Returning Books?
Anne M. Marble
really doesn't like, she returns it to the bookstore. She believes it's the
only way to make her dissatisfaction known. (She writes the reason the book
upsets her on the card when returning the book.) Other fans felt uneasy
about the idea, and one author posted to say that she thought the whole
concept was rude. Some thought it was OK to return the book if you found out
(after starting it) that the back cover copy was misleading or if a "great"
reference book turned out to be sketchy or error-filled but didn't like the
idea of returning books. Of if the author pulled some kind of "plot cheat"
halfway through?
I've returned books if I didn't read them. I can understand returning a book
if you started it and realized it was horrid or dull. But do you feel any
qualms about returning the book after you finish it? Have you ever returned
a book after starting it because you didn't like it? Or because the author
pulled something out of his/her hat that seemed like a cheat?
----
January is Twisted High Fantasy Month at Holly Lisle's Forward Motion for
Writers
Take the challenge -- dare to be different
http://hollylisle.com/
Sea Wasp
>
> Someone on a message board I haunt mentioned that when she reads a book she
> really doesn't like, she returns it to the bookstore. She believes it's the
> only way to make her dissatisfaction known.
I think the only reason you should return a book after purchasing it is
1) It's physically defective (Oooo, look, I get two copies of pages
101-115, but nothing of 116-130!)
2) You made a mistake in purchasing it because either you, or the
person to whom you intended to give it, already has the book
3) Without reading it, you decide -- within a day or so -- that you
really need the money back.
If you take the book home, having paid the money, and then read the
book, and decide to take it back, and demand your money back, you are
then treating the bookstore as a library. We are not libraries. We sell
books. We don't hand them to you to read in the comfort of your home and
then return them.
In modern bookstores, you have comfortable chairs and even a cafe where
you can sit down and peruse the book before purchasing. Do this. It will
save us money (yes, it costs us money to refund your money, as well as
to do the purchase with your credit card the first time -- and this is
aside from the fact that it costs us time, because returns always are
annoyingly time consuming) and you some time and frustration.
--
Sea Wasp http://www.wizvax.net/seawasp/index.htm
/^\
;;; _Morgantown: The Jason Wood Chronicles_, at
http://www.hyperbooks.com/catalog/20040.html
Captain Button
> Anne M. Marble wrote:
>>
>> Someone on a message board I haunt mentioned that when she reads a book she
>> really doesn't like, she returns it to the bookstore. She believes it's the
>> only way to make her dissatisfaction known.
She can write a short letter to the author and/or publisher saying
so and noting that she won't be buying anything by that author/publisher
again.
> I think the only reason you should return a book after purchasing it is
> 1) It's physically defective (Oooo, look, I get two copies of pages
> 101-115, but nothing of 116-130!)
> 2) You made a mistake in purchasing it because either you, or the
> person to whom you intended to give it, already has the book
> 3) Without reading it, you decide -- within a day or so -- that you
> really need the money back.
[ snip ]
I agree with Sea Wasp here. If you buy a book it is yours
and just not liking it is not grounds for returning it.
Books don't come with a "You will like this" guarantee.
If you don't like that risk, you don't have to buy them.
Personally, when I find I've accidently bought two copies of
a book, I just swear at myself and try not to do it again.
The fact that I made a mistake is not the fault of the
bookseller who sold me the book in good faith.
--
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in
tolerance and free speech," - David Brin
Captain Button - but...@io.com
John Hill
> If you take the book home, having paid the money, and then read
> the book, and decide to take it back, and demand your money back, you
> are then treating the bookstore as a library. We are not libraries. We
> sell books. We don't hand them to you to read in the comfort of your
> home and then return them.
As a gift for a friend, I bought a used copy of Timothy Zahn's
_Heir to the Empire_, in hardback. I thought it was a good gift,
because he'd recently been reading a lot of the Star Wars novels.
He hated it, so he gave it back to me. I thought this was rude,
and also I didn't want it, so I snuck it back into his house. He
found it and gave it back again; this went back and forth, etc.
We declared a truce. We took it to a Barnes & Noble, went to the
Star Wars section, and stuck it on the shelf.
This might be some sort of crime, like feeding other people's
parking meters, but IANAL.
JH
Sean O'Hara
>
> I've returned books if I didn't read them. I can understand returning a book
> if you started it and realized it was horrid or dull. But do you feel any
> qualms about returning the book after you finish it? Have you ever returned
> a book after starting it because you didn't like it? Or because the author
> pulled something out of his/her hat that seemed like a cheat?
>
the ending is bad, there was still something about the book that
led me to read that far. When I find that I don't like a book, I
usually realize it by page 100 at the latest, which is soon enough
to return it. If it turns out to be merely okay and not something
I'll ever read again, I throw it on the pile I take to the used
bookstore every few months. But returning a book I've read from
cover to cover is equivalent to stealing in my mind.
Mind you, about a year ago I recall someone claiming they read
books in the bookstore -- not, sample a chapter, but read the
entire book -- and if they didn't like them, they'd put them back
on the shelf. ISTR that fellow got thrashed pretty hard by the
Posters for Intellectual Property Rights Brigade.
--
Sean O’Hara
Now an unemployed college graduate!
“Lucas and Speilberg are the most financially successful filmmakers
of all time because they're the biggest whores.” – William Goldman
Mark Atwood
>
> We declared a truce. We took it to a Barnes & Noble, went to the
> Star Wars section, and stuck it on the shelf.
> This might be some sort of crime, like feeding other people's
> parking meters, but IANAL.
A well known "culture jamming" trick, is to "reverse shoplift"
magazines and other items into stores that dont stock them, causing a
bit of confusion when a clerk tries to ring it up when someone does
buy it.
