Complete AOL Transcript
Aaron Bergman
Aaron
--
OMNI Muse : We're glad to have you here! I've got lots and lots
of questions, and I'd like to ask...
OMNI Muse : you to briefly tell us about Wheel of Time before we
get started. :)
RobtJordan : It can't be done! Not briefly. This is Loial's
country. :)
RobtJordan : I can't even do it in two or three pages. My advice
is to read the books. :)
OMNI Muse : LOL! Okay, we have lots of fans out there, so let's
get to the questions.
RobtJordan : And start with THE EYE OF THE WORLD, please. :)
OMNI Muse : Shosh001 asks:
RobtJordan : It works much better that way.
Question : Mr. Jordan, you've outdone yourself with Crown of
Swords. My question concerns the True
Question : Power. How is it distinguishable from the One Power?
RobtJordan : It's fairly self-evident from the book...
RobtJordan : What can be done with the True Power is very similar
to what can be done....
RobtJordan : with the One Power. Except that where the One
Power...
RobtJordan : is drawn from the True Source and is the force that
drives the Wheel of Time...
RobtJordan : and powers the universe, the so-called True Power is
drawn from the Dark One...
RobtJordan : There are limits in the same ways there are limits to
the One Power...
RobtJordan : It would be very long if I went into it too much, but
some of those limits...
RobtJordan : and costs of drawing on the Dark One are shown in
CROWN OF SWORDS.
OMNI Muse : If you have any questions about how the auditorium
works, please contact...
OMNI Muse : ... OMNI Zoon by Instant Message and she'll help you
out.
OMNI Muse : JJVORSmith would like to know:
Question : 7)For RJ: Can gateways be created at non-right
angles to the ground? If not, why not?
Question : If yes, why haven't we seen them?
RobtJordan : They can be, and you haven't seen it because
there's...
RobtJordan : been no need to do it. And also some of the people
who can make gateways...
RobtJordan : don't know how to do it.
OMNI Muse : DaveB62 asks:
Question : How do you explain Liah being in Shadar Logoth for so
long?
RobtJordan : She became absorbed into the city...
RobtJordan : She was left there and she is, after all, a Aiel, one
of the people...
RobtJordan : better at surviving under harsh circumstances than
anyone else...
RobtJordan : in the world. And also her corruption by Shadar
Logoth...
RobtJordan : gave her *some* protection.
OMNI Muse : Rog in CT asks:
Question : Because the wheel of time contains the Dark ones
prison, and the ages repeat with each
Question : revolution, then isnt humanity itself also
imprisioned....unable to truly evole?
RobtJordan : No. :)
OMNI Muse : Ellisande ask:
Question : Cuendillar grows stronger when the One Power is
directed into it, but can the One Power be
Question : drawn out of it, causing it to break?
RobtJordan : Read and find out! :)
RobtJordan : That's something I may or may not use in a future
book,....
RobtJordan : but it's information that I don't want you to have
yet...
RobtJordan : And that's the reason why I say "Read and find out"
when I say it. :)
OMNI Muse : Atmakeepr would like to know:
Question : Will we learn what happened to Jain Charin
"Farstrider" after his disapearance?
RobtJordan : Possibly.
OMNI Muse : Belsamar asks:
Question : OK. Let's see if this works. Hello, RJ. Just out of
curiosity, do your predictions (
Question : Foretellings and Min's Viewings ) have a well,
Delphic quality by accident, or by choice ? And
Question : did you ever think of writing a copy of The
Prophecies of the Dragon ?
RobtJordan : There's very little in the books that's by
accident--very little...
RobtJordan : and no, I've never thought of writing out the
complete Prophecies ...
RobtJordan : of the Dragon. As already stated in a previous book,
they would...
RobtJordan : comprise a volume of some 300 to 400 pages.
OMNI Muse : Shosh001 asks:
Question : Mr Jordan, can you tell us why Tor is sending you on
tour for the Fallon series later this
Question : year, but not for A Crown of Swords?
RobtJordan : Well, it was a very short time between handing in A
CROWN OF SWORDS...
RobtJordan : and its publication, and in fact, they weren't really
sure...
RobtJordan : when I'd finish so they couldn't make arrangements in
advance...
RobtJordan : There's a possibility that the Fallon tour may be
extended to encompass...
RobtJordan : some of what we call CROWN OF SWORDS territory.
OMNI Muse : JJVORSmith asks:
Question : My wife wonders why you left all the plot threads
hanging at the end of the CoS. Others
Question : have felt that CoS is more like the middle of a book
rather than a complete book by itself.
Question : Could you explain how you pace and structure your
books in the WoT?
RobtJordan : Not inside the time we have for this interview! :)
RobtJordan : As with all of the books, there are some plot
elements hanging and some...
RobtJordan : resolved. In some, there are more plot elements tied
up than others; some, fewer...
RobtJordan : It just depends on how the story line is running in
that particular book.
OMNI Muse : Rog in CT would like to know:
Question : All of Min's viewing have come true except one..
does this mean she is no longer
Question : infallible?
RobtJordan : No, it doesn't....
RobtJordan : And actually, that's not quite true, that all of her
viewings have come true but one.
OMNI Muse : If you have any questions about how the auditorium
works, please contact...
OMNI Muse : ... OMNI Zoon by Instant Message and she'll help you
out.
OMNI Muse : LewsTher1 asks:
Question : What was the process through which cuendillar was
made?
RobtJordan : Entirely too complex for me to go into here...
RobtJordan : If there's anyone out there who can channel on the
level of a Forsaken...
RobtJordan : I would be happy to enter into a correspondence with
them on the making...
RobtJordan : of cuendillar. :)
OMNI Muse : CMore102 asks:
Question : Since there are currently WOT card games and video
games in the works, what other mediums
Question : will we see in the future? Comic Books? Films?
RobtJordan : I really don't know...
RobtJordan : I just take it as it comes. There will be a line of
Wheel of Time fantasy clothing...
RobtJordan : and jewelry. There's a company that wants to make WOT
weapons--swords, etc.--...
RobtJordan : but nothing in the way of games that I can discuss.
OMNI Muse : AaronB20 asks:
Question : Can you clarify who can tell when one is using the
True Power?
RobtJordan : No one can tell if you're using the True Power...
RobtJordan : except the Dark One, of course.
OMNI Muse : Folks, I'm getting some questions about how to
contact Robert.
OMNI Muse : You can send e-mail to his publisher at
torb...@panix.com and they'll...
OMNI Muse : forward it to him. Please do *not* send your
manuscripts. :)
OMNI Muse : Ellisande asks:
RobtJordan : You can also reach Tor by snail mail at...
Question : Will you be doing any book signings in New England?
RobtJordan : Tor Books, 175 Fifth Ave., New York, NY 10010, and if
someone sends e-mail...
RobtJordan : to me via Tor, please include a snail-mail address,
because I don't send e-mail...
RobtJordan : back (I'm not set up for it). :)
RobtJordan : As for book signings in New England...
RobtJordan : I don't know. That's entirely up to Tor. I go where
I'm sent, pretty much.
OMNI Muse : Rog in CT asks:
Question : There is a mystery man who helps Rand in the last
chapter of ACoS, my Question: Is this
Question : a new character, or have we seen him elsewhere.
RobtJordan : Well, we've certainly seen him earlier in CROWN OF
SWORDS...
RobtJordan : Otherwise, read and find out. :)
OMNI Muse : Firifly asks:
Question : Considering that WoT is such a success, after you
have finished this series, can we look
Question : forward to anything more coming from this world, past
or future?
RobtJordan : Not unless I think of something that I particularly
want to write...
RobtJordan : a story I very much want to tell...
RobtJordan : At the moment, I plan to do another fantasy novel in
another universe....
RobtJordan : I'm working on that already in the back of my head...
RobtJordan : and have been for a couple of years.
OMNI Muse : Spind1e asks:
Question : What did Rand see in the sky in the alternate world
in The Great Hunt? (Shadowspawn don't
Question : use sho-wings, and Forsaken don't need them.)
RobtJordan : Read and find out. :)
OMNI Muse : AaronB20 asks:
Question : Did your interaction with fans lead you to make
certain things previously hidden obvious
Question : in this book?
RobtJordan : No, not interaction with fans...
RobtJordan : There are always things that are going to become more
obvious...
RobtJordan : as the story goes along. I certainly don't intend to
keep everything hidden...
RobtJordan : until the very last. There won't be any Perry Mason
revelation scene...
RobtJordan : where all the characters sit down and say, "This is
what happened....
RobtJordan : and this is why it happened." :)
OMNI Muse : Folks, I'm getting questions about a log:
OMNI Muse : The log of this conference will be available for
download tomorrow afternoon at:
OMNI Muse : Keyword: OMNI > File Libraries (in the scrollbox) >
Conference Log Library.
OMNI Muse : Gaul Aiel asks:
Question : Will the next book take as long as Crown of Swords to
be released?
RobtJordan : Probably...
RobtJordan : I am due to deliver it in the fall of next year...
RobtJordan : which means it will come out probably in the spring
of the year...
RobtJordan : following that. I decided writing the books more
slowly...
RobtJordan : was better than falling over dead. :)
OMNI Muse : Scandium2 asks:
Question : How much longer do you anticipate the series will go
on? I have heard 10, but is anything
Question : definite yet?
RobtJordan : It will be at least 10 books, yes....
RobtJordan : There will be some more books, not too many, and
please God, not so many..
RobtJordan : as I've already written. I am, in truth, writing as
fast as I can...
RobtJordan : I want to maintain the pace of the story until I
reach...
RobtJordan : the final scene, which has been in my head since
before...
RobtJordan : I started writing THE EYE OF THE WORLD.
OMNI Muse : Seraph23 asks:
Question : First off, I'd like to say thanks Mr. jordan for
providing my family and I countless hours
Question : of reading enjoyment, and I'd like to ask you
something about the Aiel, well, who are they?
RobtJordan : You're welcome...
RobtJordan : And they are the descendants of the pacifists...
RobtJordan : who were in service to the Aes Sedai...
RobtJordan : in the Age of Legend. If on the other hand, you mean
the source of the culture...
RobtJordan : in my mind, they contain some elements of the Apache,
some of the Zulu...
RobtJordan : some of the Bedouin, and some elements of my own...
RobtJordan : including that I rather liked the fact of making the
desert dwellers...
RobtJordan : blue-eyed and fair instead of the usual dark-eyed,
dark-complected...
RobtJordan : desert people.
OMNI Muse : If you have any questions about how the auditorium
works, please contact...
OMNI Muse : ... OMNI Zoon by Instant Message and she'll help you
out.
OMNI Muse : BHeins1 asks:
Question : According to several of AOL's members in our
discussion forum, you stated at a Balticon
Question : conference that Verin Sedai had never held the Oath
Rod, or had circumvented the Oaths. I was
Question : wondering if that was true, and if so, has Cadsuane
also done so?
RobtJordan : No, I did *not* say that Verin had never held the
Oath Rod...
RobtJordan : Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod.
OMNI Muse : I was at Balticon and I was quite impressed by your
GoH speech and your commitment to literacy.
RobtJordan : Thank you, Muse! :)
OMNI Muse : Sarpeshka would like to know:
Question : Mr. Jordan, how do you come up with names for
characters in your stories?
RobtJordan : I have a huge list of names. Whenever I see an
interesting name....
RobtJordan : I jot it down. I almost never use the name as it is,
though. I change it.
OMNI Muse : StuuuuBush asks:
Question : Was Mat right about the "snakelike" guy being a
Gholam, and if so, are we to assume that
Question : the bad guys are going to have as much trouble
stopping one as the good guys?
RobtJordan : I guess he was right. Because after all, his source
for the information...
RobtJordan : was Birgitte, who has some memories of the War of the
Power...
RobtJordan : And yes, if a gholam decided to turn against one of
the Forsaken...
RobtJordan : the Forsaken would certainly have as much difficulty
in stopping the attack...
RobtJordan : as any other person would. They were, after all,
created for the sole purpose...
RobtJordan : of assassinating Aes Sedai.
OMNI Muse : SCLaCore asks:
Question : Which of the books is he most satisfied with?
RobtJordan : I couldn't really say...
RobtJordan : I try to make each book better than the preceding
book...
RobtJordan : and frankly, once I have written a book, I stop
thinking about....
RobtJordan : it. My mind is focused on the next book, to the
extent, actually, that...
RobtJordan : when I came back from turning in COS, though I
intended to take...
RobtJordan : a short vacation, I found myself sitting at the
computer and working...
RobtJordan : on the next book.
OMNI Muse : Scotty1489 would like to know:
Question : Are any of the characters based on real people?
RobtJordan : No, not really...
RobtJordan : except that all of the women have something of my
wife in them.
OMNI Muse : Robert, we're getting questions about cover art. Do
you get to choose the artist?
OMNI Muse : The theme?
RobtJordan : I choose the them...
RobtJordan : the theme, that is, and I give the cover art a
general idea of the scene...
RobtJordan : that I want. But then it's worked between him and the
art department in NY...
RobtJordan : I do have some input and I have managed to get a few
things changed to ...
RobtJordan : some degree. Rand, for instance, in the earlier
books, was shown as no more...
RobtJordan : than 5-10 or 5-11, and he is about 6-5, in my eyes...
OMNI Muse : Rog in CT asks:
Question : Rand recovered verly quickly from his dual healing..
is this because of the way men heal
Question : or because of the warder bond.. or both?
RobtJordan : Partly the warder bond and partly the kind of healing
that was used on him...
