Finally read GALACTIC PATROL
Dr Hermes
From October 1937, where
it first appeared as a six part serial in ASTOUNDING, this story has
burned out my adrenal glands. Seriously. Not only is it an exciting
example of classic space opera, it`s written in the breathless E.E.
"Doc" Smith style, where everything is extreme. There are lots of
italics, ellipses, words in capitals followed by exclamation points and
phrases stuck in the middle of a sentence to reinforce just how extreme
things are ("He knew that there was not - nay COULD not - ever be any
escape for such a being!")
With another writer, this overheated style might seem silly or
amatuerish (like some Harlequin romance), but it really works for Smith.
It`s completely consistent for the universe he describes, a future time
when nothing is moderate. Everything that happens in this book is
described as inconceivable, unimaginable, immeasurable, undescribable,
appalling, or intolerable. After a bit, this all seems natural. Smith is
writing about a reality where everything has been cranked up to its
limits.
This as the first of the four Lensman books, to
be followed by GRAY LENSMAN, SECOND STAGE LENSMAN, and CHILDREN OF THE
LENS. When the stories were collected into book form, Smith revised an
earlier book TRIPLANETARY to fit (more or less) into the series and
wrote a prequel FIRST LENSMAN. But it`s better to start with GALACTIC
PATROL and read the series in order, as the heroes not only face an
escalating lineup of menaces but also steadily learn more about the
forces at work behind the universe. Knowing what`s really going on too
early is a Spoiler indeed.
So what is a Lensman, anyhow? Well, these
mysterious superior intellects called the Arisians have thoughtfully
provided a number of their artifacts to select members of various races
throughout the galaxies. The Lens is an attractive jewel worn on a
bracelet, and while its basic function is to provide powerful telepathic
communication to its bearer, its latent possibilities are much greater.
With this ability, the Lensman give the Galactic Patrol a much needed
advantage over the dire threat of the space pirates of Boskone and there
is much action and suspense before the final holocaust.
Our hero is Kimball Kinnison,
who would be a Doc Savage level superhero even without the Lens. He`s
not a perfect saint, having a temper and growing pains, but he`s so
noble and dedicated that you know he will inevitably be the saviour of
the universe no matter what is thrown at him. Leading the campaign
against the Boskone pirate empire, Kinnison takes a lot of damage but
bounces right up, comes up with bold new strategies and keeps learning
how to use his Lens until he gradually evolves himself into a superman.
GALACTIC PATROL has all the
elements which we associate with space opera. Larger than life heroes
and villains, amazing gadgets all over the place, bizarre alien life
forms and colorful alien worlds, plenty of superweapons blowing things
up, last minute escapes and desperate battles. The only thing I didn`t
find is the hero being taken prisoner and escaping after learning the
master plan, but then keeping Kimball Kinnison a captive would be quite
a trick.
One of my favorite Lensmen is Worsel, a
thirty-foot long winged dragon with numerous eyes and limbs. In one
scene, leading his colleagues undercover on his home world, Worsel
bundles them into a car they approprporiate. Smith doesn`t describe the
scene in much detail, but the image of this huge, imposing creature
behind the wheel of a car careening through dark city streets made me
weak with laughter for some reason.
Now, someone reading the Lensmans
for the first time is likely to be reminded of two things. First, to
some extent the Jedi Knights of STAR WARS. But much more similar in
concept is the Green Lantern Corps who have been appearing in DC Comics
since 1959. Founded by a benevolent race of intellectual aliens, the
vast assembly of Green Lanterns come from a diverse selection of alien
races (sentient plants, crystals, insects, even a chipmunk) who were
selected for honesty and fearlesness. The Green Lantern power ring is a
much more blatant device than the Lens, creating green energy which can
manifest itself just about anyway its weilder imagines. I imagine
veteran science fiction fans reading DC comics in the early 1960s must
have smiled nostalgically at the resemblance.
John
"Dr Hermes" <drhe...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8677-3FC...@storefull-2158.public.lawson.webtv.net...
From October 1937, where
it first appeared as a six part serial in ASTOUNDING, this story has
burned out my adrenal glands. Seriously. Not only is it an exciting
example of classic space opera, it`s written in the breathless E.E.
"Doc" Smith style, where everything is extreme. There are lots of
italics, ellipses, words in capitals followed by exclamation points and
phrases stuck in the middle of a sentence to reinforce just how extreme
things are ("He knew that there was not - nay COULD not - ever be any
escape for such a being!")
With another writer, this overheated style might seem silly or
amatuerish (like some Harlequin romance), but it really works for Smith.
It`s completely consistent for the universe he describes, a future time
when nothing is moderate. Everything that happens in this book is
described as inconceivable, unimaginable, immeasurable, undescribable,
appalling, or intolerable. After a bit, this all seems natural. Smith is
writing about a reality where everything has been cranked up to its
limits.
The "set to 11" universe. :)
David Dyer-Bennet
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <dd...@dd-b.net>, <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <noguns-nomoney.com> <www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <dragaera.info/>
Dan Swartzendruber
> Always a pleasure to see people still appreciate the classics.
I just reread Gray Lensman today :)
Sea Wasp
> Always a pleasure to see people still appreciate the classics.
It is to be expected -- in fact, it is NECESSARY, in my Visualization
of the Cosmic All -- that there will always be more to recruit into
the Ranks of Civilization. Welcome, youth.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
http://www.wizvax.net/seawasp/index.htm
Dan Swartzendruber
> David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> > Always a pleasure to see people still appreciate the classics.
>
>
> It is to be expected -- in fact, it is NECESSARY, in my Visualization
> of the Cosmic All -- that there will always be more to recruit into
> the Ranks of Civilization. Welcome, youth.
What, no "callow youth"? Hey, imagine if Mentor was played by Joe
Pesci? "Welcome, yout!"
David Dyer-Bennet
"Callow" shouldn't go with "youth" *in that particular sentence*. Not
in Mentor speak.
Sea Wasp
> Dan Swartzendruber <dsw...@druber.com> writes:
>
>
>>In article <3FCA9281...@wizvax.net>, sea...@wizvax.net says...
>>
>>>David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>>>
>>>>Always a pleasure to see people still appreciate the classics.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is to be expected -- in fact, it is NECESSARY, in my Visualization
>>>of the Cosmic All -- that there will always be more to recruit into
>>>the Ranks of Civilization. Welcome, youth.
>>
>>What, no "callow youth"? Hey, imagine if Mentor was played by Joe
>>Pesci? "Welcome, yout!"
>
>
> "Callow" shouldn't go with "youth" *in that particular sentence*. Not
> in Mentor speak.
Your Visualization is sound on this point, youth. Dan
Swartzendruber of Tellus, listen to that which your comrade and ally
David has told you; think, youth, THINK!
David Cowie
> up, last minute escapes and desperate battles. The only thing I didn`t
> find is the hero being taken prisoner and escaping after learning the
> master plan, but then keeping Kimball Kinnison a captive would be quite
> a trick.
>
Keep reading - that bit comes later.
--
David Cowie david_cowie at lineone dot net
Containment Failure + 411:04
William December Starr
drhe...@webtv.net (Dr Hermes) said:
> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0GALACTIC PATROL has all
> the elements which we associate with space opera. Larger than life
> heroes and villains, amazing gadgets all over the place, bizarre
> alien life forms and colorful alien worlds, plenty of superweapons
> blowing things up, last minute escapes and desperate battles. The
> only thing I didn`t find is the hero being taken prisoner and
> escaping after learning the master plan, but then keeping Kimball
> Kinnison a captive would be quite a trick.
First of all, please stop doing whatever it is that causes all that
"=A0=A0=A0" stuff, thanks. Secondly, how high can Kimball Kinnison
jump? Just put him at the bottom of a pit that's say, one-and-a-half
or two times that high, with smooth sides, a water faucet running in
and a six-inch diameter sewage pipe running out of it. Have guards
stop by every few days to drop food in and make sure he isn't trying
to escape by sealing off the exit pipe and running the water until he
can float out. :-)
-- William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
Mike Van Pelt
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <8677-3FC...@storefull-2158.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
>drhe...@webtv.net (Dr Hermes) said:
>> but then keeping Kimball
>> Kinnison a captive would be quite a trick.
