Best foreign-language SF writers...?
Tue Sorensen
is also available in English, besides Stanislaw Lem and the Strugatsky
brothers?
- Tue
Butch Malahide
> Which do you think are the best foreign-language SF writers whose work
Karel Capek
Franz Kafka
Jules Verne
Matthias Warkus
Yevgeny Zamyatin
mawa
Barb
"Tue Sorensen" <soren...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0e317f23-147b-4601...@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
Frank Sch�tzing, The Swarm - highly recommended read!!
Thomas Womack
>> - Tue
Maybe I'm biased by having struggled through the first half of it in
German, ending up with a vocab book half of which was short irregular
verbs and half sea life, but it didn't seem that many steps up from
Tom Clancy; I think _The Abyss_ did the same sort of thing better.
Eschbach's _The Carpet-Makers_ was I thought fantastic.
Tom
Sean O'Hara
declared:
> Which do you think are the best foreign-language SF writers whose work
> is also available in English, besides Stanislaw Lem and the Strugatsky
> brothers?
>
Jorge Luis Borges
We keep hearing that science fiction magazines in China are quite
popular. Has anything been translated to English yet?
--
Sean O'Hara <http://www.diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com>
New audio book: As Long as You Wish by John O'Keefe
<http://librivox.org/short-science-fiction-collection-010/>
erilar
there are translations available. There's an Austrian mystery writer I
have the same problem with. I sometimes buy books to read when I'm
traveling over there 8-)
--
Erilar, biblioholic
bib-li-o-hol-ism [<Gr biblion] n. [BIBLIO + HOLISM] books, of books:
habitual longing to purchase, read, store, admire, and consume books in excess.
Robert Bannister
> I was going to recommend a German writer I enjoy, but don't believe
> there are translations available. There's an Austrian mystery writer I
> have the same problem with. I sometimes buy books to read when I'm
> traveling over there 8-)
>
Please do. I keep looking at German sites, but they only seem to offer
me translations from English, although there are some good children's
stories.
--
Rob Bannister
Tue Sørensen
> On 2009-09-26 11:56:28 +0200, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> said:
>
> > On Sep 26, 4:38 am, Tue Sorensen <sorenson...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Which do you think are the best foreign-language SF writers whose work
> >> is also available in English [snip]
>
> > Karel Capek
> > Franz Kafka
> > Jules Verne
>
> Yevgeny Zamyatin
I actually have one of Zamyatin's books ("We" - haven't read it yet,
though), now that you mention it.
I also have books by Capek (which I haven't read) and Verne (which I
have), and am fairly familiar with Kafka, though I didn't think of him
as an SF writer (surrealism is what I'd call it).
- Tue
Tue Sørensen
> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Tue Sorensen
> declared:
>
> > Which do you think are the best foreign-language SF writers whose work
> > is also available in English, besides Stanislaw Lem and the Strugatsky
> > brothers?
>
> Jorge Luis Borges
Another surrealist... which works of his, available in English, would
you classify as science fiction?
> We keep hearing that science fiction magazines in China are quite
> popular. Has anything been translated to English yet?
That would be interesting indeed. I'd buy it.
- Tue
Evelyn Leeper
> On 26 Sep., 16:51, Sean O'Hara <seanoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Tue Sorensen
>> declared:
>>
>>> Which do you think are the best foreign-language SF writers whose work
>>> is also available in English, besides Stanislaw Lem and the Strugatsky
>>> brothers?
>> Jorge Luis Borges
>
> Another surrealist... which works of his, available in English, would
> you classify as science fiction?
Probably "Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" would count. Someone else
mentioned "Utopia of a Tired Man", which I can't recall at all (at least
under that name).
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
I don't need a friend who changes when I change and who nods
when I nod; my shadow does that much better. -Plutarch
erilar
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
I just went and looked at the front of the shelf (books there are 3
deep) and the only ones in front are a couple fantasies by Wolfgang
Hohlbein, one of which, Hagen von Tronje, is one of my favorite
Nibelungenlied-based novels 8-) I also have what is apparently the
older of a couple translations INTO German of Lord of the Rings and the
middle two of my six Lensman books are in German. It's a really mixed
bag. I don't know quite where the others are lurking just now 8-) To
get at others I have to pull out too many books to attempt late in the
day.
