Series burnout?
TheKev
week to go through books 2-5, quickly found myself slogging along as
the series just seemed to wander aimlessly through the next 5 books. I
bought COT a few weeks after it came out but quickly relegated it to
toilet-reading (haven't been able to convince myself to buy the prequel
yet). EOTW is copyrighted 1990 and with at least two more books we are
looking at almost 20 years from start to "finish". King's Gunslinger?
Gave up on that years ago. Worse, like a dummy I read Donaldson's
"Runes of the Earth" before checking out the back to see that his
conclusion is scheduled to come out around 2013. 2013!!! When I read
Lord Foul's Bane I had just started high-school; assuming I live long
enough to finally finish the series, I could be reading it to my
grandkids.
Is is just me or are these series just taking a wee-bit too much time
these days to wrap up? Whatever happened to the good ol' days when you
could pick up a series secure in the knowledge it would only take 3-5
years before you reached some meaningful conclusion?
Mark Erikson
You got too old for Eddings.
And GRRM is going well. I mean, it's only taken him...longer than it
took me to get a degree at University to write this last book. And
counting...
-Mark Erikson
Ilya the Recusant
1999, was it?
>-Mark Erikson
Ilya the Recusant
-----------------
"Asshole" has a special place in my childhood, the point at which I
first learned that typical Americans were assholes.
- C&J
Cairone Belaero
> Is is just me or are these series just taking a wee-bit too much time
> these days to wrap up? Whatever happened to the good ol' days when
you
> could pick up a series secure in the knowledge it would only take 3-5
> years before you reached some meaningful conclusion?
At the risk of being flamed as a newbie who's only haunted the
newsgroup for a few months, I finally decided to speak up once more. I
agree that it takes what seems a tremendous amount of time for authors
to produce a series in entirety. But to expect anything faster isn't
necessarily reasonable. We aren't working with Westerns produced at a
rate of 4 a year and cost a dime to purchase.
I think some commentary in Edding's Rivan Codex might help with
figuring out what's going on with the industry anymore. Back when
Edding's was first making his pitch to Del Rey, he wanted to write 3
volumes for the Belgariad, but Del Rey wanted to market the story as 5
(paperback) volumes that could be produced and sold at a very low
price. And look at the size of the books--they are tiny compared to
many of the works that abound today (not just in fantasy). And look at
the transition into the Mallorean. The five books there were released
in hardback first, and were by far more expansive than the original
series. As to the reason for this, I'll let you draw your own
conclusions. I'm hardly an expert on the subject, but I'd be willing
to bet this is because the market wants more in the fantasy novels it
purchases.
I also think that demanding authors produce volumes like a factory at a
rate of one a year is demanding a lot. It takes a long time to
formulate a world, a long time to create a story worth telling, and a
long time telling it without people rolling their eyes in disgust at
the cliches that mar every other page. It is inevitable that material,
themes, character traits, etc get reused, and that places a greater
burden on someone who is attempting to create a work that stands out.
Perhaps it isn't good to be too lenient, but I'm glad G.R.R. Martin is
taking his time with A Feast For Crows, making it work just right and
not sweating the deadlines. I don't want Feast For Crows to be like
Path of Daggers--a half book. And in terms of Donaldson taking another
eight years to produce the rest of the Last Chronicles, consider that
it has taken him over twenty years to produce Runes, if you mark from
when Lord Foul's Bane was first published.
I do think it is too much to ask for an author to wrap up a series in
3-5 years, if that author has a tale he wants to tell that, in order to
tell it, requires him to take longer. Is a little wait such a bad
thing? For those who are terminally ill (Stephen King's anecdote about
that still gives me chills), I can understand why they'd wish the
series finished. They don't necessarily have the time remaining to
witness the end. But for many of us, a wait of a few years isn't going
to end the world, or hurt us, or even leave a lasting impression.
Still waiting on Rawn's Captal's Tower, and as far as I can tell, I'm
still plugging along just fine. By the Rawn message boards, a fair
number of her fans are, too.
