Re: Things we remember...
Robert Carnegie
> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared:
> > In article <mike-8747B7.0...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
> >
> >> My understanding is that the card agreement actually *forbids* asking
> >> for ID, for whatever reason.
> >
> > My actual credit card has my face on it.
>
> So the person who steals it says, "Oh, its my mom's card." You think
> the clerk's going to make a big deal out of it?
Uh, YES?
Anyway, how does he know they didn't steal the card from their mom?
People do. And this is where they should be stopped.
I heard of some guy - British? - who chose to have his own credit
record altered to say "You have to take his fingerprints." He carries
a fingerprint kit too, just so he can take his own prints and hand
them over at checkouts. I don't recall whether this has "paid off",
so to speak.
Dimensional Traveler
And how exactly does he expect the _store_ to compare fingerprints?
--
7 Years - 2265 Experiments - 10 tons of explosives - 705 Myths
Myths - Will - Fall!
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <4af6803d$0$1598$742e...@news.sonic.net>):
He doesn't. He expects the card thief to refuse to provide the fingerprints.
Alternatively, if the card thief _does_ provide the prints, once there's a
notification of the theft the cops now have the thief's prints.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
Robert Carnegie
If it's not the right guy, he doesn't have his own fingerprint kit.
Until recently I suppose you could use the ink source from many modern
cash registers that print a receipt, but nowadays it's probably a no-
ink thermal printer. But I suppose you can just have them press their
fingers on the store window, leave prints that way; put a Post-It note
next to that to say don't clean the window for a while...
The police may have the same fingerprints in a file with the print
owner's address. Otherwise it isn't necessarily helpful.
Now as to details... hmm.
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/3095872.stm>
from some years ago describes stores asking for prints from customers
- pretty much requiring them, really.
Sean O'Hara
declared:
> Sean O'Hara wrote:
>> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared:
>>> In article <mike-8747B7.0...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My understanding is that the card agreement actually *forbids* asking
>>>> for ID, for whatever reason.
>>> My actual credit card has my face on it.
>> So the person who steals it says, "Oh, its my mom's card." You think
>> the clerk's going to make a big deal out of it?
>
> Uh, YES?
>
Try it. They don't. Hell, most places the clerk never even touches
the card.
--
Sean O'Hara <http://www.diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com>
New audio book: As Long as You Wish by John O'Keefe
<http://librivox.org/short-science-fiction-collection-010/>
Mike Ash
Sean O'Hara <sean...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Robert Carnegie
> declared:
> > Sean O'Hara wrote:
> >> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared:
> >>> In article <mike-8747B7.0...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >>> Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> My understanding is that the card agreement actually *forbids* asking
> >>>> for ID, for whatever reason.
> >>> My actual credit card has my face on it.
> >> So the person who steals it says, "Oh, its my mom's card." You think
> >> the clerk's going to make a big deal out of it?
> >
> > Uh, YES?
>
> Try it. They don't. Hell, most places the clerk never even touches
> the card.
At the places I shop, the card terminals always say "hand the card to
the cashier" after I do my side of things.
Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never asked to
see it.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Robert Carnegie
> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Robert Carnegie
> declared:
> > Sean O'Hara wrote:
> >> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared:
> >>> In article <mike-8747B7.0...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >>> Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> My understanding is that the card agreement actually *forbids* asking
> >>>> for ID, for whatever reason.
> >>> My actual credit card has my face on it.
> >> So the person who steals it says, "Oh, its my mom's card." You think
> >> the clerk's going to make a big deal out of it?
> >
> > Uh, YES?
>
> Try it. They don't. Hell, most places the clerk never even touches
> the card.
Well, I'll admit the UK now uses "chip and PIN" card function in most
places - at least where I use cards. Often this does mean the card
isn't out of my hands - I load it in a terminal device myself. Also
any loss where the PIN was used was customer's liability, but I think
they have just changed that back.
One hack is that apparently regulations require the magnetic data
stripe still carries the same data, less securely. That can be copied
and then used somewhere where they don't have chip cards.
Michael Stemper
>In article <7lr13bF...@mid.individual.net>, Sean O'Hara <sean...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Try it. They don't. Hell, most places the clerk never even touches
>> the card.
>
>At the places I shop, the card terminals always say "hand the card to
>the cashier" after I do my side of things.
I haven't figured this one out. Gas stations around here started
having people (paying inside) scan their own cards about two years
back. I asked a clerk (not that they're necessarily an authority,
just someone to ask) why I had to take over this task that used to
be theirs, and they said that it was for my security.
But, then the machine is set up to tell you to hand them your card
anyway, so where's the security?
>Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never asked to
>see it.
Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the assumption
that it's not.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.
erilar
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
It strikes me as more insecure than ever. There's no way left to keep
someone from using a stolen card, with this system. I don't recall
being asked for a look at my card by an employee since I've had to feed
it through myself, but it may have happened once or twice.
