Newsreader Question
Kurt Busiek
I've been posting in the "Starving people" thread, which is crossposted
to two groups, and most of the messages go through just fine. Some of
them -- an increasing number of them, lately -- have been getting this
error message:
"The server said: 'Crossposts without follow up to are not allowed'"
I assume (but am not sure) that this is Solani's error message, not Unison's.
I'm also assuming that it's partly a function of the messages I'm
responding to, because some of them go through fine, and some of them
don't, so this "without follow up to" business seems to be peculiar to
some messages but not a general thing.
I can't figure out how I can fix -- or even check on -- the "follow up
to" status. So in those cases I'm replying only to rasfw, even though
the person I'm responding to may be in afu, because I'm not reading
this stuff in afu.
Any advice on how to fix the problem, or a fuller understanding of why
this is occurring, would be appreciated. If there's some way I can fix
it without changing my newsreader or newsfeed, that'd be best -- but as
it is, I don't even know why some messages have a "follow up to" and
some apparently don't.
Thanks!
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Szymon Sokół
Just a wild guess, but based on experience: Solani may be cutting
crossposted threads after a certain thread length has been reached, and they
check your References: header to see how may previous articles in the thread
you are referencing. If you can trim that header to only 1-2 last articles,
that may fool their checks. But if you can't set Followup-To: header, you
probably can't set the References: header either. Check Unison manual.
--
Szymon Sokół (SS316-RIPE) -- Network Manager B
Computer Center, AGH - University of Science and Technology, Cracow, Poland O
http://home.agh.edu.pl/szymon/ PGP key id: RSA: 0x2ABE016B, DSS: 0xF9289982 F
Free speech includes the right not to listen, if not interested -- Heinlein H
Kurt Busiek
<szy...@bastard.operator.from.hell.pl> said:
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:36:01 -0800, Kurt Busiek wrote:
>
>> Any advice on how to fix the problem, or a fuller understanding of why
>> this is occurring, would be appreciated. If there's some way I can fix
>> it without changing my newsreader or newsfeed, that'd be best -- but as
>> it is, I don't even know why some messages have a "follow up to" and
>> some apparently don't.
>
> Just a wild guess, but based on experience: Solani may be cutting
> crossposted threads after a certain thread length has been reached, and they
> check your References: header to see how may previous articles in the thread
> you are referencing. If you can trim that header to only 1-2 last articles,
> that may fool their checks. But if you can't set Followup-To: header, you
> probably can't set the References: header either. Check Unison manual.
Thanks.
I'm a little lost on what hat would have to do with the "follow up to"
header, if it's about the number of responses rather than what's in the
follow up to header.
But I'll poke around when I get a chance and see what I can find.
Robert Carnegie
> I'm using Unison, and my newsfeed is Solani.
>
> I've been posting in the "Starving people" thread, which is crossposted
> to two groups, and most of the messages go through just fine. Some of
> them -- an increasing number of them, lately -- have been getting this
> error message:
>
> "The server said: 'Crossposts without follow up to are not allowed'"
>
> I assume (but am not sure) that this is Solani's error message, not Unison's.
It does sound as though your own Unison software is describing an
error message from the Solani server. I don't know whether that in
turn is a per-newsgroup policy, or Solani's own. To me it appears to
be describing a law that you can only post into multiple groups if you
specify a follow-up line that - for there to be a point to this -
directs responses into only one of the groups, to reduce redundant
traffic.
Maybe some of your posts are already thus filtered.
Your own interest will be met, I suppose, by either altering articles
to post into rasfw only, or adding the required header entry which I
think goes like "Followup-to: rec.arts.sf.written" or else is a
specific option in your software, whilst your article itself appears
in two groups. In case other folks in either group don't notice that,
it may be appropriate to include it explicitly in the message body as
well, where it will not have an effect but will get noticed.
Maybe it's also related to fragmentation of this mighty thread as seen
in Google Groups, as lots of short threads. Incidentally, in Google
Groups viewed in the Opera browser, which is how I'm sending this, I
see a form option to "Add followup-to header" (to my message), but it
does not do anything. Perhaps it needs Javascript, and I have
switched that off for general browsing. I can switch it on for
individual sites.
Kurt Busiek
> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>> I'm using Unison, and my newsfeed is Solani.
>>
>> I've been posting in the "Starving people" thread, which is crossposted
>> to two groups, and most of the messages go through just fine. Some of
>> them -- an increasing number of them, lately -- have been getting this
>> error message:
>>
>> "The server said: 'Crossposts without follow up to are not allowed'"
>>
>> I assume (but am not sure) that this is Solani's error message, not Unison's.
