Married SF
Konrad Gaertner
that it's intended to be a trilogy) the two primary POV characters get
married (which wasn't at all surprising) at the beginning of the
second book (which was). And as I watch them going along being
happily married (despite only getting one night of privacy so far), it
occurs to me how rare it is [in SF] to see a married protagonist.
Many protagonists don't marry, and the rest only get married at the
very end of the story arc (or even later), and future books in the
series shift the focus to someone[s] else, with the married couple
being at most supporting characters (assuming the author didn't
just kill them off between books to keep them out of the way).
Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
"happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
--KG
P. Taine
Pyanfar & Khym
P. Taine
--
What's your name?
Puddin' n Taine, ask me again and I'll tell you the same
Luna
Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
All of Heinlein's characters are all married to each other, right? ;o)
--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick
I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.
Daniel Silevitch
Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
>"happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
>like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
>see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
>first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
A few off the top of my head:
Kimball and Clarissa Kinnison. I think that the two main (human)
characters in Startide Rising (Jill and Tom(?)) were married, but I'm not
entirely sure. Going back to Discworld, Magrat got married to the King of
Lancre. Sergeant Colon is married, but I don't think he counts as a
protagonist. Several of David Eddings' books had main characters get
married, usually to other main characters. The hero of Peter Hamilton's
Night's Dawn trilogy gets married eventually (somewhere around page 3600,
IIRC...). Heinlein's Friday was married, sort of. Mannie in The Moon is a
Harsh Mistress was married, and his family played a big role in shaping
him. From Asimov, Preem Palver (sp?) of the Second Foundation travelled
around with his wife.
-dms
Jim Battista
news:41005AB0...@worldnet.att.net:
> Any good examples of married protagonists?
I'd count Duke Leto and Lady Jessica from _Dune_, even if they
weren't legally married.
Also, we get to see Paul and Chani be de-facto married before he runs
off into the desert.
Cordelia and Aral Vorkosigan.
Valentine and [NordicGuy] and lots of people on BrazilWorld in
_Speaker for the Dead_, etc. Does Ender marry Whatsername in
_Xenocide_ or the last one?
Robin and S. Ya. Broadhead in the various _Gateway_ books.
Jon Wilde and Annette in different bits of the Fall Revolution books.
Diziet Sma and Skaffen-Amtiskaw?
--
Jim Battista
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
Brandon
Konrad Gaertner wrote:
>
> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
> "happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
> like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
>
>
> --KG
"The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag", by RAH
Brett Mount
rec.arts.sf.written tonight:
}The Stainless Steel Rat got married in one of the books. I forget the brides
}name.
That would, of course, be the lovely and dangerous Angelina.
--
Regards
Brett.
"Never Stop Rocking"
David Eppstein
Brett Mount <nos_p_a_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The sirens are screaming and Karl Johanson is howling way down in
> rec.arts.sf.written tonight:
>
> }The Stainless Steel Rat got married in one of the books. I forget the brides
> }name.
>
> That would, of course, be the lovely and dangerous Angelina.
I was assuming that the part Karl forgot about the bride's name was
whether it was Angelina, or Engela, or Angelica, or...
--
David Eppstein
Computer Science Dept., Univ. of California, Irvine
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Ross TenEyck
>Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
>"happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
>like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
>see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
>first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
The protagonist, whose name escapes me, in Hambly's _Those Who
Hunt the Night._
Refreshingly, when he's caught in a situation where vampires
are threatening both himself and his wife, the first thing
he does is tell her everything about the situation and enlist
her help in dealing with it.
--
================== http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~teneyck ==================
Ross TenEyck Seattle, WA \ Light, kindled in the furnace of hydrogen;
ten...@alumni.caltech.edu \ like smoke, sunlight carries the hot-metal
Are wa yume? Soretomo maboroshi? \ tang of Creation's forge.
David Dyer-Bennet
> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
> "happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
> like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
Manny, in Heinlein's _The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress_.
Kimball Kinnison, in Doc Smith's _Children of the Lens_.
Dick Seaton, in Doc Smith's _The Skylark of Space_ (and the rest of
the series).
Miles Vorkosigan, in Lois Bujold's _Diplomatic Immunity_.
Lazarus Long, in Heinlein's _Time Enough For Love_. (Several times).
Khaavren, in Steven Brust's _The Viscount of Adrilankha_.
LOTS more if you accept people a step further away from being the
primary focus of the book. Roger Stone in Heinlein's _The Rolling
Stones_, for example.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd...@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
Karl Johanson
"David Eppstein" <epps...@ics.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:eppstein-A2A8A2...@news.service.uci.edu...
> In article <MPG.1b6b3a59d...@news.individual.net>,
> Brett Mount <nos_p_a_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The sirens are screaming and Karl Johanson is howling way down in
> > rec.arts.sf.written tonight:
> >
> > }The Stainless Steel Rat got married in one of the books. I forget the
brides
> > }name.
> >
> > That would, of course, be the lovely and dangerous Angelina.
>
> I was assuming that the part Karl forgot about the bride's name was
> whether it was Angelina, or Engela, or Angelica, or...
:) No, It's been a couple decades sinse I read it. Almost as hard to keep
track of Paul / Paul Atradies/ The young Duke / the Kwsatz Haderach / Muadib
/ Usul / the Preacher.
Karl Johanson
Michael Grosberg
Sparhawk and Elahna (sp) in david eddings' Tamuly. (Sequel to Elenium,
but they're not married there yet)
Ned and Natome in Bester's _The Computer Connection_.
Recently read Greg Bear's _Slant_: Jonathan and chloe.
Casseia, the protagonist in his _Moving Mars_, is also married, for a
while.
Htn963
<snip>
> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
> "happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
> like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
Wilma and Buck Rogers.
Delenn and Sheridan.
--
Ht
Louann Miller
(Ross TenEyck) wrote:
>The protagonist, whose name escapes me, in Hambly's _Those Who
>Hunt the Night._
>
>Refreshingly, when he's caught in a situation where vampires
>are threatening both himself and his wife, the first thing
>he does is tell her everything about the situation and enlist
>her help in dealing with it.
Okay, now I really _do_ have to get around to reading that.
Louann Miller
>> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
>> "happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
>> like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
>> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
>> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:03:32 -0500, Brandon <jch...@avalon.net>
wrote:
>"The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag", by RAH
I can't resist quoting Bujold on marriage here, from "A Civil
Campaign"---
"Yes, of course I'll offer, if she wants," Mark said. "I just didn't
think she wanted to, yet. Did you?"
"No," said Kareen firmly. "Not . . . not yet, anyway. It's like I've
just started to find myself, to figure out who I really am, to grow. I
don't want to stop."
Tante Cordelia's brows rose. "Is that how you see marriage? As the end
and abolition of yourself?"
Kareen realized belatedly that her remark might be construed as a slur
on certain parties here present. "It is for some people. Why else do
all the stories end when the Count's daughter gets married? Hasn't
that ever struck you as a bit sinister? I mean, have you ever read a
folk tale where the Princess's mother gets to do anything but die
young? I've never been able to figure out if that's supposed to be a
warning, or an instruction."
Tante Cordelia pressed her finger to her lips to hide a smile, but
Mama looked rather worried.
"You grow in different ways, afterward," Mama said tentatively. "Not
like a fairy tale. Happily ever after doesn't cover it."
Da's brows drew down; he said, in an odd, suddenly uncertain voice, "I
thought we were doing all right . . ."
Mama patted his hand reassuringly. "Of course, love."
---
I think a lot of that is that most fiction is about conflict, not
about stability. So "man seeks and wins the woman he loves" or vice
versa is a nice easy story arc with a beginning, a conflict in the
middle, and a triumph at the end. Likewise "man estranged from woman
he loves gets back with her" or variants.
"Then they got up the next morning and lived their lives," on the
other hand, is a harder story to write. Generally less marketable, I
suspect, and not just in SF. It's hard to work exploding spaceships
into that, or car crashes, or medieval sieges.
Louann
Dreamer
> that it's intended to be a trilogy) the two primary POV characters get
> married (which wasn't at all surprising) at the beginning of the
> second book (which was). And as I watch them going along being
> happily married (despite only getting one night of privacy so far), it
> occurs to me how rare it is [in SF] to see a married protagonist.
>
> Many protagonists don't marry, and the rest only get married at the
> very end of the story arc (or even later), and future books in the
> series shift the focus to someone[s] else, with the married couple
> being at most supporting characters (assuming the author didn't
> just kill them off between books to keep them out of the way).
>
> Any good examples of married protagonists?
