Recently read - Eddison, Pratchett, Bujold

[A.G.McDowell]

The Worm Ouroboros - I saw a discussion here comparing Eddison and
Tolkien, noticed that I could get Ouroboros free from the web, and
thought it might fill a Classic Fantasy slot in my Kindle-as-library. I
found it less satisfying than Tolkien, because it does not describe a
high civilisation, or even one with any aspiration to any values beyond
bravery in battle. The ending of the book leaves me in the curious
position of saying "I don't care what happens to these people" just as I
finish reading (also "on their own heads be it"). I'm still interested
enough to wonder if I would like the Zimiamvian Trilogy any better, though.

The Dark Side of the Sun - The cover of my edition of this makes it look
exactly like a book in the Discworld series, which it isn't. For all
that, it's interesting enough. There is a nice idea towards the end - a
race that creates intelligent life throughout the galaxy so it can
evolve and offer independent viewpoints. I'd like to see this on a
smaller scale - if we can't meet extra-terrestrial aliens, could we
profit by fostering diverse cultures on one planet?

Captain Vorpatril's Alliance - An immensely entertaining caper novel. I
previously described myself as "moderately discontented". Well, while I
was reading this for the first time I was radiantly happy. Ivan
Vorpatril has previously been described as gifted with an intelligence
he is too lazy, and generally too distracted by lust, to exercise. Here
he is a likeable character, with good reason for not wanting to exert
himself like Miles to stand out - and the lust is tempered by maturity.
I was interested to see Simon Illyan in the wings. It occurs to me that
you can motivate almost any scheme, no matter how bizarre, by putting an
intelligence agency behind it. Here Simon Illyan doesn't push things
along very far, since he doesn't have any real authority at this time,
but he does grease the wheels a bit, apparently out of sheer curiousity.

[Raymond Daley]

"A.G.McDowell" <andrew-...@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:k7llks$mm6$1...@dont-email.me...

> The Dark Side of the Sun - The cover of my edition of this makes it look
> exactly like a book in the Discworld series, which it isn't. For all that,
> it's interesting enough. There is a nice idea towards the end - a race
> that creates intelligent life throughout the galaxy so it can evolve and
> offer independent viewpoints. I'd like to see this on a smaller scale - if
> we can't meet extra-terrestrial aliens, could we profit by fostering
> diverse cultures on one planet?

Ah, you mean the one I describe as "Pratchett rips off Niven and gets away
with it somehow"?

[Jessica]

"Raymond Daley" <raymon...@ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:H7uns.233496$A%.34187@fx26.am4:

>
> Ah, you mean the one I describe as "Pratchett rips off Niven and gets
> away with it somehow"?
>

No, that was _Strata_. DSOTS is a search for ancient percursors, more in
the line of Clarke than anyone else.

[A.G.McDowell]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Side_of_the_Sun picks out Asimov
(I noticed a similarity to the hunt for the Second Foundation, myself)
as well as Niven. I could argue for Andre Norton's Forerunners, and
perhaps we are both thinking about the aliens behind 2001. I suspect
that Pratchett gets away with it because he rips of a large number of
different people, simultaneously. Perhaps he should have been a banker :-).

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:42:56 +0000, "A.G.McDowell"
<andrew-...@o2.co.uk> wrote in
<news:k7llks$mm6$1...@dont-email.me> in rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> The Dark Side of the Sun - The cover of my edition of this
> makes it look exactly like a book in the Discworld
> series, which it isn't. For all that, it's interesting

> enough. [...]

Easily my favorite Pratchett.

Brian

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 15:08:14 -0000, Raymond Daley
<raymon...@ntlworld.com> wrote in
<news:H7uns.233496$A%.34187@fx26.am4> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

If 'somehow' = 'by writing something that bears virtually no
resemblance to Niven's work'.

Or perhaps you're thinking of _Strata_, which might call to
mind _Ringworld_, though the similarities are pretty
generic.

Brian

[Robert Carnegie]

On Saturday, 10 November 2012 13:42:53 UTC, A.G.McDowell wrote:
> The Dark Side of the Sun - The cover of my edition of this makes it look
> exactly like a book in the Discworld series, which it isn't. For all
> that, it's interesting enough. There is a nice idea towards the end - a
> race that creates intelligent life throughout the galaxy so it can
> evolve and offer independent viewpoints. I'd like to see this on a
> smaller scale - if we can't meet extra-terrestrial aliens, could we
> profit by fostering diverse cultures on one planet?

Do y‰ou think we haven't? Although they're all made of
human beings.

In Warren Ellis's _Transmetropolitan_, the enormous
City in the middle of the U.S. has "reservations"
for multiple alternative human cultures, including
from memory Chinese communism, whichever of the ancient
South Americans practiced human sacrifice, and
post-human turn-your-body-into-something-weird.
Maintaining different lifestyles and outlooks is
precisely the point of these.

