Jordan Chat on AOL #2
Aaron Bergman
editorial comments we were making, although they were rather funny. We
were answering many of the questions before he did. There were over 200
people in the auditorium at one point.
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OnlineHost : Your host for tonight is CSEmcee1 (Norma II).
OnlineHost : Robert Jordan is a lifelong resident of Charleston,
OnlineHost : SC who served two tours of duty in Vietnam and
OnlineHost : received a degree in physics from The Citadel, the
OnlineHost : military college of South Carolina.
OnlineHost : .
OnlineHost : When a injury sidelined him from a career as a
OnlineHost : nuclear engineer for the Navy more than a dozen
OnlineHost : years ago, he became a voracious reader, and the
OnlineHost : frustration with the quality of fiction he was
OnlineHost : reading drove him to begin writing himself.
OnlineHost : .
OnlineHost : An avid history buff, Jordan is particularly
CSEmcee1 : interested in
OnlineHost : military history, and Charleston's past. He and his
wife live in
OnlineHost : the Old HistoricDistrict of Charleston. The
outdoorsman enjoys
OnlineHost : hunting, fishing, and sailing, and the indoor
OnlineHost : games of poker, chess and pool.
OnlineHost : .
OnlineHost : Why are Jordan's books so popular? Look at the
OnlineHost : phenomenon of epic fantasy itself. When Tolkien's
OnlineHost : novels burst on the scene in the '60s, the fantasy
OnlineHost : genre was virtually unheard of. But his stories of
OnlineHost : hobbits and dark evils caught on. Without question
OnlineHost : THE LORD OF THE RINGS is nothing less than
OnlineHost : amazing.
OnlineHost : .
OnlineHost : Countless readers fell in love with the chronicles
OnlineHost : of Tolkien's Middle Earth, and responded to it on
OnlineHost : a level that transcends mere entertainment. Then
OnlineHost : came Jordan. And with him, another popular
OnlineHost : cultural phenomenon - THE WHEEL OF TIME!
OnlineHost : .
OnlineHost : Lest his fans despair, he wants them to know that
OnlineHost : even when he's on the road during is current tour,
OnlineHost : he is hard at work on his seventh (yet untitled)
OnlineHost : volume of THE WHEEL OF TIME. America Online is
OnlineHost : pleased to present perhaps the most-discussed
OnlineHost : author on the Internet, Robert Jordan!
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CSEmcee1 : Good evening and welcome to the Globe, Mr Jordan!
RJordan2 : Good evening and thank you for having me!
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CSEmcee1 : We have some questions from the audience if you are
ready!
Question : How many books will the Wheel of Time series
ultimately be?
RJordan2 : As many as it takes to reach the last scene, which
has been in my head since the very...
RJordan2 : beginning.
RJordan2 : And not a book more.
RJordan2 : Sorry.
Question : Whats it like to write a protagonist who frankly is
going batty? How do you balance
Question : likability with fading competance? GA
RJordan2 : I just try to do it in the book the way I do it in
real life.
Comment : This is a great experience
Question : Mr. Jordan, are there any fantasy writers, beside
yourself, that interest you?
RJordan2 : It's a moderately long list, but ... Tad Williams,
Robert Holdstock, Ray Feist, Janny...
RJordan2 : Wurts, Barry Hughart, C. S. Friedman, and really
that's just the beginning, the...
RJordan2 : ones that come off the top of my head.
OnlineHost : Use Interact, write question, then select Ask a
Question!
Question : How soon can we expect The Lord of Chaos to come out
in paperback?
RJordan2 : About a year.
Question : What was the primary driving force behind your world
building (other than making lots of
Question : money)?
RJordan2 : The driving force was creating a world populated by
cultures that seemed real, but alien--
RJordan2 : alien as in other.
Question : Who is your favorite of the Wheel characters
RJordan2 : The one I'm writing at the moment, whichever one that
happens to be.
Question : What went on with Egwene, Mat and Fain in the dungeon
of The Great Hunt?
RJordan2 : Most of it is fairly obvious, I would think. For the
rest, you'll have to read and find..
RJordan2 : out.
Comment : interesting parralels between your life and Heinlein
who also turned to writing ater
Comment : illness forced him from a military career
Question : Mr. Jordan, how did you becme interested in writing??
RJordan2 : I was reading Mark Twain. I was five years old, and
I wanted to make stories like that.
Question : how many books will there be in WOT
RJordan2 : Several more. I did answer this earlier.
Question : Who if any are mr. jordan's favorite authors?
RJordan2 : Tad Williams, Robert Holdstock, Ray Feist, Janny
Wurts, C. S. Friedman, Barry...