RobtJordan : It should be obvious that Damer Filnn has discovered
the same method...
RobtJordan : of healing that Nynaeve uses...
RobtJordan : and of course, he still is not completely Healed,
remember.
--I accidentally closed the window here. Someone typed in the question for me--
What is going to happen with Elayne, Min, Rand and
Avhi in their relationship? Will they all get along?
RobtJordan : "Read and find out!" he chuckled richly. ;)
OMNI Muse : LOL!
OMNI Muse : A comment from Argive000:
Comment : Mr. Jordan, I want to inform you that a recent
graduate of the University of Notre Dame
Comment : has just completed a thesis on the rebirth of
philosophy in literature centered around your wheel
Comment : of time series
RobtJordan : That's very nice to know...
RobtJordan : I've had several people send my copies of their
master's theses and...
RobtJordan : other undergraduate theses, comparing me to Tolkien
and C. S. Lewis...
RobtJordan : It's enough to swell my head. Luckily, my wife takes
care of that...
RobtJordan : little problem. ;)
OMNI Muse : LOL!
OMNI Muse : BIG TX MA asks:
Question : Mr. Jordan, will we find out more about the Snakes
and Foxes in future books?
RobtJordan : Read and find out! ::stage direction: Phantom of the
Opera: Laughter...
RobtJordan : from offtstage::
OMNI Muse : Folks, Robert is going to be able to stay with us
until 11pm ET tonight!
OMNI Muse : Thanks for the wonderful questions!
OMNI Muse : Anastin B asks:
Question : Good evening Mr. Jordan. I was wondering if you were
plaining on doing, or letting someone
Question : do, a companion book for the Wheel of Time?
RobtJordan : There is an illustrated guide to the world of the
Wheel of Time in the works...
RobtJordan : It is planned to have 64 color illustrations and
80,000 words or so of text...
RobtJordan : and it will include a good bit of information that I
did not intend to put ..
RobtJordan : in the books. There will be a map of the entire world
in the illustrated guide...
RobtJordan : I don't have an estimated publication date at this
time.
OMNI Muse : PaidonF asks:
Question : Does using the Oath Rod shorten ones lifespan?
RobtJordan : Read and find out. :)
RobtJordan : You guys have to know by now that I like to leave you
hanging if I can!
OMNI Muse : BHeins1 asks:
Question : I was just wondering if you have read the FAQ
compiled by many of your fans. If so, how
Question : would you evaluate it's accuracy?
RobtJordan : It's been about a year since someone's sent me a copy
of the FAQ...
RobtJordan : At that time, the proportions were running pretty
much the same as the ...
RobtJordan : early ones I'd seen: about a third are right, a third
are almost right, ...
RobtJordan : and the rest are blue sky. In fact, there have been
some arguments over things...
RobtJordan : I'd thought I'd made clear. (Who knows what evil
lurks in the hearts of men?
RobtJordan : Bela knows!)
OMNI Muse : Nature102 asks:
Question : On the discussion boards in the SF/F area, one of the
hottest topics of debate is the
Question : queston of who killed Asmodean. Can you shed any
light on the subject?
RobtJordan : Yes...
RobtJordan : but I won't. ;) Read and find out!
OMNI Muse : Scotty1489 would like to know:
Question : Is our earth a future or past turn of the wheel?
RobtJordan : Both.
RobtJordan : The characters in the books are the source of many of
our myths and legends...
RobtJordan : and we are the source of many of theirs.
RobtJordan : You can look two ways along a wheel.
OMNI Muse : Shoosh001 asks:
Question : How do you explain the longevity of the Kin?
OMNI Muse : (oops, that should be Shosh001)
RobtJordan : Read and find out! :)
RobtJordan : The clues are there.
OMNI Muse : JJVORSmith asks:
Question : There's been some question about how the Aiel sustain
their vast numbers east and west of
Question : the Dragron wall. How can millions of Aiel live on
grubs in the Waste and why don't they
Question : scavenge the land clean in Illian, Cairehen, and
Caemlyn?
RobtJordan : They can live in the same ways that the Bedouin
manage to live in a desert...
RobtJordan : where you or I would die, and the Apache did so. They
make very efficient use...
RobtJordan : of what they find. And if they stay in one place for
too long in too great a number...
RobtJordan : they would indeed strip the land bare. But there
certainly aren't...
RobtJordan : millions of them in Illian.
OMNI Muse : Dragon9150 asks:
Question : What happens to Birgitte if the Horn of Valere is
sounded again?
RobtJordan : Read and find out, my children, read and find out. :)
OMNI Muse : Crypticis asks:
Question : have you ever thought of writing the Travels of Jain
Farstrider?
RobtJordan : No.
OMNI Muse : Folks, I have hundreds of questions still in the
queue, but our time with Robert is almost up.
OMNI Muse : Our last question comes from MHAJEK13:
Question : Any chance of producing a "what has happened already"
update, either in the next book or
Question : maybe as a seperate piece?
RobtJordan : Well, let's see, it would probably take--if I made it
as short as I could--three volumes..
RobtJordan : I don't really think so. :)
RobtJordan : I'm afraid you're just going to have to read the
books. Sorry about that.
OMNI Muse : Thanks so much for being here with us tonight,
Robert!
RobtJordan : Thanks for having me!
OMNI Muse : The log of this conference will be available for
download tomorrow afternoon at:
RobtJordan : I enjoyed it!
RobtJordan : It was a pleasure!
OMNI Muse : Keyword: OMNI > File Libraries (in the scrollbox) >
Conference Log Library.
OMNI Muse : Robert will be joining our hosts OMNIFlame and OMNI
Siren for a few minutes ...
OMNI Muse : over in the OMNI SF/Fantasy room where the discussion
of the Wheel of Time series ...
OMNI Muse : will continue.
OMNI Muse : We hope to see you there!
OnlineHost : Copyright 1996 America Online, Inc.
--This next one was substantially edited so as to make sense--
JVoegele : Mr. Jordan. were you rushed by publisher deadlines?
RobtJordan : JVoegele: In a way. Not with the last book,
certainly...
RobtJordan : but THE EYE OF THE WORLD took 4 years to write...
RobtJordan : Each of the other books took 13 or 14 months...
RobtJordan : but the publisher brought out the second book 10
months after the first...
RobtJordan : and the following books at 12-month intervals...
RobtJordan : You can see there's a law of diminishing returns
there...
RobtJordan : For this last book, I simply told them I could not do
it again...
RobtJordan : A CROWN OF SWORDS took about 20 months to write, in
fact.
RobtJordan : That's why the book didn't come out last fall or
earlier in the spring...
Jaw 707 : RobtJordan - what did you think about those folks
arguing with you about YOUR characters?
RobtJordan : Jaw 707: Well, I'm sort of used to it. It's been
going on for a long time now.
Ealgail : ADMIT IT!!!!!! DASHIVA IS OSAN'GAR111111
RobtJordan : Ealgail: On the advice of my lawyer, I never admit
anything. :)
RobtJordan : Not even to my wife!
MRHowley : How old where you when you started writing?
RobtJordan : MRHowley: I was 30 when I started writing. Maybe 29.
I'd have to sit down..
RobtJordan : and figure it out. It was a while ago.
Anastin BW : Mr. Jordan, any idea who will be doing the art for
the companion book?
RobtJordan : Anastin: An artist named Todd Hamilton is doing the
work for the illustrated....
RobtJordan : guide.
Sheriam : Mr. Jordan? If I may? How did you develop the
Language?
RobtJordan : Sheriam: the words come partly from Gaelic, Russian,
Arabic, Chinese, Japanese...
RobtJordan : the grammar and syntax I believe I invented myself...
RobtJordan : although it's possible that another language usees
the same. Of course, just...
RobtJordan : as with English, I have deliberately put in some very
illogical inconsistencies.
Gaul Aiel : MR. JORDAN: Do you realize what you are putting us
through with the time between books?
RobtJordan : Gaul: You guys get to sit around with your feet up
between books! :) I bust my...
RobtJordan : hump writing them.
DayTripr1 : And also is the Dark One the only source of the True
Power?
RobtJordan : DayTripr: Yes, the Dark One is the only source of the
True Power.
OpenStone : How difficult is it to get a major publisher like TOR
to publish a novel, Mr. Jordan?
RobtJordan : I forgot who asked this, but it wasn't difficult to
get Tor...
RobtJordan : to publish my first novel. Tom Doherty liked what I
write...
RobtJordan : I've been writing for 20 years...
RobtJordan : and I told him that I had an idea for a multi-volume
book ...
RobtJordan : I didn't know how many books...
RobtJordan : and probably any other publishers would have thrown
me out of his office...
RobtJordan : but Tom said OK!
Anastin BW : Mr Jordan, do you have any personal thoughts about
people Role Playing in the world you
Anastin BW : have given us?
RobtJordan : Anastin: I have a standard letter that I send to
people when they ask for permission...
RobtJordan : to do role-playing, in which I grant them very
limited permission to do this...
RobtJordan : It says, in effect, that you have permission to do
it in this instance as long...
RobtJordan : as you don't try to make a profit off of it.
MRHowley : Where can you get the poster of the map on the jacket
cover?
RobtJordan : MRHowley: There may be a very few copies left of the
poster at the publisher ..
RobtJordan : in NY. I don't know. I don't think they have any
plans to sell it...
RobtJordan : There were a certain number made to give away during
my last tour...
RobtJordan : Whether any remain is beyond me...
RobtJordan : I'm afraid I need to go now. Thanks to everyone for
your interest!
--
Aaron Bergman -- aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu
<http://minerva.cis.yale.edu/~abergman/abergman.html>
Some quote from the CDA decision should be here soon.
Sok-Hyon Kang
Complete AOL Transcript by Aaron Ber...@minerva.ci
> of questions, and I'd like to ask...
> OMNI Muse : you to briefly tell us about Wheel of Time before we
> get started. :)
> RobtJordan : It can't be done! Not briefly. This is Loial's
> country. :)
> RobtJordan : I can't even do it in two or three pages. My advice
> is to read the books. :)
<munch>
Arghhh! All those questions, and not all the ones that should have been
asked were asked. We still don't know the Failon Bhoda/Rianna
Andormeran/Joiya Byir/White Ajah thing was a mistake, we don't know why
Nynaeve had so much trouble with two linked Black Ajah, and we're not
sure than Flinn, Samitsu, and Corele have linked.
At least we know that the claim by Troufazz that Verin has never held
the Oath Rod was a load of bunk. Vindication!
Steven
Dylan Flynn Alexander
aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Aaron Bergman) wrote:
}OMNI Muse : Atmakeepr would like to know:
}Question : Will we learn what happened to Jain Charin
} "Farstrider" after his disapearance?
}RobtJordan : Possibly.
I think it's revealing he didn't say RAFO. I'd say he hasn't decided
yet to introduce more of Farstrider's past to the story.
}OMNI Muse : Rog in CT would like to know:
}Question : All of Min's viewing have come true except one..
} does this mean she is no longer
}Question : infallible?
}RobtJordan : No, it doesn't....
Well, we already knew he was an idiot.
}OMNI Muse : CMore102 asks:
}Question : Since there are currently WOT card games and video
} games in the works, what other mediums
}Question : will we see in the future? Comic Books? Films?
}RobtJordan : I really don't know...
}RobtJordan : I just take it as it comes. There will be a line of
} Wheel of Time fantasy clothing...
Ick. Ackthp. How horrible.
}RobtJordan : and jewelry. There's a company that wants to make WOT
} weapons--swords, etc.--...
}RobtJordan : but nothing in the way of games that I can discuss.
ObOldThread: Wot Action Figures!
}OMNI Muse : Rog in CT asks:
}Question : There is a mystery man who helps Rand in the last
} chapter of ACoS, my Question: Is this
}Question : a new character, or have we seen him elsewhere.
}RobtJordan : Well, we've certainly seen him earlier in CROWN OF
} SWORDS...
He's the watcher or Moridin then, I guess.
BTW, Aaron, does this mean you made a mistake earlier when you said
it was the _watcher_ who showed up earlier in ACOS? It's a fairly big
difference.
}Question : What did Rand see in the sky in the alternate world
} in The Great Hunt? (Shadowspawn don't
}Question : use sho-wings, and Forsaken don't need them.)
}RobtJordan : Read and find out. :)
Hmmmm.
}Question : do, a companion book for the Wheel of Time?
}RobtJordan : There is an illustrated guide to the world of the
} Wheel of Time in the works...
}RobtJordan : It is planned to have 64 color illustrations and
} 80,000 words or so of text...
}RobtJordan : and it will include a good bit of information that I
} did not intend to put ..
}RobtJordan : in the books. There will be a map of the entire world
} in the illustrated guide...
Very cool. It'll be interesting to see exactly how the Breaking changed
our continents, and to see how large Seanchan and Shara are.
}OMNI Muse : PaidonF asks:
}Question : Does using the Oath Rod shorten ones lifespan?
}RobtJordan : Read and find out. :)
Idiots, idiots, everywhere.....
}RobtJordan : I'd thought I'd made clear. (Who knows what evil
} lurks in the hearts of men?
}RobtJordan : Bela knows!)
Heh.
--
Dylan Flynn Alexander
dy...@tamu.edu
Aaron Bergman
(Dylan Flynn Alexander) wrote:
:}OMNI Muse : CMore102 asks:
:}Question : Since there are currently WOT card games and video
:} games in the works, what other mediums
:}Question : will we see in the future? Comic Books? Films?
:}RobtJordan : I really don't know...
:}RobtJordan : I just take it as it comes. There will be a line of
:} Wheel of Time fantasy clothing...
:
:Ick. Ackthp. How horrible.
Air Jordans.
:}OMNI Muse : Rog in CT asks:
:}Question : There is a mystery man who helps Rand in the last
:} chapter of ACoS, my Question: Is this
:}Question : a new character, or have we seen him elsewhere.
:}RobtJordan : Well, we've certainly seen him earlier in CROWN OF
:} SWORDS...
:
:He's the watcher or Moridin then, I guess.
:
:BTW, Aaron, does this mean you made a mistake earlier when you said
:it was the _watcher_ who showed up earlier in ACOS? It's a fairly big
:difference.
I didn't say that.... Did I?
>We have seen the wanderer previously in ACOS.
Nope. I didn't.
Aaron
John S. Novak, III
Stuff that looks particularly important to me:
>Question : How do you explain Liah being in Shadar Logoth for so
> long?
>RobtJordan : She became absorbed into the city...
>RobtJordan : She was left there and she is, after all, a Aiel, one
> of the people...
>RobtJordan : better at surviving under harsh circumstances than
> anyone else...
>RobtJordan : in the world. And also her corruption by Shadar
> Logoth...
>RobtJordan : gave her *some* protection.
Hurm.
So much for Liah's survival being part of Sammael's plan.
I stand by the idea that Shadar Logoth was just a ploy for him to
convince Rand he died. Moreover, it was a plan for him to convince
all the other little Forsaken that he's dead. Won't Graendal be
surprised...
>Question : All of Min's viewing have come true except one..
> does this mean she is no longer
>Question : infallible?
>RobtJordan : No, it doesn't....
>RobtJordan : And actually, that's not quite true, that all of her
> viewings have come true but one.
And I can sense the questions about this: I'm quite sure he means
that Min has some other viewings which have not yet come true.
>Question : Can you clarify who can tell when one is using the
> True Power?
>RobtJordan : No one can tell if you're using the True Power...
>RobtJordan : except the Dark One, of course.
Stick a fork in this one, too.
>Question : There is a mystery man who helps Rand in the last
> chapter of ACoS, my Question: Is this
>Question : a new character, or have we seen him elsewhere.
>RobtJordan : Well, we've certainly seen him earlier in CROWN OF
> SWORDS...
And this one.
Pretty much indicates we're talking about Moridin.
>Question : What did Rand see in the sky in the alternate world
> in The Great Hunt? (Shadowspawn don't
>Question : use sho-wings, and Forsaken don't need them.)
>RobtJordan : Read and find out. :)
Huh!
Interesting.
Either we're not done with the Portal Stones, or Rand is in for a
nasty surprise of some sort in the near future.
>RobtJordan : It will be at least 10 books, yes....
>RobtJordan : There will be some more books, not too many, and
> please God, not so many..
<Chuckle>
>Question : Rand recovered verly quickly from his dual healing..
> is this because of the way men heal
>Question : or because of the warder bond.. or both?
>RobtJordan : Partly the warder bond and partly the kind of healing
> that was used on him...
Which should make it clear to people who have asked, yes, Rand _does_
get the benefits of the Warder Bond with Alanna.
>Question : Mr. Jordan, will we find out more about the Snakes
> and Foxes in future books?
>RobtJordan : Read and find out! ::stage direction: Phantom of the
> Opera: Laughter...
>RobtJordan : from offtstage::
Translation: "Yes. Of course. Idiot."
Granted, this is _my_ translation, but still.
>Question : Good evening Mr. Jordan. I was wondering if you were
> plaining on doing, or letting someone
>Question : do, a companion book for the Wheel of Time?
>RobtJordan : There is an illustrated guide to the world of the
> Wheel of Time in the works...
>RobtJordan : It is planned to have 64 color illustrations and
> 80,000 words or so of text...
>RobtJordan : and it will include a good bit of information that I
> did not intend to put ..
>RobtJordan : in the books. There will be a map of the entire world
> in the illustrated guide...
>RobtJordan : I don't have an estimated publication date at this
> time.
Oooh.
FAQ fodder.
>Question : On the discussion boards in the SF/F area, one of the
> hottest topics of debate is the
>Question : queston of who killed Asmodean. Can you shed any
> light on the subject?
>RobtJordan : Yes...
>RobtJordan : but I won't. ;) Read and find out!
Creep.
>Question : What happens to Birgitte if the Horn of Valere is
> sounded again?
>RobtJordan : Read and find out, my children, read and find out. :)
It's a subtle game, Robert.
You should know by now that the more subtle among us can wring
information even from that meagre phrase... if the question is right.
>RobtJordan : Anastin: An artist named Todd Hamilton is doing the
> work for the illustrated....
>RobtJordan : guide.
More FAQ fodder.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
http://cegt201.bradley.edu/~jsn/index.html
The Humblest Man on the Net
Bryon Wasserman
>Can someone please e-mail or post the CIS transcript. Thanx,
>Aaron
>--
Thanks, Aaron.
Bryon Wasserman
b...@mps.ohio-state.edu
Steven Cooper
[transcript of AOL session deleted. I have reformatted it to make it
easier to read, removed some of the extraneous material, and have
added my comments in square brackets after each answer]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: My question concerns the True Power. How is it distinguishable
from the One Power?
A: It's fairly self-evident from the book. What can be done with the
True Power is very similar to what can be done with the One Power.
Except that where the One Power is drawn from the True Source and is
the force that drives the Wheel of Time and powers the Universe, the
so-called True Power is drawn from the Dark One. There are limits in
the same ways there are limits to the One Power. It would be very long
if I went into it too much, but some of those limits and costs of
drawing on the Dark One are shown in CROWN OF SWORDS.
["so-called True Power"? Is that a hint?]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Can gateways be created at non-right angles to the ground? If not,
why not? If yes, why haven't we seen them?
A: They can be, and you haven't seen it because there's been no need
to do it. And also some of the people who can make gateways don't know
how to do it.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: How do you explain Liah being in Shadar Logoth for so long?
A: She became absorbed into the city. She was left there and she is,
after all, an Aiel, one of the people better at surviving under harsh
circumstances than anyone else in the world. And also her corruption
by Shadar Logoth gave her *some* protection.
[An important point answered -- in retrospect, it seems obvious that
Liah could not have survived just by being Aiel, but must have been
corrupted by SL in some way.]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Because the wheel of time contains the Dark One's prison, and the
ages repeat with each revolution, then isnt humanity itself also
imprisioned....unable to truly evolve?
A: No. :)
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Cuendillar grows stronger when the One Power is directed into it,
but can the One Power be drawn out of it, causing it to break?
A: Read and find out! :) That's something I may or may not use in a
future book, but it's information that I don't want you to have yet.
And that's the reason why I say "Read and find out" when I say it. :)
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Will we learn what happened to Jain Charin "Farstrider" after his
disappearance?
A: Possibly.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Just out of curiosity, do your predictions (Foretellings and Min's
Viewings ) have a well, Delphic quality by accident, or by choice ?
And did you ever think of writing a copy of The Prophecies of the
Dragon ?
A: There's very little in the books that's by accident -- very little
-- and no, I've never thought of writing out the complete Prophecies
of the Dragon. As already stated in a previous book, they would
comprise a volume of some 300 to 400 pages.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Mr Jordan, can you tell us why Tor is sending you on tour for the
Fallon series later this year, but not for A Crown of Swords?
A: Well, it was a very short time between handing in A CROWN OF SWORDS
and its publication, and in fact, they weren't really sure when I'd
finish so they couldn't make arrangements in advance. There's a
possibility that the Fallon tour may be extended to encompass some of
what we call CROWN OF SWORDS territory.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: My wife wonders why you left all the plot threads hanging at the
end of the CoS. Others have felt that CoS is more like the middle of
a book rather than a complete book by itself. Could you explain how
you pace and structure your books in the WoT?
A: Not inside the time we have for this interview! :) As with all of
the books, there are some plot elements hanging and some resolved. In
some, there are more plot elements tied up than others; some, fewer.
It just depends on how the story line is running in that particular
book.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: All of Min's viewing have come true except one... does this mean
she is no longer infallible?
A: No, it doesn't. And actually, that's not quite true, that all of
her viewings have come true but one.
[Interesting -- does this mean that Min was wrong? Has one of her
viewings seemed to be fulfilled when, in fact, it wasn't? I can't
think of anything that would fit this, off-hand.]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: What was the process through which cuendillar was made?
A: Entirely too complex for me to go into here. If there's anyone out
there who can channel on the level of a Forsaken I would be happy to
enter into a correspondence with them on the making of cuendillar. :)
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Since there are currently WOT card games and video games in the
works, what other mediums will we see in the future? Comic Books?
Films?
A: I really don't know. I just take it as it comes. There will be a
line of Wheel of Time fantasy clothing and jewelry. There's a company
that wants to make WOT weapons -- swords, etc. -- but nothing in the
way of games that I can discuss.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Can you clarify who can tell when one is using the True Power?
A: No one can tell if you're using the True Power -- except the Dark
One, of course.
[AHA! So now we know how to interpret that grammatically ambiguous
sentence on p.356 -- "The TP ... could neither be seen nor detected
except by *the one* who wielded it."]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: There is a mystery man who helps Rand in the last chapter of ACoS.
Is this a new character, or have we seen him elsewhere?
A: Well, we've certainly seen him earlier in CROWN OF SWORDS...
Otherwise, read and find out. :)
[AHA! So one of the myriad Moridin ?= watcher ?= SL guy theories must
be true, right? :-) ]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Considering that WoT is such a success, after you have finished
this series, can we look forward to anything more coming from this
world, past or future?
A: Not unless I think of something that I particularly want to write;
a story I very much want to tell. At the moment, I plan to do another
fantasy novel in another universe. I'm working on that already in the
back of my head and have been for a couple of years.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: What did Rand see in the sky in the alternate world in The Great
Hunt? (Shadowspawn don't use sho-wings, and Forsaken don't need
them.)
A: Read and find out. :)
[This refers to [TGH 15, Kinslayer, 235-6]: "There was one sign of
life; at least, Rand thought it must be so. Twice he saw a wispy
streak crawling across the sky like a line drawn with cloud. The
lines were too straight to be natural, it seemed, but he could not
imagine what might make them." Aircraft vapour trail, perhaps?]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Did your interaction with fans lead you to make certain things
previously hidden obvious in this book?
A: No, not interaction with fans. There are always things that are
going to become more obvious as the story goes along. I certainly
don't intend to keep everything hidden until the very last. There
won't be any Perry Mason revelation scene where all the characters sit
down and say, "This is what happened and this is why it happened." :)
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Will the next book take as long as Crown of Swords to be released?
A: Probably... I am due to deliver it in the fall of next year which
means it will come out probably in the spring of the year following
that. I decided writing the books more slowly was better than falling
over dead. :)
[DAMN! Not that I want RJ to fall over dead, but spring 1998 is a
bloody long way off... :-( ]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: How much longer do you anticipate the series will go on? I have
heard 10, but is anything definite yet?
A: It will be at least 10 books, yes. There will be some more books,
not too many, and please God, not so many as I've already written. I
am, in truth, writing as fast as I can. I want to maintain the pace
of the story until I reach the final scene, which has been in my head
since before I started writing THE EYE OF THE WORLD.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: First off, I'd like to say thanks Mr. Jordan for providing my
family and I countless hours of reading enjoyment, and I'd like to ask
you something about the Aiel, well, who are they?
A: You're welcome... And they are the descendants of the pacifists who
were in service to the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends. If, on the
other hand, you mean the source of the culture in my mind, they
contain some elements of the Apache, some of the Zulu, some of the
Bedouin, and some elements of my own -- including that I rather liked
the fact of making the desert dwellers blue-eyed and fair instead of
the usual dark-eyed, dark-complected desert people.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: According to several of AOL's members in our discussion forum, you
stated at a Balticon conference that Verin Sedai had never held the
Oath Rod, or had circumvented the Oaths. I was wondering if that was
true, and if so, has Cadsuane also done so?
A: No, I did *not* say that Verin had never held the Oath Rod.
Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod.
[A non-answer on the Verin question. Sigh.]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Mr. Jordan, how do you come up with names for characters in your
stories?
A: I have a huge list of names. Whenever I see an interesting name I
jot it down. I almost never use the name as it is, though. I change
it.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Was Mat right about the "snakelike" guy being a Gholam, and if so,
are we to assume that the bad guys are going to have as much trouble
stopping one as the good guys?
A: I guess he was right. Because after all, his source for the
information was Birgitte, who has some memories of the War of the
Power. And yes, if a gholam decided to turn against one of the
Forsaken, the Forsaken would certainly have as much difficulty in
stopping the attack as any other person would. They were, after all,
created for the sole purpose of assassinating Aes Sedai.
[This brings up an interesting point. How does one control a gholam?
What could you threaten it with, if it didn't do what you ordered?]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Which of the books is he most satisfied with?
A: I couldn't really say... I try to make each book better than the
preceding book and frankly, once I have written a book, I stop
thinking about it. My mind is focused on the next book, to the extent,
actually, that when I came back from turning in COS, though I intended
to take a short vacation, I found myself sitting at the computer and
working on the next book.
[Good, good. Don't stop now... :-) ]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Are any of the characters based on real people?
A: No, not really, except that all of the women have something of my
wife in them.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Robert, we're getting questions about cover art. Do you get to
choose the artist? The theme?
A: I choose the theme, and I give the cover artist a general idea of
the scene that I want. But then it's worked between him and the art
department in NY. I do have some input and I have managed to get a
few things changed to some degree. Rand, for instance, in the earlier
books, was shown as no more than 5-10 or 5-11, and he is about 6-5, in
my eyes...
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Rand recovered very quickly from his dual healing... is this
because of the way men heal or because of the warder bond... or both?
A: Partly the warder bond and partly the kind of healing that was used
on him... It should be obvious that Damer Flinn has discovered
the same method of Healing that Nynaeve uses... and of course, he
still is not completely Healed, remember.
[It sure wasn't obvious to me... I hope we get to find out how Flinn
discovered his method of Healing -- or who taught it to him. If it
was Taim or Dashiva, it must weaken the case for them being Forsaken
in disguise...]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: What is going to happen with Elayne, Min, Rand and Aviendha in
their relationship? Will they all get along?
A: "Read and find out!" he chuckled richly. ;)
[grrr...]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Mr. Jordan, will we find out more about the Snakes and Foxes in
future books?
A: Read and find out! <stage direction: Phantom of the Opera: Laughter
from offtstage>
[GRRR...]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Good evening Mr. Jordan. I was wondering if you were planning on
doing, or letting someone do, a companion book for the Wheel of Time?
A: There is an illustrated guide to the world of the Wheel of Time in
the works. It is planned to have 64 color illustrations and 80,000
words or so of text, and it will include a good bit of information
that I did not intend to put in the books. There will be a map of the
entire world in the illustrated guide. I don't have an estimated
publication date at this time.
[hopefully before Book 8, to help tide us over until the next WOT fix]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Does using the Oath Rod shorten one's lifespan?
A: Read and find out. :) You guys have to know by now that I like to
leave you hanging if I can!
[Surely this one's been answered now...]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: I was just wondering if you have read the FAQ compiled by many of
your fans. If so, how would you evaluate it's accuracy?
A: It's been about a year since someone's sent me a copy of the FAQ...
At that time, the proportions were running pretty much the same as the
early ones I'd seen: about a third are right, a third are almost
right, and the rest are blue sky. In fact, there have been some
arguments over things I'd thought I'd made clear. (Who knows what evil
lurks in the hearts of men? Bela knows!)
[I'm not even going to try and understand that last sentence...]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: On the discussion boards in the SF/F area, one of the hottest
topics of debate is the queston of who killed Asmodean. Can you shed
any light on the subject?
A: Yes... but I won't. ;) Read and find out!
[#%$@!#!!]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Is our earth a future or past turn of the wheel?
A: Both. The characters in the books are the source of many of
our myths and legends... and we are the source of many of theirs. You
can look two ways along a wheel.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: How do you explain the longevity of the Kin?
A: Read and find out! :) The clues are there.
[See the Oath Rod question above...]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: There's been some question about how the Aiel sustain their vast
numbers east and west ofthe Dragron wall. How can millions of Aiel
live on grubs in the Waste and why don't they scavenge the land clean
in Illian, Cairehen, and Caemlyn?
A: They can live in the same ways that the Bedouin manage to live in a
desert where you or I would die, and the Apache did so. They make very
efficient use of what they find. And if they stay in one place for too
long in too great a number they would indeed strip the land bare. But
there certainly aren't millions of them in Illian.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: What happens to Birgitte if the Horn of Valere is sounded again?
A: Read and find out, my children, read and find out. :)
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Have you ever thought of writing the Travels of Jain Farstrider?
A: No.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Any chance of producing a "what has happened already" update,
either in the next book or maybe as a seperate piece?
A: Well, let's see, it would probably take -- if I made it as short as
I could -- three volumes... I don't really think so. :) I'm afraid
you're just going to have to read the books. Sorry about that.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Mr. Jordan. were you rushed by publisher deadlines?
A: In a way. Not with the last book, certainly, but THE EYE OF THE
WORLD took 4 years to write. Each of the other books took 13 or 14
months but the publisher brought out the second book 10 months after
the first and the following books at 12-month intervals. You can see
there's a law of diminishing returns there. For this last book, I
simply told them I could not do it again. A CROWN OF SWORDS took
about 20 months to write, in fact. That's why the book didn't come
out last fall or earlier in the spring...
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: What did you think about those folks arguing with you about YOUR
characters?
A: Well, I'm sort of used to it. It's been going on for a long time
now.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: ADMIT IT!!!!!! DASHIVA IS OSAN'GAR111111
A: On the advice of my lawyer, I never admit anything. :) Not even to
my wife!
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: How old were you when you started writing?
A: MRHowley: I was 30 when I started writing. Maybe 29. I'd have to
sit down and figure it out. It was a while ago.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Mr. Jordan, any idea who will be doing the art for the companion
book?
A: An artist named Todd Hamilton is doing the work for the illustrated
guide.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Mr. Jordan? If I may? How did you develop the Language?
A: Sheriam: the words come partly from Gaelic, Russian, Arabic,
Chinese, Japanese... the grammar and syntax I believe I invented
myself, although it's possible that another language uses the same. Of
course, just as with English, I have deliberately put in some very
illogical inconsistencies.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Do you realize what you are putting us through with the time
between books?
A: You guys get to sit around with your feet up between books! :)
I bust my... hump writing them.
[Hah! Don't come looking for sympathy here... :-) At least they're
complex enough that we can spend the time between books in debating
all their finer points...]
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Is the Dark One the only source of the True Power?
A: Yes, the Dark One is the only source of the True Power.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: How difficult is it to get a major publisher like TOR to publish a
novel, Mr. Jordan?
A: It wasn't difficult to get Tor to publish my first novel. Tom
Doherty liked what I write. I've been writing for 20 years and I told
him that I had an idea for a multi-volume book... I didn't know how
many books, and probably any other publishers would have thrown me out
of his office, but Tom said OK!
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Mr Jordan, do you have any personal thoughts about people Role
Playing in the world you have given us?
A: I have a standard letter that I send to people when they ask for
permission to do role-playing, in which I grant them very limited
permission to do this. It says, in effect, that you have permission
to do it in this instance as long as you don't try to make a profit
off of it.
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Where can you get the poster of the map on the jacket cover?
A: There may be a very few copies left of the poster at the publisher
in NY. I don't know. I don't think they have any plans to sell it...
There were a certain number made to give away during my last tour.
Whether any remain is beyond me.
---------------------------------------------------------
Phew! All in all, a pretty informative session. Some of the answers
about COS stuff will be very helpful when I re-read it...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Cooper | "I'm entitled to my opinion!"
Sydney, Australia. | "It is your assumption that we are entitled
saco...@ozemail.com.au | to it as well that is irritating."
P.T. Korda
Steven Cooper <saco...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Aaron Bergman) wrote:
>so-called True Power is drawn from the Dark One. There are limits in
>the same ways there are limits to the One Power. It would be very long
[...]
>
>["so-called True Power"? Is that a hint?]
Well, certainly the Good Guys wouldn't call it the True Power. They'd
call it the Dark Power, or something like that. Likewise, the
"so-called Great Lord of the Dark" and the "so-called Chosen."
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Q: All of Min's viewing have come true except one... does this mean
>she is no longer infallible?
>A: No, it doesn't. And actually, that's not quite true, that all of
>her viewings have come true but one.
>[Interesting -- does this mean that Min was wrong? Has one of her
>viewings seemed to be fulfilled when, in fact, it wasn't? I can't
>think of anything that would fit this, off-hand.]
There are dozens of Min-viewings that have not come true, _yet_. For
example: Caralline D. and High Lord Darlin's Marriage, Logain's Glory,
Gawyn kneeling to Eg or breaking her neck, Elayne's severed hand,
Rand's funeral bier, Mat's eye on a balance scale, and whatever it was
she saw about Moiraine.
>A: No, I did *not* say that Verin had never held the Oath Rod.
>Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod.
>
>[A non-answer on the Verin question. Sigh.]
This is not a non-answer. This is kinda like the game of houses. What
RJ does not say, and how he says what he does, is just as important as
what he does say. First, note that he dodged the question of whether
Verin had found a way to get around or nullify some of the
Oaths. Secondly, he said Cads has *also* held the OR, implying that
Verin has held it. (That last bit is supported by OR --> Agelessness,
and Verin has the ageless look.)
>A: There is an illustrated guide to the world of the Wheel of Time in
>the works. It is planned to have 64 color illustrations and 80,000
[...]
>publication date at this time.
>
>[hopefully before Book 8, to help tide us over until the next WOT fix]
Current time, according to PNH is somethime in '97.
>arguments over things I'd thought I'd made clear. (Who knows what evil
>lurks in the hearts of men? Bela knows!)
>
>[I'm not even going to try and understand that last sentence...]
You haven't been around here long enough...
--pam
"You see me now a veteran of a thousand psychic wars..."
Brian Gibbons
In article <4r1v2p$b...@tribune.concentric.net>,
J...@cris.com (John S. Novak, III) wrote:
>In <abergman-280...@remote4-line7.cis.yale.edu>
aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Aaron Bergman) writes:
>>Question : There is a mystery man who helps Rand in the last
>> chapter of ACoS, my Question: Is this
>>Question : a new character, or have we seen him elsewhere.
>>RobtJordan : Well, we've certainly seen him earlier in CROWN OF
>> SWORDS...
>
>And this one.
>Pretty much indicates we're talking about Moridin.
OTOH, we three appearances of a mystery man in _ACOS_:
1. The watcher (in _Patterns within Patterns_)
2. Moridin
3. And the aforementioned mysery man in the last chapter
I'm still not sure that 1 & 2 are the same person (pretty convinced, but not
totally). If they were separate people, then 1 & 3 could be the same person.
--
Brian Gibbons | I don't think I'm alone when I say I'd like
br...@virginia.edu | to see more and more planets fall under the
| ruthless domination of our solar system.
Don HARLOW
Sok-Hyon Kang <gn...@andrew.cmu.edu> lastatempe skribis:
>At least we know that the claim by Troufazz that Verin has never held
>the Oath Rod was a load of bunk. Vindication!
Did Troufazz claim that Jordan said that Verin had never held the Oath
Rod, or did he just claim that she hadn't? If the first, then he was
obviously wrong; if the second, then he might (conceivably) still turn
out to be right. What Jordan said:
<<
OMNI Muse : BHeins1 asks:
Question : According to several of AOL's members in our
discussion forum, you stated at a Balticon
Question : conference that Verin Sedai had never held the Oath
Rod, or had circumvented the Oaths. I was
Question : wondering if that was true, and if so, has Cadsuane
also done so?
RobtJordan : No, I did *not* say that Verin had never held the
Oath Rod...
RobtJordan : Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod.
>>
In other words, he did _not_ say that Verin had never held the Oath
Rod, only that _he didn't say_ that she had. (Though one may suppose
that she has -- also from the "also" in the last line.)
And, interestingly, he didn't even address the parallel question of
whether she had found some way to circumvent the Three Oaths.
Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/
(English version available at http://www.webcom.com/~donh/dona.html)
Don HARLOW
J...@cris.com (John S. Novak, III) lastatempe skribis:
>In <abergman-280...@remote4-line7.cis.yale.edu> aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Aaron Bergman) writes:
>Stuff that looks particularly important to me:
>>Question : How do you explain Liah being in Shadar Logoth for so
>> long?
>>RobtJordan : She became absorbed into the city...
>>RobtJordan : She was left there and she is, after all, a Aiel, one
>> of the people...
>>RobtJordan : better at surviving under harsh circumstances than
>> anyone else...
>>RobtJordan : in the world. And also her corruption by Shadar
>> Logoth...
>>RobtJordan : gave her *some* protection.
>Hurm.
>So much for Liah's survival being part of Sammael's plan.
>I stand by the idea that Shadar Logoth was just a ploy for him to
>convince Rand he died. Moreover, it was a plan for him to convince
>all the other little Forsaken that he's dead. Won't Graendal be
>surprised...
Given that, because of Rand's preoccupation with Liah, nobody --
including the omnivident author -- actually saw Sammael get killed, it
may well be that if the battle in Shadar Logoth was such a ploy, it
failed -- _nobody_ will automatically assume that Sammael is dead,
just as nobody here does.
>>Question : All of Min's viewing have come true except one..
>> does this mean she is no longer
>>Question : infallible?
>>RobtJordan : No, it doesn't....
>>RobtJordan : And actually, that's not quite true, that all of her
>> viewings have come true but one.
>And I can sense the questions about this: I'm quite sure he means
>that Min has some other viewings which have not yet come true.
Very likely. Have that guard and novice (tSR) had kids yet? Not in the
time that has passed since then...
>>Question : There is a mystery man who helps Rand in the last
>> chapter of ACoS, my Question: Is this
>>Question : a new character, or have we seen him elsewhere.
>>RobtJordan : Well, we've certainly seen him earlier in CROWN OF
>> SWORDS...
>And this one.
>Pretty much indicates we're talking about Moridin.
Or Rand himself, or Sammael, or Reanne Corly, or ...
As usual, we saw an _awful lot_ of people earlier in aCoS.
Dylan Flynn Alexander
}Sok-Hyon Kang <gn...@andrew.cmu.edu> lastatempe skribis:
}
}>At least we know that the claim by Troufazz that Verin has never held
}>the Oath Rod was a load of bunk. Vindication!
}
}Did Troufazz claim that Jordan said that Verin had never held the Oath
}Rod, or did he just claim that she hadn't? If the first, then he was
}obviously wrong; if the second, then he might (conceivably) still turn
}out to be right.
He claimed that Jordan told his friend at Balticon that Verin had never
held the Oath Rod. Predictably, some rasfwrjians were rather skeptical
that anyone would get more than a RAFO on the subject.
P.T. Korda
In article <4r6c5a$p...@nntp1.best.com>,
Don HARLOW <d...@donh.vip.best.com> wrote:
>
>Did Troufazz claim that Jordan said that Verin had never held the Oath
>Rod, or did he just claim that she hadn't? If the first, then he was
>obviously wrong; if the second, then he might (conceivably) still turn
>
He claimed that RJ told his friend that Verin hadn't held the
OR. Needless to say, people didn't believe him, since it's been asked
numerous times, and only gotten an RAFO.
>And, interestingly, he didn't even address the parallel question of
>whether she had found some way to circumvent the Three Oaths.
As I said, the "Moiraine" sent me thing tells us that she most likely
HAS found a way around the First Oath. What this way is, though is a
matter of great debate. I could be anything from her being BA to her
thinking of some totally unrelated thing while talking ("Moiraine sent
me...out for pizza last weekend").
Sok-Hyon Kang
Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan: 30-Jun-96 Re:
Complete AOL Transcript by Don HAR...@donh.vip.best
>
> >At least we know that the claim by Troufazz that Verin has never held
> >the Oath Rod was a load of bunk. Vindication!
>
> Rod, or did he just claim that she hadn't? If the first, then he was
> obviously wrong; if the second, then he might (conceivably) still turn
> out to be right. What Jordan said
Oops, typo on my part. Choice A, please.
:>
> <<
> OMNI Muse : BHeins1 asks:
> Question : According to several of AOL's members in our
> discussion forum, you stated at a Balticon
> Question : conference that Verin Sedai had never held the Oath
> Rod, or had circumvented the Oaths. I was
> Question : wondering if that was true, and if so, has Cadsuane
> also done so?
> RobtJordan : No, I did *not* say that Verin had never held the
> Oath Rod...
> RobtJordan : Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod.
> >>
>
> In other words, he did _not_ say that Verin had never held the Oath
> Rod, only that _he didn't say_ that she had. (Though one may suppose
> that she has -- also from the "also" in the last line.)
>
> And, interestingly, he didn't even address the parallel question of
> whether she had found some way to circumvent the Three Oaths.
Yes. Hmmm. How irritating.
The Aes Sedai are probably patterned after RJ himself - he sure is a
sneaky little question-dodger.
Steven
Stephen E. Wilhelm
saco...@ozemail.com.au (Steven Cooper) wrote:
>Q: All of Min's viewing have come true except one... does this mean
>she is no longer infallible?
>A: No, it doesn't. And actually, that's not quite true, that all of
>her viewings have come true but one.
>[Interesting -- does this mean that Min was wrong? Has one of her
>viewings seemed to be fulfilled when, in fact, it wasn't? I can't
>think of anything that would fit this, off-hand.]
My interpretation is that not all of Min's viewings have come true
YET. For example, what about that viewing with Rand in a funeral pyre
with three women around him, that hasn't come true yet. The one about
Moraine hasn't come true yet. A lot of them hasn't happened yet, but
I am absolutely sure that they will.
Don HARLOW
Sok-Hyon Kang <gn...@andrew.cmu.edu> lastatempe skribis:
>The Aes Sedai are probably patterned after RJ himself - he sure is a
>sneaky little question-dodger.
I don't think anybody who's been following the series -- and Jordan --
would be surprised to find out that this was the case.
Bill Garrett
There are spoilers ahead.
} >I stand by the idea that Shadar Logoth was just a ploy for him to
} >convince Rand he died. Moreover, it was a plan for him to convince
} >all the other little Forsaken that he's dead. Won't Graendal be
} >surprised...
}
} Given that, because of Rand's preoccupation with Liah, nobody --
} including the omnivident author -- actually saw Sammael get killed, it
} may well be that if the battle in Shadar Logoth was such a ploy, it
} failed -- _nobody_ will automatically assume that Sammael is dead,
} just as nobody here does.
Rand was the only person who saw what happened, and he was fairly well
convinced that Sammael was dead. He'll tell everybody else, "Sammael
died. Mashadar killed him. I saw it." Who or what else are folks
going to believe?
Of course, if Rand says, "Duh, well, I turned my back on Sammael, and
when I looked again, he was gone," then people may legitimately subscribe
to the belief that Sammael is still alive. Rand's NOT going to say that,
though, because he really thinks Sammael is dead.
--
Bill Garrett - gar...@cs.unc.edu - http://www.cs.unc.edu/~garrett/
"There just aren't enough loonies to go around, so we dedicated loonies have
to rush around doing ALL the things normal people would never dream of doing."
Erica L. Sadun
In article <DttsB...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
P.T. Korda <ko...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
:In article <4r6c5a$p...@nntp1.best.com>,
:Don HARLOW <d...@donh.vip.best.com> wrote:
:>Did Troufazz claim that Jordan said that Verin had never held the Oath
:>Rod, or did he just claim that she hadn't? If the first, then he was
:>obviously wrong; if the second, then he might (conceivably) still turn
:He claimed that RJ told his friend that Verin hadn't held the
:OR. Needless to say, people didn't believe him, since it's been asked
:numerous times, and only gotten an RAFO.
In <4ka45d$2...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> trou...@ix.netcom.com(Jay
Morrison ) writes:
:
:This was a letter from a friend of mine who went to Balitcon. It has
:some very interesting Jordan facts.
:
:Date: 96-04-07 22:58:55 EDT
:From: Coramore
:To: Troufazz
:
:Jay...this is everything I have typed so far.....I'll get the rest
:soon.
:
:This is everything I can remember so far from Balticon....
:
:When RJ was asked if ACoS was done .. he said he had a couple more
:days(on 4/5/96) then he would be turning everything into TOR. He said
:that it was 6-7 weeks after he turned in LoC that it was on shelves.
:
:Asked about the strength of Callandor ... he said it was equivalent
to
:a nuclear strike.
:
:Asked how much more power does the Great sa'angreal allow over
:Callandor ...he said, there is no comparison. It is so much more
:powerful that it would be hard to imagine what it could be compared
to.
:
:Asked about the Sea Folk ... he said they will have a larger role in
:ACoS and their role will increase in each book as the series
continues.
:
:Asked by about Male v. Female in the series ... he said that 3000
years
:ago MEN(stressed this point emphatically) destroyed the world. MEN
did
:it, not women. Since then, women have had a more dominant role in
:ruling than men(especially Aes Sedai). But, not exclusively. Now,
:finally there is the Asha'man to challenge the Aes Sedai's power. [
:RJ seemed to get very upset by the questioning of the fan(I didn't
hear
:the questions) ] He then said that the characters are in a very
:different world(socially) from anything we know. That is the way he
:built the society in WoT.
: He then talked about some of the letters he's gotten and feedback
:from fans that accused him of creating a matriarchy (a female ruled or
:controlled society). He tried to explain that his world is very
:different. If he had crated a matriarchy, then the women would be the
:ones in the army etc. He said..... It doesn't matter who is in
control
:or command......as long as the fighting is being done with swords,
:spears, and bows... the sex with the most upper body strength will do
:the fighting.... i.e. Men. (obviously there are
exceptions.....maidens
:etc.)
:
:Asked will we find out who killed Asmodean in ACoS ..... he said Read
:and find out.
:
:RJ served two tours of duty in Vietnam and part of a third.....
:Asked "Were you trying to die?" ..... he said "I knew I couldn't
:die.[we laughed] I knew I couldn't die. I was young and had John
:Wayne-itis. I knew nothing could hurt me."
:
:Asked if there is a name for book 8 yet ...... he said..... "No.
:Something from the book will happen while I'm writing it and it'll hit
:me 'that's what the book should be named' "
:
:Here is an exchange between myself and Jordan.....you can read into
:whatever you want... ( I got the idea from a post on the Jordan
boards)
:
:Me: When we first met Aran'gar and Osen'gar in LoC and they couldn't
:channel...
:RJ: Yes
:Me: Were they in one of the stedding that fell to the Blight.
:RJ: No. [thought for a second] No. Have you taken a good look at the
:large Fade?
:Me: Yes, Shaidar Haran.
:RJ: Yes. He is very different from anything we have seen so far.
:Me: There is a theory going around that he is Ishmael reborn. (I
:pronounced it Ish-mail)
:RJ: [somewhat confused] Oh. Isham - I - elle.
:Me: Yes
:RJ: ::smiled non-committedly:: then he turned to the next person in
:line and began signing their books.
:
:Asked about ACoS....he said LoC was more than 1700 manuscript pages.
:ACoS will be just over 1000 manuscript pages. ACoS, from beginning to
:end, will only cover ten days.
:
:Asked "Will we get to see Elaida's reaction to Rand escaping and the
:events at Dumai's Wells?" .....he said "Yes, in fact her reaction is
:very important, and the reactions of other people to the news is very
:important, as well.
:
:Asked "Will we see Elyas(the original wolfbrother) again? .....he
said
:.. "Anything is possible" (It sounded more like a no than anything
:else, RJ is sneaky.)
:
:Asked "How does the Black Ajah recruit?" .....he said.... "Mostly by
:observation, but other things as well. We will see more of that in
:book 8. I have something planned for that."
:
:Asked if he was any closer to knowing how many books it will take to
:finish the series.... he said... No, he still doesn't know how many
it
:will take.
:
:Asked if we would see/learn more about the Tower of Ghenjii and the
:A/Eelfinn..... he said..... Read and find out.
:
:
:
:
:That's all for now, I'll post Tom's next e-mail when I get it.
:
:Troufazz / Jay Morrison
Lee Spires
In article <DttsB...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
ko...@midway.uchicago.edu (P.T. Korda) wrote:
>In article <4r6c5a$p...@nntp1.best.com>,
>Don HARLOW <d...@donh.vip.best.com> wrote:
>>
>
>>whether she had found some way to circumvent the Three Oaths.
>
>HAS found a way around the First Oath. What this way is, though is a
>matter of great debate. I could be anything from her being BA to her
How about this? The oath is (quoting from memory) "To speak no word which is
not true." This says nothing about a sequence of words which, when taken as a
whole, are not true. So if the Oath Rod enforces the oaths based on the
subjective belief of the oathbound, perhaps Verin has "convinced" herself to
interperet the oath literally. Therefore, she could say sentences which were
lies, so long as they were composed of true words.
So, when playing Scrabble with Verin, no need for a dictionary, just make her
say any word you doubt.
Make a device that even a fool can use
and only a fool will use it.
Lee Spires
spi...@one.net http://w3.one.net/~spires
John Novak
>How about this? The oath is (quoting from memory) "To speak no word which is
>not true." This says nothing about a sequence of words which, when taken as a
>whole, are not true.
Yes, but the problem is, anyone following this train of thought should
also be led to the inevitable conclusion that individual words, in and
of themselves, are neither true nor false. The word "Moiraine" in
"Moiraine sent me." Is that true or false? It is neither. Even the
words "No" or "Yes" have no truth value outside the context of a
question.
Therefore individual words cannot be spoken, therefore nothing can be
spoken. But this is foolish, of course, since the intent of the Oath
is not to enforce a vow of silence.
Further, it is foolish to think that an Aes Sedai could be asked, "Are
you an Aes Sedai" and respond, "No," to some other question.
Therefore, the Oath Rod-- and the Oath-- must implicitly deal with
truth and falsehood within some context. Anyone who could even come
up with the weaselly mind set to think of individual words out of
context should at some point need to think about the above, and
conclude that it won't work.
slight spoilers
See also the Aes Sedai discussion on the swearing fealty to Rand.
They agreed there was no wiggle room in the Oaths they swore. If
they could take things so far out of context as you suggest, no doubt
they could find the means to redefine fealty, or decide that they
spoke only individual words, not complete statements.
Jason Townsend
In article <4r6c5a$p...@nntp1.best.com>, d...@donh.vip.best.com says...
>>the Oath Rod was a load of bunk. Vindication!
>
>Rod, or did he just claim that she hadn't? If the first, then he was
>obviously wrong; if the second, then he might (conceivably) still turn
>out to be right. What Jordan said:
>
><<
>Question : According to several of AOL's members in our
> discussion forum, you stated at a Balticon
>Question : conference that Verin Sedai had never held the Oath
> Rod, or had circumvented the Oaths. I was
>Question : wondering if that was true, and if so, has Cadsuane
> also done so?
>RobtJordan : No, I did *not* say that Verin had never held the
> Oath Rod...
>RobtJordan : Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod.
>>>
>
>Rod, only that _he didn't say_ that she had. (Though one may suppose
>that she has -- also from the "also" in the last line.)
>
>whether she had found some way to circumvent the Three Oaths.
>
>http://www.webcom.com/~donh/
>(English version available at http://www.webcom.com/~donh/dona.html)
>
Don't forget, noone asks if she SAID anything while holding it...
Or what.
--
_____________________________________________________
The optimist proclaims that we live townsend@ra.
in the best of all times; isisnet.com
and the pessimist fears this is true.
- James Branch Cabell
-----------------------------------------------------
Sok-Hyon Kang
Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan: 1-Jul-96 Re:
Complete AOL Transcript by Lee Spi...@one.net
> ko...@midway.uchicago.edu (P.T. Korda) wrote:
> >In article <4r6c5a$p...@nntp1.best.com>,
> >Don HARLOW <d...@donh.vip.best.com> wrote:
> >
> >>whether she had found some way to circumvent the Three Oaths.