--
Erilar, biblioholic
bib-li-o-hol-ism [<Gr biblion] n. [BIBLIO + HOLISM] books, of books:
habitual longing to purchase, read, store, admire, and consume books in excess.
Kurt Busiek
Stemper) said:
> In article <mike-AB9C84.1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> writes:
>> In article <7lr13bF...@mid.individual.net>, Sean O'Hara
>> <sean...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Try it. They don't. Hell, most places the clerk never even touches
>>> the card.
>>
>> At the places I shop, the card terminals always say "hand the card to
>> the cashier" after I do my side of things.
>
> I haven't figured this one out. Gas stations around here started
> having people (paying inside) scan their own cards about two years
> back. I asked a clerk (not that they're necessarily an authority,
> just someone to ask) why I had to take over this task that used to
> be theirs, and they said that it was for my security.
>
> But, then the machine is set up to tell you to hand them your card
> anyway, so where's the security?
Presumably, if they're not running a charge slip, but only checking ID,
then there's no paper record for them to steal.
>> Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never asked to
>> see it.
>
> Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the assumption
> that it's not.
If any of the self-serve gas pumps I've used have told me to show my
card to the attendant, I haven't noticed it.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Derek Lyons
>It strikes me as more insecure than ever. There's no way left to keep
>someone from using a stolen card, with this system.
That's controlled by the central computers - not handing your card to
clerk increases security because it avoids the risk of having your
numbers stolen by the clerk. (A large source of credit card fraud.)
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Sean O'Hara
declared:
He's talking about going inside to pay for gas.
Dimensional Traveler
> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Kurt Busiek declared:
>> On 2009-11-10 10:18:39 -0800, mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael
>> Stemper) said:
>>
>>> In article <mike-AB9C84.1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> writes:
>>
>>>> Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never
>>>> asked to
>>>> see it.
>>>
>>> Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the assumption
>>> that it's not.
>>
>> If any of the self-serve gas pumps I've used have told me to show my
>> card to the attendant, I haven't noticed it.
>>
>
> He's talking about going inside to pay for gas.
>
Sean O'Hara
Traveler declared:
> Sean O'Hara wrote:
>>
>>> If any of the self-serve gas pumps I've used have told me to show my
>>> card to the attendant, I haven't noticed it.
>>
>> He's talking about going inside to pay for gas.
>>
> Who does that anymore?
>
People who want to buy something in the station, particularly if the
station has a minimum amount for credit transactions.
David DeLaney
>
>Who does that anymore?
I do. When I'm also going to put a refill on coffee, or a Sunday newspaper,
on the same purchase. Or when I fall outside the time limits noted on the
sticker on the pump. Or other reasons. (Sometimes I'd -rather- have paid at
the pump, but it's not always possible.)
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
erilar
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
> Sean O'Hara wrote:
> > In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Kurt Busiek declared:
> >> On 2009-11-10 10:18:39 -0800, mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael
> >> Stemper) said:
> >>
> >>> In article <mike-AB9C84.1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >>> Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> writes:
> >>
> >>>> Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never
> >>>> asked to
> >>>> see it.
> >>>
> >>> Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the assumption
> >>> that it's not.
> >>
> >> If any of the self-serve gas pumps I've used have told me to show my
> >> card to the attendant, I haven't noticed it.
> >>
> >
> > He's talking about going inside to pay for gas.
> >
> Who does that anymore?
I do. I don't like to stick my card in an anonymous machine, for one
thing. And on long trips I need to go inside for another reason as well.
hughes
erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> In article <4afc939b$0$1644$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > Sean O'Hara wrote:
> > > In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Kurt Busiek declared:
> > >> On 2009-11-10 10:18:39 -0800, mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael
> > >> Stemper) said:
> > >>
> > >>> In article <mike-AB9C84.1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > >>> Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> writes:
> > >>
> > >>>> Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never
> > >>>> asked to
> > >>>> see it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the assumption
> > >>> that it's not.
> > >>
> > >> If any of the self-serve gas pumps I've used have told me to show my
> > >> card to the attendant, I haven't noticed it.
> > >>
> > >
> > > He's talking about going inside to pay for gas.
> > >
> > Who does that anymore?
>
> I do. I don't like to stick my card in an anonymous machine, for one
> thing. And on long trips I need to go inside for another reason as well.
And the machine inside is less anonymous in what way?
David McMillan
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> Sean O'Hara wrote:
>>> He's talking about going inside to pay for gas.
>> Who does that anymore?
>
> I do. When I'm also going to put a refill on coffee, or a Sunday newspaper,
> on the same purchase. Or when I fall outside the time limits noted on the
> sticker on the pump. Or other reasons. (Sometimes I'd -rather- have paid at
> the pump, but it's not always possible.)
