Just so you know
James Nicoll
http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20030805003/tscript.htm
"First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have
important human themes. They have elements of romance, history,
adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional.
It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either."
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Remus Shepherd
> Terry Goodkind does not write fantasy:
> http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20030805003/tscript.htm
> "First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have
> important human themes. They have elements of romance, history,
> adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional.
> It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either."
I want to smack every writer who declaims their genre.
I hope an agent told him to say that. I hope he doesn't actually
believe it.
... ...
Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com>
Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/remus_shepherd/
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<re...@panix.com> wrote:
>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Terry Goodkind does not write fantasy:
>> http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20030805003/tscript.htm
>> "First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have
>> important human themes. They have elements of romance, history,
>> adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional.
>> It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either."
>
> I want to smack every writer who declaims their genre.
I believe you mean "disclaims."
> I hope an agent told him to say that. I hope he doesn't actually
>believe it.
As it happens, I know his agent, and he would never, ever tell anyone
to say that. Goodkind's being a jerk all on his own.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm selling my comic collection -- see http://www.watt-evans.com/comics.html
I'm serializing a novel at http://www.watt-evans.com/realmsoflight0.html
Dimensional Traveler
> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Terry Goodkind does not write fantasy:
>> http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20030805003/tscript.htm
>> "First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have
>> important human themes. They have elements of romance, history,
>> adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional.
>> It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either."
>
> I want to smack every writer who declaims their genre.
>
> I hope an agent told him to say that. I hope he doesn't actually
> believe it.
>
I've heard about, he almost certainly does believe it. "I don't do
either" is so very, _very_ true it made me LOL. But not in a way he'd like.
--
7 Years - 2265 Experiments - 10 tons of explosives - 705 Myths
Myths - Will - Fall!
Mike Schilling
> Terry Goodkind does not write fantasy:
>
> http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20030805003/tscript.htm
>
> "First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have
> important human themes. They have elements of romance, history,
> adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional.
> It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either."
This reminds me of the director who said "This isn't just a comedy.
It's about relationships.", while discussing his Coneheads movie.
Quadibloc
> "First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have
> important human themes. They have elements of romance, history,
> adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional.
> It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either."
Aside from the failings of the series that began with Wizard's First
Rule - which are manifold, the series being some sort of bizarre
political tract, and hence subject to being classed as "one-
dimensional" - this would still be a laughable statement even if this
were not an issue.
The Lord of the Rings has important human themes; it has elements of
romance and adventure, and it definitely presents a moral and
philosophical point of view.
Does that mean, then, that it is not fantasy?
Or is it Tolkien's linguistic indulgences that make it about "world
building"?
What makes the Lord of the Rings fantasy, of course, is: dragons,
rings that turn people invisible, magic, and so on and so forth don't
exist in the real world in which we live - and, in addition, they're
not presented as the consequences of a further advance in technology
from what we now have, so that eliminates science fiction as the
genre.
"Wizard's First Rule" also has magic and wizards in it. That makes it
fantasy, and that would be true even if it were good fantasy, like
Lord of the Rings, instead of mediocre fantasy like Sword of Shannara.
But denying one's genre sometimes _does_ make sense. If you're Ray
Bradbury, you might well say that you don't write science fiction. Not
so much because you believe it, but because you don't want to embarass
the nice magazines that publish your stories which are _not_ printed
on pulp, and which do _not_ have lurid painted covers.
As Terry Goodkind's publisher actually does publish some of that
horrid fantasy stuff written by authors who actually admit they write
fantasy, he doesn't need to defend its reputation in that fashion.
Juho Julkunen
(mscotts...@hotmail.com) says...
"This isn't a comic book movie. This is a science fiction movie based
on a comic book." Or that's what Bryan Singer said of "X-Men". Because
SF isn't quite at the bottom of the pile.
--
Juho Julkunen
Remus Shepherd
> I believe you mean "disclaims."
Yes, thank you, that's what I meant. Now I want to smack myself.
> > I hope an agent told him to say that. I hope he doesn't actually
> >believe it.
> As it happens, I know his agent, and he would never, ever tell anyone
> to say that. Goodkind's being a jerk all on his own.
Well, that's one theory we can throw away, then. I don't understand
what makes authors do this.
Dorothy J Heydt
Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com> wrote:
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> <re...@panix.com> wrote:
>> > I want to smack every writer who declaims their genre.
>
>> I believe you mean "disclaims."
>
> Yes, thank you, that's what I meant. Now I want to smack myself.
>
>> > I hope an agent told him to say that. I hope he doesn't actually
>> >believe it.
>
>> As it happens, I know his agent, and he would never, ever tell anyone
>> to say that. Goodkind's being a jerk all on his own.
>
> Well, that's one theory we can throw away, then. I don't understand
>what makes authors do this.
"'SF's no good!' they holler till we're deaf.
'But this is good!' 'Well, then, that's not SF.'"
(Damon Knight maybe?)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
Mike Schilling
> "'SF's no good!' they holler till we're deaf.
> 'But this is good!' 'Well, then, that's not SF.'"
> (Damon Knight maybe?)
"Computers can't reason; they' never be able to do X".
"They can do X now."
