Death Gate Question
Travis Tabbal
> I am wondering how good Into The Laberynth is compared to the other Death
> Gate Novels. I have not been able to afford the Hardcover yet and am
> patiently awaiting the release of the soft-back (when is it due?). also I
> am Interested in any reviews on the book or the series in general. Is
> anyone else as fasinated by these books as I am? Thanks for the feedback.
I found them to be very good books. I liked "Into the Laberynth" and it
was worth $20 IMO! It was on the same level as the rest of the series.
There are some in here who dislike the series because of ZifNab... I
still haven't figgured it out. :) ... each to his own I guess. Good to
see another Death Gate reader in here. I do not know the release date of
the softcover edition of the book. I keep wishing they were longer
though. I think I'm adicited! :) ... between this and The Wheel of Time
I'm impatiantly awaiting a new release from either. :) ... And then I
have the Thomas Covenant series to finnish and Dragonlance to start (both
at the recomendation of friends) ... and no time... owell. I'll get to
it.
Hank Lee
BB> There are some in here who dislike the series because of ZifNab... I
BB> still haven't figgured it out. :) ... each to his own I guess. Good to
So, you haven't figured out who Zifnab really is? :)
BB> have the Thomas Covenant series to finnish and Dragonlance to start (both
Well, if you're gonna to read Dragonlance, read only the Chronicles and
Legends series. The others, IMO, are not as good. You WILL find out who
Zifnab is after you read Dragonlance. It IS that obvious. :)
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* RM 1.3 00299 * Neveraskagnomewhathisnameisoryouwillbeverysorry!
Hank Lee
KK> I am wondering how good Into The Laberynth is compared to the other De
KK> Gate Novels. I have not been able to afford the Hardcover yet and am
Kyle, It's VERY good. Things are now starting to tie together.
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* RM 1.3 00299 * "Peace be on you always and on all the People" - Tinkers
Mech Eng Student
>References: <2l33cp$v...@xmission.xmission.com>
>
>BB> There are some in here who dislike the series because of ZifNab... I
>BB> still haven't figgured it out. :) ... each to his own I guess. Good to
>
>So, you haven't figured out who Zifnab really is? :)
>
>BB> have the Thomas Covenant series to finnish and Dragonlance to start (both
>
>Well, if you're gonna to read Dragonlance, read only the Chronicles and
>Legends series. The others, IMO, are not as good. You WILL find out who
>Zifnab is after you read Dragonlance. It IS that obvious. :)
>
admit I missed it and took Zifnab's character entirely the wrong way for
a while.
*Spoilers for into the labyrinth*
When the Lord of the Nexus speaks to Zifnab alone we discover that he
was a Sartan who disagreed with Samah and was on Earth during the
Breaking of the world (Sorry wrong series B-). This next bit is all
IMHO. He went quite mad, was thrown into the centre of the Labyrinth and
started being a bit schizophrenic and taking on the personalities of famous
literary characters from the 20th century. We know he wrote the books
that Xar found in the Nexus, he says so in his moments of lucidity.
This means he got out of the Labyrinth first of everyone. At some point
he met up with a good version of the Dragon Snakes and was perhaps made
into a familiar? Anyway that's who Zifnab is
TTFN
Roderick Easton
3rd year Student Edinburgh University SCOTLAND
Travis Tabbal
>References: <2l33cp$v...@xmission.xmission.com>
>BB> There are some in here who dislike the series because of ZifNab... I
>BB> still haven't figgured it out. :) ... each to his own I guess. Good to
>So, you haven't figured out who Zifnab really is? :)
Nope, I haven't seen a Death Date FAQ, and the few discussions I have
seen refer to a character in DragonLance. I have not read them yet, and a
friend keeps hitting me on the head for it.. <G> I guess I'll find out.
>BB> have the Thomas Covenant series to finnish and Dragonlance to start (both
>Well, if you're gonna to read Dragonlance, read only the Chronicles and
>Legends series. The others, IMO, are not as good. You WILL find out who
>Zifnab is after you read Dragonlance. It IS that obvious. :)
That bad eh? Hmmmm... If they are usuing characters from other books, I
can see how people could not like that. I have two large books one is
Chronicles and one is Legends.. I believe there are 3 in each one.
Even so, I don't understand all the fuss, overall I have enjoyed Death
Gate and will finnish the series. I kinda like Zifnab, he adds a little
oddity tothe books, helps make them interesting. I may be a loner here
though. :)
Travis
big...@xmission.com
Mech Eng Student
>References: <CMAM8...@festival.ed.ac.uk>
>
>EE> *Spoilers for into the labyrinth*
>
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>
>EE> When the Lord of the Nexus speaks to Zifnab alone we discover that he
>EE> was a Sartan who disagreed with Samah and was on Earth during the
>
>No, Xar assumed that he's a Sartan, since Zifnab is not a Patyrn but seems to
>have extrordinary magical abilities. He's definitely not mensch, because a
>mensch would have died a few times.
