Colder War by Stross
Will DuPower
he's written any other Lovecraftian short stories or novels?
Best,
robo
David DeLaney
>I just read Colder War by Stross, which was a terrific. Does anyone know if
>he's written any other Lovecraftian short stories or novels?
Have you read his The Atrocity Archives and The Jennifer Morgue yet? Nowhere
near as bleak, but still with yummy Lovecraftianness included.
Dave 'as well as other ingredients, for a balanced breakfast' DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David Goldfarb
David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>Will DuPower <nee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>I just read Colder War by Stross, which was a terrific. Does anyone know if
>>he's written any other Lovecraftian short stories or novels?
>
>Have you read his The Atrocity Archives and The Jennifer Morgue yet? Nowhere
>near as bleak, but still with yummy Lovecraftianness included.
On his LJ he describes the third of them, _The Fuller Memorandum_, as
among his scariest things. Not as creepy page-for-page as _A Colder War_,
but bleaker over all....
--
David Goldfarb |"I came to Casablanca for the waters."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "The waters? What waters? We're in the desert."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |"I was misinformed."
Stewart Robert Hinsley
writes
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
John F. Eldredge
> In article <slrnhiqla...@gatekeeper.vic.com>, David DeLaney
> <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>>Will DuPower <nee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>I just read Colder War by Stross, which was a terrific. Does anyone
>>>know if he's written any other Lovecraftian short stories or novels?
>>
>>Have you read his The Atrocity Archives and The Jennifer Morgue yet?
>>Nowhere near as bleak, but still with yummy Lovecraftianness included.
>
> On his LJ he describes the third of them, _The Fuller Memorandum_, as
> among his scariest things. Not as creepy page-for-page as _A Colder
> War_, but bleaker over all....
Just to let you know: _The Fuller Memorandum_ isn't in print yet.
According to Charles Stross's web page, it is supposed to be published in
hardback around July 1st 2010. So, something to look forward to, rather
than something that is available now.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Jack Tingle
> I just read Colder War by Stross, which was a terrific. Does anyone know if
> he's written any other Lovecraftian short stories or novels?
In addition to the others mentioned, there is a free short story on
Tor.com, "Overtime". It's a charming English Christmas tale,
Laundry-style. "Filler of Stockings"...Brrr!
Regards,
Jack Tingle
James Nicoll
John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 21:38:52 +0000, David Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> In article <slrnhiqla...@gatekeeper.vic.com>, David DeLaney
>> <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>>>Will DuPower <nee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>I just read Colder War by Stross, which was a terrific. Does anyone
>>>>know if he's written any other Lovecraftian short stories or novels?
>>>
>>>Have you read his The Atrocity Archives and The Jennifer Morgue yet?
>>>Nowhere near as bleak, but still with yummy Lovecraftianness included.
>>
>> On his LJ he describes the third of them, _The Fuller Memorandum_, as
>> among his scariest things. Not as creepy page-for-page as _A Colder
>> War_, but bleaker over all....
>
>Just to let you know: _The Fuller Memorandum_ isn't in print yet.
>According to Charles Stross's web page, it is supposed to be published in
>hardback around July 1st 2010.
Huh. I got sent the MS very early, then.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Stewart Robert Hinsley
<wjti...@hotmail.com> writes
I found "Down on the Farm", but I'm not finding the one you mentioned.
>
>Regards,
>Jack Tingle
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
ErrolC
{$new...@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <hgjiis$m7...@news.eternal-september.org>, Jack Tingle
> <wjtin...@hotmail.com> writes
>
> >On 12/19/2009 4:24 PM, Will DuPower wrote:
> >> I just read Colder War by Stross, which was a terrific. Does anyone know if
> >> he's written any other Lovecraftian short stories or novels?
>
> >In addition to the others mentioned, there is a free short story on
> >Tor.com, "Overtime". It's a charming English Christmas tale,
> >Laundry-style. "Filler of Stockings"...Brrr!