"Well, that's not reasoning, then. Even a machine can do that."
David Johnston
<re...@panix.com> wrote:
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> <re...@panix.com> wrote:
>> > I want to smack every writer who declaims their genre.
>
>> I believe you mean "disclaims."
>
> Yes, thank you, that's what I meant. Now I want to smack myself.
>
>> > I hope an agent told him to say that. I hope he doesn't actually
>> >believe it.
>
>> As it happens, I know his agent, and he would never, ever tell anyone
>> to say that. Goodkind's being a jerk all on his own.
>
> Well, that's one theory we can throw away, then. I don't understand
>what makes authors do this.
In this case the answer is obvious. He aspires to be a latter day Ayn
Rand, and Rands books aren't shelved with science fiction.
Mike Schilling
> In this case the answer is obvious. He aspires to be a latter day
> Ayn
> Rand, and Rands books aren't shelved with science fiction.
I don't know why not -- her work has so much in common with Hugo
Gernsback's.
Howard Brazee
It's the "No True Scotsman" argument.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Wayne Throop
:: X now." "Well, that's not reasoning, then. Even a machine can do that."
: Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net>
: It's the "No True Scotsman" argument.
Hm. The traditional TSA is more, "anything that does X is not a Y".
In the above, "anything Y can do is not an X". The two aren't *quite*
equivalent, especially as the things Y can do are monotonically
increasing.
Psychiatrist: "You're convinced you are a ghost?"
Patient: "I'm not only convinced, I AM a ghost."
Psychiatrist: "Ghosts don't bleed, do they?"
Patient: "No, of course not."
Psychiatrist: <pricks patient's finger with a lancet>
"See, you're bleeding. So what do you say now?"
Patient: "Ah. Well. I guess ghosts bleed after all."
"I would more easily believe that a Yankee professor would lie
than that stones would fall from heaven."
--- Thomas Jefferson
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Mike Schilling
>
> Hm. The traditional TSA is more, "anything that does X is not a Y".
> In the above, "anything Y can do is not an X". The two aren't
> *quite*
> equivalent, especially as the things Y can do are monotonically
> increasing.
Until you "upgrade" to Vista, anyway.
Michael Grosberg
You know, I can sort of accept this from the Margaret Atwoods of this
world, who aim for a mainstream readership. I don't care if a writer
fibs here and there to attract readers who would otherwise shun his
books. But honestly, what does Terry Goodkind have to offer to the
mainstream? As far as I know (never read his work but many friends did
so I have a clear impression), He DOES write genre fantasy which IS
all about magic and swordfighting and one-dimensional characters. At
least in the Sword of Truth series, which, by Jove, has an implement
of war in its name, a sure sign of genre if ever there was one.
netcat
@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, grosberg...@gmail.com says...
> On Nov 4, 7:18 pm, Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com> wrote:
> > James Nicoll <jdnic...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > Terry Goodkind does not write fantasy:
> > >http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20030805003/tscript.htm
> > > "First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have
> > > important human themes. They have elements of romance, history,
> > > adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional.
> > > It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either."
> >
> > I want to smack every writer who declaims their genre.
> >
> > I hope an agent told him to say that. I hope he doesn't actually
> > believe it.
> >
> > ... ...
> > Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com>
> > Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/remus_shepherd/
>
> You know, I can sort of accept this from the Margaret Atwoods of this
> world, who aim for a mainstream readership. I don't care if a writer
> fibs here and there to attract readers who would otherwise shun his
> books. But honestly, what does Terry Goodkind have to offer to the
> mainstream?
He also says, "My primary interest is in telling stories that are fun to
read and make people think. That puts my books in a genre all their
own."
rgds,
netcat
James Nicoll
The Stabbing Tool of Factuality series (which was published
by Tor) is overtly fantasy. Goodkind's latest novel, The Law of Nines,
is a thriller and is from G.P. Putnam's Sons/Penguin Books [1]. While
it is true his Tor books and his Penguin books are connected, he may
feel it is useful to distinguish the two series.
1: The deal Goodkind got when he jumped ship from Tor got a fair
amount of attention.
http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6573502.html
Kurt Busiek
> In article <4df7ab7f-0b31-4b68-845d-5310da7f3003
> @b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, grosberg...@gmail.com says...
>> On Nov 4, 7:18�pm, Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> James Nicoll <jdnic...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> � � � � Terry Goodkind does not write fantasy:
>>>> http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20030805003/tscript.htm
>>>> "First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have
>>>> important human themes. They have elements of romance, history,
>>>> adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional.
>>>> It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either."
>>>
>>> � �I want to smack every writer who declaims their genre.
>>>
>>> I hope an agent told him to say that. �I hope he doesn't actually
>>> believe it.
>>
>> You know, I can sort of accept this from the Margaret Atwoods of this
>> world, who aim for a mainstream readership. I don't care if a writer
>> fibs here and there to attract readers who would otherwise shun his
>> books. But honestly, what does Terry Goodkind have to offer to the
>> mainstream?
>
> He also says, "My primary interest is in telling stories that are fun to
> read and make people think. That puts my books in a genre all their
> own."
Because no one else does that?
Or because no one else does it quite so badly?
