Re: Dammit, I'm an engineer, not a pilot!
Derek Lyons
>>>> >> Now, there's a reason for that. The blind person is driven up to the
>>>> >> window, while sitting in the *back driver side seat* - they proceed
>>>> >> with their transaction from there.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, you need to see the screen, but the DRIVER could read that to
>>>> him/her
You try sitting in a typical car as the driver and try reading an ATM
screen positioned so that someone in the back seat can reach the
buttons.
Ain't happening unless you're an expert contortionist.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Kurt Busiek
>
>>>>>>> Now, there's a reason for that. The blind person is driven up to the
>>>>>>> window, while sitting in the *back driver side seat* - they proceed
>>>>>>> with their transaction from there.
>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, you need to see the screen, but the DRIVER could read that to
>>>>> him/her
>
> You try sitting in a typical car as the driver and try reading an ATM
> screen positioned so that someone in the back seat can reach the
> buttons.
>
> Ain't happening unless you're an expert contortionist.
I always figured that the reason drive-up ATMs have Braille on them is
because walk-up ATMs do, and once you're making keypads with Braille on
them, there's no reason to go to the added expense of making keypads
_without_ Braille on them.
Make 'em all the same, and you get the cost savings that making them
all the same brings; it doesn't matter that no one will use that
feature on the drive-up version; it's not hurting anyone by being
there, and it's cheaper to do only one run of keypads.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Joe Pfeiffer
> "Wickeddoll" <n...@chance.dude> found these unused words:
>
>>"Tim Bruening"
>>>> "Anim8rFSK"
>>>> > "Wickeddoll" wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >> http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/14/reading-rainbow-host-in-car-accident/
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Natalie
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I blame the ADA for forcing banks to put in braille drive-through
>>>> >> > ATMs
>>>> >> > in the first place.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Now, there's a reason for that. The blind person is driven up to the
>>>> >> window, while sitting in the *back driver side seat* - they proceed
>>>> >> with
>>>> >> their transaction from there.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Natalie
>>>> >
>>>> > No ma'am. That is NOT the reason for that. The reason is, the ADA was
>>>> > so poorly written and implemented, that putting in braille drive up
>>>> > ATMs
>>>> > was simply the cheapest and easiest way to comply with it.
>>>> >
>>>> > And, no, the blind person can't work an ATM from the back seat. You
>>>> > need to be able to read the screen.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/946/why-is-there-braille-on-driv
>>>> > e-up-teller-machines
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm - you saying that teller lied to me?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, you need to see the screen, but the DRIVER could read that to
>>>> him/her
>>>
>>> Why don't the banks have ATM screens that can talk?
>>>
>>
>>Probably because that would be prohibitively expensive.
>>
> Not any more expensive than the braille keypads. But typical of the gummint
> stupidity in believing that blind people drive cars!
I'll have to check next time I'm at an ATM, but I could swear the ones
in town here have headphone jacks.
Also, remember people (sighted and not) do walk up to drive-up ATMs, as well.
--
Klingon programs don't have parameters. They have arguments and win
them (Walter Bushell)
David DeLaney
>On 2009-07-29 07:37:19 -0700, fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) said:
>> You try sitting in a typical car as the driver and try reading an ATM
>> screen positioned so that someone in the back seat can reach the
>> buttons.
>>
>> Ain't happening unless you're an expert contortionist.
>
>I always figured that the reason drive-up ATMs have Braille on them is
>because walk-up ATMs do, and once you're making keypads with Braille on
>them, there's no reason to go to the added expense of making keypads
>_without_ Braille on them.
Exactly. Plus, it's perfectly possible to WALK up to, and use, most drive-up
ATMs. When I had my previous car, I would generally do this, because of a
combination of "window position in the car" and "extreme difficulty in
rolling that particular window back up once it was down".
>Make 'em all the same, and you get the cost savings that making them
>all the same brings; it doesn't matter that no one will use that
>feature on the drive-up version; it's not hurting anyone by being
>there, and it's cheaper to do only one run of keypads.
Yep yep. And if you have two versions available, sooner or later the wrong
one will get installed in some place or other.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Wickeddoll
At the banks I've seen, it's usually prohibited to walk up to them, due to
the hazard of a car not seeing the mutton-head using a drive thru as a
walkup.
Natalie
--
"Wicked little doll, you have no soul"
(David Byrne, 1997)
http://www.supernaturalusa.net
Wickeddoll
>>"Anim8rFSK"
>>
>>>> "Tim Bruening"
>>> not have them push the buttons? It can't be to keep the driver from
>>> seeing your PIN 'cause, you know, how would the blind person know they
>>> really looked away?
>>>> >
>>>> > Why don't the banks have ATM screens that can talk?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Probably because that would be prohibitively expensive.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And because it won't work. People nearby are going to be able to hear
>>> it. And since you can't see what's on the screen, it's going to have to
>>> repeat - out loud - your information, like a phone menu.
>>> "Your-PIN-is-3-4-5-6-is-that-correct-?" You'd need an ATM in a enclosed
>>> booth, and obviously that defeats the idea of a drive through ATM. One
>>> pictures the GET SMART cone of silence descending over the hapless blind
>>> person leaning out the back seat of the car . . .
>>>
>>> And you're only working on making an ATM for the blind, not for all
>>> disabled. And you'd have to make a talking ATM that had to speak how
>>> many languages? And how do you make the initial selection to tell it
>>> what language to speak to you in?
>>>
>>
>>
>>Good points, all.
>>
>>ATMs are a tool of Satan.
>>
>>Natalie
>
> So is money ...
>
> send me yours for your salvation!
>
Nice try...
Howard Brazee
<jaS...@gbr.online.com> wrote:
>Not any more expensive than the braille keypads. But typical of the gummint
>stupidity in believing that blind people drive cars!
Jumping to conclusions, are you?
I suppose it's funnier not to stop and think of more reasonable
explanations to what you have noticed.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:h4pv7l...@news.evilcabal.org:
>>>>>> > braille-on-driv e-up-teller-machines
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmmm - you saying that teller lied to me?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, you need to see the screen, but the DRIVER could read
>>>>>> that to him/her
>>>>>
>>>>> Why don't the banks have ATM screens that can talk?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Probably because that would be prohibitively expensive.
>>>>
>>> Not any more expensive than the braille keypads. But typical
>>> of the gummint
>>> stupidity in believing that blind people drive cars!
>>
>> I'll have to check next time I'm at an ATM, but I could swear
>> the ones in town here have headphone jacks.
>>
>> Also, remember people (sighted and not) do walk up to drive-up
>> ATMs, as well.
>
>
> At the banks I've seen, it's usually prohibited to walk up to
> them, due to the hazard of a car not seeing the mutton-head
> using a drive thru as a walkup.
>
Not all ATMs are drive-through. There are not seperate models for
those that are.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
>>> to hear it. And since you can't see what's on the screen,
>>> it's going to have to repeat - out loud - your information,
>>> like a phone menu. "Your-PIN-is-3-4-5-6-is-that-correct-?"
>>> You'd need an ATM in a enclosed booth, and obviously that
>>> defeats the idea of a drive through ATM. One pictures the GET
>>> SMART cone of silence descending over the hapless blind person
>>> leaning out the back seat of the car . . .
Er, dude, does your ATM show your PIN on the screen while you type
it? Cuz every ATM I've ever seen either shows nothing, or shows
stars. So why is it that sighted people can tell they typed in the
right PIN without seeing it on the screen, but blind people can't?
Quadibloc
> I'll have to check next time I'm at an ATM, but I could swear the ones
> in town here have headphone jacks.
Some do even in my town, in primitive Canada. But not all of them.
John Savard
Jon Schild
Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
> "Wickeddoll" <n...@chance.dude> found these unused words:
>
>
Blind people WALK UP to ATMs, frequently. There is no law that says an
ATM is usable only from a car.
I wouldn't think ANYONE would be stupid enough to even think of the idea
that ATMs are useable from cars only, and that braille on the keypad is
meant to accommodate blind drivers.
--
Wanted dead and/or alive: Shroedinger's cat.
Joe Pfeiffer
>
> Blind people WALK UP to ATMs, frequently. There is no law that says an
> ATM is usable only from a car.
>
> I wouldn't think ANYONE would be stupid enough to even think of the
> idea that ATMs are useable from cars only, and that braille on the
> keypad is meant to accommodate blind drivers.
And, having yesterday, it turns out that ATMs -- at least the one I was
at yesterday, do have headphone jacks. Presumably they do indeed talk.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:h4troj$h2l$3...@news.xmission.com:
>
>
> Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
>> "Wickeddoll" <n...@chance.dude> found these unused words:
>>
>>
>>>"Tim Bruening"
>>>
>>>>>"Anim8rFSK"
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Wickeddoll" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/14/reading-rainbow-host-in-car-
>>>>>>>>>accident/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Natalie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I blame the ADA for forcing banks to put in braille
>>>>>>>>drive-through ATMs
>>>>>>>>in the first place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now, there's a reason for that. The blind person is driven
>>>>>>>up to the window, while sitting in the *back driver side
>>>>>>>seat* - they proceed with
>>>>>>>their transaction from there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Natalie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No ma'am. That is NOT the reason for that. The reason is,
>>>>>>the ADA was so poorly written and implemented, that putting
>>>>>>in braille drive up ATMs
>>>>>>was simply the cheapest and easiest way to comply with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And, no, the blind person can't work an ATM from the back
>>>>>>seat. You need to be able to read the screen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/946/why-is-there-bra
>>>>>>ille-on-driv e-up-teller-machines
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hmmm - you saying that teller lied to me?
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, you need to see the screen, but the DRIVER could read
>>>>>that to him/her
>>>>
>>>>Why don't the banks have ATM screens that can talk?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Probably because that would be prohibitively expensive.
>>>
>>
>> Not any more expensive than the braille keypads. But typical of
>> the gummint stupidity in believing that blind people drive
>> cars!
>
> Blind people WALK UP to ATMs, frequently. There is no law that
> says an ATM is usable only from a car.
>
> I wouldn't think ANYONE would be stupid enough to even think of
> the idea that ATMs are useable from cars only, and that braille
> on the keypad is meant to accommodate blind drivers.
>
Some are usable from cars only, in drive-through lanes that would
be quite dangerous to walk through. And those, universally, have
braille. There reason for this, naturally, is that the banks, not
being retards, use the exact same models of ATM in the drive-
through installations as any other, because it costs less than a
customized version of limited production.
Yammering retards, like Rein, yammer, retardedly, because they have
tiny little penises, and feel compelled to prove it, by acting like
they have tiny little penises over how stupid the "gummint" is.
Stupidity is an infinite resource.
--
Terry Austin
Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. -
Robert Carnegie
You need a guy with a red flag to go with you.
By the way
<http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/946/why-is-there-braille-on-
drive-up-teller-machines>
is dated 1994. "4.34.4 of the ADA Accessibility Guidelines for
Buildings and Facilities (Appendix to Part 1191, 36 CFR Chapter XI,
issued pursuant to the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990) says,
"Instructions and all information for use [of an automated teller
machine] shall be made accessible to and independently usable by
persons with vision impairments." It really is required that /all/
ATMs installed where the ADA applies are to be vision impairment
accessible.
I'd suppose that a telephone handset connected to a bank call centre
would be easier than a headphone socket which is hard to find anyway
unless it's in the same place on every ATM. So I guess it is. But
something bad could be done to the telephone set, e.g. smearing it
with glue. For that matter, the wireless loop communicator designed
for a hearing aid would be more private than loudspeakers, unless
someone deliberately uses a device to tune in from nearby. Kind of
dumb maybe to make a blind person use a hearing aid, but I figure it'd
work.
Alarming to hear about Commander LaForge's accident, I hope he is
okay. Character named after prominent Trek fan and muscular dystrophy
sufferer, which I don't think involves blindness but it may do, the
late George La Forge. Anyway, they did give him robot eyeballs in the
Trek movies.
As I recall, the VISOR was painful to use but gave him superhuman
vision which was particularly useful for spotting science fiction type
radiation. In extensive quotes in Wikipedia, it seems it's painful
for the actor to wear the thing and ironically you can barely see.
One novel story also indicates the engineering department looks like
an LSD trip to him, and it's legal. Well, I exaggerated a little
there. It's pretty. And if it turns into a /bad/ trip, he doesn't
have to wait for Majel B-R to tell him so. (She did the computer
voice throughout, I understand. She also pursued Captain Picard
romantically. A difficult combination for Picard.)