>
> I found "Down on the Farm", but I'm not finding the one you mentioned.
>
Explained at http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/12/teaser.html#comments
I also got 'The Concrete Jungle' Novella as an ebook, not sure where
from - a Tor.com mailout?
Being a Tor.com member is fairly painless, an email every week or so?
They are running 'December Belongs to Cthulhu', so various posts and
shorts of interest there.
--
Errol Cavit | We were thinking of challenging the Taliban to a game of
football on Christmas Day, but I'm not sure they'd get the joke.
- Sgt Kraig Whalley, 29, Royal Military Policeman
David DeLaney
>Stewart Robert Hinsley $new...@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Jack Tingle <wjtin...@hotmail.com> writes
>> >On 12/19/2009 4:24 PM, Will DuPower wrote:
>> >In addition to the others mentioned, there is a free short story on
>> >Tor.com, "Overtime". It's a charming English Christmas tale,
>> >Laundry-style. "Filler of Stockings"...Brrr!
>>
>> I found "Down on the Farm", but I'm not finding the one you mentioned.
>
>Explained at http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/12/
teaser.html#comments
... so Tor.com subscribers got it by email, but it's not actually up on tor.com
yet, am I reading this right? (Because I also do not see it there, though Tor's
author search seems to have a broken piece, judging by the error message.)
Dave
Michael Grosberg
Well, There's _A Boy and his God_ but it's a parody, not a horror
story.
If you are looking for "more of the same" you should probably try
_Missile Gap_. It's not Lovecraftian but has a similar sense of cosmic
dread and cold war vibe.
ErrolC
> ErrolC <Erro...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Stewart Robert Hinsley $new...@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Jack Tingle <wjtin...@hotmail.com> writes
> >> >On 12/19/2009 4:24 PM, Will DuPower wrote:
> >> >In addition to the others mentioned, there is a free short story on
> >> >Tor.com, "Overtime". It's a charming English Christmas tale,
> >> >Laundry-style. "Filler of Stockings"...Brrr!
>
> >> I found "Down on the Farm", but I'm not finding the one you mentioned.
>
>
> teaser.html#comments
>
> ... so Tor.com subscribers got it by email, but it's not actually up on tor.com
> yet, am I reading this right? (Because I also do not see it there, though Tor's
> author search seems to have a broken piece, judging by the error message.)
>
That's right (as of 20091221:1142 NZST)
I haven't read it yet, I should find the .epub version much easier to
read on iPhone :-)
--
Errol Cavit
"I completely took it for granted that my life would continue, no
matter how many might perish around me. So long as this absurd fallacy
remained firmly fixed in my mind, I was a pretty damned good pilot."
Lord Kilbracken, _Bring Back my Stringbag_
Robert Sneddon
<jdni...@panix.com> writes
>>Just to let you know: _The Fuller Memorandum_ isn't in print yet.
>>According to Charles Stross's web page, it is supposed to be published in
>>hardback around July 1st 2010.
>
> Huh. I got sent the MS very early, then.
Charlie runs his longer fiction past a bunch of pre-readers via the
Internet so a bunch of us have already read "The Fuller Memorandum", or
at least the late beta version before the final copy edits and minor
tweaking. Maybe that's where you saw it?
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
James Nicoll
I did a report on it for work but I'm guessing it would not have
been the final version.
Charlie Stross
as <jdni...@panix.com> declared:
> In article <$h9y$FJm80...@nospam.demon.co.uk>,
> Robert Sneddon <fr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <hgjmr9$nmi$1...@reader1.panix.com>, James Nicoll
>><jdni...@panix.com> writes
>>>In article <7p509j...@mid.individual.net>,
>>>John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Just to let you know: _The Fuller Memorandum_ isn't in print yet.
>>>>According to Charles Stross's web page, it is supposed to be published in
>>>>hardback around July 1st 2010.
