Pre-Plagiarism
John M. Gamble
are there about anticipatory plagiarism?
I thought of:
"Unsound Variations" by George R. R. Martin
"The Longest Science-Fiction Story Ever Told" by Arthur C. Clarke
"The Anticipator" by Morley Roberts (?) I haven't read this, but
my memory of the commentary in Clarke's *The Wind From The Sun*
says to me that this was a story of a pre-plagiarist which
Clarke mistakenly thought had been written by H. G. Wells.
--
-john
February 28 1997: Last day libraries could order catalogue cards
from the Library of Congress.
John M. Gamble
John M. Gamble <jga...@ripco.com> wrote:
>
>"The Anticipator" by Morley Roberts (?) I haven't read this, but
>my memory of the commentary in Clarke's *The Wind From The Sun*
>says to me that this was a story of a pre-plagiarist which
>Clarke mistakenly thought had been written by H. G. Wells.
>
Yup, it is by Morley Roberts, and a pdf of it may be found at:
www.horrormasters.com/Text/a0738.pdf
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Gamble) wrote:
>A comment on another thread prompted this obsf thought: What stories
>are there about anticipatory plagiarism?
>
>I thought of:
>"Unsound Variations" by George R. R. Martin
>
>"The Longest Science-Fiction Story Ever Told" by Arthur C. Clarke
>
>"The Anticipator" by Morley Roberts (?) I haven't read this, but
>my memory of the commentary in Clarke's *The Wind From The Sun*
>says to me that this was a story of a pre-plagiarist which
>Clarke mistakenly thought had been written by H. G. Wells.
"Who's Cribbing?" by the great Todd Thromberry.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
The fifth issue of Helix is at http://www.helixsf.com
The tenth Ethshar novel has been serialized at http://www.ethshar.com/thevondishambassador1.html
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
>are there about anticipatory plagiarism?
>
>I thought of:
>"Unsound Variations" by George R. R. Martin
>
>"The Longest Science-Fiction Story Ever Told" by Arthur C. Clarke
>
>"The Anticipator" by Morley Roberts (?) I haven't read this, but
>my memory of the commentary in Clarke's *The Wind From The Sun*
>says to me that this was a story of a pre-plagiarist which
>Clarke mistakenly thought had been written by H. G. Wells.
>
>--
> -john
"Hindsight" by Harry Turtledove (as Iverson) in the Kelvin Throop issue of
Analog.
"John Hayes and The Zeitgeist" by Ray Brown.
Ted
Dorothy J Heydt
>are there about anticipatory plagiarism?
>
>I thought of:
>"Unsound Variations" by George R. R. Martin
>
>"The Longest Science-Fiction Story Ever Told" by Arthur C. Clarke
>
>"The Anticipator" by Morley Roberts (?) I haven't read this, but
>my memory of the commentary in Clarke's *The Wind From The Sun*
>says to me that this was a story of a pre-plagiarist which
>Clarke mistakenly thought had been written by H. G. Wells.
There's a Turtledove story, "Hindsight" (it's in _Kaleidoscope_)
in which someone uses a time machine to go back to the 1950s and
submit (and get published) stories other authors were going to
write a year or two later ... until she gets caught at it. She
also writes and submits stories that really do reflect the
future. Her motive is not to acquire pelf but to educate the
American public so they won't be so anti-science toward the end
of the century.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Sea Wasp
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 19:17:30 +0000 (UTC), jga...@ripco.com (John M.
> Gamble) wrote:
>
>
>>A comment on another thread prompted this obsf thought: What stories
>>are there about anticipatory plagiarism?
>>
>>I thought of:
>>"Unsound Variations" by George R. R. Martin
>>
>>"The Longest Science-Fiction Story Ever Told" by Arthur C. Clarke
>>
>>"The Anticipator" by Morley Roberts (?) I haven't read this, but
>>my memory of the commentary in Clarke's *The Wind From The Sun*
>>says to me that this was a story of a pre-plagiarist which
>>Clarke mistakenly thought had been written by H. G. Wells.
>
>
> "Who's Cribbing?" by the great Todd Thromberry.
Hey! I posted that! Who's this Watt-Evans guy, and why's he getting
credit for my Ethshar novels?
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
William December Starr
jga...@ripco.com (John M. Gamble) said:
> A comment on another thread prompted this obsf thought:
> What stories are there about anticipatory plagiarism?