--
Mark Atwood | Well done is better than well said.
m...@pobox.com |
http://www.pobox.com/~mra
John Hill
> A well known "culture jamming" trick, is to "reverse shoplift" magazines
> and other items into stores that dont stock them, causing a bit of
> confusion when a clerk tries to ring it up when someone does buy it.
But does this actually work, or does the clerk just say, "Oh. Jerks."
I ask this as a concerned jerk.
JH
Michael Ward
"Anne M. Marble" <ama...@abs.net> wrote in message
news:I1o08.28160$Vz3.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Someone on a message board I haunt mentioned that when she reads a book
she
> really doesn't like, she returns it to the bookstore. She believes it's
the
> only way to make her dissatisfaction known. (She writes the reason the
book
> upsets her on the card when returning the book.) Other fans felt uneasy
> about the idea, and one author posted to say that she thought the whole
> concept was rude. Some thought it was OK to return the book if you found
out
> (after starting it) that the back cover copy was misleading or if a
"great"
> reference book turned out to be sketchy or error-filled but didn't like
the
> idea of returning books. Of if the author pulled some kind of "plot cheat"
> halfway through?
>
> I've returned books if I didn't read them. I can understand returning a
book
> if you started it and realized it was horrid or dull. But do you feel any
> qualms about returning the book after you finish it? Have you ever
returned
> a book after starting it because you didn't like it? Or because the author
> pulled something out of his/her hat that seemed like a cheat?
>
I've never returned a book and wouldn't
unless it was damaged or I might exchange
a book that was given to me if I already had it
or wanted something else instead.
But returning a book because you didn't like
it is exceptionally rude. Why not just steel the
book and come back and pay for it if
it turns out to be good.
Mike
Randy Money
>
> Wild-eyed conspiracy theorists insist that on Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:57:41
> GMT, Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net> wrote:
> > Anne M. Marble wrote:
[...]
> Books don't come with a "You will like this" guarantee.
>
> If you don't like that risk, you don't have to buy them.
>
> Personally, when I find I've accidently bought two copies of
> a book, I just swear at myself and try not to do it again.
> The fact that I made a mistake is not the fault of the
> bookseller who sold me the book in good faith.
I agree with you and Sea Wasp on everything but this one point: I don't
have a problem with this instance, and I think most booksellers realize
this happens and are not put out by it. Besides, I, for one, never get
money back when I can exchange.
What amazed me was to hear from my wife that this logic,
> Someone on a message board I haunt mentioned that when she reads a book she
> really doesn't like, she returns it to the bookstore.
is sometimes applied to goods bought in grocery stores. People often
bring back (or not) the unused portions of food that is good expecting
their money back because they found it not to their tastes. (Also, food
with expiration dates that come after the date of purchase.)
Randy M.
Sea Wasp
> Mind you, about a year ago I recall someone claiming they read
> books in the bookstore -- not, sample a chapter, but read the
> entire book -- and if they didn't like them, they'd put them back
> on the shelf.
That would be me, except that if the book gets me to read it to the
end, I MUST have liked it. And I then buy it. Was there someone else who
not only reads books in the store, but will read even books they don't
like TO THE END while in the store?
ISTR that fellow got thrashed pretty hard by the
> Posters for Intellectual Property Rights Brigade.
It's been a very long time since ANYONE's managed to THRASH me. Flame
at me, yes, but to adminster a THRASHING you have to not only win, but
win utterly and decisively. ;)
Sea Wasp
It causes minor confusion in Borders, but only minor; either we can
confirm it's not ours and never was, in which case you may just walk out
with it, or we can determine that it may be ours left over from
something (maybe missed on last inventory) in which case you'll be
charged the most reasonable price we can determine for it.
Heather Garvey
>Captain Button wrote:
>>
>> Personally, when I find I've accidently bought two copies of
>> a book, I just swear at myself and try not to do it again.
>> The fact that I made a mistake is not the fault of the
>> bookseller who sold me the book in good faith.
>
>I agree with you and Sea Wasp on everything but this one point: I don't
>have a problem with this instance, and I think most booksellers realize
>this happens and are not put out by it. Besides, I, for one, never get
>money back when I can exchange.
Yeah, it's not like you've messed up the book. In fact, I'll
be taking back that new Vorkosigan omnibus I bought in hardback because
I thought it was the new book, not repackaged old. I'd forgotten all
about the warning here until I got home. :)
While I'm often grateful for omnibuses when it's also a reissue
of a series you can't find any more (James White's _Sector General_, for
example), some authors like Lackey seem to whip out an omnibus every
few years of books that you can still buy individually. I have no idea
which books of her Bedlam's Bard or SERRAted Edge series I have or need
any more, since there are almost as many omnibuses under different names
as originals.
--
"Shut your noisetube, Taco Human!" Heather Garvey / Raven
-- Invader ZIM ra...@xnet.com
http://www.spinnoff.com/swhc/
Mark Atwood
> John Hill wrote:
> > Mark Atwood wrote:
> >
> > > A well known "culture jamming" trick, is to "reverse shoplift" magazines
> > > and other items into stores that dont stock them, causing a bit of
> > > confusion when a clerk tries to ring it up when someone does buy it.
> >
> > But does this actually work, or does the clerk just say, "Oh. Jerks."
> > I ask this as a concerned jerk.
>
> It causes minor confusion in Borders, but only minor; either we can
> confirm it's not ours and never was, in which case you may just walk out
> with it, or we can determine that it may be ours left over from
> something (maybe missed on last inventory) in which case you'll be
> charged the most reasonable price we can determine for it.
Fair `nuf.
A related trick used by some indy and garage bands is to "shopdrop"
their CDs into record stores. The clerks apparently find them, think
that someone has torn off the strinkwrap, and rewrap them. Then
someone buys them, the clerks dont find them in the DB, but hey, they
have a price code on them,...
What does the band get out of this? Shelf space and exposure. That
shelf space that is bid for by the square inch and buyer bribed by the
kilobuck by the labels. The bands and microlabels that do this trick
consider themselves as coming ahead giving their CDs away to get on
those shelves.