Garion and Ce'Nedra get married at the end of the story arc for the first
Big Blue Ball O'Power series by Eddings, they remain so for the next five
books. There's even *gasp* a scene where they have sex! (Well, sorta.)
Star and Oscar are married for much of _Glory Road,_ although it's hardly
conventional. Maureen and Brian are married for much of _To Sail Beyond the
Sunset._ And marriages begin the story in both _The Number of the Beast_ and
_The Cat Who Walks Through Walls._ Lots of Heinlein characters get married,
for various values of "married." Manny is married when first we meet him,
for instance, although he surely doesn't act like a "married man," which is
part of the point.
Holly Lisle's _Minerva Wakes_ features a pair of married protagonists - in
fact, the fact that they're married is indirectly what *makes* them the
protagonists. (It has to do with their wedding bands.)
So, while I think of it, it's not exactly common, but it's less uncommon
than you might think. It helps that SF authors are freer than most to create
"marriages" that don't interfere with their story development.
D
lclough
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Recent short fiction: PARADOX, Autumn 2003
http://home.nyc.rr.com/paradoxmag//index.html
Upcoming short fiction in FIRST HEROES (TOR, May '04)
http://members.aol.com/wenamun/firstheroes.html
David Allsopp
<batt...@unt.edu> writes
>Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
>news:41005AB0...@worldnet.att.net:
>
>> Any good examples of married protagonists?
>
Ouch -- I'd like to hear you explain *that* to the pair mentioned. From
a safe distance, of course. Some sort of radio link, possibly.
Hmmm...more examples...
Dorian Hawkmoon marries Yisselda at the end of the first Hawkmoon series
(Moorcock), and they remain married in the second series. Come to think
of it, this is quite common in Moorcock: Erekose marries Ermizhad, and
IIRC Corum marries as well.
The main protagonists of Tanya Huff's "Summon The Keeper" get together
at the end of the first book; they remain together, if not actually
married, for two more books at least.
Christopher Stasheff's various "Warlock" books after the first have Rod
Gallowglass happily married to Gwen.
--
David Allsopp Houston, Tranquillity Base here.
Remove SPAM to email me The Eagle has landed.
artyw
>
> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
> "happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
> like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
Conjure Wife. Happy marriage until he discovers she's a witch.
My Stepmother is an Alien?
Some of James Blaylocks stuff such as The Last Coin and All the Bells of Earth.
r.r...@thevine.net
Grosberg) wrote:
>Sparhawk and Elahna (sp) in david eddings' Tamuly. (Sequel to Elenium,
>but they're not married there yet)
>
>Ned and Natome in Bester's _The Computer Connection_.
>
>Recently read Greg Bear's _Slant_: Jonathan and chloe.
>Casseia, the protagonist in his _Moving Mars_, is also married, for a
>while.
Hawk and Fisher in Green's series. They are definitely married, not
just living together, which is apparently a bit odd for their time and
station.
And, depending on how you define "married", I'd argue for Morgaine and
Vanye.
Rebecca
James Nicoll
>Hawk and Fisher in Green's series. They are definitely married, not
>just living together, which is apparently a bit odd for their time and
>station.
Hmmm. I just read a forthcoming SW novel where the main couple
have the problem that they come from incompatable social backgrounds,
and so marriage is totally unthinkable. The guy has a hard time in the
previous book dealing with being attracted to the woman at all. The
solution
after they talk to the guy's uncle, who likewise married outside
his group and who was ostracized as a result, is to reveal that things have
gotten much better since the uncle's time. Now, all the guy has to do is
marry some woman of the right class, and he can keep the woman as a live-in
mistress, posing as a servant, since women of her class are generally
employed as labourers.
--
Take the piston rings out of my stomach, And the cylinders out of my brain
Extract from my liver the crankshaft, And assemble the engine again!
[from 'The Dying Aviator']
Michael S. Schiffer
news:1222g05nj6fdfu8hc...@4ax.com:
>...
> I can't resist quoting Bujold on marriage here, from "A Civil
> Campaign"---
> "Yes, of course I'll offer, if she wants," Mark said. "I just
> didn't think she wanted to, yet. Did you?"
> "No," said Kareen firmly. "Not . . . not yet, anyway. It's like
> I've just started to find myself, to figure out who I really am,
> to grow. I don't want to stop."
> Tante Cordelia's brows rose. "Is that how you see marriage? As
> the end and abolition of yourself?"
"Well, Tante Cordelia, within a year of your marriage you pretty
much vanished into the background, albeit with much talk on the
part of the on-stage characters that people were reading about
about how very important you were. And no sooner had Miles gotten
married and had his first kids than we were all shunted off in
favor of an entirely different story-- centered on a single man in
one case, and a widow in the other-- for who knows how long? So
Someone evidently doesn't think you married people are very
interesting. Considering that thus far all I've managed is reward
token in one book and supporting character in another, my only shot
at protagonist seems to be to keep Mark at arms length for a
while."
>...
> ---
> I think a lot of that is that most fiction is about conflict,
> not about stability. So "man seeks and wins the woman he loves"
> or vice versa is a nice easy story arc with a beginning, a
> conflict in the middle, and a triumph at the end. Likewise "man
> estranged from woman he loves gets back with her" or variants.
>
> "Then they got up the next morning and lived their lives," on
> the other hand, is a harder story to write. Generally less
> marketable, I suspect, and not just in SF. It's hard to work
> exploding spaceships into that, or car crashes, or medieval
> sieges.
On the other hand, getting married doesn't make one immune to being
caught in a spaceship explosion, car crash, or siege. (Would that
it did. :-) ) If anything, it can increase the character's stake
in the matter. But a working marriage removes the possibilities of
a romance plot, which a lot of authors clearly want to be able to
make use of. (Dysfunctional marriages don't, though the cliche of
the middle-aged character contemplating adultery is more associated
with mainstream fiction than SF. On the other hand, SF is full of
"divorce books" where the author is presumed to have projected
his/her own romantic disasters onto the theretofore successful
relationships of the characters.)
SF (and adventure stories in general) also tends towards younger
characters making a place in the world rather than established
characters dealing with crises. (Not a universal trend by any
means, but enough to help explain the tendency.) And it is easier
to explain the protagonist pulling up stakes and going off to Zeta
Reticulum if it's not necessary to figure out how the spouse is
going to be able to continue their zoology career and whether there
are decent Zoroastrian schools for the kids to attend.
But that's the thing-- it's easier. Clearly, married people are
subject to both choosing dangerous situations and having such
situations come upon them, but the character without ties requires
less effort to put into such situations. Adventure characters are
also more likely than average to have dead parents, estranged
families, and otherwise not to be terribly encumbered by the human
ties that might interfere with their involvement with the plot. I
tend to think highly of authors who recognize that most people *do*
have such ties and work them into the story, but there's a lot of
tradition behind the the more or less solo character.
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS
msch...@condor.depaul.edu
khavrinen
Ross TenEyck wrote:
>
> The protagonist, whose name escapes me, in Hambly's _Those Who
> Hunt the Night._
James Asher, FWIW. Also, there was a sequel : _Traveling With the
Dead_. Not quite as good as the first one, but worth reading once.
anxious triffid
news:ciMQ4KAo...@tqbase.demon.co.uk:
> In article <Xns952ED475B16C...@216.168.3.44>, Jim Battista
> <batt...@unt.edu> writes
>>Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
>>news:41005AB0...@worldnet.att.net:
>>
>>> Any good examples of married protagonists?
>>
> Hmmm...more examples...
>
> Dorian Hawkmoon marries Yisselda at the end of the first Hawkmoon series
> (Moorcock), and they remain married in the second series. Come to think
> of it, this is quite common in Moorcock: Erekose marries Ermizhad, and
> IIRC Corum marries as well.
>
Elric also marries once - to Zarozinia - and I have a vague notion that he
married someone else after her death.
Michael Stemper
>All of Heinlein's characters are all married to each other, right? ;o)
By jumping the shark^W sword, yes.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Reunite Gondwanaland!
Peter Meilinger
>Elric also marries once - to Zarozinia - and I have a vague notion that he
>married someone else after her death.
Conan married Zenobia, wasn't it? He thought enough of her to
chase her all the way across the world when she was kidnapped.
As an aside, just how dumb or desperate do you have to be to
steal Conan's woman? There had to be someone else suitable
who didn't come with the kind of baggage that'll cleave your
head in two before you accomplish your nefarious scheme.
Pete
Mike Dworetsky
"Konrad Gaertner" <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:41005AB0...@worldnet.att.net...
> In one of the series I'm currently reading (I think I saw the claim
> that it's intended to be a trilogy) the two primary POV characters get
> married (which wasn't at all surprising) at the beginning of the
> second book (which was). And as I watch them going along being
> happily married (despite only getting one night of privacy so far), it
> occurs to me how rare it is [in SF] to see a married protagonist.
