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Good SF for teens, especially boys?
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PeterM
Oct 9, 2012, 11:18:00 PM10/9/12
to
I had a patron at my library today ask me to order
more science fiction aimed at boys. It's his opinion
that most of what we're seeing for teens these days
is more fantasy than science fiction, and that it's
aimed more at girls than boys. I think the former
claim is more easily defended than the latter, but
whatever the overall truth is it's a fair criticism
of my library's YA section.
So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction
that would appeal to boys at least as much as to
girls. I'm not overly concerned on that score, I'm
more interested in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side
of the request, but "boys vs. girls" would be nice,
too. I don't care if it's old or new stuff, and
this kid specifically asked for classic science
fiction so I've already got some of the Heinlein
juveniles on the list.
I know people have asked similar questions here in
the past, and I'm going to go looking for those threads,
but I'm interested in the current opinions as well.
Anyone have any ideas?
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Oct 9, 2012, 11:33:04 PM10/9/12
to
On 10/9/12 11:18 PM, PeterM wrote:
>
> I had a patron at my library today ask me to order
> more science fiction aimed at boys. It's his opinion
> that most of what we're seeing for teens these days
> is more fantasy than science fiction, and that it's
> aimed more at girls than boys. I think the former
> claim is more easily defended than the latter, but
> whatever the overall truth is it's a fair criticism
> of my library's YA section.
>
> So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction
> that would appeal to boys at least as much as to
> girls. I'm not overly concerned on that score, I'm
> more interested in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side
> of the request, but "boys vs. girls" would be nice,
> too. I don't care if it's old or new stuff, and
> this kid specifically asked for classic science
> fiction so I've already got some of the Heinlein
> juveniles on the list.
>
I (Ryk E. Spoor) attempt to write all my novels in that general target
>
> I had a patron at my library today ask me to order
> more science fiction aimed at boys. It's his opinion
> that most of what we're seeing for teens these days
> is more fantasy than science fiction, and that it's
> aimed more at girls than boys. I think the former
> claim is more easily defended than the latter, but
> whatever the overall truth is it's a fair criticism
> of my library's YA section.
>
> So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction
> that would appeal to boys at least as much as to
> girls. I'm not overly concerned on that score, I'm
> more interested in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side
> of the request, but "boys vs. girls" would be nice,
> too. I don't care if it's old or new stuff, and
> this kid specifically asked for classic science
> fiction so I've already got some of the Heinlein
> juveniles on the list.
>
area, and "Heinlein Juvenile crossed with Clarke" was what I was aiming
for with _Boundary_ and _Threshold_ (written with Eric Flint). My novel
_Grand Central Arena_ is a large-scale space opera written as a modern
throwback to the Doc Smith era.
For older stuff, you can't go wrong with James Schmitz either for boys
or girls. H. Beam Piper's "Little Fuzzy" is one of my favorites, too.
You've already put down the RAH juvies so that's a good call. If you
don't have Niven's earlier work that might be a good shot too.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Kip Williams
Oct 9, 2012, 11:38:13 PM10/9/12
to
Bertrand R. Brinley's "Mad Scientists Club" series is more of a prep for
fandom — brilliant, anti-social (and mostly male) proto-geeks prank the
stuffy in their small town. Absolutely brilliant stuff, too.
Kip W
rasfw
fandom — brilliant, anti-social (and mostly male) proto-geeks prank the
stuffy in their small town. Absolutely brilliant stuff, too.
Kip W
rasfw
Dorothy J Heydt
Oct 9, 2012, 11:41:13 PM10/9/12
to
In article <3977783e-806b-4799...@googlegroups.com>,
There are always the juveniles that Heinlein wrote in the 1950s,
serialized mostly in _Boy's Life_ and published with Scribner's.
Their science is somewhat outdated but they're still good
stories, and an intelligent young man would have a lot of fun
looking at what Heinlein, back in the 1950s, thought we would
have ... along about now.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
serialized mostly in _Boy's Life_ and published with Scribner's.
Their science is somewhat outdated but they're still good
stories, and an intelligent young man would have a lot of fun
looking at what Heinlein, back in the 1950s, thought we would
have ... along about now.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
lal_truckee
Oct 10, 2012, 12:37:33 AM10/10/12
to
On 10/9/12 8:18 PM, PeterM wrote:
> I've already got some of the Heinlein
> juveniles on the list.
Put them all on the list.
> I've already got some of the Heinlein
> juveniles on the list.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Oct 10, 2012, 12:48:08 AM10/10/12
to
also add Norton, in particular _The Zero Stone_ and _Uncharted Stars_
and Nourse, in particular _Raiders From The Rings_, _Scavengers In Space_
and _The Universe Between_. Also, Gilman's _The Rebel of Rhada_.
Skewing younger, you have Lester del Rey's _Runaway Robot_
Borderline (to fantasy) cases would be Burrough's _A Princess of Mars_,
L'Engle's _A Wrinkle In Time_, Wibberley's _Journey to Untor_ and
Cameron's _The Wonderful Flight to the Mushroom Planet_ (and followups).
And of course, during the classic era, most SF was written for men,
and debuted in magazines that allowed minimal (if any) sex, so a surpring
number of ostensibly adult books can be enjoyed by boys. This includes
Van Vogt, Leinster, Asimov, Clarke, Smith, Simak, Bradbury etc.
Any modern kid reading older stuff will notice assumptions from the era
in which it was written in which the original readers will have not.
(Smoking, absence of women and minorities, assumptions of midcentury
middle-class norms etc). This can either be off-putting or add another
layer to the depiction of alien worlds..
I haven't read much recent YA SF. I thought _The Hunger Games_ were actually
pretty good, but definitely more girl oriented. I would suggest some fairly
recent adult books that might fit the bill. These include Brin's _Startide
Rising_, Weber's _On Basilisk Station_, Zahn's "Blackcollar" books and
the less romance/more action of the Laiden books by Miller & Lee. If you
want to sneak the boy into reading "regular" SF through media tie-ins,
I suggest Zahn's "Star Wars" books
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Wayne Throop
Oct 10, 2012, 12:50:04 AM10/10/12
to
:: I had a patron at my library today ask me to order more science
:: fiction aimed at boys. It's his opinion that most of what we're
:: seeing for teens these days is more fantasy than science fiction, and
:: that it's aimed more at girls than boys. I think the former claim is
:: more easily defended than the latter, but whatever the overall truth
:: is it's a fair criticism of my library's YA section.
::
:: So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction that would appeal
:: to boys at least as much as to girls. I'm not overly concerned on
:: that score, I'm more interested in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side of
:: the request, but "boys vs. girls" would be nice, too. I don't care
:: if it's old or new stuff, and this kid specifically asked for classic
:: science fiction so I've already got some of the Heinlein juveniles on
:: the list.
: t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
:: fiction aimed at boys. It's his opinion that most of what we're
:: seeing for teens these days is more fantasy than science fiction, and
:: that it's aimed more at girls than boys. I think the former claim is
:: more easily defended than the latter, but whatever the overall truth
:: is it's a fair criticism of my library's YA section.
::
:: So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction that would appeal
:: to boys at least as much as to girls. I'm not overly concerned on
:: that score, I'm more interested in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side of
:: the request, but "boys vs. girls" would be nice, too. I don't care
:: if it's old or new stuff, and this kid specifically asked for classic
:: science fiction so I've already got some of the Heinlein juveniles on
:: the list.
: Zahn's "Blackcollar" books
Eh. I like the Cobra books better, and there are more of them.
But of more interest, his Dragonback series. Though I suppose
it might be considered bordering on fantasy, the dragons are
essentially aliens that happen to look dragonish... their
properties are a bit beyond hard science, but still, the
general background is very sciency and not so fantasy-y.