And if the store catches them, what could they charge them with?
David Cowie
>
> And if the store catches them, what could they charge them with?
>
Littering?
--
David Cowie
There is no _spam in my address.
"You had to do WHAT with your seat?"
Terry Austin
"Mark Atwood" <m...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:m3g058y...@khem.blackfedora.com...
And the fine for it would be the cheapest advertising the band could
ever possibly hope for.
Terry Austin
DDR
: I've returned books if I didn't read them. I can understand returning a book
: if you started it and realized it was horrid or dull. But do you feel any
: qualms about returning the book after you finish it? Have you ever returned
: a book after starting it because you didn't like it? Or because the author
: pulled something out of his/her hat that seemed like a cheat?
Nope -- you pays your money, and you takes your chances. Besides, if you
return the book, then the bookstore is the one that loses money. Bookstores
don't need that kind of grief, especially independent book sellers.
In the long run, authors & books thrive on word-of-mouth publicity, so if
I read a book I didn't like, I'd either pan it to my friends & family, or
just not mention it at all.
--
DDR
kesi...@math.ttu.edu
: On Monday 14 January 2002 18:06, Mark Atwood wrote:
:>
:> And if the store catches them, what could they charge them with?
:>
: Littering?
And creating a nuisance.
==Jake
Sea Wasp
A *public* nuisance, thankee kindly. As documented on these 8x10 glossy
photographs with a paragraph on the back of each one describing what
each one is.
rafe von takawa
"Anne M. Marble" <ama...@abs.net> wrote in message
news:I1o08.28160$Vz3.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
I return books all the time. I use amazon's no quibbles return policy quite
a bit, both the UK and US branches. I spend several hundred dollars a year
between both branches. I did this with Perdido Street Station and
Hamilton's latest in their UK editions--neither one thrilled me though both
came highly recommended. I also return at Borders quite a bit. I can't say
they like it but I figure I drop a few thousand a year at my local Borders
so they can deal with it. I simply don't have time to read in the
bookstore and usually have to read a chapter or even two before I decide
it's a keeper. Sometimes I return with idea of waiting for
paperback --seeing the work as not justifying the HC price.
rafe
Lee DeRaud
>kesi...@math.ttu.edu wrote:
>>
>> David Cowie <david_co...@lineone.net> wrote:
>> : On Monday 14 January 2002 18:06, Mark Atwood wrote:
>>
>> :>
>> :> And if the store catches them, what could they charge them with?
>> :>
>> : Littering?
>>
>> And creating a nuisance.
>
> A *public* nuisance, thankee kindly. As documented on these 8x10 glossy
>photographs with a paragraph on the back of each one describing what
>each one is.
You forgot the "circles and arrows".
Lee
rafe von takawa
">
> I return books all the time. I use amazon's no quibbles return policy
quite
> a bit, both the UK and US branches. I spend several hundred dollars a
year
> between both branches. I did this with Perdido Street Station and
> Hamilton's latest in their UK editions--neither one thrilled me though
both
> came highly recommended. I also return at Borders quite a bit. I can't
say
> they like it but I figure I drop a few thousand a year at my local Borders
> so they can deal with it. I simply don't have time to read in the
> bookstore and usually have to read a chapter or even two before I decide
> it's a keeper. Sometimes I return with idea of waiting for
> paperback --seeing the work as not justifying the HC price.
>
> rafe
>
>
I needed to qualify--even though I return a lot I never ask for cash only
credit.
rafe
Sean O'Hara
> We took it to a Barnes & Noble, went to the
> Star Wars section, and stuck it on the shelf.
>
> This might be some sort of crime, like feeding other people's
> parking meters, but IANAL.
>
Loony's books to make it seem like they're selling more.
John Schilling
>John Hill wrote:
>> We took it to a Barnes & Noble, went to the
>> Star Wars section, and stuck it on the shelf.
>> This might be some sort of crime, like feeding other people's
>> parking meters, but IANAL.
>Reportedly $c!3n+010g!$+$ do the same thing with Elron the Half
>Loony's books...
I find myself imagining the scene where Hubbard is hauled before
the Valar and told, "Now you must choose your destiny - will you
be Sane, or will you be Fully Loony?"
Sometime in the early 1950s, I'd guess, and we know how he answered.
--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*schi...@spock.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *
J.B. Moreno
> kesi...@math.ttu.edu wrote:
> >
> > David Cowie <david_co...@lineone.net> wrote:
> > : On Monday 14 January 2002 18:06, Mark Atwood wrote:
> > :> And if the store catches them, what could they charge them with?
> > :>
> > : Littering?
> >
> > And creating a nuisance.
>
> A *public* nuisance, thankee kindly. As documented on these 8x10
> glossy photographs with a paragraph on the back of each one describing
> what each one is.
Would there be twenty seven of these eight-by-ten colour glossy
photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of
each one explaining what each one was and to be used in evidence in
court?
--
JBM
"Your depression will be added to my own" -- Marvin of Borg
Michael Kube-McDowell
<tabul...@aztech.com> carefully left the following thoughtprints
where they could be seen:
>I return books all the time. I use amazon's no quibbles return policy quite
>a bit, both the UK and US branches. I spend several hundred dollars a year
>between both branches. I did this with Perdido Street Station and
>Hamilton's latest in their UK editions--neither one thrilled me though both
>came highly recommended. I also return at Borders quite a bit. I can't say
>they like it but I figure I drop a few thousand a year at my local Borders
>so they can deal with it. I simply don't have time to read in the
>bookstore and usually have to read a chapter or even two before I decide
>it's a keeper. Sometimes I return with idea of waiting for
>paperback --seeing the work as not justifying the HC price.
This is an alien mindset to me--not as a writer, but as a
reader/consumer.
