needs to be.
BTW, Mr. Feintuch, if Heinlein's World-as-Myth theory is correct,
Nicholas
Seafort may come "look you up" some time to "discuss" the incredible
strings
of "bad luck" that always seem to come his way. Now there's a thought
...
the world awash in fictional characters come alive to get revenge on
their
authors.
Pax,
T. Terry
mst...@caiwireless.net
>Ted Fazioli wrote:
>
> Anyone read the Midshipman's Hope Series by David Feintuch? I must say that
> this series was the most enjoyable, thoroughly entertaining, and well written
> set of novels that I have ever read. The whole series included a wonderful
> creation of characters, relationships, technologies, and drama that really were
> a thrill to experience. The whole thing with the Navy discipline, the
> Trannies, the computer personalities - imaginative ideas that really seemed to
> work.
Great books - all five. Everytime a new one came out I would read them
in one go, no matter how late it got. Thank goodness for those unused
vacation days 8-) .
The one thing that hasn't really been resolved in the books is the
Fish situation. Earth just seems to have driven them off for the
moment. Is this a clue to a sixth book?
David Feintuch
mst...@caiwireless.net wrote:
> Great books - all five. Everytime a new one came out I would read them
> in one go, no matter how late it got. Thank goodness for those unused
> vacation days 8-) .
Thanks much. Glad you liked them.
>
> The one thing that hasn't really been resolved in the books is the
> Fish situation. Earth just seems to have driven them off for the
> moment. Is this a clue to a sixth book?
Well, look at it this way. The Fish situation isn't resolved in that
we don't know just where they came from, or what exactly drove them,
other than an attraction similar to that of a moth for the light. But
the caterwaul stations Seafort finally got the Navy to adopt kept
cqlling Fish, until eventually no more came to answer the call. A form
of genocide, I suppose. But what was the alternative? Giving up Fusion
as the only measns of interstellar travel?
I believe Voices of Hope leaves the impression that all the Fish are
gone now, or at least that they are no longer a menace.
The series clearly ended with Fisherman. Voices was just an epilogue
of sorts. I knew after voices I would never write another Seafort
book. BUT...
The sixth, and presumably final Seafort novel, tentatively titled
Patriarch's Hope, will be published next year.
Thanks for writing.
David Feintuch
mstick wrote:
>
> Voices also hints to us that the Navy seems to be abandoning these
> stations without knowing for sure whether all the Fish are gone. Is
> this wise?
No, it isn't, and if Voices hints that, I'm surprised. I didn't think
there was any such suggestion in the book.
> I alone ago added your name to my account at Amazon.com to make sure
> that I would be notified as soon as something comes out.
Thanks much.
mstick
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:29:25 -0400, David Feintuch <writ...@cris.com>
wrote:
>mst...@caiwireless.net wrote:
>
>> Great books - all five. Everytime a new one came out I would read them
>> in one go, no matter how late it got. Thank goodness for those unused
>> vacation days 8-) .
>
> Thanks much. Glad you liked them.
>
>>
>> The one thing that hasn't really been resolved in the books is the
>> Fish situation. Earth just seems to have driven them off for the
>> moment. Is this a clue to a sixth book?
>
> Well, look at it this way. The Fish situation isn't resolved in that
>we don't know just where they came from, or what exactly drove them,
>other than an attraction similar to that of a moth for the light. But
>the caterwaul stations Seafort finally got the Navy to adopt kept
>cqlling Fish, until eventually no more came to answer the call. A form
>of genocide, I suppose. But what was the alternative? Giving up Fusion
>as the only measns of interstellar travel?
>
> I believe Voices of Hope leaves the impression that all the Fish are
>gone now, or at least that they are no longer a menace.
>
Voices also hints to us that the Navy seems to be abandoning these
stations without knowing for sure whether all the Fish are gone. Is
this wise? I would have thought that with the danger that the Fish
pose to not only to instellar travel and trade, but to Earth itself,
that it would be prudent to know one way or another.
To use your own nature analogy - it may be that the ones that answered
the caterwaul stations call are only one form of the moth and that
another whole batch of larvae exist to yet be hatched out.
> The series clearly ended with Fisherman. Voices was just an epilogue
>of sorts. I knew after voices I would never write another Seafort
>book. BUT...
I can't disagree with you on Voices being the final polish to an
ending - as you are the author - but...
You do introduce a whole new generation of characters that leave us
asking what happens to them.
>
> The sixth, and presumably final Seafort novel, tentatively titled
>Patriarch's Hope, will be published next year.
>
I alone ago added your name to my account at Amazon.com to make sure
that I would be notified as soon as something comes out.
In times of rapid change learners inherit the earth,
while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to
deal with a world that no longer exists.
-Eric Hoffer
BoxHill
Mr. Feintuch, before you proceed any further, I really wish you would rethink
your approach to female characters. And particularly to the succession of
inappropriate twits Seaforth chooses to marry. (I admit that I haven't read
Voices; I note that the epilogue to Fisherman hints that he may finally have
hooked up with a reasonable partner.)
Janet
//Dear Artemesia! Poetry's a snare:
//Bedlam has many Mansions: have a care:
//Your Muse diverts you, makes the Reader sad:
//You think your self inspir'd; He thinks you mad.
David Feintuch
BoxHill wrote:
>
> Mr. Feintuch, before you proceed any further, I really wish you would rethink
> your approach to female characters. And particularly to the succession of
> inappropriate twits Seaforth chooses to marry. (I admit that I haven't read
> Voices; I note that the epilogue to Fisherman hints that he may finally have
> hooked up with a reasonable partner.)
He did. His wife Arlene is a strong personality and a good woman -- I
think you'll like her in Voices.
I don't want to give much away, but there will be another Seafort book,
tentatively called Patriarch's Hope. The same woman figures prominently
in that novel as well.
Thanks for writing. And, by the way, what was so inappropriate about
Amanda? Why was she a twit? Just because she became unhinged by the
death of her son...
Lynn Calvin
box...@aol.com (BoxHill) wrote:
>Mr. Feintuch, before you proceed any further, I really wish you would rethink
>your approach to female characters. And particularly to the succession of
>inappropriate twits Seaforth chooses to marry. (I admit that I haven't read
>Voices; I note that the epilogue to Fisherman hints that he may finally have
>hooked up with a reasonable partner.)
Not to mention the terrible things that happen to them... Personally,
I'd look at his record and run.
More seriously, most of the women with whom Seafort is involved have
some flavor of being "plot devices" rather than characters.
But I'll still buy the next one. (and more Still, although I find
trade paperbacks annoying.)
Lynn Calvin
lca...@interaccess.com
David Feintuch
Lynn Calvin wrote:
>
> More seriously, most of the women with whom Seafort is involved have
> some flavor of being "plot devices" rather than characters.
>
> But I'll still buy the next one.
Lynn, do you feel that way about Arlene Sanders, in Fisherman's Hope
and Voices of Hope?
My own opinion was that she was (a) well-developed, and (b) not at all
wimpy.