And then, the Quadrail series.
Pfft... just say, "most any Zahn aside from overt fantasy would
probably work as sciency fiction for boys... and probably girls".
Dorothy J Heydt
Oct 10, 2012, 1:16:32 AM10/10/12
to
In article <adkd07...@mid.individual.net>,
And _The Uplift War, which has among its protagonists an
adolescent human male and an adolescent non-human female.
And some chimps, birds, gorillas, 'n' stuff....
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>layer to the depiction of alien worlds..
>
>...I would suggest some fairly
>layer to the depiction of alien worlds..
>
>recent adult books that might fit the bill. These include Brin's _Startide
>Rising_....
And _The Uplift War, which has among its protagonists an
adolescent human male and an adolescent non-human female.
And some chimps, birds, gorillas, 'n' stuff....
Brian M. Scott
Oct 10, 2012, 3:10:58 AM10/10/12
to
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 20:18:00 -0700 (PDT), PeterM
<peterme...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:3977783e-806b-4799...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction that
> would appeal to boys at least as much as to girls. I'm
> not overly concerned on that score, I'm more interested
> in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side of the request, but
> "boys vs. girls" would be nice, too. I don't care if it's
> old or new stuff, and this kid specifically asked for
> classic science fiction so I've already got some of the
> Heinlein juveniles on the list.
Some new and newish stuff:
Sharon Lee & Steve Miller, _Balance of Trade_ (very good)
Rhiannon Lassiter, _Void_, combining _Hex_, _Shadows_, and
_Ghosts_ (and despite the titles, it's science fiction)
Ian McDonald, _Planesrunner_
Garth Nix, _A Confusion of Princes_
David Weber, _A Beautiful Friendship_, followed by
David Weber & Jane Lindskold, _Fire Season_
Classics:
All of the Heinlein juveniles, especially _Citizen of the
Galaxy_ and _Have Spacesuit, Will Travel_; also _Double
Star_ and _The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress_. Any of Andre
Norton's early science fiction, especially _Moon of Three
Rings_. Alexei Panshin, _Rite of Passage_.
Miscellaneous, for older readers:
Amy Thomson, _Storyteller_
Janet Kagan, _Hellspark_ (an all-time favorite)
Joel Shepherd's Cassandra Kresnov trilogy, _Crossover_,
_Breakaway_, and _Killswitch_ (fascinating world,
lots of action)
Mike Shepherd's Kris Longknife series
Roger Zelazny, _Lord of Light_ (classic adult sf perfectly
suitable for teens)
Brian
<peterme...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:3977783e-806b-4799...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction that
> would appeal to boys at least as much as to girls. I'm
> not overly concerned on that score, I'm more interested
> in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side of the request, but
> "boys vs. girls" would be nice, too. I don't care if it's
> old or new stuff, and this kid specifically asked for
> classic science fiction so I've already got some of the
> Heinlein juveniles on the list.
Sharon Lee & Steve Miller, _Balance of Trade_ (very good)
Rhiannon Lassiter, _Void_, combining _Hex_, _Shadows_, and
_Ghosts_ (and despite the titles, it's science fiction)
Ian McDonald, _Planesrunner_
Garth Nix, _A Confusion of Princes_
David Weber, _A Beautiful Friendship_, followed by
David Weber & Jane Lindskold, _Fire Season_
Classics:
All of the Heinlein juveniles, especially _Citizen of the
Galaxy_ and _Have Spacesuit, Will Travel_; also _Double
Star_ and _The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress_. Any of Andre
Norton's early science fiction, especially _Moon of Three
Rings_. Alexei Panshin, _Rite of Passage_.
Miscellaneous, for older readers:
Amy Thomson, _Storyteller_
Janet Kagan, _Hellspark_ (an all-time favorite)
Joel Shepherd's Cassandra Kresnov trilogy, _Crossover_,
_Breakaway_, and _Killswitch_ (fascinating world,
lots of action)
Mike Shepherd's Kris Longknife series
Roger Zelazny, _Lord of Light_ (classic adult sf perfectly
suitable for teens)
Brian
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Oct 10, 2012, 3:23:59 AM10/10/12
to
In article <wpurr0qsusga$.17kbqb2w...@40tude.net>,
Kris Longknife?
Last I checked in on her, she was idly considering interspecies sex with
a very non-human alien. I mean yeah, that's a draw for teen boys, but
probably not something most parents would be happy for you recommending..
Last I checked in on her, she was idly considering interspecies sex with
a very non-human alien. I mean yeah, that's a draw for teen boys, but
probably not something most parents would be happy for you recommending..
Brian M. Scott
Oct 10, 2012, 8:10:04 AM10/10/12
to
On 10 Oct 2012 07:23:59 GMT, "Ted Nolan <tednolan>"
<t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote in
<news:adkm4f...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
>>Miscellaneous, for older readers:
>>Amy Thomson, _Storyteller_
>>Janet Kagan, _Hellspark_ (an all-time favorite)
>>Joel Shepherd's Cassandra Kresnov trilogy, _Crossover_,
>> _Breakaway_, and _Killswitch_ (fascinating world,
>> lots of action)
>>Mike Shepherd's Kris Longknife series
>>Roger Zelazny, _Lord of Light_ (classic adult sf perfectly
>> suitable for teens)
That's a considerable exaggeration of a very minor element
that only appears quite late in the series to date. Any kid
whose parents would object on those grounds has my sincere
sympathy. And any kid reading the series for sexual thrills
is going to be horribly disappointed. It's a mixture of
adventure and growing up, eminently suitable for teens.
Brian
<t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote in
<news:adkm4f...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
>>Miscellaneous, for older readers:
>>Amy Thomson, _Storyteller_
>>Janet Kagan, _Hellspark_ (an all-time favorite)
>>Joel Shepherd's Cassandra Kresnov trilogy, _Crossover_,
>> _Breakaway_, and _Killswitch_ (fascinating world,
>> lots of action)
>>Mike Shepherd's Kris Longknife series
>>Roger Zelazny, _Lord of Light_ (classic adult sf perfectly
>> suitable for teens)
> Kris Longknife?
> Last I checked in on her, she was idly considering
> interspecies sex with a very non-human alien. I mean
> yeah, that's a draw for teen boys, but probably not
> something most parents would be happy for you
> recommending..
What?! That's just ... silly.
> Last I checked in on her, she was idly considering
> interspecies sex with a very non-human alien. I mean
> yeah, that's a draw for teen boys, but probably not
> something most parents would be happy for you
> recommending..
That's a considerable exaggeration of a very minor element
that only appears quite late in the series to date. Any kid
whose parents would object on those grounds has my sincere
sympathy. And any kid reading the series for sexual thrills
is going to be horribly disappointed. It's a mixture of
adventure and growing up, eminently suitable for teens.
Brian
Don Kuenz
Oct 10, 2012, 8:53:53 AM10/10/12
to
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
> Skewing younger, you have Lester del Rey's _Runaway Robot_
_Runaway Robot_ may very well be the first SF I ever read, back there
> Skewing younger, you have Lester del Rey's _Runaway Robot_
in elementary school.
Regarding the OP's original question, _Little Brother_ ( online version
here http://tinyurl.com/55a6qs ) and _Ready Player One_ ( official
website here http://www.readyplayerone.com/ ) both seem promising by
virtue of winning the Prometheus Award and featuring a boy protagonist.
Unfortunately, I can vouch for neither, having not yet read them.
--
Don Kuenz
art...@yahoo.com
Oct 10, 2012, 9:15:05 AM10/10/12
to
On Oct 10, 1:29 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <adkd07F78r...@mid.individual.net>,
Brin.
> In article <adkd07F78r...@mid.individual.net>,
> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>
> >layer to the depiction of alien worlds..
>
> >...I would suggest some fairly
> >recent adult books that might fit the bill. These include Brin's _Startide
> >Rising_....
>
> And _The Uplift War, which has among its protagonists an
> adolescent human male and an adolescent non-human female.
>
> And some chimps, birds, gorillas, 'n' stuff....
I'll bet at least some teens would enjoy The Postman, speaking of
>
> >layer to the depiction of alien worlds..
>
> >...I would suggest some fairly
> >recent adult books that might fit the bill. These include Brin's _Startide
> >Rising_....
>
> And _The Uplift War, which has among its protagonists an
> adolescent human male and an adolescent non-human female.
>
> And some chimps, birds, gorillas, 'n' stuff....
Brin.
tphile2
Oct 10, 2012, 10:06:48 AM10/10/12
to
Danny Dunn series.
Astronaut Chris Godfrey series by Hugh Walters. Terror By Sattelite was my intro to them
The Homer Price and Henry Reed books (not sf but a must read)
Girl Genius of course, the graphic novels as well as the two Agatha H novelizations.
The Three Investigators
Asimovs Lucky Starr series
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Oct 10, 2012, 10:40:53 AM10/10/12
to
On 10/10/12 8:53 AM, Don Kuenz wrote:
> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
>
>> Skewing younger, you have Lester del Rey's _Runaway Robot_
>
> _Runaway Robot_ may very well be the first SF I ever read, back there
> in elementary school.
It was the first SF novel I bought for myself, I know that (Scholastic).
> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
>
>> Skewing younger, you have Lester del Rey's _Runaway Robot_
>
> _Runaway Robot_ may very well be the first SF I ever read, back there
> in elementary school.
Technically, it's also not by Del Rey, but by Paul W. Fairman; Fairman
wrote it for Del Rey who got the byline.
Kip Williams
Oct 10, 2012, 11:40:37 AM10/10/12
to
lal_truckee wrote, On 10/10/12 12:37 AM:
I don't think they'd be missed.
I'm sure they'd not be missed.
(From being put on the list, of course.)
Kip W
rasfw
I'm sure they'd not be missed.
(From being put on the list, of course.)
Kip W
rasfw
William F. Adams
Oct 10, 2012, 11:59:33 AM10/10/12
to
Mad Scientists' Club - Bertrand R. Brinley
Citizen of the Galaxy and other juveniles by Heinlein
Little Fuzzy - H. Beam Piper (avoid Fuzzy Nation at all costs)
Witchworld and other series by Andre Norton
Girl Genius by Kaja and Phil Foglio
would like to add:
The Dark is Rising pentalogy by Susan Cooper
Sword of the Spirits trilogy by John Christopher
Doorways in the Sand and A Dark Travelling by Roger Zelazny
Pern series by Anne McCaffrey
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Earthsea trilogy and The Word for World is Forest by Ursula K. LeGuin
--- if the child is especially mature Lathe of Heaven as well
The Blue Sword and other books by Robin McKinley
True Names and Other Dangers by Vernor Vinge
Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeline L'Engle
The Dying Earth by Jack Vance
and while it's borderline for science fiction, one of my favourite
books from my youth was Hal Gordon's Divers Down! Adventure Beneath
Hawai'ian Seas.
William
William F. Adams
Oct 10, 2012, 12:22:49 PM10/10/12
to
One more to add --- Eliot S! Maggin's _Superman: The Last Son of
Krypton_ which is the best Superman story I've ever read.
Krypton_ which is the best Superman story I've ever read.
Lynn McGuire
Oct 10, 2012, 12:41:51 PM10/10/12
to
http://www.amazon.com/Citizen-Galaxy-Robert-A-Heinlein/dp/1416505520/
and _The Star Beast_
http://www.amazon.com/The-Star-Beast-Robert-Heinlein/dp/1451638078/
_The Tar-Aiym Krang_ by Alan Den Foster:
http://www.amazon.com/Tar-Aiym-Krang-Alan-Dean-Foster/dp/034530280X/
_Ender's Game_ by Orson Scott Card (coming out in
a movie in 2013):
http://www.amazon.com/Enders-Turtleback-Library-Binding-Edition/dp/0613824229/
Goodness, 3,238 reviews on Amazon !
And of course, the Harry Potter books by Rowling.
Lynn
Will in New Haven
Oct 10, 2012, 12:57:25 PM10/10/12
to
On Oct 9, 11:18 pm, PeterM <petermeilin...@gmail.com> wrote:
mentioned have already been recommended elsethread.
--
Will in New Haven
William F. Adams
Oct 10, 2012, 1:21:26 PM10/10/12
to
Others to add:
Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat
While not science fiction, Ace's Fairy Tale books are very good, and
I'd recommend Jane Yolen's _Briar Rose_ very highly (though the girls
will likely enjoy it more).
Really enjoyed Louis L'Amour's _The Last of the Breed_ (perhaps the
aircraft in it is high-tech enough that it will pass muster?)
Ben Bova's Exiles Trilogy perhaps?
Poul Anderson _The High Crusade_ and _Three Hearts and Three Lions_
Hal Clement --- excellent, classic old-school hard science fiction
William
Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat
While not science fiction, Ace's Fairy Tale books are very good, and
I'd recommend Jane Yolen's _Briar Rose_ very highly (though the girls
will likely enjoy it more).
Really enjoyed Louis L'Amour's _The Last of the Breed_ (perhaps the
aircraft in it is high-tech enough that it will pass muster?)
Ben Bova's Exiles Trilogy perhaps?
Poul Anderson _The High Crusade_ and _Three Hearts and Three Lions_
Hal Clement --- excellent, classic old-school hard science fiction
William
Lynn McGuire
Oct 10, 2012, 1:29:23 PM10/10/12
to
On 10/9/2012 10:18 PM, PeterM wrote:
>
>
be a juvenile?
http://www.amazon.com/The-Stars-Destination-Alfred-Bester/dp/1876963468/
Lynn
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Oct 10, 2012, 1:49:16 PM10/10/12
to
On 10/10/12 1:29 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> Would _The Stars My Destination_ by Alfred Bester
> be a juvenile?
>
No. Great book, but not juvie. Gully Foyle doesn't become a decent
> Would _The Stars My Destination_ by Alfred Bester
> be a juvenile?
>
human being until the end of the book, and does some really nasty things
along the way.
Michael Stemper
Oct 10, 2012, 1:58:04 PM10/10/12
to
In article <k54ces$7nd$1...@dont-email.me>, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> writes:
>On 10/10/12 1:29 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> Would _The Stars My Destination_ by Alfred Bester
>> be a juvenile?
>
> No. Great book, but not juvie.
Agreed on both points.
>On 10/10/12 1:29 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> Would _The Stars My Destination_ by Alfred Bester
>> be a juvenile?
>
> No. Great book, but not juvie.
> Gully Foyle doesn't become a decent
>human being until the end of the book,
> and does some really nasty things
>along the way.
and the accepting of responsibility for one's actions. Foyle may have
grown up a little during the story, but he never really accepted any
responsibility. Unless you count "not giving a rat's ass about any
consequences" as accepting responsibility.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.
tphile2
Oct 10, 2012, 2:12:53 PM10/10/12
to
However lets not overlook NON fiction books. SF is supposed to fire the imagination and interest in real science and visa versa.
Some that did it for me as I was growing up.
All the various Time Life, National Geographic and NASA books.
Anything with artwork by Chesley Bonnestell like The Conquest of Space.
