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Joseph Nebus
Mar 20, 2013, 5:04:41 PM3/20/13
to
(Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
a broad view of the subject.)
Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
--
http://nebusresearch.wordpress.com/ Joseph Nebus
Current Entry: On Peeking At Cedar Point http://wp.me/p1RYhY-qI
--------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
Moriarty
Mar 20, 2013, 5:23:45 PM3/20/13
to
On Mar 21, 8:04 am, nebu...@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
> aroundhttp://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html)
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
> a broad view of the subject.)
>
> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
> train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
A monorail was described in great detail in one chapter of Iain M
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
> aroundhttp://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html)
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
> a broad view of the subject.)
>
> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
> train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
Banks _Look to Windward_. It was done in such a way as to give an
insight into the workings of the trivial and mundane within the
Culture, and was never mentioned again.
Thinking about it, that pretty much describes most of the chapters in
that book. That's not a criticism, I loved LtW because of the whimsy,
but I can see why others might not.
-Moriarty
Joel Polowin
Mar 20, 2013, 8:23:07 PM3/20/13
to
On Mar 20, 5:04 pm, nebu...@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
> a broad view of the subject.)
>
> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
> train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
There's Gerrold's _Jumping Off The Planet_; most of the plot is
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
> a broad view of the subject.)
>
> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
> train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
on the trip up a space elevator.
Brian M. Scott
Mar 20, 2013, 8:34:40 PM3/20/13
to
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 17:23:07 -0700 (PDT), Joel Polowin
<jpol...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<news:5f31c1cf-e13b-46da...@l9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
> On Mar 20, 5:04�pm, nebu...@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
[...]
>> � � � � Space elevators seem like they ought to be
God_ takes place on a space elevator stuck on its descent to
the planet; the story is in large part a locked room
mystery.
Brian
<jpol...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<news:5f31c1cf-e13b-46da...@l9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
> On Mar 20, 5:04�pm, nebu...@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>> � � � � Space elevators seem like they ought to be
>> well-suited for train/monorail-style stories, but are
>> they?
> There's Gerrold's _Jumping Off The Planet_; most of the
> plot is on the trip up a space elevator.
A very large part of Adam-Troy Castro's _The Third Claw of
>> they?
> There's Gerrold's _Jumping Off The Planet_; most of the
> plot is on the trip up a space elevator.
God_ takes place on a space elevator stuck on its descent to
the planet; the story is in large part a locked room
mystery.
Brian
lal_truckee
Mar 20, 2013, 10:29:13 PM3/20/13
to
On 3/20/13 5:34 PM, Brian M. Scott wrote:
> A very large part of Adam-Troy Castro's _The Third Claw of
> God_ takes place on a space elevator stuck on its descent to
> the planet; the story is in large part a locked room
> mystery.
Why did it have to get stuck? Isn't a week or so isolated during descent
> A very large part of Adam-Troy Castro's _The Third Claw of
> God_ takes place on a space elevator stuck on its descent to
> the planet; the story is in large part a locked room
> mystery.
enough time for the plot?
Was there an explanation?
James Nicoll
Mar 20, 2013, 10:54:58 PM3/20/13
to
In article <kid899$ns$1...@reader2.panix.com>,
adventure but not without their points of interest (although I've
become convinced the Solar Guard needs a protocol to cover when
an officer has been framed for a crime, because it seems to happen
with some frequency).
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
>
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
Say, did people want those posted here? Short version: 1950s space
>
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
adventure but not without their points of interest (although I've
become convinced the Solar Guard needs a protocol to cover when
an officer has been framed for a crime, because it seems to happen
with some frequency).
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Andrew Plotkin
Mar 20, 2013, 11:06:56 PM3/20/13
to
Did you want spoilers or just reassurance? I popped open my copy to
the stoppage scene, but I didn't skim past that and I don't feel like
re-reading the book right now.
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
Dorothy J Heydt
Mar 20, 2013, 11:38:01 PM3/20/13
to
In article <kidsq1$o8q$1...@reader2.panix.com>,
character carried through was Commodore Arkwright -- who was not
blind in the series.
I remember reading an article during its heyday, about how the
guy who played Tom Corbett, in addition to making his own
Wheaties commercials, was expected to meet fans after the (live)
telecast. They would ask him all sorts of space-related
questions which of course the actor didn't know how to answer.
So they fixed an earbud in his ear, stood him in front of a
curtain, and had Willey Ley standing behind the curtain to
provide the actor with answers. The title of the article was
"Whispering Willy."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <kid899$ns$1...@reader2.panix.com>,
>Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
>>
>> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>>to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>>around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>Say, did people want those posted here? Short version: 1950s space
>adventure but not without their points of interest (although I've
>become convinced the Solar Guard needs a protocol to cover when
>an officer has been framed for a crime, because it seems to happen
>with some frequency).
*Very Loosely* based on Heinlein's _Space Cadet._ About the only
>In article <kid899$ns$1...@reader2.panix.com>,
>Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
>>
>> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>>to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>>around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>Say, did people want those posted here? Short version: 1950s space
>adventure but not without their points of interest (although I've
>become convinced the Solar Guard needs a protocol to cover when
>an officer has been framed for a crime, because it seems to happen
>with some frequency).
character carried through was Commodore Arkwright -- who was not
blind in the series.
I remember reading an article during its heyday, about how the
guy who played Tom Corbett, in addition to making his own
Wheaties commercials, was expected to meet fans after the (live)
telecast. They would ask him all sorts of space-related
questions which of course the actor didn't know how to answer.
So they fixed an earbud in his ear, stood him in front of a
curtain, and had Willey Ley standing behind the curtain to
provide the actor with answers. The title of the article was
"Whispering Willy."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Mar 20, 2013, 11:49:38 PM3/20/13
to
In article <MJzrF...@kithrup.com>,
There were TC books as well. I read the first one, and recall it being
above average. (And definitely in the _Space Cadet_ mode).
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
above average. (And definitely in the _Space Cadet_ mode).
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Robert Carnegie
Mar 20, 2013, 11:51:15 PM3/20/13
to
_The Fountains of Paradise_ considers a this-millennium
technology space elevator as more like a railway train,
although the vertical track up to the sky may have
to be built of unobtainium-reinforced diamond-fibre
instead of the ordinary kind. And trips take a while.
There's an incidental long, long elevator ride in
an episode of comedy sci-fi show _Red Dwarf_.
In-flight catering and movie.
Willy Wonka's and Captain Kirk's elevators go sideways
when they have to. So do Douglas Adams's, but those
seem to be resiting their fate and trying to find
a way to escape, which this isn't.
I /think/ Jasper Fforde's _Lost in a Good Book_
starts with an elevated monorail ride disrupted by
sabotage of some kind...?
Otherwise... mass transit for sci-fi usually has
to have a bigger wow-factor than a /train/.
Although the one in Joe Haldeman's _The Long Habit
of Living_ is pretty good.
technology space elevator as more like a railway train,
although the vertical track up to the sky may have
to be built of unobtainium-reinforced diamond-fibre
instead of the ordinary kind. And trips take a while.
There's an incidental long, long elevator ride in
an episode of comedy sci-fi show _Red Dwarf_.
In-flight catering and movie.
Willy Wonka's and Captain Kirk's elevators go sideways
when they have to. So do Douglas Adams's, but those
seem to be resiting their fate and trying to find
a way to escape, which this isn't.
I /think/ Jasper Fforde's _Lost in a Good Book_
starts with an elevated monorail ride disrupted by
sabotage of some kind...?
Otherwise... mass transit for sci-fi usually has
to have a bigger wow-factor than a /train/.
Although the one in Joe Haldeman's _The Long Habit
of Living_ is pretty good.
David DeLaney
Mar 21, 2013, 2:13:35 AM3/21/13
to
Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
>guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
>a broad view of the subject.)
>
> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
>train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
Do "monorails" include pressurized-tube-through-planet versions, in your eyes?
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
>guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
>a broad view of the subject.)
>
> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
>train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
Dave, those are sometimes "zerorail"
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Wayne Throop
Mar 21, 2013, 1:50:51 AM3/21/13
to
:: Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
: Do "monorails" include pressurized-tube-through-planet versions,
: in your eyes?
On that train all graphite and glitter
Undersea by rail
Ninety minutes from new york to paris
--- IGY, Steely Dan
Evacuated straight tubes along with dropping the train and having
it "powered by gravity". For a few moments way back when, I thought
Steely Dan had used the right figure (just about) for all such trains no
matter where the endpoints... but no, a bit over 42 minutes is correct.
90 minutes is a full orbit, but the straight-train time is a half-orbit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_train
However... why "pressurized tube? Doesn't that limit the speed?
And then, there's Zahn's quadrail system. Not a monorail of course,
but train, sure.
"Toki Wartooth, not a bumblebee."
--- from Metalocalypse's intro song
:: train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
: d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
: Do "monorails" include pressurized-tube-through-planet versions,
: in your eyes?
On that train all graphite and glitter
Undersea by rail
Ninety minutes from new york to paris
--- IGY, Steely Dan
Evacuated straight tubes along with dropping the train and having
it "powered by gravity". For a few moments way back when, I thought
Steely Dan had used the right figure (just about) for all such trains no
matter where the endpoints... but no, a bit over 42 minutes is correct.
90 minutes is a full orbit, but the straight-train time is a half-orbit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_train
However... why "pressurized tube? Doesn't that limit the speed?
And then, there's Zahn's quadrail system. Not a monorail of course,
but train, sure.
"Toki Wartooth, not a bumblebee."
--- from Metalocalypse's intro song
David DeLaney
Mar 21, 2013, 5:53:38 AM3/21/13
to
On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 05:50:51 GMT, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
>: Do "monorails" include pressurized-tube-through-planet versions,
>: in your eyes?
>
>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
>: Do "monorails" include pressurized-tube-through-planet versions,
>: in your eyes?
>
>However... why "pressurized tube? Doesn't that limit the speed?
I may have momentarily flipped the sign in my head from 'evacuated'. Research
is ongoing. Or else because you get a better view out the windows with all
that fluorescing air plasma.
>And then, there's Zahn's quadrail system. Not a monorail of course,
>but train, sure.
Anthony Nance
Mar 21, 2013, 9:33:06 AM3/21/13
to
Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
>
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
> around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
Iirc, ACC's _Earthlight_ used them pretty liberally and importantly.
>
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
> around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
- Tony
ncw...@gmail.com
Mar 21, 2013, 10:32:41 AM3/21/13
to
On Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:51:15 AM UTC+1, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> Otherwise... mass transit for sci-fi usually has
> to have a bigger wow-factor than a /train/.
There's always "The Railways Up on Cannis", one of Colin Kapp's Unorthodox Engineer stories.
> Otherwise... mass transit for sci-fi usually has
> to have a bigger wow-factor than a /train/.
Cheers,
Nigel.
Scott Lurndal
Mar 21, 2013, 10:51:57 AM3/21/13
to
nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) writes:
>
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
>guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
>a broad view of the subject.)
>
> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
>train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
>
Can't recall which, but perhaps Clarke or Heinlein had a trackless
>
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
>guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
>a broad view of the subject.)
>
> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
>train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
>
train that flew through periodical pylon hoops in one of their
stories (against the fall of night, perhaps?).
scott
lal_truckee
Mar 21, 2013, 11:48:52 AM3/21/13
to
On 3/21/13 7:51 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Can't recall which, but perhaps Clarke or Heinlein had a trackless
> train that flew through periodical pylon hoops in one of their
> stories (against the fall of night, perhaps?).
Heinlein had the Chicago, Springfield, & Earthport Ring Road in "Starman
> Can't recall which, but perhaps Clarke or Heinlein had a trackless
> train that flew through periodical pylon hoops in one of their
> stories (against the fall of night, perhaps?).
Jones." Guided through elevated rings and tunnels.
Clarke had underground (possibly gravity powered?) high speed subways in
evacuated tunnels maybe in "Against the Fall of Night and definitely in
"The City and the Stars" rewrite.
Dorothy J Heydt
Mar 21, 2013, 1:33:15 PM3/21/13
to
there's Melissa Scott's _Mighty Good Road._
And that anime about space-going railroads, whose title I forget.
In not untypical anime fashion, all the characters are either
tall and willowy and beautiful *or* squat and stubby.
Dorothy J Heydt
Mar 21, 2013, 1:33:48 PM3/21/13
to
David Dyer-Bennet
Mar 21, 2013, 2:39:43 PM3/21/13
to
nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) writes:
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
> around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
> a broad view of the subject.)
Looks like the Cafe Press store is still there with the Lunar Transport
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
> around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
> a broad view of the subject.)
mug, giving a simplified route diagram.
<http://www.cafepress.com/speceng.30265526>.
--
Googleproofaddress(account:dd-b provider:dd-b domain:net)
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
Brian M. Scott
Mar 21, 2013, 3:52:23 PM3/21/13
to
On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 17:33:15 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt
<djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in <news:MK0u3...@kithrup.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> If we're going from monorails to space-going trains
> generally, there's Melissa Scott's _Mighty Good Road._
Let us not forget Michael Coney's _The Celestial Steam
Locomotive_.
[...]
Brian
<djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in <news:MK0u3...@kithrup.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> If we're going from monorails to space-going trains
> generally, there's Melissa Scott's _Mighty Good Road._
Locomotive_.
[...]
Brian
Larry Moore
Mar 21, 2013, 4:09:23 PM3/21/13
to
--
"I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use
as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to
use my telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup (originator of C++)
[quoted: International Conference on Intelligent User Interfaces 2003]
David Johnston
Mar 21, 2013, 10:03:22 PM3/21/13
to
On 3/21/2013 11:33 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <slrnkkljj...@gatekeeper.vic.com>,
> David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dave, wagon train TO THE STARRRRS!
>
> No, that was the original concept for Star Trek.
>
No, that was the pitch which isn't the same thing. I've given some
> In article <slrnkkljj...@gatekeeper.vic.com>,
> David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dave, wagon train TO THE STARRRRS!
>
> No, that was the original concept for Star Trek.
>
consideration to what an actual series about a passenger liner moving
steadily outward to the fringes of known space would be like.
David DeLaney
Mar 21, 2013, 11:02:05 PM3/21/13
to
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>>Dave, wagon train TO THE STARRRRS!
>
>No, that was the original concept for Star Trek.
... so you're saying its plots did NOT run on rails?
>David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>>Dave, wagon train TO THE STARRRRS!
>
>No, that was the original concept for Star Trek.
Dave, it even had Indians!
Howard Brazee
Mar 21, 2013, 10:50:20 PM3/21/13
to
What's so special about monorails? One or two or 5 rails don't
really change the mode of transportation.
--
Anybody who agrees with one side all of the time or disagrees with the
other side all of the time is equally guilty of letting others do
their thinking for them.
really change the mode of transportation.
--
Anybody who agrees with one side all of the time or disagrees with the
other side all of the time is equally guilty of letting others do
their thinking for them.
James Silverton
Mar 21, 2013, 10:53:30 PM3/21/13
to
On 3/21/2013 10:50 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> What's so special about monorails? One or two or 5 rails don't
> really change the mode of transportation.
>
I don't know much about these things but I have the notion that a train
> What's so special about monorails? One or two or 5 rails don't
> really change the mode of transportation.
>
may hang from a monorail rather than ride on it.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
J. Clarke
Mar 21, 2013, 11:39:03 PM3/21/13
to
In article <kiggva$sq2$1...@dont-email.me>, not.jim....@verizon.net
says...
rail, the Wuppertal Schwebebahn is suspended.
The original benefit was that it was a workaround for the hunting
oscillation in dual-rail systems that limited speed, but other solutions
were developed allowing dual-rail systems to achieve high speeds.
Currently the main benefit seems to be that the single rail takes up
less airspace than a dual-rail system.
says...
>
> On 3/21/2013 10:50 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> > What's so special about monorails? One or two or 5 rails don't
> > really change the mode of transportation.
> >
> I don't know much about these things but I have the notion that a train
> may hang from a monorail rather than ride on it.
It can go either way. The monorail at Disneyland rides on top of the
> On 3/21/2013 10:50 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> > What's so special about monorails? One or two or 5 rails don't
> > really change the mode of transportation.
> >
> I don't know much about these things but I have the notion that a train
> may hang from a monorail rather than ride on it.
rail, the Wuppertal Schwebebahn is suspended.
The original benefit was that it was a workaround for the hunting
oscillation in dual-rail systems that limited speed, but other solutions
were developed allowing dual-rail systems to achieve high speeds.
Currently the main benefit seems to be that the single rail takes up
less airspace than a dual-rail system.
sfeam
Mar 22, 2013, 2:12:32 AM3/22/13
to
Joseph Nebus wrote:
>
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
> around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I
> say, a broad view of the subject.)
The setting of Christopher Priest's _Inverted World_
>
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
> around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I
> say, a broad view of the subject.)
is a habitat of some sort moving along rails of some sort.
To say more would constitute a major spoiler, but you can find
a summary on Wikipedia.
The setting of John M Ford's "Alternities" stories could be described
as a monorail/train tunnel passing alongside alternate universes,
but the train is missing, the would-be passengers must walk,
and the readers are left wanting a more complete explication.
Come to think of it, John Crowley's _Great Work of Time_ has much
the same conceit except that it is ambiguous whether the train through
alternate realities or a single continuously mutable reality.
- Ethan
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Mar 22, 2013, 2:20:47 AM3/22/13
to
In article <kigsks$67h$1...@dont-email.me>,
It just seemed all depressing and pointless to me.
sfeam <sf...@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>Joseph Nebus wrote:
>
>>
>> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>> around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>>
>>
>> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
>> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I
>> say, a broad view of the subject.)
>
>The setting of Christopher Priest's _Inverted World_
>is a habitat of some sort moving along rails of some sort.
>To say more would constitute a major spoiler, but you can find
>a summary on Wikipedia.
>
I read the whole thing, but apparently never *got* whatever the spoiler was.
>Joseph Nebus wrote:
>
>>
>> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>> around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>>
>>
>> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
>> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I
>> say, a broad view of the subject.)
>
>The setting of Christopher Priest's _Inverted World_
>is a habitat of some sort moving along rails of some sort.
>To say more would constitute a major spoiler, but you can find
>a summary on Wikipedia.
>
It just seemed all depressing and pointless to me.
Stephen Harker
Mar 22, 2013, 2:51:58 AM3/22/13
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
> In article <13638...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>:: Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
>>:: train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
>>
>>: d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
>>: Do "monorails" include pressurized-tube-through-planet versions,
>>: in your eyes?
>>
>> On that train all graphite and glitter
>> Undersea by rail
>> Ninety minutes from new york to paris
>> --- IGY, Steely Dan
>>
>>Evacuated straight tubes along with dropping the train and having
>>it "powered by gravity". For a few moments way back when, I thought
>>Steely Dan had used the right figure (just about) for all such trains no
>>matter where the endpoints... but no, a bit over 42 minutes is correct.
>>90 minutes is a full orbit, but the straight-train time is a half-orbit.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_train
>>
>>However... why "pressurized tube? Doesn't that limit the speed?
>>
>>And then, there's Zahn's quadrail system. Not a monorail of course,
>>but train, sure.
>
> If we're going from monorails to space-going trains generally,
> there's Melissa Scott's _Mighty Good Road._
>
Another one is Richard K Lyon and Andrew J Offutt's _Rails Across the
> In article <13638...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>:: Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
>>:: train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
>>
>>: d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
>>: Do "monorails" include pressurized-tube-through-planet versions,
>>: in your eyes?
>>
>> On that train all graphite and glitter
>> Undersea by rail
>> Ninety minutes from new york to paris
>> --- IGY, Steely Dan
>>
>>Evacuated straight tubes along with dropping the train and having
>>it "powered by gravity". For a few moments way back when, I thought
>>Steely Dan had used the right figure (just about) for all such trains no
>>matter where the endpoints... but no, a bit over 42 minutes is correct.
>>90 minutes is a full orbit, but the straight-train time is a half-orbit.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_train
>>
>>However... why "pressurized tube? Doesn't that limit the speed?
>>
>>And then, there's Zahn's quadrail system. Not a monorail of course,
>>but train, sure.
>
> If we're going from monorails to space-going trains generally,
> there's Melissa Scott's _Mighty Good Road._
>
Galaxy_ http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1032861
--
Stephen Harker s.ha...@adfa.edu.au
PEMS http://sjharker.customer.netspace.net.au/
UNSW@ADFA
David Goldfarb
Mar 22, 2013, 3:56:07 AM3/22/13
to
In article <MK0u3...@kithrup.com>,
characters have that particular dichotomy to a great degree.)
--
David Goldfarb |"We went to a movie, some monsters or aliens were
goldf...@gmail.com |destroying New York as usual (this is LA's way
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |of telling Manhattan it cares)."
| -- Salman Rushdie
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>And that anime about space-going railroads, whose title I forget.
>In not untypical anime fashion, all the characters are either
>tall and willowy and beautiful *or* squat and stubby.
Likely _Galaxy Express 999_, by Leiji Matsumoto. (Matsumoto's
>In not untypical anime fashion, all the characters are either
>tall and willowy and beautiful *or* squat and stubby.
characters have that particular dichotomy to a great degree.)