>>>
>>> Huh. I got sent the MS very early, then.
>>
>> Charlie runs his longer fiction past a bunch of pre-readers via the
>>Internet so a bunch of us have already read "The Fuller Memorandum", or
>>at least the late beta version before the final copy edits and minor
>>tweaking. Maybe that's where you saw it?
>
> I did a report on it for work but I'm guessing it would not have
> been the final version.
Correct, as I only approved the final copy-edited manuscript last week.
(It's now in the production pipeline at Ace and will be published
simultaneously in the UK by Orbit.)
-- Charlie
Philipp Klaus Krause
> I just read Colder War by Stross, which was a terrific. Does anyone know if
> he's written any other Lovecraftian short stories or novels?
I, too really like "A Colder War" and thus would like to extend the
scope of this question slightly: What stories with a similar, if
possible lovecraftian cold war, atmosphere are there (independent of
author)?
Philipp
Philipp Klaus Krause
> In article <slrnhiqla...@gatekeeper.vic.com>,
> David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>> Will DuPower <nee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> I just read Colder War by Stross, which was a terrific. Does anyone know if
>>> he's written any other Lovecraftian short stories or novels?
>> Have you read his The Atrocity Archives and The Jennifer Morgue yet? Nowhere
>> near as bleak, but still with yummy Lovecraftianness included.
>
> On his LJ he describes the third of them, _The Fuller Memorandum_, as
> among his scariest things. Not as creepy page-for-page as _A Colder War_,
> but bleaker over all....
>
I haven't read those yet; unfortunately "incursions from other realities
caused by the inadvertent manipulation of complex mathematical
equations" (from Amazon's product description) seems rather bullshitty
to me.
Philipp
icarp...@aol.com
Hmmmm
In the subgenre of mythos spies/government cospiracy type stuff
Delta Green: Dark Theaters - this and the next anthology are excellent
compilations
Delta Green Alien Intelligence
Delta Green: The Rules of Engagement by Tybes - a great novel
Radiant Dawn
Ravenous Dusk - both by Cody Goodfellow. Personally I rate Radiant
Dawn as the best mythos novel yet written.
In the short story collection by Barron The Imago Sequence is an
absolutely brilliant story of this ilk, "Old Virginia." The whole
book is a great read, but "Old Virginia" knocked my socks off.
"Abomination with Rice" by Hughes is both brilliant and wildly
unusual, set in the war years. It is found in Cthulhu Unbound #2
The Spiraling Worm - Not as good as Delta Green but with flashes of
brilliance is the collaborative set of linked stories by Conyers and
Sunseri. Jack Dixon is an NSA operative and my favorite Conyers
character, Major Harrison Peel is an Australian agent. I really liked
"Impossible Onject" and "False Containment." Another good reason to
get Cthulhu Unbound #2 is the story "Stomach Acid," which is also a
Major Peel story.
The Delta Green novel set in WWII Denied to the Enemy by Detwiller was
the weakest of the books I've mentioned here.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Matt
Andrew Plotkin
It's not.
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
Default User
Nothing to do with this, but I'm in the midst of Saturn's Children and
enjoying it.
Brian
--
Day 324 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
William December Starr
"icarp...@aol.com" <icarp...@aol.com> said:
> In the subgenre of mythos spies/government cospiracy type stuff
>
> Delta Green: Dark Theaters - this and the next anthology are
> excellent compilations
> Delta Green Alien Intelligence
> Delta Green: The Rules of Engagement by Tybes - a great novel
Additional data regarding Delta Green fiction:
DARK THEATRES (note British spelling) is edited by Bob Kruger.
ALIEN INTELLIGENCE is edited by Blair Reynolds, Dennis Detwiller,
and John Tynes, and good luck finding it -- amazon.com says "1 new
from $245.09 9 used from $49.58."
THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT is by John Tynes.
As Matt mentions later in his post, there is also DENIED TO THE
ENEMY by Dennis Detwiller.