>
> Many protagonists don't marry, and the rest only get married at the
> very end of the story arc (or even later), and future books in the
> series shift the focus to someone[s] else, with the married couple
> being at most supporting characters (assuming the author didn't
> just kill them off between books to keep them out of the way).
>
> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
> "happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
> like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
>
>
> --KG
Shevek and Takver in "The Dispossessed" by Ursula LeGuin. Though
technically there isn't an institution of marriage on their world, as I
recall.
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove "pants" spamblock to send e-mail)
Jim Battista
> In article <Xns952ED475B16C...@216.168.3.44>, Jim
> Battista <batt...@unt.edu> writes
>>Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
>>news:41005AB0...@worldnet.att.net:
>>
>>> Any good examples of married protagonists?
>>
>>Diziet Sma and Skaffen-Amtiskaw?
>
> Ouch -- I'd like to hear you explain *that* to the pair mentioned.
> From a safe distance, of course. Some sort of radio link,
> possibly.
They do snipe at each other like a stereotypical Old Married Couple.
Their dynamic is a lot like Ricky and Lucy, except that Sma is Ricky
and instead of burning a shirt or buying a sofa, Lucy-Amtiskaw
splatters people all over a wall or two. Skaffen, jou got some
'splainin' to do...
Another one:
Rachel Mansour and Martin Springfield are married, either de-facto or
legally, partway through _Singularity Sky_ and throughout _Iron
Sunrise_.
Konrad Gaertner
>
> SF (and adventure stories in general) also tends towards younger
> characters making a place in the world rather than established
> characters dealing with crises. (Not a universal trend by any
> means, but enough to help explain the tendency.) And it is easier
> to explain the protagonist pulling up stakes and going off to Zeta
> Reticulum if it's not necessary to figure out how the spouse is
> going to be able to continue their zoology career and whether there
> are decent Zoroastrian schools for the kids to attend.
[slight topic drift]
This reminds me: I still don't understand the ending of Asimov's
"Hostess".
--KG
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Khaavren, in Steven Brust's _The Viscount of Adrilankha_.
>
> LOTS more if you accept people a step further away from being the
> primary focus of the book.
Yes, but I specifically want to see *the* protagonist married. I'd
say Khaavren doesn't quite qualify. Ditto for Magrat.
And another clarification: it has to be an official, public marriage.
I don't require a ceremony or ritual (the example that prompted this
thread didn't have either), but just being faithful lovers isn't
enough.
--KG
Paul Ciszek
In article <Xns952ED475B16C...@216.168.3.44>,
Jim Battista <batt...@unt.edu> wrote:
>Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
>news:41005AB0...@worldnet.att.net:
>
>> Any good examples of married protagonists?
>
It looks like Bujold's characters only get to do one book after
getting married. So, that is almost but not quite the cliche
of getting married at the end of the story arc. Actually, the
endpoint for Bujold seems to be reproduction rather than marriage.
--
Please reply to: | "Faith doesn't make a good scientist, Mr.
pciszek at panix dot org | Klaatu-- Curiosity does!"
Autoreply is disabled | - Professor Barnhardt
Garrett Wollman
Donatien and Marie-Madeleine and Denis and Lucille (Remillard) in
May's /Intervention/ et sequelae. Aiken Drum and Mercedes Lamballe in
her /Saga of Pliocene Exile/, although not for very long, likewise
Claude Majewski and Angelique Guderian. Katlinel the Dark-Eyed and
Sugoll in the same series, with a rather better outcome.
Both main characters in Asimov's /The Robots of Dawn/ (although
Baley's wife is not a character in any of those books IIRC). Arkady
Darrell's parents in the Mule stories from the Foundation series.
(I'm having trouble thinking of any other SFnal Asimov that more than
mentions marriage.)
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | As the Constitution endures, persons in every
wol...@lcs.mit.edu | generation can invoke its principles in their own
Opinions not those of| search for greater freedom.
MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - A. Kennedy, Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. ___ (2003)
Robert Sneddon
<batt...@unt.edu> writes
>legally, partway through _Singularity Sky_ and throughout _Iron
>Sunrise_.
It's a May-December romance -- he's 60-plus and she's cradle-robbing.
What's the biggest age disparity in an SF romance/marriage? I'm
reminded of Polgara and Durnik in Eddings _Belgariad_, for example.
She's a couple of thousand years old while he's a normal human. There's
also Beldik and Vella in _The Malloreon_. What was the age difference
between Ming the Merciless and Dale, I wonder?
--
Email me via nojay (at) nojay (dot) fsnet (dot) co (dot) uk
This address no longer accepts HTML posts.
Robert Sneddon
Dorothy J Heydt
Robert Sneddon <no...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <Xns952F9A761533...@216.168.3.44>, Jim Battista
><batt...@unt.edu> writes
>>David Allsopp <d...@tqSPAMbase.demon.co.uk> wrote in
>>news:ciMQ4KAo...@tqbase.demon.co.uk:
>>
>>Rachel Mansour and Martin Springfield are married, either de-facto or
>>legally, partway through _Singularity Sky_ and throughout _Iron
>>Sunrise_.
>
> It's a May-December romance -- he's 60-plus and she's cradle-robbing.
>
> What's the biggest age disparity in an SF romance/marriage? I'm
>reminded of Polgara and Durnik in Eddings _Belgariad_, for example.
>She's a couple of thousand years old while he's a normal human. There's
>also Beldik and Vella in _The Malloreon_. What was the age difference
>between Ming the Merciless and Dale, I wonder?
Well, heck, how many thousands of years between Aragorn and
Arwen? We do see them as a married couple in a couple of scenes
late in _RotK_.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
aRJay
<kgae...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>>
>> Khaavren, in Steven Brust's _The Viscount of Adrilankha_.
>>
>> LOTS more if you accept people a step further away from being the
>> primary focus of the book.
>
>Yes, but I specifically want to see *the* protagonist married. I'd
>say Khaavren doesn't quite qualify. Ditto for Magrat.
>
I think it is arguable that Magrat could be considered a protagonist,
because like many Discworld books it can be considered as an ensemble
piece.
Jason Wood got married in Sea Wasp's book.
Colin MacIntyre gets married in the Mutineers Moon trilogy by David
Weber.
Several of McCaffrey, Doc Smith's and Eddings Protagonists marry.
Someone mentioned Conan, I think he doesn't count because the wedding
happens between books.
H Beam Piper's _Space Viking_ opens with the protagonists wedding, again
this doesn't count as gunfire occurs before the couple can leave the
ceremony.
--
aRJay
"In this great and creatorless universe, where so much beautiful has
come to be out of the chance interactions of the basic properties of
matter, it seems so important that we love one another."
- Lucy Kemnitzer
Michael S. Schiffer
news:cdrsh8$8ld$1...@grapevine.lcs.mit.edu:
> In article <41005AB0...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Any good examples of married protagonists?
> Donatien and Marie-Madeleine and Denis and Lucille (Remillard)
> in May's /Intervention/ et sequelae. Aiken Drum and Mercedes
> Lamballe in her /Saga of Pliocene Exile/, although not for very
> long, likewise Claude Majewski and Angelique Guderian. Katlinel
> the Dark-Eyed and Sugoll in the same series, with a rather
> better outcome.
> Both main characters in Asimov's /The Robots of Dawn/ (although
> Baley's wife is not a character in any of those books IIRC).
She's a significant character in _The Caves of Steel_-- her
identification with her namesake Jezebel results in her getting
involved with Medievalist subversives, which in turn helps further
Lije's investigations.
> Arkady Darrell's parents in the Mule stories from the Foundation
> series.
I think you're thinking of her grandparents, who are the
protagonists of the first Mule story. I don't think we ever see
Arkady's mother.
(I'm having trouble thinking of any other SFnal Asimov
> that more than mentions marriage.)
Well, there's "I'm in Marsport Without Hilda". :-)
Konrad Gaertner
>
> I think it is arguable that Magrat could be considered a protagonist,
> because like many Discworld books it can be considered as an ensemble
> piece.
Yes, she's a main character, but she doesn't get all that much
attention in that book. Now if she'd gotten married at the
*beginning* of _Lord and Ladies_ I'd count her.
--KG
John VanSickle
> In one of the series I'm currently reading (I think I saw the claim
> that it's intended to be a trilogy) the two primary POV characters get
> married (which wasn't at all surprising) at the beginning of the
> second book (which was). And as I watch them going along being
> happily married (despite only getting one night of privacy so far), it
> occurs to me how rare it is [in SF] to see a married protagonist.