Butch Malahide
> On 26 Sep., 15:07, Matthias Warkus <mawar...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2009-09-26 11:56:28 +0200, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> said:
>
> > > On Sep 26, 4:38 am, Tue Sorensen <sorenson...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Which do you think are the best foreign-language SF writers whose work
> > >> is also available in English [snip]
>
> > > Karel Capek
> > > Franz Kafka
> > > Jules Verne
>
> > Yevgeny Zamyatin
>
> I actually have one of Zamyatin's books ("We" - haven't read it yet,
> though), now that you mention it.
>
> I also have books by Capek (which I haven't read)
The only Capek I've read is _R.U.R._ and _War with the Newts_.
> and Verne (which I
> have), and am fairly familiar with Kafka, though I didn't think of him
> as an SF writer (surrealism is what I'd call it).
I thought of Kafka as an SF writer because I first encountered him by
reading his short stories in SF anthologies:
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?WLRDOWN1951
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?TMLSMRRWE21952
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?TRRRRNVN2F1955
Butch Malahide
> Tue Sørensen wrote:
> > On 26 Sep., 16:51, Sean O'Hara <seanoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Tue Sorensen
> >> declared:
>
> >>> Which do you think are the best foreign-language SF writers whose work
> >>> is also available in English, besides Stanislaw Lem and the Strugatsky
> >>> brothers?
> >> Jorge Luis Borges
>
> > Another surrealist... which works of his, available in English, would
> > you classify as science fiction?
>
> Probably "Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" would count. Someone else
> mentioned "Utopia of a Tired Man", which I can't recall at all (at least
> under that name).
"The Library of Babel"
erilar
<c3415ffb-17cc-472d...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought of Kafka as an SF writer because I first encountered him by
> reading his short stories in SF anthologies
I first met Kafka in German and never wanted to read more.
Butch Malahide
> In article
> <c3415ffb-17cc-472d-8cd2-edfbc1eab...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
> Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I thought of Kafka as an SF writer because I first encountered him by
> > reading his short stories in SF anthologies
>
> I first met Kafka in German and never wanted to read more.
My favorite Kafka story is "The Great Wall of China".
Daniel Damouth
m:
> Which do you think are the best foreign-language SF writers whose
> work is also available in English, besides Stanislaw Lem and the
> Strugatsky brothers?
Andreas Eschbach, _The Carpet Makers_
-Dan Damouth
Dirk van den Boom
What kind of "sites" will that be?
If you are looking for German sf-authors, look for Andreas
Brandhorst or Eschbach e. g.
If you want to know about new books published,
www.phantastik-news.de is the foremost newscaster in
Germany, if you can read German.
Dirk van den Boom
> Which do you think are the best foreign-language SF writers whose work
> is also available in English, besides Stanislaw Lem and the Strugatsky
> brothers?
If you expand SF into Fantasy, I might point out that
Germany's No. 1 bestselling Fantasy writer Markus Heitz has
very recently been translated to English and published in
the US.
Robert Bannister
> In article <7i7jk5F...@mid.individual.net>,
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> erilar wrote:
>>> I was going to recommend a German writer I enjoy, but don't believe
>>> there are translations available. There's an Austrian mystery writer I
>>> have the same problem with. I sometimes buy books to read when I'm
>>> traveling over there 8-)
>>>
>> Please do. I keep looking at German sites, but they only seem to offer
>> me translations from English, although there are some good children's
>> stories.
>
> I just went and looked at the front of the shelf (books there are 3
> deep) and the only ones in front are a couple fantasies by Wolfgang
> Hohlbein, one of which, Hagen von Tronje, is one of my favorite
> Nibelungenlied-based novels 8-)
OK, thanks. I've ordered that one from German Amazon.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
Thank you. I've registered for their newsletter.
--
Rob Bannister
Peter Huebner
dra...@chibardun.net.invalid says...
>
> In article
> <c3415ffb-17cc-472d...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
> Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I thought of Kafka as an SF writer because I first encountered him by
> > reading his short stories in SF anthologies
>
> I first met Kafka in German and never wanted to read more.
Some of Kafka's stuff is creepier than anything Lovecraft has ever put
together - his short story 'the tunnel' to wit.