>
>EE> Breaking of the world (Sorry wrong series B-). This next bit is all
>EE> IMHO. He went quite mad, was thrown into the centre of the Labyrinth and
>
>It's more like he's observed the Saundering of the World.
Yeah, that's the one, I just forgot the name. He was rambling on
about all the mensch dying and him not being able to do anything to help
even with all of his powers.
>
>EE> started being a bit schizophrenic and taking on the personalities of famou
>EE> literary characters from the 20th century. We know he wrote the books
>
>I would say that he has watched humans across space a time, since the plane in
>which he exists does not have the same properties of space and time.
>
>EE> that Xar found in the Nexus, he says so in his moments of lucidity.
>EE> This means he got out of the Labyrinth first of everyone. At some point
>
>He was never there.
>
NO, i'm sorry. He states categorically that he was thrown into the
centre of the labyrinth by Samah, just like Alfred. Xar is VERY
surprised, he din't know about Sartan in the labyrinth. I believe he
also claims to have written the books in the Nexus
>
>EE> he met up with a good version of the Dragon Snakes and was perhaps made
>
>No, there are no good versions of the Dragon Snakes.
>
>EE> into a familiar? Anyway that's who Zifnab is
>
>That is all good and well, but that's not who Zifnab is. If you read
>Dragonlance carefully, you would notice the exact same descriptions of Fizban
>and Zifnab. "Zifnab" is just a letter-rearranged version of "Fizban." Of
>course, we all know who Fizban is. He is the impersonation of the god of good,
>Palidine. And his dragon, is, of course, the ancient golden dragon that he
>rode in Dragonlance. He gave Tas a figurine of the gold dragon, remember?
>
>Remember, in _Fire Sea_, the Sartans, in attempting to contact the other
>worlds, contacted a Higher Power?
Yes, I know they did but it is not Zifnab. Whatever his true name is
Zifnab is just an affectation to try to take his mind of the terrible
events he saw during the sundering. The man is quite mad. There have
also been enought hints that the dragon is in control. Then, when it
goes off to fight the King Dragon-snake the Dragon-snake says something
like "You!" (ala JoaR). All this we learn from Into The Labyrinth
plie...@vnet.ibm.com
>In article <CME9K...@festival.ed.ac.uk>,
>Mech Eng Student <eme...@castle.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>>>That is all good and well, but that's not who Zifnab is. If you read
>>>Dragonlance carefully, you would notice the exact same descriptions of Fizban
>>>and Zifnab. "Zifnab" is just a letter-rearranged version of "Fizban." Of
>>>course, we all know who Fizban is. He is the impersonation of the god of good,
>
>I'm wondering if you actually meant 'incarnation' or 'avatar' here.
>Surely even Weis and Hickman wouldn't have a character walking around
>pretending to be a god; it's too easy to get called on it and lose.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>--
>Richard Wang
From what I remember of the story so far, there is no concept of God in this
'world'. So, by that token, there would be no one to chalenge his claim of
Deity status. Of course, one could challenge his identity as a Sartan, which
Xar has done already. I don't believe Weis & Hickman are asking us to believe
that he is really Paladine and/or any other deity incarnate. More importantly,
what the Dragon (and that damn doG) are is the real mystery. Zifnab is most
likely a Sartan who is so distraught over his peoples' part in the Sundering (not
to mention being a witness to it), that he's developed the perfect defense mechanism.
He ignores his true identity as the Sartan he was and assumes this babbling-idiot persona
known as Zifnab.
Some possible options to ponder....
Jarred P. Prejean
: hank...@toadhall.com (Hank Lee) writes:
: >References: <2l33cp$v...@xmission.xmission.com>
: Even so, I don't understand all the fuss, overall I have enjoyed Death
: Gate and will finnish the series. I kinda like Zifnab, he adds a little
: oddity tothe books, helps make them interesting. I may be a loner here
: though. :)
: Travis
: big...@xmission.com
Nope, not a loner. I also like Zifnab, and I have read Dragonlance (I
liked "him" there too).
Jarred Prejean
Jarred P. Prejean
: : >References: <2l33cp$v...@xmission.xmission.com>
: : Travis
: : big...@xmission.com
: Jarred Prejean
Wow, posting a followup to my own post, what a thrill! :)
Anyway, I forgot to ask the first time:
Does anyone know when Into the Labyrinth will be released in its paperback
version? I'm anxiously awaiting this joyous event.:)
Jarred Prejean
D J Roberts
>From what I remember of the story so far, there is no concept of God in this
>'world'. So, by that token, there would be no one to chalenge his claim of
>Deity status. Of course, one could challenge his identity as a Sartan, which
>Xar has done already. I don't believe Weis & Hickman are asking us to believe
>that he is really Paladine and/or any other deity incarnate. More importantly,
>what the Dragon (and that damn doG) are is the real mystery. Zifnab is most
>likely a Sartan who is so distraught over his peoples' part in the Sundering (not
>to mention being a witness to it), that he's developed the perfect defense mechanism.