>
> Many protagonists don't marry, and the rest only get married at the
> very end of the story arc (or even later), and future books in the
> series shift the focus to someone[s] else, with the married couple
> being at most supporting characters (assuming the author didn't
> just kill them off between books to keep them out of the way).
>
> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
> "happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
> like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
Milo Morai and Mara Morai in the Horseclans series (married in the
first book, remained married in all action set after that point,
although both had affairs).
In the Well World Series, the two that became twin centaurs in
_Shadows of the Well of Souls_ .
Regards,
John
Ross TenEyck
Not quite three, if memory serves. Twenty-seven-hundred-ish,
something like that.
There's also Lazarus Long and Several Others -- Laz & Lor, for
instance, were two thousand and an odd century or two younger than
he was at the time he married them.
My memory of the Well World books is hazy, but I think that <rot13>
Anguna Oenmvy vf nf byq nf ng yrnfg bar vgrengvba bs gur havirefr,
cbffvoyl zber, naq ubbxf hc jvgu n abezny crefba. (Jryy, "abezny"
zrnavat gung fur'q rkcrevraprq zhygvcyr enqvpny punatrf bs obql
funcr nybat gur jnl.)</rot13>
--
================== http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~teneyck ==================
Ross TenEyck Seattle, WA \ Light, kindled in the furnace of hydrogen;
ten...@alumni.caltech.edu \ like smoke, sunlight carries the hot-metal
Are wa yume? Soretomo maboroshi? \ tang of Creation's forge.
Brandon
Louann Miller wrote:
>
> "Then they got up the next morning and lived their lives," on the
> other hand, is a harder story to write. Generally less marketable, I
> suspect, and not just in SF. It's hard to work exploding spaceships
> into that, or car crashes, or medieval sieges.
>
> Louann
The detective genre, which I am also a fan of, seems to
manage. The Thin Man movies, McMillan and Wife, Hart to
Hart -- and in print there are the Peter Wimsey books, after
he marries Harriet, and the Spenser novels in which there is
no marriage, but a long, stable relationship (which has some
very realistic ups and downs).
Brandon
Konrad Gaertner wrote:
>
> And another clarification: it has to be an official, public marriage.
> I don't require a ceremony or ritual (the example that prompted this
> thread didn't have either), but just being faithful lovers isn't
> enough.
>
Why not?
Brett Mount
rec.arts.sf.written tonight:
}Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<41005AB0...@worldnet.att.net>...
}>
}> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
}> "happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
}> like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
}> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
}> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
}
}
}Conjure Wife. Happy marriage until he discovers she's a witch.
And a reasonably happy one after, IIRC, save for a few difficulties which
are to be expected.
--
Regards
Brett.
"Never Stop Rocking"
Daphne Brinkerhoff
news:cds77v$e6g$1...@narsil.avalon.net...
I believe there's only one novel after Peter marries Harriet. It still
qualifies, but only just (since the novel is about their honeymoon).
ObSF: _The Other Wind_ has a nice solid marriage.
--
Daphne
John G. Morrison
news:cdr9ro$iv2$1...@panix1.panix.com:
> In article <41012331...@news.thevine.net>, <r.r...@thevine.net>
> wrote:
>>Hawk and Fisher in Green's series. They are definitely married, not
>>just living together, which is apparently a bit odd for their time and
>>station.
>
> Hmmm. I just read a forthcoming SW novel where the main couple
> have the problem that they come from incompatable social backgrounds,
> and so marriage is totally unthinkable. The guy has a hard time in the
> previous book dealing with being attracted to the woman at all. The
> solution
>
>
>
>
> after they talk to the guy's uncle, who likewise married outside
> his group and who was ostracized as a result, is to reveal that things
> have gotten much better since the uncle's time. Now, all the guy has
> to do is marry some woman of the right class, and he can keep the
> woman as a live-in mistress, posing as a servant, since women of her
> class are generally employed as labourers.
I still say that one of the best 'married' sf-fantasy books I ever wrote
was one by Sean Russell? Basically, it took your basic commoner saving
the kingdom, getting to marry the princess in the first chapters, then
spent the rest of the book on how the pair handled their new
circumstances.
John G. Morrison
news:Xns952F742F7948...@130.133.1.4:
Let's see, for the most part, reading about changing diapes and raising
the little one is not the topic of much interest for the majority of the
people. Neither is reading about how Aral essentially keeps the empire
on a even keel and turns it over to Gregor when he comes of age. Sure
there might be some interesting short stories but nothing that would
make me happy. Hell, I don't want to read even about Miles as daddy and
with the travails that fatherhood will bring forth, although I wouldn't
mind a few paragraphs about how his kids help him figure out the big
clue or just makes him more determined to smash the bad guy, etc..
Daphne Brinkerhoff
"John G. Morrison" <Laby...@eskim-remove-o.com> wrote in message
news:Xns952FAF1EABDCC...@204.122.19.7...
> I still say that one of the best 'married' sf-fantasy books I ever wrote
> was one by Sean Russell? Basically, it took your basic commoner saving
> the kingdom, getting to marry the princess in the first chapters, then
> spent the rest of the book on how the pair handled their new
> circumstances.
I think you mean _Nobody's Son_ by Sean Stewart.
If you don't, it also fits. ;)
--
Daphne
John G. Morrison
news:nu7uV9Gq...@escore.demon.co.uk:
> In article <41017566...@worldnet.att.net>, Konrad Gaertner
> <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>>David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>>>
>>> Khaavren, in Steven Brust's _The Viscount of Adrilankha_.
>>>
>>> LOTS more if you accept people a step further away from being the
>>> primary focus of the book.
>>
>>Yes, but I specifically want to see *the* protagonist married. I'd
>>say Khaavren doesn't quite qualify. Ditto for Magrat.
>>
>
> I think it is arguable that Magrat could be considered a protagonist,
> because like many Discworld books it can be considered as an ensemble
> piece.
>
> Jason Wood got married in Sea Wasp's book.
>
> Colin MacIntyre gets married in the Mutineers Moon trilogy by David
> Weber.
>
> Several of McCaffrey, Doc Smith's and Eddings Protagonists marry.
>
Pretty much all of Doc Smith's people got married. I can't think of
even a single book, not even the D'Alembert series in which marriages
were not part and parcel of the books or at least serious engagements.
Of course that comes from the simple fact that he wrote in a time where
there was no way that you could have a healthy single man and a single
healthy female all alone in the world, without them having some idea of
procreating and to do that, in his mind required marriage.
Even most of those who can marry in McCaffrey's books somehow end up, if
not 'married,' that culture's equivalent thereof. It might take a book
or two and might simply be mentioned in another but it happens to just
about every main character. About the only one who didn't marry is the
MasterHarper and there is a good inkling that he and the Harper Hall
headwoman had a heck of an understanding.
Konrad Gaertner
Because I want to see a couple that explicitly and publicly commits
to each other.
--KG
r.r...@thevine.net
wrote:
Lee and Miller's Liaden books involve lots of married couples. Shan
and Priscilia, Val Con and Miri, Pat Rin and the Assassin... Of
course, on Liad marriages are generally short-lived, since you
contract them for a set time. The Korval clan seems to be most
unusual in doing life-long marriages instead.
Rebecca
r.r...@thevine.net
What about societies in which there is no marriage except by being
faithful lovers? Future societies where marriage is obsolete, and the
closest thing is sticking to one lover for several years instead of
changing out every week, or the primitive ones where moving into
someone's house and taking care of the resulting offspring is all
that's required to be "married"?
Rebecca
John A Fairhurst
wrote:
>Cordelia and Aral Vorkosigan.
I'd say that Cordelia and Aral fall foul of the 'fade into the
background' effect, though not as bas as some.
Miles and Ekaterin would be a another strong married couple in SF on
the basis of _Diplomatic Immunity_. Unfortunately, DI is likely to be
last book in the Vorkosiganiverse for a while....
--
John Fairhurst
In Association with Amazon worldwide:
http://www.johnsbooks.co.uk/Books/Bujold
The Vorkosiganiverse!
John A Fairhurst
<Laby...@eskim-remove-o.com> wrote:
>Pretty much all of Doc Smith's people got married. I can't think of
>even a single book, not even the D'Alembert series in which marriages
>were not part and parcel of the books or at least serious engagements.
>Of course that comes from the simple fact that he wrote in a time where
>there was no way that you could have a healthy single man and a single
>healthy female all alone in the world, without them having some idea of
>procreating and to do that, in his mind required marriage
The more I read of Doc Smith's books, the more impressed I am about
his (OK, relatively) liberal attitudes - people may marry and have
kids but that doesn't condemn the lady of the house to a life spent
toiling over the kitchen sink; they can still go out and have
adventures (though, to be fair, Clarrissa had to wait 'tl the Children
were effectively grownup before she gets back in uniform, maybe...