RJordan2 : Hughart, and we'll cut it off there before it gets
too long.
Question : How many books are in your current series?
RJordan2 : I assume the last question meant in the fantasy
genre, because my favorite authors...
RJordan2 : overall are Mark Twain, Charles Dickens, and Jane
Austin.
RJordan2 : Austen. Sorry, Jane.
Question : What other fields of literature are you interested
in?
RJordan2 : Perhaps we should put "how many books" on the front
door of the conference. Several...
RJordan2 : more. Other fields of literature: Just about
everything except gothic novels and nurse...
RJordan2 : stories.
Question : where did you get the concept for Perrin?
RJordan2 : Out of my head.
Question : Do you plan on any computer or video games based on
the WoT?
RJordan2 : That really depends on the companies that manufacture
such things. There has been...
RJordan2 : some interest. We will see what we will see.
OnlineHost : There will be a schedule listed at the end of the
program.
Question : How long did it take you to come up with the world
for the Wheel of Time?
RJordan2 : About ten to twelve years.
Question : Are you going to write about the age of Legends?
RJordan2 : No.
Question : When will your next book be out?
RJordan2 : In a year, if everything goes all right.
Question : how do wise ones get gaishan? (they don't fight,
right?)
RJordan2 : They can be traded, though. Besides which, there are
other ways, if you read LoC, to...
RJordan2 : become gai'shain.
Question : What was your inspiration for this series? Anything
specific?
RJordan2 : For First Cause: I suppose the question of what it
would really be like to be tapped on...
RJordan2 : the shoulder and told that you were born to be the
savior of mankind. Beyond that, ...
RJordan2 : two or three hundred things.
Question : Could Aviendha be pregnant...enquiring minds want to
know!
RJordan2 : Enquiring minds can read and find out.
Question : Have you written any books previous to the Wheel of
Time set?
RJordan2 : Yes.
Question : How did you initially break into fantasy writing? It
seems like you've come from no where
Question : to suddenly be on top of the market.
RJordan2 : I'm just another twenty-year overnight success.
Question : I lived in Chas during Hugo--has that influenced you
or the story in any way?
RJordan2 : I don't think your presence influenced me at all! As
for the storm, it didn't influence..
RJordan2 : me either, except that I have noticed sometimes, when
the wind gets high, I climb up...
RJordan2 : on the roof for no particular reason.
Question : You have written in many Genre, but fantasy seems to
be your most profilerant (sp?). The
Question : Conan and WOT are the most popoular, it would seem.
What do you attribute this too?
RJordan2 : Good genes.
Question : have you ever thought about writing about a renegade
hacker?
RJordan2 : No, and remember, I own guns.
Question : I was wondering if you could comment on some of the
clues that Randland (as we call it)
Question : seems to be written as a future earth..
RJordan2 : Time is a wheel. If you look in one direction, you
are looking at the past. If you...
RJordan2 : just turn around and look in the other direction, you
are looking at the future. The...
RJordan2 : books are set in our future _and_ in our past,
depending on which way you look.
Question : Your perspective on Shannon Miller
RJordan2 : Do you mean Shannon Faulkner?
[no response]
Question : Mr. Jordan, who is your favorite character in WOT?
Who do you relate to most as a person?
RJordan2 : My favorite character, and the one I relate to most,
is the one about whom I am writing...
RJordan2 : at whichever moment I happen to be writing.
Question : Are your Arthurian legend parallels intended or were
they written in and only realized
Question : afterwards
RJordan2 : They were intended.
Question : Are you going to continue writing fantasy after the
WoT and Shipwreck series are over?
RJordan2 : Yes.
Comment : Mr. Jordan, your work is purely exceptional.
Question : Do you do much research once you begin writing? What
type of things do you research?
RJordan2 : Yes, because I need to research things like the
details of exactly how a...
RJordan2 : blacksmith works. For example.
Question : So how many books do you THINK are left in the
series, at this point?
RJordan2 : As many as it takes to reach the end, and not one
more.
Question : Do you ever let compassion for a character affect or
influence plot development?
RJordan2 : Never.
Question : Are the men and women ever going to understand each
other? I don't see the characters
Question : growing much that way...
RJordan2 : They're going to try. We'll see how far they get.
I've spent forty-odd years trying...
RJordan2 : myself, and I'm not certain how far I've gotten.
Question : When did you first develop the idea for WOT? How
long have you been working on it before
Question : it was accepted by a publisher?
horse. :D
RJordan2 : The very first notion came to me nearly twenty years
ago; I spent ten or twelve years...
RJordan2 : mulling it over, told my then-publisher about it, and
he offered me a contract.