I'm reminded of a gas station I stopped into in a section of Kansas
City that might not have been the best part of town (I was new in town)
on a Sunday afternoon, only to find that the "24hr" part of the
station's sign apparently meant locking the doors and barring the
windows but leaving the credit-card-accepting self-serve pumps running.
Since I was on fumes, I crossed my fingers and filled up. No
problems. Not sure what I would have done if there *had* been....
I'm also reminded of a story from the New Orleans evacuation before
Katrina. A reporter related coming across a family stranded in a
"closed" gas station. The station owners had left the pumps running
(civic service, or carelessness?), but the family only had cash -- no
credit cards. The reporter got them both fill-ups on his card (don't
recall if he accepted repayment) and both parties took off for drier
pastures.
Then there's places like the Costco or Sam's Club gas stations (nothing
but pumps and a rain shelter), which don't take anything except debit
cards (and maybe AmEx?) -- no cash, no Visa/Master/whatever. And the
attendant is only there to handle problems that crop up.
trag
> Then there's places like the Costco or Sam's Club gas stations (nothing
> but pumps and a rain shelter), which don't take anything except debit
> cards (and maybe AmEx?) -- no cash, no Visa/Master/whatever. And the
> attendant is only there to handle problems that crop up.
The Sam's Club here takes Visa credit cards. You must also have a
membership card. The CostCo is restrictive as you list.
Cryptoengineer
In some countries (Japan?) there are 'ghost' stations, which are
entirely unmanned. I don't know if that would fly in the US, from a
safety and liability standpoint.
pt
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
There's (at least) one in Charleston SC
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Garrett Wollman
Cryptoengineer <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>In some countries (Japan?) there are 'ghost' [gas] stations, which are
>entirely unmanned. I don't know if that would fly in the US, from a
>safety and liability standpoint.
Plenty of them out in farm country.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Derek Lyons
There's one about a mile or so from me (near Seattle) as the crow
flies.
Wayne Throop
::: entirely unmanned. I don't know if that would fly in the US, from a
::: safety and liability standpoint.
:: There's (at least) one in Charleston SC
: There's one about a mile or so from me (near Seattle) as the crow
: flies.
Huh. Googling aout a bit is unrewarding (at least to my level of
rudimentary google-fu). There's "ifuelisave.com", for which google finds
several news articles and writeups; a chain of unmanned gas stations.
But the interest semed to peak somewhere in 2004 or 2006, and I don't see
much mention of it recently. The ifuelisave.com site itself seems
pretty much a remnant (the "locate one" page is empty, demo videos all
have broken links, etc, etc.
I haven't encountered any totally unmanned (uncrewed?) gas stations my
own self, though I'd expect it'd be workable, and the above seems to
establish that the liability issue can be handled (unless that's why
they failed...).
Certainly in my *use* of them, they might just as *well* have been
totally uncrewed. I hadn't so much as seen the attendant in any
of them for the two years before last week, and last week I just needed
to use a restroom and buy a soder, breaking the streak... and I don't
really expect to see an attendant for the *next* two years or more,
in foreseeable circumstances.
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
erilar
hughes <hug...@illinois.edu> wrote:
There's a live person to visit with, for one thing. And there are other
reasons for going inside.
Jesper Lauridsen
>
> I'm reminded of a gas station I stopped into in a section of Kansas
> City that might not have been the best part of town (I was new in town)
> on a Sunday afternoon, only to find that the "24hr" part of the
> station's sign apparently meant locking the doors and barring the
> windows but leaving the credit-card-accepting self-serve pumps running.
> Since I was on fumes, I crossed my fingers and filled up. No
> problems. Not sure what I would have done if there *had* been....
Huh. When I had a car I did pretty much all my refueling at unmanned
stations. What were the crossed fingers for?
Chuk Goodin
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Who does that anymore?
In British Columbia there is a law that you have to pre-pay for gas. At
one gas station I go to, this means I have to go inside, sometimes twice.
--
chuk
Gene Wirchenko
wrote:
I always wash my hands after pumping gas, so I have to anyway.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
John F. Eldredge
> Then there's places like the Costco or Sam's Club gas stations
(nothing
> but pumps and a rain shelter), which don't take anything except debit
> cards (and maybe AmEx?) -- no cash, no Visa/Master/whatever. And the
> attendant is only there to handle problems that crop up.
I buy a lot of my gasoline at Sam's Club, due to the discounts. However,
it is annoying that, despite taking only debit cards (which, by the way,
may be Visa or MasterCard), they only sell gas during the hours that the
attendant is on duty, which is to say, during the hours that the store is
open. Since the attendant never actually _does_ anything, other than
occasionally sweep up a little spilled trash, I presume that this is
mainly so that the attendant can call the fire department if an accident
occurs.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria