Concentrated nostalgia
James Nicoll
it to project gutenberg but what caught my eye was this:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27444/27444.txt
Starman's Quest, an early Robert Silverberg novel.
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Paul Ciszek
In article <he9ff3$dgq$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> I think I started off looking to see what of Simak's had made
>it to project gutenberg but what caught my eye was this:
>
>http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27444/27444.txt
>
> Starman's Quest, an early Robert Silverberg novel.
How could Silverberg be out of copyright?
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Garrett Wollman
Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>In article <he9ff3$dgq$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27444/27444.txt
>>
>> Starman's Quest, an early Robert Silverberg novel.
>
>How could Silverberg be out of copyright?
Same way as "Happy Birthday to You": by being old enough to have
failed to be timely renewed before the Copyright Act of 1976 came into
effect and made renewal unnecessary. The '76 Act did not
retroactively resurrect copyright on works that were then in the
public domain (although a later act did, but only for works of foreign
authors).
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
David Librik
>Same way as "Happy Birthday to You"
"Happy Birthday to You" isn't out of copyright. You must get a license
and pay royalties if you sing it publicly. This is why you tend to hear
other songs used for birthdays in TV shows and movies.
Interesting bit of trivia: Archibald Hill, professor of Linguistics at
the University of Texas, inherited the copyright from his aunts.
Linguists love the song, because "Happy Birthday" paid the expenses of
the Linguistic Society of America for quite some time!
- David Librik
lib...@panix.com
Robert Carnegie
> wol...@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) writes:
> >Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >>How could Silverberg be out of copyright?
>
> >Same way as "Happy Birthday to You"
>
> "Happy Birthday to You" isn't out of copyright. You must get a license
> and pay royalties if you sing it publicly. This is why you tend to hear
> other songs used for birthdays in TV shows and movies.
"For he's a jolly good fellow", for instance, or variations.
Having said that, how much does "Happy Birthday to You" cost? And do
producers ever go, "What the heck, we're paying Bruce Willis $xxxxxxxx
for showing up, we may as well have the song"?
Garrett Wollman
David Librik <lib...@panix.com> wrote:
>"Happy Birthday to You" isn't out of copyright. You must get a license
>and pay royalties if you sing it publicly.
That is a fiction which certain parts of the copyright industry would
like you to believe. In actual fact, the copyright was not renewed
(back in the '50s!) and it passed at that time into the public
domain. No law since then has restored its copyright.
>This is why you tend to hear other songs used for birthdays in TV
>shows and movies.
Generally speaking, the copyright industry doesn't like to get into
legal fights with itself over whether something is in the public
domain; they would generally prefer that there was not such thing.
Furthermore, the people who claim to control the (nonexistent) rights
to the song have carefully set their rents to be significantly less
than it would cost anyone to defend a lawsuit, thereby ensuring
through economic forces that their (invalid) claims are never tested
in court.
See: Brauneis, Robert, Copyright and the World's Most Popular
Song. GWU Legal Studies Research Paper No. 1111624. Available at SSRN:
http://ssrn.com/abstract=1111624
Disclaimer: IANAL,TINLA
Sean O'Hara
declared:
> In article <he9ff3$dgq$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> I think I started off looking to see what of Simak's had made
>> it to project gutenberg but what caught my eye was this:
>>
>> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27444/27444.txt
>>
>> Starman's Quest, an early Robert Silverberg novel.
>
> How could Silverberg be out of copyright?
>
Anything published between 1923 and 1964 is public domain unless the
copyright holder filed a renewal. Most of the big name sci-fi
authors did so -- the major exception is H. Beam Piper whose books
are almost all PD -- but many individual works slipped through the
cracks.
--
Sean O'Hara <http://www.diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com>
New audio book: As Long as You Wish by John O'Keefe
<http://librivox.org/short-science-fiction-collection-010/>
Taemon
> The '76 Act did not
> retroactively resurrect copyright on works that were then in the
> public domain (although a later act did, but only for works of foreign
> authors).
Oh, come on! "Foreign"? On Usenet? Shame on your worldview!
T.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
He's discussing an American act, and "foreign" is a word likely to be
used with respect to anything non-American in that context.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Taemon
> Taemon wrote:
>> Garrett Wollman wrote:
>>> The '76 Act did not
>>> retroactively resurrect copyright on works that were then in the
>>> public domain (although a later act did, but only for works of
>>> foreign authors).