>Secondly, how high can Kimball Kinnison
>jump? Just put him at the bottom of a pit that's say, one-and-a-half
>or two times that high, with smooth sides, a water faucet running in
>and a six-inch diameter sewage pipe running out of it. Have guards
>stop by every few days to drop food in and make sure he isn't trying
>to escape by sealing off the exit pipe and running the water until he
>can float out. :-)
Assuming a spider doesn't short out one of the guard's mind shield
generators! It's happened.
--
To truly appreciate Dilbert, one must read | Mike Van Pelt
it in the orignal Ferengi. What is lost | mvp at calweb.com
in the translation is that the boss is | KE6BVH
always right. -- plopez on slashdot.org
William George Ferguson
>> up, last minute escapes and desperate battles. The only thing I didn`t
>> find is the hero being taken prisoner and escaping after learning the
>> master plan, but then keeping Kimball Kinnison a captive would be quite
>> a trick.
David Cowie <see...@lineone.net> wrote:
>Keep reading - that bit comes later.
Show of hands, how many of us were politely refraining from pointing that
out, figuring the good (well, not if he's the original) Dr. Hermes would
be continuing to read them.
--
"Oh Buffy, you really do need to have
every square inch of your ass kicked."
- Willow Rosenberg
peter wezeman
I was visited by my identical cousin from England, and snippage ensued.
> Our hero is Kimball Kinnison,
> who would be a Doc Savage level superhero even without the Lens. He`s
> not a perfect saint, having a temper and growing pains, but he`s so
> noble and dedicated that you know he will inevitably be the saviour of
> the universe no matter what is thrown at him. Leading the campaign
> against the Boskone pirate empire, Kinnison takes a lot of damage but
> bounces right up, comes up with bold new strategies and keeps learning
> how to use his Lens until he gradually evolves himself into a superman.
>
> GALACTIC PATROL has all the
> elements which we associate with space opera. Larger than life heroes
> and villains, amazing gadgets all over the place, bizarre alien life
> forms and colorful alien worlds, plenty of superweapons blowing things
> up, last minute escapes and desperate battles. The only thing I didn`t
> find is the hero being taken prisoner and escaping after learning the
> master plan, but then keeping Kimball Kinnison a captive would be quite
> a trick.
That comes later. Of course, as you say, the Boskonians find it hard to
KEEP him a captive...
>
> One of my favorite Lensmen is Worsel, a
> thirty-foot long winged dragon with numerous eyes and limbs. In one
> scene, leading his colleagues undercover on his home world, Worsel
> bundles them into a car they approprporiate. Smith doesn`t describe the
> scene in much detail, but the image of this huge, imposing creature
> behind the wheel of a car careening through dark city streets made me
> weak with laughter for some reason.
If memory serves, this takes place on Delgon rather than on Worsel's
home planet of Valentia. It helps that the car is presumably built
for use by the Underlings of Delgon who are similar to Worsel in
size and general configuration, although I do not recall if they
had wings.
Glad to hear that you found and enjoyed one of the greatest and most
influential works of science fiction. I recently completed my set with
an edition of _Second Stage Lensmen_ that has the original illustrations
from the magazine publication (would you believe fedoras?). I would like
to see a uniform edition as it appeared in _Astounding_ without
the behind the scenes add-ons, and with new covers by one
or more of the best present artists. Joe Bergeron has a good style
for this if he is still active, as witness his painting from
_Against the Fall of Night_.
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Sea Wasp
Your Visualization is altogether too limited in this, youth. Kimball
Kinnison, the penultimate of the Arisian design that he was, could not
in the end be held by any prison devised by any mind of less than the
third level of stability. For one of his capacities -- drive, scope,
force -- and his not-inconsiderable physical attributes, the human
expression "Where there's a will, there's a way" is nothing if not
simple fact.
Dan Swartzendruber
> Dan Swartzendruber <dsw...@druber.com> writes:
>
> > In article <3FCA9281...@wizvax.net>, sea...@wizvax.net says...
> > > David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> > > > Always a pleasure to see people still appreciate the classics.
> > >
> > >
> > > It is to be expected -- in fact, it is NECESSARY, in my Visualization
> > > of the Cosmic All -- that there will always be more to recruit into
> > > the Ranks of Civilization. Welcome, youth.
> >
> > What, no "callow youth"? Hey, imagine if Mentor was played by Joe
> > Pesci? "Welcome, yout!"
>
> "Callow" shouldn't go with "youth" *in that particular sentence*. Not
> in Mentor speak.
Hmmm, maybe I mixed two references then?
Dan Swartzendruber
wmgf...@newsguy.com says...
> >On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:07:55 -0500, Dr Hermes wrote:
> >> up, last minute escapes and desperate battles. The only thing I didn`t
> >> find is the hero being taken prisoner and escaping after learning the
> >> master plan, but then keeping Kimball Kinnison a captive would be quite
> >> a trick.
>
> David Cowie <see...@lineone.net> wrote:
> >Keep reading - that bit comes later.
>
> Show of hands, how many of us were politely refraining from pointing that
> out, figuring the good (well, not if he's the original) Dr. Hermes would
> be continuing to read them.
(Raises hand shyly)
Keith Morrison
>> First of all, please stop doing whatever it is that causes all that
>> "=A0=A0=A0" stuff, thanks. Secondly, how high can Kimball Kinnison
>> jump? Just put him at the bottom of a pit that's say, one-and-a-half
>> or two times that high, with smooth sides, a water faucet running in
>> and a six-inch diameter sewage pipe running out of it. Have guards
>> stop by every few days to drop food in and make sure he isn't trying
>> to escape by sealing off the exit pipe and running the water until he
>> can float out. :-)
>
> Your Visualization is altogether too limited in this, youth. Kimball
> Kinnison, the penultimate of the Arisian design that he was, could not
> in the end be held by any prison devised by any mind of less than the
> third level of stability. For one of his capacities -- drive, scope,
> force -- and his not-inconsiderable physical attributes, the human
> expression "Where there's a will, there's a way" is nothing if not
> simple fact.
If nothing else, he could repeat verbatim what Mentor is telling him
and drive his guards insane with the overblown verbiage.
--
Keith
John F. Carr
>Just put him at the bottom of a pit that's say, one-and-a-half
>or two times that high, with smooth sides, a water faucet running in
>and a six-inch diameter sewage pipe running out of it. Have guards
>stop by every few days to drop food in and make sure he isn't trying
>to escape by sealing off the exit pipe and running the water until he
>can float out. :-)
Evil Overlord's note to self #n+1: In addition to a six year old
child, my circle of advisors will include a Heinleinesque
hypercompetent teenage boy, and no eligible girls to distract him.
--
John Carr (j...@mit.edu)
William George Ferguson
>> Secondly, how high can Kimball Kinnison
>> jump? Just put him at the bottom of a pit that's say, one-and-a-half
>> or two times that high, with smooth sides, a water faucet running in
>> and a six-inch diameter sewage pipe running out of it. Have guards
>> stop by every few days to drop food in and make sure he isn't trying
>> to escape by sealing off the exit pipe and running the water until he
>> can float out. :-)
Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net> wrote:
> Your Visualization is altogether too limited in this, youth. Kimball
>Kinnison, the penultimate of the Arisian design that he was, could not
>in the end be held by any prison devised by any mind of less than the
>third level of stability. For one of his capacities -- drive, scope,
>force -- and his not-inconsiderable physical attributes, the human
>expression "Where there's a will, there's a way" is nothing if not
>simple fact.
If you factor in aid from friends and close relatives, the 3rd level
of stability isn't sufficient (as has been demonstrated). Kim doesn't
operate in a vacuum, even in "Galactic Patrol", he's got Van Buskirk,
and Thorndyke, and Henderson, and Worsel, and...