I don't demand my money back when I rent or buy or go to a movie I
later find I don't enjoy, either. I think it's appropriate for the
consumer to bear some risk in the transaction.
A separate issue is that abuse of a generous return policy raises the
costs to all, and for that reason tends to lead to less generous
policies--it's not a sustainable strategy.
K-Mac
--
Michael Kube-McDowell, author and packrat
SF and other bad habits: http://k-mac.home.att.net
Chris Byler
>Sean O'Hara wrote:
>
>> Mind you, about a year ago I recall someone claiming they read
>> books in the bookstore -- not, sample a chapter, but read the
>> entire book -- and if they didn't like them, they'd put them back
>> on the shelf.
>
> That would be me, except that if the book gets me to read it to the
>end, I MUST have liked it. And I then buy it. Was there someone else who
>not only reads books in the store, but will read even books they don't
>like TO THE END while in the store?
I've read books to the end in the store, realized when I finished that
it was a couple hours later than I thought it was, put the book back
on the shelf, and come back to the same bookstore a year later to buy
the paperback (and read it again, usually). If the book was bad
enough that I wouldn't buy it even in paperback, then I probably
wouldn't finish it (particularly not in one sitting in a bookstore,
which is not the best of reading environments).
--
Chris Byler cby...@vt.edu
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the
baker that we expect our supper, but from their regard to their own
interest." -- Adam Smith, _The Wealth of Nations_
Lee Ann Rucker
wrote:
> John Hill wrote:
> > We took it to a Barnes & Noble, went to the
> > Star Wars section, and stuck it on the shelf.
> >
> > This might be some sort of crime, like feeding other people's
> > parking meters, but IANAL.
> >
> Reportedly $c!3n+010g!$+$ do the same thing with Elron the Half
> Loony's books to make it seem like they're selling more.
Close - they sent them back to the publisher (the world's largest
vanity press, wholly owned by the clams) to be resold, and then go buy
them again. There were several reports of books arriving from the
publisher with price stickers from rival stores.
rafe von takawa
"Michael Kube-McDowell" <K-...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:bD418.28459$Vq.278093@rwcrnsc53...
rent. But new U.S. HC's are creeping close to the $30.00 and UK close to
$40.00+. I don't collect movies and but I do collect books. I make no
excuses-- I'm a confessed read-aholic. (If I was broke I'd probably steal
them). I can't sleep or start my day without reading while I can go weeks
without a movie. I'll watch movies I hate like Manon of SPring. But I
can't finish books I don't like. If I purchase too many books like John
Clute's_Appleseed_ or reissued pb reprints in expensive hardcover-- I'm
screwed. If I find an author I like--I buy everything they have and they
become part of me..
How about this rationalization as a reply to the 'sustainable strategy'
problem. By returning what I don't like I can discover new authors and
works I do like. Also doesn't limited shelf time and print run have to
factor here? I could be missing the next Robert Reed, J.R. Dunn or Robert
Charles Wilson. You should also factor the quantity of purchasing I'm
doing as well. The way I see it it's readers like me that sustain many
midlist authors.
rafe
rafe
Jonathan Hendry
"rafe von takawa" <tabul...@aztech.com> wrote in message
news:l5618.4017$8O.674...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
>
> How about this rationalization as a reply to the 'sustainable strategy'
> problem. By returning what I don't like I can discover new authors and
> works I do like. Also doesn't limited shelf time and print run have to
> factor here? I could be missing the next Robert Reed, J.R. Dunn or Robert
> Charles Wilson. You should also factor the quantity of purchasing I'm
> doing as well. The way I see it it's readers like me that sustain many
> midlist authors.
Why don't you find local people you can trade stinkers with? You may get
a book you like, and if you don't like it, you can trade it again. You
could even trade a book for a non-book item.
That would seem simple enough, unless you live in Antarctica.
Jonathan Hendry
"rafe von takawa" <tabul...@aztech.com> wrote in message
news:l5618.4017$8O.674...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> How about this rationalization as a reply to the 'sustainable strategy'
> problem. By returning what I don't like I can discover new authors and
> works I do like. Also doesn't limited shelf time and print run have to
> factor here? I could be missing the next Robert Reed, J.R. Dunn or Robert
> Charles Wilson. You should also factor the quantity of purchasing I'm
> doing as well. The way I see it it's readers like me that sustain many
> midlist authors.
Oh, also, I presume you don't have a big 'to read' pile/stack/shelf? That
would pretty much preclude returning books you don't like, if you don't
get to them for weeks.
Michael Kube-McDowell
Let me note that I wrote my reply before seeing your addendum that you
only ask for credit.
>I'm not sure the analogy works. Consider cost, movies are only $1.50 to
>rent.
$3.79 here. About half the cost of a paperback.
It wasn't meant as an analogy, precisely--or even as direct criticism.
I was just doing some musing-out-loud about my own reactions.
I think movies are, rather than an analogy, another instance in which
the issue of how much risk the buyer/consumer justly ought to assume
emerges.
It also tends to come up in discussions about pirated e-books and
Napster, where I've seen a number of folks at least give voice to a
free-preview-no-risk position.
>But new U.S. HC's are creeping close to the $30.00 and UK close to
>$40.00+. I don't collect movies and but I do collect books. I make no
>excuses-- I'm a confessed read-aholic. (If I was broke I'd probably steal
>them). I can't sleep or start my day without reading while I can go weeks
>without a movie. I'll watch movies I hate like Manon of SPring. But I
>can't finish books I don't like. If I purchase too many books like John
>Clute's_Appleseed_ or reissued pb reprints in expensive hardcover-- I'm
>screwed. If I find an author I like--I buy everything they have and they
>become part of me..
To be sure, I'm no more eager than anyone to drop $40 taking the
family to a disappointing movie, or to order something from Amazon.com
or CDNow that I'll end up wishing I hadn't. The opportunity cost is
particularly easy to see in these areas. Every "bad" book we buy (let
alone read) is a "good" book we miss out on.