The art section of the library held The Collected Works of Buck Rogers, Dick Tracy, Batman, Superman etc
The Movie and artwork sections held books on SF movies, SF and Pulp Art, Horror, etc.
Jacques Cousteau books
There was a really cool illustrated book back in the late sixties about cars of the future,including atomic powered cars, cars that built its own road and all kinds of stuff. Checked that out lots of time.
Some of these titles can be found at discount and bargain book sales.
For fiction, don't forget
Stranger From The Depths
Tom Swift
and the Brains Benton series
Kurt Busiek
Oct 10, 2012, 2:16:41 PM10/10/12
to
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Shawn Wilson
Oct 10, 2012, 2:47:39 PM10/10/12
to
On Oct 9, 8:18 pm, PeterM <petermeilin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I had a patron at my library today ask me to order
> more science fiction aimed at boys. It's his opinion
> that most of what we're seeing for teens these days
> is more fantasy than science fiction, and that it's
> aimed more at girls than boys. I think the former
> claim is more easily defended than the latter, but
> whatever the overall truth is it's a fair criticism
> of my library's YA section.
>
> So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction
> that would appeal to boys at least as much as to
> girls. I'm not overly concerned on that score, I'm
> more interested in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side
> of the request, but "boys vs. girls" would be nice,
> too. I don't care if it's old or new stuff, and
> this kid specifically asked for classic science
> fiction so I've already got some of the Heinlein
> juveniles on the list.
H Beam Piper (all)
> I had a patron at my library today ask me to order
> more science fiction aimed at boys. It's his opinion
> that most of what we're seeing for teens these days
> is more fantasy than science fiction, and that it's
> aimed more at girls than boys. I think the former
> claim is more easily defended than the latter, but
> whatever the overall truth is it's a fair criticism
> of my library's YA section.
>
> So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction
> that would appeal to boys at least as much as to
> girls. I'm not overly concerned on that score, I'm
> more interested in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side
> of the request, but "boys vs. girls" would be nice,
> too. I don't care if it's old or new stuff, and
> this kid specifically asked for classic science
> fiction so I've already got some of the Heinlein
> juveniles on the list.
Larry Niven (with or without Jerry Pournelle) (any)
Isaac Asimov (any)
Eric Flint (Ring of Fire series)
David Drake
Keith Laumer (Retief series, also Bolo)
Poul Anderson (esp Flandry)
Also, even though fantasy
H P Lovecraft (all) (mandatory)
Robert E. Howard (all/Conan) (mandatory)
Terry Pratchett (all)
lal_truckee
Oct 10, 2012, 2:51:29 PM10/10/12
to
On 10/9/12 9:48 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> Well, since you've got Heinlein, in the classic era I would
> also add
Since we're looking at the Golden Age (mine and the genre's seem to
> Well, since you've got Heinlein, in the classic era I would
> also add
overlap considerably) I don't notice a Hal Clement mention in the
thread; although much of Clement depends on an appreciation of the
background science, I've always thought of his "Needle" as a juvenile.
lal_truckee
Oct 10, 2012, 2:55:11 PM10/10/12
to
On 10/10/12 12:23 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>Some new and newish stuff:
Some of the "Jupiter" series are not bad.
>>Some new and newish stuff:
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Oct 10, 2012, 5:01:12 PM10/10/12
to
In article <k54g3i$27s$1...@dont-email.me>,
I don't think it was marketed as such, but yeah clearly YA themes and a YA
protag. (And I read it as a YA..). There's no Clement I know of that's
not suitable for YA. (And _Still River_ has another YA protag, though I
didn't care much for it).
protag. (And I read it as a YA..). There's no Clement I know of that's
not suitable for YA. (And _Still River_ has another YA protag, though I
didn't care much for it).
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Oct 10, 2012, 5:03:40 PM10/10/12
to
In article <k54gaf$27s$2...@dont-email.me>,
And Oppel's _Airborn_ and following, though it's not entirely clear to me
if they are "SF" vs "Fantasy" given the alternate physical laws of the
setting.
if they are "SF" vs "Fantasy" given the alternate physical laws of the
setting.
Howard Brazee
Oct 10, 2012, 6:39:40 PM10/10/12
to
saw blade, at least until I found out he did it for a plot reason.
Preaching safety that I hadn't seen used with people who use saw
blades.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
David DeLaney
Oct 10, 2012, 7:51:06 PM10/10/12
to
Michael Stemper <mste...@walkabout.empros.com> wrote:
>In my opinion, a "juvenile" has as a key parts the maturation process
>and the accepting of responsibility for one's actions. Foyle may have
>grown up a little during the story, but he never really accepted any
>responsibility. Unless you count "not giving a rat's ass about any
>consequences" as accepting responsibility.
Could try also Tunnel Through Time by del Rey, or The Universe Between by
>In my opinion, a "juvenile" has as a key parts the maturation process
>and the accepting of responsibility for one's actions. Foyle may have
>grown up a little during the story, but he never really accepted any
>responsibility. Unless you count "not giving a rat's ass about any
>consequences" as accepting responsibility.
Nourse. Let's see... Jinks' Evil Genius series? Any of several different ones
by Diana Wynne Jones but mainly Archer's Goon? the various Bolo books? If
the boy is a Magic the Gathering fan, any number of the earlier Magic tie-in
novels... we're supposed to be looking for SF, oops. Maybe some Lem? Someone
mentioned Superman: Last Son of Krypton by Elliot S! Maggin. There's a sequel
(ish), S: Miracle Monday. Martin's Wild Cards series? Niven's Known Space
books? The Riddle-Master series, definitely...
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Elaine T
Oct 10, 2012, 7:23:02 PM10/10/12
to
I haven't seen Scott Westerfield's series', the Uglies and Leviathan
mentioned. I haven't read them, but people who have and who like YA
like them.
Zahn's DRAGONBACK series.
--
Elaine T.
Ela...@kethompson.org
mentioned. I haven't read them, but people who have and who like YA
like them.
Zahn's DRAGONBACK series.
--
Elaine T.
Ela...@kethompson.org
tphile2
Oct 10, 2012, 9:36:34 PM10/10/12
to
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:22:49 AM UTC-5, William F. Adams wrote:
> One more to add --- Eliot S! Maggin's _Superman: The Last Son of
>
> Krypton_ which is the best Superman story I've ever read.
but not even close to the best Superman story ever written or drawn. Lets not exclude comic books collected into TPB and Graphic Novel format and fit for library shelves, though that will make a large list of its own.
> One more to add --- Eliot S! Maggin's _Superman: The Last Son of
>
> Krypton_ which is the best Superman story I've ever read.
At the top has to be anything written by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.
Maggin also did the novelization to DCs Kingdom Come which is very good with fleshed out scenes. The audiobook is very well done also.
Go to your local comics store and check out all the SF themed comics.
Michael Stemper
Oct 11, 2012, 8:23:15 AM10/11/12
to
In article <slrnk7c0m...@gatekeeper.vic.com>, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>Michael Stemper <mste...@walkabout.empros.com> wrote:
>>In my opinion, a "juvenile" has as a key parts the maturation process
>>and the accepting of responsibility for one's actions. Foyle may have
>>grown up a little during the story, but he never really accepted any
>>responsibility. Unless you count "not giving a rat's ass about any
>>consequences" as accepting responsibility.
>
>Could try also Tunnel Through Time by del Rey, or The Universe Between by
>Nourse.
_The Universe Between_ and _Psi High and Others_ were both very good
>Michael Stemper <mste...@walkabout.empros.com> wrote:
>>In my opinion, a "juvenile" has as a key parts the maturation process
>>and the accepting of responsibility for one's actions. Foyle may have
>>grown up a little during the story, but he never really accepted any
>>responsibility. Unless you count "not giving a rat's ass about any
>>consequences" as accepting responsibility.