>
> It does sound as though your own Unison software is describing an
> error message from the Solani server. I don't know whether that in
> turn is a per-newsgroup policy, or Solani's own. To me it appears to
> be describing a law that you can only post into multiple groups if you
> specify a follow-up line that - for there to be a point to this -
> directs responses into only one of the groups, to reduce redundant
> traffic.
>
> Maybe some of your posts are already thus filtered.
Maybe. But many, many posts went through -- even replying to some of
the same posters -- before this started happening.
> Your own interest will be met, I suppose, by either altering articles
> to post into rasfw only, or adding the required header entry which I
> think goes like "Followup-to: rec.arts.sf.written" or else is a
> specific option in your software, whilst your article itself appears
> in two groups. In case other folks in either group don't notice that,
> it may be appropriate to include it explicitly in the message body as
> well, where it will not have an effect but will get noticed.
Alas, so far I can't figure out any way even to see "follow up to" in
the headers, much less change it. When I select "show full headers,"
what I see doesn't have a "follow up to" line, and the Unison Hep
function doesn't include anything about follow up to choices.
Since I have only recently developed this tic, it may be that I shold
try using a newsfeed other than Solani, and seeing if it's
Solani-specific, or Unison-specific.
> Maybe it's also related to fragmentation of this mighty thread as seen
> in Google Groups, as lots of short threads.
I don't think so. I just got the same message when I tried to respond
to your message, and it wouldn't do it because you added afu in, making
it a crosspost without, apparently, a follow up to.
Szymon Sokół
> On 2009-12-20 12:21:41 -0800, Szymon Sokół
> <szy...@bastard.operator.from.hell.pl> said:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:36:01 -0800, Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>
>>> Any advice on how to fix the problem, or a fuller understanding of why
>>> this is occurring, would be appreciated. If there's some way I can fix
>>> it without changing my newsreader or newsfeed, that'd be best -- but as
>>> it is, I don't even know why some messages have a "follow up to" and
>>> some apparently don't.
>>
>> Just a wild guess, but based on experience: Solani may be cutting
>> crossposted threads after a certain thread length has been reached, and they
>> check your References: header to see how may previous articles in the thread
>> you are referencing. If you can trim that header to only 1-2 last articles,
>> that may fool their checks. But if you can't set Followup-To: header, you
>> probably can't set the References: header either. Check Unison manual.
>
> Thanks.
>
> I'm a little lost on what hat would have to do with the "follow up to"
> header, if it's about the number of responses rather than what's in the
> follow up to header.
Number of responses *in a crossposted thread*. If you set Followup-To: to a
single group, this means you are thus ending the crossposting (requiring
responses to your article to go to that group only), so in that case the
number of responses is not checked. Or so I think. I have seen this setup
many times, but I can't guarantee Solani does exactly that.
Kurt Busiek
<szy...@bastard.operator.from.hell.pl> said:
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:44:00 -0800, Kurt Busiek wrote:
>
>> On 2009-12-20 12:21:41 -0800, Szymon Sokół
>> <szy...@bastard.operator.from.hell.pl> said:
>>
>>> Just a wild guess, but based on experience: Solani may be cutting
>>> crossposted threads after a certain thread length has been reached, and they
>>> check your References: header to see how may previous articles in the thread
>>> you are referencing. If you can trim that header to only 1-2 last articles,
>>> that may fool their checks. But if you can't set Followup-To: header, you
>>> probably can't set the References: header either. Check Unison manual.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> I'm a little lost on what hat would have to do with the "follow up to"
>> header, if it's about the number of responses rather than what's in the
>> follow up to header.
>
> Number of responses *in a crossposted thread*. If you set Followup-To: to a
> single group, this means you are thus ending the crossposting (requiring
> responses to your article to go to that group only), so in that case the
> number of responses is not checked. Or so I think. I have seen this setup
> many times, but I can't guarantee Solani does exactly that.
In this case, though, the message got flagged even when only one
message in this very thread had been crossposted, and I was trying to
respond to it.
Keith F. Lynch
> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>> I'm using Unison, and my newsfeed is Solani.
>> I've been posting in the "Starving people" thread, which is
>> crossposted to two groups, and most of the messages go through just
>> fine. Some of them -- an increasing number of them, lately -- have
>> been getting this error message:
>> "The server said: 'Crossposts without follow up to are not allowed'"
>> I assume (but am not sure) that this is Solani's error message, not
>> Unison's.
> It does sound as though your own Unison software is describing an
> error message from the Solani server. I don't know whether that in
> turn is a per-newsgroup policy, or Solani's own. To me it appears
> to be describing a law that you can only post into multiple groups
> if you specify a follow-up line that - for there to be a point to
> this - directs responses into only one of the groups, to reduce
> redundant traffic.