--
David Goldfarb |"We went to a movie, some monsters or aliens were
goldf...@gmail.com |destroying New York as usual (this is LA's way
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |of telling Manhattan it cares)."
| -- Salman Rushdie
David DeLaney
Mar 22, 2013, 6:35:32 AM3/22/13
to
Dave
David DeLaney
Mar 22, 2013, 6:38:20 AM3/22/13
to
>> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>
>
>The setting of Christopher Priest's _Inverted World_
>is a habitat of some sort moving along rails of some sort.
>To say more would constitute a major spoiler, but you can find
>a summary on Wikipedia.
You have to give it this, it's a setting unlike any other I've seen in SF.
>is a habitat of some sort moving along rails of some sort.
>To say more would constitute a major spoiler, but you can find
>a summary on Wikipedia.
>The setting of John M Ford's "Alternities" stories could be described
>as a monorail/train tunnel passing alongside alternate universes,
>but the train is missing, the would-be passengers must walk,
>and the readers are left wanting a more complete explication.
I'm thinking of correctly. Later they manage to build a monorail in it, down
the center.
>Come to think of it, John Crowley's _Great Work of Time_ has much
>the same conceit except that it is ambiguous whether the train through
>alternate realities or a single continuously mutable reality.
sometimes there are tunnels.
david.sh...@ymail.com
Mar 22, 2013, 11:05:25 AM3/22/13
to
On Mar 21, 10:03 pm, David Johnston <davidjohnsto...@block.com> wrote:
> On 3/21/2013 11:33 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
> > In article <slrnkkljjn.ep8....@gatekeeper.vic.com>,
> On 3/21/2013 11:33 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
> > David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>
> >> Dave, wagon train TO THE STARRRRS!
>
> > No, that was the original concept for Star Trek.
>
> No, that was the pitch which isn't the same thing.
And when people quote this pitch nowadays, it is easy
>
> >> Dave, wagon train TO THE STARRRRS!
>
> > No, that was the original concept for Star Trek.
>
> No, that was the pitch which isn't the same thing.
for them to forget that the "Wagon Train" referred to
was a successful television series, which may have
been the only example in the early 1960s of a television
series centered on a largish group of people traveling
together, and their encounters.
lal_truckee
Mar 22, 2013, 11:36:11 AM3/22/13
to
On 3/22/13 8:05 AM, david.sh...@ymail.com wrote:
> a television
> series centered on a largish group of people traveling
> together, and their encounters.
Maybe it was Grand Hotel on wheels?
> a television
> series centered on a largish group of people traveling
> together, and their encounters.
lal_truckee
Mar 22, 2013, 11:40:00 AM3/22/13
to
On 3/20/13 2:04 PM, Joseph Nebus wrote:
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
Open query? Weren't the Keeps in "Clash By Night" linked by some kind of
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
undersea tube rail system?
Dorothy J Heydt
Mar 22, 2013, 11:46:25 AM3/22/13
to
In article <16b93739-97cb-448d...@p5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
Which presumably is why Roddenberry used it as his analogy.
Dorothy J Heydt
Mar 22, 2013, 11:47:42 AM3/22/13
to
In article <MK1y1...@kithrup.com>,
once, but I don't *think* I saw it all the way to the end.
Either that or I've forgotten it. :)
David Goldfarb <goldf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>In article <MK0u3...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>And that anime about space-going railroads, whose title I forget.
>>In not untypical anime fashion, all the characters are either
>>tall and willowy and beautiful *or* squat and stubby.
>
>Likely _Galaxy Express 999_, by Leiji Matsumoto. (Matsumoto's
>characters have that particular dichotomy to a great degree.)
That sounds familiar, thanks. I did actually watch some of it
>In article <MK0u3...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>And that anime about space-going railroads, whose title I forget.
>>In not untypical anime fashion, all the characters are either
>>tall and willowy and beautiful *or* squat and stubby.
>
>Likely _Galaxy Express 999_, by Leiji Matsumoto. (Matsumoto's
>characters have that particular dichotomy to a great degree.)
once, but I don't *think* I saw it all the way to the end.
Either that or I've forgotten it. :)
Dorothy J Heydt
Mar 22, 2013, 11:54:26 AM3/22/13
to
In article <slrnkkoaj...@gatekeeper.vic.com>,
journey through realities. When Corwin actually reached Amber,
or the outskirts thereof, it all turned into palace politics. I
did finish reading it, and got about ankle-deep into the second
volume before pronouncing the 8DW.
Hal read all ten volumes. I don't know how he did it.
David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:12:32 -0700, sfeam <sf...@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>Joseph Nebus wrote:
>>> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>>
>>The setting of Christopher Priest's _Inverted World_
>>is a habitat of some sort moving along rails of some sort.
>>To say more would constitute a major spoiler, but you can find
>>a summary on Wikipedia.
>
>You have to give it this, it's a setting unlike any other I've seen in SF.
>
>>The setting of John M Ford's "Alternities" stories could be described
>>as a monorail/train tunnel passing alongside alternate universes,
>>but the train is missing, the would-be passengers must walk,
>>and the readers are left wanting a more complete explication.
>
>Curiously, this seems to apply to Greg Bear's Eon as well, if that's the book
>I'm thinking of correctly. Later they manage to build a monorail in it, down
>the center.
>
>>Come to think of it, John Crowley's _Great Work of Time_ has much
>>the same conceit except that it is ambiguous whether the train through
>>alternate realities or a single continuously mutable reality.
>
>And of course Amber does it without the train, the tunnel, or the rail, though
>sometimes there are tunnels.
Now, _Nine Princes_ fascinated me for about the first half, the
>On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:12:32 -0700, sfeam <sf...@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>Joseph Nebus wrote:
>>> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>>
>>The setting of Christopher Priest's _Inverted World_
>>is a habitat of some sort moving along rails of some sort.
>>To say more would constitute a major spoiler, but you can find
>>a summary on Wikipedia.
>
>You have to give it this, it's a setting unlike any other I've seen in SF.
>
>>The setting of John M Ford's "Alternities" stories could be described
>>as a monorail/train tunnel passing alongside alternate universes,
>>but the train is missing, the would-be passengers must walk,
>>and the readers are left wanting a more complete explication.
>
>Curiously, this seems to apply to Greg Bear's Eon as well, if that's the book
>I'm thinking of correctly. Later they manage to build a monorail in it, down
>the center.
>
>>Come to think of it, John Crowley's _Great Work of Time_ has much
>>the same conceit except that it is ambiguous whether the train through
>>alternate realities or a single continuously mutable reality.
>
>And of course Amber does it without the train, the tunnel, or the rail, though
>sometimes there are tunnels.
journey through realities. When Corwin actually reached Amber,
or the outskirts thereof, it all turned into palace politics. I
did finish reading it, and got about ankle-deep into the second
volume before pronouncing the 8DW.
Hal read all ten volumes. I don't know how he did it.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Mar 22, 2013, 12:09:41 PM3/22/13
to
On 3/22/13 11:47 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <MK1y1...@kithrup.com>,
> David Goldfarb <goldf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <MK0u3...@kithrup.com>,
>> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>> And that anime about space-going railroads, whose title I forget.
>>> In not untypical anime fashion, all the characters are either
>>> tall and willowy and beautiful *or* squat and stubby.
>>
>> Likely _Galaxy Express 999_, by Leiji Matsumoto. (Matsumoto's
>> characters have that particular dichotomy to a great degree.)
>
> That sounds familiar, thanks. I did actually watch some of it
> once, but I don't *think* I saw it all the way to the end.
> Either that or I've forgotten it. :)
>
Takes place in the same universe as Space Pirate Captain Harlock, and
> In article <MK1y1...@kithrup.com>,
> David Goldfarb <goldf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <MK0u3...@kithrup.com>,
>> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>> And that anime about space-going railroads, whose title I forget.
>>> In not untypical anime fashion, all the characters are either
>>> tall and willowy and beautiful *or* squat and stubby.
>>
>> Likely _Galaxy Express 999_, by Leiji Matsumoto. (Matsumoto's
>> characters have that particular dichotomy to a great degree.)
>
> That sounds familiar, thanks. I did actually watch some of it
> once, but I don't *think* I saw it all the way to the end.
> Either that or I've forgotten it. :)
>
sometimes, depending on Matsumoto's mood that day, as Space Battleship
Yamato/ Star Blazers.
GE999 is... strange in many ways.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Mark Zenier
Mar 21, 2013, 7:38:43 PM3/21/13
to
In article <9c647a90-a9a4-4d33...@vv1g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,
Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>Banks _Look to Windward_. It was done in such a way as to give an
>insight into the workings of the trivial and mundane within the
>Culture, and was never mentioned again.
Also in _Look to Windward_, there's the random unauthorized cable
car system over the sector on the Obitial being remodeled,
>Thinking about it, that pretty much describes most of the chapters in
>that book. That's not a criticism, I loved LtW because of the whimsy,
>but I can see why others might not.
Time for a reread...
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>On Mar 21, 8:04�am, nebu...@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>> � � � � (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>> aroundhttp://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html)
>>
>> � � � � What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>> � � � � (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>> aroundhttp://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html)
>>
>> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
>> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>> thinks about a train station momentarily. �(Not monorails, but as I say,
>> a broad view of the subject.)
>>
>> � � � � Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
>> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>> thinks about a train station momentarily. �(Not monorails, but as I say,
>> a broad view of the subject.)
>>
>> train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
>
>A monorail was described in great detail in one chapter of Iain M
>
>Banks _Look to Windward_. It was done in such a way as to give an
>insight into the workings of the trivial and mundane within the
>Culture, and was never mentioned again.
Also in _Look to Windward_, there's the random unauthorized cable
car system over the sector on the Obitial being remodeled,
>Thinking about it, that pretty much describes most of the chapters in
>that book. That's not a criticism, I loved LtW because of the whimsy,
>but I can see why others might not.
Time for a reread...
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
Don Kuenz
Mar 22, 2013, 12:44:52 PM3/22/13
to
It's almost ten years since the day Gene Roddenberry
called me to say he had sold a series to NBC called Star
Trek. "It's going to be a sophisticated Wagon Train to the
Stars," Gene said; and we both laughed. We both laughed
because Gene was making fun of the tunnel-vision thinking
of many television network programming clowns who cannot
perceive of any new property in an original way, but must
tag it in as being "just like The Fugitive, except the guy
running to keep people from taking his blood, which makes
people immortal" (The Immortal), or "similar to Bonanza,
except the father is married to a beautiful Mexican woman"
(High Chaparral), or "its Mannix with a fat detective"
(Cannon), "an old, thin detective" (Barnaby Jones),
"a blind detective" (Longstreet), "a crippled detective"
(Ironside).
"The American public is something I fly over." - television network
programming clown James T. "The Smiling Cobra" Aubrey.