> In the short story collection by Barron The Imago Sequence is an
> absolutely brilliant story of this ilk, "Old Virginia." The whole
> book is a great read, but "Old Virginia" knocked my socks off.
Note: the Barron in this case is Laird, not the more sfnally
prolific T.A.
> "Abomination with Rice" by Hughes is both brilliant and wildly
> unusual, set in the war years. It is found in Cthulhu Unbound #2
CTHULHU UNBOUND and CTHULHU UNBOUND 2 are edited by Thomas Brannan
and John Sunseri.
> The Spiraling Worm - Not as good as Delta Green but with flashes
> of brilliance is the collaborative set of linked stories by
> Conyers and Sunseri.
Specifically, David Conyers and John Sunseri.
-- wds
Howard
There's Tim Power's _Declare_
David DeLaney
>Here, Philipp Klaus Krause <p...@spth.de> wrote:
>> David Goldfarb schrieb:
>> >> Have you read his The Atrocity Archives and The Jennifer Morgue yet?
Nowhere
>> >> near as bleak, but still with yummy Lovecraftianness included.
>> >
>> > On his LJ he describes the third of them, _The Fuller Memorandum_, as
>> > among his scariest things. Not as creepy page-for-page as _A Colder War_,
>> > but bleaker over all....
>>
>> I haven't read those yet; unfortunately "incursions from other realities
>> caused by the inadvertent manipulation of complex mathematical
>> equations" (from Amazon's product description) seems rather bullshitty
>> to me.
>
>It's not.
Seconded. Turns out that's what summoning spells ARE, and sufficiently
advanced mathematics IS indistinguishable from magic, in that setting.
Unfortunately, the math research doesn't come with, or produce its own,
warning labels. So part of The Laundry's function is keeping tabs on, and
disappearing-if-necessary, up-and-coming math students so that they don't
publish proofs of one or another theorem that would lead to readers of that
paper inadvertently causing Norwich to be eaten by grues. The math/magic
crossover leads to other interesting results as well...
Dave
Sean Eric Fagan
David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>Seconded. Turns out that's what summoning spells ARE, and sufficiently
>advanced mathematics IS indistinguishable from magic, in that setting.
As much as I like the stories, I do have a problem with it.
I can buy the premise that the human brain becomes a convenient receptacle
when doing certain kinds of symbolic manipulation, and even more easily that
doing that brings us to the attention of ... other things.
But a computer isn't really manipulating symbols -- all they're doing is bit
manipulation. And the differences between the human brain and a computer
"doing" the same symbolic manipulation are... huge.
Of course, Charlie knows all this, and tells the stories so well that I don't
think about it. (Disbelief is suspended far more willingly when one is
*amused* and *entertained*. :) And he may even have an explanation in mind.)
This is something that's cropped up in several stories, not just his -- the
idea that a computer processing some advanced equation can affect space. So I
also admit I could be wrong.
David DeLaney
>David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>>Seconded. Turns out that's what summoning spells ARE, and sufficiently
>>advanced mathematics IS indistinguishable from magic, in that setting.
>
>As much as I like the stories, I do have a problem with it.
>
>I can buy the premise that the human brain becomes a convenient receptacle
>when doing certain kinds of symbolic manipulation, and even more easily that
>doing that brings us to the attention of ... other things.
>
>But a computer isn't really manipulating symbols -- all they're doing is bit
>manipulation. And the differences between the human brain and a computer
>"doing" the same symbolic manipulation are... huge.
It depends on perception. ("Do you agree that the name is the thing?") And
intent. The computers in question generally didn't write the programs involved
themselves - humans did it. Also, there's other Entities around in that
setting that can be doing the perceiving...
>This is something that's cropped up in several stories, not just his -- the
>idea that a computer processing some advanced equation can affect space. So I
>also admit I could be wrong.