On the whole, Kafka is sailing so close to the edge of insanity and
making me FEEL it, that it's making me very very uncomfortable indeed.
Being insane is not something I really want to have a satori-experience
about, or empathise so deeply with that I get lost in there. I guess it
says something about his skill and power as a writer that he can do this
to me, but <shudder>
2 novels and a handful of short stories were enough, thanks.
Phil K Dick has done similar things to me, as has CJ Cherryh. I can
generally not read either unless I'm in a certain headspace.
-P.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article <drache-AD2266....@news.eternal-september.org>,
> dra...@chibardun.net.invalid says...
>> In article
>> <c3415ffb-17cc-472d...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
>> Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I thought of Kafka as an SF writer because I first encountered him by
>>> reading his short stories in SF anthologies
>> I first met Kafka in German and never wanted to read more.
>
>
> Some of Kafka's stuff is creepier than anything Lovecraft has ever put
> together - his short story 'the tunnel' to wit.
>
> On the whole, Kafka is sailing so close to the edge of insanity and
> making me FEEL it, that it's making me very very uncomfortable indeed.
> Being insane is not something I really want to have a satori-experience
> about, or empathise so deeply with that I get lost in there. I guess it
> says something about his skill and power as a writer that he can do this
> to me, but <shudder>
> 2 novels and a handful of short stories were enough, thanks.
>
Kafka just ANNOYS me. And I believe I've read everything published by
him (I had to proofread a huge critical anthology of his work. He
doesn't horrify, just makes me want to toss the book in the trash.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Pedro Dias
> > dra...@chibardun.net.invalid says...
> >> In article
> >> <c3415ffb-17cc-472d-8cd2-edfbc1eab...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
> >> Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> I thought of Kafka as an SF writer because I first encountered him by
> >>> reading his short stories in SF anthologies
> >> I first met Kafka in German and never wanted to read more.
>
> > Some of Kafka's stuff is creepier than anything Lovecraft has ever put
> > together - his short story 'the tunnel' to wit.
>
> > On the whole, Kafka is sailing so close to the edge of insanity and
> > making me FEEL it, that it's making me very very uncomfortable indeed.
> > Being insane is not something I really want to have a satori-experience
> > about, or empathise so deeply with that I get lost in there. I guess it
> > says something about his skill and power as a writer that he can do this
> > to me, but <shudder>
> > 2 novels and a handful of short stories were enough, thanks.
>
> Kafka just ANNOYS me. And I believe I've read everything published by
> him (I had to proofread a huge critical anthology of his work. He
> doesn't horrify, just makes me want to toss the book in the trash.
I almost failed a course because of him. It was impossible to hide my
utter contempt. Although to be fair the professor started us out with
"Letter To My Father", and that repulsive whine-fest colored my
reading of everything else. Since that was not intended for
publication, that may be unfair. But I don't care.
DouhetSukd
>Since that was not intended for
> publication, that may be unfair. But I don't care.
Not unfair. IIRC nothing Kafka wrote was intended for publication.
After his death, his buddies went against his wishes and got it
published.
Personally, I love Kafka, that meticulous intent to worry about
everything and suck up to every bit of officialdom. It's not the way
I'd want to live my life, but it is quite surreal and enjoyable, from
a remote. And frankly, without "Kafkaesque", how would we describe
some of the sillier ways government and corporate rules are laid out?
WRT to the OP, IMHO, from what I've seen in stores in Europe, most SF
seems to be a English phenomenon. Sure, there are exceptions. If you
extend SF to magical realism, you can include things like Isabel
Allende.
IMHO many (but not all) foreign SF is at a lower level than the better
English writers. B&C-list, rather than A-list. Only in SF, mind you -
I am NOT extending that to any other category. In France at least,
that might because publishing houses shy away from non-formulaic,
French-authored, SF. So they end up with lots of serials, like Star
Wars novels here.
But the result remains that the dominant writers are Anglo Saxon on
French shelves. Globalization helps, but you don't see that level of
dominance in mysteries or modern literature.
In fact, to flip the argument around, Euro+French comic books blow
most English production out of the water. For every "Watchmen", there
are lots of "Spiderman #266 - His toughest battle yet, will Spidey
survive?". Lot of Euro trash comics, but a huge amount of high
quality work is published there.
My SF opinion comes from hours of browsing bookstores mostly in
France, but also Germany and Holland. Mostly I saw translations from
English. The back cover jackets on most local authors _usually_ did
not inspire much trust. I haven't lived there since 97, so I would
love for things to have changed.
For example, I bounced off hard from Eschbach's Jesus Video, though
maybe it was the French translation wot did it. The idea was great,
but I couldn't get into the characterization at all.
I got that book in 2005 from a French store which has lots of SF and
very knowledgeable staff who do great recommendations. In this case,
I wanted book recommendations for _good_ non-Anglo authors. I could
tell their advice for Anglos was good, but all their "natives" turned
out bad.
Some French authors that I've had more success with:
Pierre Boulle - Planet Apes, Joel Houssin - Le Temps du Twist, Bernard
Weber - the ants, Pierre Pelot - La Guerre Olympique.
Also, Lem, and Lukanyenko - Nightwatch.
Oh, and of course, I forgot Perry Rhodan, who is originally in German,
nein? Tongue in cheek, but not entirely - I enjoyed them as a teen.
Dirk van den Boom
> OK, thanks. I've ordered that one from German Amazon.
Are you ready for German small presses? German SF is mostly published in
small presses. Have a look at Armin Roessler's Argona-novels (can be
ordered through amazon) for example. Excellent stuff.
Jens M. S�rensen
Michael Ende. _Momo_ and _The Neverending Story_ are excelent fantasy - at
least when read a a kid.
/Jens
Tue Sørensen
> On Sep 27, 9:59 pm, Pedro Dias <pedrod...@snip.net> wrote:
> WRT to the OP, IMHO, from what I've seen in stores in Europe, most SF
> seems to be a English phenomenon. Sure, there are exceptions. If you
> extend SF to magical realism, you can include things like Isabel
> Allende.
>
> IMHO many (but not all) foreign SF is at a lower level than the better
> English writers. B&C-list, rather than A-list.
Sounds like a prejudice! :-) But an understandable one. It stands to
reason that most good SF would emerge from places that have
longstanding SF publishing traditions, which mostly means the Anglo-
American world, *but* SF is quite popular in eastern Europe as well.
When you attend a Eurocon (which is held alternately in eastern and
western Europe), like the 2004 one in Bulgaria, you are struck by how
much SF literature exists in their languages. A good deal of it is
translated from English, but there is also quite an amount of local
stuff. Zoran Zivkovic from Serbia has become quite popular in recent
years (he was a guest at the Eurocon in Copenhagen in 2007), also in
English (I don't think he's brilliant, but he's OK). And according to
a Lithuanian amateur SF publisher I met at a Danish Fantasticon in
2005, Poland alone easily has 25 SF writers as good as or better than
Stanislaw Lem. But, of course, if they're not translated, the rest of
us don't know anything about them.
> Only in SF, mind you -
> I am NOT extending that to any other category. In France at least,
> that might because publishing houses shy away from non-formulaic,
> French-authored, SF. So they end up with lots of serials, like Star
> Wars novels here.
Yes, publishing house policies have a lot to do with it. Most don't
feel that SF sells, and unfortunately they're probably right (in the
continental west-Europeans countries). SF fans in continental Europe
has been conditioned by now to simply by the English-language
versions, often overlooking that any SF might exist in their native
language.
> Pierre Boulle - Planet Apes, Joel Houssin - Le Temps du Twist, Bernard
> Weber - the ants, Pierre Pelot - La Guerre Olympique.
I have Boulle's Planet of the Apes - do the others exist in English?
> Oh, and of course, I forgot Perry Rhodan, who is originally in German,
> nein? Tongue in cheek, but not entirely - I enjoyed them as a teen.
I don't read much German, although I can understand most of it when in
comic book form... :-)
- Tue
Dave Hansen
wrote:
[...]
>
> Eschbach's _The Carpet-Makers_ was I thought fantastic.
Meh. It started well, but degraded into nothing more than a silly
practical joke on the reader by the end. Apparently to make a "point"
that's not particularly profound or surprising. Huge disappointment.