Robert Silverberg's planet Majipoor setting is
multi-species.

[A.G.McDowell]

On 11/11/2012 07:47, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Saturday, 10 November 2012 13:42:53 UTC, A.G.McDowell wrote:
>> The Dark Side of the Sun - The cover of my edition of this makes it look
>> exactly like a book in the Discworld series, which it isn't. For all
>> that, it's interesting enough. There is a nice idea towards the end - a
>> race that creates intelligent life throughout the galaxy so it can
>> evolve and offer independent viewpoints. I'd like to see this on a
>> smaller scale - if we can't meet extra-terrestrial aliens, could we
>> profit by fostering diverse cultures on one planet?
>

> Do y�ou think we haven't? Although they're all made of

> human beings.
>
> In Warren Ellis's _Transmetropolitan_, the enormous
> City in the middle of the U.S. has "reservations"
> for multiple alternative human cultures, including
> from memory Chinese communism, whichever of the ancient
> South Americans practiced human sacrifice, and
> post-human turn-your-body-into-something-weird.
> Maintaining different lifestyles and outlooks is
> precisely the point of these.
>
> Robert Silverberg's planet Majipoor setting is
> multi-species.

Thanks for the reference. I've come across Majipoor, but not
Transmetropolitan. Yes, we have different cultures - both from different
histories/ethnic groups, and from different professional upbringings.
Deliberately created cultures could be further from the existing
cultures, might be created in an attempt to produce specific desired
qualities in their members, or might be created with random
characteristics simply to find out whether characteristic A produces
characteristic B, or vice versa. One easy way to create a
self-consistent very different culture would be to revive a previous
culture for which there are good records. I suspect that somebody
brought up in Victorian London in the era of Canon Doyle/Sherlock Holmes
would have an interesting perspective on modern society, and would be
interested rather than intimidated or hostile to modern technology. I
wouldn't like to go back too far beyond that, though.

[Jessica]

"A.G.McDowell" <andrew-...@o2.co.uk> wrote in news:k7m00b$lfk$1@dont-
email.me:

> Pratchett gets away with it because he rips of a large number

For certain values of 'rips off' meaning 'pastiches'.

[Jacey Bedford]

In message <k7llks$mm6$1...@dont-email.me>, A.G.McDowell
<andrew-...@o2.co.uk> writes

>Captain Vorpatril's Alliance - An immensely entertaining caper novel. I
>previously described myself as "moderately discontented". Well, while I
>was reading this for the first time I was radiantly happy. Ivan
>Vorpatril has previously been described as gifted with an intelligence
>he is too lazy, and generally too distracted by lust, to exercise. Here
>he is a likeable character, with good reason for not wanting to exert
>himself like Miles to stand out - and the lust is tempered by maturity.
>I was interested to see Simon Illyan in the wings. It occurs to me that
>you can motivate almost any scheme, no matter how bizarre, by putting
>an intelligence agency behind it. Here Simon Illyan doesn't push things
>along very far, since he doesn't have any real authority at this time,
>but he does grease the wheels a bit, apparently out of sheer curiousity.

I loved this. Nice to see Ivan blossom into a hero without losing that
essential Ivan-ness that he's cultivated for many years. Simon Illyan is
a great character, too, and it's lovely to see him post-retirement. He
seems to be enjoying himself while still dabbling in the interests of
'the old firm.' Interesting to see more of Byerly Vorrutyer as well, a
character I've been aware of, but not taken much of an interest in until
now.

In a way I'm glad to see it set before Cryoburn. LMB has never written
the Vorkosiverse in strict chronological order and it makes me wonder
whether there's any room for some fill-in Miles episodes yet.

I hope we're also going to get some post Cryoburn Miles because there's
a lot of potential for political shenanigans with Miles taking on new
responsibilities. Also Miles children have been very two dimensional so
far - barely mentioned in fact - and I'm sure any child of Miles is not
going to be trouble-free. I hope not, anyway.

Cheers

Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford

[David DeLaney]

Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>I loved this. Nice to see Ivan blossom into a hero without losing that
>essential Ivan-ness that he's cultivated for many years. Simon Illyan is
>a great character, too, and it's lovely to see him post-retirement. He
>seems to be enjoying himself while still dabbling in the interests of
>'the old firm.' Interesting to see more of Byerly Vorrutyer as well, a
>character I've been aware of, but not taken much of an interest in until now.

I realized yesterday one can efficiently summarize the novel in an entirely
different way than the timeline does, as "Ivan chooses again, and changes.".

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Raymond Daley]

"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote in message
news:g3fw4fft6901$.5xhkfugf9x3p.dlg@40tude.net...

Monstrous Regiment.
Purely because I get all the military jokes being an ex-serviceman.