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Sean O'Hara
>
> He also says, "My primary interest is in telling stories that are fun to
> read and make people think.
What a liar.
--
Sean O'Hara <http://www.diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com>
New audio book: As Long as You Wish by John O'Keefe
<http://librivox.org/short-science-fiction-collection-010/>
Matt Hughes
> He DOES write genre fantasy which IS
> all about magic and swordfighting and one-dimensional characters.
Yes, but they're _important_ one-dimensional characters. Just like
the people who read Ayn Rand without laughing.
Matt Hughes
http://www.archonate.com
William Hyde
>
> "'SF's no good!' they holler till we're deaf.
> 'But this is good!' 'Well, then, that's not SF.'"
> (Damon Knight maybe?)
I've seen it cited as:
-- Robert Conquest, Spectrum 2, 1962
http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/sf/sfbooks.htm
William Hyde
David DeLaney
>But honestly, what does Terry Goodkind have to offer to the
>mainstream? As far as I know (never read his work but many friends did
>so I have a clear impression), He DOES write genre fantasy which IS
>all about magic and swordfighting and one-dimensional characters. At
>least in the Sword of Truth series, which, by Jove, has an implement
>of war in its name, a sure sign of genre if ever there was one.
More precisely, he WOULD write genre fantasy, except he's slathered it in
gore and fetishism and stuck Objectivism all over it like feathers. Which still
doesn't make it mainstream anything, but does make it rather difficult to read.
(Perhaps he's trying to get his new book off the SF shelves and over onto the
mainstream Fiction shelves, for whatever reason?)
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Dorothy J Heydt
Heh. He's excluding Tolkien? I calls that hubris. (That's
Greek for chutzpah.)
"The prime motive was the desire of a tale-teller to try his hand
at a really long story that would hold the attention of readers,
amuse them, delight them, and at times maybe excite them or
deeply move them." -- JRRT, Preface to the revised edition, _FotR_
the fish wife
curse
and the laugh
of the horse
shakespeare
and i
are frequently
coarse
--archy the cockroach, via don marquis
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Nov 4, 3:10�pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>>
>> "'SF's no good!' they holler till we're deaf.
>> 'But this is good!' �'Well, then, that's not SF.'"
>> (Damon Knight maybe?)
>
>I've seen it cited as:
>
>-- Robert Conquest, Spectrum 2, 1962
I knew it wasn't Damon, didn't remember who it was.
Jesper Lauridsen
> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful netcat declared:
>>
>> He also says, "My primary interest is in telling stories that are fun to
>> read and make people think.
>
> What a liar.
He said it was his interest - not that he had actually done it.
Bill Snyder
"Two out of three ain't bad." The story he tells in the quote
made me think. It made me think that they will be serving
sno-cones at the ice hockey rink in hell on the day I buy a book
by that asshole.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:c2dd8b54-64c9-47eb...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.
com:
> On 5 Nov, 14:58, Michael Grosberg <grosberg.mich...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> He DOES write genre fantasy which IS
>> all about magic and swordfighting and one-dimensional
>> characters.
>
>
> Yes, but they're _important_ one-dimensional characters. Just
> like the people who read Ayn Rand without laughing.
Heh. As if there's anyone who can do that who hasn't had a steel rod
thrust through their brains.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:slrnhf6ch...@gatekeeper.vic.com:
> (Perhaps he's trying to get his new book off the SF shelves and
> over onto the mainstream Fiction shelves, for whatever reason?)
>
I would think the reason would be obvious. It will likely sell better
there.
If for no other reason than becaue the people who browser there won't
already know better.
Bill Snyder
Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Matt Hughes <arch...@googlemail.com> wrote in
>news:c2dd8b54-64c9-47eb...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.
>com:
>
>> On 5 Nov, 14:58, Michael Grosberg <grosberg.mich...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> He DOES write genre fantasy which IS
>>> all about magic and swordfighting and one-dimensional
>>> characters.
>>
>>
>> Yes, but they're _important_ one-dimensional characters. Just
>> like the people who read Ayn Rand without laughing.
>
>Heh. As if there's anyone who can do that who hasn't had a steel rod
>thrust through their brains.
Unfortunately, you only need to think about the number of
Rand-olaters who post to Usenet to realize that there are a lot of
them who only *should* have had a steel rod thrust through their
brains.
--
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:9q89f59mnui23ggal...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:23:27 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying
> Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Matt Hughes <arch...@googlemail.com> wrote in
>>news:c2dd8b54-64c9-47eb...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroup
>>s. com:
>>
>>> On 5 Nov, 14:58, Michael Grosberg <grosberg.mich...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> He DOES write genre fantasy which IS
>>>> all about magic and swordfighting and one-dimensional
>>>> characters.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, but they're _important_ one-dimensional characters.
>>> Just like the people who read Ayn Rand without laughing.
>>
>>Heh. As if there's anyone who can do that who hasn't had a steel
>>rod thrust through their brains.
>
> Unfortunately, you only need to think about the number of
> Rand-olaters who post to Usenet to realize that there are a lot
> of them who only *should* have had a steel rod thrust through
> their brains.