--
John Fairhurst
In Association with Amazon worldwide:
http://www.johnsbooks.co.uk/Books/EESmith/
The Lensmen!
Richard Todd
> There's also Lazarus Long and Several Others -- Laz & Lor, for
> instance, were two thousand and an odd century or two younger than
> he was at the time he married them.
Yeah. The example I was gonna mention was Lazarus Long and whats-her-name,
Dora, on that frontier planet; the book doesn't explicitly say how old Lazarus
was when he married her, but I'm guessing at least 1000 yrs old.
> My memory of the Well World books is hazy, but I think that <rot13>
> Anguna Oenmvy vf nf byq nf ng yrnfg bar vgrengvba bs gur havirefr,
> cbffvoyl zber, naq ubbxf hc jvgu n abezny crefba. (Jryy, "abezny"
> zrnavat gung fur'q rkcrevraprq zhygvcyr enqvpny punatrf bs obql
> funcr nybat gur jnl.)</rot13>
Your memory of the Well World books is serving you correctly here, and yeah, he
beats out just about all the other likely candidates in this contest.
Other possible examples: from the Perry Rhodan series, pretty much any
of the various romances that Atlan has been in over the years; at the
time of his first appearance in his series he's a little over 10,000 years
old, and none of his partners were other Immortals. (Well, except for
Mirona Thetin, who surprised Atlan by revealing that she was over 20,000 years
old. Amongst other things.)
Chuck Bridgeland
> In one of the series I'm currently reading (I think I saw the claim
> that it's intended to be a trilogy) the two primary POV characters get
> married (which wasn't at all surprising) at the beginning of the
> second book (which was). And as I watch them going along being
> happily married (despite only getting one night of privacy so far), it
> occurs to me how rare it is [in SF] to see a married protagonist.
>
> Many protagonists don't marry, and the rest only get married at the
> very end of the story arc (or even later), and future books in the
> series shift the focus to someone[s] else, with the married couple
> being at most supporting characters (assuming the author didn't
> just kill them off between books to keep them out of the way).
>
> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
> "happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
> like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
Boths sets of Mr. & Mrs. Edward William Bear.
Ish & Em.
--
"Using Windows is a sin." --J. Boone
Chuck Bridgeland, chuckbri at computerdyn dot com
http://www.essex1.com/people/chuckbri
anxious triffid
news:cdrhmc$qpq$1...@news3.bu.edu:
> anxious triffid <anxious...@infearofspamfserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Elric also marries once - to Zarozinia - and I have a vague notion
>>that he married someone else after her death.
>
> Conan married Zenobia, wasn't it? He thought enough of her to
> chase her all the way across the world when she was kidnapped.
> As an aside, just how dumb or desperate do you have to be to
> steal Conan's woman? There had to be someone else suitable
> who didn't come with the kind of baggage that'll cleave your
> head in two before you accomplish your nefarious scheme.
>
Did John Carter (to whom the same questions would apply) actually get
married on Barsoom?
James Nicoll
--
Take the piston rings out of my stomach, And the cylinders out of my brain
Extract from my liver the crankshaft, And assemble the engine again!
[from 'The Dying Aviator']
Peter Meilinger
>In article <Xns9530785B7783Ban...@217.32.252.50>,
>anxious triffid <anxious...@INFEAROFSPAMfserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>Did John Carter (to whom the same questions would apply) actually get
>>married on Barsoom?
> And produced kids.
There's also Tarzan, and I can't believe I didn't think of him
before now.
Pete
James Nicoll
to wonder if the answer to 'How did John Carter father kids on a woman
of an unrelated species' is 'He didn't. Someone else did.'
Peter Meilinger
>In article <cdu0ui$k2r$4...@news3.bu.edu>,
>Peter Meilinger <mell...@bu.edu> wrote:
>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>In article <Xns9530785B7783Ban...@217.32.252.50>,
>>>anxious triffid <anxious...@INFEAROFSPAMfserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>Did John Carter (to whom the same questions would apply) actually get
>>>>married on Barsoom?
>>> And produced kids.
>>There's also Tarzan, and I can't believe I didn't think of him
>>before now.
> What I can't believe is that it only occured to me just now
>to wonder if the answer to 'How did John Carter father kids on a woman
>of an unrelated species' is 'He didn't. Someone else did.'
Gah. You're shattering the icons of my youth, here!
Okay, not really.
But now you've got me wondering if that crush young Tarzan had
on an attractive female ape was in some way wrong or icky. I
understand Philip Jose Farmer explored that issue, though I've
never read that book, or story, or wherever it was published.
Pete
James Nicoll
Peter Meilinger <mell...@bu.edu> wrote:
>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>In article <cdu0ui$k2r$4...@news3.bu.edu>,
>>Peter Meilinger <mell...@bu.edu> wrote:
>>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>In article <Xns9530785B7783Ban...@217.32.252.50>,
>>>>anxious triffid <anxious...@INFEAROFSPAMfserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>>>Did John Carter (to whom the same questions would apply) actually get
>>>>>married on Barsoom?
>
>>>> And produced kids.
>
>>>There's also Tarzan, and I can't believe I didn't think of him
>>>before now.
>
>> What I can't believe is that it only occured to me just now
>>to wonder if the answer to 'How did John Carter father kids on a woman
>>of an unrelated species' is 'He didn't. Someone else did.'
>
>Gah. You're shattering the icons of my youth, here!
>
>Okay, not really.
although not the sort of thing JC would feel needed to be explained in
detail to the friend he related the story to. JC and DT want kids, JC
is effectively sterile on Mars, so they turn to Kantos Kan to lend a
hand, so to speak.
anxious triffid
I was also speculating about Tarzen, but wasn't sure if he fell into the sf
field or not. On reflection with talking apes, magic and lost cities of
Romans (IIRC) I guess he fairly clearly does.
anxious triffid
> Any good examples of married protagonists?
Slaps forehead and writes: the king and queen in Doris Lessing's "The
Marriage Between Three, Four and Five"
Ross TenEyck
>On 24 Jul 2004 00:24:57 GMT, "John G. Morrison"
><Laby...@eskim-remove-o.com> wrote:
>>Pretty much all of Doc Smith's people got married. I can't think of
>>even a single book, not even the D'Alembert series in which marriages
>>were not part and parcel of the books or at least serious engagements.
>>Of course that comes from the simple fact that he wrote in a time where
>>there was no way that you could have a healthy single man and a single
>>healthy female all alone in the world, without them having some idea of
>>procreating and to do that, in his mind required marriage
>The more I read of Doc Smith's books, the more impressed I am about
>his (OK, relatively) liberal attitudes - people may marry and have
>kids but that doesn't condemn the lady of the house to a life spent
>toiling over the kitchen sink; they can still go out and have
>adventures (though, to be fair, Clarrissa had to wait 'tl the Children
>were effectively grownup before she gets back in uniform, maybe...
There's a bit in one of the Skylark books, where Dorothy tells Dick
-- who is trying to pull the it's-too-dangerous-you-stay-here-with-
the-kid bit -- that she is not and can not be the proper traditional
mother, in that if it ever came down to a choice between her husband
and her child, she would choose her husband in an instant.
Which reminds me of something that struck me once about several of
Heinlein's later books, the ones where Lazarus or other characters
expound at some length on how the purpose of life is to raise children,
and they've carefully set up householding arrangements to optimize
child rearing, and so on.
The thing is, despite all of this, all those hordes of children that
the protagonists are dedicated to rearing almost never show up in
the story; and on the rare occasions when they do, they're pretty
much just props in the scene, rather than people.
It gave me the impression that Heinlein approved of children in the
abstract, but had trouble dealing with actual, real kids. But then
in the thread a while back about why the Heinleins never had children
of their own, or adopted, a couple of people mentioned that he was
active in the lives of his nieces and nephews; so perhaps he just
wasn't good at writing about kids.
Ross TenEyck
>In article <cdu0ui$k2r$4...@news3.bu.edu>,
>Peter Meilinger <mell...@bu.edu> wrote:
>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>In article <Xns9530785B7783Ban...@217.32.252.50>,
>>>anxious triffid <anxious...@INFEAROFSPAMfserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>Did John Carter (to whom the same questions would apply) actually get
>>>>married on Barsoom?
>>> And produced kids.
And -- see my other post about Heinlein and kids -- I noticed that
ERB wrote Mars such that there are no small children. IIRC, Martian
human (well, human-like) children hatch from the egg at an apparent
Earth-equivalent age of about twelve.