Will it let you give both, i.e.
Followup-to: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.folklore.urban
?
> Maybe some of your posts are already thus filtered.
I didn't see his post in either newsgroup.
I'm continuing to crosspost in that thread since some people are
reading this thread in one newsgroup, some in the other.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Spiros Bousbouras
Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
> I'm using Unison, and my newsfeed is Solani.
>
> I've been posting in the "Starving people" thread, which is crossposted
> to two groups, and most of the messages go through just fine. Some of
> them -- an increasing number of them, lately -- have been getting this
> error message:
>
> "The server said: 'Crossposts without follow up to are not allowed'"
>
> I assume (but am not sure) that this is Solani's error message, not Unison's.
Since the message says "The server said" that seems a safe conclusion.
> I'm also assuming that it's partly a function of the messages I'm
> responding to, because some of them go through fine, and some of them
> don't, so this "without follow up to" business seems to be peculiar to
> some messages but not a general thing.
>
> I can't figure out how I can fix -- or even check on -- the "follow up
> to" status. So in those cases I'm replying only to rasfw, even though
> the person I'm responding to may be in afu, because I'm not reading
> this stuff in afu.
>
> Any advice on how to fix the problem, or a fuller understanding of why
> this is occurring, would be appreciated.
The obvious thing to do is to bring the issue to the attention of
Solani and see what they tell you.
Spiros Bousbouras
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> Your own interest will be met, I suppose, by either altering articles
> to post into rasfw only, or adding the required header entry which I
> think goes like "Followup-to: rec.arts.sf.written" or else is a
> specific option in your software, whilst your article itself appears
> in two groups. In case other folks in either group don't notice that,
> it may be appropriate to include it explicitly in the message body as
> well, where it will not have an effect but will get noticed.
Yes , "Followup-To" in the header and crossposts should be noted.
> Maybe it's also related to fragmentation of this mighty thread as seen
> in Google Groups, as lots of short threads.
No , this is a Googlegroups bug , see
http://groups.google.com/support/bin/static.py?page=known_issues.cs
> Incidentally, in Google
> Groups viewed in the Opera browser, which is how I'm sending this, I
> see a form option to "Add followup-to header" (to my message), but it
> does not do anything.
I used to post from Googlegroups using Firefox and "Add followup-to
header" worked correctly.
Spiros Bousbouras
Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>
> Alas, so far I can't figure out any way even to see "follow up to" in
> the headers, much less change it. When I select "show full headers,"
> what I see doesn't have a "follow up to" line,
In general posts don't have a "Followup-To:" line ; it only exists if
the poster explicitly wants to get those who respond to him to post to
a different list of newsgroups than the poster her(him)self did.
> and the Unison Hep
> function doesn't include anything about follow up to choices.
I assume Unison came with documentation. It has to say somewhere how
you can add a "Followup-To:" line. But I don't think adding a
Followup-To: is a good solution unless Followup-To: contains the same
list of newsgroups as Newsgroups: .It's not a good solution because it
forces those who respond to you and want to preserve the crossposting
to manually restore the original list of newsgroups. In other words you
solve your problem by creating more work for other people.
Kurt Busiek
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:04:26 -0800
> Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>>
>> Alas, so far I can't figure out any way even to see "follow up to" in
>> the headers, much less change it. When I select "show full headers,"
>> what I see doesn't have a "follow up to" line,
>
> In general posts don't have a "Followup-To:" line ; it only exists if
> the poster explicitly wants to get those who respond to him to post to
> a different list of newsgroups than the poster her(him)self did.
>
>> and the Unison Hep
>> function doesn't include anything about follow up to choices.
>
> I assume Unison came with documentation.
It's a download; if there's more to it than the Help file, I'm unaware of it.
> It has to say somewhere how
> you can add a "Followup-To:" line. But I don't think adding a
> Followup-To: is a good solution unless Followup-To: contains the same
> list of newsgroups as Newsgroups: .It's not a good solution because it
> forces those who respond to you and want to preserve the crossposting
> to manually restore the original list of newsgroups. In other words you
> solve your problem by creating more work for other people.
I can see that; I was hoping to find out what was triggering it, in the
hopes that I can do something about that.
I'll either e-mail Solani, try a different newsfeed, or just live with it.
Either Unison or Solani has also suddenly taken to warning me when
there is, in their opinion, too much quoted text in a message, and I
appreciate that feature.
Don Freeman
>
> I'm continuing to crosspost in that thread since some people are
> reading this thread in one newsgroup, some in the other.
And of course we are all appreciative of being able to read, and not
having to worry about missing, your essential, erudite posts.
--
-Don