>
It is certainly plausible that they would wish to be like Their
Hero, and severe (but not *quite* fatal) brain damage seems the
most efficient path.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Matt Hughes <arch...@googlemail.com> wrote in
> news:c2dd8b54-64c9-47eb...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.
> com:
>
>> On 5 Nov, 14:58, Michael Grosberg <grosberg.mich...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> He DOES write genre fantasy which IS
>>> all about magic and swordfighting and one-dimensional
>>> characters.
>>
>> Yes, but they're _important_ one-dimensional characters. Just
>> like the people who read Ayn Rand without laughing.
>
> Heh. As if there's anyone who can do that who hasn't had a steel rod
> thrust through their brains.
>
I have not had a steel rod thrust through my brains, and I read Ayn
Rand without laughing.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
art...@yahoo.com
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 21:56:36 +0000 (UTC), Jesper Lauridsen
>
> >On 2009-11-05, Sean O'Hara <seanoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful netcat declared:
>
> >>> He also says, "My primary interest is in telling stories that are fun to
> >>> read and make people think.
>
> >> What a liar.
>
> >He said it was his interest - not that he had actually done it.
>
> "Two out of three ain't bad." The story he tells in the quote
> made me think. It made me think that they will be serving
> sno-cones at the ice hockey rink in hell on the day I buy a book
> by that asshole.
Somewhere in SF, Hell actually does freeze over. Right?
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:hd2d7i$6lq$5...@news.eternal-september.org:
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>> Matt Hughes <arch...@googlemail.com> wrote in
>> news:c2dd8b54-64c9-47eb...@p35g2000yqh.googlegrou
>> ps. com:
>>
>>> On 5 Nov, 14:58, Michael Grosberg <grosberg.mich...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> He DOES write genre fantasy which IS
>>>> all about magic and swordfighting and one-dimensional
>>>> characters.
>>>
>>> Yes, but they're _important_ one-dimensional characters.
>>> Just like the people who read Ayn Rand without laughing.
>>
>> Heh. As if there's anyone who can do that who hasn't had a
>> steel rod thrust through their brains.
>>
>
> I have not had a steel rod thrust through my brains, and I
> read Ayn
> Rand without laughing.
>
You should laugh. Crying that much is bad for you.
Dorothy J Heydt
Yes. In the bottommost circle of Hell, the water of its various
rivers collect in a huge pond and are frozen over by wind-chill
from the continuous beating of Lucifer's wings. Traitors are
sent there.
(And yes, Dante's _Commedia_ can be described as SF.)
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>In article <81ce761e-b8e0-4b54...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>art...@yahoo.com <art...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On Nov 6, 5:11�pm, Bill Snyder <bsny...@airmail.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 21:56:36 +0000 (UTC), Jesper Lauridsen
>>>
>>> <rorsc...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:
>>> >On 2009-11-05, Sean O'Hara <seanoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful netcat declared:
>>>
>>> >>> He also says, "My primary interest is in telling stories that are fun to
>>> >>> read and make people think.
>>>
>>> >> What a liar.
>>>
>>> >He said it was his interest - not that he had actually done it.
>>>
>>> "Two out of three ain't bad." �The story he tells in the quote
>>> made me think. �It made me think that they will be serving
>>> sno-cones at the ice hockey rink in hell on the day I buy a book
>>> by that asshole.
>>
>>Somewhere in SF, Hell actually does freeze over. Right?
>
>Yes. In the bottommost circle of Hell, the water of its various
>rivers collect in a huge pond and are frozen over by wind-chill
>from the continuous beating of Lucifer's wings. Traitors are
>sent there.
>
>(And yes, Dante's _Commedia_ can be described as SF.)
Yeah, but it freezes over in several other stories, as well, including
one I wrote (and which I still can't believe I sold) called "When Hell
Freezes Over."
Jim Lovejoy
news:Xns9CBB92B27BF...@69.16.186.50:
> d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote in
> news:slrnhf6ch...@gatekeeper.vic.com:
>
>> (Perhaps he's trying to get his new book off the SF shelves and
>> over onto the mainstream Fiction shelves, for whatever reason?)
>>
> I would think the reason would be obvious. It will likely sell better
> there.
>
> If for no other reason than becaue the people who browser there won't
> already know better.
>
That's unkind. Accurate, but unkind.
Michael Grosberg
> In article <4df7ab7f-0b31-4b68-845d-5310da7f3003
My best friend listened to the Sword of Truth series on audiobook. He
says it was a great book to fall asleep to; you could miss as many
minutes (even hours) as you want, and still come right back into the
narrative, having lost nothing of importance in the mean time. It was
about 50% recaps and characters telling other characters things the
reader already knows, anyway.
Michael Grosberg
> The Stabbing Tool of Factuality series (which was published
> by Tor) is overtly fantasy. Goodkind's latest novel, The Law of Nines,
> is a thriller and is from G.P. Putnam's Sons/Penguin Books [1]. While
> it is true his Tor books and his Penguin books are connected, he may
> feel it is useful to distinguish the two series.
I couldn't leave this ungoogled, and so, I present to you this excerpt
from the Amazon product description of _The Law of Nines_:
...Jax, who turns out to be from an alternate reality where evildoers
are attempting to seize control of her civilization, has traveled to
Nebraska to seek Alex's help in saving her people. In Jax's world,
magic takes the place of technology...