> >
> >HAS found a way around the First Oath. What this way is, though is a
> >matter of great debate. I could be anything from her being BA to her
>
which is > not true." This says nothing about a sequence of words
which, when taken as
> subjective belief of the oathbound, perhaps Verin has "convinced" herself to
> interperet the oath literally. Therefore, she could say sentences
which were > lies, so long as they were composed of true words.
> So, when playing Scrabble with Verin, no need for a dictionary, just
make her > say any word you doubt.
'True words?' What, exactly, are those?
Steven
Don HARLOW
gar...@cs.unc.edu (Bill Garrett) lastatempe skribis:
>d...@donh.vip.best.com (Don HARLOW) writes:
>} J...@cris.com (John S. Novak, III) lastatempe skribis:
>There are spoilers ahead.
>} >I stand by the idea that Shadar Logoth was just a ploy for him to
>} >convince Rand he died. Moreover, it was a plan for him to convince
>} >all the other little Forsaken that he's dead. Won't Graendal be
>} >surprised...
>}
>} Given that, because of Rand's preoccupation with Liah, nobody --
>} including the omnivident author -- actually saw Sammael get killed, it
>} may well be that if the battle in Shadar Logoth was such a ploy, it
>} failed -- _nobody_ will automatically assume that Sammael is dead,
>} just as nobody here does.
>Rand was the only person who saw what happened, and he was fairly well
>convinced that Sammael was dead. He'll tell everybody else, "Sammael
>died. Mashadar killed him. I saw it." Who or what else are folks
>going to believe?
Your point's a good one. My only response -- and it is a minor one --
is that Rand himself didn't seem totally convinced of Sammael's death.
Jordan essentially described him as trying to convince himself,
running over all the reasons logically why Sammael couldn't be alive,
emphasizing that he _had_ to be dead to himself. Obviously, Rand
himself has doubts. It remains to be seen whether he'll pass those on
or not.
Keith Higginson
Brian Gibbons (br...@virginia.edu) wrote:
: In article <4r1v2p$b...@tribune.concentric.net>,
: J...@cris.com (John S. Novak, III) wrote:
: >In <abergman-280...@remote4-line7.cis.yale.edu>
: aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Aaron Bergman) writes:
: >>Question : There is a mystery man who helps Rand in the last
: >>Question : a new character, or have we seen him elsewhere.
: >>RobtJordan : Well, we've certainly seen him earlier in CROWN OF
: >> SWORDS...
: >
: >And this one.
: >Pretty much indicates we're talking about Moridin.
I disagree. Also appearing in aCoS were:
1. LTT (as a voice)
2. Sammael (as a tall dark-haired man named Caddar)
3. Moridin (also tall and dark-haired, but with characteristic eye
color)
4. Graendal (does anyone really believe this one?)
I personally vote for 2, simply because the wanderer is intentionally
nondescript. If RJ would be willing to point out that the wanderer
was Moridin, then he probablly would have wrtiten another
characteristic tag (like blue eyes) for the benefit of the reader. I
can just seem him chuckling in mad glee because he's there, but it's
not immediately obvious who he is. He's cleverly misled us, but the
answer was in plain sight.
--
Keith (kei...@eng2.uconn.edu)
"Frozen in that fatal climb,
But the Wheels of Time...
Just pass you by."
Nathan Scott
Sok-Hyon Kang <gn...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan: 1-Jul-96 Re:
> Complete AOL Transcript by Lee Spi...@one.net
> > In article <DttsB...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> > ko...@midway.uchicago.edu (P.T. Korda) wrote:
> > >In article <4r6c5a$p...@nntp1.best.com>,
> > >Don HARLOW <d...@donh.vip.best.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>And, interestingly, he didn't even address the parallel question of
> > >>whether she had found some way to circumvent the Three Oaths.
> > >
> > >As I said, the "Moiraine" sent me thing tells us that she most likely
> > >HAS found a way around the First Oath. What this way is, though is a
> > >matter of great debate. I could be anything from her being BA to her
> >
> > How about this? The oath is (quoting from memory) "To speak no word
> > which is not true." This says nothing about a sequence of words
> > which, when taken as a whole, are not true.
> > interperet the oath literally. Therefore, she could say sentences
> > which were lies, so long as they were composed of true words.
> > So, when playing Scrabble with Verin, no need for a dictionary, just
> > make her say any word you doubt.
>
> 'True words?' What, exactly, are those?
>
> Steven
>
I think they're like...the word "car" is a real word, so it was true,
but the word "gillabaloo" isn't a real word, so it isn't true. So that
as long as every word she said was true (real) then she could say them.
Zach
Wow the complete Age of Legends transcript. No wonder it took Jordan so
long to release ACOS :-;
Zach.
Bill Garrett
}
}
}
}
}
}
}
}
}
}
}
}
}
}
} >Rand was the only person who saw what happened, and he was fairly well
} >convinced that Sammael was dead. He'll tell everybody else, "Sammael
} >died. Mashadar killed him. I saw it." Who or what else are folks
} >going to believe?
}
} Your point's a good one. My only response -- and it is a minor one --
} is that Rand himself didn't seem totally convinced of Sammael's death.
} Jordan essentially described him as trying to convince himself,
} running over all the reasons logically why Sammael couldn't be alive,
} emphasizing that he _had_ to be dead to himself. Obviously, Rand
} himself has doubts. It remains to be seen whether he'll pass those on
} or not.
Hmm. I didn't read it as Rand trying to convince himself, but I see
how one could interpret it that way. Rand was saying things like,
"Sammael is dead. I saw him." I thought that he was telling someone
else, but he could have been saying it as much to convince himself as
to convince anyone else. As you point out, the big question now is
whether or not Rand will think about what happened and realize that
Liah + the unexpected helper + not seeing Sammael disappear + a bunch
of other things, doesn't add up to what Rand currently thinks it does.
Leo Graham (SA)
Could someone please repost the transcript or E-mail me a copy. I
guess my newsreader got stuffed over the weekend and I missed it.
Don HARLOW
gar...@cs.unc.edu (Bill Garrett) lastatempe skribis:
>d...@donh.vip.best.com (Don HARLOW) writes:
>} gar...@cs.unc.edu (Bill Garrett) lastatempe skribis:
>}
>} >There are spoilers ahead.
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>} >Rand was the only person who saw what happened, and he was fairly well
>} >convinced that Sammael was dead. He'll tell everybody else, "Sammael
>} >died. Mashadar killed him. I saw it." Who or what else are folks
>} >going to believe?
>}
>} Your point's a good one. My only response -- and it is a minor one --
>} is that Rand himself didn't seem totally convinced of Sammael's death.
>} Jordan essentially described him as trying to convince himself,
>} running over all the reasons logically why Sammael couldn't be alive,
>} emphasizing that he _had_ to be dead to himself. Obviously, Rand
>} himself has doubts. It remains to be seen whether he'll pass those on
>} or not.
>Hmm. I didn't read it as Rand trying to convince himself, but I see
>how one could interpret it that way. Rand was saying things like,
>"Sammael is dead. I saw him." I thought that he was telling someone
>else, but he could have been saying it as much to convince himself as
>to convince anyone else. As you point out, the big question now is
>whether or not Rand will think about what happened and realize that
>Liah + the unexpected helper + not seeing Sammael disappear + a bunch
>of other things, doesn't add up to what Rand currently thinks it does.
Literal quote:
"Sammael had to be dead. He had to be. There had not been time for him
to run, no time to weave a gateway, and if he had, Rand would have
felt _saidin_ being worked. Sammael was dead, killed by an evil almost
as great as himself."
We shall see, eventually, even if Rand didn't...
Jamie Bowden
On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, Don HARLOW wrote:
> RobtJordan : No, I did *not* say that Verin had never held the
> Oath Rod...
> RobtJordan : Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod.
If this is a proper quote, then the 'also' points to only one
conclusion. Not that I personally ever doubted Verin's holding of the
Oath Rod.
Jamie
I have my finger on the pulse of the planet.
Jazza
In article <4rbij3$v...@orson.eng2.uconn.edu>, kei...@eng2.uconn.edu (Keith
Higginson) wrote:
But Rand would have felt Sammael channelling saidin. Sammael is able to
channel the TP, but is he stupid enough to? On the available evidence, he
isn't. That leaves Moridin as the main possibiIity, although it *might*
have been Lews Therin (unlikely, but possible).
Dan Arai
Warning! There do be spoilers here!
In article <jlaughli-040...@modem-130.mp.usyd.edu.au>,
Jazza <jlau...@extro.ucc.su.oz.au> wrote:
>In article <4rbij3$v...@orson.eng2.uconn.edu>, kei...@eng2.uconn.edu (Keith
>Higginson) wrote:
[Talking about the "mystery man" in Shadar Logoth at the end of
ACoS]
>> : >And this one.
>> : >Pretty much indicates we're talking about Moridin.
>>
>> I disagree. Also appearing in aCoS were:
>>
>> 1. LTT (as a voice)
>> 2. Sammael (as a tall dark-haired man named Caddar)
>> 3. Moridin (also tall and dark-haired, but with characteristic eye
>> color)
>> 4. Graendal (does anyone really believe this one?)
>>
>> I personally vote for 2, simply because the wanderer is intentionally
>> nondescript. If RJ would be willing to point out that the wanderer
>> was Moridin, then he probablly would have wrtiten another
>> characteristic tag (like blue eyes) for the benefit of the reader. I
>> can just seem him chuckling in mad glee because he's there, but it's
>> not immediately obvious who he is. He's cleverly misled us, but the
>> answer was in plain sight.
>
>But Rand would have felt Sammael channelling saidin. Sammael is able to
>channel the TP, but is he stupid enough to? On the available evidence, he
>isn't. That leaves Moridin as the main possibiIity, although it *might*
>have been Lews Therin (unlikely, but possible).
I believe that RJ has given us a tag. He states that the Wanderer
has a "deep voice," as does Moridin. (See the relevant sections,
I don't have the book at hand.) This, along with the other surface
similarities, leads me to believe that Moridin and the guy in Shadar
Logoth are the same.
We know that Moridin has been given watch over at least one of the
Forsaken (Moghedien), and probably over another important individual
as well (the second mindtrap.) He might even be looking after all
(or at least several) of the Forsaken. If you believe that he
is the Watcher, then he definitely is looking after lots of the
Forsaken.
The Watcher and the Wanderer both seem to be familiar with
Sammael (Watcher thinks that he has become strong in some of
the areas Sam. specializes in, and the Wanderer tells Rand
he can Rand can beat Sam. by thinking like him, and he has shown
that he can do that.) Seems pretty likely that they're the same
person, too.
Maybe I'm naive, but I had no doubts at all that the Watcher, the
Wanderer, and Moridin were the same person the first time I read
Crown of Swords. I'm not usually that observant, but I thought
it was supossed to be obvious they were the same person. Then
again, maybe Jordan wrote them like that to fool people like
me...
Dan.
Dan Arai | "If money disappeared, so would fear, anxiety
ar...@cs.stanford.edu | worry, toil, and sleepless nights."
dan...@leland.stanford.edu | Sir Thomas More, _Utopia_.
72567...@compuserve.com | I guess he never heard of college students.
Jason Townsend
In article <4rceqk$h...@nntp1.best.com>, d...@donh.vip.best.com says...
Everyone knows that when someone says "He has to be dead! He has to!" the
person always lives... it struck me as a wee bit of AIS on Rand's part
not to make more sure of it.
Laury or Marcel Parent
OK, Sammael was taken by Mashadar,
Laury or Marcel Parent
Jason Townsend wrote:
>
> In article <4rceqk$h...@nntp1.best.com>, d...@donh.vip.best.com says...
> >
> >gar...@cs.unc.edu (Bill Garrett) lastatempe skribis:
> >
> >>}
> >>}
> >Literal quote:
> >
> >"Sammael had to be dead. He had to be. There had not been time for him
> >to run, no time to weave a gateway, and if he had, Rand would have
> >felt _saidin_ being worked. Sammael was dead, killed by an evil almost
> >as great as himself."
> >
> >We shall see, eventually, even if Rand didn't...
>
> Everyone knows that when someone says "He has to be dead! He has to!" the
> person always lives... it struck me as a wee bit of AIS on Rand's part
> not to make more sure of it.
OK, 1)Sammael may have been taken by Mashadar, 2)Rand is convincing
himself that Sammael is dead, 3)Padan Fain is Mashadar, 4)Padan Fain may
or may not be new DO.
Now put together and stir for looney theory: Sammael is now a chosen for
Fain, or at least a non-DO shadowspawn. He's now Fain shadowspawn.
Super-loon: Fain drew Sammael's power. Fain can now channel.
Marcel
Keith Higginson
Jazza (jlau...@extro.ucc.su.oz.au) wrote:
: In article <4rbij3$v...@orson.eng2.uconn.edu>, kei...@eng2.uconn.edu (Keith
: Higginson) wrote:
[speculation about the "wanderer" who RJ said already had appeared in
the book]
: >
: > Also appearing in aCoS were:
: >
: > 1. LTT (as a voice)
: > 2. Sammael (as a tall dark-haired man named Caddar)
: > 3. Moridin (also tall and dark-haired, but with characteristic eye
: > color)
: > 4. Graendal (does anyone really believe this one?)
: >
: > I personally vote for 2
: But Rand would have felt Sammael channelling saidin. Sammael is able to
: channel the TP, but is he stupid enough to? On the available evidence, he
: isn't. That leaves Moridin as the main possibiIity, although it *might*
: have been Lews Therin (unlikely, but possible).