>>There's also Tarzan, and I can't believe I didn't think of him
>>before now.
> What I can't believe is that it only occured to me just now
>to wonder if the answer to 'How did John Carter father kids on a woman
>of an unrelated species' is 'He didn't. Someone else did.'
His son resembled him in many ways, from appearance to physical
abilities; so Carthoris presumably was John's son.
That doesn't mean that it may not have required Science (note the
capital S) to make the union fruitful; just discreetly offstage.
Oddly, I don't recall any mention of John's daughter (what was her
name? Tara?) having the half-earthly strength that his son did.
Myrnag2555
>to wonder if the answer to 'How did John Carter father kids on a woman
>of an unrelated species' is 'He didn't. Someone else did.'
Was it ever established that Carter was actually human?
Konrad Gaertner
The former is what I'm trying to exclude, the latter sounds like
it'd fit, and I'd guess that they would have a name for that which
could be reasonably translated as "marriage".
--KG
Sea Wasp
> Any good examples of married protagonists?
Lessee...
Kimball Kinnison and Clarissa MacDougall Kinnison
James Bolivar DiGriz and Angelina DiGriz
Elijah and Jezebel Baley
Roger and Edith Stone
If I may blow my own horn, Jason Wood and Sylvia Stake are married
well before the end of Digital Knight.
Sam Gamgee and Rosie Cotton
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Sea Wasp
> anxious triffid <anxious...@infearofspamfserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>Elric also marries once - to Zarozinia - and I have a vague notion that he
>>married someone else after her death.
>
>
> Conan married Zenobia, wasn't it? He thought enough of her to
> chase her all the way across the world when she was kidnapped.
> As an aside, just how dumb or desperate do you have to be to
> steal Conan's woman?
In this case, no choice. The sorcerer in question had discovered that
Conan himself was the focal point of the transformation of the world,
and that Conan himself would have to die. The sorcerer also had
studied Conan's history, and knew perfectly well that trying to kill
Conan IN Aquilonia would be just plain stupid no matter HOW powerful
you were. So he quite rationally had Conan's wife kidnapped and
brought to Khitai, where he could hopefully wipe out Conan directly in
the sorcerer's stronghold rather than on Conan's home ground.
Didn't work, of course, but in this case the sorcerer wasn't nearly
as dumb as one might have thought.
Sea Wasp
> ten...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Ross TenEyck) writes:
>
>
>>There's also Lazarus Long and Several Others -- Laz & Lor, for
>>instance, were two thousand and an odd century or two younger than
>>he was at the time he married them.
>
>
> Yeah. The example I was gonna mention was Lazarus Long and whats-her-name,
> Dora, on that frontier planet; the book doesn't explicitly say how old Lazarus
> was when he married her, but I'm guessing at least 1000 yrs old.
Well, mentioned as background in Digital Knight are the Eternal King
and Eternal Queen, who ruled Atlantaea for 100,000 years. She was a
LOT younger than him. As in, no one can say exactly how old the
Eternal King is, or was then. But he was certainly far older when he
married Niaadea than Niaadea was when she died. And he marries a
number of mortal women later throughout the eons. Never more than one
at a time, though; he's very much monogamous.
Meredith Dixon
>> Any good examples of married protagonists?
Rod and Gwen Gallowglass in the Warlock books.
--
Meredith Dixon <dix...@pobox.com>
Check out *Raven Days*: http://www.ravendays.org
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Ross TenEyck
>Konrad Gaertner wrote:
>> Any good examples of married protagonists?
> Lessee...
> Kimball Kinnison and Clarissa MacDougall Kinnison
> James Bolivar DiGriz and Angelina DiGriz
> Elijah and Jezebel Baley
> Roger and Edith Stone
> If I may blow my own horn, Jason Wood and Sylvia Stake are married
>well before the end of Digital Knight.
> Sam Gamgee and Rosie Cotton
Sam and Rose don't count by these rules, I think, because they
don't get married until the end of the story.
Kim and Chris are borderline; they get married very late in the
story, and are close to being supporting cast afterwards.
Roger and Edith Stone are not really the protagonists. (If we're
talking about _Space Family Stone,_ anyway; or am I thinking of
the wrong Stones?)
Slippery Jim and Angelina certainly count, as would Jason and
Sylvia.
John G. Morrison
news:2mdo80F...@uni-berlin.de:
>
> "John G. Morrison" <Laby...@eskim-remove-o.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns952FAF1EABDCC...@204.122.19.7...
>> I still say that one of the best 'married' sf-fantasy books I ever
>> wrote was one by Sean Russell? Basically, it took your basic
>> commoner saving the kingdom, getting to marry the princess in the
>> first chapters, then spent the rest of the book on how the pair
>> handled their new circumstances.
>
> I think you mean _Nobody's Son_ by Sean Stewart.
>
> If you don't, it also fits. ;)
>
Could be, I lost my copy in a washing machine flood and haven't ever
found a new copy, mainly because I forgot the name ofthe author. I'll
give it a look, thanks.
John G. Morrison
@panix1.panix.com:
> In article <Xns9530785B7783Ban...@217.32.252.50>,
> anxious triffid <anxious...@INFEAROFSPAMfserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>Peter Meilinger <mell...@bu.edu> wrote in
>>news:cdrhmc$qpq$1...@news3.bu.edu:
>>
>>> anxious triffid <anxious...@infearofspamfserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Elric also marries once - to Zarozinia - and I have a vague notion
>>>>that he married someone else after her death.
>>>
>>> Conan married Zenobia, wasn't it? He thought enough of her to
>>> chase her all the way across the world when she was kidnapped.
>>> As an aside, just how dumb or desperate do you have to be to
>>> steal Conan's woman? There had to be someone else suitable
>>> who didn't come with the kind of baggage that'll cleave your
>>> head in two before you accomplish your nefarious scheme.
>>>
>>Did John Carter (to whom the same questions would apply) actually get
>>married on Barsoom?
>>
> And produced kids.
>
Burroughs wrote at a time when a publisher would no more put out a book
in which a man impregnantes a woman without marriage, then they would
espouse the communist cause and calling for the violent overthrow of the
government.
Robert Carnegie
Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>aRJay wrote:
>>
>> I think it is arguable that Magrat could be considered a protagonist,
>> because like many Discworld books it can be considered as an
>ensemble
>> piece.
>
>Yes, she's a main character, but she doesn't get all that much
>attention in that book. Now if she'd gotten married at the
>*beginning* of _Lord and Ladies_ I'd count her.
I'd say she gets enough development. And she marries the new
King, who gets developed as well. Performing arts background
and so forth.
Robert Carnegie at home, rja.ca...@excite.com at large
--
I am fully aware I may regret this in the morning.
Robert Carnegie
Wollman <wol...@lcs.mit.edu> writes
>
>(I'm having trouble thinking of any other SFnal Asimov that more than
>mentions marriage.)
Oh, lots. "The Dead Past", IIRC, this one guy's marriage hasn't
been right since their little girl died in a house fire which may have
been started by him smoking.
And what's that one in "The Early Asimov" where in outer space,
psychology is an exact science, and this one psychologist finds
his well-managed home life suddenly disrupted after a long
absence from home - up to then, he handled his wife expertly.
Turns out /she's/ been studying psychology. He can handle that
too, but he'll just have to work out the cubic equations in his head.
Did we get _The Gods Themselves_?
Robert Carnegie
>, Brett Mount <nos_p_a_m...@hotmail.com> writes
>The sirens are screaming and artyw is howling way down in
>rec.arts.sf.written tonight:
>
>}Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:<41005AB0...@worldnet.att.net>...
>}>
>}> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
>}> "happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
>}> like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
>}> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
>}> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
>}
>}
>
>And a reasonably happy one after, IIRC, save for a few difficulties which
>are to be expected.
e.g., situation comedy.
(You have to wonder how relationships survive in situation
comedy. Some don't; if you saw Lenny Henry's _Chef_ - )
Bill Reich
>government.
Publishers in that day DID publish books that espoused the communist cause
and called for the violent overthrow of the government. They did it for the
noblest of reasons: to make a few bucks. They were less likely to publish
books with odd marital arrangements and sexual practices, I suppose.
Will in New Haven
--
"I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them
tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break
them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally
responsible for everything I do."
--Professor Bernardo de la Paz
in Robert A. Heinlein's _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_
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Kate Nepveu
>"Brandon" <jch...@avalon.net> wrote in message
>news:cds77v$e6g$1...@narsil.avalon.net...
>> Louann Miller wrote:
>> > "Then they got up the next morning and lived their lives," on the
>> > other hand, is a harder story to write. Generally less marketable, I
>> > suspect, and not just in SF. It's hard to work exploding spaceships
>> > into that, or car crashes, or medieval sieges.
