Saberhagen's Berserker series - where do I begin?
tobymax43
Berserker Throne. I didn't buy the rest
I probably will this weekend. I don't think the dealer has all the
books. Anyways I am reading Berserker which
copyright based seems to be the oldest. Its a collection of short
stories about our war with the Berserkers written
in the mid 1960s.
The problem is its seems like the book starts in the middle of a
story. We are already at war with them and its
been going on for a while. Is there a book that precedes this one -
either written after that explains how this
war started or one with an older copyright that explains it all?
Shawn Wilson
> I bought at a fleamarket Saberhagen's Berserker, Berserker War's and
> Berserker Throne. I didn't buy the rest
> I probably will this weekend. I don't think the dealer has all the
> books. Anyways I am reading Berserker which
> copyright based seems to be the oldest. Its a collection of short
> stories about our war with the Berserkers written
> in the mid 1960s.
Yes, start there.
> The problem is its seems like the book starts in the middle of a
> story. We are already at war with them and its
> been going on for a while. Is there a book that precedes this one -
> either written after that explains how this
> war started or one with an older copyright that explains it all?
Nope. Which is not to say that at some point someone didn't
eventually write such a story.
Best Berserker short story- 'Wings out of Shadow', also 'The Smile'
Best novel- Brother Assassin.
Greg Goss
>The problem is its seems like the book starts in the middle of a
>story. We are already at war with them and its
>been going on for a while. Is there a book that precedes this one -
>either written after that explains how this
>war started or one with an older copyright that explains it all?
I think that the berzerker war was just a background to set up a
standard-issue Analog "puzzle story". The rest of the series grew
from there.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
tobymax43
Joseph Nebus
>On Apr 29, 12:01=A0am, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>> tobymax43 <toby...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >The problem is its seems like the book starts in the middle of a
>> >story. We are already at war with them and its
>> >been going on for a while. Is there a book that precedes this one -
>> >either written after that explains how this
>> >war started or one with an older copyright that explains it all?
>>
>> I think that the berzerker war was just a background to set up a
>> standard-issue Analog "puzzle story". =A0The rest of the series grew
>> from there.
>What is an Analog "puzzle story"?
``Doctor, you know Earth can't put up with this problem forever!''
``I know, General, but we can't do anything about it unless ---
wait, let's review.''
[ EXPOSITORY LUMP ]
``Wait a minute, General, I have an idea, we could try --- ''
[ INITIAL ATTEMPT; DOESN'T GO ANYWHERE ]
``The problem with you Scientists is you don't think practically.
Here's what we should have done all along and we're going to do it now
while you fret just off camera focus --- ''
[ SECOND ATTEMPT; LEAVES THINGS WORSE OFF ]
``I told you, General, we have to *think* our way out of this!
We just have to come up with a new idea to think, that's where our real
value is, that's what ... ''
[ CAMPBELLIAN LUMP IN PRAISE OF ORIGINAL THINKING AS LONG AS IT'S
NOT ONE OF THOSE WIMPY SUBJECTS LIBERAL ARTS MAJORS THINK ABOUT; IF IT
CAN INVOLVE HOW COOL SPACE IS ALL THE BETTER; MAYBE INCLUDE DISMISSAL OF
THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF POLITICIANS ]
``Wait! Why, General or Doctor whichever one I am not, it's so
obvious! The clues were laid out before us all the time! We have to --- ''
[ THIRD ATTEMPT; HEY, HOW ABOUT THAT, IT WORKS AND EVERYONE IS
HAPPY, UNLESS THIS IS YET ANOTHER WATERED-DOWN UTILITARIAN _THE COLD
EQUATIONS_ KNOCKOFF, IN WHICH CASE THERE IS SLIGHTLY LESS CHEERING ]
``You know, Doctor or General whichever one I am not, this has been
a long day.''
``Ha ha! You said it! Let's engage in ordinary human small-talk
activities!''
[ BOTH CLAP EACH OTHER'S BACK, SMILE THROUGH CLOSING CREDITS,
PREVIEW OF NEXT WEEK'S EPISODE ]
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Grosberg
A story that exists solely for the scientific puzle presented in it.
The first story in the Berserkers universe, _Without a thought_,
presented a rather contrived scenario involving a human ship and a
Berserker in which the berserker had a weapon that could lower the
intelligence of both computers and human minds. the human had, for
some reason, play a series of games of a simplified version of
checkers while in a state of diminished intelligence. The solution was
this:
Hfvat fbzr gblf ur "unccrarq" gb unir ba obneq naq n genvarq navzny
juvpu pbhyq sbyybj pbzcyrk beqref ohg abg guvax sbe vgfrys, ur perngrq
n pbzchgre-yvxr flfgrz gung hfrq n fvzcyr trargvp nytbevguz. Tnzr
fgngrf jrer ercerfragrq ol pbyberq onyyf, gur gur genvarq navzny zbirq
gur nppbeqvat gb frg ehyrf, fbeg bs yvxr gur puvarfr-ebbz fpranevb.
It was probably a vert good way to introduce the subject back in the
60's when computer science was not mainstream and even most Analog
readers knew next to nothing about that sort of thing. But as a
story... way too contrived.
David Johnston
> The problem is its seems like the book starts in the middle of a
> story. We are already at war with them and its
> been going on for a while. Is there a book that precedes this one -
> either written after that explains how this
> war started or one with an older copyright that explains it all?
There is no Berserker timeline or real continuity. Don't worry about
it.