Several things just don't add up. The twin balefire streams seem to
indicate either that the BF was woven with the TP (which I don't
like), or that the BF was woven by Rand and the other person is only
an illusion to him.
Sammael as the wanderer is appealing. The description is consistent
with the disguise Sammael presented to the Aiel, and who is more
likely to be at that place at that time than Sammael? Sammael is
currently acting against his reputation and taking chances. He may
have used the TP. As for escaping, he may have used the TP or the
waygate. That the wanderer guides Rand to the place that Sammael can
escape without channeling is suspicious.
I also think that if the wanderer was Moridin, RJ would have made it
more apparent. He is inentionally mysterious and Moridin is the first
available conclusion to jump to. It's too easy to assume.
Dan Arai
There do be spoilers here...
In article <4rr1jm$k...@orson.eng2.uconn.edu>,
Keith Higginson <kei...@eng2.uconn.edu> wrote:
[we're talking about the Wanderer, the guy who helped Rand in
Shadar Logoth at the end of CoS]
>Sammael as the wanderer is appealing. The description is consistent
>with the disguise Sammael presented to the Aiel, and who is more
>likely to be at that place at that time than Sammael? Sammael is
>currently acting against his reputation and taking chances. He may
>have used the TP. As for escaping, he may have used the TP or the
>waygate. That the wanderer guides Rand to the place that Sammael can
>escape without channeling is suspicious.
>
>I also think that if the wanderer was Moridin, RJ would have made it
>more apparent. He is inentionally mysterious and Moridin is the first
>available conclusion to jump to. It's too easy to assume.
I don't buy the Wanderer being Sammael. Sure, Sam could have woven
a disguise and helped Rand out, but if the disguise were weaved
out of Saidin, Rand would have seen them. Therefore, his disguise
would have to be either Saidar or the True Power. I really doubt
that Sam had a female channeler, either Forsaken or Black Ajah, along
with him in Shadar Logoth. Things happened way too fast for that.
And would he pay the price of using the True Power for something
so trivial? I don't know, but somehow I doubt it.
Dan.
P.S. :
"That's a really trivial use of her dark powers." .5 points
(Not sure if that's an exact quote, but it's close enough to be
recognizable...)
Dan Arai | "If money disappeared, so would fear, anxiety
ar...@cs.stanford.edu | worry, toil, and sleepless nights."
http://www-students.cs. | Sir Thomas More, _Utopia_.
stanford.edu/~arai | I guess he never heard of college students.
Paul Khangure
In an Age long past, an Age yet to come, Dan Arai wrote:
: There do be spoilers here...
:
:
: [we're talking about the Wanderer, the guy who helped Rand in
: Shadar Logoth at the end of CoS]
: I don't buy the Wanderer being Sammael. Sure, Sam could have woven
: a disguise and helped Rand out, but if the disguise were weaved
: out of Saidin, Rand would have seen them. Therefore, his disguise
: would have to be either Saidar or the True Power. I really doubt
: that Sam had a female channeler, either Forsaken or Black Ajah, along
: with him in Shadar Logoth. Things happened way too fast for that.
: And would he pay the price of using the True Power for something
: so trivial? I don't know, but somehow I doubt it.
I have a two words answer to that quandry.
Inverted weaves.
I don't buy that the Wanderer was Sammael, but there is no reason why
Sammael could not have woven the Mask of Mirrors, and inverted it.
Paul "Moridin" Khangure
--
If you aren't living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
p...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au http://www.uwa.edu.au/student/prk/
It is unsporting to engage in a battle of wits against an unarmed opponent.
If you can lay on the floor without holding on then you're not drunk.
Chris Curry
In article <4rraei$t...@styx.uwa.edu.au> p...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Paul Khangure) writes:
>Path: magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.uwa.edu.au!tartarus.uwa.edu.au!not-for-mail
>From: p...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Paul Khangure)
>Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan
>Subject: Re: Complete AOL Transcript
>Date: 8 Jul 1996 15:45:22 GMT
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>NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au
>X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]
>In an Age long past, an Age yet to come, Dan Arai wrote:
>: There do be spoilers here...
>:
>
>:
>: [we're talking about the Wanderer, the guy who helped Rand in
>: Shadar Logoth at the end of CoS]
>:
>: I don't buy the Wanderer being Sammael. Sure, Sam could have woven
>: a disguise and helped Rand out, but if the disguise were weaved
>: out of Saidin, Rand would have seen them. Therefore, his disguise
>: would have to be either Saidar or the True Power. I really doubt
>: that Sam had a female channeler, either Forsaken or Black Ajah, along
>: with him in Shadar Logoth. Things happened way too fast for that.
>: And would he pay the price of using the True Power for something
>: so trivial? I don't know, but somehow I doubt it.
>I have a two words answer to that quandry.
>Inverted weaves.
>I don't buy that the Wanderer was Sammael, but there is no reason why
>Sammael could not have woven the Mask of Mirrors, and inverted it.
Well, that means he could have done it, but WHY...if Sam had been that close
to Rand without Rand realizing it wouldn't he have tried to kill him?!? I mean
that was the reason Sam had lured Rand to SL, or least that is what appears to
have been the reason. Also, the Wanderer's actions seemed to be mainly to HELP
Rand..I can see no reason that Sam would want to help the person he is trying
to kill.
Alana
(my name is not Chris Curry, he was the person who was using this particular
newsreader before me and the dang 'puter won't let me change the name. RRRG!)
Matthew Hunter
Welcome to spoilerspace for _A Crown of Swords_!
Spoilers coming!
Dan Arai (ar...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU) wrote in rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan on 8 Jul 1996 14:39:58 GMT:
> I don't buy the Wanderer being Sammael. Sure, Sam could have woven
> a disguise and helped Rand out, but if the disguise were weaved
> out of Saidin, Rand would have seen them. Therefore, his disguise
> would have to be either Saidar or the True Power. I really doubt
> that Sam had a female channeler, either Forsaken or Black Ajah, along
> with him in Shadar Logoth. Things happened way too fast for that.
> And would he pay the price of using the True Power for something
> so trivial? I don't know, but somehow I doubt it.
Some things for you to think about as you reconsider your easy
dismissal of this possibility:
1) Sammael could have inverted his weaves; Rand would not
-necessarily- have felt him channeling, especially if he did it when
Rand was distracted.
2) Graendal may well have been with Sammael... possibly even
disguised as Liah. It would suit her style, and Sammael would have no
qualms about sacrificing her.
3) Escaping Rand alive, with Rand thinking you are dead, is hardly
trivial for a Forsaken.
Dylan Flynn Alexander
In article <4rsbf3$s...@news1.pld.com>, cse...@nckcn.com (Jacob Sewell) wrote:
[the helper in Shadar Logoth couldn't have have been Sammy because Rand
didn't sense Saidin...whew!]
}ahem... "inverted weaves"
I don't buy this cop out. We've seen no weaves inverted that weren't
tied off. Also, every time a weave is inverted, it's _after_ it's
first woven. No one has shown an ability to invert a weave simultaneous
with the weave's creation.
Second, we have no evidence that it is possible to hide the fact you're
holding the Source. In fact, we have strong hints it's not possible. If
it was, every Forsaken would have it permanently hidden, yet the watcher
in ACOS knows when Sammy holds Saidin, Sammy knows when Graendal is holding
Saidar, and Rhavin knows when Sammael is holding Saidin at the beginnin
of TFOH.
Of course, you might have simply been talking about disguises, in which
case you're correct. It could have been Sammy, who used the TP to make
the balefire.
--
Dylan Flynn Alexander
dy...@tamu.edu
Jacob Sewell
Captain, a sensor scan reveals that ar...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Dan Arai)
wrote:
>There do be spoilers here...
>
>In article <4rr1jm$k...@orson.eng2.uconn.edu>,
>Keith Higginson <kei...@eng2.uconn.edu> wrote:
>[we're talking about the Wanderer, the guy who helped Rand in
>Shadar Logoth at the end of CoS]
>>Sammael as the wanderer is appealing. The description is consistent
>>with the disguise Sammael presented to the Aiel, and who is more
>>likely to be at that place at that time than Sammael? Sammael is
>>currently acting against his reputation and taking chances. He may
>>have used the TP. As for escaping, he may have used the TP or the
>>waygate. That the wanderer guides Rand to the place that Sammael can
>>escape without channeling is suspicious.
>>
>>I also think that if the wanderer was Moridin, RJ would have made it
>>more apparent. He is inentionally mysterious and Moridin is the first
>>available conclusion to jump to. It's too easy to assume.
>I don't buy the Wanderer being Sammael. Sure, Sam could have woven
>a disguise and helped Rand out, but if the disguise were weaved
>out of Saidin, Rand would have seen them. Therefore, his disguise
>would have to be either Saidar or the True Power. I really doubt
>that Sam had a female channeler, either Forsaken or Black Ajah, along
>with him in Shadar Logoth. Things happened way too fast for that.
>And would he pay the price of using the True Power for something
>so trivial? I don't know, but somehow I doubt it.
ahem... "inverted weaves"
HTH!
P.S. I don't think it was Sam either, btw.
--------------------------------------------------------
THE SUNSHINE FACTORY ONLINE! |"What the stranger didn't
cse...@nckcn.com | know, of course, was that
Sewell | Sam always kept a dobie in
R.R. 4 Box 113 | his boot." - Gary Larson
Beloit, KS 67420 ----------------------------
"The opinions expressed above are not necessarily yours,
unless you're really cool."
Matthew Hunter
Welcome to spoilerspace for _A Crown of Swords_!
Spoilers coming!
Dylan Flynn Alexander (dy...@tamu.edu) wrote in rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan on Mon, 08 Jul 1996 20:13:45 -1200:
> [the helper in Shadar Logoth couldn't have have been Sammy because Rand
> didn't sense Saidin...whew!]
>
> }ahem... "inverted weaves"
> I don't buy this cop out. We've seen no weaves inverted that weren't
> tied off. Also, every time a weave is inverted, it's _after_ it's
> first woven. No one has shown an ability to invert a weave simultaneous
> with the weave's creation.
You should be ashamed of yourself, Dylan. Twice. Both examples
you cite (the second one, below, of not being able to hide embracing
the source snipped) are clearly present during Alviarin's interview
with Mesanna -- cf aCoS Prologue.
Dylan Flynn Alexander
Um, I don't think so. I haven't read the ACOS Prologue since a full
month before the book came out, but I'm pretty sure Alviarin _did_
see the weave of Mesaana's gateway. Her disguise, we can presume,
was inverted and tied off.
You are correct that Mesaana apparently was able to hide the fact she
was holding the Source, but this begs the question of why Moggy and
Graendal never do this.
Paul Khangure
In an Age long past, an Age yet to come, Dylan Flynn Alexander wrote:
: In article <4rsbf3$s...@news1.pld.com>, cse...@nckcn.com (Jacob Sewell) wrote:
:
: [the helper in Shadar Logoth couldn't have have been Sammy because Rand
: didn't sense Saidin...whew!]
:
: }ahem... "inverted weaves"
: I don't buy this cop out. We've seen no weaves inverted that weren't
: first woven. No one has shown an ability to invert a weave simultaneous
: with the weave's creation.
: Of course, you might have simply been talking about disguises, in which
: case you're correct. It could have been Sammy, who used the TP to make
: the balefire.
That was what was initially being talked about. Someone said the Wanderer
couldn't have been Sammael, as Rand would have seen the Saidin disguise.
Several people replied that inverted weaves would make the disguise
undetectable. Jacob's paraphrasing dropped a crucial part of the scenario.
Anyway, I think that the Wanderer was Moridin, Sammael just stepped behind
a prewoven screen of invisibility, and Rand was played for a sucker.
Jacob Sewell
Captain, a sensor scan reveals that dy...@tamu.edu (Dylan Flynn
Alexander) wrote:
>In article <4rsbf3$s...@news1.pld.com>, cse...@nckcn.com (Jacob Sewell) wrote:
>
>[the helper in Shadar Logoth couldn't have have been Sammy because Rand
>didn't sense Saidin...whew!]
>}ahem... "inverted weaves"
>I don't buy this cop out. We've seen no weaves inverted that weren't
>tied off. Also, every time a weave is inverted, it's _after_ it's
>first woven. No one has shown an ability to invert a weave simultaneous
>with the weave's creation.
>Second, we have no evidence that it is possible to hide the fact you're
>holding the Source. In fact, we have strong hints it's not possible. If
>it was, every Forsaken would have it permanently hidden, yet the watcher
>in ACOS knows when Sammy holds Saidin, Sammy knows when Graendal is holding
>Saidar, and Rhavin knows when Sammael is holding Saidin at the beginnin
>of TFOH.
>Of course, you might have simply been talking about disguises, in which
>case you're correct. It could have been Sammy, who used the TP to make
>the balefire.
That is, in fact, what I meant. I know that whoever it was wasn't
holding Saidin (or Saidar, for that matter, unless Rand just didn't
notice the tingle). I was just responding to some guy who was saying
that the disguise couldn't have been saidin because Rand would have
seen the weaves.
Mr. Self Destruct
In article <4rraei$t...@styx.uwa.edu.au>,
Paul Khangure <p...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
Spoilers
>In an Age long past, an Age yet to come, Dan Arai wrote:
>: I don't buy the Wanderer being Sammael. Sure, Sam could have woven
>: a disguise and helped Rand out, but if the disguise were weaved
>: out of Saidin, Rand would have seen them. Therefore, his disguise
>: would have to be either Saidar or the True Power. I really doubt
>: that Sam had a female channeler, either Forsaken or Black Ajah, along
>: with him in Shadar Logoth. Things happened way too fast for that.