>> The detective genre, which I am also a fan of, seems to
>> manage. The Thin Man movies, McMillan and Wife, Hart to
>> Hart -- and in print there are the Peter Wimsey books, after
>> he marries Harriet,
>I believe there's only one novel after Peter marries Harriet. It still
>qualifies, but only just (since the novel is about their honeymoon).
There's only one novel by Sayers after Peter married Harriet, and it's
*about* marriage, which makes it rare.
There are authorized-by-the-estate sequels (two, so far, I believe) by
Jill Patton Walsh that I will not read on principle.
--
Kate Nepveu
E-mail: kne...@steelypips.org
Home: http://www.steelypips.org/
Book log: http://www.steelypips.org/weblog/
Pete McCutchen
<kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Many protagonists don't marry, and the rest only get married at the
>very end of the story arc (or even later), and future books in the
>series shift the focus to someone[s] else, with the married couple
>being at most supporting characters (assuming the author didn't
>just kill them off between books to keep them out of the way).
>
>Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
>"happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
>like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
>see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
>first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
Aral Vorkosigan and Cordelia Naismith. They marry at the end of
_Shards_ and most of the series focuses on their son, but there's at
least one book, _Barrayar_, which focuses on them as a married couple.
--
Pete McCutchen
Daphne Brinkerhoff
news:soa7g01p7519m3r5t...@news.verizon.net...
> "Daphne Brinkerhoff" <cen...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >"Brandon" <jch...@avalon.net> wrote in message
> >news:cds77v$e6g$1...@narsil.avalon.net...
> >> manage. The Thin Man movies, McMillan and Wife, Hart to
> >> Hart -- and in print there are the Peter Wimsey books, after
> >> he marries Harriet,
>
> >I believe there's only one novel after Peter marries Harriet. It still
> >qualifies, but only just (since the novel is about their honeymoon).
>
> There's only one novel by Sayers after Peter married Harriet, and it's
> *about* marriage, which makes it rare.
>
> There are authorized-by-the-estate sequels (two, so far, I believe) by
> Jill Patton Walsh that I will not read on principle.
OT discussion here, but I wanted to say that the first sequel is not bad --
apparently Sayers had written about half of it, so it mostly is similar to
her other books. Not particularly memorable, but I felt glad I'd read it.
(It also is about marriage, IIRC.)
The second sequel, I didn't like. It felt like other characters with the
same names, Peter was hardly in it at all, plus it gave away the twist way
too early, and then Harriet of all people was too unimaginative to figure it
out. Icky. I spent the book telling her, "Don't you think that when XXX
happened, it might've been important? Could you, I don't know, check it
out?"
--
Daphne
Robert Carnegie
Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>>
>> Khaavren, in Steven Brust's _The Viscount of Adrilankha_.
>>
>> LOTS more if you accept people a step further away from being the
>> primary focus of the book.
>
>Yes, but I specifically want to see *the* protagonist married. I'd
>say Khaavren doesn't quite qualify. Ditto for Magrat.
>
>And another clarification: it has to be an official, public marriage.
>I don't require a ceremony or ritual (the example that prompted this
>thread didn't have either), but just being faithful lovers isn't
>enough.
If they're married at the start of the story, domestic responsibilities
are liable to get in the way of telling an exciting story. And if they
aren't married, the exciting story is liable to get in the way of
courtship and wedding preparations.
Another consideration is that younger, even juvenile, readers won't
identify so much with married folks: it's an alien experience in
itself, albeit a common one in the population as a whole. Look at
how little kids speculate about how marriages run; it's absurd.
Del Cotter
aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk> said:
>Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>>Yes, but I specifically want to see *the* protagonist married. I'd
>>say Khaavren doesn't quite qualify. Ditto for Magrat.
>H Beam Piper's _Space Viking_ opens with the protagonists wedding,
>again this doesn't count as gunfire occurs before the couple can leave
>the ceremony.
In the last three paragraphs, having spent practically the entire novel
single, the protagonist looks forward to marrying again. And the
curtain goes down...
--
Del Cotter
Thanks to the overwhelming volume of UBE, I am now rejecting *all* email
sent to d...@branta.demon.co.uk. Please send your email to del2 instead.
Martin Wisse
I don't think it was ever said outright, but there were plenty of hints
that Carter was something other than human.
Martin Wisse
--
[...]the distinction between hard and soft SF can be summed up as:
Hard is about $30 a book, heavier, and takes up more room on the shelf.
Soft is the convenient travel size. But then I'm known to judge a book
by it's cover. --Found in a comment by "Eric" at Electrolite.
Jim Millen
<kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>In one of the series I'm currently reading (I think I saw the claim
>that it's intended to be a trilogy) the two primary POV characters get
>married (which wasn't at all surprising) at the beginning of the
>second book (which was). And as I watch them going along being
>happily married (despite only getting one night of privacy so far), it
>occurs to me how rare it is [in SF] to see a married protagonist.
>
>Many protagonists don't marry, and the rest only get married at the
>very end of the story arc (or even later), and future books in the
>series shift the focus to someone[s] else, with the married couple
>being at most supporting characters (assuming the author didn't
>just kill them off between books to keep them out of the way).
>
>Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
>"happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
>like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
>see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
>first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
Haven't read the books in many years so can't remember the names, but
I seem to recall that Melanie Rawn's books have quite a few fairly
happily married people in them... Not that they have easy lives, by
any means.
J.B. Moreno
-snip-
> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
> "happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
> like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
Most of the main characters in Miller and Lee's Liaden series end up
married.
--
JBM
"Everything is futile." -- Marvin of Borg
J.B. Moreno
> What's the biggest age disparity in an SF romance/marriage? I'm
spoilers below
In Simon Green's _Midnight Wine_ the Earth and a human fall in love and
were last seen living together...
J.B. Moreno
> Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
Most of the characters in the _The Last Dragonlord_ and it's sequel's.
EdLincoln
Crazy/antisocial/violent for biological, presumeably hereditary reasons. The
Stainless Steel rat was also biologically crazy (according to one book). Both
were "cured". Shouldn't one of his and Angelina's kids have been aserial
killer? It reminds me of the joke about the two people who got nose jobs, got
married, then had kids...
<< Subject: Re: Married SF
From: Brett Mount nos_p_a_m...@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, Jul 23, 2004 12:11 AM
Message-id: <MPG.1b6b3a59d...@news.individual.net>
The sirens are screaming and Karl Johanson is howling way down in
rec.arts.sf.written tonight:
}The Stainless Steel Rat got married in one of the books. I forget the brides
}name.
That would, of course, be the lovely and dangerous Angelina.
--
Regards
Brett.
"Never Stop Rocking"
>><BR><BR>
Kai Henningsen
> "Brandon" <jch...@avalon.net> wrote in message
> news:cds77v$e6g$1...@narsil.avalon.net...
> >
> >
> > Louann Miller wrote:
> >
> > > "Then they got up the next morning and lived their lives," on the
> > > other hand, is a harder story to write. Generally less marketable, I
> > > suspect, and not just in SF. It's hard to work exploding spaceships
> > > into that, or car crashes, or medieval sieges.
> > >
> > > Louann
> >
> > The detective genre, which I am also a fan of, seems to
> > manage. The Thin Man movies, McMillan and Wife, Hart to
> > Hart -- and in print there are the Peter Wimsey books, after
> > he marries Harriet, and the Spenser novels in which there is
> > no marriage, but a long, stable relationship (which has some
> > very realistic ups and downs).
>
> I believe there's only one novel after Peter marries Harriet. It still
> qualifies, but only just (since the novel is about their honeymoon).
There was. Now there are two more.
Kai
--
http://www.westfalen.de/private/khms/
"... by God I *KNOW* what this network is for, and you can't have it."
- Russ Allbery (r...@stanford.edu)
Kai Henningsen
> of their own, or adopted, a couple of people mentioned that he was
> active in the lives of his nieces and nephews; so perhaps he just
There's a world of difference between being active in the lives of his
nieces and nephews, and having offspring yourself - unless you're of the
class that fobs them off on a nanny most of the time.
It's one (of several) reasons I hope never to have any of my own.
Kai Henningsen
> see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
> first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
_Diplomatic Immunity_.
Two of the three Ivory stories from Doris Egan, I believe.
Eve Dallas and Roarke. (Not exactly marketed as SF, but IMO clearly is.)
I'm sure I've read more, but they don't come to mind.
Oh, large stretches of _Perry Rhodan_, of course; I can recall at least
three marriages[1] (and two kids - daughter married & dead, IIRC, her
spouse being the longtime chief scientific wizard, son still alive and a
really strange character) for PR, and I stopped reading about a decade
ago. (None of the marriages was particularly realistic.)