>
>Could try also Tunnel Through Time by del Rey, or The Universe Between by
>Nourse.
juveniles. (I think somebody's already mentioned Psi, but I wanted to
endorse both.)
Anthony Nance
Oct 11, 2012, 8:57:09 AM10/11/12
to
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> On 10/10/12 8:53 AM, Don Kuenz wrote:
>> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Skewing younger, you have Lester del Rey's _Runaway Robot_
>>
>> _Runaway Robot_ may very well be the first SF I ever read, back there
>> in elementary school.
>
> It was the first SF novel I bought for myself, I know that (Scholastic).
>
> Technically, it's also not by Del Rey, but by Paul W. Fairman; Fairman
> wrote it for Del Rey who got the byline.
>
I think I can say the exact same thing all the way through,
> On 10/10/12 8:53 AM, Don Kuenz wrote:
>> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Skewing younger, you have Lester del Rey's _Runaway Robot_
>>
>> _Runaway Robot_ may very well be the first SF I ever read, back there
>> in elementary school.
>
> It was the first SF novel I bought for myself, I know that (Scholastic).
>
> Technically, it's also not by Del Rey, but by Paul W. Fairman; Fairman
> wrote it for Del Rey who got the byline.
>
but substituting _Tunnel Through Time_ for RR.
_Tunnel Through Time_ is also a good one for this thread
(aiming at the younger end of "teen").
Tony
Kip Williams
Oct 11, 2012, 12:21:59 PM10/11/12
to
tphile2 wrote, On 10/10/12 9:36 PM:
re-reading. The artful bastard managed to make Jimmy and Lana into real
characters, and I gave a shit about what happened to them. When did that
ever happen again, even in an imaginary tale?
Kip W
rasfw
> On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:22:49 AM UTC-5, William F. Adams wrote:
>> One more to add --- Eliot S! Maggin's _Superman: The Last Son of
>>
>> Krypton_ which is the best Superman story I've ever read.
>
> but not even close to the best Superman story ever written or drawn. Lets not exclude comic books collected into TPB and Graphic Novel format and fit for library shelves, though that will make a large list of its own.
>
> At the top has to be anything written by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.
I'd like to see Gaiman's. There are two by Moore that I keep handy for
>> One more to add --- Eliot S! Maggin's _Superman: The Last Son of
>>
>> Krypton_ which is the best Superman story I've ever read.
>
> but not even close to the best Superman story ever written or drawn. Lets not exclude comic books collected into TPB and Graphic Novel format and fit for library shelves, though that will make a large list of its own.
>
> At the top has to be anything written by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.
re-reading. The artful bastard managed to make Jimmy and Lana into real
characters, and I gave a shit about what happened to them. When did that
ever happen again, even in an imaginary tale?
Kip W
rasfw
Mark Zenier
Oct 10, 2012, 2:48:26 PM10/10/12
to
In article <3977783e-806b-4799...@googlegroups.com>,
Adult stuff that's going to appeal to male teens:
Brin
Vinge
some Stross (_Singularity Sky_, _Iron Sunrise_, _Halting State_).
Male oriented fantasy:
Glen Cook's Garrett P.I. series
Pratchett's _Mort_, _Eric/Faust_, _Soul Music_.
Young Adult stuff that we've had threads on here and people have found
memorable:
William Sleator.
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
PeterM <peterme...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I had a patron at my library today ask me to order
>more science fiction aimed at boys. It's his opinion
>that most of what we're seeing for teens these days
>is more fantasy than science fiction, and that it's
>aimed more at girls than boys. I think the former
>claim is more easily defended than the latter, but
>whatever the overall truth is it's a fair criticism
>of my library's YA section.
>
>So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction
>that would appeal to boys at least as much as to
>girls. I'm not overly concerned on that score, I'm
>more interested in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side
>of the request, but "boys vs. girls" would be nice,
>too. I don't care if it's old or new stuff, and
>this kid specifically asked for classic science
>fiction so I've already got some of the Heinlein
>juveniles on the list.
>
>
>I had a patron at my library today ask me to order
>more science fiction aimed at boys. It's his opinion
>that most of what we're seeing for teens these days
>is more fantasy than science fiction, and that it's
>aimed more at girls than boys. I think the former
>claim is more easily defended than the latter, but
>whatever the overall truth is it's a fair criticism
>of my library's YA section.
>
>So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction
>that would appeal to boys at least as much as to
>girls. I'm not overly concerned on that score, I'm
>more interested in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side
>of the request, but "boys vs. girls" would be nice,
>too. I don't care if it's old or new stuff, and
>this kid specifically asked for classic science
>fiction so I've already got some of the Heinlein
>juveniles on the list.
>
>I know people have asked similar questions here in
>the past, and I'm going to go looking for those threads,
>but I'm interested in the current opinions as well.
>Anyone have any ideas?
IMHO, YMMV.
>the past, and I'm going to go looking for those threads,
>but I'm interested in the current opinions as well.
>Anyone have any ideas?
Adult stuff that's going to appeal to male teens:
Brin
Vinge
some Stross (_Singularity Sky_, _Iron Sunrise_, _Halting State_).
Male oriented fantasy:
Glen Cook's Garrett P.I. series
Pratchett's _Mort_, _Eric/Faust_, _Soul Music_.
Young Adult stuff that we've had threads on here and people have found
memorable:
William Sleator.
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
Michael Stemper
Oct 11, 2012, 1:22:15 PM10/11/12
to
In article <k548gj$e1g$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> writes:
>On 10/9/2012 10:18 PM, PeterM wrote:
>> I had a patron at my library today ask me to order
>> more science fiction aimed at boys. It's his opinion
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>On 10/9/2012 10:18 PM, PeterM wrote:
>> I had a patron at my library today ask me to order
>> more science fiction aimed at boys. It's his opinion
>> that most of what we're seeing for teens these days
>> is more fantasy than science fiction, and that it's
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> is more fantasy than science fiction, and that it's
>> aimed more at girls than boys. I think the former
>> claim is more easily defended than the latter, but
>> whatever the overall truth is it's a fair criticism
>> of my library's YA section.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> claim is more easily defended than the latter, but
>> whatever the overall truth is it's a fair criticism
>> of my library's YA section.
>> So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction
>> that would appeal to boys at least as much as to
>> girls. I'm not overly concerned on that score, I'm
>> more interested in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> girls. I'm not overly concerned on that score, I'm
>> more interested in the "sci-fi vs. fantasy" side
>> of the request, but "boys vs. girls" would be nice,
>> too. I don't care if it's old or new stuff, and
>> this kid specifically asked for classic science
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> too. I don't care if it's old or new stuff, and
>> this kid specifically asked for classic science
>> fiction so I've already got some of the Heinlein
^^^^^^^
>> juveniles on the list.
>And of course, the Harry Potter books by Rowling.
than fantasy. I'm also trying to imagine a library in the English-speaking
world that wouldn't already have them.
Kurt Busiek
Oct 11, 2012, 2:59:32 PM10/11/12
to
On 2012-10-11 16:21:59 +0000, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> said:
> tphile2 wrote, On 10/10/12 9:36 PM:
>> On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:22:49 AM UTC-5, William F. Adams wrote:
>>> One more to add --- Eliot S! Maggin's _Superman: The Last Son of
>>>
>>> Krypton_ which is the best Superman story I've ever read.
>>
>> but not even close to the best Superman story ever written or drawn.
>> Lets not exclude comic books collected into TPB and Graphic Novel
>> format and fit for library shelves, though that will make a large list
>> of its own.
>>
>> At the top has to be anything written by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.
>
> I'd like to see Gaiman's.
I think it's possible tphile's knee is simply jerking, assuming that
> tphile2 wrote, On 10/10/12 9:36 PM:
>> On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:22:49 AM UTC-5, William F. Adams wrote:
>>> One more to add --- Eliot S! Maggin's _Superman: The Last Son of
>>>
>>> Krypton_ which is the best Superman story I've ever read.
>>
>> but not even close to the best Superman story ever written or drawn.
>> Lets not exclude comic books collected into TPB and Graphic Novel
>> format and fit for library shelves, though that will make a large list
>> of its own.
>>
>> At the top has to be anything written by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.
>
> I'd like to see Gaiman's.
Neil must have written Superman stories and they must be among the best
ever because Neil's good.
Neil's almost never written Superman, as it happens -- Superman has a
couple of cameos in Gaiman stories, but is a lead only one, in GREEN
LANTERN/SUPERMAN: THE LEGEND OF THE GREEN FLAME. It was a script Neil
wrote fairly early in his career, and was intended as the last issue of
ACTION COMICS WEEKLY, so it's a book that has a lot of disparate
characters in it with a story tailored to them all appearing because,
well, it was an anthology comic and they were all appearing in it at
the moment.
There were editorial issues with the script, and it got scrapped, until
Neil was a big name. Then it was pulled back out (or rather, tracked
down, since neither DC nor Neil had a copy of it any more) and drawn by
a variety of artists and published as a hardcover.
It's not bad, and it's got some very nice art, but it's mostly a
curiosity, a project shaped by editorial needs that didn't exist by the
time it saw print. I doubt many people would list it among the best
Superman stories ever.
> There are two by Moore that I keep handy for re-reading.
stories ("Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow," "For the Man Who
Has Everything" and a Superman/Swamp Thing crossover). So you've got
most of them!
Two of the three are indeed often considered among the best Superman
stories ever.
> The artful bastard managed to make Jimmy and Lana into real characters,
> and I gave a shit about what happened to them. When did that ever
> happen again, even in an imaginary tale?
probably a fair number of times other readers might say it happened,
but you might not agree.
For me, those characters have become so real through reading and
writing them that it's hard to separate what stories that exist on
paper that make me feel that way from the stories that simply exist in
my head…
Joy Beeson
Oct 11, 2012, 4:51:12 PM10/11/12
to
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:36:34 -0700 (PDT), tphile2
<tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
> Lets not exclude comic books collected into TPB and Graphic Novel format and fit for library shelves, though that will make a large list of its own.
>
> At the top has to be anything written by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.
On the basis of Groo, I'd say anything by Mark Evanier or Sergio
<tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
> Lets not exclude comic books collected into TPB and Graphic Novel format and fit for library shelves, though that will make a large list of its own.
>
> At the top has to be anything written by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.
Aragones is worth considering.
If you can, get a Groo collection including the issue in which Groo
learns to read.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Oct 11, 2012, 5:32:42 PM10/11/12
to
In article <j8ce78tl0anv6hjma...@4ax.com>,
"Sage, I wish you were on top of the world!". More recent issues seem
a bit preachy at times.
Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:36:34 -0700 (PDT), tphile2
><tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Lets not exclude comic books collected into TPB and Graphic Novel
>format and fit for library shelves, though that will make a large list
>of its own.
>>
>> At the top has to be anything written by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.
>
>On the basis of Groo, I'd say anything by Mark Evanier or Sergio
>Aragones is worth considering.
>
>If you can, get a Groo collection including the issue in which Groo
>learns to read.
>
A good story, but IMHO the best was the 3 issue "Amulet" trilogy.
>On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:36:34 -0700 (PDT), tphile2
><tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Lets not exclude comic books collected into TPB and Graphic Novel
>format and fit for library shelves, though that will make a large list
>of its own.
>>
>> At the top has to be anything written by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.
>
>On the basis of Groo, I'd say anything by Mark Evanier or Sergio
>Aragones is worth considering.
>
>If you can, get a Groo collection including the issue in which Groo
>learns to read.
>
"Sage, I wish you were on top of the world!". More recent issues seem
a bit preachy at times.
Lynn McGuire
Oct 11, 2012, 5:47:27 PM10/11/12
to
am still amazed that ALL the teenage young men
and ladies that I knew were reading the Harry
Potter books in the 2000s. Jerry Pournelle
thinks that J. K. Rowling may have single
handedly saved SF for the future and I find no
reason to disagree with him.
Lynn
Jacey Bedford
Oct 11, 2012, 6:07:43 PM10/11/12
to
In message <adkd07...@mid.individual.net>, "Ted Nolan <tednolan>"
<t...@loft.tnolan.com> writes
>Nourse, in particular _Raiders From The Rings_, _Scavengers In Space_
>and _The Universe Between_. Also, Gilman's _The Rebel of Rhada_.
particularly Rebel of Rhada and Navigator of Rhada have long been
favourites (though I could never get hold of a copy of Star Khan).
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
<t...@loft.tnolan.com> writes
>Well, since you've got Heinlein, in the classic era I would also add
>Norton, in particular _The Zero Stone_ and _Uncharted Stars_ and
>Nourse, in particular _Raiders From The Rings_, _Scavengers In Space_
>and _The Universe Between_. Also, Gilman's _The Rebel of Rhada_.
>Skewing younger, you have Lester del Rey's _Runaway Robot_
I was going to suggest Norton as well and Gilman's Rhada books,
particularly Rebel of Rhada and Navigator of Rhada have long been
favourites (though I could never get hold of a copy of Star Khan).
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
Jacey Bedford
Oct 11, 2012, 6:33:33 PM10/11/12
to
In message <k548gj$e1g$1...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
writes
to support Lucas' (then) new game featuring the cloned white troopers as
the central characters. Aimed at 12 and up but also excellent reading
for adults.
So the first book (Hard Contact) opens up with five troopers who have
all been cloned from the same man and raised by the same Mandalorian
drill sergeant... And within half a page you have five completely
individual characters on the page.
If it wasn't for the appearance of a very young, very inexperienced Jedi
(not one that we know) this might not belong to the Star Wars Universe
at all. As the series progresses it becomes a bit like Rosencrantz and
Guildernstern are Dead in that the central things happening in the main
Star Wars story arc (the battles, the political moves, Order 66 etc.)
happen. Sometimes they involve our heroes, other times they don't.
Sometimes they cause problems Lucas never thought about until Karen came
up with the questions. What do you do with a clone soldier who has been
wounded beyond repair and can't return to the army? Is there such a
thing as retirement when you've been bred to serve, fight and die? What
happens if you fall in love?
So Karen's asking hard questions about self-determination, identity, and
free will, but it's absolutely couched in terms that a twelve year old
boy can grok. At one point in one of the later books the clones (with
the help of the Mandalorian drill sergeant) rescue and hide one of their
number who suffers a head injury and is brain damaged after they
discover he's been scheduled to be euthanased because he's now useless
as a soldier.
I can't recommend these too highly. The only downside is that before
Karen had finished writing the whole series (and there is only her
writing these, so there's great consistency), Lucas used some of her
ideas, brought out Clone Wars and retconned the SW bible to make
Mandalorians peaceful farmers. It pulled the rug out from under this
series completely because Karen's guys had all absconded to Mandalore by
this time - a planet of mercenaries and bounty hunters. She had to walk
away from her contract one book shy of a full set because she'd been
backed into a corner couldn't finish the story.