You usually see it more in the context of 'this much information-movement
density starts cracking the metric open', but adding in "something might be
waiting on the other side" and "different patterns of processing produce
different crack patterns" bridge the gap nicely.
Mind, the gap!
David Goldfarb
short story in it up available to read free on tor.com.
--
David Goldfarb |"It doesn't matter. Don't you see? Nothing matters!"
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Fredric Brown, "Come and Go Mad"
W. Citoan
> For those who'd like a taste of Stross's "Laundry" series, there's a
> short story in it up available to read free on tor.com.
"The Concrete Jungle" which is an earlier story in the same series is
also avalable via http://www.goldengryphon.com/Stross-Concrete.html
- W. Citoan
--
That little world, the human mind.
-- Samuel Rogers
Robert Sneddon
W. Citoan <wci...@NOSPAM-yahoo.com> writes
>David Goldfarb wrote:
>> For those who'd like a taste of Stross's "Laundry" series, there's a
>> short story in it up available to read free on tor.com.
>
>"The Concrete Jungle" which is an earlier story in the same series is
>also avalable via http://www.goldengryphon.com/Stross-Concrete.html
"Down on the Farm", another Laundry short story is available for
reading and download on the Tor site. You can find it here:
http://www.tor.com/bios/authors/charlesstross
Charlie has other stories on the web free to read and download:
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/fiction/index.html
has a list with links where some of the stories can be found. I
particularly like "Dechlorinating the Moderator" and reread it when the
LHC team at CERN announced they had taken the record for particle
collision energy recently, with a paltry 2 point something TeV. Hah.
W. Citoan
> In message <slrnhj6vhj....@wcitoan-via.eternal-september.org>,
> W. Citoan <wci...@NOSPAM-yahoo.com> writes
> >David Goldfarb wrote:
> >> For those who'd like a taste of Stross's "Laundry" series, there's a
> >> short story in it up available to read free on tor.com.
> >
> >"The Concrete Jungle" which is an earlier story in the same series is
> >also avalable via http://www.goldengryphon.com/Stross-Concrete.html
>
> "Down on the Farm", another Laundry short story is available for
> reading and download on the Tor site. You can find it here:
>
> http://www.tor.com/bios/authors/charlesstross
I believe that's the one David was refering to above. :-)
Though providing a direct link is nice.
David Goldfarb
No, I was talking about a new one called "Overtime". (It's a Laundry
Christmas story.) It's currently findable directly from the front
page, but I'll go ahead and give you the direct link too:
<http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=story&id=58511>
--
David Goldfarb |"'The truth will set you free.'
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | If you love the truth, you'll inevitably
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | come back!" -- Hitherby Dragons
alie...@gmail.com
> In article <slrnhj7rpp.3qg.wcit...@wcitoan-via.eternal-september.org>,
>
>
>
> W. Citoan <wcit...@NOSPAM-yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Robert Sneddon wrote:
> >> W. Citoan <wcit...@NOSPAM-yahoo.com> writes
> >> >David Goldfarb wrote:
> >> >> For those who'd like a taste of Stross's "Laundry" series, there's a
> >> >> short story in it up available to read free on tor.com.
>
> >> >"The Concrete Jungle" which is an earlier story in the same series is
>
> >> "Down on the Farm", another Laundry short story is available for
> >> reading and download on the Tor site. You can find it here:
>
> >> http://www.tor.com/bios/authors/charlesstross
>
> >I believe that's the one David was refering to above. :-)
> >Though providing a direct link is nice.
>
> No, I was talking about a new one called "Overtime". (It's a Laundry
> Christmas story.) It's currently findable directly from the front
> page, but I'll go ahead and give you the direct link too:
> <http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=story&id=58511>
Heh, not bad. "Filler Of Stockings", indeed; more like "filler of
underpants" for our hero...