>: And would he pay the price of using the True Power for something
>: so trivial? I don't know, but somehow I doubt it.
>
>I have a two words answer to that quandry.
>
>Inverted weaves.
>
>I don't buy that the Wanderer was Sammael, but there is no reason why
>Sammael could not have woven the Mask of Mirrors, and inverted it.
Argh. I realized upon reflection that that was the answer. Ugh.
Clearly, the Forsaken can hide who they are from Rand. After all,
Asmodean did it for quite a while.
I guess what confused me is that Rand seems pretty confident that
he can recognize the Forsaken. Does he know something that we
don't, or is he just being overconfident again?
Dan.
Dan Arai | "If money disappeared, so would fear, anxiety
dan...@leland.stanford.edu | worry, toil, and sleepless nights."
http://www-cs-students. | Sir Thomas More, _Utopia_.
stanford.edu/~arai | I guess he never heard of college students.
--
Dan Arai | "If money disappeared, so would fear, anxiety
dan...@leland.stanford.edu | worry, toil, and sleepless nights."
http://www-cs-students. | Sir Thomas More, _Utopia_.
Paul Khangure
In an Age long past, an Age yet to come, Dan Arai wrote:
: Clearly, the Forsaken can hide who they are from Rand. After all,
: Asmodean did it for quite a while.
:
: I guess what confused me is that Rand seems pretty confident that
: he can recognize the Forsaken. Does he know something that we
: don't, or is he just being overconfident again?
Rand knows the Forsaken can disguise themselves, he warns Taim that one of
the Forsaken could well try to infiltrate.
(He knows of the disguise from Lanfear)
I think he judged, rightly, that Sammael would have no reason to disguise
himself in Illian. And also, he doesn't think any of the Forsaken would
help him, ala Wanderer style.
Otto Koppius
In article <dylan-09079...@ppp18-04.rns.tamu.edu>, dy...@tamu.edu (Dylan Flynn Alexander) says:
>
>In article <19960709.7...@iglou.com>, mhu...@iglou.com wrote:
>
>}Welcome to spoilerspace for _A Crown of Swords_!
>
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}
>}Spoilers coming!
>
>month before the book came out, but I'm pretty sure Alviarin _did_
>see the weave of Mesaana's gateway.
Yep. And besides, from what (or rather, the way) Mesaana's saying you
can conclude that she is teaching Alviarin how to make one.
>Her disguise, we can presume,
>was inverted and tied off.
>
>You are correct that Mesaana apparently was able to hide the fact she
>was holding the Source, but this begs the question of why Moggy and
>Graendal never do this.
Mesaana doesn't necessarily have to hide the fact that she's holding the
Source, since holding it is quite common under all sorts of circumstances
in the White Tower. There is a reference to this somewhere which I would
quote if I hadn't drunk forkroot tea :), but I think it's when one of the
Forsaken tries to figure out where Mesaana could be.
Otto
Keith Higginson
In article <4rr6ju$f...@Radon.Stanford.EDU>, ar...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU says...
>
>There do be spoilers here...
>
>
>
>In article <4rr1jm$k...@orson.eng2.uconn.edu>,
>Keith Higginson <kei...@eng2.uconn.edu> wrote:
>
>[we're talking about the Wanderer, the guy who helped Rand in
>Shadar Logoth at the end of CoS]
>
>>Sammael as the wanderer is appealing. The description is consistent
>>with the disguise Sammael presented to the Aiel
>
>a disguise and helped Rand out, but if the disguise were weaved
>out of Saidin, Rand would have seen them. Therefore, his disguise
>would have to be either Saidar or the True Power. I really doubt
>that Sam had a female channeler, either Forsaken or Black Ajah, along
>with him in Shadar Logoth. Things happened way too fast for that.
>And would he pay the price of using the True Power for something
>so trivial? I don't know, but somehow I doubt it.
Several characters have disguised themselves and inverted the weaves
in the presence of channelers (Moghedien in Salidar, Greandal before
the Wise Ones, possibly Demandred and Osan'gar before Rand). Sammael
could do this as well.
Sammael doesn't want to be consumed by Mashadar any more than Rand
does, and would be defending himself as well. I wouldn't call that
a trivial thing. I personally believe that he escaped through the
waygate.
>
--
1
Keith (kei...@eng2.uconn.edu)
Glenn M. Frazier
Spoliers!
Spoilers!
On Mon, 08-JUL-1996, Alana ( and NOT Chris Curry) wrote:
>In article <4rraei$t...@styx.uwa.edu.au> p...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Paul
Khangure) writes:
>>: [we're talking about the Wanderer, the guy who helped Rand in
>>: Shadar Logoth at the end of CoS]
>>:
>>: I don't buy the Wanderer being Sammael. Sure, Sam could have woven
>>: a disguise and helped Rand out, but if the disguise were weaved
>>: out of Saidin, Rand would have seen them. Therefore, his disguise
>>: would have to be either Saidar or the True Power. I really doubt
>>: that Sam had a female channeler, either Forsaken or Black Ajah, along
>>: with him in Shadar Logoth. Things happened way too fast for that.
>>: And would he pay the price of using the True Power for something
>>: so trivial? I don't know, but somehow I doubt it.
>
>>I have a two words answer to that quandry.
>
>>Inverted weaves.
>
>>I don't buy that the Wanderer was Sammael, but there is no reason why
>>Sammael could not have woven the Mask of Mirrors, and inverted it.
>
>Well, that means he could have done it, but WHY...if Sam had been that close
>to Rand without Rand realizing it wouldn't he have tried to kill him?!? I mean
>that was the reason Sam had lured Rand to SL, or least that is what appears to
>have been the reason. Also, the Wanderer's actions seemed to be mainly to HELP
>Rand..I can see no reason that Sam would want to help the person he is trying
>to kill.
Well, how about this:
Sammy doesn't want to PO the DO by killing Rand, but the heat Rand is
putting on him is too much. SO...he puts together a plan for when Rand
finally confronts him that will convince Rand that Sammy is dead and gone,
thus removing the heat. Of course, it wouldn't HURT if, somehow, by
pure bad luck, of course, Rand managed to accidentally, through no
fault of Sammy's, get killed by the Evil That Lurks And Glows at
Shadar Logoth....
--
Glenn M. Frazier gl...@refinery.com
Image Refinery Productions, Inc. http://www.refinery.com
283 Second Street Pike, Suite 130 Voice: +1 (215) 634 4590
Southampton, PA 18966 U.S.A. FAX: +1 (215) 634 4591
Dan Arai
In article <glenn-10079...@cheese.refinery.com>,
Glenn M. Frazier <gl...@refinery.com> wrote:
>Spoliers!
>
>Well, how about this:
>
>Sammy doesn't want to PO the DO by killing Rand, but the heat Rand is
>putting on him is too much. SO...he puts together a plan for when Rand
>finally confronts him that will convince Rand that Sammy is dead and gone,
>thus removing the heat. Of course, it wouldn't HURT if, somehow, by
>pure bad luck, of course, Rand managed to accidentally, through no
>fault of Sammy's, get killed by the Evil That Lurks And Glows at
>Shadar Logoth....
I definitely believe that Sammael would want Rand to think he's
dead. However, if Sam doesn't care if Rand lives, so long as he (Sam)
is not the one who kills him (Rand), why would Sam help Rand from
falling?
Besides, I'd still hate to be in Sammael's place if Mashadar had
killed Rand. I don't think that the Dark One would be too happy,
even if Sam didn't kill Rand directly.
Another thing to think about: We know that Rand was actually
trying to kill Sammael, and Sam probably expected this as well.
Would he be able to watch Rand closely enough to save him
from falling, while trying to be sure that he wasn't killed
himself? I mean, for all Sam knew, Rand might have balefired
the guy who just saved him. Would Sammael risk his life in
such a way?
Dan.
John C Mumaw
In article <glenn-10079...@cheese.refinery.com>,
Glenn M. Frazier <gl...@refinery.com> wrote:
>Spoliers!
>
>
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>Sammy doesn't want to PO the DO by killing Rand, but the heat Rand is
>putting on him is too much. SO...he puts together a plan for when Rand
>finally confronts him that will convince Rand that Sammy is dead and gone,
>thus removing the heat. Of course, it wouldn't HURT if, somehow, by
>pure bad luck, of course, Rand managed to accidentally, through no
>fault of Sammy's, get killed by the Evil That Lurks And Glows at
>Shadar Logoth....
>
bumper sticker I'd put on my car!
-john
--
John C. Mumaw jmu...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (614)292-6314
Ohio State University Libraries Columbus, Ohio
Glenn M. Frazier
dan...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dan Arai) wrote:
>Glenn M. Frazier <gl...@refinery.com> wrote:
>>Sammy doesn't want to PO the DO by killing Rand, but the heat Rand is
>>putting on him is too much. SO...he puts together a plan for when Rand
>>finally confronts him that will convince Rand that Sammy is dead and gone,
>>thus removing the heat. Of course, it wouldn't HURT if, somehow, by
>>pure bad luck, of course, Rand managed to accidentally, through no
>>fault of Sammy's, get killed by the Evil That Lurks And Glows at
>>Shadar Logoth....
>
>dead. However, if Sam doesn't care if Rand lives, so long as he (Sam)
>is not the one who kills him (Rand), why would Sam help Rand from
>falling?
>
>Besides, I'd still hate to be in Sammael's place if Mashadar had
>killed Rand. I don't think that the Dark One would be too happy,
>even if Sam didn't kill Rand directly.
I thought about that, but quite a few of the Forsaken have laid plans that
will possibly kill Rand, all of them thinking "*I* won't kill him, but I
could certainly benefit from anything *incidental* that may happen.
>Another thing to think about: We know that Rand was actually
>trying to kill Sammael, and Sam probably expected this as well.
>Would he be able to watch Rand closely enough to save him
>from falling, while trying to be sure that he wasn't killed
>himself? I mean, for all Sam knew, Rand might have balefired
>the guy who just saved him. Would Sammael risk his life in
>such a way?
Point well-taken. FWIW, I don't think it was Sam who saved him there
either. Personally, I'm a recent convert to the "It was Moridin" and
"It was Ishy" camps...though I'm not yet convinced that Moridin *is*
Ishy.
David DeLaney
gl...@refinery.com (Glenn M. Frazier) writes:
>Spoliers!
Spoliers?
Are they related to the Seanchan?
Dave "confused in Tennessee" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://enigma.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Ryan Reich
>Sammael could not have woven the Mask of Mirrors, and >inverted it.
That's 'Mirror of Mists'.
Glenn M. Frazier
In article <4sa5ug$n...@gaia.ns.utk.edu>,
d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:
>gl...@refinery.com (Glenn M. Frazier) writes:
>>Spoliers!
>
>Spoliers?
>
>Are they related to the Seanchan?
Er, no. Spoliers are those people employed by fancy French restaraunts to
turn their noses up at you when you mispronounce an item on the menu so
many times that you're reduced to simply holding up the menu and pointing.
Often mistaken for actual members of the server industry, many a fool has
been duped into thinking that they are actually there to serve you.
'grrrr...' E Bianco
In article <00001eaa...@msn.com>, Ryan Reich <Ryan...@msn.com> wrote:
>>Sammael could not have woven the Mask of Mirrors, and >inverted it.
>
>That's 'Mirror of Mists'.
Yes.
And Ryan? Why couldn't Sammael invert his weave?
Revenant
mcau...@u.washington.edu ('grrrr...' E Bianco) wrote:
>In article <00001eaa...@msn.com>, Ryan Reich <Ryan...@msn.com> wrote:
>>>Sammael could not have woven the Mask of Mirrors, and >inverted it.
>>
>>That's 'Mirror of Mists'.
>Yes.
No.
Read pg. 356 of aCoS.
Mirror of Mists makes you look larger. Mask of Mirrors is a disguise.
-Bret C. Rediker (http://www.realtime.net/~revenant/sherlock.html)
"It is a question of cubic capacity. A man with
so large a brain must have something in it." (BLUE)
'grrrr...' E Bianco
In article <4suc3l$e...@news3.realtime.net>, Revenant <reve...@bga.com> wrote:
>mcau...@u.washington.edu ('grrrr...' E Bianco) wrote:
>
>>In article <00001eaa...@msn.com>, Ryan Reich <Ryan...@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>Sammael could not have woven the Mask of Mirrors, and >inverted it.
>>>
>>>That's 'Mirror of Mists'.
>
>>Yes.
>
>No.
>
>Read pg. 356 of aCoS.
>
>Mirror of Mists makes you look larger. Mask of Mirrors is a disguise.
Mmph!
Well.
Asmodean also called it Illusion.
As far as I'm concerned, we now have _three_ names for substantially the
same thing.
I.e. changing you appearance.
Harumph!
----------------------------------
Grrrr............
David DeLaney
"Bret C. Rediker" <reve...@bga.com> writes:
>Mirror of Mists makes you look larger. Mask of Mirrors is a disguise.
Threadshift: Is anyone keeping up the List of Sword Forms? If so did they
update it for aCoS? Ditto for the List of Animals That Live In Randland...
Dave "not keeping track of which crown and throne goes with which nation
any more 'cuz Rand's gonna rule them all anyway" DeLaney