William December Starr
j...@mit.edu (John F. Carr) said:
> Evil Overlord's note to self #n+1: In addition to a six year old
> child, my circle of advisors will include a Heinleinesque
> hypercompetent teenage boy, and no eligible girls to distract him.
I don't know... I can't precisely put my finger on it, but somehow
that feels like it should be filed under "Asking for More Trouble
Than It's Worth."
J.B. Moreno
> Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net> wrote:
> > Your Visualization is altogether too limited in this, youth. Kimball
> >Kinnison, the penultimate of the Arisian design that he was, could not
> >in the end be held by any prison devised by any mind of less than the
> >third level of stability. [...]
>
> If you factor in aid from friends and close relatives, the 3rd level
> of stability isn't sufficient (as has been demonstrated). Kim doesn't
> operate in a vacuum, even in "Galactic Patrol", he's got Van Buskirk,
> and Thorndyke, and Henderson, and Worsel, and...
Yeah, but they don't really count against someone of the 3rd level -- it
took Clarissa and the Unit to find (and thus free) him after Gharlane
(RIP) tossed him out of his home reality.
--
JBM
"Everything is futile." -- Marvin of Borg
Mark Atwood
>
> If you factor in aid from friends and close relatives, the 3rd level
> of stability isn't sufficient (as has been demonstrated). Kim doesn't
> operate in a vacuum, even in "Galactic Patrol", he's got Van Buskirk,
> and Thorndyke, and Henderson, and Worsel, and...
ObSF: The Bujold books. "He's not a man, he's a mob."
--
Mark Atwood | When you do things right,
m...@pobox.com | people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
http://www.pobox.com/~mra
David Dyer-Bennet
> >On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:07:55 -0500, Dr Hermes wrote:
> >> up, last minute escapes and desperate battles. The only thing I didn`t
> >> find is the hero being taken prisoner and escaping after learning the
> >> master plan, but then keeping Kimball Kinnison a captive would be quite
> >> a trick.
>
> David Cowie <see...@lineone.net> wrote:
> >Keep reading - that bit comes later.
>
> Show of hands, how many of us were politely refraining from pointing that
> out, figuring the good (well, not if he's the original) Dr. Hermes would
> be continuing to read them.
<hand>
David Dyer-Bennet
The alligators from the sewers will come in and eat the guards, and
then help him out of the pit. They won't, of course, bother Kimball,
because he'll be mentally controlling them. Letting them eat the
guards will neatly pay off his debt to them.
David Dyer-Bennet
He certainly does use them together in some contexts. But he does it
when he's *not* being friendly and welcoming, so I didn't think it fit
in that particular sentence.
Frank Winans
> (Dr Hermes) wrote
Keith Morrison
>>Evil Overlord's note to self #n+1: In addition to a six year old
>>child, my circle of advisors will include a Heinleinesque
>>hypercompetent teenage boy, and no eligible girls to distract him.
>
> I don't know... I can't precisely put my finger on it, but somehow
> that feels like it should be filed under "Asking for More Trouble
> Than It's Worth."
If it helps, the other term under which this character is known is
"Wesley Crusher".
--
Keith
Dan Swartzendruber
(Even the All Highest quails at the thought)
John F. Carr
Evil Overlord's note to self #n+2: The previous item only applies if
I become an Evil Overlord prior to 1960. Hypercompetent teenage boys
of later eras are not worth the trouble, and I will import the nubile
girls of as many neighboring kingdoms as it takes to keep them
distracted. (Only "nice" girls need apply, because I don't want to
reward Wesleyan behavior.)
--
John Carr (j...@mit.edu)
Dreamer
"John F. Carr" <j...@mit.edu> wrote in message
news:3fccba1a$0$572$b45e...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
Actually, I'm pretty sure that introducing Wesleyans to *naughty* girls
might be the way to go, because I think they lose their powers with their
virginity. Sorta like Amazons, only with more pimples.
ObSFMovie: "What the hell do you think you're doing?" "Well, I thought we'd
start out with a little kissing, and then move on to the fancy stuff."
D
Mark Blunden
> William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> writes:
>>
>> If you factor in aid from friends and close relatives, the 3rd level
>> of stability isn't sufficient (as has been demonstrated). Kim
>> doesn't operate in a vacuum, even in "Galactic Patrol", he's got Van
>> Buskirk, and Thorndyke, and Henderson, and Worsel, and...
>
> ObSF: The Bujold books. "He's not a man, he's a mob."
Hmm, there's an image - Miles Vorkosigan with a Lens and the backing of the
Galactic Patrol...
"Can I be moved to a different Universe, please?"
--
Mark.
* There are scenes in this story which may not be suitable for adults
Mark Blunden
Wouldn't such a concentration of unattached nubile girls merely result in a
variety of hypercompetent teenage boys, rugged heroes,
callous-exteriored-but-good-hearted antiheroes, etc. all turning up
completely by accident and rescuing said nubile girls from your Overlordly
clutches in a series of unlikely coincidences and lucky escapes, with all
the mess and inconvenience this usually entails?
--
Mark.
* No force in the 'verse can stop me!
Jon Meltzer
"Mark Blunden" <m.blunde...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bqijco$1rvtlt$1...@ID-36588.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Hmm, there's an image - Miles Vorkosigan with a Lens and the backing of
the
> Galactic Patrol...
<urk...>
(Fortunately for the Patrol, he wouldn't have passed the physical
requirements ... )
Jon Meltzer
news:<8677-3FC...@storefull-2158.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
> > thirty-foot long winged dragon with numerous eyes and limbs.
Keep reading ... the aliens get even better ...
Mark Atwood
I'm not really impressed that the Lens can't fix those.
I mean, the GL Corp are manned by idiots and designed by morons, but
they did think far enough ahead to design the ring to forcefield
reinforce the wielder's strength & durability.
David Allsopp
Meltzer <jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com> writes
I didn't think there *were* any physical requirements... Of course, in the
Lensverse, it just so happens that all those men that satisfy the mental
requirements are broad-shouldered, narrow-waisted (etc. etc.) hunks.
We never see (say) a Lensman-to-be suffer a crippling childhood accident,
but presumably Mentor is on the case.
This is, of course, a good example of fundamental incompatibility between
universes. There's little or no bioscience in the Lensverse, and no Mighty
Mental Powers in the Vorkosiverse. This makes it very difficult to
seamlessly transplant characters from one to the other.
--
David Allsopp Houston, this is Tranquillity Base.
Remove SPAM to email me The Eagle has landed.
Michael S. Schiffer
news:po6zb.1437$Oe5...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
Neither did Clarissa Kinnison. :-) If Mentor's Visualization of the
Cosmic All requires that Miles be given a Lens, then he'll get one.
One suspects he'd get his Release fairly early, for much the same
reason that he left a trail of broken commanders behind him before
being made Auditor.
(Now I'm having a vision of Miles being swapped in for Kim Kinnison.
He winds up with the same career trajectory, more or less, but Haynes
and Lacy have more ulcers.)
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS
msch...@condor.depaul.edu
Michael S. Schiffer
news:m3zneb5...@khem.blackfedora.com:
> "Jon Meltzer" <jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com> writes:
>> "Mark Blunden" <m.blunde...@ntlworld.com> wrote in
>> message news:bqijco$1rvtlt$1...@ID-36588.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> > Hmm, there's an image - Miles Vorkosigan with a Lens and the
>> > backing of
>> the
>> > Galactic Patrol...
>> <urk...>
>> (Fortunately for the Patrol, he wouldn't have passed the
>> physical requirements ... )
> I'm not really impressed that the Lens can't fix those.
It probably can, if you know what you're doing. The Arisians and
Eddorians are indestructable by physical force, presumably by
mastery of the same mental capabilities that the Lens amplifies in
humans. But those human abilities take a fairly long time (by our
standards, not the Arisians') to develop. Since developing those
capabilities is the major point of the exercise, giving them the
ability through some short circuit (like building force fields or
biological enhancements into the Lens) isn't in the interest of the
Arisians' goals.