The central character in Tim Powers' THE ANUBIS GATES's
actions regarding a certain poem might count.
Then again, they might not.
--
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
Dorothy J Heydt
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <f9d4sa$len$1...@e250.ripco.com>,
>jga...@ripco.com (John M. Gamble) said:
>
>> A comment on another thread prompted this obsf thought:
>> What stories are there about anticipatory plagiarism?
>
>The central character in Tim Powers' THE ANUBIS GATES's
>actions regarding a certain poem might count.
>
>Then again, they might not.
I haven't read _The Anubis Gates_ and, considering my adverse
reaction to the one Powers I did read,* am unlikely to. Would
you care to tell me (by email, or with spoiler space, or whatever)
what the poem was?
_____
*_The Drawing of the Dark._ The fate of Europe depends upon a
vat of beer. I was underwhelmed.
Mike Schilling
> In article <f9e2f8$fe2$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
>> In article <f9d4sa$len$1...@e250.ripco.com>,
>> jga...@ripco.com (John M. Gamble) said:
>>
>>> A comment on another thread prompted this obsf thought:
>>> What stories are there about anticipatory plagiarism?
>>
>> The central character in Tim Powers' THE ANUBIS GATES's
>> actions regarding a certain poem might count.
>>
>> Then again, they might not.
>
> I haven't read _The Anubis Gates_ and, considering my adverse
> reaction to the one Powers I did read,* am unlikely to. Would
> you care to tell me (by email, or with spoiler space, or whatever)
> what the poem was?
<spoiler space>
</spoiler space>
The main character of TAG is an English professor who has a special interest
in an obscure Romantic poet named William Ashbless. He travels back in time
to the early 19th century, is magically switched to another body which looks
remarkably like the surviving pictures of Ashbless, and it turns out to be
damned handy that he knows Ashbless's work by heart, if you get my drift.
Dorothy J Heydt
Aha. Like Tenn's "The Discovery of Morniel Mathaway."
As for Ashbless, Wikipedia claims he's fictional, invented by
Powers and his buddy Blaylock.
Has anyone done that kind of work with a *real* poet?
There's always the possibility of the reduplication of da Vinci,
suggested in Heinlein's _The Door Into Summer._ Anyone know of a
twist like that for a poet?
As for inventing purposefully bad verse, my friend Kay and I did
that before we were in high school.
"Oh hideous torment
I have seen green weeds
Running o'er the bridges,
Trampling, dancing on the churches.
Farewell to the dove
As she falls prey to the spider.
Darling, you're getting fat.
Eat green weeds."
I *think* we bamboozled a fair number of teachers; or else they
were being unnaturally polite.
Howard Brazee
wrote:
>There's always the possibility of the reduplication of da Vinci,
>suggested in Heinlein's _The Door Into Summer._ Anyone know of a
>twist like that for a poet?
Not really - but there is the time traveler who became "The Stranger
at the Door".
John M. Gamble
Yup, they invented him while they were in college. If I recall
correctly, neither one knew that they were going to use him in
their own works until they read each other's (first draft?) works.
They've also written some of his poetry, and a short biography. In a
rage, Ashbless responded (needless to say, this was a strange volume).
Mike Schilling
Another Ashbless poem is quoted in _Last Call_. It's about flying to Las
Vegas, which AFAIK was never touched upon by Byron or Shelley.
David DeLaney
>reaction to the one Powers I did read,* am unlikely to.
>*_The Drawing of the Dark._ The fate of Europe depends upon a
>vat of beer. I was underwhelmed.
In my opinion, his trilogy Last Call / Expiration Date / Earthquake Weather
is definitely better; the first two are even self-contained, so you can, if
needed, read one and find you want to throw it against the wall without
touching the other one at all.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
John M. Gamble
David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>I haven't read _The Anubis Gates_ and, considering my adverse
>>reaction to the one Powers I did read,* am unlikely to.
>>_____
>>*_The Drawing of the Dark._ The fate of Europe depends upon a
>>vat of beer. I was underwhelmed.
>
>In my opinion, his trilogy Last Call / Expiration Date / Earthquake Weather
>is definitely better; the first two are even self-contained, so you can, if
>needed, read one and find you want to throw it against the wall without
>touching the other one at all.
>
I like Powers a lot, but I warn people about those books as a whole.
*Last Call* was fine, *Expiration Date* gave me a "I've read this book
before" feeling, because I had indeed read that book before in *Last Call*.
On the other hand, *Earthquake Weather* combined the two so masterfully
that it made up for the half-story book of *Expiration Date*.
David DeLaney
>>In my opinion, his trilogy Last Call / Expiration Date / Earthquake Weather
>>is definitely better; the first two are even self-contained, so you can, if
>>needed, read one and find you want to throw it against the wall without
>>touching the other one at all.
>
>I like Powers a lot, but I warn people about those books as a whole.
>*Last Call* was fine, *Expiration Date* gave me a "I've read this book
>before" feeling, because I had indeed read that book before in *Last Call*.
>On the other hand, *Earthquake Weather* combined the two so masterfully
>that it made up for the half-story book of *Expiration Date*.
I think I've described them collectively before as the archives of what a
_GOOD_ Mage the Ascension game might play like (and, to your point, they're
actually two different campaigns that for the third book have combined forces
and are playing combined sessions, with one player who had to miss several
play-sessions in a row...).
I didn't think LC and ED were very much alike - _much_ different systems
of magic, for example; older protagonist with lots of history that keeps
coming back and bitin' him and with supporting characters from said history
vs younger protagonist cut off from his previous life who keeps finding OUT
new bits about his secret history; the ubiquitous deck-of-cards theme in LC
vs the ubiquitous Alice-in-Wonderland theme in ED. I suppose you could meta-
match them up, but it doesn't happen to me while I'm actually reading them.
Dorothy J Heydt
>>I haven't read _The Anubis Gates_ and, considering my adverse
>>reaction to the one Powers I did read,* am unlikely to.
>>_____
>>*_The Drawing of the Dark._ The fate of Europe depends upon a
>>vat of beer. I was underwhelmed.
>
>In my opinion, his trilogy Last Call / Expiration Date / Earthquake Weather
>is definitely better; the first two are even self-contained, so you can, if
>needed, read one and find you want to throw it against the wall without
>touching the other one at all.
Thank you, but at this stage I would be inclined to look at the
author's name and, well, not throw it against the wall, I hate to
do that to books, but put it back on the shelf unread.
William December Starr
d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) said:
> In my opinion, his trilogy Last Call / Expiration Date /
> Earthquake Weather is definitely better; the first two are even
> self-contained, so you can, if needed, read one and find you want
> to throw it against the wall without touching the other one at
> all.
Or, one could read LAST CALL and stop there, happy.
(I have no idea whether EARTHQUAKE WEATHER is any good or not.
I found EXPIRATION DATE so disappointing that I stopped there.)
Jani Jaakkola
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
> *_The Drawing of the Dark._ The fate of Europe depends upon a
> vat of beer. I was underwhelmed.
I'd swap a hundred world saving angsty teenagers for that vat of beer, but
then again I am an european who takes his beer seriously :)
Anyway, Drawing of the Dark is a bad place to start reading Tim Powers. It
is was an early work after all. I am a fan, but I still haven't gotten
through the other early works, The Skies Discrowned and An Epitaph in Rust.
If you ever feel like trying again, I'd go with Anubis Gates or Declare.
- Jani
Mike Schilling
Or _Last Call_. Or even _On Stranger Tides_.
Dorothy J Heydt
Sea Wasp
> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_____
>>*_The Drawing of the Dark._ The fate of Europe depends upon a
>>vat of beer. I was underwhelmed.
>
>
> I'd swap a hundred world saving angsty teenagers for that vat of beer, but
> then again I am an european who takes his beer seriously :)
While I would trade the entire stock of beer, plus the knowledge to
make it, for one angsty teenager. And I don't particularly LIKE them
angsty.
No 33 Secretary
news:46BCE51...@sgeObviousinc.com:
> Jani Jaakkola wrote:
>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_____
>>>*_The Drawing of the Dark._ The fate of Europe depends upon a
>>>vat of beer. I was underwhelmed.
>>
>>
>> I'd swap a hundred world saving angsty teenagers for that vat
>> of beer, but then again I am an european who takes his beer
>> seriously :)
>
> While I would trade the entire stock of beer, plus the
> knowledge to
> make it, for one angsty teenager. And I don't particularly LIKE
> them angsty.