KAREN TRAVISS:
Hard Contact (November 2004) Book 1 of the Republic Commando series
Triple Zero (February 2006) Book 2 of the Republic Commando series
True Colors (October 2007) Book 3 of the Republic Commando series
Order 66 (September 2008) Book 4 of the Republic Commando series
501st (October 2009) Book 1 of the Imperial Commando series (same
characters only it's not a republic any more)
Cheers
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
writes
>> So I'm looking for suggestions on science fiction
>> that would appeal to boys at least as much as to
>> girls.
Karen Traviss' Republic Commando Star Wars books, specifically written
>> girls.
to support Lucas' (then) new game featuring the cloned white troopers as
the central characters. Aimed at 12 and up but also excellent reading
for adults.
So the first book (Hard Contact) opens up with five troopers who have
all been cloned from the same man and raised by the same Mandalorian
drill sergeant... And within half a page you have five completely
individual characters on the page.
If it wasn't for the appearance of a very young, very inexperienced Jedi
(not one that we know) this might not belong to the Star Wars Universe
at all. As the series progresses it becomes a bit like Rosencrantz and
Guildernstern are Dead in that the central things happening in the main
Star Wars story arc (the battles, the political moves, Order 66 etc.)
happen. Sometimes they involve our heroes, other times they don't.
Sometimes they cause problems Lucas never thought about until Karen came
up with the questions. What do you do with a clone soldier who has been
wounded beyond repair and can't return to the army? Is there such a
thing as retirement when you've been bred to serve, fight and die? What
happens if you fall in love?
So Karen's asking hard questions about self-determination, identity, and
free will, but it's absolutely couched in terms that a twelve year old
boy can grok. At one point in one of the later books the clones (with
the help of the Mandalorian drill sergeant) rescue and hide one of their
number who suffers a head injury and is brain damaged after they
discover he's been scheduled to be euthanased because he's now useless
as a soldier.
I can't recommend these too highly. The only downside is that before
Karen had finished writing the whole series (and there is only her
writing these, so there's great consistency), Lucas used some of her
ideas, brought out Clone Wars and retconned the SW bible to make
Mandalorians peaceful farmers. It pulled the rug out from under this
series completely because Karen's guys had all absconded to Mandalore by
this time - a planet of mercenaries and bounty hunters. She had to walk
away from her contract one book shy of a full set because she'd been
backed into a corner couldn't finish the story.
KAREN TRAVISS:
Hard Contact (November 2004) Book 1 of the Republic Commando series
Triple Zero (February 2006) Book 2 of the Republic Commando series
True Colors (October 2007) Book 3 of the Republic Commando series
Order 66 (September 2008) Book 4 of the Republic Commando series
501st (October 2009) Book 1 of the Imperial Commando series (same
characters only it's not a republic any more)
Cheers
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
Jacey Bedford
Oct 11, 2012, 6:44:26 PM10/11/12
to
In message <4MWHD7Pv...@parkhead.demon.co.uk>, Jacey Bedford
<look...@nospam.invalid> writes
And i was reminded in another thread:
Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan books, particularly Warrior's
Apprentice - but all of them really.
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
<look...@nospam.invalid> writes
Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan books, particularly Warrior's
Apprentice - but all of them really.
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Oct 11, 2012, 7:43:59 PM10/11/12
to
PeterM
Oct 13, 2012, 1:38:57 PM10/13/12
to
Thank you to everyone who replied! I've copied
down all the suggestions and expect to get a
lot of value from them for my own reading,
if nothing else.
A lot of the suggestions are things that would
be cataloged in either the Juvenile or Adult
Fiction sections of my library. Both of them
overlap quite a bit with YA, in practice if
not theory. Especially Juvenile. We've got
the entire Harry Potter series there, for
example, even though by the end they should
have been put in YA.
That doesn't mean I can't recommend the stuff
that's not strictly YA, of course. Our entire
YA section is roughly the size of an SUV, so
our kids are used to going to other sections
of the library to find stuff to read.
I'm not sure which ones I'm going to focus
on yet. It'll depend on what's still in print
or at least easily available, for one thing.
I'll probably also be biased towards books
that no library in our county owns, since we
all do a lot of shipping books back and forth
for holds. So it's hard to say which ones
we'll actually buy. But you've all given me
an excuse to get paid to learn about tons of
great books, and for that I thank you.
Shawn Wilson
Oct 13, 2012, 2:09:41 PM10/13/12
to
On Oct 13, 10:38 am, PeterM <petermeilin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A lot of the suggestions are things that would
> be cataloged in either the Juvenile or Adult
> Fiction sections of my library. Both of them
> overlap quite a bit with YA, in practice if
> not theory. Especially Juvenile. We've got
> the entire Harry Potter series there, for
> example, even though by the end they should
> have been put in YA.
My library (well, not /mine/...) (Mesquite branch, Phoenix AZ) has
> A lot of the suggestions are things that would
> be cataloged in either the Juvenile or Adult
> Fiction sections of my library. Both of them
> overlap quite a bit with YA, in practice if
> not theory. Especially Juvenile. We've got
> the entire Harry Potter series there, for
> example, even though by the end they should
> have been put in YA.
Harry Potter split between the Kids and Teen sections. The used to
have a trilogy that for some bizarre reason had the middle volume in
teen and the 1st and 3rd in adult.
Jacey Bedford
Oct 13, 2012, 2:33:15 PM10/13/12
to
In message <54c35fcb-15a8-4d96...@googlegroups.com>,
PeterM <peterme...@gmail.com> writes
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
PeterM <peterme...@gmail.com> writes
>
>Thank you to everyone who replied! I've copied
>down all the suggestions and expect to get a
>lot of value from them for my own reading,
>if nothing else.
<Snip>
>Thank you to everyone who replied! I've copied
>down all the suggestions and expect to get a
>lot of value from them for my own reading,
>if nothing else.
>But you've all given me
>an excuse to get paid to learn about tons of
>great books, and for that I thank you.
You're welcome. Good luck.
>an excuse to get paid to learn about tons of
>great books, and for that I thank you.
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
Robert Carnegie
Oct 15, 2012, 11:34:46 AM10/15/12
to
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:06:49 PM UTC+1, tphile2 wrote:
> Lets also include The complete collection of Andre Norton novels.
> I can't think of any of hers that should be excluded.
Her science fiction, that is. If it's Norton doing fantasy then
it may have limited appeal for typical young male readers.
For instance, _Android at Arms_, despite the title, veers into
fantasy, and has the central character worrying a lot about
his identity - as I dimly recall. Actually... I don't know how
much time she spent on that one.
YA males may worry about their identity, but they're probably
reasonably confident that they're human...
> Lets also include The complete collection of Andre Norton novels.
> I can't think of any of hers that should be excluded.
Her science fiction, that is. If it's Norton doing fantasy then
it may have limited appeal for typical young male readers.
For instance, _Android at Arms_, despite the title, veers into
fantasy, and has the central character worrying a lot about
his identity - as I dimly recall. Actually... I don't know how
much time she spent on that one.
YA males may worry about their identity, but they're probably
reasonably confident that they're human...