>How about this rationalization as a reply to the 'sustainable strategy'
>problem. By returning what I don't like I can discover new authors and
>works I do like. Also doesn't limited shelf time and print run have to
>factor here? I could be missing the next Robert Reed, J.R. Dunn or Robert
>Charles Wilson. You should also factor the quantity of purchasing I'm
>doing as well. The way I see it it's readers like me that sustain many
>midlist authors.
I'm not sure there are enough of us left to constitute a "many."
<rueful g>
I'm glad you're out there, reading and caring about what you're
reading. I wish there were a couple of hundred thousand folks as
deeply invested in the field as you clearly are. I'm just personally
uncomfortable with treating books-not-to-my-taste like defective
toasters. The line, for me, is somewhere between returning something
received as a gift (okay) and returning something I bought myself and
read last night (not comfortable).
Best,
rafe von takawa
> would pretty much preclude returning books you don't like, if you don't
> get to them for weeks.
>
I'm not sure what you mean here. I have piles everywhere in what I think of
as -'to be read'--bathroom, basement, office,car, coat, work, etc. Large
piles of medicore and ho-hum only increases my returns. I not only mail
order from :amazon.com. amazon.co.uk, bookfinder.com, addall/used.com,
hamilton,com and half.com--I frequent several local Borders and Barnes and
Nobles--several times a week.
To give you an example of this weeks purchases
Dennis Danvers _The Watch_ (hard cover) The cover said it features Peter
Kroptokin favorite of mine. After three chapters it's a definite keeper.
Methinks Danvers should stay in softcover.
Patrick O'leary --The Gift and The Impossible Bird (hardcover and
trade)--both are keepers. His latest book convinced me to buy the former.
Bought something on lark while scanning the Dr Who section called
_Technomage Wars_ (paperback) by Austin ?. It sounded interesting from the
backcover, but it's a clunker --and it's headed back.
I took back a $35.00 hardcover of the Silmarillion. This text reads like
an epic poem or scripture in prose-- I found myself wanting to mark it up
with pencil. I just couldn't do it-- the HC edition is too pretty. Still
with the money I saved I went and ordered Egan's latest from Amazon.co.uk
rafe von takawa
> Why don't you find local people you can trade stinkers with? You may get
> a book you like, and if you don't like it, you can trade it again. You
> could even trade a book for a non-book item.
>
> That would seem simple enough, unless you live in Antarctica.
>
>
>
Wow--that's kind of glib and nasty.
eamonn clarke
"If, on a winter's night, a traveller"
Italo Calvino
Keith F. Lynch
defective, e.g. it fell apart on the first reading, or was missing
a bunch of pages.
--
Keith F. Lynch - k...@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail (spam) is not acceptable. Please do not send me
HTML, "rich text," or attachments, as all such email is discarded unread.
Judith Trummer
> <tabul...@aztech.com> carefully left the following thoughtprints
> where they could be seen:
>>I return books all the time. I use amazon's no quibbles return policy quite
>>a bit, both the UK and US branches.
Don't you pay a great deal in postage doing that?
rafe von takawa
"Judith Trummer" <ki...@shell.core.com> wrote in message
news:3c490b97$0$43574$272e...@news.execpc.com...
No. If the book is damaged, in some way, amazon.co.uk will take it back no
quibbles. When I mail order new books I try to be sure that it's a definite
keeper. I save my purchasing experiments for walk in stores like Borders.
They always take them back, if I don't like them, but I always return them
in immaculate condition and always ask for credit never cash. My rule is if
it isn't clicking after one chapter it goes back.
My biggest problems have been with Half.com where sellers advertise a book
as new and what I receive is a yellowed spine crumpled mess. Still I've
always received my money back, but half.com's process can take a month to
finally credit your account. But I should emphasize they've always come
through--so far.
rafe
Kevin Robinson
> I've never returned any book to any store, unless it was grossly
> defective, e.g. it fell apart on the first reading, or was missing
> a bunch of pages.
As a 20+-year bookseller, I don't have any qualms about a customer
occasionally returning a book for a refund. Our store won't give
cash or charge card credit if the return is after 30 days. If we
handsell an author's book, and after a few chapters you decide it
isn't for you, of course we'd like you to exchange it for something
that is more to your taste. That is the whole point of dealing
with an actual bookseller, rather than Ed's Bait & Tire Shop
(we sell books, too.) If you familiarize yourself with the shop's
returns/exchange policy, keep your receipts, and put yourself on
the kind of "honor system" that most posters seem to hold to -
("if I finished it, I'll keep it", frex), returns are a snap.
Yes, they take time, and cost us some, but you've made a trip to
the store, and may wind up buying twice what you've returned.
We twig to those who abuse the privilege, I assure you.
Don't forget, sometimes popular books are in short supply from the
publishers or wholesalers, especially during the holidays. If
you walked into the store with a unread copy of such a book, I
can almost immediately get it into the hands of another customer
who has requested it. So if your Aunt Hilda gave you a copy of
the new book all of Oprah's fans are trying to get, call your
local shop & arrange an exchange for what you want. It can
make us look good.
A new circle of hell should be built for people who special-order
books their local store does not carry, and then tries to return
or exchange them. The store is often stuck with that book, because
it may not be able to return it for credit with the publisher or
distributor, unless it is defective. Regular customers are often
cut some slack, though.
Kevin Robinson
If you've had a book too long to return it, you can always
recover part of the price by selling it yourself, or selling
or trading it to a bookseller who carries used books.
FrankieOx
>
>No. If the book is damaged, in some way, amazon.co.uk will take it back
>no
>quibbles. When I mail order new books I try to be sure that it's a definite
>keeper. I save my purchasing experiments for walk in stores like Borders.