Besides, even before that an L2 can stand off-planet and do most of
the grunt work via intermediaries. I'd guess that the physical
standards (which are presumably different from species to species)
are a matter of human politics rather than inherent to the process.
(As with the Academy itself, which purports to be about selecting
Lensmen but in fact mostly just trains the rest of the Patrol.) If
Mentor needed Stephen Hawking to be issued a Lens, though, it would
happen, and the Patrolmen involved would come up with the idea and
rationale apparently on their own.
Michael S. Schiffer
news:Fu5BX8FUNQz$Ew$h...@tqbase.demon.co.uk:
>...
> This is, of course, a good example of fundamental
> incompatibility between universes. There's little or no
> bioscience in the Lensverse,
There's the Phillips Process that lets them regenerate limbs. On
the other hand, until that was developed polio was still a scourge,
so presumably no vaccine for that.
and no Mighty Mental Powers in the
> Vorkosiverse.
It's true that Terrence Cee's telepathy isn't terribly mighty. On
the other hand, a Lens would probably let him do the trick even
without eating a bunch of bananas.
Without the Lens, though, humans don't have Mighty Mental Powers in
Smith's universe, so the Wormhole Nexus isn't distinguishable from
a human population that Arisia hasn't contacted directly. However,
aside from a few tricks like the Phillips Process, it's true the
Nexus is notably more advanced in biology and medicine-- I don't
think Miles would have survived to be born on Kim Kinnison's Earth
(assuming the soltoxin attack happened nonetheless-- zwilniks after
Port Admiral Aral Kosigan, no doubt).
Mark Atwood
>
> Neither did Clarissa Kinnison. :-) If Mentor's Visualization of the
> Cosmic All requires that Miles be given a Lens, then he'll get one.
> One suspects he'd get his Release fairly early, for much the same
> reason that he left a trail of broken commanders behind him before
> being made Auditor.
How many commanders did he break?
He didnt break any in the Academy.
He broke two in _The Vor Game_, but one of them deserved it (Metzof).
He didn't break Illian.
In theory Galani and whats-his-name in _Mirror Dance_ were his
"commanders", but while, um, bending Galani, he didnt break him, and
the other guy managed to sidestep getting broken.
He didn't break either the ambassador or the local impsec guy in
_Cetagandia_, but of course, that was by cutting them out of the
loop...
Michael S. Schiffer
> "Michael S. Schiffer" <msch...@condor.depaul.edu> writes:
>> Neither did Clarissa Kinnison. :-) If Mentor's Visualization
>> of the Cosmic All requires that Miles be given a Lens, then
>> he'll get one. One suspects he'd get his Release fairly early,
>> for much the same reason that he left a trail of broken
>> commanders behind him before being made Auditor.
> How many commanders did he break?
I was exaggerating for effect, following the example of Illyan and
Gregor when they were reflecting on their inability to place him in
ordinary subordinate positions. However, I'd guess that his early
experiences as a new-minted Lensman would result in the sorts of
successes at missions that the commanders didn't know they'd sent
Miles on to make Unattached status the only "safe" option. Miles
would functionally act as a Gray Lensman whether or not they
bothered issuing him Grays (despite his best intentions not to get
into situations where he had to exceed his portfolio), so it's
simpler to let the records reflect reality.
Sea Wasp
I *LIKED* Wesley Crusher. It wasn't his fault that situations kept
arising that allowed him to Save the Universe.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
http://www.wizvax.net/seawasp/index.htm
Sea Wasp
> In article <po6zb.1437$Oe5...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Jon
> Meltzer <jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com> writes
>
>>"Mark Blunden" <m.blunde...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>news:bqijco$1rvtlt$1...@ID-36588.news.uni-berlin.de...
>>
>>
>>>Hmm, there's an image - Miles Vorkosigan with a Lens and the backing of
>>
>>the
>>
>>>Galactic Patrol...
>>
>><urk...>
>>
>>(Fortunately for the Patrol, he wouldn't have passed the physical
>>requirements ... )
>
>
> I didn't think there *were* any physical requirements... Of course, in the
> Lensverse, it just so happens that all those men that satisfy the mental
> requirements are broad-shouldered, narrow-waisted (etc. etc.) hunks.
>
> We never see (say) a Lensman-to-be suffer a crippling childhood accident,
> but presumably Mentor is on the case.
>
Grand Admiral Haynes, still a Lensman despite having lost most of his
limbs.
Mark Blunden
Yes it was. Clearly the only reason such incidents came about is that any
aspect of the Universe in close proximity to Wesley Crusher was driven to
attempted suicide.
--
Mark.
* If the good lord had meant us to walk, he wouldn't have invented
roller skates
Jon Meltzer
"Sea Wasp" <sea...@wizvax.net> wrote in message
news:3FCD247A...@wizvax.net...
> > We never see (say) a Lensman-to-be suffer a crippling childhood
accident,
> > but presumably Mentor is on the case.
> >
>
> Grand Admiral Haynes, still a Lensman despite having lost most of his
> limbs.
Lost in the line of duty; and it was implied that most senior Lensmen (that
is, the ones that survived) suffered similar injuries.
Ross TenEyck
>Dan Swartzendruber wrote:
>> In article <bqhcj...@enews3.newsguy.com>, kei...@polarnet.ca says...
>>>If it helps, the other term under which this character is known is
>>>"Wesley Crusher".
>> (Even the All Highest quails at the thought)
> I *LIKED* Wesley Crusher. It wasn't his fault that situations kept
>arising that allowed him to Save the Universe.
He appeared to have some kind of field around him that caused everyone
around him to be a bumbling idiot; with the result that nobody else
was ever capable of Saving the Day so long as Wesley was around.
Technically, this wasn't his fault either; but since it only manifested
while he was present, the association was difficult not to make.
For the record, in the interval between Wesley heading off to Starfleet
Academy, and becoming a god, I actually found him quite tolerable, and
even enjoyable, on those occasions when he showed up.
And Wil Wheaton has a kick-ass blog. I forget the URL off-hand, but
Google knows all.
--
================== http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~teneyck ==================
Ross TenEyck Seattle, WA \ Light, kindled in the furnace of hydrogen;
ten...@alumni.caltech.edu \ like smoke, sunlight carries the hot-metal
Are wa yume? Soretomo maboroshi? \ tang of Creation's forge.
David Johnston
Yeah it was. He created most of those situations.
J.B. Moreno
> Besides, even before that an L2 can stand off-planet and do most of
> the grunt work via intermediaries. I'd guess that the physical
> standards (which are presumably different from species to species)
> are a matter of human politics rather than inherent to the process.
> (As with the Academy itself, which purports to be about selecting
> Lensmen but in fact mostly just trains the rest of the Patrol.) If
> Mentor needed Stephen Hawking to be issued a Lens, though, it would
> happen, and the Patrolmen involved would come up with the idea and
> rationale apparently on their own.
I'd say the phsysical standards (and everything else) are reallly
guidelines and not rules -- designed more to train the Patrol, and ready
the average Lensman for his work, than as any true filter.
Given the phsyical condition of most Gray Lensmen before Philips (sp?)
gets his regneration system working, it'd be silly to limit it to people
in good physical condition.
(Not that Mentor would need to go through the Patrol if he wanted
Hawkings to be a Lensman).
--
JBM
"Everything is futile." -- Marvin of Borg
Keith Morrison
>> I *LIKED* Wesley Crusher. It wasn't his fault that situations kept
>>arising that allowed him to Save the Universe.
>
> He appeared to have some kind of field around him that caused everyone
> around him to be a bumbling idiot; with the result that nobody else
> was ever capable of Saving the Day so long as Wesley was around.
>
> Technically, this wasn't his fault either; but since it only manifested
> while he was present, the association was difficult not to make.
>
> For the record, in the interval between Wesley heading off to Starfleet
> Academy, and becoming a god, I actually found him quite tolerable, and
> even enjoyable, on those occasions when he showed up.
>
> And Wil Wheaton has a kick-ass blog. I forget the URL off-hand, but
> Google knows all.