--
Don Kuenz
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Mar 22, 2013, 12:46:18 PM3/22/13
to
how intelligent the script was and how good the acting was.
Robert Carnegie
Mar 22, 2013, 6:05:28 PM3/22/13
to
you needed to. And it /is/ also quite silly, as a
setting. Alice in Wonderland silly, if you think
about it, even /before/ the Cheshire Cat lends
Corwin's son the Vorpal Sword so that - yes, anyway.
Briefly, Corwin tastes responsibility, and properly
placed patriotism, and loses interest in becoming
ruler of, well, the universe. On the other hand,
he still wants to marry his sister, and all of the
family being hundreds of years old and thus unlike
any other potential mates (that they know of) as
well as unlike ordinary people, doesn't make that
a lot better, does it? (Spoiler: he doesn't.)
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Mar 25, 2013, 5:45:28 PM3/25/13
to
On 2013-03-21 13:33:15 -0400, Dorothy J Heydt said:
> In article <13638...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>> :: Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
> In article <13638...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>> :: train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
>>
>>
>> : d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
>> : Do "monorails" include pressurized-tube-through-planet versions,
>> : in your eyes?
>>
>> On that train all graphite and glitter
>> Undersea by rail
>> Ninety minutes from new york to paris
>> --- IGY, Steely Dan
>>
>> Evacuated straight tubes along with dropping the train and having
>> it "powered by gravity". For a few moments way back when, I thought
>> Steely Dan had used the right figure (just about) for all such trains no
>> matter where the endpoints... but no, a bit over 42 minutes is correct.
>> 90 minutes is a full orbit, but the straight-train time is a half-orbit.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_train
>>
>> However... why "pressurized tube? Doesn't that limit the speed?
>>
>> And then, there's Zahn's quadrail system. Not a monorail of course,
>> but train, sure.
>
> If we're going from monorails to space-going trains generally,
> there's Melissa Scott's _Mighty Good Road._
>
>> : Do "monorails" include pressurized-tube-through-planet versions,
>> : in your eyes?
>>
>> On that train all graphite and glitter
>> Undersea by rail
>> Ninety minutes from new york to paris
>> --- IGY, Steely Dan
>>
>> Evacuated straight tubes along with dropping the train and having
>> it "powered by gravity". For a few moments way back when, I thought
>> Steely Dan had used the right figure (just about) for all such trains no
>> matter where the endpoints... but no, a bit over 42 minutes is correct.
>> 90 minutes is a full orbit, but the straight-train time is a half-orbit.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_train
>>
>> However... why "pressurized tube? Doesn't that limit the speed?
>>
>> And then, there's Zahn's quadrail system. Not a monorail of course,
>> but train, sure.
>
> If we're going from monorails to space-going trains generally,
> there's Melissa Scott's _Mighty Good Road._
>
> And that anime about space-going railroads, whose title I forget.
> In not untypical anime fashion, all the characters are either
> tall and willowy and beautiful *or* squat and stubby.
"Galaxy Express 999." A rather odd story even for anime.
> In not untypical anime fashion, all the characters are either
> tall and willowy and beautiful *or* squat and stubby.
--
Now available on Amazon or B&N: One-Eyed Jack.
Greg Kraft could see ghosts. That didn't mean he could stop them...
John F. Eldredge
May 23, 2013, 5:30:35 PM5/23/13
to
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 21:04:41 +0000, Joseph Nebus wrote:
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening to _Tom
> Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over around
> http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening to _Tom
> Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over around
> http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein guy
> and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
> a broad view of the subject.)
>
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein guy
> and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
> a broad view of the subject.)
>
> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
> train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
There is a related sub-genre of interstellar trains that move from one
> train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
station to another at FTL speeds. _Mighty Good Road_ by Melissa Scott
involves the trains passing through space warps. Timothy Zahn wrote a
similar series, but I don't recall the name of the series or whether he
gave any sort of hand-waving explanation of how it worked. I do remember
that Zahn's railroad was run by an alien species known as the Spiders.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
James Silverton
May 23, 2013, 6:26:29 PM5/23/13
to
On 5/23/2013 5:30 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 21:04:41 +0000, Joseph Nebus wrote:
>
>> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening to _Tom
>> Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over around
>> http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>>
>>
>> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein guy
>> and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
>> a broad view of the subject.)
>>
>> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
>> train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
>
> There is a related sub-genre of interstellar trains that move from one
> station to another at FTL speeds. _Mighty Good Road_ by Melissa Scott
> involves the trains passing through space warps. Timothy Zahn wrote a
> similar series, but I don't recall the name of the series or whether he
> gave any sort of hand-waving explanation of how it worked. I do remember
> that Zahn's railroad was run by an alien species known as the Spiders.
>
Is there a currently known material with the necessary tensile strength
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 21:04:41 +0000, Joseph Nebus wrote:
>
>> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening to _Tom
>> Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over around
>> http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>>
>>
>> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein guy
>> and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
>> a broad view of the subject.)
>>
>> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
>> train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
>
> There is a related sub-genre of interstellar trains that move from one
> station to another at FTL speeds. _Mighty Good Road_ by Melissa Scott
> involves the trains passing through space warps. Timothy Zahn wrote a
> similar series, but I don't recall the name of the series or whether he
> gave any sort of hand-waving explanation of how it worked. I do remember
> that Zahn's railroad was run by an alien species known as the Spiders.
>
for the cables of a space elevator?
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Dorothy J Heydt
May 23, 2013, 7:44:14 PM5/23/13
to
In article <b07g3r...@mid.individual.net>,
The first space station has just been put into orbit, and the
protagonist is some kind of government official sent up to it.
The crew captain explains how this is something that mustn't be
revealed to the public, and leads the official to the viewport.
Stripped of the disguising atmosphere, they can see that the
stars are each mounted on faint lines, like tracks. "Only the
Earth is real," the captain says, "the Earth, and maybe the Moon.
Everything else is fake. We've been being tested, and now that
we've passed the test, or maybe broken it...."
And the protagonist thinks of mankind as a colony of white mice
that has finally learned to run this maze, and is now waiting for
the maze to be removed and something else set up in its place.
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?55979
John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 21:04:41 +0000, Joseph Nebus wrote:
>
>> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening to _Tom
>> Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over around
>> http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>>
>>
>> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein guy
>> and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
>> a broad view of the subject.)
>>
>> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
>> train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
>
>There is a related sub-genre of interstellar trains that move from one
>station to another at FTL speeds. _Mighty Good Road_ by Melissa Scott
>involves the trains passing through space warps. Timothy Zahn wrote a
>similar series, but I don't recall the name of the series or whether he
>gave any sort of hand-waving explanation of how it worked. I do remember
>that Zahn's railroad was run by an alien species known as the Spiders.
There's always Sam Merwin's "Star Tracks," 1953.
>On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 21:04:41 +0000, Joseph Nebus wrote:
>
>> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening to _Tom
>> Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over around
>> http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>>
>>
>> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein guy
>> and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
>> a broad view of the subject.)
>>
>> Space elevators seem like they ought to be well-suited for
>> train/monorail-style stories, but are they?
>
>There is a related sub-genre of interstellar trains that move from one
>station to another at FTL speeds. _Mighty Good Road_ by Melissa Scott
>involves the trains passing through space warps. Timothy Zahn wrote a
>similar series, but I don't recall the name of the series or whether he
>gave any sort of hand-waving explanation of how it worked. I do remember
>that Zahn's railroad was run by an alien species known as the Spiders.
The first space station has just been put into orbit, and the
protagonist is some kind of government official sent up to it.
The crew captain explains how this is something that mustn't be
revealed to the public, and leads the official to the viewport.
Stripped of the disguising atmosphere, they can see that the
stars are each mounted on faint lines, like tracks. "Only the
Earth is real," the captain says, "the Earth, and maybe the Moon.
Everything else is fake. We've been being tested, and now that
we've passed the test, or maybe broken it...."
And the protagonist thinks of mankind as a colony of white mice
that has finally learned to run this maze, and is now waiting for
the maze to be removed and something else set up in its place.
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?55979
Brian M. Scott
May 23, 2013, 8:30:57 PM5/23/13
to
On 23 May 2013 21:30:35 GMT, "John F. Eldredge"
<jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote in
<news:b07g3r...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> Timothy Zahn wrote a similar series, but I don't recall
> the name of the series
The Quadrail (or Frank Compton) series; the fifth and last
volume came out last year.
> or whether he gave any sort of hand-waving explanation of
> how it worked.
Yes, though with little detail; see
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrail>.
[...]
Brian
<jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote in
<news:b07g3r...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> Timothy Zahn wrote a similar series, but I don't recall
> the name of the series
volume came out last year.
> or whether he gave any sort of hand-waving explanation of
> how it worked.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrail>.
[...]
Brian
lal_truckee
May 23, 2013, 11:23:32 PM5/23/13
to
On 3/20/13 8:38 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> So they fixed an earbud in his ear,
I wonder how those "earbud"s compare to the expectation us modern folk
have of earbuds. We're talking about 60 years ago and miniaturization
has gained some ground.
Also I love to see Willy Ley mentioned; he seems all but forgotten
today. Yet IMO his best stuff is the epitome of hard science fiction
without the cardboard characterizations and dubious plots of 1950 SF.
IMO he belongs on the Grandmaster list, in the early rounds.
By lucky happenstances I've formed a nice little collection of Ley's
large format 1950ish books, including some first editions,
often illustrated by Chesley Bonestell.
> So they fixed an earbud in his ear,
I wonder how those "earbud"s compare to the expectation us modern folk
have of earbuds. We're talking about 60 years ago and miniaturization
has gained some ground.
Also I love to see Willy Ley mentioned; he seems all but forgotten
today. Yet IMO his best stuff is the epitome of hard science fiction
without the cardboard characterizations and dubious plots of 1950 SF.
IMO he belongs on the Grandmaster list, in the early rounds.
By lucky happenstances I've formed a nice little collection of Ley's
large format 1950ish books, including some first editions,
often illustrated by Chesley Bonestell.
J. Clarke
May 24, 2013, 7:34:24 AM5/24/13
to
In article <knm4og$kfq$1...@dont-email.me>, not.jim....@verizon.net
says...
Maybe. Carbon nanotubes and graphene ribbons are real materials but
their structural properties and utility are still being evaluated. In
theory they could be strong enough, in practice the numbers aren't in
yet. We also don't have enough experience with them to know whether
they have other properties that would make them unsuitable for such use.
says...
their structural properties and utility are still being evaluated. In
theory they could be strong enough, in practice the numbers aren't in
yet. We also don't have enough experience with them to know whether
they have other properties that would make them unsuitable for such use.
J. Clarke
May 24, 2013, 7:34:25 AM5/24/13
to
In article <Mn9z9...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
Interesting idea, but one wonders at the kind of physics that could fake
parallax but required visible tracks.
parallax but required visible tracks.
Robert Carnegie
May 24, 2013, 9:56:41 AM5/24/13
to
On Friday, 24 May 2013 12:34:25 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <Mn9z9...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
> In article <Mn9z9...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
> > There's always Sam Merwin's "Star Tracks," 1953.
Where Gene Roddenberry got the idea for /his/ title?? :-)
> > The first space station has just been put into orbit, and the
> > protagonist is some kind of government official sent up to it.
> > The crew captain explains how this is something that mustn't be
> > revealed to the public, and leads the official to the viewport.
> >
> > Stripped of the disguising atmosphere, they can see that the
> > stars are each mounted on faint lines, like tracks. "Only the
> > Earth is real," the captain says, "the Earth, and maybe the Moon.
> > Everything else is fake. We've been being tested, and now that
> > we've passed the test, or maybe broken it...."
>
> Interesting idea, but one wonders at the kind of physics
> that could fake parallax but required visible tracks.
If the Earth turns, they don't need to move the "real" stars
> that could fake parallax but required visible tracks.
at all - well, just /enough/ for parallax - only the planets.
Or, there's a lot that you can do with holograms - real ones -
did 1953 know about those?
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holography#Overview_and_history>
says: patented in 1947, but needed lasers for the optical
version, so, 1960 for that. Hmm.
Foucault's pendulum demonstrates that the Earth /does/ turn -
unless again physics is cheating - and... well, there's kind of
a genre of stories where people find out that they're living on
a replacement or simulation of Earth instead of the real one.
Which is /not/ the same as whether it's (supposedly) the world
that /we/ live in. Heh. And then of course there's
_The Matrix_...
And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
pendulum? You need a lot of room in a quiet building.
And, if you say you have, how do we know you aren't just
part of the conspiracy, and perpetuating the deception?
David DeLaney
May 24, 2013, 11:36:08 AM5/24/13
to
On 2013-05-23, John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
> There is a related sub-genre of interstellar trains that move from one
> station to another at FTL speeds. _Mighty Good Road_ by Melissa Scott
> involves the trains passing through space warps. Timothy Zahn wrote a
> similar series, but I don't recall the name of the series or whether he
> gave any sort of hand-waving explanation of how it worked. I do remember
> that Zahn's railroad was run by an alien species known as the Spiders.
I'm not sure it has a _name_, but it's finished now, and the books in it are
> There is a related sub-genre of interstellar trains that move from one
> station to another at FTL speeds. _Mighty Good Road_ by Melissa Scott
> involves the trains passing through space warps. Timothy Zahn wrote a
> similar series, but I don't recall the name of the series or whether he
> gave any sort of hand-waving explanation of how it worked. I do remember
> that Zahn's railroad was run by an alien species known as the Spiders.
Night Train to Rigel, The Third Lynx, Odd Girl Out, The Domino Pattern, and
Judgment at Proteus. The trains move along tubes that contain a certain kind
of spatial "flaw", something like a cosmic string.
Dave, also see The Celestial Steam Locomotive by Michael Greatrex Coney
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
Dorothy J Heydt
May 24, 2013, 11:37:28 AM5/24/13
to
In article <804695b7-b953-460e...@googlegroups.com>,
I've seen one at the California Academy of Sciences; does that
count?
count?
Wayne Throop
May 24, 2013, 12:11:41 PM5/24/13
to
:: And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's pendulum?
: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: I've seen one at the California Academy of Sciences; does that count?
For me, Smithsonian in DC. Carnegie Mumble in Pittsburgh.
Somewhere I Don't Remember The Name Of At All in NYC.
However, I expect that by "done" is meant watching the pendulum for the
whole 24 hours (or at least, the beginning and end, to get the timing),
and doing some calculations to get the spin rate and the latitude
of the spot. Along with setting it swinging, and verifying there's no
cheating going on. In which case, all the above don't count at all.
"All these things will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
--- Roy Batty
: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: I've seen one at the California Academy of Sciences; does that count?
For me, Smithsonian in DC. Carnegie Mumble in Pittsburgh.
Somewhere I Don't Remember The Name Of At All in NYC.
However, I expect that by "done" is meant watching the pendulum for the
whole 24 hours (or at least, the beginning and end, to get the timing),
and doing some calculations to get the spin rate and the latitude
of the spot. Along with setting it swinging, and verifying there's no
cheating going on. In which case, all the above don't count at all.
"All these things will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
--- Roy Batty
ppint. at pplay
May 24, 2013, 1:32:37 PM5/24/13
to
- hi; in article,
<804695b7-b953-460e...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" demanded:
suspended to one side of the main entrance to the
science museum. you might, if you so desired, stop
and watch it precess, or appear to precess, or fail
to (!) for as long as you wished, during the science
museum's opening hours and subject to your parent's
(or other companion[s','s]) ability to tolerate this.
- it's certainly the longest pendulum i have ever
watched, being some three or four, *monumental*-
sized storeys high (or long), and it fascinated me
with how slowly and ponderously it moved, long be-
fore i understood what it was demonstrating.
- at least once, on my visits, it had been removed
for some sort of maintenance, or cleaning, but else-
wise it swung majestically to and fro, so far as i
know, every day of the year. a card and a wooden
dummy clock announced the last time that it had been
re-started along the "zero" datum line in the white
(bone? ivory?) scale along which the pointer on the
bottom of the massive pendulum bob traced out the
alignment of its swing.
- it wasn't the most exciting exhibit in the science
museum for a small kid to watch, but it was impress-
ive, and not a little hypnotic.
- love, a ppint. as nowadays lacks anyone to conspire with
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"the perversity of the universe tends towards a maximum"
- finagle's third law
<804695b7-b953-460e...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" demanded:
>
>And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
>pendulum? You need a lot of room in a quiet building.
>And, if you say you have, how do we know you aren't just
>part of the conspiracy, and perpetuating the deception?
- there is, or used to be, one almost permanently
>And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
>pendulum? You need a lot of room in a quiet building.
>And, if you say you have, how do we know you aren't just
>part of the conspiracy, and perpetuating the deception?
suspended to one side of the main entrance to the
science museum. you might, if you so desired, stop
and watch it precess, or appear to precess, or fail
to (!) for as long as you wished, during the science
museum's opening hours and subject to your parent's
(or other companion[s','s]) ability to tolerate this.
- it's certainly the longest pendulum i have ever
watched, being some three or four, *monumental*-
sized storeys high (or long), and it fascinated me
with how slowly and ponderously it moved, long be-
fore i understood what it was demonstrating.
- at least once, on my visits, it had been removed
for some sort of maintenance, or cleaning, but else-
wise it swung majestically to and fro, so far as i
know, every day of the year. a card and a wooden
dummy clock announced the last time that it had been
re-started along the "zero" datum line in the white
(bone? ivory?) scale along which the pointer on the
bottom of the massive pendulum bob traced out the
alignment of its swing.
- it wasn't the most exciting exhibit in the science
museum for a small kid to watch, but it was impress-
ive, and not a little hypnotic.
- love, a ppint. as nowadays lacks anyone to conspire with
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"the perversity of the universe tends towards a maximum"
- finagle's third law
Lawrence Watt-Evans
May 24, 2013, 2:34:53 PM5/24/13
to
On 2013-05-24 13:32:37 -0400, ppint. at pplay said:
> - hi; in article,
> <804695b7-b953-460e...@googlegroups.com>,
> rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" demanded:
>>
>> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
>> pendulum? You need a lot of room in a quiet building.
>> And, if you say you have, how do we know you aren't just
>> part of the conspiracy, and perpetuating the deception?
>
> - there is, or used to be, one almost permanently
> suspended to one side of the main entrance to the
> science museum.
Which science museum?
> - hi; in article,
> <804695b7-b953-460e...@googlegroups.com>,
> rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" demanded:
>>
>> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
>> pendulum? You need a lot of room in a quiet building.
>> And, if you say you have, how do we know you aren't just
>> part of the conspiracy, and perpetuating the deception?
>
> - there is, or used to be, one almost permanently
> suspended to one side of the main entrance to the
> science museum.
There's one at the Boston Museum of Science, but I don't remember one
at Baltimore's science museum.
--
Now available on Amazon or B&N: One-Eyed Jack.
Greg Kraft could see ghosts. That didn't mean he could stop them...
Lawrence Watt-Evans
May 24, 2013, 2:36:47 PM5/24/13
to
On 2013-05-24 12:11:41 -0400, Wayne Throop said:
> :: And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's pendulum?
>
> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> : I've seen one at the California Academy of Sciences; does that count?
>
> For me, Smithsonian in DC. Carnegie Mumble in Pittsburgh.
> Somewhere I Don't Remember The Name Of At All in NYC.
Carnegie-Mellon, did you mean? Or the Carnegie Museum? (I don't
> :: And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's pendulum?
>
> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> : I've seen one at the California Academy of Sciences; does that count?
>
> For me, Smithsonian in DC. Carnegie Mumble in Pittsburgh.
> Somewhere I Don't Remember The Name Of At All in NYC.
remember seeing one either place, but it's been thirty-some years since
I visited the latter.)
The one in New York -- Hayden Planetarium, maybe? (I'm just guessing.)
Brian M. Scott
May 24, 2013, 2:59:48 PM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 06:56:41 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
<news:804695b7-b953-460e...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
> pendulum? [...]
I've seen one, though I don't remember where; it might have
been in a science building at one of the colleges where my
father taught.
Brian
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
<news:804695b7-b953-460e...@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:
[...]
> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
I've seen one, though I don't remember where; it might have
been in a science building at one of the colleges where my
father taught.
Brian
Wayne Throop
May 24, 2013, 3:01:43 PM5/24/13
to
:: For me, Smithsonian in DC. Carnegie Mumble in Pittsburgh.
: Carnegie-Mellon, did you mean? Or the Carnegie Museum? (I don't
and comprehensive, bit... The one in Pittsburgh is probably the Buhl
Planetarium. Buhl, Carnegie, whatever.
The one in NYC... I may hve conflated with the one in DC.
But it would be possible I saw the one in da Bronx, though I don't
remember the specific visit/occasion.
In any event, I'm pretty sure I saw one on a school trip to Pittsburgh
in my yoot, which matches up with Buhl Planetarium, and of course the
one in the Smithsonian I've seen multiple times. Hm. It's listed as
gone as of 1998; another one in the history museum gone as of 2008.
Is there still a foucault pendulum in the Smithsonian
on display to the public at all now?
:: Somewhere I Don't Remember The Name Of At All in NYC.
: Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net>
: Carnegie-Mellon, did you mean? Or the Carnegie Museum? (I don't
: remember seeing one either place, but it's been thirty-some years
: since I visited the latter.)
:
: The one in New York -- Hayden Planetarium, maybe? (I'm just
: guessing.)
Hm. List of foucault pendulums from wikipedia. It may not be complete
: since I visited the latter.)
:
: The one in New York -- Hayden Planetarium, maybe? (I'm just
: guessing.)
and comprehensive, bit... The one in Pittsburgh is probably the Buhl
Planetarium. Buhl, Carnegie, whatever.
The one in NYC... I may hve conflated with the one in DC.
But it would be possible I saw the one in da Bronx, though I don't
remember the specific visit/occasion.
In any event, I'm pretty sure I saw one on a school trip to Pittsburgh
in my yoot, which matches up with Buhl Planetarium, and of course the
one in the Smithsonian I've seen multiple times. Hm. It's listed as
gone as of 1998; another one in the history museum gone as of 2008.
Is there still a foucault pendulum in the Smithsonian
on display to the public at all now?
James Silverton
May 24, 2013, 3:56:51 PM5/24/13
to
for the Smithsonian management to move away from science and thus not to
replace the pendulum at the Science and Technology museum. The Fort
McHenry flag is doubtless inspirational but it escapes me what is so
scientific about it that it should displace the pendulum.
Anthony Nance
May 24, 2013, 4:41:06 PM5/24/13
to
Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 06:56:41 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
> <news:804695b7-b953-460e...@googlegroups.com>
> in rec.arts.sf.written:
>
> [...]
>
>> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
>> pendulum? [...]
There's a very popular one at COSI (the science museum in Columbus).
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 06:56:41 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
> <news:804695b7-b953-460e...@googlegroups.com>
> in rec.arts.sf.written:
>
> [...]
>
>> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
>> pendulum? [...]
> I've seen one, though I don't remember where; it might have
> been in a science building at one of the colleges where my
> father taught.
one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn Tower on the
Cleveland St campus, and another at the Cleveland Museum of
Natural History.
Tony
Lawrence Watt-Evans
May 24, 2013, 4:50:19 PM5/24/13
to
On 2013-05-24 15:01:43 -0400, Wayne Throop said:
> Is there still a foucault pendulum in the Smithsonian
> on display to the public at all now?
Alas, I don't think there is.
> Is there still a foucault pendulum in the Smithsonian
> on display to the public at all now?
Brian M. Scott
May 24, 2013, 5:10:19 PM5/24/13
to
On Fri, 24 May 2013 20:41:06 +0000 (UTC), Anthony Nance
<na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote in
<news:knoj91$k0b$1...@dont-email.me> in rec.arts.sf.written:
I don't think that I've ever seen the one in Fenn Tower, but
I probably have seen the one at the Museum of Natural
History. I could have sworn that I'd seen one before I ever
came to Cleveland, but nothing on that list rings a bell.
Brian
<na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote in
<news:knoj91$k0b$1...@dont-email.me> in rec.arts.sf.written:
I probably have seen the one at the Museum of Natural
History. I could have sworn that I'd seen one before I ever
came to Cleveland, but nothing on that list rings a bell.
Brian
Robert Carnegie
May 24, 2013, 5:33:45 PM5/24/13
to
On Friday, 24 May 2013 21:41:06 UTC+1, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> > On Fri, 24 May 2013 06:56:41 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> > <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
> > <news:804695b7-b953-460e...@googlegroups.com>
> > in rec.arts.sf.written:
> Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> > On Fri, 24 May 2013 06:56:41 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> > <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
> > <news:804695b7-b953-460e...@googlegroups.com>
> > in rec.arts.sf.written:
> >> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
> >> pendulum? [...]
>
> There's a very popular one at COSI (the science museum in Columbus).
>
> > I've seen one, though I don't remember where; it might have
> > been in a science building at one of the colleges where my
> > father taught.
>
> According to Wikipedia's "List of Foucault pendulums", there's
> one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn Tower on the
> Cleveland St campus, and another at the Cleveland Museum of
> Natural History.
My god! It /is/ a conspiracy (that you're all in)!
> >> pendulum? [...]
>
> There's a very popular one at COSI (the science museum in Columbus).
>
> > I've seen one, though I don't remember where; it might have
> > been in a science building at one of the colleges where my
> > father taught.
>
> According to Wikipedia's "List of Foucault pendulums", there's
> one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn Tower on the
> Cleveland St campus, and another at the Cleveland Museum of
> Natural History.
And the earth has stopped!
ppint. at pplay
May 24, 2013, 7:43:09 PM5/24/13
to
- hi; in article,
<8ed1f71a-f06e-45ea...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" ejaculated:
>>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
>And the earth has stopped!
- "and they're coming to take [you] away ha-haa...!"
- love, ppint.
Embrace your inner Ping Pong ball."
- marian rosenberg (later brucianna di rosenkavaliera)
5/1/98 (1/5/98 for merkins)
<8ed1f71a-f06e-45ea...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" ejaculated:
>>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
>>>>And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's pendulum?
>>>>[...]
>>There's a very popular one at COSI (the science museum in Columbus).
>>>I've seen one, though I don't remember where; it might have been in
>>>a science building at one of the colleges where my father taught.
>>According to Wikipedia's "List of Foucault pendulums", there's
>>one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn Tower on the
>>Cleveland St campus, and another at the Cleveland Museum of
>>Natural History.
>
>My god! It /is/ a conspiracy (that you're all in)!
- *yes*; shhhhhh;
>>>>[...]
>>There's a very popular one at COSI (the science museum in Columbus).
>>>I've seen one, though I don't remember where; it might have been in
>>>a science building at one of the colleges where my father taught.
>>According to Wikipedia's "List of Foucault pendulums", there's
>>one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn Tower on the
>>Cleveland St campus, and another at the Cleveland Museum of
>>Natural History.
>
>My god! It /is/ a conspiracy (that you're all in)!
>And the earth has stopped!
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"Bounciness is fun!!!
--
Embrace your inner Ping Pong ball."
- marian rosenberg (later brucianna di rosenkavaliera)
5/1/98 (1/5/98 for merkins)
ppint. at pplay
May 24, 2013, 7:51:38 PM5/24/13
to
- hi; in article, <19fxyoo1rrxf5.1...@40tude.net>,
b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" worrited:
> Anthony Nance<na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote
or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
cuckoo clock.
- love, a ppint. happy to reassure you that time was...
- the real dick eney on rec.arts.sf.fandom, 10/5/2005 (5/10/2005 for merkins)
b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" worrited:
> Anthony Nance<na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote
>> Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
>>>>And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's pendulum?
>>There's a very popular one at COSI (the science museum in Columbus).
>>>I've seen one, though I don't remember where; it might have been in
>>>a science building at one of the colleges where my father taught.
>>According to Wikipedia's "List of Foucault pendulums", there's
>>one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn Tower on the
>>Cleveland St campus, and another at the Cleveland Museum of
>>Natural History.
>
>I don't think that I've ever seen the one in Fenn Tower, but
>I probably have seen the one at the Museum of Natural
>History. I could have sworn that I'd seen one before I ever
>came to Cleveland, but nothing on that list rings a bell.
- instead of to an horologue with a carillion or a bell,
>>>I've seen one, though I don't remember where; it might have been in
>>>a science building at one of the colleges where my father taught.
>>According to Wikipedia's "List of Foucault pendulums", there's
>>one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn Tower on the
>>Cleveland St campus, and another at the Cleveland Museum of
>>Natural History.
>
>I don't think that I've ever seen the one in Fenn Tower, but
>I probably have seen the one at the Museum of Natural
>History. I could have sworn that I'd seen one before I ever
>came to Cleveland, but nothing on that list rings a bell.
or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
cuckoo clock.
- love, a ppint. happy to reassure you that time was...
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"Earth occupies about one-half a degree in two dimensions."
--
- the real dick eney on rec.arts.sf.fandom, 10/5/2005 (5/10/2005 for merkins)
Brian M. Scott
May 24, 2013, 9:47:33 PM5/24/13
to
On Sat, 25 May 2013 00:51:38 +0100 bst, ""ppint. at pplay""
<v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote in
<news:20130524.235...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> - hi; in article, <19fxyoo1rrxf5.1...@40tude.net>,
> b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" worrited:
>> Anthony Nance<na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote
>>> Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>>>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
>>>>> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a
>>>>> Foucault's pendulum?
>>> There's a very popular one at COSI (the science museum
>>> in Columbus).
>>>> I've seen one, though I don't remember where; it might
>>>> have been in a science building at one of the colleges
>>>> where my father taught.
>>> According to Wikipedia's "List of Foucault pendulums",
>>> there's one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn
>>> Tower on the Cleveland St campus, and another at the
>>> Cleveland Museum of Natural History.
>> I don't think that I've ever seen the one in Fenn Tower,
... despite having taught a few classes in that building. I
*do* remember the classroom that had been an indoor swimming
pool in the days when Fenn Tower was a fancy businessmen's
club.
>> but I probably have seen the one at the Museum of
>> Natural History. I could have sworn that I'd seen one
>> before I ever came to Cleveland, but nothing on that
>> list rings a bell.
> - instead of to an horologue with a carillion or a bell,
> or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
> in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
> cuckoo clock.
Oh, what a *lovely* idea; someone really must stuff one into
a steampunk novel!
Brian
<v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote in
<news:20130524.235...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> - hi; in article, <19fxyoo1rrxf5.1...@40tude.net>,
> b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" worrited:
>> Anthony Nance<na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote
>>> Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>>>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
>>>>> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a
>>>>> Foucault's pendulum?
>>> There's a very popular one at COSI (the science museum
>>> in Columbus).
>>>> I've seen one, though I don't remember where; it might
>>>> have been in a science building at one of the colleges
>>>> where my father taught.
>>> According to Wikipedia's "List of Foucault pendulums",
>>> there's one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn
>>> Tower on the Cleveland St campus, and another at the
>>> Cleveland Museum of Natural History.
>> I don't think that I've ever seen the one in Fenn Tower,
*do* remember the classroom that had been an indoor swimming
pool in the days when Fenn Tower was a fancy businessmen's
club.
>> but I probably have seen the one at the Museum of
>> Natural History. I could have sworn that I'd seen one
>> before I ever came to Cleveland, but nothing on that
>> list rings a bell.
> - instead of to an horologue with a carillion or a bell,
> or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
> in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
> cuckoo clock.
a steampunk novel!
Brian
Robert Carnegie
May 24, 2013, 10:34:20 PM5/24/13
to
On Saturday, 25 May 2013 00:51:38 UTC+1, "ppint. at pplay" wrote:
> - hi; in article, <19fxyoo1rrxf5.1...@40tude.net>,
>
> b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" worrited:
> >[Foucault's pendulum]
> - hi; in article, <19fxyoo1rrxf5.1...@40tude.net>,
>
> b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" worrited:
> >I don't think that I've ever seen the one in Fenn Tower, but
> >I probably have seen the one at the Museum of Natural
> >History. I could have sworn that I'd seen one before I ever
> >came to Cleveland, but nothing on that list rings a bell.
>
> - instead of to an horologue with a carillion or a bell,
> or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
> in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
> cuckoo clock.
From whose gilded window emerges a huge bellowing oriole...
> >I probably have seen the one at the Museum of Natural
> >History. I could have sworn that I'd seen one before I ever
> >came to Cleveland, but nothing on that list rings a bell.
>
> - instead of to an horologue with a carillion or a bell,
> or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
> in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
> cuckoo clock.
I'm trying to remember what Castle Heterodyne said
about its distinctive features, both in "canonical"
_Girl Genius_ and, I think, in some of the sketch art
shown online. There was something about bird baths
with little mechanical scrubbing brushes...
ppint. at pplay
May 25, 2013, 4:20:21 AM5/25/13
to
- hi; in article, <1iqv66qtalob6$.1p9a8srxa79k6$.d...@40tude.net>,
b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" kindly waxed enthusious:
>>> but I probably have seen the one at the Museum of
>>> Natural History. I could have sworn that I'd seen one
>>> before I ever came to Cleveland, but nothing on that
>>> list rings a bell.
>> - instead of to an horologue with a carillion or a bell,
>> or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
>> in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
>> cuckoo clock.
>
>Oh, what a *lovely* idea; someone really must stuff one into
>a steampunk novel!
- :-))
- so long as they actually make use of the image,
developing both it and the idea - not least, pro-
viding a plausible (or utterly implausible, but
theoretically possible) reason for building the
mechanical monstrosity, they are welcome.
- but they should note that the pendulum would
not actually attach to the bellows, but to the
pivoted rocker controlling the punctuated speed
of rotation of the second cog in the gear train;
but it does not drive the clock, as removing any
energy from a pendulum reduces the amplitude of
its swing, eventually dampening it down to a mere
suspended mass, a plumb line depending from a now-
mute and motionless mechanical monsterpiece.
- sfnal ideas are two-a-penny; what counts is what
a writer does with them.
- love, ppint.
while the wheel of time
slowly grinds my life away; who am i?"
- country joe macdonald, then of country joe and the fish
b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" kindly waxed enthusious:
> ppint. at pplay"" <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
>> b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" worrited:
>>> Anthony Nance<na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote
>>>> Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>>>>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
>>>>>> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a
>>>>>> Foucault's pendulum?
>>> Anthony Nance<na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote
>>>> Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>>>>> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
>>>>>> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a
>>>>>> Foucault's pendulum?
>>>> According to Wikipedia's "List of Foucault pendulums",
>>>> there's one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn
>>>> Tower on the Cleveland St campus
>>>> there's one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn
>>>> Tower on the Cleveland St campus
>>> I don't think that I've ever seen the one in Fenn Tower,
>
>... despite having taught a few classes in that building. I
>*do* remember the classroom that had been an indoor swimming
>pool in the days when Fenn Tower was a fancy businessmen's club.
- and were students there habitually thrown in the deep end?
>
>... despite having taught a few classes in that building. I
>*do* remember the classroom that had been an indoor swimming
>pool in the days when Fenn Tower was a fancy businessmen's club.
>>> but I probably have seen the one at the Museum of
>>> Natural History. I could have sworn that I'd seen one
>>> before I ever came to Cleveland, but nothing on that
>>> list rings a bell.
>> - instead of to an horologue with a carillion or a bell,
>> or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
>> in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
>> cuckoo clock.
>
>Oh, what a *lovely* idea; someone really must stuff one into
>a steampunk novel!
- so long as they actually make use of the image,
developing both it and the idea - not least, pro-
viding a plausible (or utterly implausible, but
theoretically possible) reason for building the
mechanical monstrosity, they are welcome.
- but they should note that the pendulum would
not actually attach to the bellows, but to the
pivoted rocker controlling the punctuated speed
of rotation of the second cog in the gear train;
but it does not drive the clock, as removing any
energy from a pendulum reduces the amplitude of
its swing, eventually dampening it down to a mere
suspended mass, a plumb line depending from a now-
mute and motionless mechanical monsterpiece.
- sfnal ideas are two-a-penny; what counts is what
a writer does with them.
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"who am i, to stand in wonder and wait,
--
while the wheel of time
slowly grinds my life away; who am i?"
- country joe macdonald, then of country joe and the fish
ppint. at pplay
May 25, 2013, 4:31:12 AM5/25/13
to
- hi; in article,
<1e666689-bfa7-43e6...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" wondered:
let alone heard one call, despite it having been a record
label (and as for bluebirds being over the white cliffs of
dover... - <fx: metaphorical "ptui!">)
>I'm trying to remember what Castle Heterodyne said >about its distinct-
genius (or much else on ongoing online sites): time
online costs per second, when one is on dial-up, at
the end of a long line of wet - or sometimes drying -
string. and time waiting "sure goes slow..."
>There was something about bird baths with little mechanical scrubbing
>brushes...
- charming. did it also make use of that memorable
school (& gaol?), red or green, grit or sand-filled
soap? - "an institution's got to have traditions!"
- love, ppint.
- "quadibloc" (j savard @ecn.dot.ab.dot.ca) on rasfwr
(09:08:03 -0700) 16:08:03 gmt 14/8/10 (8/14/10 for merkins)
<1e666689-bfa7-43e6...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" wondered:
> ppint. at pplay" wrote:
>> b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" worrited:
>>>[Foucault's pendulum]
>>>I don't think that I've ever seen the one in Fenn Tower, but
>>>I probably have seen the one at the Museum of Natural History.
>>>I could have sworn that I'd seen one before I ever came to
>>>Cleveland, but nothing on that list rings a bell.
>> - instead of to an horologue with a carillion or a bell,
>> or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
>> in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
>> cuckoo clock.
>
>From whose gilded window emerges a huge bellowing oriole...
-_do_ orioles bellow? i don't believe i've ever seen one,
>> b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" worrited:
>>>[Foucault's pendulum]
>>>I don't think that I've ever seen the one in Fenn Tower, but
>>>I probably have seen the one at the Museum of Natural History.
>>>I could have sworn that I'd seen one before I ever came to
>>>Cleveland, but nothing on that list rings a bell.
>> - instead of to an horologue with a carillion or a bell,
>> or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
>> in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
>> cuckoo clock.
>
>From whose gilded window emerges a huge bellowing oriole...
let alone heard one call, despite it having been a record
label (and as for bluebirds being over the white cliffs of
dover... - <fx: metaphorical "ptui!">)
>I'm trying to remember what Castle Heterodyne said >about its distinct-
>ive features, both in "canonical">_Girl Genius_ and, I think, in some
>of the sketch art >shown online.
- sorry, i can't help; i haven't investigated girl
>of the sketch art >shown online.
genius (or much else on ongoing online sites): time
online costs per second, when one is on dial-up, at
the end of a long line of wet - or sometimes drying -
string. and time waiting "sure goes slow..."
>There was something about bird baths with little mechanical scrubbing
>brushes...
school (& gaol?), red or green, grit or sand-filled
soap? - "an institution's got to have traditions!"
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
Vat girls - the missing piece to the puzzle of Utopia.
--
- "quadibloc" (j savard @ecn.dot.ab.dot.ca) on rasfwr
(09:08:03 -0700) 16:08:03 gmt 14/8/10 (8/14/10 for merkins)
Walter Bushell
May 25, 2013, 10:01:02 AM5/25/13
to
In article <13694...@sheol.org>, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
wrote:
> For me, Smithsonian in DC. Carnegie Mumble in Pittsburgh.
> Somewhere I Don't Remember The Name Of At All in NYC.
United Debating Society? United Nimwits?
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
wrote:
> For me, Smithsonian in DC. Carnegie Mumble in Pittsburgh.
> Somewhere I Don't Remember The Name Of At All in NYC.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Brian M. Scott
May 25, 2013, 7:31:26 PM5/25/13
to
On Sat, 25 May 2013 09:20:21 +0100 bst, ""ppint. at pplay""
<v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote in
<news:20130525.082...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> - hi; in article, <1iqv66qtalob6$.1p9a8srxa79k6$.d...@40tude.net>,
> b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" kindly waxed enthusious:
>> ppint. at pplay"" <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
>>> b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" worrited:
>>>> Anthony Nance<na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote
[...]
>>>>> According to Wikipedia's "List of Foucault pendulums",
>>>>> there's one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn
>>>>> Tower on the Cleveland St campus
>>>> I don't think that I've ever seen the one in Fenn Tower,
>> ... despite having taught a few classes in that building.
>> I *do* remember the classroom that had been an indoor
>> swimming pool in the days when Fenn Tower was a fancy
>> businessmen's club.
> - and were students there habitually thrown in the deep end?
<dry>
There might have been some difference of opinion on that
score.
</dry>
[...]
Brian
<v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote in
<news:20130525.082...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> - hi; in article, <1iqv66qtalob6$.1p9a8srxa79k6$.d...@40tude.net>,
> b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" kindly waxed enthusious:
>> ppint. at pplay"" <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote
>>> b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" worrited:
>>>> Anthony Nance<na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote
>>>>> According to Wikipedia's "List of Foucault pendulums",
>>>>> there's one (listed as "currently inoperable") in Fenn
>>>>> Tower on the Cleveland St campus
>>>> I don't think that I've ever seen the one in Fenn Tower,
>> ... despite having taught a few classes in that building.
>> I *do* remember the classroom that had been an indoor
>> swimming pool in the days when Fenn Tower was a fancy
>> businessmen's club.
> - and were students there habitually thrown in the deep end?
There might have been some difference of opinion on that
score.
</dry>
[...]
Brian
David DeLaney
May 25, 2013, 9:02:14 PM5/25/13
to
On 2013-05-25, "ppint. at pplay" <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
\> rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" wondered:
Dave, square-cubist law
\> rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" wondered:
>> ppint. at pplay" wrote:
>>> - instead of to an horologue with a carillion or a bell,
>>> or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
>>> in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
>>> cuckoo clock.
>>
>>From whose gilded window emerges a huge bellowing oriole...
>
> -_do_ orioles bellow? i don't believe i've ever seen one,
> let alone heard one call, despite it having been a record
> label (and as for bluebirds being over the white cliffs of
> dover... - <fx: metaphorical "ptui!">)
Only the huge ones bellow. Scaling, you know.
>>> - instead of to an horologue with a carillion or a bell,
>>> or bells, one of those pendula could have been attached,
>>> in a loft up high above, to the twin bellows of a giant
>>> cuckoo clock.
>>
>>From whose gilded window emerges a huge bellowing oriole...
>
> -_do_ orioles bellow? i don't believe i've ever seen one,
> let alone heard one call, despite it having been a record
> label (and as for bluebirds being over the white cliffs of
> dover... - <fx: metaphorical "ptui!">)
Dave, square-cubist law
Greg Goss
May 27, 2013, 1:02:44 PM5/27/13
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
I don't remember if they had a ring of dominos or a ring of heaped
sand to mark the angular changes scribed by the pendulum, but there
was a marker of some sort, but the marking had only progressed a foot
or so (a degree or two?) around the ring when I saw it.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
>Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
>>pendulum? You need a lot of room in a quiet building.
>>And, if you say you have, how do we know you aren't just
>>part of the conspiracy, and perpetuating the deception?
>
>I've seen one at the California Academy of Sciences; does that
>count?
There was one running at Griffith Observatory when I visited in 1984.
>>And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
>>pendulum? You need a lot of room in a quiet building.
>>And, if you say you have, how do we know you aren't just
>>part of the conspiracy, and perpetuating the deception?
>
>I've seen one at the California Academy of Sciences; does that
>count?
I don't remember if they had a ring of dominos or a ring of heaped
sand to mark the angular changes scribed by the pendulum, but there
was a marker of some sort, but the marking had only progressed a foot
or so (a degree or two?) around the ring when I saw it.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Greg Goss
May 27, 2013, 1:23:02 PM5/27/13
to
v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk ("ppint. at pplay") wrote:
> - it's certainly the longest pendulum i have ever
> watched, being some three or four, *monumental*-
> sized storeys high (or long), and it fascinated me
> with how slowly and ponderously it moved, long be-
> fore i understood what it was demonstrating.
For long pendulums, I sat and watched the non-Foucault pendulum
> - it's certainly the longest pendulum i have ever
> watched, being some three or four, *monumental*-
> sized storeys high (or long), and it fascinated me
> with how slowly and ponderously it moved, long be-
> fore i understood what it was demonstrating.
(Broken Column by Alan Storey) at the Bank of BC building (later
became the Canadan HQ of HSBC) in Vancouver.
It's interesting that on particularly cold days, they have to stop the
pendulum because the frame of the building shrinks and the pendulum in
the heated lobby does not shrink, leading to fears that the pendulum
might hit its magnetic "pump".
http://tinyurl.com/nq8hl7q
http://www.pendulumgallery.bc.ca/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udXt9kJuRZw
I had thought it was magnetically induced, but that might just have
been an assumption by analogy with the desktop activity toys that were
a fad at the time I first saw it in the eighties. Apparently its
motion is pumped by a small bleed-off of the atrium's A/C circulation.
I can't seem to find any reference to its actual height. I guess I
could do the math from the period in the youtube clip, but I won't.
Dorothy J Heydt
May 27, 2013, 2:20:34 PM5/27/13
to
In article <b0hhtk...@mid.individual.net>,
The one at the Academy has a ring of little pegs around its
perimeter. Every fifteen minutes or so the narrow point at the
bottom of the pendulum will knock one of them over. So if you
want to wait and watch, as some of us will do, you can -- if not
see it move -- at least see evidence that it has moved since the
last peg.
perimeter. Every fifteen minutes or so the narrow point at the
bottom of the pendulum will knock one of them over. So if you
want to wait and watch, as some of us will do, you can -- if not
see it move -- at least see evidence that it has moved since the
last peg.
David DeLaney
May 27, 2013, 5:50:56 PM5/27/13
to
David DeLaney
May 27, 2013, 5:57:19 PM5/27/13
to
On 2013-05-27, David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
[nothing]
Sorry, pushed the wrong key after seeing I was trying to follow up to the
wrong post, which my new posting setup makes much more likely than before.
I had nothing to say, pendulum-wise.
Dave
[nothing]
Sorry, pushed the wrong key after seeing I was trying to follow up to the
wrong post, which my new posting setup makes much more likely than before.
I had nothing to say, pendulum-wise.
Dave
Ignatios Souvatzis
May 27, 2013, 2:06:26 PM5/27/13
to
Robert Carnegie wrote:
> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
> pendulum? You need a lot of room in a quiet building.
Yes. Watched it or helped (don't remember) as a school experiment.
> And, actually, has anyone here actually done a Foucault's
> pendulum? You need a lot of room in a quiet building.
When I was a teen-ager. Also we tried to measure gravity (school
wasn't quite enough) but managed speed of light (to a certain accuracy).
-is
--
seal your e-mail: http://www.gnupg.org/
Brian M. Scott
May 27, 2013, 6:34:13 PM5/27/13
to
On Mon, 27 May 2013 16:57:19 -0500, David DeLaney
<davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<news:RrOdnUjVtKMiSz7M...@earthlink.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> On 2013-05-27, David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> [nothing]
> Sorry, pushed the wrong key after seeing I was trying to
> follow up to the wrong post, which my new posting setup
> makes much more likely than before. I had nothing to say,
> pendulum-wise.
So you're leaving us hanging ...
Brian
<davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<news:RrOdnUjVtKMiSz7M...@earthlink.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> On 2013-05-27, David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> [nothing]
> Sorry, pushed the wrong key after seeing I was trying to
> follow up to the wrong post, which my new posting setup
> makes much more likely than before. I had nothing to say,
> pendulum-wise.
Brian
ppint. at pplay
May 27, 2013, 8:53:35 PM5/27/13
to
- hi; in article, <qe9kieoqi8oe$.po8nk5qa...@40tude.net>,
b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" charged:
> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote in
- love, a ppint. recalling wise words about hangine together
- ellen datlow, interviewed by craig charles at intersection, 1995
b.s...@csuohio.edu "Brian M. Scott" charged:
> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>> <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> [nothing]
>> Sorry, pushed the wrong key after seeing I was trying to
>> follow up to the wrong post, which my new posting setup
>> makes much more likely than before. I had nothing to say,
>> pendulum-wise.
>
>So you're leaving us hanging ...
- slightly disturbed, depending...
>> [nothing]
>> Sorry, pushed the wrong key after seeing I was trying to
>> follow up to the wrong post, which my new posting setup
>> makes much more likely than before. I had nothing to say,
>> pendulum-wise.
>
>So you're leaving us hanging ...
- love, a ppint. recalling wise words about hangine together
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"testicles are more alien to women, than tentacles"
--
- ellen datlow, interviewed by craig charles at intersection, 1995
David DeLaney
May 28, 2013, 12:01:30 AM5/28/13
to
On 2013-05-27, Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2013 16:57:19 -0500, David DeLaney
> On Mon, 27 May 2013 16:57:19 -0500, David DeLaney
>> On 2013-05-27, David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> [nothing]
>
>> Sorry, pushed the wrong key after seeing I was trying to
>> follow up to the wrong post, which my new posting setup
>> makes much more likely than before. I had nothing to say,
>> pendulum-wise.
>
> So you're leaving us hanging ...
Give me a little time, I may be back.
>> [nothing]
>
>> Sorry, pushed the wrong key after seeing I was trying to
>> follow up to the wrong post, which my new posting setup
>> makes much more likely than before. I had nothing to say,
>> pendulum-wise.
>
> So you're leaving us hanging ...
Dave, rollin' rollin' rollin', in-clined plane a-rollin'...
JohnFair
Jun 6, 2013, 7:53:09 AM6/6/13
to
On Wednesday, 20 March 2013 21:04:41 UTC, Joseph Nebus wrote:
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>
> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>
> around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
>
>
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
>
> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
>
> a broad view of the subject.)
> --------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
'Great' may be pushing it a lot but I quite liked Ben Aaronowich's _Transit_ (an original 7th Doctor novel) which has the solar system linked together by a transit system similar to the London tube and with an extra-solar extension coming in to play that was going to cause amazing problems.
It's not a monorail and probably not a train in the strictest sense of the word, being based on the Doctor's equivalent of Star Trek's Transporter.
--
John Fairhurst
http://www.johnsbooks.co.uk
> (Inspired by James Nicoll's haunting memory while listening
>
> to _Tom Corbett, Space Cadet_, as reviewed on his Livejournal over
>
> around http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/4235226.html )
>
>
>
>
>
> What are the great treatments of monorails in science fiction?
>
> Taking a broad view of the subject, yes, I've heard of this Heinlein
>
> guy and his 'Roads Must Roll' thing, and John M Ford worked out an
>
> extraordinarily complex 76-lie, 4000-station rail network for _Growing
>
> Up Weightless_ to support the background of a scene where a character
>
> thinks about a train station momentarily. (Not monorails, but as I say,
>
> a broad view of the subject.)
> --------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
'Great' may be pushing it a lot but I quite liked Ben Aaronowich's _Transit_ (an original 7th Doctor novel) which has the solar system linked together by a transit system similar to the London tube and with an extra-solar extension coming in to play that was going to cause amazing problems.
It's not a monorail and probably not a train in the strictest sense of the word, being based on the Doctor's equivalent of Star Trek's Transporter.
--
John Fairhurst
http://www.johnsbooks.co.uk
William December Starr
Jun 12, 2013, 10:54:03 PM6/12/13
to
In article <2e4432f7-05a9-4f29...@googlegroups.com>,
> and with an extra-solar extension coming in to play that was going
> to cause amazing problems.
>
> It's not a monorail and probably not a train in the strictest
> sense of the word, being based on the Doctor's equivalent of Star
> Trek's Transporter.
I don't get this comment. The things that ran through the system,
carrying people and freight, were indeed trains. They floated
rather than rolled, but that's the only difference I can remember.
(By the way, you typoed the author's name: it's Aaronovitch.)
-- wds
JohnFair <jo...@johnsbooks.co.uk> said:
> 'Great' may be pushing it a lot but I quite liked Ben Aaronowich's
> _Transit_ (an original 7th Doctor novel) which has the solar
> system linked together by a transit system similar to the London
> tube
and in fact incorporating part of the London tube, iirc
> 'Great' may be pushing it a lot but I quite liked Ben Aaronowich's
> _Transit_ (an original 7th Doctor novel) which has the solar
> system linked together by a transit system similar to the London
> tube
> and with an extra-solar extension coming in to play that was going
> to cause amazing problems.
>
> It's not a monorail and probably not a train in the strictest
> sense of the word, being based on the Doctor's equivalent of Star
> Trek's Transporter.
carrying people and freight, were indeed trains. They floated
rather than rolled, but that's the only difference I can remember.
(By the way, you typoed the author's name: it's Aaronovitch.)
-- wds
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