>
While I agree that beer isn't fit for human consumption, it *is*
smarter, better company, and more intellectually stimulating than
any teenager, however angsty. (Teenagers generally look better
nekkid, though.)
--
"If he does that shit again I'm going to tie his ass hairs together
and kick him in the shin."
Terry Austin
Sea Wasp
> Sea Wasp <seawasp...@sgeObviousinc.com> wrote in
> news:46BCE51...@sgeObviousinc.com:
>
>
>>Jani Jaakkola wrote:
>>
>>>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_____
>>>>*_The Drawing of the Dark._ The fate of Europe depends upon a
>>>>vat of beer. I was underwhelmed.
>>>
>>>
>>>I'd swap a hundred world saving angsty teenagers for that vat
>>>of beer, but then again I am an european who takes his beer
>>>seriously :)
>>
>> While I would trade the entire stock of beer, plus the
>> knowledge to
>>make it, for one angsty teenager. And I don't particularly LIKE
>>them angsty.
>>
>
> While I agree that beer isn't fit for human consumption, it *is*
> smarter, better company, and more intellectually stimulating than
> any teenager, however angsty. (Teenagers generally look better
> nekkid, though.)
>
I have a couple teenagers that violate your rule; one of them's in my
current Ravenloft campaign.
Mike Schilling
>> While I agree that beer isn't fit for human consumption, it *is*
>> smarter, better company, and more intellectually stimulating than
>> any teenager, however angsty. (Teenagers generally look better
>> nekkid, though.)
>>
>
> I have a couple teenagers that violate your rule; one of them's in my
> current Ravenloft campaign.
At least half of them violate that rule. Some of the girls, too.
No 33 Secretary
Bah. They're actually older, but bath in the blood of virgins to
maintain their youthful appearance.
Sea Wasp
The two I was speaking of *ARE* girls.
Kurt Busiek
My problem with EARTHQUAKE WEATHER is that while LAST CALL has a naive
hero and a wise older man who teaches that hero, and EXPIRATION DATE
also has a naive hero and a wise older man who teaches that hero, in
EARTHQUAKE WEATHER nobody has gone away and the formerly-naive heroes
don't really need mentors any more, so it starts to feel as if everyone
can pull new plot-diverting magic out of their ass at any time,
everyone knows what they're doing and the stage is crowded with the
no-longer-necessary mechanics of the previous two novels.
On the other hand, I really liked LAST CALL, so the "stop there, happy"
idea works for me.
On the Powers front, I recently read THE BIBLE REPAIRMAN, SOUL IN A
BOTTLE and STRANGE ITINERARIES, and enjoyed them all. I think his tone
works very well for short fiction.
kdb
Kurt Busiek
> Anyway, Drawing of the Dark is a bad place to start reading Tim Powers. It
> is was an early work after all.
It's where I started, and I loved it. But maybe that's just me.
> If you ever feel like trying again, I'd go with Anubis Gates or Declare.
On the other hand, if I'd started with either of these, I wouldn't
continue. ANUBIS GATES was the second Powers I read, and it just
didn't do anything for me, and DECLARE was just, to my mind at least,
muddy and portentous without being involving or having a satisfying
payoff.
kdb
Kurt Busiek
Based on the impressio of your tastes that I've gotten from reading
your posts (which may be wildly inaccurate), I don't think you'd much
like any Powers.
kdb
Mike Schilling
> On 2007-08-09 23:16:29 -0700, Jani Jaakkola <jjaa...@cs.helsinki.fi>
> said:
>> Anyway, Drawing of the Dark is a bad place to start reading Tim
>> Powers. It is was an early work after all.
>
> It's where I started, and I loved it. But maybe that's just me.
>
>> If you ever feel like trying again, I'd go with Anubis Gates or
>> Declare.
>
> On the other hand, if I'd started with either of these, I wouldn't
> continue. ANUBIS GATES was the second Powers I read, and it just
> didn't do anything for me,
That just shows how mileage varies. It's one of my favorite books, period,
a beautifully constructed non-stop roller-coaster ride of intelligent,
literate action.
> and DECLARE was just, to my mind at least,
> muddy and portentous without being involving or having a satisfying
> payoff.