Thriller indeed.
Joyce Haslam
Somewhere in SF, an army type is leading a troop on a forced march.
He overhears conversation with various "Our hell is..."
contributions. James White?
Joyce.
--
"The spear in the Other's heart is in your own: you are he." - Surak
goingtowarbybus
> Terry Goodkind does not write fantasy:
>
> http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20030805003/tscript.htm
>
> "First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have
> important human themes. They have elements of romance, history,
> adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional.
> It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either."
> defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Terry Goodkind is nothing more than the writer's version of Steven
Segal,
right down to the middle-aged man ponytail. Has he claimed to work
black ops for the CIA yet?
Mad Hamish
<pen...@ukgateway.invalid> wrote:
><art...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 6, 5:11 pm, Bill Snyder <bsny...@airmail.net> wrote:
>
>> > "Two out of three ain't bad." The story he tells in the quote
>> > made me think. It made me think that they will be serving
>> > sno-cones at the ice hockey rink in hell on the day I buy a book
>> > by that asshole.
>
>> Somewhere in SF, Hell actually does freeze over. Right?
>
>Somewhere in SF, an army type is leading a troop on a forced march.
>He overhears conversation with various "Our hell is..."
>contributions. James White?
>
I think that might be the Weber/Ringo series March Upcountry etc.
--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au
Peter Huebner
d...@gatekeeper.vic.com says...
>
> Michael Grosberg <grosberg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >But honestly, what does Terry Goodkind have to offer to the
> >mainstream? As far as I know (never read his work but many friends did
> >so I have a clear impression), He DOES write genre fantasy which IS
> >all about magic and swordfighting and one-dimensional characters. At
> >least in the Sword of Truth series, which, by Jove, has an implement
> >of war in its name, a sure sign of genre if ever there was one.
>
> More precisely, he WOULD write genre fantasy, except he's slathered it in
> gore and fetishism and stuck Objectivism all over it like feathers. Which still
> doesn't make it mainstream anything, but does make it rather difficult to read.
> Dave
Difficult in the sense of "it's difficult to eat cold dog vomit"?
The gore and fetishism in "Wizard's First..." had me scratching my head
yet thinking 'ok, I'll let this pass as setting the stage for the
character's development - let's see where he runs with this'.
Well I found out soon enough - more gore and fetishism. Ah, ok, {retch}
thanks but no thanks.
-P.
Joyce Haslam
> Joyce Haslam <pen...@ukgateway.invalid> wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> > "Two out of three ain't bad." The story he tells in the
> >> > quote made me think. It made me think that they will be
> >> > serving sno-cones at the ice hockey rink in hell on the day
> >> > I buy a book by that asshole.
> >> Somewhere in SF, Hell actually does freeze over. Right?
> >Somewhere in SF, an army type is leading a troop on a forced
> >march. He overhears conversation with various "Our hell is..."
> >contributions. James White?
> I think that might be the Weber/Ringo series March Upcountry etc.
The series might well have such an episode, but I haven't read the
books.
William December Starr
Joyce Haslam <pen...@ukgateway.invalid> said:
> Somewhere in SF, an army type is leading a troop on a forced
> march. He overhears conversation with various "Our hell is..."
> contributions. James White?
Eddie: Well sure it was a war. And anybody that showed up was
gonna join Lem Lee in the Hell of Being Cut to Pieces.
Jack Burton: Hell of being what?
Eddie: Chinese have a lot of Hells.
and:
Jack Burton: [pointing to Chinese writing on elevator] What
does that say?
Wang Chi: Hell of Boiling Oil.
Jack Burton: You're kidding.
Wang Chi: Yeah, I am. It says Keep Out.
Oddly, I can't find the actual quote about the Hell of Upside-Down
Sinners anywhere.
-- wds
William December Starr
Michael Grosberg <grosberg...@gmail.com> said:
> I couldn't leave this ungoogled, and so, I present to you this excerpt
> from the Amazon product description of _The Law of Nines_:
>
> ...Jax, who turns out to be from an alternate reality where evildoers
> are attempting to seize control of her civilization, has traveled to
> Nebraska to seek Alex's help in saving her people. In Jax's world,
> ^^^^^^^^
> magic takes the place of technology...
Dumbest fantasy realm name ever.
-- wds
William December Starr
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>> Matt Hughes <arch...@googlemail.com> wrote in
>>
>>> Yes, but they're _important_ one-dimensional characters. Just
>>> like the people who read Ayn Rand without laughing.
>>
>> Heh. As if there's anyone who can do that who hasn't had a steel
>> rod thrust through their brains.
>
> I have not had a steel rod thrust through my brains, and I read
> Ayn Rand without laughing.
There's a rule exception for encountering Rand in one's teenage
years.
-- wds
William December Starr
"Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> said:
> This reminds me of the director who said "This isn't just a comedy.
> It's about relationships.", while discussing his Coneheads movie.
And then they killed him.
Hmm, I see that the IMDb listing for "Coneheads" (1983) says:
Writers:
Al Franken (writer) &
Tom Davis (writer)
If only Norm Coleman had known that, he probably could have
won that Minnesota senate election just by making it an issue.