Question : why myrelle so heartless. she nearly let lan die...
why?
RJordan2 : She's dealing with a man capable of taking her head
off before even she could blink ...
RJordan2 : and a man who's in a mental state where she can't be
sure he won't.
Question : Are you considering cronicling the latter part of the
Age of Legends?
RJordan2 : No.
Comment : I was pleased to see LOC appearing as a new
bestseller in today's USA Today bestsellers
Comment : list.
Question : Mr. Jordan, I think your series is wonderful! Do you
have any plans for a new series?
RJordan2 : Thank you.
RJordan2 : New series: yes, but not until the Wheel is done.
Question : Your style of writing is so simple, yet so complex
that it is a genre all it's own.
Question : Will Moiraine come back from the dead since Lanfear
and Asmodean apparently have?
RJordan2 : Read and find out -- in fact, I _really_ suggest you
read and find out.
Question : You've lived in Charleston all your life. Is there
anything here that's affected your
Question : novels? (rjh, west ashley)
RJordan2 : Trying to call them "palmetto bugs" so as not to
terrify the tourists has nearly driven...
RJordan2 : me batty. That's about it.
Question : Not that I'm complaining, but could you write the
books faster? I'm dying here.
RJordan2 : No, I can't write the bloody things any faster, and
if I find out where you live, I will..
RJordan2 : send my friends Little Guido and and Harry the Nail
around to talk to you.
Question : Is Aran'gar really Lanfear? If she is, how did she
come back?
RJordan2 : Read And Find Out.
Question : Exactly how tall is Rand?
RJordan2 : Six foot five to six foot six.
Question : Your plots are so detailed and intricate- do you ever
get confused about what should
Question : happen when?
RJordan2 : No.
Question : Why was Perrin not in the Fires of Heaven?
RJordan2 : He had a lot of things to do back home, and they were
all pretty boring.
Question : Mr. Jordan, Are you aware of the interest that has
risen on thr internet and here on AOL
Question : about your books?
RJordan2 : Yes.
Question : What is Padan Fain's overall role in the Wheel Of
Time (besides hating Rand with a passion)
RJordan2 : Read and find out ... except you should be able to
figure out most of it by now. Think...
RJordan2 : a little bit -- it's all there, really.
Comment : Your an amazing author! If only everyone else in the
world was like you, then the world
Comment : might be a better place.
Question : What can you tell us about Kari al'Thor? Where was
she from, etc.
RJordan2 : Reply to comment: How true, how true.
RJordan2 : About Kari al'Thor: you're going to have to read on
to find out beyond what's already...
RJordan2 : in the books.
Question : What other books have you written under your other
penn names?
RJordan2 : A number, in other genres, and they're all out of
print at the moment.
Question : What is your opinion of the cover art?
RJordan2 : I know that the covers are a hot topic for
discussion, pro and con. I'd like to point...
RJordan2 : out that I have had no end of letters saying that the
reason they first picked up one of..
RJordan2 : the books was the cover.
Question : Are you going to write any other books for different
series?
RJordan2 : Certainly not until I finish this one.
Question : Mr.Jordan are you willing to do lectures at colleges
and universities?
RJordan2 : Depending entirely on whether I have time, which I
seldom do, unfortunately.
Question : Do you follow any of the aol discussions of your
writings?
RJordan2 : Only when someone downloads and sends hard-copy to
me.
Question : From what sources did you develop the concept of Wolf
Brothers and the "powers" Perrin has
Question : developed in the series?
RJordan2 : Any number of myths from Europe, North American
Indians, and the Australian...
RJordan2 : aborigines.
Question : Is there any symbolism or "deeper meaning" behind
this series?
RJordan2 : There are layers, certainly, but I don't know from
deeper meaning.
Question : Did you intend to have an extreme tone of
Arthurian/biblical references?
RJordan2 : Do I have an extreme tone of same?
RJordan2 : I thought it was a mild tone of same.
Question : Am I seeing things that aren't there, or are there
several references to the Arthurian
Question : Legends in the Wheel of Time?
RJordan2 : Yes, there are. Among many others.
RJordan2 : The Arthurian legend is the most recognizable in the
United States. The others ...
RJordan2 : are much less so and you don't pick them out as
easily.
Comment : I work in a bookstore, and I can testify that your
books are very popular in Kentucky. I
Comment : am looking forward to finishing the series.
Question : Were you surprised at the huge following that have
become almost obsessed with WOT
RJordan2 : Yes, very much.
Question : Does living in such an old and unique house aid you
in coming up with ideas?
RJordan2 : No.
Question : Do you have any interest in establishing a board to
interact with fans ala R. Fiest?
RJordan2 : If I did, I'd never get _any_ writing done.
Question : Can you tell us something of how you go about keeping
track of such a complex world and so
Question : many characters?
RJordan2 : Not without unzipping my head with a can opener.
Question : How did you develop the female characters in your
series? They are a strength to the
Question : series, and are interesting because they seem to
contain genuinely "feminine" thought patterns?
RJordan2 : I spent forty-odd years listening to women, and
besides that, they're all based...
RJordan2 : on my wife.
Question : I hear your next book is "The Wheel of Shogun". Is
this true?
RJordan2 : Not exactly.
Question : Can we expect the introduction of any new, major
characters?
RJordan2 : Read and Find Out!
Question : How hard do you find it to integrate all the subplots
and characters? I find that your
Question : books are much more sophisticated plot-wise than any
of the other fantasy/sci-fi books that I've
Question : read.
RJordan2 : I don't know how hard it is; I just do it.
Question : Any plans for a leatherbound copy of LOC?
RJordan2 : Yes, it's coming.
Question : What exactly is Padan Fain?
RJordan2 : Read & Find Out.
Question : Having just finished 'The Fires of Heaven' I must say
that I am greatly disressed by the
Question : absence of The Wolf .. P So .. what's happened to
him
RJordan2 : He will turn up again eventually. Read on.
Question : Is there something you've learned since, that you
would now change in your first book?
RJordan2 : No.
Question : Is Moraine really dead?
RJordan2 : Read and find...out.
Question : Will you write anye books about characters from the
distant past, such as Artur Hawkwing?
RJordan2 : No.
Question : I was curious about your attitude towards women.
They have a strong (Aes Sedai for
Question : instance) presence in your books. I am glad you
break the stereotype of 'women in chains needs
Question : Conan type to help her.
Question : When you get writers block.What do you do to get it
back into form?
RJordan2 : i'VE NEVER HAD WRITER'S
RJordan2 : (SORRY)
RJordan2 : block -- but I've sometimes had caps lock.
Question : Will what happenned to Asmodeus be explained in Lord
of Chaos?
RJordan2 : Read and find out
Question : Hate to ask but how many volumes total in the WofT
series can we expect (I don't really
Question : want it to end)
RJordan2 : Several more. That's as close as I can come.
Question : Do you have any "defined" plans for your writing
career after you finish Wheel of Time?
RJordan2 : Just as far as some ideas for the next book.
Question : If you could work with any of the writers you named,
who would you choose?
RJordan2 : None of them.
RJordan2 : I work by myelf. I don't see how to work with
someone else, really.
Question : Any chance of your books becoming movies?
RJordan2 : Not under my control.
Question : Robert, in just about every story that I have read,
good reigns supreme. Yet, woudln't it
Question : be interesting if evil made just a little more
headway than usual?
RJordan2 : I think that's usually what happens in what we call a
"story."
Question : What is there to Lan's brother Isam, in the waste. .
.is he a darkfriend, or more. . .
RJordan2 : Read and find out.
Question : How did the White Tower form after the Breaking?
Question : Was there anyone that helped you develop the
characters
RJordan2 : No.
Question : Why Fantasy as a genre?
RJordan2 : Why a duck? Why not a duck?
Question : I would like to become a writer in the future. How
do you suggest I get started?
RJordan2 : By writing.
Question : Are you ever going to expand the existing map and
perhaps open up the lands east of the
Question : Spine of the World?
RJordan2 : There are no known maps of the Aiel Waste. That has
been established.
Question : If Rand's mother isn't Aiel, was she formerly Queen
of Andor?
RJordan2 : Read and find out!
Question : Why is Perrin's horse in LoC called Slayer and not
Stepper?
RJordan2 : Because it's a different horse.
Question : Do you play any role-playing games? What are your
hobbies?
RJordan2 : My hobbies are listed on the dust jacket; they're too
many to list here. ...
RJordan2 : One last question?
Question : I'm sorry. How long after publishing The Eye of the
World did you recognize the extent
Question : of the popularity of your book, and did you know at
that time that the "World" would grow to such
Question : a great proportion (i.e., that you'd have written
this many books)?
RJordan2 : I never expected anything like this, and I really
don't know how long it took me to...
RJordan2 : realize that the books were very popular. It rather
crept up on me.
OnlineHost : All good things must come to an end! Time has run out
OnlineHost : for this event!
CSEmcee1 : It has been a pleasure having you with us tonight, Mr
RJordan2 : Thanks for coming, everybody.
CSEmcee1 : Thanks to you audience for stopping by tonight!
CSEmcee1 : Good evening, everyone!
Aaron Bergman
bd...@midway.uchicago.edu wrote:
:>Question : Are you going to continue writing fantasy after the
:> WoT and Shipwreck series are over?
:>RJordan2 : Yes.
:
:Shipwreck series ? What's this ? Just wondering....
Shipwreck is the book Jordan says he's going to write after the Wheel of
Time. Supposedly, the plot will be some person is shipwrecked off on the
coast of a foreign land. This land will resemble Seanchan, but whether the
story will take place in Randland or not is still up for grabs.
That's all I know. Maybe PNH knows more...
Aaron
:
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:*****************************************************************************
:David Wren-Hardin bd...@quads.uchicago.edu University of Chicago
:Thousands of years ago the Egyptians worshipped cats as gods.
:Cats have never forgotten this.
Tony Zbaraschuk
David Wren-Hardin <bd...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>Spoilers, take care.
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>Well, I finished, and I must say I loved the book. A close second behind
>tSR. We found out alot of stuff, got inside the Forsakens' heads, and
>had good character developement. Now, onto some points.
>
>3) Mat has really come into his own. He is still Mat, but has accepted
>his position.
He still grumbles about it, though. (I suspect that he'll be grumbling
all the way to Tarmon Gai'don, and probably after.)
>
>4) This book really seemed to be about the Aes Sedai. We find out so
>much about how they work. Jordan has done a good job of changing how
>they come across as the characters mature. When we first see AS, we
>see them as all powerful and inscrutable, just like the characters do.
>By now though, the characters are more sophisticated, and we can see
>through them better, just as they can. To people outside the AS, Jordan
>writes in such a way that _we_ see why they act the way they are, but
>they still appear powerful to those not in the know.
Good point. Maybe LoC should have been called "Ladies of Chaos"? You
are probably right that the main focus here (aside from Rand's gradual
descent into MPD, not to be confused with MPS) is the Aes Sedai. I
might note that most of us probably spent about the first three books
thinking that the Aes Sedai were really Good-Hearted But Misunderstood
Wizards Like Every Other Fantasy Book Around... boy, were we wrong.
One begins to wonder if the Whitecloaks don't have something right...
>
Mat meeting Egwene/Elayne/Nynaeve was classic. I would have paid to
>see the expressions on their faces when they realized they couldn't
>channel at him.
And I would have paid to see the expression on Mat's face when the
novice poked her head in the door and said "Mother" to Egwene :)
>
Tony Z
--
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its
swiftness. I love that which they defend, the city of the Men of Numenor."
--- Faramir, _The Two Towers_
Tony Zbaraschuk
David Wren-Hardin <bd...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
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>Here's an idea, really an observation, that I don't think anyone
>else has had, at least not in the 1 MEG+ of posts I 've read.
>
>Pedron Niall is reminising about his 'feeling', and how he only had
>it one other time, when fighting in Illian, and an army came from
>where no army came before.
>
>Hmmm, who do we know who spent time in Illian ? Tam, of course.
>I think Tam either led this charge as Second Captain, was promoted
>because of it, or received the heron sword as a reward.
Well, I think you're confusing two episodes here... one where the Illianer
army came out of nowhere, and was stopped only because Niall listened to
the dice rolling in his head and posted a third of his army as guard. The
second would have been the battle where the Companions covered the retreat
of the Illianer army, and the King was captured. (They might, of course,
be the same battle; I don't remember the names right now.)
I agree with you, though, that Tam probably did distinguish himself in
one or both of these actions. (We know, from Moiraine's talk with Siuan
Sanche in tGH, that Tam did distinguish himself in the Whitecloak War.)
What struck me about this episode was the comment about the dice rolling.
Mat has them rolling almost all the time; Pedron Niall only twice in his
life so far. Last time it was because an army was coming up behind him
that nobody knew about. I wonder if he'll listen this time, and maybe
take some measures against surprise. Maybe the Whitecloaks will survive
the Seanchan?
Carolyn Fusinato
:RJordan2 : blacksmith works. For example.
>:_Obviously_, he didn't do quite enough research into that particular
>:subject. *sniff*.
>We commented on this :)
I'd bet that he said that intentionally. I'm relatively sure he has
the FAQ, and if so, I'm definately sure he's read it.
Ha! I'd have loved to've commented on this:
Question: Why was Perrin not in the Fires of Heaven?
RJordan2: He had a lot of things to do back home, and
they were all pretty boring.
But, Mr. Jordan, that didn't keep Elayne and Nynaeve's whole menagerie
romp out of FIRES...<veg> Moiraine
"How did they teach you to be just a happy puppet dancing
on a string?" -"You Happy Puppet," 10,000 Maniacs
"To your common sense firm arguments I won't listen to
your voice of reason trying to change my mind. I mind my
feelings and not your words. Didn't you notice I'm so
headstrong even when I know I'm wrong?" -"Headstrong,"
10,000 Maniacs
"It's not easy being green..." Kermit
-E-mail me your postal address for a free sample of the WoT
Club newsletter, "The Chronicles." Send submissions
(please!) to The WoT Club, P.O. Box 220322, Chantilly, VA
22022-3022.
Aaron Bergman
ko...@midway.uchicago.edu wrote:
:Just one comment:
:
:RJordan2 : Yes, because I need to research things like the
: details of exactly how a...
:RJordan2 : blacksmith works. For example.
:
:_Obviously_, he didn't do quite enough research into that particular
:subject. *sniff*.
:
:Pam "It's in the FAQ" Korda
:ko...@kimbark.uchicago.edu
We commented on this :)
Aaron
Pam Korda
RJordan2 : Yes, because I need to research things like the
details of exactly how a...
RJordan2 : blacksmith works. For example.
_Obviously_, he didn't do quite enough research into that particular
Pam Korda
>Shipwreck is the book Jordan says he's going to write after the Wheel of
>Time. Supposedly, the plot will be some person is shipwrecked off on the
>coast of a foreign land. This land will resemble Seanchan, but whether the
>story will take place in Randland or not is still up for grabs.
See the FAQ: section 1.0 or 1.1, I think.
Pam "not dead yet" Korda | To get the WOTFAQ between
ko...@kimbark.uchicago.edu | postings, E-mail me, or ftp
ko...@rainbow.uchicago.edu | it from faser.cs.olemiss.edu.
>>>>>>>>>>WOTFAQ CONTAINS SPOILERS UP TO TFOH!!!<<<<<<<<<
Alan James Fryer
Jason M. Tenenbaum <jmt...@lulu.acns.nwu.edu> wrote:
>In article <Cy1JA...@eskimo.com>, to...@eskimo.com (Tony Zbaraschuk) says:
>>
>>In article <1994Oct21.1...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>>David Wren-Hardin <bd...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>Before I say, what I'm about to say I want everyone to promise not to get
>mad at me. Promise? OK, good. I thought the book was wonderful, but it
>seriously lost its focus after Egwene was made Amyrlin. From about page
>525 on it seemed to me he slid of on some tangent he really didn;t mean
>to. We had all of this set up about Sammael, and Morgase, and the bowl,
>but they were pretty much abandoned without any clear reason. It's sort of
I agree with you on many accounts. I loved the book but I think Jordan
has added some padding to his series, which is ironic because about a month
ago I argued that balefire was not a way to string out the series.
This book I figured the big climax would be the showdown with Sammael
which never happened. I new Perrin would be back and that Mat would start
really moving.
What I was surprised at is that this subplot with Morguese is still going
on and that alot of lords seem to have run off to rebel bands. I assume
Morg. 's whole purpose is to give the Whitecloaks something they can
use to be a real pain in the future.
What I don't understand is the bowl thing. Fixing the heat is great
even if it is only temporary (assuming DO will get more powerful as the
the seals weaken) the whole idea has the feel of something just being
thrown in there. Remember the wheather was getting better at one point.
On the other hand it did pit Mat up against AS which is great. I am
hopping he wins the battle of wills with Elayne (who I used to like but
who now is as bad as Eg when she is around Rand).
As for Rand and the AS, it was bound to happen, Jordan seemed to be setting
him up for a fall ( the AS fell in the end much further).
--
_________________________________________________________________________
alf...@teleport.com - I'll deny everything....
Jason M. Tenenbaum
>David Wren-Hardin <bd...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
Before I say, what I'm about to say I want everyone to promise not to get
mad at me. Promise? OK, good. I thought the book was wonderful, but it
seriously lost its focus after Egwene was made Amyrlin. From about page
525 on it seemed to me he slid of on some tangent he really didn;t mean
to. We had all of this set up about Sammael, and Morgase, and the bowl,
but they were pretty much abandoned without any clear reason. It's sort of
like what happened in EotW. Here they are trying to get to Tar Valon, and
all of the sudden they have to go into the Blight to find the Eye of the
World. Now, in that book the sudden switch worked very well. It just
wasn't as cohesive here. He was moving along in one direction to a certain
climax, when all of a sudden, the evil Aes Sedai come in and capture Rand!
He has to be saved by Perrin in a battle which lasts all of ten pages. It
would have been much better if he had stuck with the Sammael subplot or
even the bowl. He has shown that he can run two subplots at the same time
quite effectively. He just had too many introduced and no idea where to
go with them at this point. The Aes Sedai part was certainly rushed, as
was the Shaido. We here almost nothing from them at all, and it turns out
they are cultivating the climax of the story. The whole ending seemed
anticlimatic with Taim coming in and Rand being freed and the Aes Sedai
swearing fealty to him. To me, it didn't seem that important now. You
still have so many plots going on. The "good" Aes Sedai are still in exile
Sammael is running around, Demandread could be Taim, Mesaana could be
Galina (hence LTT's desire to kill her), Morgase is being manuvered, the
bowl is nowhere to be found, the Ath'an Miere are stirring, Egwene is
Amyrlin, Suian has been healed, etc., etc. We have the scientists, we have
Loial's family. It just seemed too much going on at once. He really needed
to add another one hundred and fifty pages, or cut down on the length and
speace given to each subplot. Mind you, I loved the book, and because of
everything I just mentioned, the next one is going to be spectacular!
Everything is coming to head, and we have a whole other book to explore it
in next, agast, next _year_! Oh well, untill then you can read this
incredibly long post.
Jason
David Wren-Hardin
Well, I finished, and I must say I loved the book. A close second behind
tSR. We found out alot of stuff, got inside the Forsakens' heads, and
had good character developement. Now, onto some points.
1) A lot of people have complained, or at least commented, that LoC
reads like the first half of a book. Ummm....should I point out that
this is the sixth book in a looks to be nine book series ? Things are
too far along now to have everything cleanly wrapped up every 700
pages. I like this style much better, and wished the whole series
read this way.
2) Taim. I think he's Demandred, but the jury is still out. He is
tres cool though, and has the best line of the entire series, which
has been quoted alot already: "Kneel or you will be knelt". you tell
'em Taim !
3) Mat has really come into his own. He is still Mat, but has accepted h
his position.
4) This book really seemed to be about the Aes Sedai. We find out so
much about how they work. Jordan has done a good job of changing how
they come across as the characters mature. When we first see AS, we
see them as all powerful and inscrutable, just like the characters do.
By now though, the characters are more sophisticated, and we can see
through them better, just as they can. To people outside the AS, Jordan
writes in such a way that _we_ see why they act the way they are, but
they still appear powerful to those not in the know.
5) The writing was more even overall I thought.
6) Mat meeting Egwene/Elayne/Nyn was classic. I would have paid to
see the expressions on their faces when they realized they couldn't
channel at him.
7) One of the characters, a minor one I think, uses the word
'Galivanting'. No gloves yet, but it's only a matter of time.
That's it with the general impressions, more to come later.
David Wren-Hardin
> WoT and Shipwreck series are over?
>RJordan2 : Yes.
Shipwreck series ? What's this ? Just wondering....
David Wren-Hardin
Here's an idea, really an observation, that I don't think anyone
else has had, at least not in the 1 MEG+ of posts I 've read.
Pedron Niall is reminising about his 'feeling', and how he only had
it one other time, when fighting in Illian, and an army came from
where no army came before.
Hmmm, who do we know who spent time in Illian ? Tam, of course.
I think Tam either led this charge as Second Captain, was promoted
because of it, or received the heron sword as a reward.
This may play no role in the plot, at least directly, but I thought
it was interesting.
Lews Therin
: What I was surprised at is that this subplot with Morguese is still going
: on and that alot of lords seem to have run off to rebel bands. I assume
: Morg. 's whole purpose is to give the Whitecloaks something they can
: use to be a real pain in the future.
I don't remember who said it, but some other reader suggested that it
will instead provide Morgase a good reason to step down and hand the
crown over to Elayne (once she realizes Elayne is alive and well.) If
she's never to regain her throne, but instead renounces her claim in
favor of Elayne, her agreements with the Whitecloaks are null and void.
: What I don't understand is the bowl thing. Fixing the heat is great
: even if it is only temporary (assuming DO will get more powerful as the
: the seals weaken) the whole idea has the feel of something just being
: thrown in there. Remember the wheather was getting better at one point.
Why does everyone fall hook, line, and sinker for the assumption that
Elayne and Nynaeve make that the bowl is a ter'angreal for mussing with
the weather? I didn't read anything that conclusively stated that in
LOC, other than the strength of their fervent belief that it was so.
Remember, they were using the "need" technique in T'A'R, but that doesn't
mean that what they THOUGHT they needed (a weather-working ter'angreal)
is what they really DO need.