Michael Stemper
>On Apr 28, 8:05=A0pm, tobymax43 <toby...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> books. Anyways I am reading Berserker which
>> copyright based seems to be the oldest. Its a collection of short
>> stories about our war with the Berserkers written
>> in the mid 1960s.
>
>Yes, start there.
I agree.
In fact, absent information to the contrary, this is a good rule of
thumb for almost any series. The trick is, of course, to make sure
that you get the copyright date of the individual contents rather than
that of the collection.
If memory serves, _Berserker Throne_ is fairly late stuff.
>Nope. Which is not to say that at some point someone didn't
>eventually write such a story.
>
>Best Berserker short story- 'Wings out of Shadow', also 'The Smile'
My choices would be "The Stone Place" (I think that's the title,
anyway) and "What T and I Did". Oh, yeah, and "The Mask of the
Red Death".
>Best novel- Brother Assassin.
I quite like that one, but _Berserker Man_ is my favorite. The lengthy
voyage of the spoiler still gives me chills.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
No animals were harmed in the composition of this message.
Moriarty
> tobymax43 <toby...@comcast.net> writes:
<snip>
> >What is an Analog "puzzle story"?
<snip>
Oh, very well done!
-Moriarty
Greg Goss
>On Apr 29, 4:19�pm, tobymax43 <toby...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Apr 29, 12:01�am, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I think that the berzerker war was just a background to set up a
>> > standard-issue Analog "puzzle story". �The rest of the series grew
>> > from there.
>>
>> What is an Analog "puzzle story"?
>But as a story... way too contrived.
That's what makes it an archetype of the "standard-issue Analog puzzle
story". Grin.
Robert A. Woodward
<5202cc5b-43c5-4692...@h9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Michael Grosberg <grosberg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 29, 4:19�pm, tobymax43 <toby...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Apr 29, 12:01�am, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> >
> > > tobymax43 <toby...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > >The problem is its seems like the book starts in the middle of a
> > > >story. We are already at war with them and its
> > > >been going on for a while. Is there a book that precedes this one -
> > > >either written after that explains how this
> > > >war started or one with an older copyright that explains it all?
> >
> > > I think that the berzerker war was just a background to set up a
> > > standard-issue Analog "puzzle story". �The rest of the series grew
> > > from there.
> > > --
> > > Tomorrow is today already.
> > > Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
> >
> > What is an Analog "puzzle story"?
>
> A story that exists solely for the scientific puzle presented in it.
> The first story in the Berserkers universe, _Without a thought_,
> presented a rather contrived scenario involving a human ship and a
> Berserker in which the berserker had a weapon that could lower the
> intelligence of both computers and human minds. the human had, for
> some reason, play a series of games of a simplified version of
> checkers while in a state of diminished intelligence.
Er, this story was published in _IF_ (edited by Fred Pohl at the
time; I am not certain if Saberhagen ever sold a story to Campbell).
--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>
Michael Grosberg
> Er, this story was published in _IF_ (edited by Fred Pohl at the
> time; I am not certain if Saberhagen ever sold a story to Campbell).
A standard-issue Analog puzzle story doesn't have to appear in
Analog...
Mike Van Pelt
Michael Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>My choices would be "The Stone Place" (I think that's the title,
>anyway) and "What T and I Did". Oh, yeah, and "The Mask of the
>Red Death".
That's "Masque of the Red Shift." Coolest. Title. Ever.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Mike Beede
<2b1a8432-6f27-4c60...@r21g2000prr.googlegroups.com>,
Shawn Wilson <ikono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Best Berserker short story- 'Wings out of Shadow', also 'The Smile'
I personally think the best Berserker short story was
_Itself Surprised_, though it wasn't written by Saberhagen.
Mike Beede
Greg Goss
>> > On Apr 29, 12:01�am, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>> > > I think that the berzerker war was just a background to set up a
>> > > standard-issue Analog "puzzle story". �The rest of the series grew
>> > > from there.
>Er, this story was published in _IF_ (edited by Fred Pohl at the
>time; I am not certain if Saberhagen ever sold a story to Campbell).
Ah, but Analog set the style. Even if other mags used it from time to
time.
Mark Zenier
Seconded.
And some of it can get rather fuzzy and mystical. One reviewer pointed
out that his fantasy was often harder SF than his hard SF.
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
Butch Malahide
> "Robert A. Woodward" <rober...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Apr 29, 12:01 am, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> >> > > I think that the berzerker war was just a background to set up a
> >> > > standard-issue Analog "puzzle story". The rest of the series grew
> >> > > from there.
> >Er, this story was published in _IF_ (edited by Fred Pohl at the
> >time; I am not certain if Saberhagen ever sold a story to Campbell).
>
> Ah, but Analog set the style.
But before Analog there were standard-issue Astounding puzzle stories.
Not all that different.
Greg Goss
True. And the story in question was from that era. As someone who
discovered Analog in the seventies, I misspoke. (I went back and
bought a LOT of older issues over the years, though.)
William December Starr
m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) said:
> Michael Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My choices would be "The Stone Place" (I think that's the title,
>> anyway) and "What T and I Did". Oh, yeah, and "The Mask of the
>> Red Death".
>
> That's "Masque of the Red Shift." Coolest. Title. Ever.
What about "Every Little Thing She Does is Sufficiently Advanced
Technology"?
Which, admittedly, only showed up in a Doctor Who fanfic somewhere,
but still.
-- wds