-- wds
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
I'm not sure when it was; might have been in my early 20s.
Mike Schilling
I didn't laugh either. I was appalled, but that's not quite the same thing.
Walter Bushell
Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com> wrote:
> Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> > <re...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > I want to smack every writer who declaims their genre.
>
> > I believe you mean "disclaims."
>
> Yes, thank you, that's what I meant. Now I want to smack myself.
>
> > > I hope an agent told him to say that. I hope he doesn't actually
> > >believe it.
>
> > As it happens, I know his agent, and he would never, ever tell anyone
> > to say that. Goodkind's being a jerk all on his own.
>
> Well, that's one theory we can throw away, then. I don't understand
> what makes authors do this.
>
> ... ...
> Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com>
> Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/remus_shepherd/
He is one author I can strike from should I perhaps try list. Maybe he
just realizes how awful his work is.
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
Walter Bushell
David Johnston <da...@block.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:01:39 +0000 (UTC), Remus Shepherd
> <re...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> >Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> >> <re...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> > I want to smack every writer who declaims their genre.
> >
> >> I believe you mean "disclaims."
> >
> > Yes, thank you, that's what I meant. Now I want to smack myself.
> >
> >> > I hope an agent told him to say that. I hope he doesn't actually
> >> >believe it.
> >
> >> As it happens, I know his agent, and he would never, ever tell anyone
> >> to say that. Goodkind's being a jerk all on his own.
> >
> > Well, that's one theory we can throw away, then. I don't understand
> >what makes authors do this.
>
> In this case the answer is obvious. He aspires to be a latter day Ayn
> Rand, and Rands books aren't shelved with science fiction.
Won't he need a sex change?
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
@panix3.panix.com:
I'll grant you that, but it's genetically impossible to take anything
a teenager takes seriously, seriously, unless one is a teenager.
--
Terry Austin
Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. - David
Bilek
Yeah, I had Terry confused with Hannibal Lecter. - Mike Schilling
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:hdcti3$ham$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
The college years. All the hormonal and immature stupidity of a
teenager, with no parental restraint. Plus alcohol.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:proto-2259E7....@news.panix.com:
Perhaps he should change his goal to being a latter day Ann
Coulter, then.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
> In article
> <fa61ef5a-f9e2-4ba6...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.co
> m>, Michael Grosberg <grosberg...@gmail.com> said:
>
>> I couldn't leave this ungoogled, and so, I present to you this
>> excerpt from the Amazon product description of _The Law of
>> Nines_:
>>
>> ...Jax, who turns out to be from an alternate reality where
>> evildoers are attempting to seize control of her civilization,
>> has traveled to Nebraska to seek Alex's help in saving her
>> people. In Jax's world, ^^^^^^^^
>> magic takes the place of technology...
>
> Dumbest fantasy realm name ever.
>
Nebraska is the dumbest fantasy realm ever. I speak as a native.
Mike Schilling
> In article <hcseq4$aen$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> said:
>
>> This reminds me of the director who said "This isn't just a comedy.
>> It's about relationships.", while discussing his Coneheads movie.
>
> And then they killed him.
>
> Hmm, I see that the IMDb listing for "Coneheads" (1983) says:
>
> Writers:
>
> Al Franken (writer) &
> Tom Davis (writer)
That was an animation directed by our old friends Rankin and Bass. I
think I'm recalling the '93 live-action version written by Tom Davis,
Dan Aykriyd, and two people named Turner, directed by someone named
Steve Barron, who also has a Ninja Turtle movie on his resume.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in
> news:hdcti3$ham$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> William December Starr wrote:
>>> In article <hd2d7i$6lq$5...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
>>>
>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>>>> Matt Hughes <arch...@googlemail.com> wrote in
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, but they're _important_ one-dimensional characters. Just
>>>>>> like the people who read Ayn Rand without laughing.
>>>>> Heh. As if there's anyone who can do that who hasn't had a steel
>>>>> rod thrust through their brains.
>>>> I have not had a steel rod thrust through my brains, and I read
>>>> Ayn Rand without laughing.
>>> There's a rule exception for encountering Rand in one's teenage
>>> years.
>> I'm not sure when it was; might have been in my early 20s.
>>
> The college years. All the hormonal and immature stupidity of a
> teenager, with no parental restraint. Plus alcohol.
>
Well, no alcohol in my case. And some of my college years were spent in
my parents' house; LOTS cheaper that way.
It was my mom who gave me Rand's books, I know that.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> news:hdct3h$k3c$1...@panix3.panix.com:
>
>> In article
>> <fa61ef5a-f9e2-4ba6...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.co
>> m>, Michael Grosberg <grosberg...@gmail.com> said:
>>
>>> I couldn't leave this ungoogled, and so, I present to you this
>>> excerpt from the Amazon product description of _The Law of
>>> Nines_:
>>>
>>> ...Jax, who turns out to be from an alternate reality where
>>> evildoers are attempting to seize control of her civilization,
>>> has traveled to Nebraska to seek Alex's help in saving her
>>> people. In Jax's world, ^^^^^^^^
>>> magic takes the place of technology...