>They always take them back, if I don't like them, but I always return them
>in immaculate condition and always ask for credit never cash. My rule is
>if
>it isn't clicking after one chapter it goes back.
So you only read one chapter of a book before you decide to return it? You
probably should've stated that in your original post (along with the asking for
credit, never cash back part), because that's a lot more palatable than reading
an entire book and then returning it. (I'd hate to think of some of the books
I would've missed out on based on the first chapter, though, like _Bridge of
Birds_, but that's another issue.)
Still, I find it odd that for someone who reads as much as you do (and the
amount of money you spend, while apparently not having such an unmanageable
to-read pile that the return date passes before you can get to the book to find
out if you want to keep it, also suggests that you read at least moderately
fast), you don't have time to read/skim one chapter in the bookstore before you
buy. And time is saved later by the fact you don't have to go back and return
the book.
Mysterious Galaxy
> Wild-eyed conspiracy theorists insist that on Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:57:41
> [ snip ]
>
> I agree with Sea Wasp here. If you buy a book it is yours
> and just not liking it is not grounds for returning it.
>
> Books don't come with a "You will like this" guarantee.
>
> If you don't like that risk, you don't have to buy them.
>
> Personally, when I find I've accidently bought two copies of
> a book, I just swear at myself and try not to do it again.
> The fact that I made a mistake is not the fault of the
> bookseller who sold me the book in good faith.
Our return policy is that customers can return books for any reason,
including just being unhappy with the purchase. This goes double if a
staff member recommends the book as a handsell, and we've misjudged
the fit of the reader and the book. :)
And when even staff members who should know better are guilty of
buying the same book twice, we certainly aren't going to fret when a
customer does.<g>
Maryelizabeth
*******************************************************************
Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747
7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775
San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747
http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email:
mgb...@mystgalaxy.com
*******************************************************************
Jeffrey C. Dege
>Our return policy is that customers can return books for any reason,
>including just being unhappy with the purchase.
As it should be.
So long as the publisher credits returned or stripped books, the bookstore
should accept customer returns.
--
I wake up each morning determined to change the World...
and also to have one hell of a good time.
Sometimes that makes planning the day a little difficult.
-- E.B. White
Keith F. Lynch
> If you've had a book too long to return it, you can always recover
> part of the price by selling it yourself, or selling or trading it
> to a bookseller who carries used books.
Yes. I'm always surprised by authors who look askance at markets in
used books, as if they were somehow being cheated of their royalties.
The fact that books can be resold is part of the reason people are
willing to buy them in the first place, and to pay so much for them.
Used book sales are how many people discover "new" authors they're not
willing to risk $7 or more on. They may then go on to buy all the
author's other books new. Maybe even in hardback.
phil hunt
>Kevin Robinson <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> If you've had a book too long to return it, you can always recover
>> part of the price by selling it yourself, or selling or trading it
>> to a bookseller who carries used books.
>
>Yes. I'm always surprised by authors who look askance at markets in
>used books, as if they were somehow being cheated of their royalties.
Presumably they'd also disapprove of libraries?
--
===== Philip Hunt ===== ph...@comuno.freeserve.co.uk =====
One OS to rule them all, one OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Redmond, where the Shadows lie.
Joel Rosenberg
> On 22 Jan 2002 00:08:43 -0500, Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >Kevin Robinson <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >> If you've had a book too long to return it, you can always recover
> >> part of the price by selling it yourself, or selling or trading it
> >> to a bookseller who carries used books.
> >
> >Yes. I'm always surprised by authors who look askance at markets in
> >used books, as if they were somehow being cheated of their royalties.
>
> Presumably they'd also disapprove of libraries?
>
Some do, or, at least, some resent the loss of royalties. (I'm not
one of them, btw; I figure that both are free advertising, although if
the US were to pass a Public Lending Right, it wouldn't be over my
dead body.)
--
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------
Charlton Wilbur
> As a 20+-year bookseller, I don't have any qualms about a customer
> occasionally returning a book for a refund. Our store won't give
> cash or charge card credit if the return is after 30 days. If we
> handsell an author's book, and after a few chapters you decide it
> isn't for you, of course we'd like you to exchange it for something
> that is more to your taste. That is the whole point of dealing
> with an actual bookseller, rather than Ed's Bait & Tire Shop
> (we sell books, too.)
The investment of time you make in getting to know a clerk or an owner
pays off in spades, as well, and one sign of a good bookstore is that
the people working there are well-read and can answer questions like,
"I liked the recent George R. R. Margin; can you recommend anything
else like it?" or "When is the new Connie Willis coming out in
paperback?" That sort of customer service makes it well worth the
extra 10% I pay over what Amazon would charge.
And that my FLBS both has an online presence
(http://www.spacecrime.com) and is willing to special-order me arcane
and technical music books are bonuses on top of that. They got me
_The Modes of Classical Vocal Polyphony_ in 2 weeks when the best
Amazon could offer was 4-6 months....
Charlton
Michael Kube-McDowell
following thoughtprints where they could be seen:
>
>On 21-Jan-2002, "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>> Yes. I'm always surprised by authors who look askance at markets in
>> used books, as if they were somehow being cheated of their royalties.
>>
>> The fact that books can be resold is part of the reason people are
>> willing to buy them in the first place, and to pay so much for them.
>>
>> Used book sales are how many people discover "new" authors they're not
>> willing to risk $7 or more on. They may then go on to buy all the
>> author's other books new. Maybe even in hardback.
>
>The movie industry used to feel the same way about videos.
Then they figured out how to make money off them.
rafe von takawa
> I would've missed out on based on the first chapter, though, like _Bridge
of
> Birds_, but that's another issue.)
This is true and I've gone back to books several times before getting
through or giving up. Still if I'm having trouble with it, I'll return and
wait for paper before trying again
>
> Still, I find it odd that for someone who reads as much as you do (and the
> amount of money you spend, while apparently not having such an
unmanageable
> to-read pile that the return date passes before you can get to the book to
find
> out if you want to keep it, also suggests that you read at least
moderately
> fast), you don't have time to read/skim one chapter in the bookstore
before you
> buy. And time is saved later by the fact you don't have to go back and
return
> the book.