Hope he continues to do better than Jonathan Brandis, would-be Crusher
clone from "seaQuest" who offed himself a few days ago.
--
Keith
David Allsopp
writes
Well yes, I know that[1]. Ditto Commandant Hohendorff for that matter.
But when they *received* their Lens, they were mightily-thewed etc. I
was pointing out that we have no information on whether a physically
disabled person can receive a Lens in the first place[2], other than
Mentor's comment to Samms that he should be able to pick out Lensmen in
their cradles.
[1] Hey, don't play "nitpicking the Lensverse" with *me* -- I can spell
"xymolosely polydactile" first time through without thinking about it!
[2] Femaleness not considered a disability of course :-)
Nancy Lebovitz
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <8677-3FC...@storefull-2158.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
>drhe...@webtv.net (Dr Hermes) said:
>
>> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0GALACTIC PATROL has all
>> the elements which we associate with space opera. Larger than life
>> heroes and villains, amazing gadgets all over the place, bizarre
>> alien life forms and colorful alien worlds, plenty of superweapons
>> blowing things up, last minute escapes and desperate battles. The
>> only thing I didn`t find is the hero being taken prisoner and
>> escaping after learning the master plan, but then keeping Kimball
>> Kinnison a captive would be quite a trick.
>
>"=A0=A0=A0" stuff, thanks. Secondly, how high can Kimball Kinnison
>jump? Just put him at the bottom of a pit that's say, one-and-a-half
>or two times that high, with smooth sides, a water faucet running in
>and a six-inch diameter sewage pipe running out of it. Have guards
>stop by every few days to drop food in and make sure he isn't trying
>to escape by sealing off the exit pipe and running the water until he
>can float out. :-)
OBSF: Um, _Have Spacesuit, Will Travel_? There's some story in which
it's made clear that there are simple mechanical devices which will
prevent cell-flooding strategies from working.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Now, with bumper stickers
Using your turn signal is not "giving information to the enemy"
Sea Wasp
> Well yes, I know that[1]. Ditto Commandant Hohendorff for that matter.
> But when they *received* their Lens, they were mightily-thewed etc. I
> was pointing out that we have no information on whether a physically
> disabled person can receive a Lens in the first place[2], other than
> Mentor's comment to Samms that he should be able to pick out Lensmen in
> their cradles.
Well, aside from the Kyle books, of course. But IMCGO, while the
training of Lensmen and the Patrol was needed to provide their
military force with the discipline and physical endurance to prevail
over the Boskonians, there was nothing preventing someone like, say,
Professor X from getting a Lens if they met the mental requirements.
In such a case, Mentor would likely tell one of the L2s "Bring
Professor Charles Xavier here to Arisia.", or he may simply send it
out as a package the way Clarissa's arrived and when the person
receieved it they would Understand.
>
> [1] Hey, don't play "nitpicking the Lensverse" with *me* -- I can spell
> "xymolosely polydactile" first time through without thinking about it!
>
But... can't EVERYONE??
Adam Canning
jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com says...
Until the regeneration therapy turns up.
Scarier is Grey Lensman Ivan Vorpatril.
--
Adam
Ross TenEyck
>David Allsopp wrote:
>> Well yes, I know that[1]. Ditto Commandant Hohendorff for that matter.
>> But when they *received* their Lens, they were mightily-thewed etc. I
>> was pointing out that we have no information on whether a physically
>> disabled person can receive a Lens in the first place[2], other than
>> Mentor's comment to Samms that he should be able to pick out Lensmen in
>> their cradles.
> Well, aside from the Kyle books, of course. But IMCGO, while the
>training of Lensmen and the Patrol was needed to provide their
>military force with the discipline and physical endurance to prevail
>over the Boskonians, there was nothing preventing someone like, say,
>Professor X from getting a Lens if they met the mental requirements.
>In such a case, Mentor would likely tell one of the L2s "Bring
>Professor Charles Xavier here to Arisia.", or he may simply send it
>out as a package the way Clarissa's arrived and when the person
>receieved it they would Understand.
Also, "mighty thews" varies a lot from species to species. Kinnison
was physically a wuss compared to Worsel or Tregonsee; and Nadrek seems
to have been small and weak by human standards. So I don't see any
barrier to a handicapped human becoming a Lensman, if he's got the mental
chops.
Steve Coltrin
> In article <8677-3FC...@storefull-2158.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
> drhe...@webtv.net (Dr Hermes) said:
>
>> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
>
> First of all, please stop doing whatever it is that causes all that
> "=A0=A0=A0" stuff, thanks.
I find that
("message-id"
(".webtv.net>" -9999 nil s))
achieves lossless compression of the Usenet stream. HTH.
--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org WWVBF?
Wal*Mart: Your source for cheap plastic crap imported from China!
Jon Meltzer
"Ross TenEyck" <ten...@alumnae.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:bqlanc$ebq$1...@naig.caltech.edu...
> So I don't see any
> barrier to a handicapped human becoming a Lensman, if he's got the mental
> chops.
That was apparently true in "First Lensman" days (one of the Lensmen was a
_fat lawyer_, even), but there appears to have been a surplus of Lensman job
applicants by the time of "Galactic Patrol". To be even considered one had
to be trustworthy, brave, loyal, friendly, courteous, kind, of mighty
thews, of great mental prowess, and involved in Windows XP project
development since 1990; and the Patrol still turned away qualified
candidates (e.g. "Storm" Cloud from "Master of the Vortex").
Michael S. Schiffer
> news:bqlanc$ebq$1...@naig.caltech.edu...
>> So I don't see any
>> barrier to a handicapped human becoming a Lensman, if he's got
>> the mental chops.
> That was apparently true in "First Lensman" days (one of the
> Lensmen was a _fat lawyer_, even)
Cool, I can qualify. Except for the incorruptibility and sheer
*drive*, I mean.
> , but there appears to have been a surplus of Lensman job
> applicants by the time of "Galactic Patrol". To be even
> considered one had to be trustworthy, brave, loyal, friendly,
> courteous, kind, of mighty thews, of great mental prowess, and
> involved in Windows XP project development since 1990; and the
> Patrol still turned away qualified candidates (e.g. "Storm"
> Cloud from "Master of the Vortex").
Had Cloud been given a Lens, he would have inevitably been
distracted by other matters more directly concerned with the war
against Boskone than atomic vortices, with consequences that would
have ultimately been disastrous for Civilization. With a proper
Visualization, it will be seen that Cloud's exclusion from the
Patrol was ineluctably *necessary*, even as Jill Samms' exclusion
was.
Robert Carnegie
J.B. Moreno <pl...@newsreaders.com> writes
>
>(Not that Mentor would need to go through the Patrol if he wanted
>Hawkings to be a Lensman).
HAWKING, dammit, there is only ONE of him.
Anyway, he and Roger Penrose managed to Visualise the Cosmic
All without any dumb Arisians butting in. (I guess they are grateful
to Einstein, but... how very curious, in the context, that I had a
thought which I cannot complete.)
Robert Carnegie at home, rja.ca...@excite.com at large
--
"Are you sure you want to post?" - my software, every time
Johnny1A
> In article <po6zb.1437$Oe5...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Jon
> Meltzer <jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com> writes
> >
> >"Mark Blunden" <m.blunde...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> >news:bqijco$1rvtlt$1...@ID-36588.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >> Hmm, there's an image - Miles Vorkosigan with a Lens and the backing of
> the
> >> Galactic Patrol...
> >
> ><urk...>
> >
> >(Fortunately for the Patrol, he wouldn't have passed the physical
> >requirements ... )
>
> I didn't think there *were* any physical requirements... Of course, in the
> Lensverse, it just so happens that all those men that satisfy the mental
> requirements are broad-shouldered, narrow-waisted (etc. etc.) hunks.
No, it doesn't _just_ happen. The Arisian breeding program has
side-effects that become somewhat more visible as the penultimate pair
is approached. It's a safe bet that a large percentage of the
Terran/Terran-colony Lensmen, by KK's time, are his distant cousins.
The breeding program is moving toward the (Arisian) ideal of human
perfection, physical and mental.
Also, there have been exceptions. In _First Lensman_ there is a
reference to a fat Lensman, for ex. He's a lawyer, not a field
soldier, but he's a Lensman.
The majority of the Lensmen are drawn out of Patrol ranks, where they
are trained physically for the same reason any military force does so.
Shermanlee
Johnny1A
> David Allsopp wrote:
>
> > Well yes, I know that[1]. Ditto Commandant Hohendorff for that matter.
> > But when they *received* their Lens, they were mightily-thewed etc. I
> > was pointing out that we have no information on whether a physically
> > disabled person can receive a Lens in the first place[2], other than
> > Mentor's comment to Samms that he should be able to pick out Lensmen in
> > their cradles.
>
> Well, aside from the Kyle books, of course. But IMCGO, while the
> training of Lensmen and the Patrol was needed to provide their
> military force with the discipline and physical endurance to prevail
> over the Boskonians, there was nothing preventing someone like, say,
> Professor X from getting a Lens if they met the mental requirements.
> In such a case, Mentor would likely tell one of the L2s "Bring
> Professor Charles Xavier here to Arisia.",
"While Professor Xavier displays a laudable willingness to develop his
mental abilities, and has the requisite drive that of necessity so
exemplifies the wearers of Arisia's Lens, our Visualization of the
Cosmic All does not indicate that his moral and ethical development
are of the requisite calibre to be entrusted with such
responsibilities at this time."
Or so I suspect Mentor would say.
Shermanlee
Sea Wasp
I suppose that depends on what point in Marvel continuity (or lack
thereof) you're looking at. During the period I read, I saw nothing to
cause me to visualize his having any moral or ethical turpitude. There
were some things they stuck in later, but after travesties like
Inferno I stopped reading.
It was meant as an example, though. Basically, if Mentor thinks
someone SHOULD be a Lensman, they WILL get a Lens, one way or another.
So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking some
people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as candidates to send
to Arisia?
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Ross TenEyck
> So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking some
>people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as candidates to send
>to Arisia?
Oddly enough, the first name that popped into my head was Conan.
By the standards of his milieu and culture, he's got enormous moral
integrity; and he's certainly got the mental strength and acuity.
John Carter? Same deal.
I'm not sure what Gandalf would do with a Lens. It's not clear that
he NEEDS one.
Wesley Wyndam-Pryce, as seen in later Angel seasons? Mmm... maybe,
maybe not.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
(Ross TenEyck) wrote:
>Wesley Wyndam-Pryce, as seen in later Angel seasons? Mmm... maybe,
>maybe not.
Oh, no. Much too prone to error, has both a romantic and a sadistic
streak he struggles to keep suppressed, major family issues -- no WAY
he's Lensman material.
Mike Schilling
>
> So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking some
> people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as candidates to send
> to Arisia?
Sethra Lavode.
Hal Mayne.
R. Tang
Might be more interesting to rustle up some candidates who
SHOULDN'T have a Lens.
For example, Bruce Wayne in his current incarnation (though not in
his 1970s incarnation).
Capt. Janeway and Archer (Kirk and Sisko are OK...dunno about
Picard)...
--
-
-Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL][Yes, it IS new]
- http://www.aatrevue.com
Mike Schilling
"R. Tang" <gwan...@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:brsptg$iom$1...@nntp3.u.washington.edu...
> In article <uJlEb.72602$2D3....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>,
> Mike Schilling <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Sea Wasp" <sea...@wizvax.net> wrote in message
> >news:3FE1979C...@wizvax.net...
> >>
> >> So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking some
> >> people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as candidates to send
> >> to Arisia?
> >
> >Sethra Lavode.
> >Hal Mayne.
>
> Might be more interesting to rustle up some candidates who
> SHOULDN'T have a Lens.
>
> For example, Bruce Wayne in his current incarnation (though not in
> his 1970s incarnation).
>
> Capt. Janeway and Archer (Kirk and Sisko are OK...dunno about
> Picard)...
Vlad Taltos (though his new *spoiler* is not entirely unlike one)
Tyrion Lannister
Robert St. Amant
Angel, on the other hand, might make an interesting candidate, though
perhaps he's not smart enough. Certainly he meets the physical
expectations. But perhaps his little personal problem would make him
too great a risk.
--
Rob St. Amant
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~stamant
Michael S. Schiffer
news:lpnzndp...@haeckel.csc.ncsu.edu:
>...
> Angel, on the other hand, might make an interesting candidate,
> though perhaps he's not smart enough. Certainly he meets the
> physical expectations. But perhaps his little personal problem
> would make him too great a risk.
He's also not incorruptible-- much of the show has dealt with his
reaction to temptation, not all directly involving his curse, and he
struggles with it more than a Lensman would be expected to. He'd
probably make a decent space marine, given that he has the strength
to keep up with a Valerian, but if his little sunlight problem
extends to all starlight then maybe not.
Hmm... how about Xander? (Who, if he can't be a Lensman, could
certainly qualify as a Green Lantern given his willingness to get
into melees with demons with no powers, armor or special weapons.)
While he's occasionally been dangerously stupid (notably the IMHO
out-of-character revelation that he was responsible for summoning the
demon in the musical episode), I can't recall his showing any signs
of corruptibility. But my head's fuzzed with a cold right now, so I
may be forgetting something.
Dreamer
"Michael S. Schiffer" <msch...@condor.depaul.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns9455919D62FF...@130.133.1.4...
> Hmm... how about Xander? (Who, if he can't be a Lensman, could
> certainly qualify as a Green Lantern given his willingness to get
> into melees with demons with no powers, armor or special weapons.)
> While he's occasionally been dangerously stupid (notably the IMHO
> out-of-character revelation that he was responsible for summoning the
> demon in the musical episode), I can't recall his showing any signs
> of corruptibility. But my head's fuzzed with a cold right now, so I
> may be forgetting something.
He also tried to have Amy the witch put a love spell on Cordelia for him.
Not without provocation, but still, that would seem like a big no-no.
D
James Nicoll
Definitely GL material then (Consider Universo and Sinestro).
Willow's out as a Lensman: female, corruptable and I think
if she is a lesbian [1] that may cause unwanted bumps in the Arisian
breeding plan. Do they have artificial insemination in that universe?
But she -is- redhaired.
Probably too imaginative to be a GL.
Now Esme Weatherwax or DEATH with a Lens would be amusing.
1: As opposed to a bisexual who happens to sleep with more women than
men.
--
"The Union Nationale has brought [Quebec] to the edge of an abyss.
With Social Credit you will take one step forward."
Camil Samson
Ross TenEyck
>Hmm... how about Xander? (Who, if he can't be a Lensman, could
>certainly qualify as a Green Lantern given his willingness to get
>into melees with demons with no powers, armor or special weapons.)
>While he's occasionally been dangerously stupid (notably the IMHO
>out-of-character revelation that he was responsible for summoning the
>demon in the musical episode), I can't recall his showing any signs
>of corruptibility. But my head's fuzzed with a cold right now, so I
>may be forgetting something.
I'm not sure Xander's will is strong enough. He tends to be swept
along by events, rather than making a plan and following it through.
Consider the wedding -- unless you want to discount it as non-canonical,
a proposition I would be prepared to consider -- Xander was prepared
to go along with the wedding despite having, as we discover, grave
doubts. Then he has a vision of the future, but discovers that the
vision is false; it's still enough to convince him to walk away. A person
with the kind of strength of mind and character to be expected of a
Lensman would either have called off the wedding long ago, or gone
through with it.
David Johnston
<msch...@condor.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
>Hmm... how about Xander? (Who, if he can't be a Lensman, could
>certainly qualify as a Green Lantern given his willingness to get
>into melees with demons with no powers, armor or special weapons.)
>While he's occasionally been dangerously stupid (notably the IMHO
>out-of-character revelation that he was responsible for summoning the
>demon in the musical episode), I can't recall his showing any signs
>of corruptibility.
But then again Kimball Kinnison proved repeatedly that being
dangerously stupid in no way debars someone from being a Lensman.