>> Dumbest fantasy realm name ever.
>>
> Nebraska is the dumbest fantasy realm ever. I speak as a native.
>
Were you born in Omaha too? I'm a native. My parents got us out of
there before I was old enough to remember it, though. (they then took us
to South Dakota. Big improvement there, eh?)
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>> wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in
>> news:hdct3h$k3c$1...@panix3.panix.com:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <fa61ef5a-f9e2-4ba6...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.
>>> co m>, Michael Grosberg <grosberg...@gmail.com> said:
>>>
>>>> I couldn't leave this ungoogled, and so, I present to you
>>>> this excerpt from the Amazon product description of _The Law
>>>> of Nines_:
>>>>
>>>> ...Jax, who turns out to be from an alternate reality where
>>>> evildoers are attempting to seize control of her
>>>> civilization, has traveled to Nebraska to seek Alex's help in
>>>> saving her people. In Jax's world, ^^^^^^^^
>>>> magic takes the place of technology...
>>> Dumbest fantasy realm name ever.
>>>
>> Nebraska is the dumbest fantasy realm ever. I speak as a
>> native.
>>
>
> Were you born in Omaha too?
I should have been so lucky. Antelope County, up north.
> I'm a native. My parents got us
> out of
> there before I was old enough to remember it, though.
You're lucky. I didn't escape until age 12.
> (they then
> took us to South Dakota. Big improvement there, eh?)
>
My sister live in (well, 20 miles outside of) Yankton for many
years. "There's always wind in South Dakota, because North Dakota
blows and Nebraska sucks."
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in
>> news:hdcti3$ham$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> William December Starr wrote:
>>>> In article <hd2d7i$6lq$5...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
>>>>
>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>>>>> Matt Hughes <arch...@googlemail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, but they're _important_ one-dimensional characters.
>>>>>>> Just like the people who read Ayn Rand without laughing.
>>>>>> Heh. As if there's anyone who can do that who hasn't had a
>>>>>> steel rod thrust through their brains.
>>>>> I have not had a steel rod thrust through my brains, and I
>>>>> read Ayn Rand without laughing.
>>>> There's a rule exception for encountering Rand in one's
>>>> teenage years.
>>> I'm not sure when it was; might have been in my early
>>> 20s.
>>>
>> The college years. All the hormonal and immature stupidity of a
>> teenager, with no parental restraint. Plus alcohol.
>>
>
> Well, no alcohol in my case.
So you were, in essence, a defective teenager?
> And some of my college years
> were spent in
> my parents' house; LOTS cheaper that way.
Geek.
>
> It was my mom who gave me Rand's books, I know that.
>
Well, our parents spend our first 18 years trying to keep us alive,
and the rest of our lives trying to kill us.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
trag
<tausti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote innews:proto-2259E7....@news.panix.com:
>
>
>
> > In article <rv24f5l52n2jf0mp4ga7knnt3vph2cn...@4ax.com>,
> > David Johnston <da...@block.net> wrote:
> >> In this case the answer is obvious. He aspires to be a latter
> >> day Ayn Rand, and Rands books aren't shelved with science
> >> fiction.
>
> > Won't he need a sex change?
>
> Perhaps he should change his goal to being a latter day Ann
> Coulter, then.
He's going to need better legs...
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
No, I think of myself as superior; it's the drunk ones who are defective.
>
>> And some of my college years
>> were spent in
>> my parents' house; LOTS cheaper that way.
>
> Geek.
That's geek GOD to you.
>> It was my mom who gave me Rand's books, I know that.
>>
> Well, our parents spend our first 18 years trying to keep us alive,
> and the rest of our lives trying to kill us.
>
I think it's more that they try to keep us IN the house the first 18,
and OUT the rest.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:9b527570-86ba-448f...@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.
com:
Nah, just a better makeup artist and a little photoshop.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Well, of course you'd say that.
>
>>
>>> And some of my college years
>>> were spent in
>>> my parents' house; LOTS cheaper that way.
>>
>> Geek.
>
> That's geek GOD to you.
Heh.
>
>>> It was my mom who gave me Rand's books, I know that.
>>>
>> Well, our parents spend our first 18 years trying to keep us
>> alive, and the rest of our lives trying to kill us.
>>
>
> I think it's more that they try to keep us IN the house the
> first 18,
> and OUT the rest.
>
That's just what they want you to believe.
Dimensional Traveler
presidents? :-P
--
7 Years - 2265 Experiments - 10 tons of explosives - 705 Myths
Myths - Will - Fall!
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:4afb2f44$0$1602$742e...@news.sonic.net:
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>> wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in
>>> news:hdct3h$k3c$1...@panix3.panix.com:
>>>> In article
>>>> <fa61ef5a-f9e2-4ba6...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups
>>>> .co m>, Michael Grosberg <grosberg...@gmail.com> said:
>>>>
>>>>> I couldn't leave this ungoogled, and so, I present to you
>>>>> this excerpt from the Amazon product description of _The Law
>>>>> of Nines_:
>>>>> ...Jax, who turns out to be from an alternate reality where
>>>>> evildoers are attempting to seize control of her
>>>>> civilization, has traveled to Nebraska to seek Alex's help
>>>>> in saving her people. In Jax's world, ^^^^^^^^
>>>>> magic takes the place of technology...