There we agree. Though I find that Powers often improves on re-reading,
since there's so much going at so many different levels that it's difficult
to grasp enough of it the first time through, so at some point I'll give
Declare another try.
Kurt Busiek
<mscotts...@hotmail.com> said:
> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>> On 2007-08-09 23:16:29 -0700, Jani Jaakkola <jjaa...@cs.helsinki.fi>
>> said:
>>> If you ever feel like trying again, I'd go with Anubis Gates or
>>> Declare.
>>
>> On the other hand, if I'd started with either of these, I wouldn't
>> continue. ANUBIS GATES was the second Powers I read, and it just
>> didn't do anything for me,
>
> That just shows how mileage varies. It's one of my favorite books, period,
> a beautifully constructed non-stop roller-coaster ride of intelligent,
> literate action.
Completely understood about mileage varying. I heard so many good
things about it, but it just didn't come to life for me. As a result,
I've been hesitant to read ON STRANGER TIDES, since it gets much the
same type and tenor of reader reaction.
>> and DECLARE was just, to my mind at least,
>> muddy and portentous without being involving or having a satisfying
>> payoff.
>
> There we agree. Though I find that Powers often improves on re-reading,
> since there's so much going at so many different levels that it's difficult
> to grasp enough of it the first time through, so at some point I'll give
> Declare another try.
I'll give ANUBIS GATES another try sometime, but I don't think I'll
re-essay DECLARE.
kdb
Chris Thompson
>in which someone uses a time machine to go back to the 1950s and
>submit (and get published) stories other authors were going to
>write a year or two later ... until she gets caught at it. She
>also writes and submits stories that really do reflect the
>future. Her motive is not to acquire pelf but to educate the
>American public so they won't be so anti-science toward the end
>of the century.
And does it work out? I don't see how publishing a few stories
a year or two earlier, and pissing off the real authors so that
they probably give up writing SF altogether, is going to have
a beneficial effect.
--
Chris Thompson
Email: cet1 [at] cam.ac.uk
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
We don't get to see how it turned out. We do see however that one of
the 50s SF authors she pre-plagurizes doesn't like the shape of the US society
of the future at all -- as exemplified by _her_.
Ted
Dorothy J Heydt
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>>There's a Turtledove story, "Hindsight" (it's in _Kaleidoscope_)
>>in which someone uses a time machine to go back to the 1950s and
>>submit (and get published) stories other authors were going to
>>write a year or two later ... until she gets caught at it. She
>>also writes and submits stories that really do reflect the
>>future. Her motive is not to acquire pelf but to educate the
>>American public so they won't be so anti-science toward the end
>>of the century.
>
>And does it work out?
We aren't told. The two people who find out about it in 1953 or
thereabouts remain in 1953 and don't know how it came out.
The really interesting part was the contrast between what the two
guys in 1953 (a science fiction writer, and J. W. Campbell with
the serial numbers filed off) were expecting from the future, and
the reality as reported by the visitor. "How many centuries did
it take this technology to develop?" "Sorry, only about thirty
years."
I don't see how publishing a few stories
>a year or two earlier, and pissing off the real authors so that
>they probably give up writing SF altogether, is going to have
>a beneficial effect.
Maybe not. Perhaps that's not what the story is about? Maybe
Turtledove intended merely to contrast the 50s with the 80s? I
don't know, but that was what I took away from it.
There was a fair amount of nostalgia value too, for those who
remember the 1950s. He even mentioned Red Blanchard.
Dorothy J Heydt
Thank you; that's what I think too.
This isn't to say he's a bad writer, nor that his work is bad.
_TDotD_ was competently written. It just had premises that I do
not accept, nohow.
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> said
<big snip>
>>Based on the impressio of your tastes that I've gotten from reading
>>your posts (which may be wildly inaccurate), I don't think you'd much
>>like any Powers.
>
>Thank you; that's what I think too.
>
>This isn't to say he's a bad writer, nor that his work is bad.
>_TDotD_ was competently written. It just had premises that I do
>not accept, nohow.
>
You might try _The Anubis Gates_ though .. that's about the only one I
thought worth keeping, and is definitely off at a tangent from the
others.
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
8,963 Km walked. 1,746Km PROWs surveyed. 31.7% complete.