Mark L. Fergerson
Frank Mayhar
You're missing out. The setting seems nicely self-consistent and, as sef
pointed out, the stories are entertaining and enjoyable enough that any
disbelief gets very willingly suspended for the duration. Leading to
some fine bone-chilling reading (although, fortunately for me, sans
nightmares, those being the reason I avoid the horror genre in general,
yeah, I'm a wimp).
And speaking as a software engineer (and knowing that Charlies is, or
was, one as well), his computer science stuff is generally on the mark,
with the added bonus of said very advanced computers being run by more or
less trapped Eldritch Horrors. Considering the complexity of modern
software, Eldritch Horrors aren't actually such a stretch, in fact. :-P
--
Frank Mayhar fr...@exit.com http://www.exit.com/
http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/
http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar*
Dan Goodman
> On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:05:24 +0100, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
>
> > David Goldfarb schrieb:
> >> In article <slrnhiqla...@gatekeeper.vic.com>, David DeLaney
> >> <d...@vic.com> wrote:
> >>> Will DuPower <nee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> I just read Colder War by Stross, which was a terrific. Does
> anyone >>>> know if he's written any other Lovecraftian short stories
> or novels? >>> Have you read his The Atrocity Archives and The
> Jennifer Morgue yet? >>> Nowhere near as bleak, but still with yummy
> Lovecraftianness included. >> On his LJ he describes the third of
> them, _The Fuller Memorandum_, as >> among his scariest things. Not
> as creepy page-for-page as _A Colder >> War_, but bleaker over all....
> > I haven't read those yet; unfortunately "incursions from other
> > realities caused by the inadvertent manipulation of complex
> > mathematical equations" (from Amazon's product description) seems
> > rather bullshitty to me.
>
> You're missing out. The setting seems nicely self-consistent and, as
> sef pointed out, the stories are entertaining and enjoyable enough
> that any disbelief gets very willingly suspended for the duration.
> Leading to some fine bone-chilling reading (although, fortunately for
> me, sans nightmares, those being the reason I avoid the horror genre
> in general, yeah, I'm a wimp).
My reason for not reading much horror: Generalized Anxiety Disorder
means never having to read horror to get the thrills.
--
Dan Goodman
Journal at:
dsgood.livejournal.com
dsgood.dreamwidth.org
dsgood.insanejournal.com
alie...@gmail.com
> Frank Mayhar wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:05:24 +0100, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
>
> > > David Goldfarb schrieb:
> > >> <d...@vic.com> wrote:
> > >>> Will DuPower <nee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> I just read Colder War by Stross, which was a terrific. Does
> > anyone >>>> know if he's written any other Lovecraftian short stories
> > or novels? >>> Have you read his The Atrocity Archives and The
> > Jennifer Morgue yet? >>> Nowhere near as bleak, but still with yummy
> > Lovecraftianness included. >> On his LJ he describes the third of
> > them, _The Fuller Memorandum_, as >> among his scariest things. Not
> > as creepy page-for-page as _A Colder >> War_, but bleaker over all....
> > > I haven't read those yet; unfortunately "incursions from other
> > > realities caused by the inadvertent manipulation of complex
> > > mathematical equations" (from Amazon's product description) seems
> > > rather bullshitty to me.
>
> > You're missing out. The setting seems nicely self-consistent and, as
> > sef pointed out, the stories are entertaining and enjoyable enough
> > that any disbelief gets very willingly suspended for the duration.
> > Leading to some fine bone-chilling reading (although, fortunately for
> > me, sans nightmares, those being the reason I avoid the horror genre
> > in general, yeah, I'm a wimp).
>
> My reason for not reading much horror: Generalized Anxiety Disorder
> means never having to read horror to get the thrills.
GAD, eh? New acronym on me.
Obviously then, you certainly don't want to read any through
electronic media.
That would be...
e-GAD!
(ducks and runs)
Mark L. Fergerson
netcat
dsg...@iphouse.com says...
"I have it in me so much nearer home/To scare myself with my own desert
places."
rgds,
netcat