Eschbach probably could write a good story (indeed, probably has,
somewhere), but "The Carpet Makers" isn't it. IMHO.
Regards,
-=Dave
erilar
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> Kafka just ANNOYS me. And I believe I've read everything published by
> him (I had to proofread a huge critical anthology of his work. He
> doesn't horrify, just makes me want to toss the book in the trash.
Oh, what torture! A much smaller dose had a similar effect on me.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article <h9pc6g$ic2$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> Kafka just ANNOYS me. And I believe I've read everything published by
>> him (I had to proofread a huge critical anthology of his work. He
>> doesn't horrify, just makes me want to toss the book in the trash.
>
> Oh, what torture! A much smaller dose had a similar effect on me.
>
That job exposed me to many things. I learned a lot there, had some
fun. I had to pay for the learning and the fun with things like the
compiled Kafka, Tom Stoppard, a complete annotated Moby-Dick, etc.
Michael Stemper
>In article <drache-AD2266....@news.eternal-september.org>, dra...@chibardun.net.invalid says...
>> In article <c3415ffb-17cc-472d...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I thought of Kafka as an SF writer because I first encountered him by
>> > reading his short stories in SF anthologies
>>
>> I first met Kafka in German and never wanted to read more.
>
>Some of Kafka's stuff is creepier than anything Lovecraft has ever put
>together - his short story 'the tunnel' to wit.
>
>On the whole, Kafka is sailing so close to the edge of insanity and
>making me FEEL it, that it's making me very very uncomfortable indeed.
I read "The Transfiguration" [1] last year. Something that I was unclear
about: when Gregor turned into a cockroach, was it standard-issue, or
was it roughly the size of a human?
[1] I think that's the title, anyway. Due to water issues, I no longer
possess that book.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
If it's "tourist season", where do I get my license?
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article <MPG.252ad317e...@news.individual.net>, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> writes:
>> In article <drache-AD2266....@news.eternal-september.org>, dra...@chibardun.net.invalid says...
>>> In article <c3415ffb-17cc-472d...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> I thought of Kafka as an SF writer because I first encountered him by
>>>> reading his short stories in SF anthologies
>>> I first met Kafka in German and never wanted to read more.
>> Some of Kafka's stuff is creepier than anything Lovecraft has ever put
>> together - his short story 'the tunnel' to wit.
>>
>> On the whole, Kafka is sailing so close to the edge of insanity and
>> making me FEEL it, that it's making me very very uncomfortable indeed.
>
> I read "The Transfiguration" [1] last year.
The Metamorphosis is the usual title.
>Something that I was unclear
> about: when Gregor turned into a cockroach, was it standard-issue, or
> was it roughly the size of a human?
I was involved in a discussion where there was debate about whether he
actually transformed at all. However, it was human-sized, as IIRC he
died at least partially from injury inflicted by an apple which embedded
itself in his body.
Robert Bannister
I tried ordering "Entheete", but for some reason German Amazon won't
send it to Australia and Amazon (US) has never heard of R��ler.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
And Cornelia Funke's "Tintenwelt" is pretty good too.
--
Rob Bannister
Maureen
> Also, Lem, and Lukanyenko - Nightwatch.
I love Lukyanenko. But unfortunately, the American translator decided
to surgically remove every single fannish and pop culture reference
that he could find. Since Lukyanenko is a very fannish writer, and his
main character is for good or ill, a computer geek, this took a lot of
the fun out of the book. (Also a lot of the plot points and
foreshadowing, for that matter.)
OTOH, it would be highly amusing to re-translate Kafka by adding in
fannish and pop culture references.
(Almost as fun as watching the English professor lose it, because I
insisted Kafka was in fact trying to play games with uncertainty just
like writers later did on The Twilight Zone. Apparently it had never
occurred to him to link TV horror with lit horror, and he didn't like
it. Or almost as fun as convincing the other English professor that
Ursula K. LeGuin was a science fiction and fantasy writer, that the
story he'd assigned was and always had been science fiction, and that
therefore he was teaching science fiction in his class. If only I
could make people's heads fly off by intent and not by innocently
speaking the sober truth....)
Dirk van den Boom
> I tried ordering "Entheete", but for some reason German Amazon won't
> send it to Australia and Amazon (US) has never heard of R��ler.