--
#--- Lews Therin -- le...@teleport.com -###
#----- (public access user not affiliated with teleport) -#####
##------ --######
###----- "And the Glory of the Light did shine upon him. ---#####
#####--- And the Peace of the Light did he give men. -----###
######-- Binding nations to him. Making one of many..." ------##
#####- -- from "Glory of the Dragon" -----#
###- composed by Meane sol Ahelle, Fourth Age ---#
Robyn Goldstein
Alan James Fryer <alf...@teleport.com> wrote:
>In article <389qrk$a...@news.acns.nwu.edu>,
>Jason M. Tenenbaum <jmt...@lulu.acns.nwu.edu> wrote:
>>>In article <1994Oct21.1...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>>>David Wren-Hardin <bd...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>Spoiler space ahead
>>Before I say, what I'm about to say I want everyone to promise not to get
>>mad at me. Promise? OK, good. I thought the book was wonderful, but it
>>seriously lost its focus after Egwene was made Amyrlin. From about page
>>525 on it seemed to me he slid of on some tangent he really didn;t mean
>>to. We had all of this set up about Sammael, and Morgase, and the bowl,
>>but they were pretty much abandoned without any clear reason. It's sort of
>I agree with you on many accounts. I loved the book but I think Jordan
>has added some padding to his series, which is ironic because about a month
>ago I argued that balefire was not a way to string out the series.
[...]
I enjoyed LoC. I thought it was a very good book. Yes, I know that
nothing major happened in it, and the end was rather contrived, but it
was still good. We're in the middle of a who knows how many more pages
series. We can't expect something major to happen every 500 pages or
so. Fantasy is not supposed to be real life. However, I think that
Fantasy writing needs to parallel "real" life in certain respects. One
of those respects is that something major _does_ _not_ happen to a person
every 6 months, or even once a year. It happens occassionally and life
builds up to it. I think that Jordan is building up to the big
confrontation. Yeah, we'd all love to have something big and
interesting happen every so often, but life don't work like that.
It happens occassionally. I think that Jordan is doing a good job of
showing us what happens in-between those big events, like Rand taking
Callandor or even when Rand confronts Rahvin/Ishmael/throw in your
favorite Forsaken here. Those in-between events can be just as
important, if not more so, than the huge fights. I'm starting to ramble,
so I'll stop now. All I'm saying is that I think that LoC was a good
book and that I'm glad it _didn't_ have any major battles/whatever in it
b/c we needed to see the characters developed more. Which this book
certainly did do. In a series this long, character development is very
important. I, for one, am glad that Jordan concentrated on that in this
book.
Hawk
* Reality is the only obstacle to happiness. *
Benjamin J. Vincent
:
: Why does everyone fall hook, line, and sinker for the assumption that
: Elayne and Nynaeve make that the bowl is a ter'angreal for mussing with
: the weather? I didn't read anything that conclusively stated that in
: LOC, other than the strength of their fervent belief that it was so.
:
: Remember, they were using the "need" technique in T'A'R, but that doesn't
: mean that what they THOUGHT they needed (a weather-working ter'angreal)
: is what they really DO need.
:
Good point. When they first jumped to the White Tower, I figured they're
NEED took them to the Horn of Valere...
ben
Alex Werner
Lews Therin <le...@teleport.com> wrote:
spoilers ahead
>
>I don't remember who said it, but some other reader suggested that it
>will instead provide Morgase a good reason to step down and hand the
>crown over to Elayne (once she realizes Elayne is alive and well.) If
>she's never to regain her throne, but instead renounces her claim in
>favor of Elayne, her agreements with the Whitecloaks are null and void.
>
(obligatory notice that this is my first post here and now that
I've found this group I'll never get any more work done)
But didn't the treaty Morgase signed say that it would remain valid
into perpituity? Normally when a ruler signs a treaty its still
valid for future rulers, and there's no reason to think that
Morgase wasn't still Queen when she signed the treaty.
However, if Rand conquers Caemlyn, then he can do whatever he wants
with the treaty, including shove it up Pedron Niall's butt. And then
if he wants to hand the throne over to Elayne himself, she wouldn't
be succeeding Morgase, so the treaty would have no effect...
--
Alex Werner | Math/CS | Haverford College
awe...@haverford.edu awe...@ralph.cs.haverford.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------
Ahoy there matey, Kelly Robin Wilcoxin
The Lizard in the Thornbush
cliffhangers, ie
Spoiler
LoC ending with Rand trapped inside the box, Perrin and the wolves and the Aiel
all looming on the horizon, etc. Thank the Light for that!!
beze...@carleton.edu : Life is a dream
Andy Bezella : All dreams must end
"The Lizard in the Thornbush" :