>
Oh my to read pile is unmanageable. My friend jokes that I'd better start
chewing antioxidents or melange like chicklets if I have any hope of
getting through them in a life time.
As far as reading in the store--I hate it. The several Borders I frequent
have the feel and atmosphere of a Wal-mart--crowded and noisey--even the
music seems too loud. The best I can manage in a bookstore is reading the
duskjacket and a sentence or two. This will sound wierd but I can't reading
standing up or even sitting in a chair, at least for any length of time.
My most sustained and profitable reading is laying down. I can easily get
in an hour or two laying down at night and in the morning.
Also I don't mind going back sure the staff think I'm wierd or a thief but
who cares I'm rich and they're clerks. The only drawback is that I get so
familar with the forthcoming publishing schedule that I'm only rarely
surprised by something new.
rafe
rafe von takawa
> Also I don't mind going back sure the staff think I'm wierd or a thief but
> who cares I'm rich and they're clerks. The only drawback is that I get so
> familar with the forthcoming publishing schedule that I'm only rarely
> surprised by something new.
>
> rafe
>
>
I have to qualify the above remark made earlier by me. With the death of
the independents in the Detroit area I increasingly defaulted to Borders
over the last few years. Borders is transmorgrifing into a B
Dalton/Starbucks/mediaplay and I hate it. For example, they use to require
their staff to take exams and work there favorite sections. You could get
helpful suggestions in your areas of interests and great conversation to
boot. This has stopped to my knowledge. And the veterans I share an
occasional lunch concur. I heard a new clerk last week ask the manager
where they shelve eddi-pus rex--pronounced just like I spelled it! This
clown was even standing in front of the ancient history section!
I even know the location of books much better than their newer staff. The
mess and mis-shelving in the stores is awful and I find myself reshelving
just to give the authors a chance. Recently I found most of Banks' stuff
in Fiction and literature instead of the division of Mysteries and SF. Also
I'm noticing a steady of shelf space and helf life, especially in
non-fiction areas--but increasingly in fiction/SF. Another nitpick is the
loss of the "new university press section". Sure that stuff didn't sell
but it was cool to browse through and added ambience to the stores.
But again the worst change has to be the clerks. Many are not only snotty
but they assume that you've stolen the books you are returning come from
different stores. Even worse some clerks feel inclined to share their
thoughts with you. Some recent register chit chat included the following:
"gee its kind of strange that you you frequent the store so often (which I
replied, at least I don't work here.) Yesterday a new clerk/nickel
philosopher shared that she never has any time to "waste" on reading--she's
to busy liviing. At Christmas, a clerk proudly proclaimed to me that she
hadn't picked up a book since college. But today was the worst--my clerk
told me that SF was comics without pictures. You see she' s studying
serious literature...
rafe
Fire3Sky
David E. Siegel
A "public lending right" is a scheme under which authors a paid a
small royalty for books of theirs lent from public libraries. I don't
know the details of how this works.
-DES
Chris Schumacher
>A "public lending right" is a scheme under which authors a paid a
>small royalty for books of theirs lent from public libraries. I don't
>know the details of how this works.
>
>-DES
I also remember hearing about something terrible from my British
friends where it's technically illegal to lend someone one of your
books...
-==Kensu==-
William Davis
>A "public lending right" is a scheme under which authors a paid a
>small royalty for books of theirs lent from public libraries. I don't
>know the details of how this works.
Which conveniently ignores the fact that sales to libraries make up a
rather nice market for most authors. One of the big reasons authors
want that first printing in hardcover is that many libraries will only
buy hard-bound books.
There are a lot of libraries in the world. If you sell a copy to any
percentage of them, you have made a lot of sales you normally wouldn't
have. And since the audience for libraries is often different from
that of bookstores, a lent book does not equal a lost sale.
Del Cotter
Chris Schumacher <kensu...@hotmail.com> said:
>sie...@acm.org (David E. Siegel) wrote:
>>A "public lending right" is a scheme under which authors a paid a
>>small royalty for books of theirs lent from public libraries.
>
>I also remember hearing about something terrible from my British
>friends where it's technically illegal to lend someone one of your
>books...
Go ask your British friends if you can have your leg back now.
--
. . . . Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk . . . .
JustRead:ansOfEternity:TerryPratchettTheFifthElephant:KenMacLeodCosmonau
tKeep:JRRTolkienTheFellowshipOfTheRing:ChinaMievillePerdidoStreetStation
ToRead:KatherineBlakeTheInteriorLife:MichaelMarshallSmithOnlyForward:Wil
Scott Hedrick
"Chris Schumacher" <kensu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c598de9...@news.tds.net...
> I also remember hearing about something terrible from my British
> friends where it's technically illegal to lend someone one of your
> books...
DOn't know about that side of the pond, but on this side,when you purchase a
book, CD or even software, you *own the medium* on which the data exists.
Software comes with a special license prohibiting lending, because the
nature of use requires a copy to be made. If I lend someone my copy of a
book or CD, they can use it without making a copy. Thus, only one copy (for
which a royalty is presumably paid) is in existence under a given purchase.
It isn't a copyright violation to lend someone your legally-obtained copy,
so long as you do not keep an additional (non-legally obtained) copy for
yourself.
This is why lending a book is legal and lending software is not (unless you
completely delete any other copy from your system).
David Allsopp
Siegel <sie...@acm.org> writes
>fire...@aol.com (Fire3Sky) wrote in message news:<20020201015624.06706.00000336
>@mb-ct.aol.com>...
>> >> >Yes. I'm always surprised by authors who look askance at markets in
>> >> >used books, as if they were somehow being cheated of their royalties.