>>>> Dumbest fantasy realm name ever.
>>>>
>>> Nebraska is the dumbest fantasy realm ever. I speak as a
>>> native.
>>>
>>
>> Were you born in Omaha too? I'm a native. My parents got us
>> out of
>> there before I was old enough to remember it, though. (they
>> then took us to South Dakota. Big improvement there, eh?)
>>
> You didn't like growing up under the benign gaze of four great
> American presidents? :-P
>
The Team America jets make a lot of noise while you're trying to
sleep.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
David DeLaney
>trag <tr...@io.com> wrote in
>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <tausti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote
>>> >> In this case the answer is obvious. He aspires to be a
>>> >> latter day Ayn Rand, and Rands books aren't shelved with
>>> >> science fiction.
>>>
>>> > Won't he need a sex change?
>>>
>>> Perhaps he should change his goal to being a latter day Ann
>>> Coulter, then.
>>
>> He's going to need better legs...
>
>Nah, just a better makeup artist and a little photoshop.
He'll need a bigger Adam's apple too.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:slrnhfmm0...@gatekeeper.vic.com:
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>trag <tr...@io.com> wrote in
>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <tausti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote
>>>> > David Johnston <da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>> >> In this case the answer is obvious. He aspires to be a
>>>> >> latter day Ayn Rand, and Rands books aren't shelved with
>>>> >> science fiction.
>>>>
>>>> > Won't he need a sex change?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps he should change his goal to being a latter day Ann
>>>> Coulter, then.
>>>
>>> He's going to need better legs...
>>
>>Nah, just a better makeup artist and a little photoshop.
>
> He'll need a bigger Adam's apple too.
>
I'll bet he's already familiar with latex.
--
Terry Austin
Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. - David
Bilek
Yeah, I had Terry confused with Hannibal Lecter. - Mike Schilling
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Chuk Goodin
>>> > "First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have
>>> > important human themes. They have elements of romance, history,
>>> > adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional.
>>> > It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either."
>>>
>>> � �I want to smack every writer who declaims their genre.
>>>
>>> � �I hope an agent told him to say that. �I hope he doesn't actually
>>> believe it.
>>>
>>> ... � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �...
>>> Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com>
>>> � �Journal: �http://www.livejournal.com/users/remus_shepherd/
>>
>>world, who aim for a mainstream readership. I don't care if a writer
>>fibs here and there to attract readers who would otherwise shun his
>>books. But honestly, what does Terry Goodkind have to offer to the
>>mainstream? As far as I know (never read his work but many friends did
>>so I have a clear impression), He DOES write genre fantasy which IS
>>all about magic and swordfighting and one-dimensional characters. At
>>least in the Sword of Truth series, which, by Jove, has an implement
>>of war in its name, a sure sign of genre if ever there was one.
>
> The Stabbing Tool of Factuality series (which was published
>by Tor) is overtly fantasy. Goodkind's latest novel, The Law of Nines,
>is a thriller and is from G.P. Putnam's Sons/Penguin Books [1]. While
>it is true his Tor books and his Penguin books are connected, he may
>feel it is useful to distinguish the two series.
I'm reading THE LAW OF NINES now. It is a total fantasy novel no matter
what the author and publishers might say. Also, I wish this guy could put
some decent sentences together, like Dan Brown.
--
chuk
David DeLaney
>jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>> The Stabbing Tool of Factuality series (which was published
>>by Tor) is overtly fantasy. Goodkind's latest novel, The Law of Nines,
>>is a thriller and is from G.P. Putnam's Sons/Penguin Books [1]. While
>>it is true his Tor books and his Penguin books are connected, he may
>>feel it is useful to distinguish the two series.
>
>I'm reading THE LAW OF NINES now. It is a total fantasy novel no matter
>what the author and publishers might say. Also, I wish this guy could put
>some decent sentences together, like Dan Brown.
oh BURN.
Dave "I can feel the backhand from here. ow." DeLaney
Michael Stemper
He tried a very similar tactic. He unearthed the sordid fact that,
when Franken was a writer for _Saturday Night_, he once proposed
a skit that was in poor taste.
People around here seemed to take it in stride.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him talk like Mr. Ed
by rubbing peanut butter on his gums.
rochrist
Are you kidding? She could body double for Skelator these days!
rochrist
> On Nov 4, 8:53 am, jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>> Terry Goodkind does not write fantasy:
>>
>> http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20030805003/tscript.htm
>>
>> "First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have
>> important human themes. They have elements of romance, history,
>> adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional.
>> It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either."
>> defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
>
>
> Terry Goodkind is nothing more than the writer's version of Steven
> Segal,
> right down to the middle-aged man ponytail. Has he claimed to work
> black ops for the CIA yet?
Nah. At least Steen Seagal used to actually be -good- at the fighting
stuff. (before he got old)
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:qWTOm.22064$ET3....@newsfe17.iad:
According to Hollywood, that's the hottest look EVAR for women. So
long as she wipes the vomit off her chin after purging.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Mike Schilling
But she's got much worse bone structure.