King of Aragon in "Amazement of the World"
Michael Stemper
stories), there's an off-hand reference to an ex-monk being made king
of Aragon against his will in the late 16th century.
Did such an event actually happen? If so, would it also be a potential
inspiration for the Deryni Restoration portrayed in Kurtz's _Camber of
Culdi_?
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Michael F. Stemper
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Joseph Nebus
>In Poul Anderson's "The Amazement of the World" (one of the Time Patrol
>stories), there's an off-hand reference to an ex-monk being made king
>of Aragon against his will in the late 16th century.
>Did such an event actually happen? If so, would it also be a potential
>inspiration for the Deryni Restoration portrayed in Kurtz's _Camber of
>Culdi_?
The late 16th century? By then it was Hapsburgs, wasn't it?
Ramiro II, in the middle 12th century, had been a monk and was rushed
into the throne of Aragon when his brother died, but I don't know how
much of his taking the throne was against his will (so far as that can
be defined when he may have been acting to save the family's legacy):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramiro_II_of_Aragon
He kind of stepped down when he had the chance, though, which
supports the idea that he only stuck around because everybody else who
could hold the title was dead.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dorothy J Heydt
Michael Stemper <mste...@siemens-emis.com> wrote:
>In Poul Anderson's "The Amazement of the World" (one of the Time Patrol
>stories), there's an off-hand reference to an ex-monk being made king
>of Aragon against his will in the late 16th century.
>
>Did such an event actually happen? If so, would it also be a potential
>inspiration for the Deryni Restoration portrayed in Kurtz's _Camber of
>Culdi_?
I don't know about Aragon. But such things did happen. The
pattern usually went as follows:
King dies, leaving two (or more) sons.
One son claims the throne and shoves his brother(s) into
monasteries where they won't be any competition.
New king dies without leaving sons of his own.
Surviving brother is dragged out of monastery and crowned:
sometimes willingly, sometimes not.
This was likelier to happen in the early period when
primogeniture hadn't been established and a council of electors
decided which member of the royal family should become king.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
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Szymon Sokół
> In Poul Anderson's "The Amazement of the World" (one of the Time Patrol
> stories), there's an off-hand reference to an ex-monk being made king
> of Aragon against his will in the late 16th century.
>
> Did such an event actually happen?
I don't think so - during the 16th century Aragon was already in the union
with Castille (started by the marriage of Isabella and Ferdinand, which,
indeed, inspired Lois McMaster Bujold...), so the king of Aragon was the
king of Spain - and that was Philip II for the most of the second half of
that century, and his son Philip III since 1598.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_II_of_Spain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_III_of_Spain
AFAIK neither of them was an ex-monk nor made king against his will...
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Michael Stemper
>mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) writes:
>>In Poul Anderson's "The Amazement of the World" (one of the Time Patrol
>>stories), there's an off-hand reference to an ex-monk being made king
>>of Aragon against his will in the late 16th century.
>
>>Did such an event actually happen? If so, would it also be a potential
>>inspiration for the Deryni Restoration portrayed in Kurtz's _Camber of
>>Culdi_?
>
> The late 16th century? By then it was Hapsburgs, wasn't it?
>Ramiro II, in the middle 12th century, had been a monk and was rushed
>into the throne of Aragon when his brother died,
Sorry. After you and others raised this question, I did some Googling
on other referents and discovered that the date in the story was 1137
rather than 1597. That being the case, it sounds like Ramiro II would
be the monk in question.
Usenet's amazing. You can ask the wrong question and still get the
right answer. Have we ever had a YASID where everything that the OP
supplied was incorrect, but we still got the story right?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramiro_II_of_Aragon
Thanks for the link.
--
Michael F. Stemper
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Franco
> In article <hgg1eo$v5...@news.eternal-september.org>,
King Mongkut of Thailand (1851-68) was a Buddhist monk for around 27
years before becoming king when his brother, the previous king, died.
I believe his predecesor may have had sons, but Mongkut may have
become king because he was considered more able to resist the British
and French colonial powers.
He was the king played by Yul Brynner in the King and I. He was a
great king and scholar and much more serious than as portrayed in the
movie.
Howard Brazee
Heydt) wrote:
>One son claims the throne and shoves his brother(s) into
>monasteries where they won't be any competition.
>
>New king dies without leaving sons of his own.
>
>Surviving brother is dragged out of monastery and crowned:
>sometimes willingly, sometimes not.
>
>This was likelier to happen in the early period when
>primogeniture hadn't been established and a council of electors
>decided which member of the royal family should become king.
A variation of this is Claudius.
--
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than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Mike Schilling
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:01:11 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
>
>> One son claims the throne and shoves his brother(s) into
>> monasteries where they won't be any competition.
>>
>> New king dies without leaving sons of his own.
>>
>> Surviving brother is dragged out of monastery and crowned:
>> sometimes willingly, sometimes not.
>>
>> This was likelier to happen in the early period when
>> primogeniture hadn't been established and a council of electors
>> decided which member of the royal family should become king.
>
> A variation of this is Claudius.
Not that there were many members of the imperial family left to choose from
after Caligula's death.
Gene Wirchenko
[snip]
> He kind of stepped down when he had the chance, though, which
>supports the idea that he only stuck around because everybody else who
>could hold the title was dead.
Maybe, that was so after, but the wikipedia article says: "He
fought off two other claimants to the throne, one, Pedro de Atar�s,
descended from an illegitimate brother of king Sancho Ram�rez, and the
other, Alfonso VII, king of Castile."
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Joseph Nebus
>Usenet's amazing. You can ask the wrong question and still get the
>right answer. Have we ever had a YASID where everything that the OP
>supplied was incorrect, but we still got the story right?
Yes; it was Ray Bradbury's ``Kaleidoscope''.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Howard Brazee
<mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> This was likelier to happen in the early period when
>>> primogeniture hadn't been established and a council of electors
>>> decided which member of the royal family should become king.
>>
>> A variation of this is Claudius.
>
>Not that there were many members of the imperial family left to choose from
>after Caligula's death.
Nope. Except in real life, I don't find people that anxious to find
some unknown heir to put on the throne. In this case it was foreign
soldiers who didn't want the politials to have a chance to pick
someone with power.
David DeLaney
>mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) writes:
>>Usenet's amazing. You can ask the wrong question and still get the
>>right answer. Have we ever had a YASID where everything that the OP
>>supplied was incorrect, but we still got the story right?
>
> Yes; it was Ray Bradbury's ``Kaleidoscope''.
... does the above count as a meta-example of itself? Just checking.
Dave
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