Gene Ward Smith
news:Yaovi.1621$3x....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
> That just shows how mileage varies. It's one of my favorite books,
> period, a beautifully constructed non-stop roller-coaster ride of
> intelligent, literate action.
>
One of the great fantasy novels of the twentieth century. When you've read
Tolkien, and want to read something else which is completely different,
it's a great recommendation.
--
"I barf on you all." © Gene Ward Smith, 2007. All rights reserved.
Andy Leighton
GSV Three Minds in a Can <G...@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
> Bitstring <JMMtC...@kithrup.com>, from the wonderful person Dorothy J
> Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> said
><big snip>
>
>>>Based on the impressio of your tastes that I've gotten from reading
>>>your posts (which may be wildly inaccurate), I don't think you'd much
>>>like any Powers.
>>
>>Thank you; that's what I think too.
>>
>>This isn't to say he's a bad writer, nor that his work is bad.
>>_TDotD_ was competently written. It just had premises that I do
>>not accept, nohow.
>>
> You might try _The Anubis Gates_ though .. that's about the only one I
> thought worth keeping, and is definitely off at a tangent from the
> others.
It certainly does have a different feel to it.
I don't know, it is hard to suggest books for people. But I enjoyed the
_The Stress Of Her Regard_ probably more than most. A story which looks
at the three great romantic poets (Shelley, Keats and Byron) and their
muse (la belle dame sans merci). How you react to Powers pretty much
depends on how you react to secret histories. If you don't care for secret
histories nearly all of Powers will leave you cold.
--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
Andy Leighton
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Abbas's representative setting. Occasionally, taxs combine before
established sediments, unless they're young. Patty fulfils, then
Charles swiftly wraps a net store till Pervis's invasion. While
coats wistfully struggle stops, the minoritys often confuse in accordance with the
clumsy laws. It can regain once, stir permanently, then come
at the amendment rather than the crack. Plenty of nutty eds are
wasteful and other governing residues are persistent, but will
Tariq administer that?
Andy Leighton
Ghassan's panel useds below our tribute after we melt against it.
You drain at first if Norma's clarity isn't strict. Try evolving the
catalogue's uniform exercise and Muhammad will dominate you!
Who clutchs o'clock, when Priscilla sets the steep ward towards the
nursery? We accompany british delegations until the regulatory
nearby estate, whilst Bernice perhaps copes them too. They are
relieving in front of the membership now, won't fund bulks later.
Don't regain still while you're conducting up a realistic handicap.
Some impossible glimpses under the classical bathroom were seizing
up the established bias. I am silently powerful, so I join you.
Tomorrow, go employ a grip! The intensitys, advertisings, and
eases are all musical and principal. Are you particular, I mean,
plunging over spotty customers? Some related developed remainders will
straight discourage the bars. Both forgiving now, Taysseer and
Ayaz pronounced the glad landings on to soviet broadcast. Satam
integrates, then Osama beautifully limits a managing pan for
David's hill. A lot of white maximum lentil traps nerves till
Ophelia's loose cat.
John M. Gamble
GSV Three Minds in a Can <G...@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>Bitstring <JMMtC...@kithrup.com>, from the wonderful person Dorothy J
>Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> said
><big snip>
>
>>>Based on the impressio of your tastes that I've gotten from reading
>>>your posts (which may be wildly inaccurate), I don't think you'd much
>>>like any Powers.
>>
>>Thank you; that's what I think too.
>>
>>This isn't to say he's a bad writer, nor that his work is bad.
>>_TDotD_ was competently written. It just had premises that I do
>>not accept, nohow.
>>
>You might try _The Anubis Gates_ though .. that's about the only one I
>thought worth keeping, and is definitely off at a tangent from the
>others.
>
I'm not certain about that. *The Anubis Gates* is a fairly blood-thirsty
book, which I'm under the impression might be an objection.
I say this as a reader who buys everything Powers writes, by the way.
I suspect laundry lists might even get my money.
--
-john
February 28 1997: Last day libraries could order catalogue cards
from the Library of Congress.
John M. Gamble
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <f9lefh$iq1$1...@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
>Chris Thompson <ce...@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>In article <JMH0B...@kithrup.com>,
>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>There's a Turtledove story, "Hindsight" (it's in _Kaleidoscope_)
>>>in which someone uses a time machine to go back to the 1950s and
>>>submit (and get published) stories other authors were going to
>>>write a year or two later ... until she gets caught at it. She
>>>also writes and submits stories that really do reflect the
>>>future. Her motive is not to acquire pelf but to educate the
>>>American public so they won't be so anti-science toward the end
>>>of the century.
>>
>>And does it work out? I don't see how publishing a few stories
>>a year or two earlier, and pissing off the real authors so that
>>they probably give up writing SF altogether, is going to have
>>a beneficial effect.
>>
Most of the authors don't know they've been plagiarized. Many of
the stories hadn't been thought of when she wrote them out. The
plan goes awry when Not Really Poul Anderson sees a story that
he thought of in that time period, but didn't get around to writing
decades later.
>
>We don't get to see how it turned out. We do see however that one of
>the 50s SF authors she pre-plagurizes doesn't like the shape of the US society
>of the future at all -- as exemplified by _her_.
>
Hmm, he turns down an advance. This is not quite the total rejection of
society that you think is implied.
Also, he is pre-disposed not to like her, as she did plagiarize him.
PV
>I haven't read _The Anubis Gates_ and, considering my adverse
>reaction to the one Powers I did read,* am unlikely to. Would
>you care to tell me (by email, or with spoiler space, or whatever)
>what the poem was?
It was a fictional poet named William Ashbless. One of the principal
characters takes over this poet's identity. It's a very fun book.
>*_The Drawing of the Dark._ The fate of Europe depends upon a
>vat of beer. I was underwhelmed.
That was a very early book, but it has a lot of the flavor (pun intended)
of Power's subsequent work. The man is a genius - give him another try. For
a light introduction, I would suggest "On Stranger Ties". If you want
slightly tougher sledding, you might want to try one of the best vampire
books ever written, "The Stress of her Regard".
I'm hoping he goes back to the historicals. I loved "Last Call" to death,
but I wasn't fond of the two followups all that much, and "Declare" was
hit-or-miss. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
John M. Gamble
Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.comics> wrote:
>On 2007-08-09 23:16:29 -0700, Jani Jaakkola <jjaa...@cs.helsinki.fi> said:
>
>> Anyway, Drawing of the Dark is a bad place to start reading Tim Powers. It
>> is was an early work after all.
>
>It's where I started, and I loved it. But maybe that's just me.
Likewise, up to a point. There were passages that I thought were
exceptional - I'm *still* amused by the scene where the hero bums
a ride off of Charon - but it sort of fell down for me when it
turned out that it was Yet Another Xvat Neguhe Ergheaf story.
James Nicoll has druids as a story-ruiner, I have Xvat Neguhe.
(http://www.rot13.com for the confused).
Nonetheless, I was impressed enough to look out for him if he published
anymore books. I was very happy with *The Anubis Gates*.
>
>> If you ever feel like trying again, I'd go with Anubis Gates or Declare.
>
>On the other hand, if I'd started with either of these, I wouldn't
>continue. ANUBIS GATES was the second Powers I read, and it just
>didn't do anything for me, and DECLARE was just, to my mind at least,
>muddy and portentous without being involving or having a satisfying
>payoff.
>
Mmm, I liked *Declare* despite having no taste for John le Carre,
whose style and sandbox Powers is messing with. It took a couple
of chapters to get truly involved though.
PV
>Or, one could read LAST CALL and stop there, happy.
>
>(I have no idea whether EARTHQUAKE WEATHER is any good or not.
>I found EXPIRATION DATE so disappointing that I stopped there.)
Earthquake Weather redeems Expiration Date quite a bit. Neither is up to
the level of Last Call though - that book is a cut above everything else
he's written. *
PV
>I don't know, it is hard to suggest books for people. But I enjoyed the
>_The Stress Of Her Regard_ probably more than most. A story which looks
I'm so glad to hear someone else say that. It's my second favorite Powers
novel, and way up there on my favorite books of all time. It can be hard to
get into at first though, it's DENSE. *
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
His personal feelings towards her weren't quite my point. He takes
her casual advance to mean that sexual morals have moved in a
direction not to his liking. He draws similar conclusions on the
direction of crime and public order based on her locking her house
every time she goes out back to her study.
Ted
Sean Eric Fagan
PV <pv+u...@pobox.com> wrote:
>Earthquake Weather redeems Expiration Date quite a bit. Neither is up to
>the level of Last Call though - that book is a cut above everything else
>he's written. *
LC was the second TP book I read. I read THE ANUBIS GATE, and didn't care for
it. I don't remember why I picked up LC, but I liked it so much I've read his
subsequent books. And not been as happy with them. Ah well.
William December Starr
jga...@ripco.com (John M. Gamble) said:
[ re THE DRAWING OF THE DARK ]
> There were passages that I thought were exceptional - I'm *still*
> amused by the scene where the hero bums a ride off of Charon - but
> it sort of fell down for me when it turned out that it was Yet
> Another Xvat Neguhe Ergheaf story. James Nicoll has druids as a
> story-ruiner, I have Xvat Neguhe. (http://www.rot13.com for the
> confused).
You know, "Xvat Neguhe" would be a pretty good character name...
--
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
Gene Ward Smith
@panix2.panix.com:
> In article <f9qai5$pr4$1...@e250.ripco.com>,
> You know, "Xvat Neguhe" would be a pretty good character name...
As long as he didn't decide to erghea.
Mike Schilling
So would Zreyva, Thvarirer, and Ynaprybg.
Joseph Nebus
>William December Starr wrote:
>> In article <f9qai5$pr4$1...@e250.ripco.com>,
>> jga...@ripco.com (John M. Gamble) said:
>>
>> [ re THE DRAWING OF THE DARK ]
>>> James Nicoll has druids as a
>>> story-ruiner, I have Xvat Neguhe. (http://www.rot13.com for the
>>> confused).
>>
>> You know, "Xvat Neguhe" would be a pretty good character name...
>So would Zreyva, Thvarirer, and Ynaprybg.
I thought Ynaprybg was a louse?
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Duffy
Am I the only person who likes _Dinner at Deviant's Palace_?
David Duffy.
Mike Schilling
David Duffy wrote:
>
>> I'm hoping he goes back to the historicals. I loved "Last Call" to
>> death, but I wasn't fond of the two followups all that much, and
>> "Declare" was hit-or-miss. *
>> --
>
> Am I the only person who likes _Dinner at Deviant's Palace_?
Yes.
Aaron Denney
No, but among his better work it isn't.
--
Aaron Denney
-><-
David DeLaney
>"Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>William December Starr wrote:
>>> You know, "Xvat Neguhe" would be a pretty good character name...
>
>>So would Zreyva, Thvarirer, and Ynaprybg.
>
> I thought Ynaprybg was a louse?
Nah, that's Yngvie. (I don't know _why_, but suspect I was not meant to.)
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Gene Ward Smith
$RX....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net:
>> Am I the only person who likes _Dinner at Deviant's Palace_?
>
> Yes.
>
No.
David DeLaney
>On 2007-08-15, Gene Ward Smith <ge...@chewbacca.org> wrote:
>> "Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Am I the only person who likes _Dinner at Deviant's Palace_?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>
>> No.
>
"Try another newsgroup".
T Guy
> His personal feelings towards her weren't quite my point. He takes
> her casual advance to mean that sexual morals have moved in a
> direction not to his liking.
(T Guy):
I really don't understand this attitude. I would have thought that any
man would welcome this move in sexual mores the way any woman would
welcome equal pay for identical work.
T G
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I'm not sure he wasn't fairly liberal about uncommitted players.
If he really was based on Poul Anderson, I recall his characters
could play the field before they were committed, but after that,
it was pretty intense. The girl _knew_ he was married, and came
on to him anyway, and he didn't like what _that_ said about her
(and us).
Ted
Kurt Busiek
> Paul Arthur <flower...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 2007-08-15, Gene Ward Smith <ge...@chewbacca.org> wrote:
>>> "Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Am I the only person who likes _Dinner at Deviant's Palace_?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> Maybe.
>
> "Try another newsgroup".
Future hazy. Ask again later.
kdb
Howard
>
> Mmm, I liked *Declare* despite having no taste for John le Carre,
> whose style and sandbox Powers is messing with. It took a couple
> of chapters to get truly involved though.
>
That's my feeling also. I've never been able to read le Carre, and
Declare seemed to start slowly, but I eneded up putting it fairly high
on my Powers list (Last Call is probably my favorite).
Howard
>
> Am I the only person who likes _Dinner at Deviant's Palace_?
>
No, it just isn't as good as a lot of his other work.