>> >>
>> >> Presumably they'd also disapprove of libraries?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Some do, or, at least, some resent the loss of royalties. (I'm not
>> >one of them, btw; I figure that both are free advertising, although if
>> >the US were to pass a Public Lending Right, it wouldn't be over my
>> >dead body.)
>
>A "public lending right" is a scheme under which authors a paid a
>small royalty for books of theirs lent from public libraries. I don't
>know the details of how this works.
Records are kept of how often each book is loaned, and the authors get a
vasrying sum depending on the number of loans. It's also capped at a
certain amount, to prevent the entire fund going to the estate of
Catherine Cookson. The list of loans is published in newspapers every
now and then.
--
David Allsopp Houston, this is Tranquillity Base.
Remove SPAM to email me The Eagle has landed.
Jim Smith
<kensu...@hotmail.com> writes
I have an old paperback here (Lanark, by Alasdair Gray[1]). It has the
following on the copyright/publisher details page.
This book is sold subject to the condition that it shall not, by way of
trade or otherwise, be lent, re-sold, hired out or otherwise circulated
without the publisher's prior consent _in any form of binding or cover
other than that in which it is published_ and without a similar
condition being imposed on the subsequent purchaser.
All books used to have this and I suspect most people get bored before
the _in any form of binding..._ bit.
A much newer paperback has something similar, but includes electronic
storage and retrieval.
[1] A work of genius. Inspired _The Bridge_ by Iain Banks.
--
Jim Smith
phil hunt
IIRC dead authors don't get anything anyway. But I may well be wrong on
that point.
--
===== Philip Hunt ===== ph...@comuno.freeserve.co.uk =====
Herbivore, a zero-effort email encryption system. Details at:
<http://www.vision25.demon.co.uk/oss/herbivore/intro.html>
erilar
ph...@comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:16:29 +0000, David Allsopp
> <d...@tqSPAMbase.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >In article <dbdfe7e0.0202...@posting.google.com>, David E.
> >Siegel <sie...@acm.org> writes
> >>fire...@aol.com (Fire3Sky) wrote in message
> >>news:<20020201015624.06706.00000336
> >>@mb-ct.aol.com>...
> >>> >> >Yes. I'm always surprised by authors who look askance at markets
> >>> >> >in
> >>> >> >used books, as if they were somehow being cheated of their
> >>> >> >royalties.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Presumably they'd also disapprove of libraries?
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >Some do, or, at least, some resent the loss of royalties. (I'm not
> >>> >one of them, btw; I figure that both are free advertising, although
> >>> >if
> >>> >the US were to pass a Public Lending Right, it wouldn't be over my
> >>> >dead body.)
> >>
> >>A "public lending right" is a scheme under which authors a paid a
> >>small royalty for books of theirs lent from public libraries. I don't
> >>know the details of how this works.
Ye gads! As if libraries aren't strapped for cash already!
--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka erilar)
What do you mean, too many books??
------------------------------------------------
Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo
Del Cotter
erilar <erila...@SPAMchibardun.net.invalid> said:
>> >>A "public lending right" is a scheme under which authors a paid a
>> >>small royalty for books of theirs lent from public libraries. I don't
>> >>know the details of how this works.
>
>Ye gads! As if libraries aren't strapped for cash already!
Our libraries are a lot less strapped for cash than yours.
Things are different in different parts of the world. Film at eleven.
Michael S. Schiffer
<47D4p7FJ...@branta.demon.co.uk>:
>On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, in rec.arts.sf.written,
>erilar <erila...@SPAMchibardun.net.invalid> said:
>...
>>Ye gads! As if libraries aren't strapped for cash already!
>Our libraries are a lot less strapped for cash than yours.
How do the average funding levels compare?
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS
msch...@condor.depaul.edu
Jim Smith
<d...@branta.demon.co.uk> writes
>On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, in rec.arts.sf.written,
>erilar <erila...@SPAMchibardun.net.invalid> said:
>
>>> >>A "public lending right" is a scheme under which authors a paid a
>>> >>small royalty for books of theirs lent from public libraries. I don't
>>> >>know the details of how this works.
>>
>>Ye gads! As if libraries aren't strapped for cash already!
>
>Our libraries are a lot less strapped for cash than yours.
>
>Things are different in different parts of the world. Film at eleven.
>
government funds and most libraries are funded by local government.
--
Jim Smith
Martin Wisse
<d...@tqSPAMbase.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <dbdfe7e0.0202...@posting.google.com>, David E.
>Siegel <sie...@acm.org> writes
>>A "public lending right" is a scheme under which authors a paid a
>>small royalty for books of theirs lent from public libraries. I don't
>>know the details of how this works.
>
>Records are kept of how often each book is loaned, and the authors get a
>vasrying sum depending on the number of loans. It's also capped at a
>certain amount, to prevent the entire fund going to the estate of
>Catherine Cookson. The list of loans is published in newspapers every
>now and then.
The figures for last year have just been published. The Guardian's book
section (<http://books.guardian.co.uk>) has a link to it.
Under the scheme only living, UK authors are paid and there's a cap at
ukp 6,000. After all, Terry Pratchett really doesn't need that check to
survive.... There's also a limit to how small an amount ehy'll pay out,
something like ukp 2 or so.
Martin Wisse
--
I don't even think "kill a giraffe" was on Lazarus Long's list.
French-kiss a giraffe and make its nipples go spung?
Matthew Austern and Bill Higgins, Rasseff
Martin Wisse
<erila...@SPAMchibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <slrna5tl66...@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
>ph...@comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote:
>> >>A "public lending right" is a scheme under which authors a paid a
>> >>small royalty for books of theirs lent from public libraries. I don't
>> >>know the details of how this works.
>
>Ye gads! As if libraries aren't strapped for cash already!
It's paid out of a separate budget by the Treasury in the UK.