Ross TenEyck
> Now Esme Weatherwax or DEATH with a Lens would be amusing.
I think Esme would probably decline the Lens as the kind of instrument
that would only cause trouble. And she'd have some sharp words for
Mentor about his little breeding program.
I would be highly interested in hearing that conversation. From a long,
long way away.
Robert St. Amant
Another Buffy/Angel character that comes to mind is the Groosalugg,
Cordelia's boyfriend from the whatever dimension, though he's such a
naive boyscout he'd probably make a better parody of a Lensman than an
actual Lensman. (But Lensmen are to some extent self-parodying.)
Louann Miller
(Ross TenEyck) wrote:
>"Michael S. Schiffer" <msch...@condor.depaul.edu> writes:
>
>>Hmm... how about Xander?
>I'm not sure Xander's will is strong enough. He tends to be swept
>along by events, rather than making a plan and following it through.
Is this a veiled proposition that Brian Boitano should be made a
Lensman?
Louann, who OTOH may just be too easily influenced by show tunes.
Dreamer
"Louann Miller" <loua...@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:r074uv89116tu4982...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:46:05 +0000 (UTC), ten...@alumnae.caltech.edu
> (Ross TenEyck) wrote:
>
> >"Michael S. Schiffer" <msch...@condor.depaul.edu> writes:
> >
> >>Hmm... how about Xander?
>
> >I'm not sure Xander's will is strong enough. He tends to be swept
> >along by events, rather than making a plan and following it through.
>
> Is this a veiled proposition that Brian Boitano should be made a
> Lensman?
Brian Boitano doesn't NEED no stinkin' Lens.
If someone offered him one, he'd stick it in his teeth and bite right
through,
that's what Brian Boitano would do.
D
Steve Coltrin
> So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking
> some people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as
> candidates to send to Arisia?
John Galt.
Squall Leonhart.
Grignr.
Michael S. Schiffer
news:brt3md$59u$1...@naig.caltech.edu:
> "Michael S. Schiffer" <msch...@condor.depaul.edu> writes:
>>Hmm... how about Xander? (Who, if he can't be a Lensman, could
>>certainly qualify as a Green Lantern given his willingness to
>>get into melees with demons with no powers, armor or special
>>weapons.) While he's occasionally been dangerously stupid
>>(notably the IMHO out-of-character revelation that he was
>>responsible for summoning the demon in the musical episode), I
>>can't recall his showing any signs of corruptibility. But my
>>head's fuzzed with a cold right now, so I may be forgetting
>>something.
> I'm not sure Xander's will is strong enough. He tends to be
> swept along by events, rather than making a plan and following
> it through. Consider the wedding -- unless you want to discount
> it as non-canonical, a proposition I would be prepared to
> consider
Me too. Even if he chose to call off the wedding, the Xander I saw
in other episodes wouldn't leave Anya to face the crowd alone.
-- Xander was prepared to go along with the wedding
> despite having, as we discover, grave doubts. Then he has a
> vision of the future, but discovers that the vision is false;
> it's still enough to convince him to walk away. A person with
> the kind of strength of mind and character to be expected of a
> Lensman would either have called off the wedding long ago, or
> gone through with it.
Though Kim kept going back and forth over whether he and Clarissa
should get married, admittedly in part because of Mentor's
criticism of his muddy and loose thinking. A Lensed Xander might
well have seen through the ruse earlier (isn't the Lens a lie-
detector, among other things?), which might have short-circuited
that plot. Kim also had problems with unjustified self-doubt, for
which he was criticized by his superiors. (Clarissa likewise,
denying that she was a real Lensman or that she rated her Grays.)
Not the same sorts of doubts, but then they didn't come from
Xander's background. (And Xander doesn't have to qualify as an L2,
after all.)
Craig Richardson
wrote:
> Willow's out as a Lensman: female, corruptable and I think
>if she is a lesbian [1] that may cause unwanted bumps in the Arisian
>breeding plan. Do they have artificial insemination in that universe?
>
> But she -is- redhaired.
>
> Probably too imaginative to be a GL.
>
> Now Esme Weatherwax or DEATH with a Lens would be amusing.
>
>
>1: As opposed to a bisexual who happens to sleep with more women than
>men.
I was hoping Willow would turn into Anne Heche ("I used to love Oz,
who was male, now I love Tara, who's female - you have a problem with
that?"), but that might have been too nuanced and less of a
message-hook than the characterization they actually used.
--Craig
--
I start to wish Bob Melvin would walk out to the mound, ask Freddy if he
was injured, and then kick him in the balls so he can call in an
emergency replacement from the bullpen --Derek Zumsteg in BP, 5/13/2003
Sea Wasp
> Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net> writes:
>
>
>> So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking some
>>people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as candidates to send
>>to Arisia?
>
>
> Oddly enough, the first name that popped into my head was Conan.
> By the standards of his milieu and culture, he's got enormous moral
> integrity; and he's certainly got the mental strength and acuity.
O_o Dear GOD I never thought of that. By Crom, that would be
something to see! "So my sword can't touch you, spirit? Let's see how
you measure up mind-to-mind with a Cimmerian!"
>
> I'm not sure what Gandalf would do with a Lens. It's not clear that
> he NEEDS one.
>
When Morgoth comes back, he'll need all the help he can get.
Sea Wasp
Buffy from the first few seasons. I don't know about the later ones.
Sea Wasp
> begin Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net> writes:
>
>
>> So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking
>> some people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as
>> candidates to send to Arisia?
>
>
> John Galt.
Too focused on rationality; the lack of emotional involvement
would disqualify him.
> Squall Leonhart.
SQUALLY? C'mon, he's Mr. Angst and indecisiveness.
Wanna go there, I'll put forth Crono and Frog.
James Nicoll
>Steve Coltrin wrote:
>> begin Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net> writes:
>>
>>
>>> So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking
>>> some people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as
>>> candidates to send to Arisia?
>>
>>
>> John Galt.
>
> Too focused on rationality; the lack of emotional involvement
>would disqualify him.
>
>
>> Squall Leonhart.
>
> SQUALLY? C'mon, he's Mr. Angst and indecisiveness.
>
> Wanna go there, I'll put forth Crono and Frog.
Captain Taylor. Just to see what happens.
Michael S. Schiffer
> Buffy from the first few seasons. I don't know about the
> later ones.
I don't know-- did Mentor ever have to deal with a Lensman as
reluctant as Buffy was when first chosen? Even Clarissa buckled down
fairly quickly, despite her own doubts. (Of course, Mentor may
simply have been smoother than the process set up by the shamans, so
that Buffy would have been brought around to the idea that being a
Lensman was her own idea.) Buffy would probably also have to be
Unattached if she were a Lensman at all, since she's got some
problems with obeying authority for any length of time.
Michael S. Schiffer
>>> Squall Leonhart.
>> SQUALLY? C'mon, he's Mr. Angst and indecisiveness.
And you propose Buffy Summers, Miss Teen Angst 1997, 1998, and 1999?
:-) (How many times did she try to quit being a Slayer again?)
J.B. Moreno
> Dreamer <dre...@dreamstrike.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Michael S. Schiffer" <msch...@condor.depaul.edu> wrote in message
> >
> >> Hmm... how about Xander? (Who, if he can't be a Lensman, could
-snip-
> >He also tried to have Amy the witch put a love spell on Cordelia for him.
> >Not without provocation, but still, that would seem like a big no-no.
Just a bit of temptation, if he was really serious about it he'd have
found someone else to do so.
> Definitely GL material then (Consider Universo and Sinestro).
>
> Willow's out as a Lensman: female, corruptable and I think
> if she is a lesbian [1] that may cause unwanted bumps in the Arisian
> breeding plan. Do they have artificial insemination in that universe?
Apparently not, but that's no barrier -- not all lensmen are in the
breeding program.
-snip-
> Now Esme Weatherwax or DEATH with a Lens would be amusing.
Why would DEATH with a Lens be amusing? As for Granny, she hardly needs
it (on the other hand, she's got the incorruptibility down pat, not that
she's not pissed about that).