[1] Thora; Mory Abro; and - Gesil, IIRC? Mory was by far the most
interesting (also the mother, and (originally) independent chief-of-
state).
Kai Henningsen
> That doesn't mean that it may not have required Science (note the
> capital S) to make the union fruitful; just discreetly offstage.
Which reminds me, the relevant science/magic is very onstage in the Urban
Elves series - now we have a fine Human/Elf couple, how do they get
offspring? The "normal way" doesn't work. There's an existence proof, but
it turns out her father used massively unethical methods to get the means
...
Elaine Thompson
<jim_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Any good examples of married protagonists? I don't require
>>"happily ever after" (which isn't fun to read about), but I would
>>like them to be fairly happy [while married] part of the time we
>>see them. Vlad Taltos counts, since he's happily married in his
>>first book. Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin also count. Who else?
That alchemy-for-spaceflight trilogy, by <forgotten>, Silence Leigh
was the main character - she was married before the end and it was
working out fine. Polyandrously, IIRC.
--
Elaine Thompson <Ela...@KEThompson.org>
David Dyer-Bennet
> cen...@hotmail.com (Daphne Brinkerhoff) wrote on 23.07.04 in <2mdnkdF...@uni-berlin.de>:
>
>> "Brandon" <jch...@avalon.net> wrote in message
>> news:cds77v$e6g$1...@narsil.avalon.net...
>> >
>> >
>> > Louann Miller wrote:
>> >
>> > > "Then they got up the next morning and lived their lives," on the
>> > > other hand, is a harder story to write. Generally less marketable, I
>> > > suspect, and not just in SF. It's hard to work exploding spaceships
>> > > into that, or car crashes, or medieval sieges.
>> > >
>> > > Louann
>> >
>> > The detective genre, which I am also a fan of, seems to
>> > manage. The Thin Man movies, McMillan and Wife, Hart to
>> > Hart -- and in print there are the Peter Wimsey books, after
>> > he marries Harriet, and the Spenser novels in which there is
>> > no marriage, but a long, stable relationship (which has some
>> > very realistic ups and downs).
>>
>> I believe there's only one novel after Peter marries Harriet. It still
>> qualifies, but only just (since the novel is about their honeymoon).
>
> There was. Now there are two more.
Fan-fiction doesn't count, even if published commercially and with
permission of the estate.
(Okay, actually I thought Thrones, Dominations had some very good
moments. But I still don't accord it canon status.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd...@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
Richard Todd
> Oh, large stretches of _Perry Rhodan_, of course; I can recall at least
> three marriages[1] (and two kids - daughter married & dead, IIRC, her
> spouse being the longtime chief scientific wizard, son still alive and a
> really strange character) for PR, and I stopped reading about a decade
> ago. (None of the marriages was particularly realistic.)
For Perry, IIRC the current tally is four marriages, one long-term
relationship that might as well have been marriage, one embarrassing
one-night stand, and six children:
Marriage 1: Thora
Son #1: Thomas Cardiff-Rhodan. Son who was raised so well that when he
became an adult he immediately tried to lead a coup to depose Dear Old Dad.
Eventually managed to succeed in that goal, for a little while anyway.
Marriage 2: Mory Rhodan-Abro
Daughter #1: Susan Betty Rhodan, who, as you mentioned, married physicist
Geoffrey Abel Waringer.
Son #2: Michael Reginald Rhodan, a really strange character only
intermittently on speaking terms with Dear Old Dad. Left home at age 20
to join the Free Traders, where he insisted on dressing up as an 18th-century
French nobleman. Yeah. No psychological issues *there*. [Ever get the
idea that Perry just really really shouldn't be raising children?]
Marriage #3: Orana Sestore. Don't know a lot about her.
Marriage #4: Gesil.
Daughter #2: Eirene. Don't know much about her either.
The Long-term Relationship: former Terran secret agent Mondra Diamond.
Son #3: Delorian Rhodan. He didn't live very long (<1 yr).
The Embarrassing One-Night Stand: Arkonide Admiral Ascari da Vivo, which
resulted in
Son #4: Kantiran, whom Perry didn't learn about till Kantiran was age 20.
> [1] Thora; Mory Abro; and - Gesil, IIRC? Mory was by far the most
> interesting (also the mother, and (originally) independent chief-of-
> state).
Yeah. Sometime I oughta track down copies of the Plophos stories (PR#178-199)
just to read about Mory Abro; annoyingly, those stories *weren't* collected
in the Silberbande collections.
John G. Morrison
@narsil.avalon.net:
>
>
> Louann Miller wrote:
>
>
>>
>> "Then they got up the next morning and lived their lives," on the
>> other hand, is a harder story to write. Generally less marketable, I
>> suspect, and not just in SF. It's hard to work exploding spaceships
>> into that, or car crashes, or medieval sieges.
>>
>> Louann
>
> The detective genre, which I am also a fan of, seems to
> manage. The Thin Man movies, McMillan and Wife, Hart to
> Hart -- and in print there are the Peter Wimsey books, after
> he marries Harriet, and the Spenser novels in which there is
> no marriage, but a long, stable relationship (which has some
> very realistic ups and downs).
>
>
IIRC, there were only 3 novels after Wimsey married Harriet and two of
those were short story collections in which the 'Whimsey' story was one
of many by Ms. Sayers.
I will admit however that detective stories are the easiest in which
that married couples can work together. Military stories are just about
impossible because of the chain of command problems and other styles
have similar problems that detective stories just don't seem to have.
John G. Morrison
news:20040725182618...@mb-m05.aol.com:
DeGriz was never alterered, he was simply given a new job in which his
talents and his desires would be fulfilled. Angelina however was
however a homocidal maniac due to the fact that she was born ugly and
the only way to get the surgeries to become the stunner, was to kill, or
at least this is how I remember it. Once this problem was taken care
of, possibly by surgery and/or very good therapy, she is a loving mother
and wife, as long as you don't threaten her kids or man.
John G. Morrison
news:9DYCT...@khms.westfalen.de:
> ten...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Ross TenEyck) wrote on 24.07.04 in
> <cdu7lm$rlg$1...@naig.caltech.edu>:
>
>> That doesn't mean that it may not have required Science (note the
>> capital S) to make the union fruitful; just discreetly offstage.
>
> Which reminds me, the relevant science/magic is very onstage in the
> Urban Elves series - now we have a fine Human/Elf couple, how do they
> get offspring? The "normal way" doesn't work. There's an existence
> proof, but it turns out her father used massively unethical methods
> to get the means ...
>
> Kai
IIRC, there is a way but it takes a lot of energy and includes some
rather nasty magics that aren't exactly going to making you friends and
allies out of anybody else. About the only other way for it to happen
is to have a surrogate parent involved in the fertilization, ie, the
maudlin bard.
John G. Morrison
> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 20:09:02 -0000, Jim Battista <batt...@unt.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>David Allsopp <d...@tqSPAMbase.demon.co.uk> wrote in
>>news:ciMQ4KAo...@tqbase.demon.co.uk:
>>
>>> In article <Xns952ED475B16C...@216.168.3.44>, Jim
>>> Battista <batt...@unt.edu> writes
>>>>Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
>>>>news:41005AB0...@worldnet.att.net:
>>>>
>>>>> Any good examples of married protagonists?
>>>>
>>>>Diziet Sma and Skaffen-Amtiskaw?
>>>
>>> Ouch -- I'd like to hear you explain *that* to the pair mentioned.
>>> From a safe distance, of course. Some sort of radio link,
>>> possibly.
>>
>>They do snipe at each other like a stereotypical Old Married Couple.
>>Their dynamic is a lot like Ricky and Lucy, except that Sma is Ricky
>>and instead of burning a shirt or buying a sofa, Lucy-Amtiskaw
>>splatters people all over a wall or two. Skaffen, jou got some
>>'splainin' to do...
>>
>>Another one:
>>
>>Rachel Mansour and Martin Springfield are married, either de-facto or
>>legally, partway through _Singularity Sky_ and throughout _Iron
>>Sunrise_.
>
> Lee and Miller's Liaden books involve lots of married couples. Shan
> and Priscilia, Val Con and Miri, Pat Rin and the Assassin... Of
> course, on Liad marriages are generally short-lived, since you
> contract them for a set time. The Korval clan seems to be most
> unusual in doing life-long marriages instead.
>
> Rebecca
>
Korval, like most of the Liaden culture has used short, term marriages
for most of their history. A few, in and out of Korval, discover
themselves to be Lifemates in which the partnering is for life, with the
lifemate survivor possibly being brought down as well.