Too bad :( Sometimes, globalization sucks.
You might try to order directly from the publisher (www.wurdackverlag.de).
Another quite relevant SF small press is Atlantis (www.atlantis-verlag.de).
erilar
Dirk van den Boom <spam...@sf-boom.de> wrote:
You can find unlikely things via abebooks.com
Michael Stemper
>Michael Stemper wrote:
>> In article <MPG.252ad317e...@news.individual.net>, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> writes:
>>> Some of Kafka's stuff is creepier than anything Lovecraft has ever put
>>> together - his short story 'the tunnel' to wit.
>>>
>>> On the whole, Kafka is sailing so close to the edge of insanity and
>>> making me FEEL it, that it's making me very very uncomfortable indeed.
>>
>> I read "The Transfiguration" [1] last year.
>
> The Metamorphosis is the usual title.
Ah. Well, like I said, there was a water-oriented challenge recently,
which meant that I no longer own the book which it was in. Thanks.
>>Something that I was unclear
>> about: when Gregor turned into a cockroach, was it standard-issue, or
>> was it roughly the size of a human?
>
> I was involved in a discussion where there was debate about whether he
>actually transformed at all.
So roach nature was possibly a state of mind?
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
This email is to be read by its intended recipient only. Any other party
reading is required by the EULA to send me $500.00.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article <h9qtnc$iko$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> writes:
>> Michael Stemper wrote:
>>> In article <MPG.252ad317e...@news.individual.net>, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> writes:
>
>>>> Some of Kafka's stuff is creepier than anything Lovecraft has ever put
>>>> together - his short story 'the tunnel' to wit.
>>>>
>>>> On the whole, Kafka is sailing so close to the edge of insanity and
>>>> making me FEEL it, that it's making me very very uncomfortable indeed.
>>> I read "The Transfiguration" [1] last year.
>> The Metamorphosis is the usual title.
>
> Ah. Well, like I said, there was a water-oriented challenge recently,
> which meant that I no longer own the book which it was in. Thanks.
An aquatic event deprived me of many things a couple of years ago.
While I wouldn't miss the Kafka, I suppose it's too much to hope that
you didn't lose anything else.
>
>>> Something that I was unclear
>>> about: when Gregor turned into a cockroach, was it standard-issue, or
>>> was it roughly the size of a human?
>> I was involved in a discussion where there was debate about whether he
>> actually transformed at all.
>
> So roach nature was possibly a state of mind?
>
That's one of the key points, to me, of how one VIEWS "The
Metamorphosis". If Gregor Samsa's transformation is physical, you're
dealing with a story in which people are confronted by the monstrous and
inexplicable in a very real and direct sense. If his transformation is
merely a metaphor -- he "changed to a giant cockroach" in the sense that
he suddenly stopped behaving as he was expected to, and locked himself
in his room, etc. -- you're dealing with a story in which people are
faced with a psychological problem. It may be inexplicable in a small
sense, in that his family and friends don't understand what caused him
to do this, but it's not a violation of the very laws of nature that
guide the universe he's in.
Michael Stemper
>Michael Stemper wrote:
>> In article <h9qtnc$iko$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> writes:
>>> Michael Stemper wrote:
>>>> I read "The Transfiguration" [1] last year.
>>> The Metamorphosis is the usual title.
>>
>> Ah. Well, like I said, there was a water-oriented challenge recently,
>> which meant that I no longer own the book which it was in. Thanks.
>
> An aquatic event deprived me of many things a couple of years ago.
Has it been a couple of years already? *boggle*
>While I wouldn't miss the Kafka, I suppose it's too much to hope that
>you didn't lose anything else.
About a hundred gallons worth of books, based on having a thirty gallon
trash bin. Not too much SF was lost, and none of that irreplaceable. It
was mostly non-genre stuff that I'd picked up at rummage sales and what-not.
I'd read about half of it. The loss that hurt the most was a two-volume
Penguin edition of Malory, which I hadn't read yet.
>>> I was involved in a discussion where there was debate about whether he
>>> actually transformed at all.
>>
>> So roach nature was possibly a state of mind?