John Park
Oct 21, 2012, 7:38:50 PM10/21/12
to
--John Park
---------------
Janus, a novel
http://chizinepub.com/books/janus.php
Brian M. Scott
Oct 21, 2012, 9:06:11 PM10/21/12
to
On 21 Oct 2012 23:38:50 GMT, John Park
<af...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in
<news:k6212a$661$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca> in rec.arts.sf.written:
> Jacey Bedford (look...@nospam.invalid) writes:
>> In message <adkd07...@mid.individual.net>, "Ted Nolan
>> <tednolan>" <t...@loft.tnolan.com> writes
>>> Well, since you've got Heinlein, in the classic era I
>>> would also add Norton, in particular _The Zero Stone_
>>> and _Uncharted Stars_ and Nourse, in particular
>>> _Raiders From The Rings_, _Scavengers In Space_ and
>>> _The Universe Between_. Also, Gilman's _The Rebel of
>>> Rhada_. Skewing younger, you have Lester del Rey's
>>> _Runaway Robot_
>> I was going to suggest Norton as well and Gilman's Rhada books,
>> particularly Rebel of Rhada and Navigator of Rhada have long been
>> favourites (though I could never get hold of a copy of Star Khan).
fits the request. For that matter, I can't think of any of
his books that I'd recommend to anyone.
Brian
<af...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in
<news:k6212a$661$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca> in rec.arts.sf.written:
> Jacey Bedford (look...@nospam.invalid) writes:
>> In message <adkd07...@mid.individual.net>, "Ted Nolan
>> <tednolan>" <t...@loft.tnolan.com> writes
>>> Well, since you've got Heinlein, in the classic era I
>>> would also add Norton, in particular _The Zero Stone_
>>> and _Uncharted Stars_ and Nourse, in particular
>>> _Raiders From The Rings_, _Scavengers In Space_ and
>>> _The Universe Between_. Also, Gilman's _The Rebel of
>>> Rhada_. Skewing younger, you have Lester del Rey's
>>> _Runaway Robot_
>> I was going to suggest Norton as well and Gilman's Rhada books,
>> particularly Rebel of Rhada and Navigator of Rhada have long been
>> favourites (though I could never get hold of a copy of Star Khan).
> If Norton and Heinlein, why not Wyndham?
Why Wyndham? I can't think of any of his books that really
fits the request. For that matter, I can't think of any of
his books that I'd recommend to anyone.
Brian
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Oct 21, 2012, 11:50:11 PM10/21/12
to
In article <k6212a$661$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca>,
The only things of his I can think of (Triffids, Midwhich Coocoos)
don't seem very teen-boy friendly.
don't seem very teen-boy friendly.
Gene Wirchenko
Oct 22, 2012, 12:50:58 AM10/22/12
to
On 10 Oct 2012 07:23:59 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:
[snip]
>Kris Longknife?
>
>Last I checked in on her, she was idly considering interspecies sex with
>a very non-human alien. I mean yeah, that's a draw for teen boys, but
>probably not something most parents would be happy for you recommending..
Think of the follow-on effects. First, you have to find the
alien. SpaceX Plus?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
<tednolan>) wrote:
[snip]
>Kris Longknife?
>
>Last I checked in on her, she was idly considering interspecies sex with
>a very non-human alien. I mean yeah, that's a draw for teen boys, but
>probably not something most parents would be happy for you recommending..
Think of the follow-on effects. First, you have to find the
alien. SpaceX Plus?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Gene Wirchenko
Oct 22, 2012, 12:55:38 AM10/22/12
to
On 11 Oct 2012 21:32:42 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:
>In article <j8ce78tl0anv6hjma...@4ax.com>,
[snip]
>>On the basis of Groo, I'd say anything by Mark Evanier or Sergio
>>Aragones is worth considering.
>>
>>If you can, get a Groo collection including the issue in which Groo
>>learns to read.
>A good story, but IMHO the best was the 3 issue "Amulet" trilogy.
>"Sage, I wish you were on top of the world!". More recent issues seem
I loved his reaction. ("WAAAH!" Number of A's may vary.)
>a bit preachy at times.
Yes. And the part where Groo wishes that all of his friends were
there. No one shows up. The Sage then suggests he try rewording it.
I loved Rufferto.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
<tednolan>) wrote:
>In article <j8ce78tl0anv6hjma...@4ax.com>,
[snip]
>>On the basis of Groo, I'd say anything by Mark Evanier or Sergio
>>Aragones is worth considering.
>>
>>If you can, get a Groo collection including the issue in which Groo
>>learns to read.
>A good story, but IMHO the best was the 3 issue "Amulet" trilogy.
>"Sage, I wish you were on top of the world!". More recent issues seem
>a bit preachy at times.
there. No one shows up. The Sage then suggests he try rewording it.
I loved Rufferto.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Wayne Throop
Oct 22, 2012, 12:55:43 AM10/22/12
to
:: If Norton and Heinlein, why not Wyndham?
: t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
: The only things of his I can think of (Triffids, Midwhich Coocoos)
When I was a teen boy, I found Wyndham's books friendly enough.
: t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
: The only things of his I can think of (Triffids, Midwhich Coocoos)
: don't seem very teen-boy friendly.
I'd add the Crysalids (aka, Re-Birth).
When I was a teen boy, I found Wyndham's books friendly enough.
Brian M. Scott
Oct 22, 2012, 1:06:47 PM10/22/12
to
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 04:55:43 GMT, Wayne Throop
<thr...@sheol.org> wrote in <news:13508...@sheol.org> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
I found them a bit on the dull side. I wasn't all that keen
on John Christopher, either, but he'd be a better choice.
Brian
<thr...@sheol.org> wrote in <news:13508...@sheol.org> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
on John Christopher, either, but he'd be a better choice.
Brian
Michael Stemper
Oct 23, 2012, 12:49:53 PM10/23/12
to
In article <77789665-71ab-4e39...@googlegroups.com>, Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> writes:
>On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:06:49 PM UTC+1, tphile2 wrote:
>> Lets also include The complete collection of Andre Norton novels.
>> I can't think of any of hers that should be excluded.
>
>Her science fiction, that is. If it's Norton doing fantasy then
>it may have limited appeal for typical young male readers.
>For instance, _Android at Arms_, despite the title, veers into
>fantasy,
Most of her science fiction does, really.
>On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:06:49 PM UTC+1, tphile2 wrote:
>> Lets also include The complete collection of Andre Norton novels.
>> I can't think of any of hers that should be excluded.
>
>Her science fiction, that is. If it's Norton doing fantasy then
>it may have limited appeal for typical young male readers.
>For instance, _Android at Arms_, despite the title, veers into
>fantasy,
> and has the central character worrying a lot about
>his identity - as I dimly recall.
his concern about his identity was due to having transmogrified into
an android or something.
Transmogrification into something completely different is also pretty
common in her work. Two examples that come to mind are transmogrifying
into a greenie in _Judgement on Janus_ and transmogrifying into a wolf
(of sorts) in _Moon of Three Rings_.
(This post more than doubles the number of times that I've ever used
any variants of the perfectly cromulent word "transmogrify".)
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Oct 23, 2012, 2:27:00 PM10/23/12
to
David Johnston
Oct 24, 2012, 3:09:45 PM10/24/12
to michael...@gmail.com
On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:49:53 AM UTC-7, Michael Stemper wrote:
> Transmogrification into something completely different is also pretty
>
> common in her work. Two examples that come to mind are transmogrifying
>
> into a greenie in _Judgement on Janus_ and transmogrifying into a wolf
>
> (of sorts) in _Moon of Three Rings_.
>
It was a wolverine IN SPACE.
> Transmogrification into something completely different is also pretty
>
> common in her work. Two examples that come to mind are transmogrifying
>
> into a greenie in _Judgement on Janus_ and transmogrifying into a wolf
>
> (of sorts) in _Moon of Three Rings_.
>
Jacey Bedford
Oct 24, 2012, 5:55:05 PM10/24/12
to
In message <daa0ypril6u5.ar693hxagvm2$.d...@40tude.net>, Brian M. Scott
<b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes
Day of the Triffids was my gateway book into SF - aged 12. And I loved
the Chrysalids.
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
<b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes
the Chrysalids.
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
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