Now to beg for flaming: I DO wish Jordan had taken longer in producing
the last 4 books. Discussion has long since placed Path of Daggers
together with Winter's Heart as the full scope of that little story
arch, and I'm worried that Knife of Dreams will be the quote-on-quote
second half of Crossroads. So, and anyone can back me up or cast me
down for saying so, I think Jordan would have been better off if he had
written the last few books like so:
1) Place the using of the Bowl of Winds at the end of A Crown of
Swords, wrapping up that story line in the same volume where the Bowl
was found, providing a much more conclusive feelings to ACOS than just
Rand jumping out of bed and racing off to kill Sammael.
2) Merge Path of Daggers and Winter's Heart, and place all the wonder
of what is going on around Rand's cleansing of the taint in the fashion
used in Shadow Rising, when Rand thrusts Callendor into the Stone.
3) Using Crossroads as the first of half (fifth?) of building up to
Rand's inevitable disaster with the Seanchan, i.e. merge Crossroads and
Knife of Dreams.
Doing these would undoubtedly have taken Jordan at the very least
another full year apiece, maybe more, but I think it would have been
worth it. At least, it seems to me that most of the disappointment
around Jordan's recent novels has been lack of content. After all, his
writing style really hasn't changed since The Dragon Reborn--just the
amount of story he places in each book.
Now...to flee to the shadows where skulk the timid newbies...
--Cairone Belaero
And for those of you who despise screen names over real, Ryan Harkins.
BunnyThor
>
> And GRRM is going well. I mean, it's only taken him...longer than it
> took me to get a degree at University to write this last book. And
> counting...
Since Jordan started writing his series, I've graduated from college
*twice*.
--Thor
Ilya the Recusant
That we can break up the important events of our lives based on the
number of years Jordan's been writing WoT is both startlingly
frightening and ...
No. I think it's just that.
>--Thor
Ilya the Recusant
>>Ilya wrote:
> <snip>
>> >TheKev wrote:
> <snip>
>> >And GRRM is going well. I mean, it's only taken him...longer than it
>> >took me to get a degree at University to write this last book. And
>> >counting...
>>
>> 1999, was it?
>>
>Copyright by George R R Martin 2000
>GRRM says he hopes to get AFFC out in 2005 http://georgerrmartin.com/
Jibbering Fuck, that's long enough for a normal person to get a
bachelour's degree. Almost enough for two in Quebec if one did cegep.
>Angus
Angus Rivers
<snip>
> >TheKev wrote:
<snip>
> >took me to get a degree at University to write this last book. And
> >counting...
>
> 1999, was it?
>
Copyright by George R R Martin 2000
GRRM says he hopes to get AFFC out in 2005 http://georgerrmartin.com/
Angus
dot
I may graduate college a *third* time before he's done if he takes 13 books.
--
--Stephen
"I think "RAFO" is the sound Robert Jordan makes while watching us try
to figure out these books."
pddu...@hotmail.com
Cairone Belaero wrote:
> <snip a lot of sensible stuff>
> Now...to flee to the shadows where skulk the timid newbies...
>
> --Cairone Belaero
>
> And for those of you who despise screen names over real, Ryan
Harkins.
Couldn't agree more.
Please post more if it's going to be like this. The signal-to-noise
ratio is dire around here.
Aaron Davies
> BunnyThor wrote:
> > Mark Erikson wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> And GRRM is going well. I mean, it's only taken him...longer than it
> >> took me to get a degree at University to write this last book. And
> >> counting...
> >
> >
> > Since Jordan started writing his series, I've graduated from college
> > *twice*.
>
> *And* high school. *And* middle school. *And* elementary school.
>
> I may graduate college a *third* time before he's done if he takes 13 books.
Ditto, almost exactly, except that I currently have no plans for a Ph.D.
If he takes another ten years tho....
--
Aaron Davies
Opinions expressed are solely those of a random number generator.
"I don't know if it's real or not but it is a myth."
-Jami JoAnne of alt.folklore.urban, showing her grasp on reality.
Marko Susimetsa
> Jibbering Fuck, that's long enough for a normal person to get a
> bachelour's degree. Almost enough for two in Quebec if one did cegep.
Actually, that's enough for a Master's Degree... I got mine in 4.5
years and I was by no means the fastest guy around...
IOf course, it depends on in which country you study... In my case it was
the Finnish educational system that got me through...
-Marko
Ilya the Recusant
There should be a t-shirt designed for people like us. "I spent five
years getting my MBA and all I got was a crummy sequel!"
>-Marko
Elias
books in Seoul, and I'm a horrible speller, so please be gentle when
replying...
I think the problem Jordan is facing can be boiled down quite simply.
His first book had one simple story line that spent a little while
branched out into three parts (rand/mat, perrin/egwene,
nyaneve/moraine/lan).
The second book divided into two main storylines: the guys and the
girls, with a couple of chapters where Mat and Perrin were separated
from Rand and a few augmentary chapters about whitecloaks and Bayle
thrown in.
But the story lines kept spinning off. In Book 4, the three chicks
split up, with Egwene going off with Rand, and Perrin wandered off to
do his own thing. Before we knew it we had The Mat Story, The Rand
Story, The Perrin Story, The Egwene Story, The Nyeneve and Egwene
Story, The Morgase Story, The Faile Story, The Random Forsaken Story,
The Elaida Story, The Stupid Twit in Love With Egwene Story, The
Sevanna Story, and on and on and on. With so many story lines to keep
track of, RJ can only spend so much time on any one storyline in every
book. I think this is why he starting writing the prequels. He
yearned for a book with a more sane and manageable plotline.
Anyway, let me know what you think.
--Elias
"The beatings will continue until morale improves."
Ilya the Recusant
<exopht...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>First, a disclaimer: I'm in Taegu right now about 4 hours away from my
>books in Seoul, and I'm a horrible speller, so please be gentle when
>replying...
I don't put people down just because.
>Anyway, let me know what you think.
I agree.
>--Elias
>
>"The beatings will continue until morale improves."
Ilya the Recusant
ataha
> First, a disclaimer: I'm in Taegu right now about 4 hours away from
my
> books in Seoul, and I'm a horrible speller, so please be gentle when
> replying...
>
> I think the problem Jordan is facing can be boiled down quite simply.
> His first book had one simple story line that spent a little while
> branched out into three parts (rand/mat, perrin/egwene,
> nyaneve/moraine/lan).
>
I dont think thats the problem at all. RJ has shown that he can handle
multiple story lines effectively at times. The problem is that he is
stretching stuff out that shouldnt be stretched out. To quote Bilbo,
its starting to 'feel like butter scraped over too much bread'. That
scene in So Harbor with the frickin grain better have some significance
in the next book (He did leave some people behind so maybe something
crazy is going to happen). If not, then its the equivalent of having a
car chase scene in a movie where the cops stop for burgers and coke
halfway through the chase.
I understand that in COT, RJ was trying to bring together all the
plotlines to a point where something momentous is just about to happen
in each line, so that Book 11 is going to be the literary equivalent of
an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie.. but dont tell me that the whole 800
page book couldnt have been covered in a 20 page epilogue to book 9
where he just shows people wondering about the 'beacon', and then have
the important stuff happen at the end (minus the apparantly useless So
Harbor scene) - Egwene getting captured, Perrin meeting Tallanvor, Rand
sending Bashere to see the Seanchan.
Reading COT was so unenthralling i stopped sneaking books into the
bathroom to read at work. It became more exciting to look at the stall
door.
Taha
Chris Lewis
> ... That
> scene in So Harbor with the frickin grain better have some significance
> in the next book (He did leave some people behind so maybe something
> crazy is going to happen). If not, then its the equivalent of having a
> car chase scene in a movie where the cops stop for burgers and coke
> halfway through the chase.
> Taha
>
I agree that most of COT could be squeezed into a few light chapters,
but the So Harbor scene did play an important role in establishing the
"everyone is seeing ghosts" development which was foreshadowed in
earlier scenes (Elayne in rural Andor) and even the previous book (while
Rand and Lan are fighting Fain in Far Madding). RJ did a great job of
capturing the physical and emotional squalor of the So Harbor folks.
-Chris
Frank van Schie
> I agree that most of COT could be squeezed into a few light chapters,
> but the So Harbor scene did play an important role in establishing the
> "everyone is seeing ghosts" development which was foreshadowed in
> earlier scenes (Elayne in rural Andor) and even the previous book (while
> Rand and Lan are fighting Fain in Far Madding). RJ did a great job of
> capturing the physical and emotional squalor of the So Harbor folks.
It's just the name of the place he had trouble with.
It's So Habor.
--
Frank
Christopher Lewis
Wow, "so" it is. You've turned my world upside down!
-Chris