>> Oh, come on! "Foreign"? On Usenet? Shame on your worldview!
> He's discussing an American act, and "foreign" is a word likely to be
> used with respect to anything non-American in that context.
Oh, that changes things a bit. Still, I would have used "non-American". I
mean, I'd never use "foreign" instead of "non-Dutch" ;-)
T.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
In legal terms, "foreign" is the official term, IIRC; as in the oath to
protect the country from "all enemies, foreign and domestic".
Kurt Busiek
If you were referring to a Dutch law that recognized two classes of
things, Dutch and foreign, it'd be appropriate.
I was nominated for Best Foreign Album at the Angouleme Comics Festival
one year; they didn't mess about with "non-French," just French and
"etranger."
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Ahasuerus
> In article <he9ff3$dg...@reader1.panix.com>,
>
> James Nicoll <jdnic...@panix.com> wrote:
> > I think I started off looking to see what of Simak's had made
> >it to project gutenberg but what caught my eye was this:
>
> >http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27444/27444.txt
>
> > Starman's Quest, an early Robert Silverberg novel.
>
> How could Silverberg be out of copyright?
There are probably over a hundred Silverberg stories and novels that
are out of copyright. It seems unlikely that he ever went back and
renewed copyright on _French Sin Port_, _Mistress of Sin_, _Sin à la
Carte_, _Sin Bait_, _Sin Bin_, _Sin Circuit_, _Sin Club_, _Sin
Crazed_, _Sin Cruise_, _Sin Doll_, _Sin Festival_, _Sin Girls_, _Sin
Hellion_, _Sin Kin_, _Sin Made_, _Sin Mates_, _Sin on Wheels_ (as by
"Don Elliott"), _Sin on Wheels_ (a different version, this time as by
"Loren Beauchamp"), _Sin Partners_, _Sin Quest_, _Sin Servant_, _Sin
Service_, _Sin Sick_, _Streets of Sin_ (as by "Mark Ryan"), _Streets
of Sin_ (a different version, this time as by "Don Elliott") and
_Suburban Sin Club_. And that's just his *novels* with the word "Sin"
in the title (not even counting "Sinners", "Sinful" etc) that he
published in the late 1950s/early 1960s. See http://www.majipoor.com/pseudolist.php
for what appears to be a nearly complete list.
Taemon
> On 2009-11-22 07:57:00 -0800, "Taemon" <Tae...@zonnet.nl> said:
>> Oh, that changes things a bit. Still, I would have used
>> "non-American". I mean, I'd never use "foreign" instead of
>> "non-Dutch" ;-)
> I was nominated for Best Foreign Album at the Angouleme Comics
> Festival one year; they didn't mess about with "non-French," just
> French and "etranger."
Yes - but that was in France. Not on Usenet.
T.
Kurt Busiek
It was reported on the Internet -- including on Usenet, I think. Even
in US trade magazines, it was listed as a nomination for "Best Foreign
Album."
The fact that the event was in France was the context, just as US
copyright law was the context of Garrett's comment. But discussion and
reportage of both can happen on Usenet without the terms having to
change, because the context is clear.
On Usenet, when people discuss the Academy Award for Best Foreign
Language Film, do they change its name?
Don Aitken
In UK legal English, the formal term is "alien".
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com"
Wayne Throop
::: "non-American". I mean, I'd never use "foreign" instead of
::: "non-Dutch" ;-)
:: In legal terms, "foreign" is the official term, IIRC; as in the oath
:: to protect the country from "all enemies, foreign and domestic".
: In UK legal English, the formal term is "alien".
This is the sort of place where audio effects would be nice
in usenet posts: <fx theramin="ooooooowEEEEEEaaaaaoooooo">alien</fx>
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Jon Schild
> In article <he9ff3$dgq$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> I think I started off looking to see what of Simak's had made
>> it to project gutenberg but what caught my eye was this:
>>
>> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27444/27444.txt
>>
>> Starman's Quest, an early Robert Silverberg novel.
>
> How could Silverberg be out of copyright?
>
Silverberg was never copyrighted. Of his works which were, some are old
enough to be in public domain if the original copyright has not been
renewed.
cryptoguy
> ::: Oh, that changes things a bit. Still, I would have used
> ::: "non-American". I mean, I'd never use "foreign" instead of
> ::: "non-Dutch" ;-)
>
> :: In legal terms, "foreign" is the official term, IIRC; as in the oath
> :: to protect the country from "all enemies, foreign and domestic".