--
JBM
"Everything is futile." -- Marvin of Borg
Dreamer
<sea...@wizvax.net> wrote:
>> I'm not sure what Gandalf would do with a Lens. It's not clear that
>> he NEEDS one.
>>
>
> When Morgoth comes back, he'll need all the help he can get.
When Morgoth comes back, what will Gandalf need help doing besides waving
his GO VALAR pennant?
Well, okay, they do tend to be big Plains-of-Meggido style battles with
plenty to do for everybody. But one of my first candidates was
Errand/Eriond, until I thought, "He's a bleeding God. What does he want with
a Lens?" Similarly, I'm not clear on how much good one would be against
Morgoth or even Sauron. But then I haven't read the Lensman novels and don't
know exactly how they work or what level of reality they have power over.
D
Dreamer
1g66egt.3bqneb1326e10N%pl...@newsreaders.com, "J.B. Moreno"
<pl...@newsreaders.com> wrote:
> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> Dreamer <dre...@dreamstrike.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Michael S. Schiffer" <msch...@condor.depaul.edu> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> Hmm... how about Xander? (Who, if he can't be a Lensman, could
> -snip-
>>> He also tried to have Amy the witch put a love spell on Cordelia for him.
>>> Not without provocation, but still, that would seem like a big no-no.
>
> Just a bit of temptation, if he was really serious about it he'd have
> found someone else to do so.
I phrased that badly: he *did* have Amy the witch put a love spell on
Cordelia for him. It just didn't work properly. And not long afterwards he
found he didn't need it, so the temptation went away.
D
Steve Coltrin
> I'm not sure what Gandalf would do with a Lens.
Recruit a hobbit to take it back to Arisia, the one place where it can
be destroyed.
(Anybody know the Black Speech for 'lens', offhand?)
Pete McCutchen
> So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking some
>people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as candidates to send
>to Arisia?
Honor Harrington. (Duh! She's practically a Lensman already, what
with her magic treepony.)
Miles Vorkosigan would be, uh, interesting. Maybe a bit too slippery,
but if anybody could talk Mentor into changing his mind, it would be
Miles.
Sam, from LOTR. Not Frodo, because he's not quite incorruptible.
James Tiberius Kirk.
Horatio Hornblower. (No fair pointing out that Hornblower, Kirk, and
Honor are all the same person.)
Gabrielle (Xena's sidekick). Not Xena, though.
Oscar from _Glory Road_. (Got to have at least one Heinlein Hero!)
Raymond Prescott-telmassa
--
Pete McCutchen
how...@brazee.net
Wayne Throop
: Is this a veiled proposition that
: Brian Boitano should be made a Lensman?
When Kimball Kinnison travelled time
To the year three thousand ten,
He fought the evil robot kings
And saved us all again
So what would Kimball Kinnison do
If he were here today,
I'm sure he'd kick an ass or two,
That's what Kimball Kinnison'd do.
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Wayne Throop
: [ ... some stuff including ...] Kim [...]
Ooooh! Ooooh! Kim Possible!
I'm your basic average girl
And I'm here to save the world
You can't stop me 'cause I'm Kim Possible.
"Nothing's impossible for a Possible"
--- Kim's father (who works on missiles for the
government... her mother is, of course,
a world-renouned neurosurgeon)
"Kim Possible, you think your Arisian bauble
is all that... but it's NOT!"
--- Dr. Draken
AND, she's got red hair. Well... maybe more a shade of brownish-red.
Johnny1A
> Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net> writes:
>
> > So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking some
> >people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as candidates to send
> >to Arisia?
>
> By the standards of his milieu and culture, he's got enormous moral
> integrity; and he's certainly got the mental strength and acuity.
Good one!
My definite choices (all males, given Mentor's rules):
Spock (in the Classic series)
Chan Derron (Legion of Space)
Henry Gloval (Robotech)
Matt Dillon (Gunsmoke) (He's already a cop and he's even got a
redheaded girlfriend!)
Buck Rogers (from the 1980s novelizations by
Pournelle/Niven/Sibersack)
Goliath (Gargoyles)
Beren son of Barahir (Tolkien)
Adama and Apollo (Battlestar Galactica) [never mind the rest of the
show, they both show signs of being effectively incorruptible and
highly driven)
Clark Savage Jr.
My provisional choices:
Indiana Jones
Rick O'Connell (The Mummy)
James Kirk (on a good day)
Shermanlee
Johnny1A
> In article <uJlEb.72602$2D3....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>,
> Mike Schilling <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Sea Wasp" <sea...@wizvax.net> wrote in message
> >news:3FE1979C...@wizvax.net...
> >>
> >> So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking some
> >> people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as candidates to send
> >> to Arisia?
> >
> >Hal Mayne.
>
> Might be more interesting to rustle up some candidates who
> SHOULDN'T have a Lens.
>
> For example, Bruce Wayne in his current incarnation (though not in
> his 1970s incarnation).
>
> Capt. Janeway and Archer (Kirk and Sisko are OK...dunno about
> Picard)...
John Star (Legion of Space)
James Bond (any version)
Jim DiGriz
Shermanlee
Dorothy J Heydt
No, but if I were Mentor I would give one to Jay Kalam in a hot
minute.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
J.B. Moreno
> Ross TenEyck wrote:
> > Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net> writes:
> >
> >
> >> So, if you were walking through the multiverses and picking some
> >>people who deserved Lenses, who would you pick as candidates to send
> >>to Arisia?
> >
> >
> > Oddly enough, the first name that popped into my head was Conan.
> > By the standards of his milieu and culture, he's got enormous moral
> > integrity; and he's certainly got the mental strength and acuity.
>
> O_o Dear GOD I never thought of that. By Crom, that would be
> something to see! "So my sword can't touch you, spirit? Let's see how
> you measure up mind-to-mind with a Cimmerian!"
You know, I think that'd work...
Ross TenEyck
>When Morgoth comes back, what will Gandalf need help doing besides waving
>his GO VALAR pennant?
>Well, okay, they do tend to be big Plains-of-Meggido style battles with
>plenty to do for everybody. But one of my first candidates was
>Errand/Eriond, until I thought, "He's a bleeding God. What does he want with
>a Lens?" Similarly, I'm not clear on how much good one would be against
>Morgoth or even Sauron. But then I haven't read the Lensman novels and don't
>know exactly how they work or what level of reality they have power over.
Ah, well, then. To the general public, a Lens is (a) a guaranteed
unduplicatable and unfakable badge given only to guaranteed incorruptible
and trustworthy officers of the law, and (b) a device that grants the
wearer a limited form of telepathy, if he does not already possess it.
In fact, the Lens is those things, but it is also capable of being a
more powerful telepathic and mind-enhancing device if the wearer has
a more powerful mind. To a really powerful mind -- a mind such that
no human can really possess one, since having a mind of such scope
pretty much makes you non-human -- the Lens is a handy but by no means
necessary tool.
Ross TenEyck
>Sam, from LOTR. Not Frodo, because he's not quite incorruptible.
Well, neither is Sam. Sam, unlike Frodo, did not have the Ring
nagging at him and wearing him down for months on end. If he had
been the primary Ringbearer, it's not clear that he would have made
it as far as Frodo did.
I think Tolkien was pretty emphatic that (a) no mortal could have
resisted the temptation of the Ring, in the long run, and (b) Frodo
resisted it as long as any mortal possibly could have.
Sea Wasp
>>In article <3FE23C35...@wizvax.net>, Sea Wasp
>><sea...@wizvax.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Steve Coltrin wrote:
>>
>>...
>>
>>>>Squall Leonhart.
>>>
>
>>> SQUALLY? C'mon, he's Mr. Angst and indecisiveness.
>>
>
> And you propose Buffy Summers, Miss Teen Angst 1997, 1998, and 1999?
> :-) (How many times did she try to quit being a Slayer again?)
>
> Mike
>
She's infinitely cuter than Squall. Not being Arisian myself, I
can be influenced.