>
> That's one of the key points, to me, of how one VIEWS "The
>Metamorphosis". If Gregor Samsa's transformation is physical, you're
>dealing with a story in which people are confronted by the monstrous and
> inexplicable in a very real and direct sense. If his transformation is
>merely a metaphor -- he "changed to a giant cockroach" in the sense that
>he suddenly stopped behaving as he was expected to, and locked himself
>in his room, etc. -- you're dealing with a story in which people are
>faced with a psychological problem. It may be inexplicable in a small
>sense, in that his family and friends don't understand what caused him
>to do this, but it's not a violation of the very laws of nature that
>guide the universe he's in.
Interesting. Now, I really regret having lost the Kafka, because I
can't make a second pass at this story with this other idea.[1]
Bringing SF sensibilities to my first reading of it, I just read it
literally: "Oh, he turned into a cockroach. I don't need an infodump
on how it happened, since that's obviuosly not relevant."
[1] Well, I could check it out of the library, but probably won't. I'm
much more likely to read a book that is *in my house* than to go out
and get it.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Twenty-four hours in a day; twenty-four beers in a case. Coincidence?
David DeLaney
>Interesting. Now, I really regret having lost the Kafka, because I
>can't make a second pass at this story with this other idea.[1]
>
>much more likely to read a book that is *in my house* than to go out
>and get it.
Psst: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/5200
Dave "translated, of course" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
William December Starr
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) said:
> I read "The Transfiguration" [1] last year. Something that I was
> unclear about: when Gregor turned into a cockroach, was it
> standard-issue, or was it roughly the size of a human?
"You wouldn't *believe* the size of the cockroach I just killed in
Gregor's room, dear."
-- winning entry in some New Yorker literary competition; I
remember that line but not what the rules of the contest were.
-- wds
William December Starr
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
> Michael Stemper wrote:
>
>> Something that I was unclear about: when Gregor turned into a
>> cockroach, was it standard-issue, or was it roughly the size of a
>> human?
>
> I was involved in a discussion where there was debate about
> whether he actually transformed at all. However, it was
> human-sized, as IIRC he died at least partially from injury
> inflicted by an apple which embedded itself in his body.
NOOOOOOOOOO -- you gave away the twist ending!
-- wds
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Suck it up, spoilerphobe! MUAAAHAHAH!
DouhetSukd
more French than I tend to be. He agreed with me that, from what he
had seen, much of the French SF novel-size output is not all that
great. I.e. the guys that he's read based on knowledgeable French
people's recommendations are generally so-so, with some exceptions. I
borrowed one of his books and I'll see what comes out of it.
Juho Julkunen
23b569...@z3g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, DouhetSukd
(douhe...@gmail.com) says...
A friend of mine just commented that one should read SF by American
authors and their biographies by French.
--
Juho Julkunen
David Duffy
Some people seem to like Elizabeth Vonarburg.
robo
spec-lit I've read recently...
Babylon AD, Cosmos Incorporated and Grand Junction all written by Maurice
Dantec
(Bablyon AD, I feel was marred by a flawed translation, but I still thought
it was a wonderful read).
Dantec is not for everyone, he's kind of weird cross between Nietzsche and
Philip k. Dick.
Turing's Delerium by Edmundo Paz Soldan (SF/Thriller)
Zig Zag by Jose Carlos Samoza (Sf/Time Travel Thriller)
The Feline Plague by Maja Novak (fantasy, but Slovenian fantasy with a
touch of Voodoo, strange but compelling)
Ice by Vladimir Sorokin (SF, I just wish they'd translate more his stuff)
The Sacred Book of the Werewolfe by Victor Pevlin (fantasy again)
War with the Newts and RUR by Kapek (classics)
There are a couple of recent collection, as well:
The Black Mirror and Other Stories, features German SF
The SFWA European Hall of Fame, edited by James Morrow has some good stories
Taemon
it's been translated. I get a lot of (translated to Dutch) German fantasy
for my side-job as a reviewer for the public library, and most of it is
laugably bad. But then, I think that goes for most fantasy.
I should have asked for science fiction.
/me thinks of bad science fiction as opposed to bad fantasy
Nah.
T.
robo
sf. The reviews seems tepid, but I'm curious how other cultures handle the
familar tropes of sf.