>
> : In UK legal English, the formal term is "alien".
>
> This is the sort of place where audio effects would be nice
> in usenet posts: <fx theramin="ooooooowEEEEEEaaaaaoooooo">alien</fx>
When I lived in Britain, I was an 'official registered alien', and
carried a card to that effect. The title amused me.
pt
Greg Goss
Then focus on the fact he never specified a particular government for
the reasoning to be an act of. Once you have an "Act", then its logic
can be examined, and certain areas of the world are "foreign" to the
authors of that act.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Gene Wirchenko
<treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>When I lived in Britain, I was an 'official registered alien', and
>carried a card to that effect. The title amused me.
Well, that takes the excitement out of "the aliens among us".
Unless you have superior technology, psionic powers, or X
(whatever that is).
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Taemon
> The fact that the event was in France was the context, just as US
> copyright law was the context of Garrett's comment. But discussion
> and reportage of both can happen on Usenet without the terms having to
> change, because the context is clear.
I slightly disagree. But it's no big deal, so let's leave it at that.
T.
David Johnston
wrote:
To Ponciest Film Of The Year?
John
Robert Carnegie
> In article <hea02s$do...@reader1.panix.com>,
> David Librik <lib...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> >"Happy Birthday to You" isn't out of copyright. You must get a license
> >and pay royalties if you sing it publicly.
>
> That is a fiction which certain parts of the copyright industry would
> like you to believe. In actual fact, the copyright was not renewed
> (back in the '50s!) and it passed at that time into the public
> domain. No law since then has restored its copyright.
>
> >This is why you tend to hear other songs used for birthdays in TV
> >shows and movies.
>
> Generally speaking, the copyright industry doesn't like to get into
> legal fights with itself over whether something is in the public
> domain; they would generally prefer that there was not such thing.
> Furthermore, the people who claim to control the (nonexistent) rights
> to the song have carefully set their rents to be significantly less
> than it would cost anyone to defend a lawsuit, thereby ensuring
> through economic forces that their (invalid) claims are never tested
> in court.
>
> See: Brauneis, Robert, Copyright and the World's Most Popular
> Song. GWU Legal Studies Research Paper No. 1111624. Available at SSRN:http://ssrn.com/abstract=1111624
>
> Disclaimer: IANAL,TINLA
>
> -GAWollman
But what about copyright on it elsewhere in the world?
Garrett Wollman
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>But what about copyright on ["Happy Birthday"] elsewhere in the world?
That depends on a lot of factors which vary from state to state. In
countries where the duration of copyright is 50 years p.m.a. or which
observe the rule of the lesser term, it is in the public domain. If
the term is 75 years p.m.a., I'm not sure because I don't remember the
authors' years of death. If the current (unconscionable[1]) U.S. rule
of 95 years p.m.a. had been in effect when the song was written, we'd
still have another decade or two to go.
-GAWollman
[1] But the current U.S. rule for unpublished works -- 120 years -- is
even more unconscionable.
Kurt Busiek
> In article <ef196b3f-c6d4-4796...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>> But what about copyright on ["Happy Birthday"] elsewhere in the world?
>
> That depends on a lot of factors which vary from state to state. In
> countries where the duration of copyright is 50 years p.m.a. or which
> observe the rule of the lesser term, it is in the public domain. If
> the term is 75 years p.m.a., I'm not sure because I don't remember the
> authors' years of death.
Patty Hill died in 1946. Mildred Hill in 1916.
Robert Carnegie
Now I've seen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries'_copyright_length
Apparently we need to know whether they were on active service with
the French armed forces when they died. That puts an extra thirty
years on the clock.
Mexico and Cote d'Ivoire also give 100 and 99 years after death, but,
after all, it's a song in English, so they probably wouldn't use it
anyway.
William December Starr
Gene Wirchenko <ge...@ocis.net> said:
> cryptoguy <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When I lived in Britain, I was an 'official registered alien',
>> and carried a card to that effect. The title amused me.
>
> Well, that takes the excitement out of "the aliens among us".
"Cool, an alien! Has your race taken over the Earth?"
"No, I just work here."
-- wds