>He ignores his true identity as the Sartan he was and assumes this babbling-idiot persona
>known as Zifnab.
>
>Some possible options to ponder....
>
>-Pat
>plie...@vnet.ibm.com
>
"The Hand of Chaos" gives the clue to the dogs identity. The Kenkari notice
that haplo doesn't have a soul. It is my belief that the dog is Haplo's
soul.There is some evidence in the book somewhere but I haven't got the
book to hand.
Hope this answers some questions, and carries on the Who is Zifnab debate!
I believe he is the good element, as the dragon-snakes are evil.
Dave Roberts pha...@gps.leeds.ac.uk
David G. Martin
-I say perhaps that 'Fizban' and 'Zifnab' are NOT supposed to be the same.
The authors are, IMHO, just setting it up that way, just to bother you.
Melissa
Hank Lee
DD> I have the impression that Weis & Hickman really intended to communicate
DD> that there is a relationship between "Fizban the Fabulous" and Zifnab the
DD> crazy wizard. They both act the same, there is the dragon. There are
DD> references to fireballs. They both have a tendency to die all over the pla
DD> And I vague recall some more reference to things that happened in Dragonla
DD> in one of his ramblings. Again, Fizban acts quite mad, and his job in the
DD> entire thing is to nudge things into the right direction.
Those convinced me that Zifnab MIGHT be Fizban, but the thing he said that
wiped all my doubts (that indeed he is Fizban) is in one of the earlier books.
I have an impression that the book is _Elven Star_. He mumbled about
Raistlin.
DD> The rabling about the sundering of the world is what throws me. It could
DD> be possible that Zifnab is lying. or He is actually a powerful sartan
DD> who becomes the "god" Paladin. That would put a good closure to connect
DD> Dragonlance and this series. ie: Paladin is coming home.
It could be that the Dragonlance took place far in the past and Death Gate
far in the future. A god is not bound by space and time. In the REAL 20th
century, there are no elves nor dwarves. If Weis and Hickman were to create
just ONE universe in all their books, then there might be a connection between
the Dragonlance world and the Death Gate world. It could be that the
Dragonlance world and the Death Gate world are really two worlds in parallel.
The Dragonlance world is taking place on another planet (they never said that
it was our Earth), and the Death Gate world is taking place on several others.
There are many possibilities. And I would like to see a small crossover from
Dragonlance into the Death Gate. :)
--
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| | Internet: hank...@toadhall.com |
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* RM 1.3 00299 * "Spells...of the ancients...mine....Mine...." - Raistlin
S E CHILDS
>EE> When the Lord of the Nexus speaks to Zifnab alone we discover that he
>EE> was a Sartan who disagreed with Samah and was on Earth during the
>No, Xar assumed that he's a Sartan, since Zifnab is not a Patyrn but seems to
>have extrordinary magical abilities. He's definitely not mensch, because a
>mensch would have died a few times.
He admitted that he was Sartan to Haplo in _The Hand of Chaos_.
>EE> Breaking of the world (Sorry wrong series B-). This next bit is all
>EE> IMHO. He went quite mad, was thrown into the centre of the Labyrinth and
>It's more like he's observed the Saundering of the World.
>EE> started being a bit schizophrenic and taking on the personalities of famou
>EE> literary characters from the 20th century. We know he wrote the books
>I would say that he has watched humans across space a time, since the plane in
>which he exists does not have the same properties of space and time.
>EE> that Xar found in the Nexus, he says so in his moments of lucidity.
>EE> This means he got out of the Labyrinth first of everyone. At some point
>He was never there.
>EE> he met up with a good version of the Dragon Snakes and was perhaps made
>No, there are no good versions of the Dragon Snakes.
Actually, there probably are. Since the wave corrects itself, there would
have to be an opposing force for good. The dragon snakes evil would create
a "buldge" the the wave and the wave would take corrective action.
>EE> into a familiar? Anyway that's who Zifnab is
>That is all good and well, but that's not who Zifnab is. If you read
>Dragonlance carefully, you would notice the exact same descriptions of Fizban
>and Zifnab. "Zifnab" is just a letter-rearranged version of "Fizban." Of
>course, we all know who Fizban is. He is the impersonation of the god of good,
>Palidine. And his dragon, is, of course, the ancient golden dragon that he
>rode in Dragonlance. He gave Tas a figurine of the gold dragon, remember?
He's NOT Palidine. Fizban is but not Zifnab. I don't think that W&H will
bring Palidine into the Death Gate universe. Zifnab read the Dragonlance
series and descided to 'play' Fizban (but he had to change his name).
>Remember, in _Fire Sea_, the Sartans, in attempting to contact the other
>worlds, contacted a Higher Power?
I really don't think that they contacted Palidine. Can W&H really use
Palidine. Isn't he owned by TSR. If they could they would have called him
Fizban. I think it would wreak the whole story if they brought in Palidine.
Stephen Childs
sechilds@cs-acad-lan
STEFAN M. THIEME
e) writes:
>References: <1994Mar11....@cs.cornell.edu>
>
>DD> The rabling about the sundering of the world is what throws me. It could
>DD> be possible that Zifnab is lying. or He is actually a powerful sartan
>DD> who becomes the "god" Paladin. That would put a good closure to connect
>DD> Dragonlance and this series. ie: Paladin is coming home.
>
>It could be that the Dragonlance took place far in the past and Death Gate
>far in the future. A god is not bound by space and time. In the REAL 20th
>century, there are no elves nor dwarves. If Weis and Hickman were to create
>just ONE universe in all their books, then there might be a connection between
>the Dragonlance world and the Death Gate world. It could be that the
>Dragonlance world and the Death Gate world are really two worlds in parallel.
>The Dragonlance world is taking place on another planet (they never said that
>it was our Earth), and the Death Gate world is taking place on several others.
>There are many possibilities. And I would like to see a small crossover from
>Dragonlance into the Death Gate. :)
>
and read the Dragonlance saga (free plug for W&H). He DID mention other
personalities from other books, remember (from LotR, I think, and from the
Arthurian sagas...its been a while. Of course, then it coulb be assumed that
W&H are placing themselves "up" there with Tolkein and Mallory).
bye.
--
||----------|| Then when the Dragon, put to second rout ||-------------------||
|| The || Came furious down to be reveng'd on Men || sm...@lehigh.edu ||
|| AVATAR || Woe to the inhabitants on Earth... ||take a step in time||
||__________|| - Paradise Lost book IV, l.3-5 ||___________________||
plie...@vnet.ibm.com
>Fizban. I think it would wreak the whole story if they brought in Palidine.
>
>Stephen Childs
>sechilds@cs-acad-lan
I just thought the whole concept of a God being owned by a company,
be he fictional or no, slightly amusing. :)
-Pat
plie...@vnet.ibm.com
"In times of crisis, it is of utmost importance not to lose ones head."
-M.Antoinette
Hank Lee
SC> He admitted that he was Sartan to Haplo in _The Hand of Chaos_.
Really? I'd always thought that was inferred.
SC> I really don't think that they contacted Palidine. Can W&H really use
SC> Palidine. Isn't he owned by TSR. If they could they would have called hi
You have a good point. But if he is Palidine, he's brought in under a
different name. We could say the character Zifnab has the characteristics of
Palidine, but that does not necessarily make him Palidine. Therefore, no legal
problems. :)
--
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| Hank Lee _|_ |
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| | Internet: hank...@toadhall.com |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
* RM 1.3 00299 * My ship came in but unfortunatly it was the flying dutchmen.
Hank Lee
Are these your observations or do you have other sources? If other sources,
what and where are they?
EE> earth during the Sundering. At various times he REALLY BELIEVES that he
EE> is Fizban and has met Raistlin; is James Bond; is a number of other
EE> various characters from 20th Century literature. However, his real
How does he even know about Raistlin, if he hadn't met Raistlin himself?
There are no indications that the Sundering took place in the near future of
the 20th century. If I remember it correctly, a group of humans re-discovered
the Wave because they were different. They were mutated by the post-atomic war
radiation, etc. As for James Bond, that's just Weis and Hickman humor, thown
in to confuse us.
There's a lot of mystery around this character, and evidence (however they
are) seem to point to a relationship between Fizban and Zifnab.
EE> This is Haplo's soul. We know this from a comment made by one of the
That's interesting.
EE> This is a big problem... IMAO it is the good equivalent of a
EE> Dragon-snake. I'm pretty sure that this is hinted at by the
If Zifnab is Fizban, then the problem is solved. No hints are necessary.
EE> that the higher intelligence is just God. It is not IMAO Paladine and
EE> definitely has no relationship to Zifnab at all, Unless, of course, its
EE> the Dragon....
Very possible, but then, Weis and Hickman don't just write about one god.
EE> That's all for now. See what being a Jordanite does for your powers
EE> of observation B-)
So, what does it do?
--
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| Hank Lee _|_ |
| _|_ Fido 1:125/217 | |
| | Internet: hank...@toadhall.com |
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* RM 1.3 00299 * "Est Sularas oth Mithas. My Honor is My Life." - Sturm